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Re: NYT hires Korean-born journalist despite history of racist tweeting
« Reply #80 on: August 13, 2018, 02:09:31 pm »
I just wrote a post about it then realized I was getting into an immigration argument with Chester Jim, on thread about this f*cking Erica Jeong topic, a few months after I'd sworn off this website forever... So I deleted it.

But the long and short is that there was a GAO report released in 2011 by Steve King and Zoe Lofgren, wherein they took a sample of 1,000 arrest and conviction records for undocumented people in five states, and extrapolated the data to conclude that illegal immigrants must be responsible for 25,000 murders in the US. It's an extremely weak methodology and there's no hard evidence to support that figure, as in 25,000 actual homicide convictions for undocumented immigrants.


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Re: NYT hires Korean-born journalist despite history of racist tweeting
« Reply #81 on: August 13, 2018, 02:30:29 pm »
They have only murdered something like 25000 us citizens in the last two decades.
Seems unlikely.
Source?

I donít know why Iíd bother with since you most likely donít care one way or the other.

Thatís a conservative estimate by the government accounting office and itís not counting legal immigrants, many of whom are anchor babies and or American on paper only.
It goes something like this 350,000 immigrants are in the us prison system and about 67 percent are Mexican.  One to two percent have committed murder. 


The number of illegals in the country is between 30 and 50 million,  not 11.  Why has it been 11 for the last few decades,  when millions come in every year.   There several are clever ways people have figured out that the number 11 is a lie.  You can look at the rate of remittances.   For investment reasons some major finance companies have used many clever methods to find out how many are here.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 02:32:26 pm by Chester Jim »
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Re: NYT hires Korean-born journalist despite history of racist tweeting
« Reply #82 on: August 13, 2018, 02:36:08 pm »
I just wrote a post about it then realized I was getting into an immigration argument with Chester Jim, on thread about this f*cking Erica Jeong topic, a few months after I'd sworn off this website forever... So I deleted it.

But the long and short is that there was a GAO report released in 2011 by Steve King and Zoe Lofgren, wherein they took a sample of 1,000 arrest and conviction records for undocumented people in five states, and extrapolated the data to conclude that illegal immigrants must be responsible for 25,000 murders in the US. It's an extremely weak methodology and there's no hard evidence to support that figure, as in 25,000 actual homicide convictions for undocumented immigrants.

Thereís no hard evidence because our government has decided not to keep track. 
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Re: NYT hires Korean-born journalist despite history of racist tweeting
« Reply #83 on: August 13, 2018, 03:07:12 pm »
"The crime rate among illegal immigrants in Arizona is twice that of other residents, Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Friday, citing a new report based on conviction data.... And the crimes they were convicted of were, on the whole, more serious"
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jan/26/illegals-commit-crimes-double-rate-native-born-stu/

If they are committing murder at twice the rate of citizens then that would mean that 30 million illegal immigrants commit 3,000 murders per year and 30,000 murders per decade. So 25,000 is certainly within the realm of possibility. Of course, I realize that I am extrapolating Arizona data to the US in general.


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Re: NYT hires Korean-born journalist despite history of racist tweeting
« Reply #84 on: August 13, 2018, 03:24:27 pm »
I donít know why Iíd bother with since you most likely donít care one way or the other.
Of course I care. Wouldn't be asking for a source, otherwise.
I wasn't trying to contradict you: it was just an interesting stat that I would like to read up on.
I just figured you would have a source handy.

Thatís a conservative estimate by the government accounting office and itís not counting legal immigrants, many of whom are anchor babies and or American on paper only.
It goes something like this 350,000 immigrants are in the us prison system and about 67 percent are Mexican.  One to two percent have committed murder. 
Washington Times quotes around 57,000 immigrants in American prisons.
Also, this is a bit of a tangent, but Mexico is North America so wouldn't apply to Central American stats. Part of why I though the number to be so unlikely.
The number of illegals in the country is between 30 and 50 million,  not 11.  Why has it been 11 for the last few decades,  when millions come in every year.   There several are clever ways people have figured out that the number 11 is a lie.  You can look at the rate of remittances.   For investment reasons some major finance companies have used many clever methods to find out how many are here.
Again, a link would be nice.

« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 03:32:41 pm by kyndo »


Re: NYT hires Korean-born journalist despite history of racist tweeting
« Reply #85 on: August 13, 2018, 03:32:14 pm »
Another point of clarification... Since the GAO report refers to hypothetical crimes, it's impossible to tell whether they were committed against "US Citizens", as Chester Jim claims. And the only immigration-related common denominator among the five-state sample is a lack of legal residency status. So again, it's hard to know if these people were immigrants in any meaningful sense of the word. The report tells us nothing about how long they'd been in the country before committing their crimes, how long they intended to stay, whether they'd applied for legal status, how they entered the country, whether they had previous deportations, etc. That might not seem necessary if you just want a headline number for murders, but it is necessary if you care about having reliable data on immigration and crime.


Re: NYT hires Korean-born journalist despite history of racist tweeting
« Reply #86 on: August 13, 2018, 03:58:44 pm »
Quote
If they are committing murder at twice the rate of citizens then that would mean that 30 million illegal immigrants commit 3,000 murders per year and 30,000 murders per decade. So 25,000 is certainly within the realm of possibility. Of course, I realize that I am extrapolating Arizona data to the US in general.

After California, Arizona has the fourth-highest share of unauthorized immigrants in the US, so that extrapolation would almost certainly be skewed. Also, 4/5 of those immigrants come from Mexico, whereas that proportion is much lower in other states.

http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/

Arizona is also relatively unique in fielding a lot more crime related to the border, such as drug and human trafficking, than is likely to occur among immigrant populations in non-border states. Add to that the increased likelihood of arrest granted by SB1070, and you've got numerous reasons not to extrapolate. Not to mention reasons to not trust data produced by a gun-lobby front group, cited by Jeff Sessions and promoted by the Moonies.


Re: NYT hires Korean-born journalist despite history of racist tweeting
« Reply #87 on: August 13, 2018, 05:36:04 pm »
Is this your biggest problem of being discriminated? These are just few tweets. In comparison Koreans have been victims in world history for thousands of years. White people can not understand oppression like that. They have privilege even when they leave USA. They get jobs in Korea just because their race. Do not be a little whiny cry baby. Look at it in perspective.

Perspectives are subjective.

The average uber brat at your hagwon lives like a 16th century mandarin. Little 민준's biggest concern is beating 지훈 at Minecraft, or acing his mid-terms to get into a higher class of university. Thanks to Western civilisation, for which white people have played the dominant role, overwhelmingly so, your hagwon kids don't have to worry about pulling clean water out of the well, or being raped by the village elder.


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Re: NYT hires Korean-born journalist despite history of racist tweeting
« Reply #88 on: August 13, 2018, 05:56:40 pm »
I donít know why Iíd bother with since you most likely donít care one way or the other.
Of course I care. Wouldn't be asking for a source, otherwise.
I wasn't trying to contradict you: it was just an interesting stat that I would like to read up on.
I just figured you would have a source handy.

Thatís a conservative estimate by the government accounting office and itís not counting legal immigrants, many of whom are anchor babies and or American on paper only.
It goes something like this 350,000 immigrants are in the us prison system and about 67 percent are Mexican.  One to two percent have committed murder. 
Washington Times quotes around 57,000 immigrants in American prisons.
Also, this is a bit of a tangent, but Mexico is North America so wouldn't apply to Central American stats. Part of why I though the number to be so unlikely.
The number of illegals in the country is between 30 and 50 million,  not 11.  Why has it been 11 for the last few decades,  when millions come in every year.   There several are clever ways people have figured out that the number 11 is a lie.  You can look at the rate of remittances.   For investment reasons some major finance companies have used many clever methods to find out how many are here.
Again, a link would be nice.

That 58k is only federal prisoners.  The fed prison population is only 200 k.

There are about 200 thousand federal prisoners.  And the doj just released that over 50 k are illegals.   Also the state and local data on illegals is difficult to get.  But there are about 1.6 million state and local prisoners.   
350 k total illegal immigrants in prison is a safe bet. 

Anyways, they should be deported 100k is too many. So the numbers donít matter too much in my opinion.   States should cough up the data, so people can stop carbon dating to figure out something that just needs to be added.

