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Failed Teachers
« on: May 30, 2018, 12:25:17 am »
Are there any persons teaching in Korea or elsewhere in Asia who are failed teachers
in their home countries?

When I say failed teachers I mean those who worked as hard as they could to be
competent teachers in USA, Canada, Australia, or the UK. Licensed certified teachers
who were evaluated and were rated poorly to a point that they do not have good
standing on their teacher licensing. I am sure that these teachers may have done
a TEFL and moved aboroad to teach EFL/ESL in Korea, China, Japan, or Thailand and
are enjoying it better there than in the West.

But let's face it, if you have proven to be a failed teacher in Asia and in the West,
that means teaching is not for you, period. But I am not surprised that there are
teachers who are more successful in their careers teaching EFL/ESL in Asia or perhaps
teaching for international schools than they would be in their home countries. Why
would that be?

Are there any teachers here who are teaching EFL/ESL in Asia or teaching at any international
schools who are failed teachers in their home countries? If you are one of these
teachers, give me some feedback. Why were you a failed teacher in your home
country but not in Asia? What indicates that you are more successful as a teacher
abroad than in your home country?

If you are teaching for an international school in China or Thailand, your
apprasials would definately get you a boost for teaching back in your home
country. If for example you are licensed to teach in the Canadian province
of Ontario under the OCT (Ontario College of Teachers), and you get teacher
evaluations that fail you as a teacher after you tried your best, the results
would be sent to the OCT and it would jeopardize your good and regular
standing. If you do however have a TEFL certification, that would be your
ticket to leaving Canada to teach abroad. But as I said, if you don't do well
as a teacher abroad as well as in your home country, that means the teaching
profession is not for you.

There are other ways to be a failed teacher aside from just bad evaluations.
So if you are a failed teacher back home but yet sucessful in Asia, or if you
know someone who is in that situation, explain it to me.


Re: Failed Teachers
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2018, 07:30:08 am »
Are there any persons teaching in Korea or elsewhere in Asia who are failed teachers
in their home countries?

When I say failed teachers I mean those who worked as hard as they could to be
competent teachers in USA, Canada, Australia, or the UK. Licensed certified teachers
who were evaluated and were rated poorly to a point that they do not have good
standing on their teacher licensing. I am sure that these teachers may have done
a TEFL and moved aboroad to teach EFL/ESL in Korea, China, Japan, or Thailand and
are enjoying it better there than in the West.

But let's face it, if you have proven to be a failed teacher in Asia and in the West,
that means teaching is not for you, period. But I am not surprised that there are
teachers who are more successful in their careers teaching EFL/ESL in Asia or perhaps
teaching for international schools than they would be in their home countries. Why
would that be?

Are there any teachers here who are teaching EFL/ESL in Asia or teaching at any international
schools who are failed teachers in their home countries? If you are one of these
teachers, give me some feedback. Why were you a failed teacher in your home
country but not in Asia? What indicates that you are more successful as a teacher
abroad than in your home country?

If you are teaching for an international school in China or Thailand, your
apprasials would definately get you a boost for teaching back in your home
country. If for example you are licensed to teach in the Canadian province
of Ontario under the OCT (Ontario College of Teachers), and you get teacher
evaluations that fail you as a teacher after you tried your best, the results
would be sent to the OCT and it would jeopardize your good and regular
standing. If you do however have a TEFL certification, that would be your
ticket to leaving Canada to teach abroad. But as I said, if you don't do well
as a teacher abroad as well as in your home country, that means the teaching
profession is not for you.

There are other ways to be a failed teacher aside from just bad evaluations.
So if you are a failed teacher back home but yet sucessful in Asia, or if you
know someone who is in that situation, explain it to me.

Failed???

Are you implying that all certified teachers are only teaching here because they "failed" at holding their job back home?
An alternate view is that many "passed" on the self preservation score card. Where I'm from, a new teacher is assigned
a school by the government, for the first 2yrs. These schools are usually gang ridden, plagued by drugs and violent students. Pay is low, hours are long and the environment can be downright hostile.

