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  • OnNut81
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1363

    • April 01, 2011, 03:01:41 pm
    • Anyang
Re: Anyone know information about Kaylee English academy?
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2020, 02:12:01 pm »


As a side note, MANY hagwons will reduce payment illegally when there are reduced schedules. So even though that's against the law, unfortunately it seems more of the norm especially now with Covid19.

POLY has had Korean co-teachers to teach together or part of the class, but it also depends on which grades and which branch it is, and there are literally 50+ POLY branches in Korea. I'm sure that some POLYs do, and some POLYs don't (like the bigger branches in Seoul.) Since POLY is also a franchise and the owner just buys the rights for the curriculum and recruiting, they like to implement some of their own ideas as well. Also, I'd like to present the opposite argument, that it does make fiscal sense, because a lot of times the Korean co-teacher is either a staff (that they force to do more duties) or someone that they are able to hire for cheap. I'll be using the word "co-teacher" as a teacher who comes in and teachers together, is in the class together, or takes over the class at some time.


But I think that the real reason why so many hagwons in Korea have Korean assistant/co-teacher is because the owner/director isn't able to speak English very well or is not very qualified to teach. So, having a Korean co-teacher/assistant gives them peace of mind since they are able to communicate with this teacher, and get an idea of how the classes are going.


Again, you need to quit while you're not that far behind.  The more you write, the less credible you're coming across. 

You were not writing about the situation during Covid19 in the instance above, so stop deflecting.  You say many hakwans reduce pay in non-Covid times when the schedule is less than full time?  That's simply untrue.  I have worked at six hakwans over the years.  I have NEVER encountered that where I've worked and I have never known someone who has had that pulled on them.  Plenty of other crap has been tried but I've never heard of a school readjusting pay as they go along.  I'm sure it has happened but it would be the exception that proves the rule.  Of all the tricks a hakwan tries to pull (not yours though) that has not been one I've heard of.  It's simply too hard to defend themselves legally on not paying what's in the contract.  Again, don't pat your school on the back for paying the agreed upon monthly salary despite schedule fluctuations. 

Again, you need to drop POLY as your example of schools that use co-teachers during class.  You keep insisting they do it, but I don't think you are familiar with POLY.  I worked at a franchise and with bi-yearly workshops and visits from the main office (dubbed Big Poly) they absolutely make the effort to ensure POLY franchises are following the set program and NOT deviating from it.  They come visit once or twice a year and sit in on a number of classes and speak with all the staff.  They don't just simply sell off the curriculum and let the school run how they want.  They are heavily marketed as fully immersed and having a Korean co-teacher would be the opposite of what the parents want.  There're not 50 shades of POLY.  They're stringent, and they broke off with my school when they discovered they were teaching TOEIC on the side.  They found out pretty quickly.  You need to follow the POLY model and that did not include co-teachers.  It would've defeated the immersion angle.  Also, since you don't actually know too much about POLY, the head office also does recruitment for their own schools and franchises.  I know a guy who was moved from a POLY owned school to a franchise when he renewed because he wanted mornings.  The franchises don't operate in isolation. 

You say many hakwans have assistant/co-teachers?  Again, not true.  The parents like to know there is a Korean assistant available if needed, but they're paying the money for the exposure to the native speaker.  They don't want their kids speaking Korean in most schools, but certainly not in class.

Honestly, I didn't have much suspicion of your school the first time but your dishonest efforts to defend have me thinking differently now.  You're not doing your school any favours by keeping this thread going. 
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 07:48:06 am by OnNut81 »


  • KSTeacher
  • Waygookin

    • 14

    • January 18, 2018, 11:14:15 pm
    • Cheonan, South Korea
Re: Anyone know information about Kaylee English academy?
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2020, 02:52:45 pm »
I think you are misinterpreting and missing the main argument of a lot of what I'm saying, so I would like to clarify once again:

Again, when I was referring to the incident that happened 4 years ago, the poster mentioned that he had to spent his evenings doing extra work without pay. I responded to this by saying that he was working less than half of his normal working hours, and he was being paid his full salary. I say this because he says he was doing extra work without pay, but he taught for maybe 3-4 hours and then just played on his phone instead of working and still got pay, and because he didn't do his job during the working hours, he had to do it "in his evenings without pay."


So the vast majority of EFL teachers in Korea come because they are unable to find jobs in their home country...but Gyopos usually come because they are serious about teaching and want to move up the ladder. There is nothing generally wrong with the first part of your statement...but when you go on to juxtapose it with the second part, yeah...sounds a bit problematic to me. Maybe it's just me and I'm just being sensitive...but then I remember you saying  So, colour me stupid, but it still seems like you are trying (deliberately or otherwise) to somehow link race/ethnicity with competence and passion for the job.

