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  • gogators!
  • The Legend

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Re: 50 years since the death of Dr. King
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2018, 05:02:19 am »
Everyone in prison's innocent, didn't you know?
Are you speaking from "lived experience"?


  • L I
  • The Legend

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Re: 50 years since the death of Dr. King
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2018, 06:34:35 am »
Eggieguffer, this group is saying only 95-97.7% of prisoners are guilty meaning between one in twenty to one in forty four might be wrongfully convinced.

Quote
According to the Innocence Project's estimates, between 2.3 percent and 5 percent of all US prisoners are innocent. The American prison population numbers about 2.4 million. Using those numbers, as many as 120,000 innocent people could currently be in prison.


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  • The Legend

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Re: 50 years since the death of Dr. King
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2018, 06:51:23 am »
The good news is, the number of Americans locked up is dropping every year. Now it's only 2.1 million total, meaning well under 1% of the adult population.


Re: 50 years since the death of Dr. King
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2018, 08:05:19 am »
Eggieguffer, this group is saying only 95-97.7% of prisoners are guilty meaning between one in twenty to one in forty four might be wrongfully convinced.

Quote
According to the Innocence Project's estimates, between 2.3 percent and 5 percent of all US prisoners are innocent. The American prison population numbers about 2.4 million. Using those numbers, as many as 120,000 innocent people could currently be in prison.

Assuming it's the maximum, 5% and all of them are black, that still leaves 35% of the prison population black people when they comprise only 13% of the population. That means that a further 22% of black people in prison must be innocent and should be released immediately. Otherwise it's proof that the US is institutionally racist.
There should be a lot more Asians in prison as well, since they comprise 5.6% of the population but only 1.5% of the prison population. Judges must have implicit bias when sentencing so this needs to be addressed. We need to get that figure up to at least 5%.

https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_race.jsp
« Last Edit: May 19, 2018, 08:41:07 am by eggieguffer »


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  • Hero of Waygookistan

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Re: 50 years since the death of Dr. King
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2018, 09:29:59 am »
"64 Years After Brown v. Board of Education, Integration Has Not Helped Black People....

"Yes, integration was supposed to make us look at communities more holistically and get a bigger picture of how we can interact together, but my grandmother always said, 'Integration was one of the worst things that happened to black people.'

"It has meant letting go of safe spaces for marginalized and systematically disenfranchised communities and forced us to acquiesce to dominant groups—in this case, white America. It has led to the denial of spaces that are exclusively black, and though attempting to create a better educational environment for black students, integration oftentimes makes that environment more hostile and is counterproductive to black people’s academic success.

"My grandmother shared horror stories about how she and her peers were treated by their white counterparts. We see that, even today, just the thought of integration makes white supremacy rear its ugly head—and makes some black people dilute their own blackness to better assimilate into white spaces, and to hopefully remain safe within them."
https://www.theroot.com/64-years-after-brown-v-board-of-education-integration-1826082674

So the solution is to revert to Jim Crow? As for "horror stories" the author, Preston Mitchum, is full of it. Blacks are safer in "white spaces". That's a statistical fact. Look at where blacks are most likely to be victimized by crime.


Re: 50 years since the death of Dr. King
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2018, 10:25:01 am »
Studies show almost 120,000 in jail are innocent.

Everyone in prison's innocent, didn't you know?

Don't confuse jail and prison.  Jail is for holding before a trial*, and prisoner is for serving time given on a sentence..  It is perfectly possible (and legal) for 100% of people in jail to be innocent.  If an individual is a flight risk, or a potential danger, then when bail is refused, they will go to jail whilst awaiting their court appearance.

*or maybe a short sentence (a few days or weeks)


Re: 50 years since the death of Dr. King
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2018, 10:46:34 am »
I was referring to the concept from popular culture

www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLMig9fTx6Y


Re: 50 years since the death of Dr. King
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2018, 07:36:06 pm »
"64 Years After Brown v. Board of Education, Integration Has Not Helped Black People....

"Yes, integration was supposed to make us look at communities more holistically and get a bigger picture of how we can interact together, but my grandmother always said, 'Integration was one of the worst things that happened to black people.'

"It has meant letting go of safe spaces for marginalized and systematically disenfranchised communities and forced us to acquiesce to dominant groups—in this case, white America. It has led to the denial of spaces that are exclusively black, and though attempting to create a better educational environment for black students, integration oftentimes makes that environment more hostile and is counterproductive to black people’s academic success.

"My grandmother shared horror stories about how she and her peers were treated by their white counterparts. We see that, even today, just the thought of integration makes white supremacy rear its ugly head—and makes some black people dilute their own blackness to better assimilate into white spaces, and to hopefully remain safe within them."
https://www.theroot.com/64-years-after-brown-v-board-of-education-integration-1826082674

So the solution is to revert to Jim Crow? As for "horror stories" the author, Preston Mitchum, is full of it. Blacks are safer in "white spaces". That's a statistical fact. Look at where blacks are most likely to be victimized by crime.