I sympathize, most of these kids are victims and I really want to help them, but when you have your own family and no property to call your own, you have to be selective about your priorities. I'm here because the pay is better, the saving potential is much higher (two salaries, low rent and housing benefits). I have to focus my attention on my own family before another.


Re: Failed Teachers
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2018, 12:00:33 pm »
This is really quite a bizarre discussion you've started. Are you convinced that a lot of teachers in Korea failed in their home country? Do you want to somehow up the general teaching standard by getting these supposedly failed teachers to leave?
What prompted you to make this thread? I think it's a bit pointless searching out failed teachers as there are so many good reasons to come and work here. Travel, experience other cultures, free rent, new experiences etc.


Re: Failed Teachers
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2018, 12:12:46 pm »
This is really quite a bizarre discussion you've started. Are you convinced that a lot of teachers in Korea failed in their home country? Do you want to somehow up the general teaching standard by getting these supposedly failed teachers to leave?
What prompted you to make this thread? I think it's a bit pointless searching out failed teachers as there are so many good reasons to come and work here. Travel, experience other cultures, free rent, new experiences etc.

I am not rationalizing that all Native English teachers are failed teachers in their home countries.
I made this thread because I want to know about experiences. That's what it is all about. Not
all licensed certified teachers teaching in Asia are failed teachers in their home countries, but
I know that there are teachers who are failed in their home countries and successful with their
jobs teaching in Asia. Besides, the international schools and EFL job markets in Asia are
still not that big.


Re: Failed Teachers
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2018, 09:58:52 pm »
I had a Canadian friend about 11 years ago in Korea who was a qualified teacher in Canada, from New Brunswick.  She wanted to come here in her twenties for a couple of years travelling and teaching and she had a lovely time.  But she wanted to go home.  For 8 years, she had to go out and find teaching work as she had a 'D' contract and did temporary jobs in that time but they were few a far between (maybe that'll mean more to Canadians).  This year, a full 8 years after doing this temporary contract work, she finally got a 'B' contract (which means the education office finds her jobs, but she isn't permanent at any school).  I remember quite a few times telling she should pop back to Korea as it is easier to get work.  But she said, if she did that, she'd drop to the bottom of the list for temping, so stuck around.  I can't imagine, if you like working, how you can stick around for that long to find work as a qualified teacher.  That is almost a fifth of your working life, waiting.  Not really what you call a failure (bad expression), but a remark on the kind of system that would make you think twice about sticking around.

New Brunswick sure has a different way of doing things than Ontario.
I would not call that being a failure, but somehow the way they set up
the system for teachers (especially new teachers) is making it seem as
if they are failing the teachers for a chance in their careers don't you think?


  • JNM
  • The Legend

    • 4425

    • January 19, 2015, 10:16:48 am
    • Seoul, South Korea
Re: Failed Teachers
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2018, 10:12:51 pm »
I had a Canadian friend about 11 years ago in Korea who was a qualified teacher in Canada, from New Brunswick.  She wanted to come here in her twenties for a couple of years travelling and teaching and she had a lovely time.  But she wanted to go home.  For 8 years, she had to go out and find teaching work as she had a 'D' contract and did temporary jobs in that time but they were few a far between (maybe that'll mean more to Canadians).  This year, a full 8 years after doing this temporary contract work, she finally got a 'B' contract (which means the education office finds her jobs, but she isn't permanent at any school).  I remember quite a few times telling she should pop back to Korea as it is easier to get work.  But she said, if she did that, she'd drop to the bottom of the list for temping, so stuck around.  I can't imagine, if you like working, how you can stick around for that long to find work as a qualified teacher.  That is almost a fifth of your working life, waiting.  Not really what you call a failure (bad expression), but a remark on the kind of system that would make you think twice about sticking around.

New Brunswick sure has a different way of doing things than Ontario.
I would not call that being a failure, but somehow the way they set up
the system for teachers (especially new teachers) is making it seem as
if they are failing the teachers for a chance in their careers don't you think?

I don't understand why universities are using tax dollars (and tax-payer backed student loans) to pump out more BEd grads.