I think you may be sensitive about this. I have not linked race/ethnicity with competence and passion for the job, and that's something that you have done. What I said was that most non-gyopo teachers, while there are a few lifers, come to Korea to experience it, save some money, etc and leave within 3-5 years. Many gyopos come to Korea to stay for more extended periods of time, and on average stay longer than the average non-gyopo. This has to due with many factors, most of which is because gyopos are still ethnically Korean and are able to receive more benefits in Korea because of many reasons such as visa, having grown up in a Korean culture back at home, more likelihood of knowing the language and assimilating better, etc. Gyopo teachers are definitely not more "serious" about teaching, but about staying in Korea long term. Furthermore, this isn't if A->B, then C =/=B kind of situation. That is, logically the statement "gyopo teachers are serious about teaching" does not mean or imply that non-gyopos aren't.

But really, I think the miscommunication is due to the fact that I worded it "As a side note, it is for this reason that most academies in Korea usually pick either white (purely for image) or Korean-American teachers." It should have been worded as "As a side note, most academies in Korea usually pick either white (purely for image) or Korean-American teachers."

Your teachers are expected to teach 6hrs a day...and teach on average 3 classes a day. Why does that sound like your classes amount to 2hrs a class and around 30 teaching hours a week?

When I taught with GEPIK I taught 20hrs a week on average. The remaining 20hrs were supposed to be prep time. When I taught at a hagwon, I averaged 24 teaching hrs a week. The remaining 16hrs were supposed to be prep time. I currently teach 15hrs a week. For those 15hrs of classes, I end up spending an additional 35hrs a week average making materials for them. Granted it's not EFL, but still comparable in some ways.

GEPIK/EPIK is very different from a hagwon so it's not very comparable. Also, your experiences can be vastly different from the experiences that other people have. Our total teaching hours is 28.5 hours a week. The average teaching hours in a hagwon in Korea is around 25-30 hours/week. Poly can go up to 40. Our teachers are given 10 hours a week to prepare, and most finish it in half of the time. You are lucky in that you only have 15 hours of week of classes, but you spend 35 hours a week, so a total of 50 hours a week. In your GEPIK example you spent around 40 hours a week in class and in prep. Our teachers are easily able to finish everything within the 10 hours of preparation hours a week, and average around ~35 hours of teaching and preparation a week.

I know you're going to say "but we have a pre-prepared curriculum, so they don't need that much prep time"...which might sound reasonable on the surface, but then you start to realise generic pre-prepared plans are absolutely useless when teaching individual classes that have their own individual and group personality along with individual and group circumstances...and your teachers are supposed to dedicate 10hrs a week on average to prepare for that.

We make our own in-house curriculum, and teachers are given all materials they need for classes. We make our own reading books and our own workbooks. Teachers have had no issues preparing for their classes and their preparation is a guidepost on what to focus on, what to discuss, etc. We focus a lot on developing teacher skills during our training, as teachers should never be just following their preparation exactly and uniform for each student, but tailoring to each student. To be honest, it's not too hard to know what each student likes or dislikes, what speed they learn at, what their personality is like, etc when you have them for a semester. Any teacher worth their salt would be able to know these things within the first couple weeks of teaching that student. Preparation is to know what to focus on and to discuss in class, and developing teacher skills is how to interact with each student during class.


  • 745sticky
  • Expert Waygook

    • 880

    • March 26, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
    • Korea
Re: Anyone know information about Kaylee English academy?
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2020, 03:09:29 pm »
I think you are misinterpreting and missing the main argument of a lot of what I'm saying, so I would like to clarify once again:

Again, when I was referring to the incident that happened 4 years ago, the poster mentioned that he had to spent his evenings doing extra work without pay. I responded to this by saying that he was working less than half of his normal working hours, and he was being paid his full salary. I say this because he says he was doing extra work without pay, but he taught for maybe 3-4 hours and then just played on his phone instead of working and still got pay, and because he didn't do his job during the working hours, he had to do it "in his evenings without pay."

I'm gonna put this bluntly, I think you're lying. Frankly, I have a strong feeling that most of us do. Pretty much every time a hagwon screws someone over this is the cope. Keep pushing the innocent angel hagwon vs. greedy selfish foreigner narrative though. I'm sure that's gonna win everyone over. 

