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  • Kayos
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1195

    • March 31, 2016, 07:13:57 pm
    • NZ
Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #80 on: August 20, 2018, 12:32:09 pm »
Quote
200,000 years of evolution and suddenly, raising kids is too mainstream? So, to answer your question, nope.

Morales don't come into this, it purely comes down to what makes you happy or what you think will make you happy.
People are deciding not to have children because they think they'll be happier with less responsibility, not because they're trying to be edgy or piss off society.

For 200,000 years of evolution or so, we've believed in a higher being/after life etc.which must have imparted a stronger sense of purpose on having kids. I'm not saying people are trying to be edgy or piss off society, just that there is now lacking a sense of duty connected to the spiritual community we all used to belong to in the West.

I get you and I'm with Freud on this one. Freud believed that all intrinsic human instinct fell into 2 categories, the Eros (life drive) or Thanatos death drive. We're all born with these drives, they're independent of morals.
Thanks to globalization, traditional values and norms of western civilization have a lot more to compete with, people have become increasingly exposed to multiple lifestyles and the blending of cultures has influenced this too.

Ultimately, no matter how many alternate lifestyles people explore, the life drive will always be there  and humans will ALWAYS desire to sire children.

I have no desire to sire children. :P I know a couple others that think this way as well. :p


Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #81 on: August 21, 2018, 04:17:50 pm »
I knew from a young age (like an early teenager) that I never wanted to be a father. No idea what really caused me to feel that way, but I guess it's as close to an instinct as these things can get. When I was at university, some of friends thought I was trying to be contrarian or edgy by saying I didn't want kids. There was a brief period in my mid-twenties when people around me started having babies, and I thought it might eventually "just happen", and I'd probably go along with it. My wife has never really wanted them either, but also questioned herself a lot due to social expectations and indirect pressure from friends. We're now in our late 30s and I very much doubt it's going to happen, so we've managed to hold out.

I've read quite a bit on the topic, which is useful when you need reassurance. I don't think it's wise to subordinate your own feelings to other people's opinions, but the rest of society has a way of making you feel like you're cheating it if you don't want children (see Elon Musk on demographics...), so an alternative perspective is sometimes necessary.

‘Selfish, Shallow, and Self-Absorbed: Sixteen Writers on the Decision Not to Have Kids’ is a great place to start.

'Childfree and Loving It' by Niki DeFago is annoying and genuinely quite shallow, saved only by the letters from more thoughtful and less smug childfree couples that she includes in the book.

Corinne Maier's 'No Kids - 40 Good Reasons Not to Have Children' is great, too.

And for trip to the philosophical dark side, these anti-natalist books are pretty essential.

'The Conspiracy Against the Human Race' by Thomas Ligotti

'Confessions of an Anti-Natalist' by Jim Crawford

'Better to Have Never Been' by David Benatar




Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #82 on: August 22, 2018, 08:18:07 am »
Corinne Maier on 40 reasons not to have kids. What depressing shyte. (notice she is a hypocrite because SHE ACTUALLY HAS KIDS) Women should stop having kids to concentrate on their careers. Stack gold and grow old. Wow how fulfilling.

And one of her reasons - having kids leads to less interest in the bedroom. THat is just a normal consequence of aging.





Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #83 on: August 22, 2018, 08:29:57 am »
Have you actually read the book? It's laden with sarcasm, often very funny, and she's not afraid to admit her own inconsistencies / double standards. She writes as a normal, emotionally complex human being, not a rigid ideologue.

Quote
Having two children, I cannot tell others: "Don't do as I did." Yet I also find it hypocritical to hide behind the smokescreen of idealism ("There's nothing more beautiful than a child's smile") to justify my questionable life choices. I am a fierce opponent of brainwashing and of pathos. It's time to stop marketing the babies-spell-happiness idea...

Children, welcome and good luck to you as you make your way in this rotten world that your parents, who love you very very much, have left you. They spent so much time looking after you that they didn't have time to transform it. They gave up, quit, hung up their hats. "The child is what's most important..." You'll forgive us, won't you?

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-37992503


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3179

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #84 on: August 25, 2018, 03:28:32 pm »
When I ask Yun-hwa how men see women in South Korea, she has a one-word answer: "Slave."

It's clear to see how this feeds into South Korea's baby shortage. The marriage rate in South Korea is at its lowest since records began - 5.5 per 1,000 people.

https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-45201725

Speak to South Koreans from older generations about the low fertility rate and the contrast in attitude is sharp. They see people like Yun-hwa as too individualistic and selfish.

I start chatting to two women in their 60s enjoying the stream-side park that runs through central Seoul. One tells me she has three daughters in their 40s, but none has had children.

"I try to instil patriotism and duty to the country with the kids, and of course I would love to see them continuing the line," she says. "But their decision is not to do that."

"There should be that sense of duty to the country," her friend chips in. "We're very worried about the low fertility rate here."


Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #85 on: August 25, 2018, 04:33:43 pm »
I posted that bbc article earlier in the thread. It’s clear to see where Korea is heading demographically and they’ll need to take some urgent action.

I was reading a thread on an Irish forum about a homeless mother forced to sleep with her kids at a police station. There was very little sympathy for her. They were asking questions such as “where are the fathers?” And “why does not she practice birth control?” Many had already written off the children as being unlikely to be contributors to society.

Here is the article that inspired such views below
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mammy-what-are-we-going-to-do-mother-tells-of-heartbreak-after-six-kids-sleep-in-garda-station-861042.html



Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #86 on: August 25, 2018, 04:47:00 pm »
Just read the BBC article. Yun-hwa sounds awesome. Good for her.