Re: Failed Teachers
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2018, 08:55:51 pm »
I had a Canadian friend about 11 years ago in Korea who was a qualified teacher in Canada, from New Brunswick.  She wanted to come here in her twenties for a couple of years travelling and teaching and she had a lovely time.  But she wanted to go home.  For 8 years, she had to go out and find teaching work as she had a 'D' contract and did temporary jobs in that time but they were few a far between (maybe that'll mean more to Canadians).  This year, a full 8 years after doing this temporary contract work, she finally got a 'B' contract (which means the education office finds her jobs, but she isn't permanent at any school).  I remember quite a few times telling she should pop back to Korea as it is easier to get work.  But she said, if she did that, she'd drop to the bottom of the list for temping, so stuck around.  I can't imagine, if you like working, how you can stick around for that long to find work as a qualified teacher.  That is almost a fifth of your working life, waiting.  Not really what you call a failure (bad expression), but a remark on the kind of system that would make you think twice about sticking around.

New Brunswick sure has a different way of doing things than Ontario.
I would not call that being a failure, but somehow the way they set up
the system for teachers (especially new teachers) is making it seem as
if they are failing the teachers for a chance in their careers don't you think?

I don't understand why universities are using tax dollars (and tax-payer backed student loans) to pump out more BEd grads.

First of all doing a B.Ed. is a personal choice.
Second, too many people are doing a lot of university
degrees majoring in specific subjects that may never
guarantee a steady job after graduation.


  • JNM
  • The Legend

    • 4425

    • January 19, 2015, 10:16:48 am
    • Seoul, South Korea
Re: Failed Teachers
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2018, 09:10:12 pm »
I had a Canadian friend about 11 years ago in Korea who was a qualified teacher in Canada, from New Brunswick.  She wanted to come here in her twenties for a couple of years travelling and teaching and she had a lovely time.  But she wanted to go home.  For 8 years, she had to go out and find teaching work as she had a 'D' contract and did temporary jobs in that time but they were few a far between (maybe that'll mean more to Canadians).  This year, a full 8 years after doing this temporary contract work, she finally got a 'B' contract (which means the education office finds her jobs, but she isn't permanent at any school).  I remember quite a few times telling she should pop back to Korea as it is easier to get work.  But she said, if she did that, she'd drop to the bottom of the list for temping, so stuck around.  I can't imagine, if you like working, how you can stick around for that long to find work as a qualified teacher.  That is almost a fifth of your working life, waiting.  Not really what you call a failure (bad expression), but a remark on the kind of system that would make you think twice about sticking around.

New Brunswick sure has a different way of doing things than Ontario.
I would not call that being a failure, but somehow the way they set up
the system for teachers (especially new teachers) is making it seem as
if they are failing the teachers for a chance in their careers don't you think?

I don't understand why universities are using tax dollars (and tax-payer backed student loans) to pump out more BEd grads.

First of all doing a B.Ed. is a personal choice.
Second, too many people are doing a lot of university
degrees majoring in specific subjects that may never
guarantee a steady job after graduation.
But why are taxpayers footing part of the bill?



Re: Failed Teachers
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2018, 11:11:30 pm »
I had a Canadian friend about 11 years ago in Korea who was a qualified teacher in Canada, from New Brunswick.  She wanted to come here in her twenties for a couple of years travelling and teaching and she had a lovely time.  But she wanted to go home.  For 8 years, she had to go out and find teaching work as she had a 'D' contract and did temporary jobs in that time but they were few a far between (maybe that'll mean more to Canadians).  This year, a full 8 years after doing this temporary contract work, she finally got a 'B' contract (which means the education office finds her jobs, but she isn't permanent at any school).  I remember quite a few times telling she should pop back to Korea as it is easier to get work.  But she said, if she did that, she'd drop to the bottom of the list for temping, so stuck around.  I can't imagine, if you like working, how you can stick around for that long to find work as a qualified teacher.  That is almost a fifth of your working life, waiting.  Not really what you call a failure (bad expression), but a remark on the kind of system that would make you think twice about sticking around.

New Brunswick sure has a different way of doing things than Ontario.
I would not call that being a failure, but somehow the way they set up
the system for teachers (especially new teachers) is making it seem as
if they are failing the teachers for a chance in their careers don't you think?