Your posts are significantly more legible than the usual hagwon defense, so kudos for that I guess. Ask your Director or whoever's making you sit around and write this stuff to give you a raise.




  • KSTeacher
  • Waygookin

    • 14

    • January 18, 2018, 11:14:15 pm
    • Cheonan, South Korea
Re: Anyone know information about Kaylee English academy?
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2020, 03:12:50 pm »
You were not writing about the situation during Covid19 in the instance above, so stop deflecting.  You say many hakwans reduce pay in non-Covid times when the schedule is less than full time?  That's simply untrue.  I have worked at six hakwans over the years.  I have NEVER encountered that where I've worked and I have never known someone who has had that pulled on them.  Plenty of other crap has been tried but I've never heard of a school readjusting pay as they go along.  I'm sure it has happened but it would be the exception that proves the rule.  Of all the tricks a hakwan tries to pull (not yours though) that has not been one I've heard of.  It's simply too hard to defend themselves legally on not paying what's in the contract.  Again, don't pat your school on the back for paying the agreed upon monthly salary despite schedule fluctuations. 

This is untrue. Many shady hagwons have reduced pay in non-Covid times for reduced schedules. Just because you haven't seen or experienced it doesn't mean it's not true. There are hundreds if not thousands of hagwons in Korea and there are posts about this all the time, that the hagwon is trying to do something illegal. These posts are very readily available in the online forums (reddit, etc.)

Again, you need to drop POLY as your example of schools that use co-teachers during class.  You keep insisting they do it, but I don't think you are familiar with POLY.  I worked at a franchise and with bi-yearly workshops and visits from the main office (dubbed Big Poly) they absolutely make the effort to ensure POLY franchises are following the set program and NOT deviating from it.  They come visit once or twice a year and sit in on a number of classes and speak with all the staff.  They don't just simply sell off the curriculum and let the school run how they want.

I think you have quite a bias because you worked at POLY. POLY having co-teachers/assistants wasn't the main argument. The main argument was about having co-teachers/assistant teachers. Also your experiences does not account for all of POLY in all 50+ branches in Korea. There are many examples online in POLY reviews online about having a Korean co-teacher. It may be different from the last time you were at POLY.

You say many hakwans have assistant/co-teachers?  Again, not true.  The parents like to know there is a Korean assistant available if needed, but they're paying the money for the exposure to the native speaker.  They don't want their kids speaking Korean in most schools at, but certainly not in class.

Many hagwons have assistants/co-teachers. There are hundreds if not thousands of hagwons in Korea. While many parents are paying money for the exposure to the native speaker as you say, that is also always not true. This has a lot to do with the financial ability of the parents. If you had only worked in POLY or a school in Seoul, there is a confirmation bias because those are the parents who are able to afford the classes with a native teacher. Unfortunately, in the poorer parts of Korea (even in Seoul) and in more rural areas, having a NET is not really feasible because students normally have lower English ability. A lot of times, parents feel that their money is wasted when their student can't understand what's going on in classes, so many hagwons have Korean assistant/co-teachers. Also, many parents just want their students to be able to learn basic English, even if it's just from a Korean teacher. That's why there are so many gongbu-bangs that just have a Korean teacher teaching English. I'm referring to the neighborhood hagwons, and not the big chain/franchises.

I think the main source of our miscommunication is the word "many". When I use the word many, I am using it to describe a numerical value, but I think you are reading it as a % value. Of course %-wise the number of hagwons with Korean assistants/co-teachers is not large.


  • 745sticky
  • Expert Waygook

    • 880

    • March 26, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
    • Korea
Re: Anyone know information about Kaylee English academy?
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2020, 03:19:34 pm »
I think the main source of our miscommunication is the word "many". When I use the word many, I am using it to describe a numerical value, but I think you are reading it as a % value. Of course %-wise the number of hagwons with Korean assistants/co-teachers is not large.

If %-wise the number of hagwons with Korean assistants/co-teachers is not large, using the word "many" doesn't make sense regardless how you spin it. Also, when describing numerical values, you usually use numbers, no?

I think the word you were looking for is some.



  • KSTeacher
  • Waygookin

    • 14

    • January 18, 2018, 11:14:15 pm
    • Cheonan, South Korea
Re: Anyone know information about Kaylee English academy?
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2020, 03:26:58 pm »
I'm gonna put this bluntly, I think you're lying. Frankly, I have a strong feeling that most of us do. Pretty much every time a hagwon screws someone over this is the cope. Keep pushing the innocent angel hagwon vs. greedy selfish foreigner narrative though. I'm sure that's gonna win everyone over. 

