Read 9098 times

  • Kolao
  • Veteran

    • 201

    • July 04, 2017, 05:11:57 pm
    • South of Snow
Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #60 on: August 17, 2018, 06:08:46 pm »
Well Kolao I thought you said you were a good uncle? You don't care about what happens to the planet after you are gone?

OK. Then lets exploit every resource in the planet. Lets release massive amounts of pollution. Lets drive animals extinct because we can make a few bob selling their body parts for Chinese medicine.

Interesting this could be another consequence of remaining childless. You don't have a stake in the future so you simply don't care about it.

Annnnnd once again it would appear critical reading skills have gone by the wayside.

Query: How can one care about anything where you are dead?

I await with breathless anticipation your learned response.

Your use of the present tense confused things. - 'I am perfectly fine with this.' if you'd said 'I will be fine with the world ending' and nobody else will care about it after they're dead', it would have been clearer.

No it wouldn't have. It was crystal clear. Nonetheless, one second after I draw my last breath let there be a global race to see who pushes the button faster. There's only one problem with this planet - humans. We are an infestation that should be eradicated. Let the plants and animals take over. Maybe sometime long in the future, an intelligent race of aliens will drop by and live here in peace and harmony.
When the wicked are confounded, and consigned to flames of woe, call me.


Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #61 on: August 18, 2018, 07:25:53 am »
Well Kolao I thought you said you were a good uncle? You don't care about what happens to the planet after you are gone?

OK. Then lets exploit every resource in the planet. Lets release massive amounts of pollution. Lets drive animals extinct because we can make a few bob selling their body parts for Chinese medicine.

Interesting this could be another consequence of remaining childless. You don't have a stake in the future so you simply don't care about it.

Annnnnd once again it would appear critical reading skills have gone by the wayside.

Query: How can one care about anything where you are dead?

I await with breathless anticipation your learned response.

Your use of the present tense confused things. - 'I am perfectly fine with this.' if you'd said 'I will be fine with the world ending' and nobody else will care about it after they're dead', it would have been clearer.

No it wouldn't have. It was crystal clear. Nonetheless, one second after I draw my last breath let there be a global race to see who pushes the button faster. There's only one problem with this planet - humans. We are an infestation that should be eradicated. Let the plants and animals take over. Maybe sometime long in the future, an intelligent race of aliens will drop by and live here in peace and harmony.

You know communication is a two way thing. If two people who share the same language misunderstand your message it could be that there's a problem with the message. Just saying.


Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #62 on: August 18, 2018, 09:38:49 am »
https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-45201725

Quote
The Korean Institute of Criminology published the results of a survey last year in which 80% of men questioned admitted to having been abusive towards romantic partners.

80% admitted it, therefore the figure is probably higher....scary!

Quote
The average South Korean man spends 45 minutes a day on unpaid work like childcare, according to figures from the OECD, while women spend five times that.

WOW!  Why would you want to make a rod for your own back with support like this!

Quote
When I put it to her that if she and her contemporaries don't have children her country's culture will die, she tells me that it's time for the male-dominated culture to go.

"Must die," she says, breaking into English. "Must die!"

Viva la revolucion!

The worse it gets, the more benefits the government will throw at the problem.  At the moment, i have been told, that if you have 3 kids, the state will pay for (at least) university education for all.  I'm not sure if that is only in Korea, or will extend to overseas education.

Quote
It's clear to see how this feeds into South Korea's baby shortage. The marriage rate in South Korea is at its lowest since records began - 5.5 per 1,000 people, compared with 9.2 in 1970 - and very few children are born outside marriage.

Only Singapore, Hong Kong and Moldova have a fertility rate (the number of children per woman) as low as South Korea's. All are on 1.2, according to World Bank figures, while the replacement rate - the number needed for a population to remain level - is 2.1.

The marriage rate between foreigners and Koreans is higher than 5.5 per 1,000, and their birthrate also seems to be higher.  Ironic that the old way, the old pride in "pure blood" culture is killing the country.  Maybe this could be the catalyst for re-unification?  After all, they may be commies, but they have pure Korean blood!

Does someone want to tell the old folks who hate foreigners that their country could die without us?  Cream is the new yellow!


Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #63 on: August 18, 2018, 10:19:54 am »
Quote
The average South Korean man spends 45 minutes a day on unpaid work like childcare, according to figures from the OECD, while women spend five times that.

WOW!  Why would you want to make a rod for your own back with support like this!