My Urban Politics professor gave a tacit endorsement of segregation. His view was essentially that a black kid could grow up and look at the window and see black doctors, black teachers, black mechanics, black artists, black lawyers, etc. and see a future for themselves. Now, that's all gone and it has been replaced by what was left and what's dominating on TV.

Not the most airtight of analysis (and I don't think he was truly advocating for segregation), but there was probably a kernel of truth in what he was saying that made you think (which was probably his goal).


Re: 50 years since the death of Dr. King
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2018, 07:43:31 pm »
"64 Years After Brown v. Board of Education, Integration Has Not Helped Black People....

"Yes, integration was supposed to make us look at communities more holistically and get a bigger picture of how we can interact together, but my grandmother always said, 'Integration was one of the worst things that happened to black people.'

"It has meant letting go of safe spaces for marginalized and systematically disenfranchised communities and forced us to acquiesce to dominant groups—in this case, white America. It has led to the denial of spaces that are exclusively black, and though attempting to create a better educational environment for black students, integration oftentimes makes that environment more hostile and is counterproductive to black people’s academic success.

"My grandmother shared horror stories about how she and her peers were treated by their white counterparts. We see that, even today, just the thought of integration makes white supremacy rear its ugly head—and makes some black people dilute their own blackness to better assimilate into white spaces, and to hopefully remain safe within them."
https://www.theroot.com/64-years-after-brown-v-board-of-education-integration-1826082674

So the solution is to revert to Jim Crow? As for "horror stories" the author, Preston Mitchum, is full of it. Blacks are safer in "white spaces". That's a statistical fact. Look at where blacks are most likely to be victimized by crime.

My Urban Politics professor gave a tacit endorsement of segregation. His view was essentially that a black kid could grow up and look at the window and see black doctors, black teachers, black mechanics, black artists, black lawyers, etc. and see a future for themselves. Now, that's all gone and it has been replaced by what was left and what's dominating on TV.

Not the most airtight of analysis (and I don't think he was truly advocating for segregation), but there was probably a kernel of truth in what he was saying that made you think (which was probably his goal).

Yeah, I guess a black president wasn't enough, just like all of the female presidents/prime ministers all over the world haven't been enough for the feminists. Just like black actors being overly represented at the Oscars and women being overly represented at Western universities isn't enough. There's still always 'a lot more work to do'. There's no ending here, Too many politicians, civil servants and activists' jobs rely on it.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2018, 08:14:58 pm by eggieguffer »


  • pkjh
  • Hero of Waygookistan

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Re: 50 years since the death of Dr. King
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2018, 09:27:47 pm »
Yeah, I guess a black president wasn't enough, just like all of the female presidents/prime ministers all over the world haven't been enough for the feminists. Just like black actors being overly represented at the Oscars and women being overly represented at Western universities isn't enough. There's still always 'a lot more work to do'. There's no ending here, Too many politicians, civil servants and activists' jobs rely on it.
So how many world leaders are women? Anything close to 50%?
How many women have full tenured positions in western universities? Anything close to 50%?
And blacks being represented at the Oscars? Anything close to 12%?


Re: 50 years since the death of Dr. King
« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2018, 10:22:25 pm »
Yeah, I guess a black president wasn't enough, just like all of the female presidents/prime ministers all over the world haven't been enough for the feminists. Just like black actors being overly represented at the Oscars and women being overly represented at Western universities isn't enough. There's still always 'a lot more work to do'. There's no ending here, Too many politicians, civil servants and activists' jobs rely on it.
So how many world leaders are women? Anything close to 50%?
How many women have full tenured positions in western universities? Anything close to 50%?
And blacks being represented at the Oscars? Anything close to 12%?

Yes, keep fighting the fight until every single section of society fairly reflects the racial, sexual, age and sexual proclivity composition of its citizens. This will of course lead to the perfect utopia with everyone happy and no one complaining that they got passed over for someone less talented.     

Re the Oscars the economist agrees with me, though of course with a caveat.