But you can look at remittances going up much faster than the growth rate e.x. pop goes up supppsedly 56 % , but remittances go up 200%.   Housing data is another .  When the population go up by 6 percent but housing permits go up 600 percent....
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 07:23:32 pm by Chester Jim »
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Re: NYT hires Korean-born journalist despite history of racist tweeting
« Reply #89 on: August 13, 2018, 08:18:38 pm »
Having little restrictions on immigrant labor is just a bad practice. Even if you're pro-large scale immigration, you should still support a legal framework system and controlled entry, simply for registration for benefits and identification and everything. The system we have right now where we have large numbers of people entering, without tracking, and with a porous border is not sustainable.

You can also favor less immigration and not be racist. If you're simply looking at labor supply and demand and its effects on wages, one can favor more or less immigration as economic conditions necessitate.
Our border is not porous. It is one of most well-defended borders in the world.

Yes, I support a path to legal status for illegal immigrants. Unfortunately, the far right consistently blocks such legislation.


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Re: NYT hires Korean-born journalist despite history of racist tweeting
« Reply #90 on: August 13, 2018, 08:21:21 pm »
Crap like this is why Trump won.
The Fox echo chamber at work. trump won because he energized the racists and the haters enough to get out and vote, with some help from his handler Putin.
You really think that is why he won?   If you poll Americans you can figure out what they care about.   At the very top were jobs and immigration.
America is not full of 50 million racists.  Absurd .

I think to someone like gogators being concerned about immigration and being a racist are probably the same thing.
Show me the difference.

Iíd just like to point out for all people  who view your posts from here on out  that you donít know the difference between race and culture.
You and your fellow travelers are defending white culture. The concern is mainly a fear of losing privilege and power due to changing demographics.

It's racism.
What is best for the country? Laura Ingraham recently talked about unwelcome demographic changes being foisted on the American people. Back when many of my ancestors legally immigrated to America there was a shortage of low skilled labor. Immigrants were expected to pull their own weight and make a positive contribution to the country- even if that meant working long hours doing dangerous jobs for low pay. There was no such thing as welfare back then. A lot of things have changed since then. America can't absorb millions of low-skilled immigrants from third world countries without suffering serious harm.
Yesterday and today I dined at restaurants with help wanted signs that are there every time I've eaten there. Curious, I asked about them and was told it's really hard to get people to apply.

As for "suffering serious harm," I'm from Missouri--show me rather that "foisting" unsubstantiated claims.

No Central American immigrant has committed an act of terror in the US. While the Americans you and Laura are defending have been up to lots of no good.

This isn't about low-skilled workers--this is racism.
Come back in 20-30 years after much of America has been transformed into a third world country and tell me that you see no harm.
The people doing that are the carping connies who have demonized all government and taxation. Coming soon to where I live--toll roads--because they won't raise gas taxes to raise money to fix or build roads.

Immigrants aren't doing that.


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Re: NYT hires Korean-born journalist despite history of racist tweeting
« Reply #91 on: August 13, 2018, 08:28:04 pm »
73.6% of all statistics are made up.

Just to put jimbo's posts in perspective.


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Re: NYT hires Korean-born journalist despite history of racist tweeting
« Reply #92 on: August 13, 2018, 09:08:13 pm »
An interesting read on why people have different ideas about "free speech"; often they are talking about different things!

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/two-concepts-of-freedom-of-speech/546791/



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Re: NYT hires Korean-born journalist despite history of racist tweeting
« Reply #93 on: August 13, 2018, 10:21:13 pm »
Having little restrictions on immigrant labor is just a bad practice. Even if you're pro-large scale immigration, you should still support a legal framework system and controlled entry, simply for registration for benefits and identification and everything. The system we have right now where we have large numbers of people entering, without tracking, and with a porous border is not sustainable.

You can also favor less immigration and not be racist. If you're simply looking at labor supply and demand and its effects on wages, one can favor more or less immigration as economic conditions necessitate.
Our border is not porous. It is one of most well-defended borders in the world.

Yes, I support a path to legal status for illegal immigrants. Unfortunately, the far right consistently blocks such legislation.
You are way out there man.  The border is porous?   You guys argue that the wall wonít work because itís just to vast. But at the same time itís ďwell defendedĒ ?

Why should illegal immigrants get a path to legal status?     Path talk is nonsense.  It means giving them citizenship before people who are doing it by legal means. 
What path?  They wonít pay back taxes or pass tests or prove anything..   asylum seekers are even worse, itís almost 100 % fraud.  Fleeing gang violence ?  I mean come on.   Move to another state in your country then. 