My wife goes on a forum for Korean housewives with kids and she told me one woman was complaining about having to take all the recycling stuff down with little kids to look after. When the other housewives suggested she get her husband to do it she replied that he works so hard she only sees him around once a month.  :huh:


Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #64 on: August 18, 2018, 10:25:26 am »
Quote
The average South Korean man spends 45 minutes a day on unpaid work like childcare, according to figures from the OECD, while women spend five times that.

WOW!  Why would you want to make a rod for your own back with support like this!

My wife goes on a forum for Korean housewives with kids and she told me one woman was complaining about having to take all the recycling stuff down with little kids to look after. When the other housewives suggested she get her husband to do it she replied that he works so hard she only sees him around once a month.  :huh:

Ah, the old Korea adage that long time = hard work.  63% productivity = 37%* time wasted

* https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/korea/labour-productivity-growth

If Koreans could only see that less bullshit at work = better life outside work.  If more bosses forewent the need for ego massaging and victimising of underlings, all would be happier.  More productivity = husband can help more at home.


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3179

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #65 on: August 18, 2018, 01:05:08 pm »
It's common for the husband to work 12 hours a day while the wife doesn't have a job, even part time. Seems strange. Also, I've met a lot of women in their 20s not working at all while while being supported by their parents. Maybe they're studying to prepare for a big test/certification?


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3179

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #66 on: August 18, 2018, 05:28:51 pm »
I actually know more married couples that don't have or want children than those who do, so it's definitely a trend.

Might be more common among expats? (And/or Koreans you mean? They're outliers.)

Quote
"The 5% of American adults who do not want children is virtually the same as the 4% found in 1990."

https://news.gallup.com/poll/164618/desire-children-norm.aspx


Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #67 on: August 18, 2018, 07:10:00 pm »
I actually know more married couples that don't have or want children than those who do, so it's definitely a trend.

Might be more common among expats? (And/or Koreans you mean? They're outliers.)

Quote
"The 5% of American adults who do not want children is virtually the same as the 4% found in 1990."

https://news.gallup.com/poll/164618/desire-children-norm.aspx

Don't know any American couples. I think the no children trend is more widespread in Europe. Among the middle classes that is. The underclass in the UK is still spawning like mad.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 07:12:01 pm by eggieguffer »


Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #68 on: August 19, 2018, 11:36:55 am »
You can call them underclasses or chavs or whatever but they are actually the only ones keeping the Anglosaxon genetics going.

Yeah. I guess the future doesn’t look too bright.


Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #69 on: August 20, 2018, 07:20:59 am »
You can call them underclasses or chavs or whatever but they are actually the only ones keeping the Anglosaxon genetics going.

Yeah. I guess the future doesn’t look too bright.

I'm just curious... does anyone really care about keeping "the Anglosaxon genetics" going? Put differently, does anyone still care about keeping races pure? More specifically... in 2018 are there still people who will openly admit that they want to keep white bloodlines pure? Are those people out there?


Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #70 on: August 20, 2018, 08:37:30 am »
Sure there are. Just as there are there Japanese wanting to keep Japan Japanese. Koreans wanting to keep Korea Korean etc, etc.



  • oglop
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1850

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #71 on: August 20, 2018, 09:35:22 am »
You can call them underclasses or chavs or whatever but they are actually the only ones keeping the Anglosaxon genetics going.

Yeah. I guess the future doesn’t look too bright.

I'm just curious... does anyone really care about keeping "the Anglosaxon genetics" going? Put differently, does anyone still care about keeping races pure? More specifically... in 2018 are there still people who will openly admit that they want to keep white bloodlines pure? Are those people out there?
of course there are. just look as far as Britain First facebook page


  • Aristocrat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1549

    • November 10, 2014, 01:04:27 pm
Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #72 on: August 20, 2018, 09:49:24 am »
I'm not prepared to follow the tangent this thread is going on, so I'll just focus on OP's question (I'm miserable that my principal decided to open school LAST THURSDAY, while my wife has her first day THIS WEDNESDAY... nearly a week difference between public school opening dates <sigh> Korea).

I don't care how special or unique you think you are, as a whole, humans want to procreate and that'll never change. So, whether I think it's irresponsible or not to remain childless becomes totally irrelevant, whatever my opinion, humans will always want to have kids. Yes, yes, there are outliers, but that's still not going to change the innate human drive to procreate.

As stated, at a genetic level, humans want to procreate (not just for sex, but to bear children). The issue arises mainly in developed, urban environments, where the lifestyle is different from a more rural area. Just like most parents, people want the best for their children and this involves a significant time and financial investment, of course, the the issue is that the time and money investment is becoming increasingly more difficult to accept for most adults, and they know this.