"In fact, as our analysis of film casts and awards shows, the number of black actors winning Oscars in this century has been pretty much in line with the size of America's overall black population. "

You should really start lobbying for Asian actors who have only got 1% of Ocscars despite comprising 5.6% of the population. Of course it could just be that they're more interested in other things but it's far more likely the Academy is racist, so get on to it.

https://www.economist.com/prospero/2016/01/21/how-racially-skewed-are-the-oscars
« Last Edit: May 19, 2018, 10:47:06 pm by eggieguffer »


  • pkjh
  • Hero of Waygookistan

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    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
Re: 50 years since the death of Dr. King
« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2018, 11:19:03 pm »
Yeah, I guess a black president wasn't enough, just like all of the female presidents/prime ministers all over the world haven't been enough for the feminists. Just like black actors being overly represented at the Oscars and women being overly represented at Western universities isn't enough. There's still always 'a lot more work to do'. There's no ending here, Too many politicians, civil servants and activists' jobs rely on it.
So how many world leaders are women? Anything close to 50%?
How many women have full tenured positions in western universities? Anything close to 50%?
And blacks being represented at the Oscars? Anything close to 12%?

Yes, keep fighting the fight until every single section of society fairly reflects the racial, sexual, age and sexual proclivity composition of its citizens. This will of course lead to the perfect utopia with everyone happy and no one complaining that they got passed over for someone less talented.     

Re the Oscars the economist agrees with me, though of course with a caveat.

"In fact, as our analysis of film casts and awards shows, the number of black actors winning Oscars in this century has been pretty much in line with the size of America's overall black population. "

You should really start lobbying for Asian actors who have only got 1% of Ocscars despite comprising 5.6% of the population. Of course it could just be that they're more interested in other things but it's far more likely the Academy is racist, so get on to it.

https://www.economist.com/prospero/2016/01/21/how-racially-skewed-are-the-oscars
So you'd rather upper echelon jobs be essentially reserved from people from the upper echelon? And in many cases aren't as 'talented', or 'smart', as the 20 other guys from the masses. Yes I'm sure all those executives at Goldman Sachs, and Johnson & Johnson, got there on merit alone.


Re: 50 years since the death of Dr. King
« Reply #32 on: May 20, 2018, 03:30:49 am »
Yeah, I guess a black president wasn't enough, just like all of the female presidents/prime ministers all over the world haven't been enough for the feminists. Just like black actors being overly represented at the Oscars and women being overly represented at Western universities isn't enough. There's still always 'a lot more work to do'. There's no ending here, Too many politicians, civil servants and activists' jobs rely on it.
So how many world leaders are women? Anything close to 50%?
How many women have full tenured positions in western universities? Anything close to 50%?
And blacks being represented at the Oscars? Anything close to 12%?

Yes, keep fighting the fight until every single section of society fairly reflects the racial, sexual, age and sexual proclivity composition of its citizens. This will of course lead to the perfect utopia with everyone happy and no one complaining that they got passed over for someone less talented.     

Re the Oscars the economist agrees with me, though of course with a caveat.

"In fact, as our analysis of film casts and awards shows, the number of black actors winning Oscars in this century has been pretty much in line with the size of America's overall black population. "

You should really start lobbying for Asian actors who have only got 1% of Ocscars despite comprising 5.6% of the population. Of course it could just be that they're more interested in other things but it's far more likely the Academy is racist, so get on to it.

https://www.economist.com/prospero/2016/01/21/how-racially-skewed-are-the-oscars
So you'd rather upper echelon jobs be essentially reserved from people from the upper echelon? And in many cases aren't as 'talented', or 'smart', as the 20 other guys from the masses. Yes I'm sure all those executives at Goldman Sachs, and Johnson & Johnson, got there on merit alone.

I interviewed with some merchant banks in my final year at university and I wouldn't say I was in the upper echelon. I certainly didn't have what it takes though, but I don't regret it at all. It's a shitty job. Highly competitive, long work hours and relentless pressure. A lot of people burn out.
.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 08:34:41 am by eggieguffer »


  • gogators!
  • The Legend

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Re: 50 years since the death of Dr. King
« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2018, 11:16:10 am »
Quote
As the legal scholar Michelle Alexander has noted, a larger share of black Americans are imprisoned than black South Africans were during apartheid. “A human rights nightmare is occurring on our watch,” she has written.

Human rights. Nuff said.


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Re: 50 years since the death of Dr. King
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2018, 04:13:08 pm »
Only in Amerca. Land of the free and the GREAT.  8)


Re: 50 years since the death of Dr. King
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2018, 06:45:29 pm »
Quote
Human rights. Nuff said.

Only if you have the thought processes of a child.

'Oh there are a lot of black people in prison, Ummm, I guess it must be due to racism'. End of thought.
'How about you look at the actual cases and why each of those individuals got locked up'? With nearly every crime committed there's an actual victim involved who could probably tell you.'
'I haven't got time for that, I have racists to expose.'
« Last Edit: May 21, 2018, 07:09:39 pm by eggieguffer »


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  • Hero of Waygookistan

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  • gogators!
  • The Legend

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    • Seoul
Re: 50 years since the death of Dr. King
« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2018, 10:42:17 pm »
Quote
Human rights. Nuff said.

Only if you have the thought processes of a child.