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Re: NYT hires Korean-born journalist despite history of racist tweeting
« Reply #94 on: August 14, 2018, 06:22:20 am »
An interesting read on why people have different ideas about "free speech"; often they are talking about different things!

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/two-concepts-of-freedom-of-speech/546791/

Quote
While conservative students defend the importance of inviting controversial speakers to campus and giving offense, many self-identified liberals are engaged in increasingly disruptive, even violent, efforts to shut them down. Free speech for some, they argue, serves only to silence and exclude others. Denying hateful or historically ďprivilegedĒ voices a platform is thus necessary to make equality effective, so that the marginalized and vulnerable can finally speak upóand be heard.

Quote
No wonder the ďkidsĒ are unpersuaded. While trigger warnings, safe spaces, and no-platforming grab headlines, poll after poll suggests that a more subtle, shift in mores is afoot. To a generation convinced that hateful speech is itself a form of violence or ďsilencing,Ē pleading the First Amendment is to miss the point. Most of these students do not see themselves as standing against free speech at all. What they care about is the equal right to speech, and equal access to a public forum in which the historically marginalized and excluded can be heard and count equally with the privileged.

So conservative viewpoints are justifiably suppressed (even with violence) so that liberals can enjoy more freedom of speech? How do liberal viewpoints not get enough publicity? Most of the mainstream media's coverage (over 90%) of Trump is negative. The article seems like a joke to me.


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Re: NYT hires Korean-born journalist despite history of racist tweeting
« Reply #95 on: August 14, 2018, 06:49:43 am »
An interesting read on why people have different ideas about "free speech"; often they are talking about different things!

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/two-concepts-of-freedom-of-speech/546791/

Quote
While conservative students defend the importance of inviting controversial speakers to campus and giving offense, many self-identified liberals are engaged in increasingly disruptive, even violent, efforts to shut them down. Free speech for some, they argue, serves only to silence and exclude others. Denying hateful or historically ďprivilegedĒ voices a platform is thus necessary to make equality effective, so that the marginalized and vulnerable can finally speak upóand be heard.

Quote
No wonder the ďkidsĒ are unpersuaded. While trigger warnings, safe spaces, and no-platforming grab headlines, poll after poll suggests that a more subtle, shift in mores is afoot. To a generation convinced that hateful speech is itself a form of violence or ďsilencing,Ē pleading the First Amendment is to miss the point. Most of these students do not see themselves as standing against free speech at all. What they care about is the equal right to speech, and equal access to a public forum in which the historically marginalized and excluded can be heard and count equally with the privileged.

So conservative viewpoints are justifiably suppressed (even with violence) so that liberals can enjoy more freedom of speech? How do liberal viewpoints not get enough publicity? Most of the mainstream media's coverage (over 90%) of Trump is negative. The article seems like a joke to me.

Serious question: Did you read it with intent to understand the authorís viewpoint, or did you read it ďdefensivelyĒ, with an intent to disagree?

I donít think she is supporting ďno-platformĒ violence so much as exploring how people rationalize it.



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Re: NYT hires Korean-born journalist despite history of racist tweeting
« Reply #96 on: August 14, 2018, 07:52:58 am »
That 58k is only federal prisoners.  The fed prison population is only 200 k.
That's a good point. Nice catch.
   It's a bit of a tragedy: immigration is now sending border detainees to federal prison, despite that illegal entry is a misdemeanor rather than a felony. Considering that federal prisons are reserved for dangerous offenders, this doesn't seem like a punishment that properly fits the crime.
    Gotta provide fodder to the American prison industry!


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Re: NYT hires Korean-born journalist despite history of racist tweeting
« Reply #97 on: August 14, 2018, 08:18:49 am »
Having little restrictions on immigrant labor is just a bad practice. Even if you're pro-large scale immigration, you should still support a legal framework system and controlled entry, simply for registration for benefits and identification and everything. The system we have right now where we have large numbers of people entering, without tracking, and with a porous border is not sustainable.

You can also favor less immigration and not be racist. If you're simply looking at labor supply and demand and its effects on wages, one can favor more or less immigration as economic conditions necessitate.
Our border is not porous. It is one of most well-defended borders in the world.