How anyone can observe the behavior of Korean kids and think "I want some of that in MY house, especially after work and on the weekends!" will forever be a mystery to me.


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3179

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #87 on: August 25, 2018, 05:50:07 pm »
A lot Korean kids are well behaved, especially the females.


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3179

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #88 on: August 25, 2018, 05:56:22 pm »
Many had already written off the children as being unlikely to be contributors to society.

I think you should marry her, Thomas. Help raise her kids to be productive members of society.


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3179

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #89 on: August 25, 2018, 05:57:40 pm »


Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #90 on: August 25, 2018, 06:22:03 pm »
Quote
Just read the BBC article. Yun-hwa sounds awesome. Good for her.

She sounds a bit silly and immature to me. Writing off the whole male sex in her country as being unworthy of her, at the grand old age of 24. No chance of finding a partner who isn't like all the rest? As people get older they tend to realise that other people are, or should be, the most important things in their life.

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When I ask Yun-hwa how men see women in South Korea, she has a one-word answer: "Slave."

Funny, but the common narrative for Western guys marrying Asian women these days is always the opposite - they think they're getting a slave but they end up with a ball breaker. Maybe they're not doing it right the way Korean men are.

Also double standards apply as usual - If a 24 year old Korean male was interviewed saying he's not interested in getting married because all Korean women are infantile and obsessed with money and plastic surgery, would you also be saying he was awesome and 'good for him'?   I don't think so somehow, you'd probably be accusing him of being an alt right basement-dwelling INCEL.

Quote
How anyone can observe the behavior of Korean kids and think "I want some of that in MY house, especially after work and on the weekends!" will forever be a mystery to me.

Nobody wants other people's kids in their house. They want their own kids who they'll bring up perfectly and even if they don't they'll still love them more than anything else in the world.

« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 07:58:37 pm by eggieguffer »


Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #91 on: August 25, 2018, 06:53:47 pm »
Quote
They were asking questions such as “where are the fathers?” And “why does not she practice birth control?”

Did they ask why she named one of her sons Johnny when her surname is Cash? That's a form of child abuse.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 06:55:51 pm by eggieguffer »


  • Kolao
  • Veteran

    • 201

    • July 04, 2017, 05:11:57 pm
    • South of Snow
Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #92 on: August 25, 2018, 08:59:53 pm »
Quote
They were asking questions such as “where are the fathers?” And “why does not she practice birth control?”

Did they ask why she named one of her sons Johnny when her surname is Cash? That's a form of child abuse.

Johnny Cash. Isn't that another name for a pay toilet?
When the wicked are confounded, and consigned to flames of woe, call me.


Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #93 on: August 25, 2018, 10:28:01 pm »
A lot Korean kids are well behaved, especially the females.

True. Hopefully more of them will turn out like Yun-hwa and refuse to perpetuate the cruel bullshit that generations of Korean women have had to suffer. Good luck to them.


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3179

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #94 on: August 26, 2018, 02:37:48 am »
Why not make a baby Yun-hwa? She'd be a joy to be around after work and on weekends.  :azn:


Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #95 on: August 26, 2018, 04:16:32 am »
A lot Korean kids are well behaved, especially the females.

True. Hopefully more of them will turn out like Yun-hwa and refuse to perpetuate the cruel bullshit that generations of Korean women have had to suffer. Good luck to them.

Yes the cruel bullshit that enabled her to draw pretty pictures at university for 4 years paid for by her Dad working 12 hour days at some Chaebol, no doubt.


  • Cyanea
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1011

    • September 04, 2016, 01:48:24 pm
    • Las Vegas
Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #96 on: September 07, 2018, 05:36:57 am »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LA5xhXk_4U


I for one am happy that population is shrinking. Korea is too overcrowded.


The Korean housing market, stock market and consumer spending will crash soon.


Take that into account when investing.
Catch my drift?


« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 10:25:37 am by AvecPommesFrites »
Who is here in 2019?


Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #98 on: September 07, 2018, 10:37:27 am »
Cyanea Crowded cities mean plenty of hagwons and public schools offering loads of jobs for foreigners. Empty cities devoid of children mean no jobs for teachers. It is that simple.

Are you retiring in Korea? I have no idea why someone would be in bliss in their old age, jobless thinking "it is wonderful I can use the subway and get seats"  They'd have no way of supporting themselves.

In fact if it weren't for the jobs most waygooks would be out of Korea.


  • Cyanea
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1011

    • September 04, 2016, 01:48:24 pm
    • Las Vegas
Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #99 on: September 07, 2018, 11:11:12 am »
Empty cities devoid of children mean no jobs for teachers. .

..surely if youare fluent in korean you could work in something other than esl?

Quote from: lifeimprovement
The marriage rate in South Korea is at its lowest since records began - 5.5 per 1,000 people.

Why would anybody want a typical Korean wedding? mind-bogglingly expensive, tacky and garuanteed to leave you in debt for years. Its a scam.

Westerners nowadays pump out kids without getting formally married. Koreans though still think "if i can't afford the W100M for the marriage ceremony complete with stale overpriced food nobody wants to eat and insane dowry costs, then I'll have to accept to be unmarried which means I'll never have kids.


They don't get it: marriage is about the relationship and life between two people, not about the brief ceremony and impressing the in-laws with huge gifts. But because Koreans are so obsessed with status and money, they are increasingly unable to marry and reproduce.

« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 11:23:47 am by Cyanea »
Catch my drift?