I don't understand why universities are using tax dollars (and tax-payer backed student loans) to pump out more BEd grads.

First of all doing a B.Ed. is a personal choice.
Second, too many people are doing a lot of university
degrees majoring in specific subjects that may never
guarantee a steady job after graduation.
But why are taxpayers footing part of the bill?

Because tuition fees need to be regulated in order to help students
attend university to become productive global citizens to contribute
to society. But again tertiary education is not for everybody. The fact
is tuition fees will go up when there is a supply and demand element
to university education.


  • SanderB
  • Super Waygook

    • 435

    • June 02, 2018, 06:25:54 pm
    • Burning Oil Be Best
Re: Failed Teachers
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2019, 04:38:59 pm »
Quote
why are taxpayers footing part of the bill?

There is a huge shortage of teachers now and looming over us for the next few decades, if anything Bed should become completely free. Now only the first 2 years are free.
Fiat voluntas tua- What you want is allowed


Re: Failed Teachers
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2019, 02:58:34 am »
Sadly, I am not a registered teacher in any company. While I do indeed sympathise with the plight of teenagers in rough, crime-ridden neighbourhoods, I would ask for extra tools and help in order to deal with those kids.
Governments don't realise that crime and low attainment are not entirely about the teacher. There may also be evil influences in the kids' neighbourhoods or families. I would want some help in influencing those.

A registered chemistry teacher from the UK said that one of the most wonderful things about teaching chemistry in Asia was that he had more autonomy and could actually do more experiments. He could make the subject real for the students, make it come alive for them.

In some cases, it may be less that the teacher has failed back home, and more that they have given up on soulless British bureaucracy and cut backs.

Also, as I understand it, if you get a low grade in your teacher training course, you have failed and don't get to be a registered teacher at all. You may then try to get a CELTA course, but that means starting from zero at a hagwon or in EPIK. It cannot mean that you get to work in an international school in Seoul or Bundang as a registered teacher.


  • LIC
  • Expert Waygook

    • 842

    • February 15, 2019, 04:39:00 pm
    • NE Hemisphere
Re: Failed Teachers
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2019, 03:51:35 pm »
Why does having a BEd make you a teacher? I think that teaching is something that comes from within not without. You have the gift or you don't. All the alphabet soup in the world after your name won't make you a teacher if you don't have the gift.

I could read and write, tie my shoes, make breakfast and find my way around from store to store shopping, paying and counting correct change,get around from friend's house to friend's house and speak English and French before I even started school. My parents taught me and both of them were high school dropouts.

This whole failed rhetoric is designed to inflame and entice and it's a silly way of thinking.


  • NorthStar
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1289

    • July 05, 2017, 10:54:06 am
    • Mouseville
Re: Failed Teachers
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2019, 05:11:18 pm »
Quote
Why does having a BEd make you a teacher?

Considering the the state of public education, at least in the United States, I don't think it is much to brag about these days. 


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 4891

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Failed Teachers
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2019, 05:15:02 pm »
Some public schools are bad, sure. But a lot are good. Depends on the neighborhood.


  • LIC
  • Expert Waygook

    • 842

    • February 15, 2019, 04:39:00 pm
    • NE Hemisphere
Re: Failed Teachers
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2019, 10:26:51 am »
Some public schools are bad, sure. But a lot are good. Depends on the neighborhood.

Really? Wow, I never would have thought of that. Thanks for the insight.


  • McTinkle
  • Waygookin

    • 12

    • March 05, 2019, 06:36:48 pm
    • Busan, South Korea
Re: Failed Teachers
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2019, 11:38:35 am »
I'm a qualified science teacher from the UK. I was a teacher over there for a long time before I quit and came over to Korea to join up with EPIK.

It all depends on what you mean by failed. On paper I was a very good experienced teacher but I ended up hating the job. The system in the UK got increasingly worse and the stress was incredible. I had to get out before I did myself mental/physical damage. Does that make me a failed teacher? Others I know "failed" because they were pushed out by their schools or they "failed" because they worked a very hard job with almost no support. Because teaching is a hard, low paid job no one drifts into it without a generally good attitude (they want to do it) so the system makes them "failures". I think your question relies on the idea that some people are just useless and shouldn't be teaching. I don't think that's the reality at all. If they were that useless they wouldn't have become teachers in the first place.