Of course, in Korea's case there's a strong cultural element (people are almost bullied into marriage and procreation by their parents and for BOTH Korea men and women, the traditional Korean roles of marriage aren't particularly appealing with a western influenced mindset), still, this doesn't change the central argument.

People's lifestyles are influenced by the environment and vice-versa. People want to have kids, they just feel like the can't afford it, aren't willing to sacrifice what little pleasures they have for bearing children or are too focused on materialism.
As people have fewer children, the environment will change, other property prices in big cities will go down or people will live elsewhere, either firms will make it easier for youngsters to get work, or they'll slowly crumble under the burden of supporting increasingly aged workforce etc.

Essentially, society will adapt to the changes and these changes will make it easier for young couples to have kids.
So, at the end of the day, society is a self correcting organism and we really don't have to worry about either extreme.


  • kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 4943

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #73 on: August 20, 2018, 09:53:45 am »
... whether I think it's irresponsible or not to remain childless becomes totally irrelevant, whatever my opinion, humans will always want to have kids....
...
As people have fewer children, the environment will change... Essentially, society will adapt to the changes and these changes will make it easier for young couples to have kids.
So, at the end of the day, society is a self correcting organism and we really don't have to worry about either extreme.
+1
   This is all assuming everything is business as usual, of course. Negative feedback systems regarding populations tend to go all wonky in times of crisis.


Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #74 on: August 20, 2018, 10:04:40 am »
You can call them underclasses or chavs or whatever but they are actually the only ones keeping the Anglosaxon genetics going.

Yeah. I guess the future doesn’t look too bright.

I'm just curious... does anyone really care about keeping "the Anglosaxon genetics" going? Put differently, does anyone still care about keeping races pure? More specifically... in 2018 are there still people who will openly admit that they want to keep white bloodlines pure? Are those people out there?
of course there are. just look as far as Britain First facebook page

Perhaps it was a virtue signalling 'How could anyone think anything so outrageous in this day and age?' kind of post.


Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #75 on: August 20, 2018, 10:07:54 am »
I'm not prepared to follow the tangent this thread is going on, so I'll just focus on OP's question (I'm miserable that my principal decided to open school LAST THURSDAY, while my wife has her first day THIS WEDNESDAY... nearly a week difference between public school opening dates <sigh> Korea).

I don't care how special or unique you think you are, as a whole, humans want to procreate and that'll never change. So, whether I think it's irresponsible or not to remain childless becomes totally irrelevant, whatever my opinion, humans will always want to have kids. Yes, yes, there are outliers, but that's still not going to change the innate human drive to procreate.

As stated, at a genetic level, humans want to procreate (not just for sex, but to bear children). The issue arises mainly in developed, urban environments, where the lifestyle is different from a more rural area. Just like most parents, people want the best for their children and this involves a significant time and financial investment, of course, the the issue is that the time and money investment is becoming increasingly more difficult to accept for most adults, and they know this.

Of course, in Korea's case there's a strong cultural element (people are almost bullied into marriage and procreation by their parents and for BOTH Korea men and women, the traditional Korean roles of marriage aren't particularly appealing with a western influenced mindset), still, this doesn't change the central argument.

People's lifestyles are influenced by the environment and vice-versa. People want to have kids, they just feel like the can't afford it, aren't willing to sacrifice what little pleasures they have for bearing children or are too focused on materialism.
As people have fewer children, the environment will change, other property prices in big cities will go down or people will live elsewhere, either firms will make it easier for youngsters to get work, or they'll slowly crumble under the burden of supporting increasingly aged workforce etc.

Essentially, society will adapt to the changes and these changes will make it easier for young couples to have kids.
So, at the end of the day, society is a self correcting organism and we really don't have to worry about either extreme.

You don't think a lack of spirituality/nihilism plays a part as well?

E.g.

Quote
It really is as simple as this - no children no future.

I am perfectly fine with this.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 10:13:16 am by eggieguffer »


  • Aristocrat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1549

    • November 10, 2014, 01:04:27 pm
Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #76 on: August 20, 2018, 10:33:57 am »
I'm not prepared to follow the tangent this thread is going on, so I'll just focus on OP's question (I'm miserable that my principal decided to open school LAST THURSDAY, while my wife has her first day THIS WEDNESDAY... nearly a week difference between public school opening dates <sigh> Korea).