Your posts are significantly more legible than the usual hagwon defense, so kudos for that I guess. Ask your Director or whoever's making you sit around and write this stuff to give you a raise.

That's fine, everyone has a right to their own opinions. I also haven't been trying to persuade anyone, but to use this as a platform to present our side of the story. I understand, it's easy to take the side and accept the narrative of the disgruntled teacher, especially on teacher-centric forums. There are a lot of shady hagwons that consistently try to screw over their teachers, and at the same time teachers who are happy don't really post about it online. Also, borrowing your words, pretty much every time a teacher is disgruntled, they keep pushing the innocent angel I did nothing wrong attitude vs the greedy selfish hagwon narrative. In a lot of reviews, the hagwon normally has no chance to say their side or their version of the story. So, I respond in this thread to try to give an objective and factual account of what happened and our side of the story. In the end, I want to use this as a way to share the full story.

Finally, we connect prospective teachers with current teachers who want to learn more about our school, and let those who are already in Korea visit the school to see what the working environment is like, how the teachers are like, and how the students are like. In the end, prospective teachers are able to decide which narrative to believe in for themselves.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2020, 03:40:05 pm by KSTeacher »


  • HappyPlanetAbuser
  • Super Waygook

    • 263

    • May 30, 2019, 11:30:16 pm
    • in my car polluting your air
    more
Re: Anyone know information about Kaylee English academy?
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2020, 12:44:32 am »
I can totally understand wanting to set things straight if you felt someone you cared about was wronged and if anything, he is quite adamant in his claims so that would all aim at him having a sense this Kaylee school had been wronged inappropriately.

I know I would defend my employer if anyone online would insist on spreading a false representation of things. 
Who's ready for another 4 years of Trump 2020!


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 4231

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: Anyone know information about Kaylee English academy?
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2020, 03:01:37 am »
I think you are misinterpreting and missing the main argument of a lot of what I'm saying, so I would like to clarify once again:

Again, when I was referring to the incident that happened 4 years ago, the poster mentioned that he had to spent his evenings doing extra work without pay. I responded to this by saying that he was working less than half of his normal working hours, and he was being paid his full salary. I say this because he says he was doing extra work without pay, but he taught for maybe 3-4 hours and then just played on his phone instead of working and still got pay, and because he didn't do his job during the working hours, he had to do it "in his evenings without pay."

Then your response should have been along the lines of "the teacher had 4 hours of classes  out of an 8hr work day, and chose to do something else instead of planning". There should have been absolutely zero mention of pay, because as far as everyone here is concerned, the teacher was contractually entitled to his/her full day's pay even if they taught 0 classes on that day.

The bragging of your teachers receiving full time pay for teaching 3-4hrs out of an 8hr workday smacks of an employer expecting to be thanked for simply following the terms of the contract they willingly signed.

I think you may be sensitive about this. I have not linked race/ethnicity with competence and passion for the job, and that's something that you have done. What I said was that most non-gyopo teachers, while there are a few lifers, come to Korea to experience it, save some money, etc and leave within 3-5 years. Many gyopos come to Korea to stay for more extended periods of time, and on average stay longer than the average non-gyopo. This has to due with many factors, most of which is because gyopos are still ethnically Korean and are able to receive more benefits in Korea because of many reasons such as visa, having grown up in a Korean culture back at home, more likelihood of knowing the language and assimilating better, etc. Gyopo teachers are definitely not more "serious" about teaching, but about staying in Korea long term. Furthermore, this isn't if A->B, then C =/=B kind of situation. That is, logically the statement "gyopo teachers are serious about teaching" does not mean or imply that non-gyopos aren't.

But really, I think the miscommunication is due to the fact that I worded it "As a side note, it is for this reason that most academies in Korea usually pick either white (purely for image) or Korean-American teachers." It should have been worded as "As a side note, most academies in Korea usually pick either white (purely for image) or Korean-American teachers."

In that case, your school should have saved yourselves a ton of hassle and signed up a Gyopo then. I know hindsight is 20/20, but I'm willing to bet you were aware of your perceptions of the differences between Gyopo and non-Gyopo teachers before hiring the non-Gyopo teacher. At the end of the day, your school took a punt on a stranger on the other side of the world (and vice versa)...the experiment failed.

This has nothing to do with the Gyoponess or non-Gyoponess of the teacher at hand. Instead, it has everything to do with the two parties involved and the steps they took (or missed) that caused the relationship to fail. Talking about how Gyopos adjust better to Korea just smacks of trying to push the blame elsewhere.