I think a big difference between here and my job in the UK is accountability. In the UK I had to continually justify my practise, demonstrate class progress, etc etc. I was held accountable for things I had no control over and things that, due to my insane workload, I had no hope of achieving. Teaching became a stress cocktail where all the BS hyper-accountability overshadowed what was great about the job. As a teacher you were never good enough no matter how hard you worked (and trust me, I worked hard). If you had a good lesson you were a good teacher. If you had a bad one suddenly you were back to square one and it didn't matter how experienced you were or how good all your other lessons were, that was it.
Here, accountability (at least where I am) is much more reasonable. I know my expectations and I know if I come in, do the work and help out that is good enough. I know my position as a native English teacher is different to the locals and other teachers so other people will have different experiences. Also the kids are generally better behaved here. It also helps that my workload is lower so I can produce better lessons and resources. It's easier to be a good teacher if you actually had the time to do it!

I'm sure the original question is in good faith but it misses a much wider societal problem about education is and what its for and what jobs are in general. It's part of us living in the neo-liberal hell world I'm afraid and I would need to be in a pub with a few pints in me to go down that rabbit hole. Overall I'd say its dangerous to start labelling people failures and more important to look at the broken systems that try to label them as such.



  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 3822

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Failed Teachers
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2019, 11:43:41 am »
I'm a qualified science teacher from the UK. I was a teacher over there for a long time before I quit and came over to Korea to join up with EPIK.

It all depends on what you mean by failed. On paper I was a very good experienced teacher but I ended up hating the job. The system in the UK got increasingly worse and the stress was incredible. I had to get out before I did myself mental/physical damage. Does that make me a failed teacher? Others I know "failed" because they were pushed out by their schools or they "failed" because they worked a very hard job with almost no support. Because teaching is a hard, low paid job no one drifts into it without a generally good attitude (they want to do it) so the system makes them "failures". I think your question relies on the idea that some people are just useless and shouldn't be teaching. I don't think that's the reality at all. If they were that useless they wouldn't have become teachers in the first place.

I think a big difference between here and my job in the UK is accountability. In the UK I had to continually justify my practise, demonstrate class progress, etc etc. I was held accountable for things I had no control over and things that, due to my insane workload, I had no hope of achieving. Teaching became a stress cocktail where all the BS hyper-accountability overshadowed what was great about the job. As a teacher you were never good enough no matter how hard you worked (and trust me, I worked hard). If you had a good lesson you were a good teacher. If you had a bad one suddenly you were back to square one and it didn't matter how experienced you were or how good all your other lessons were, that was it.
Here, accountability (at least where I am) is much more reasonable. I know my expectations and I know if I come in, do the work and help out that is good enough. I know my position as a native English teacher is different to the locals and other teachers so other people will have different experiences. Also the kids are generally better behaved here. It also helps that my workload is lower so I can produce better lessons and resources. It's easier to be a good teacher if you actually had the time to do it!

I'm sure the original question is in good faith but it misses a much wider societal problem about education is and what its for and what jobs are in general. It's part of us living in the neo-liberal hell world I'm afraid and I would need to be in a pub with a few pints in me to go down that rabbit hole. Overall I'd say its dangerous to start labelling people failures and more important to look at the broken systems that try to label them as such.


all of my friends who were teachers in the UK have quit too. they were very good at teaching, and some always wanted to be teachers since a young age. they pretty much say the same as you. i could certainly never be a teacher in the uk. the pay seems very low too, considering the working hours you need to put in


  • Piggydee
  • The Legend

    • 2716

    • October 15, 2013, 07:32:43 am
    • South Korea
Re: Failed Teachers
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2019, 12:48:36 pm »
I don't know about not becoming certified in their home countries but I have seen lots of news videos of teachers who leave America and opt for China or another Asian country because pay is too low, they are often pulling out from their own wallets to furnish and fund their classrooms, and the job ask way too much of you (after hours work, parents not satisfied with your style of teaching etc.) that a lot of American teachers feel the system has failed them and they either switch careers or move out of country.