I don't care how special or unique you think you are, as a whole, humans want to procreate and that'll never change. So, whether I think it's irresponsible or not to remain childless becomes totally irrelevant, whatever my opinion, humans will always want to have kids. Yes, yes, there are outliers, but that's still not going to change the innate human drive to procreate.

As stated, at a genetic level, humans want to procreate (not just for sex, but to bear children). The issue arises mainly in developed, urban environments, where the lifestyle is different from a more rural area. Just like most parents, people want the best for their children and this involves a significant time and financial investment, of course, the the issue is that the time and money investment is becoming increasingly more difficult to accept for most adults, and they know this.

Of course, in Korea's case there's a strong cultural element (people are almost bullied into marriage and procreation by their parents and for BOTH Korea men and women, the traditional Korean roles of marriage aren't particularly appealing with a western influenced mindset), still, this doesn't change the central argument.

People's lifestyles are influenced by the environment and vice-versa. People want to have kids, they just feel like the can't afford it, aren't willing to sacrifice what little pleasures they have for bearing children or are too focused on materialism.
As people have fewer children, the environment will change, other property prices in big cities will go down or people will live elsewhere, either firms will make it easier for youngsters to get work, or they'll slowly crumble under the burden of supporting increasingly aged workforce etc.

Essentially, society will adapt to the changes and these changes will make it easier for young couples to have kids.
So, at the end of the day, society is a self correcting organism and we really don't have to worry about either extreme.

You don't think a lack of spirituality/nihilism plays a part as well?

E.g.

Quote
It really is as simple as this - no children no future.

I am perfectly fine with this.

200,000 years of evolution and suddenly, raising kids is too mainstream? So, to answer your question, nope.

Morales don't come into this, it purely comes down to what makes you happy or what you think will make you happy.
People are deciding not to have children because they think they'll be happier with less responsibility, not because they're trying to be edgy or piss off society.

We're genetically wired to find happiness in raising kids. Going against that means you're probably going to feel less fulfilled during life. I know some people (probably the vegan, cross-fitter, militant atheist, yoga, vaping type) are going to preach that they're not going to have kids and are so happy about it etc.
Since they're such special snowflakes, they'll have such a minuscule impact on society and honestly, nobody cares.

The attitude over having kids has shifted because of money and culture.
Money priorities are going to shift, culture will change and the environment will react and adapt.
While this is happening, and when it happens, middle class urbanites will start having more kids.
So, no worries.


Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #77 on: August 20, 2018, 11:14:01 am »
I don't know if it is so easily reversed. Japan is a bit further down the road on this than most and, despite government efforts, there has been no improvements in fertility.


Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #78 on: August 20, 2018, 11:29:47 am »
Quote
200,000 years of evolution and suddenly, raising kids is too mainstream? So, to answer your question, nope.

Morales don't come into this, it purely comes down to what makes you happy or what you think will make you happy.
People are deciding not to have children because they think they'll be happier with less responsibility, not because they're trying to be edgy or piss off society.

For 200,000 years of evolution or so, we've believed in a higher being/after life etc.which must have imparted a stronger sense of purpose on having kids. I'm not saying people are trying to be edgy or piss off society, just that there is now lacking a sense of duty connected to the spiritual community we all used to belong to in the West.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 11:50:26 am by eggieguffer »


  • Aristocrat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1549

    • November 10, 2014, 01:04:27 pm
Re: Is remaining childless irresponsible? Elon Musk on Demographics
« Reply #79 on: August 20, 2018, 12:19:09 pm »
Quote
200,000 years of evolution and suddenly, raising kids is too mainstream? So, to answer your question, nope.

Morales don't come into this, it purely comes down to what makes you happy or what you think will make you happy.
People are deciding not to have children because they think they'll be happier with less responsibility, not because they're trying to be edgy or piss off society.

For 200,000 years of evolution or so, we've believed in a higher being/after life etc.which must have imparted a stronger sense of purpose on having kids. I'm not saying people are trying to be edgy or piss off society, just that there is now lacking a sense of duty connected to the spiritual community we all used to belong to in the West.

I get you and I'm with Freud on this one. Freud believed that all intrinsic human instinct fell into 2 categories, the Eros (life drive) or Thanatos death drive. We're all born with these drives, they're independent of morals.
Thanks to globalization, traditional values and norms of western civilization have a lot more to compete with, people have become increasingly exposed to multiple lifestyles and the blending of cultures has influenced this too.

Ultimately, no matter how many alternate lifestyles people explore, the life drive will always be there  and humans will ALWAYS desire to sire children.