GEPIK/EPIK is very different from a hagwon so it's not very comparable. Also, your experiences can be vastly different from the experiences that other people have. Our total teaching hours is 28.5 hours a week. The average teaching hours in a hagwon in Korea is around 25-30 hours/week. Poly can go up to 40. Our teachers are given 10 hours a week to prepare, and most finish it in half of the time. You are lucky in that you only have 15 hours of week of classes, but you spend 35 hours a week, so a total of 50 hours a week. In your GEPIK example you spent around 40 hours a week in class and in prep. Our teachers are easily able to finish everything within the 10 hours of preparation hours a week, and average around ~35 hours of teaching and preparation a week.

I don't get paid an EFL salary, so me working 50hrs a week is a sacrifice I'm willing to make for my current pay level and the future career prospects that will come from this. In fact, I'm willing to bet your school wouldn't even want to think of hiring a teacher on my current salary, because there are thousands of others willing to do the job for half the price. My current 15 teaching hours a week is a far heavier workload than any single teaching job I had in Korea.

I don't know about other teachers...but like I said before, kudos to them if they are truly happy with their work schedule at your school.

We make our own in-house curriculum, and teachers are given all materials they need for classes. We make our own reading books and our own workbooks. Teachers have had no issues preparing for their classes and their preparation is a guidepost on what to focus on, what to discuss, etc. We focus a lot on developing teacher skills during our training, as teachers should never be just following their preparation exactly and uniform for each student, but tailoring to each student. To be honest, it's not too hard to know what each student likes or dislikes, what speed they learn at, what their personality is like, etc when you have them for a semester. Any teacher worth their salt would be able to know these things within the first couple weeks of teaching that student. Preparation is to know what to focus on and to discuss in class, and developing teacher skills is how to interact with each student during class.

I mostly agree with you on that  :wink:


  • KSTeacher
  • Waygookin

    • 14

    • January 18, 2018, 11:14:15 pm
    • Cheonan, South Korea
Re: Anyone know information about Kaylee English academy?
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2020, 06:59:47 am »
Then your response should have been along the lines of "the teacher had 4 hours of classes  out of an 8hr work day, and chose to do something else instead of planning". There should have been absolutely zero mention of pay, because as far as everyone here is concerned, the teacher was contractually entitled to his/her full day's pay even if they taught 0 classes on that day.
That is correct, but I was referring to him talking about having to do extra work with no pay. In the time that he didn't have classes, he was given more preparation time where he was to prepare for all of his classes, but he just used that time to play on his phone unfortunately. So I wanted to say it was unfairly mentioned when he said he had extra evening work with no pay.

In that case, your school should have saved yourselves a ton of hassle and signed up a Gyopo then. I know hindsight is 20/20, but I'm willing to bet you were aware of your perceptions of the differences between Gyopo and non-Gyopo teachers before hiring the non-Gyopo teacher.

That is true, but 4 years ago when we had just recently opened, we had little choice in our hiring pool, as recruiters also want to connect teachers with well established schools. Since then, we have had many Korean-American and Canadians, teachers from the UK and many non-gyopo Americans.

I don't get paid an EFL salary, so me working 50hrs a week is a sacrifice I'm willing to make for my current pay level and the future career prospects that will come from this. In fact, I'm willing to bet your school wouldn't even want to think of hiring a teacher on my current salary, because there are thousands of others willing to do the job for half the price. My current 15 teaching hours a week is a far heavier workload than any single teaching job I had in Korea.

I'm glad you found a position you like. Based on what you are saying, working 15 hours a week with 4-5m salary, you must be in R&D, teaching in International School, or teaching in University. Huge respect for that.


I mostly agree with you on that  :wink:

I think we agree on a lot of points, but it was just the choice of wording that may have caused some misunderstanding.

But like I mentioned, we connect prospective teachers with current teachers who want to learn more about our school. We also invite those who are already in Korea to visit the school to see what the working environment is like, how the teachers are like, and how the students are like. In the end, prospective teachers are able to decide which narrative to believe in for themselves.


  • OnNut81
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1363

    • April 01, 2011, 03:01:41 pm
    • Anyang
Re: Anyone know information about Kaylee English academy?
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2020, 08:11:18 am »
This is untrue. Many shady hagwons have reduced pay in non-Covid times for reduced schedules. Just because you haven't seen or experienced it doesn't mean it's not true. There are hundreds if not thousands of hagwons in Korea and there are posts about this all the time, that the hagwon is trying to do something illegal. These posts are very readily available in the online forums (reddit, etc.)