'Oh there are a lot of black people in prison, Ummm, I guess it must be due to racism'. End of thought.
'How about you look at the actual cases and why each of those individuals got locked up'? With nearly every crime committed there's an actual victim involved who could probably tell you.'
'I haven't got time for that, I have racists to expose.'
How about it?

Quote
In the 2015 National Survey on Drug Use and Health, about 17 million whites and 4 million African Americans reported having used an illicit drug within the last month.
African Americans and whites use drugs at similar rates, but the imprisonment rate of African Americans for drug charges is almost 6 times that of whites.
African Americans represent 12.5% of illicit drug users, but 29% of those arrested for drug offenses and 33% of those incarcerated in state facilities for drug offenses.

There's plenty more where that came from.



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Re: 50 years since the death of Dr. King
« Reply #38 on: May 22, 2018, 06:23:11 am »
Quote
Human rights. Nuff said.

Only if you have the thought processes of a child.

'Oh there are a lot of black people in prison, Ummm, I guess it must be due to racism'. End of thought.
'How about you look at the actual cases and why each of those individuals got locked up'? With nearly every crime committed there's an actual victim involved who could probably tell you.'
'I haven't got time for that, I have racists to expose.'
How about it?

Quote
In the 2015 National Survey on Drug Use and Health, about 17 million whites and 4 million African Americans reported having used an illicit drug within the last month.
African Americans and whites use drugs at similar rates, but the imprisonment rate of African Americans for drug charges is almost 6 times that of whites.
African Americans represent 12.5% of illicit drug users, but 29% of those arrested for drug offenses and 33% of those incarcerated in state facilities for drug offenses.

There's plenty more where that came from.

Quote
Actually, it’s possible for blacks to be no more likely than whites to use drugs but still get arrested more often for using them, even by scrupulously race-neutral police. That’s because blacks commit so many other crimes. If a black is arrested for robbery–and blacks are about eight times more likely than whites to be arrested for robbery–the police search him for drugs. If they find drugs they charge him with possession in addition to robbery. If he hadn’t got caught for robbery–or assault or murder or whatever it was–he probably would not have gotten that drug charge.

As I said earlier, the idea that blacks don’t use illegal drugs much more often than whites comes from surveys. But when you ask people if they take illegal drugs do they tell the truth?

As it turns out, there is scholarly literature on this. Researchers ask people if they have taken drugs and then take urine or hair samples to find out. And almost every time, blacks are a lot more likely than whites to say they haven’t taken drugs but the test then proves they were lying.

A 2005 study in the Journal of Urban Health, for example, found that blacks were ten times more likely than whites to lie about cocaine. Hispanics were five times more likely. When it came to marijuana, not one of the 109 whites in the sample lied, but one in eight of the 191 blacks lied.

A 2008 study of Vietnam-era veterans in the journal Addictive Behaviors found that blacks were more than 20 times more likely than whites to lie about cocaine, and twice as likely to lie about marijuana.

A 2003 report also in Addictive Behaviors surveyed 290 black men who were being treated for high blood pressure. Only 48 admitted they were using illegal drugs but urine tests found that 131 of them were. Forty-five percent were taking drugs but only 19 percent admitted it.

This behavior goes back a long way. In 1994, more than 20 years ago, a large study of young people, aged nine to 20, found that blacks were six times more likely than whites to claim they didn’t use cocaine–but have it show up in a urine test.

The Journal of Urban Health article I quoted earlier says this, and I quote: “the results replicate and extend a growing body of research suggesting that African Americans underreport substance use on surveys.” Underreport is a nice way of saying that they lie about it.


Re: 50 years since the death of Dr. King
« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2018, 07:43:31 am »
Here's another thought. A lot of policemen arresting black people for crimes are actually black/Hispanic themselves. Do these arrests also make it into the statistics proving 'institutional racism'. I bet they do.  Also, If the police make an arrest after responding to a call from the public surely the colour of the person who called the police should be taken into account as they are the ones initiating the process - the police just being public servants. I bet it isn't. Unless it's one of those rare, highly publicised occasions when a black person is arrested for something they didn't do and the person who calls the police is white.

The only real way to prove institutionalised racism would be to show the statistics of white cops arresting black people on their own volition, and without any clear reason who were subsequently released without charge, against the numbers of white cops and white people or black cops and black/white people.  (You probably don't need to bother with Hispanics and Asians as, let's be honest it's just about white people v black people)

Or the statistics of the number of black people arrested for a crime reported by a white person that later turned out to be false against the same cases of black people reporting other blacks or whites reporting whites.

I guess you could also make a good claim by showing the statistics for identical crimes committed by black and white people who received different sentencing. Though this would be virtually impossible due to all the other things that are taken into account when sentencing.   
« Last Edit: May 22, 2018, 08:08:24 am by eggieguffer »