Yes, I support a path to legal status for illegal immigrants. Unfortunately, the far right consistently blocks such legislation.
You are way out there man.  The border is porous?   You guys argue that the wall wonít work because itís just to vast. But at the same time itís ďwell defendedĒ ?

Why should illegal immigrants get a path to legal status?     Path talk is nonsense.  It means giving them citizenship before people who are doing it by legal means. 
What path?  They wonít pay back taxes or pass tests or prove anything..   asylum seekers are even worse, itís almost 100 % fraud.  Fleeing gang violence ?  I mean come on.   Move to another state in your country then.
Your "massage" is utter crap.

Immigrants pay taxes, even illegal ones. The pay SS (which they can't collect) and payroll taxes, gas taxes, sales taxes property taxes. Let's see trump's tax returns and then we can talk.

Asylum seekers are not almost 100% fraud.

What path? The one that legislators in Congress have been trying to create for decades only to hamstrung by reactionaries.


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Re: NYT hires Korean-born journalist despite history of racist tweeting
« Reply #98 on: August 14, 2018, 09:53:44 am »
Having little restrictions on immigrant labor is just a bad practice. Even if you're pro-large scale immigration, you should still support a legal framework system and controlled entry, simply for registration for benefits and identification and everything. The system we have right now where we have large numbers of people entering, without tracking, and with a porous border is not sustainable.

You can also favor less immigration and not be racist. If you're simply looking at labor supply and demand and its effects on wages, one can favor more or less immigration as economic conditions necessitate.
Our border is not porous. It is one of most well-defended borders in the world.

Yes, I support a path to legal status for illegal immigrants. Unfortunately, the far right consistently blocks such legislation.
You are way out there man.  The border is porous?   You guys argue that the wall wonít work because itís just to vast. But at the same time itís ďwell defendedĒ ?

Why should illegal immigrants get a path to legal status?     Path talk is nonsense.  It means giving them citizenship before people who are doing it by legal means. 
What path?  They wonít pay back taxes or pass tests or prove anything..   asylum seekers are even worse, itís almost 100 % fraud.  Fleeing gang violence ?  I mean come on.   Move to another state in your country then.
Your "massage" is utter crap.

Immigrants pay taxes, even illegal ones. The pay SS (which they can't collect) and payroll taxes, gas taxes, sales taxes property taxes. Let's see trump's tax returns and then we can talk.

Asylum seekers are not almost 100% fraud.

What path? The one that legislators in Congress have been trying to create for decades only to hamstrung by reactionaries.

They donít pay social security or income.  Gas and sales of course.  I think in one year 70 percent of the births in Stockton were from immigrants, thatís not free.  Over 50 percent of legal immigrants are on the dole.     It is a crime to sneak into the us, and you think they will pay into social security.    I mean just think for a moment.  Jorge waits for a pickup truck to hire him for 10 an hour.  Heís going to pay into social security without a social security number, if he hasnít stolen one? Heís going to say oh I have to go and pay into social security, where is the government office.?
They are a net loss, if you believe the debt is real and has to be paid back by us taxpayers.

Itís not a path.  Itís amnesty, just giving them citizenship.  They wonít have to do anything, just like the 80s amnesty. 


Yes asylums are almost all frauds.   They are coached by organizations about what to say.  Over 90 percent get accepted.  No one in the us is going to check if a Nigerian is being harassed because of his religion.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 10:04:30 am by Chester Jim »
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Re: NYT hires Korean-born journalist despite history of racist tweeting
« Reply #99 on: August 14, 2018, 10:02:08 am »
That 58k is only federal prisoners.  The fed prison population is only 200 k.
That's a good point. Nice catch.
   It's a bit of a tragedy: immigration is now sending border detainees to federal prison, despite that illegal entry is a misdemeanor rather than a felony. Considering that federal prisons are reserved for dangerous offenders, this doesn't seem like a punishment that properly fits the crime.
    Gotta provide fodder to the American prison industry!
Thatís bogus.  Stick to saying what you know

ď29 percent of aliens in BOP custody have committed immigration offenses such as illegal reentry after removal.

most of the aliens are incarcerated because of other federal crimes they committed. According to the report, 46 percent of these aliens committed drug trafficking or other drug-related offenses, which was the largest crime category committed by aliens in BOP custody. The remaining 25 percent committed a variety of other criminal offenses, including fraud, weapons charges, racketeering, and sexual crimes. ď
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