I think you have quite a bias because you worked at POLY. POLY having co-teachers/assistants wasn't the main argument. The main argument was about having co-teachers/assistant teachers. Also your experiences does not account for all of POLY in all 50+ branches in Korea. There are many examples online in POLY reviews online about having a Korean co-teacher. It may be different from the last time you were at POLY.

Many hagwons have assistants/co-teachers. There are hundreds if not thousands of hagwons in Korea. While many parents are paying money for the exposure to the native speaker as you say, that is also always not true. This has a lot to do with the financial ability of the parents. If you had only worked in POLY or a school in Seoul, there is a confirmation bias because those are the parents who are able to afford the classes with a native teacher. Unfortunately, in the poorer parts of Korea (even in Seoul) and in more rural areas, having a NET is not really feasible because students normally have lower English ability. A lot of times, parents feel that their money is wasted when their student can't understand what's going on in classes, so many hagwons have Korean assistant/co-teachers. Also, many parents just want their students to be able to learn basic English, even if it's just from a Korean teacher. That's why there are so many gongbu-bangs that just have a Korean teacher teaching English. I'm referring to the neighborhood hagwons, and not the big chain/franchises.

I think the main source of our miscommunication is the word "many". When I use the word many, I am using it to describe a numerical value, but I think you are reading it as a % value. Of course %-wise the number of hagwons with Korean assistants/co-teachers is not large.

To be clear, when you use the word "many" you're lying.  That's more succinct.  Most hakwans that have NETs do not use a co-teacher in the class when the NET is teaching.  The more you try to say there are "many" that do, the more it's clear you're just spinning a theory because you know I can't possibly say that I have personal knowledge of all hakwans. But it goes against the grain of hakwans that employ native speakers to also have a Korean co-teacher teaching the class at the same time. 

Ok, I have knowledge of POLY and different branches of POLY that friends continued to work at during the years.  No one has ever heard of A POLY class that has both a NET and a Korean co-teacher but since you insist there are some please provide just ONE branch name that does that.  You brought up POLY initially and continue to say that some franchises do indeed have two teachers at the same time in a class so providing at least one school's name should be easy. 

Can you also just link one of these many reddit threads where teachers are talking about their hakwan trying to pay them less than their agreed salary because they weren't able to provide the teacher with a full schedule? I'm interested to read how that worked out.  Also, I didn't realise it was so widespread, but just a link to one thread where people are talking about this common issue will be fine. 

Look, there are sketchy foreigners teaching here, and your school sounded alright to me, but you're really not helping your cause at this stage.  Especially the fact that you've made clear your views on the advantages of Gyopos.  I guess it's clear who gets tracked for promotion at Kaylee English Academy. 
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 08:14:25 am by OnNut81 »


  • KSTeacher
  • Waygookin

    • 14

    • January 18, 2018, 11:14:15 pm
    • Cheonan, South Korea
Re: Anyone know information about Kaylee English academy?
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2020, 09:14:34 am »
Most hakwans that have NETs do not use a co-teacher in the class when the NET is teaching.  The more you try to say there are "many" that do, the more it's clear you're just spinning a theory because you know I can't possibly say that I have personal knowledge of all hakwans. But it goes against the grain of hakwans that employ native speakers to also have a Korean co-teacher teaching the class at the same time.

Just because you don't know something, doesn't mean it's not true. Many hagwons in Korea employ Korean assistants. I hope we are still using the same definition of a Korean co-teacher: a Korean teacher that is either in the classroom together, takes over at some parts of the class, or rotates classes with the NET. Many describes a numerical value while Most describes a % value. And I think I've already clarified beforehand that when I used the word many, it was a numerical value and %-wise it is obviously low. So yes, MOST hagwons with a NET don't use a Korean assistant in class, especially in larger cities. But from a hagwon point of view, employing a native speaker AND Korean co-teacher does NOT go against the grain. In fact, there are many advantages, especially for hagwons outside of the big chains/franchises and in areas outside of the big cities.

Many hagwons in the countryside/outside of the big cities or in smaller neighborhood still use Korean assistants, Korean co-teachers or rotate with a Korean teacher. This is because students have lower English abilities, and the role of the NET is to provide conversational classes and the Korean teachers teach English while explaining in Korean. And in this case, if I use the word MOST, it could be describing 70-80% of 5000 hagwons (random number of hagwons). When I say MANY it could be describing the other 20-30% which could be ~500-1000. 500-1000 is still a large number, which many people would describe as "many". In some hagwons, there are actually just one NET, solely for "conversation classes" and the Korean teachers do everything else.

Ok, I have knowledge of POLY and different branches of POLY that friends continued to work at during the years.  No one has ever heard of A POLY class that has both a NET and a Korean co-teacher but since you insist there are some please provide just ONE branch name that does that.  You brought up POLY initially and continue to say that some franchises do indeed have two teachers at the same time in a class so providing at least one school's name should be easy. 

Sure, they are readily available at : https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Korea-Poly-School-korean-co-teachers-Reviews-EI_IE344917.0,17_KH18,36.htm. I provided my source, so now I ask you to provide an official source that says that there are ZERO Korean co-teachers/assistants in any of the 50+ branches of POLY in Korea.

Also, the main point was that there are Korean assistants/co-teachers in many hagwons in Korea. Some English hagwons only have Korean teachers. Unfortunately it seems you are very preoccupied about being "right" about whether POLY has Korean assistants going into the class or not. For the sake of argument I'll say I was falsely informed about whether there are Korean assistants in POLY or not. However, that does not change the main argument that I presented.

The main argument was that many Korean hagwons have Korean assistants/co-teachers. If your knowledge of hagwons in Korea is only for the big chains and centered in the big cities, then it's understandable that you wouldn't know how many of the neighborhood no-name hagwons are being run, especially in smaller cities. There are more no-name neighborhood hagwons in Korea than all the chains/franchises combined.

Can you also just link one of these many reddit threads where teachers are talking about their hakwan trying to pay them less than their agreed salary because they weren't able to provide the teacher with a full schedule? I'm interested to read how that worked out.  Also, I didn't realise it was so widespread, but just a link to one thread where people are talking about this common issue will be fine. 

This is readily available with a quick reddit search: https://www.reddit.com/r/teachinginkorea/comments/bdil0j/is_a_pay_cut_legal/ https://www.reddit.com/r/teachinginkorea/comments/hijtlf/hagwon_employer_changed_my_contract_and_underpaid/
https://www.reddit.com/r/teachinginkorea/comments/gbx4u9/advice_on_reduced_hours_and_salary_due_to_covid/ And there are many more. This is a common topic that is discussed, that the hagwon is illegally trying to pay less than the originally agreed upon amount. I'm sure that some could even be found in these forums. This was especially big when coronavirus started to shut down schools and many teachers were telling their salary situation. I'm surprised that you were unaware of this situation, especially because it was also a common topic before the covid.

Look, there are sketchy foreigners teaching here, and your school sounded alright to me, but you're really not helping your cause at this stage.  Especially the fact that you've made clear your views on the advantages of Gyopos.... I guess it's clear who gets tracked for promotion

I think it's clear and generally acknowledged the advantages that Gyopos have when searching for jobs and opportunities in Korea (from the gyopo's point of view.) Since you have been in Korea for many years now, I think you also know the benefits that Gyopos get in Korea such as the amount of freedom they get because of their visa status, etc, and it's just something you don't like very much.

Let's be real, who normally gets promoted to management positions (not "Head Teacher") in a Hagwon in Korea? My experiences may be limited, but almost all of the faculty managers or branch managers that I've worked with or met from the big chains such as CDI, POLY, SLP, ILE etc have all been either Korean or Korean-American/Canadian. Most of those in the office side (R&D, Curriculum, Marketing, etc) of CDI HQ are also predominately gyopo or Korean. I know there are a few non-gyopo in owner positions such as the POLY in 강북 that delegate all of the tasks to the Korean/Gyopo staff. But for the most part, the management has to be able to interact with both the English teachers and Korean parents and staff and the usually Korean owner, so they often look for a Korean who speaks English well, or a Gyopo who speaks Korean well.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 09:58:26 am by KSTeacher »


  • OnNut81
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1363

    • April 01, 2011, 03:01:41 pm
    • Anyang
Re: Anyone know information about Kaylee English academy?
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2020, 09:42:24 am »
Just because you don't know something, doesn't mean it's not true. Many hagwons in Korea employ Korean assistants. Many describes a numerical value while Most describes a % value. And I think I've already clarified beforehand that when I used the word many, it was a numerical value and %-wise it is obviously low. So yes, like I said before most hagwons with a NET don't use a Korean assistant in class, especially in larger cities. However, hagwons in the countryside/outside of the big cities or in smaller neighborhood use Korean assistants, Korean co-teachers or rotate with a Korean teacher. This is because students have lower English abilities, and the role of the NET is to provide conversational classes and the Korean teachers teach English while explaining in Korean.

Sure, they are readily available at : https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Korea-Poly-School-korean-co-teachers-Reviews-EI_IE344917.0,17_KH18,36.htm. I provided my source, so now I ask you to provide an official source that says that there are ZERO Korean co-teachers/assistants in any of the 50+ branches of POLY in Korea.

Also, the main point was that there are Korean assistants/co-teachers in many hagwons in Korea. Some English hagwons only have Korean teachers. Unfortunately it seems you are very preoccupied about being "right" about whether POLY has Korean assistants going into the class or not. The main argument was that many Korean hagwons have Korean assistants/co-teachers. If your knowledge of hagwons in Korea is only for the big chains and centered in the big cities, then it's understandable that you wouldn't know how many of the neighborhood no-name hagwons are being run, especially in smaller cities.

This is readily available with a quick reddit search: https://www.reddit.com/r/teachinginkorea/comments/bdil0j/is_a_pay_cut_legal/ https://www.reddit.com/r/teachinginkorea/comments/hijtlf/hagwon_employer_changed_my_contract_and_underpaid/
https://www.reddit.com/r/teachinginkorea/comments/gbx4u9/advice_on_reduced_hours_and_salary_due_to_covid/ And there are many more.

I think it's clear and generally acknowledged the advantages that Gyopos have when searching for jobs in Korea. Look, just the fact that you continue to use the term "hakwan" tells me all I need to know about how well you know about Korea and the language, especially since you have been teaching here for so long.

The fact that I use the word hakwan tells you all you need to know?  Really?  That's amazing.  You're really stretching it thin now.  Getting into semantics and trying to get personal is a sure sign sign you're just spinning your wheels now. 

I notice how you've gradually gone to discussing your school, and POLY and then have now moved on to rural hakwans to make your point.  Most schools that have native teachers do not employ a Korean co-teacher to stay in the class at the same time and translate for the native speaker.  That's not the point of having a native speaker.  You've now started going on about other ways a school could use a Korean teacher but that's NOT what we've been talking about.  You have been making the claim that POLY and in your words "many" schools have co-teaching going on in the private sector.  This is not the case in most schools.  Hilariously, you're so committed to going down this road you've actually tried to say that the word many can be construed in multiple ways.  No, many means many and horsesh*t means horsesh*t. 

And I guess you're hoping that just putting the link to POLY school would be enough and that no one would bother clicking on it.  I clicked on and read the first reviews. Didn't see a single mention of a co-teacher.  It's just reviews on working at a POLY school. Again, POLY markets its program to returnees and gifted & talented students.  They don't use co-teaching in the classroom.  I'm really at a loss as to why you continue to double down on that.  If there is a POLY school somewhere that does do that they are not following the system and are an absolute exception.  I will wait for you to tell me that  ........ branch has Korean teachers and native speakers in the class at the same time (despite the strict no Korean at any time rule) instead of  just linking to a thread discussing the long hours and general teaching conditions at a POLY.


Re: Anyone know information about Kaylee English academy?
« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2020, 09:44:06 am »
Just because you don't know something, doesn't mean it's not true. Many hagwons in Korea employ Korean assistants. Many describes a numerical value while Most describes a % value. And I think I've already clarified beforehand that when I used the word many, it was a numerical value and %-wise it is obviously low. So yes, like I said before most hagwons with a NET don't use a Korean assistant in class, especially in larger cities. However, hagwons in the countryside/outside of the big cities or in smaller neighborhood use Korean assistants, Korean co-teachers or rotate with a Korean teacher. This is because students have lower English abilities, and the role of the NET is to provide conversational classes and the Korean teachers teach English while explaining in Korean.

Sure, they are readily available at : https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Korea-Poly-School-korean-co-teachers-Reviews-EI_IE344917.0,17_KH18,36.htm. I provided my source, so now I ask you to provide an official source that says that there are ZERO Korean co-teachers/assistants in any of the 50+ branches of POLY in Korea.

Also, the main point was that there are Korean assistants/co-teachers in many hagwons in Korea. Some English hagwons only have Korean teachers. Unfortunately it seems you are very preoccupied about being "right" about whether POLY has Korean assistants going into the class or not. The main argument was that many Korean hagwons have Korean assistants/co-teachers. If your knowledge of hagwons in Korea is only for the big chains and centered in the big cities, then it's understandable that you wouldn't know how many of the neighborhood no-name hagwons are being run, especially in smaller cities.

This is readily available with a quick reddit search: https://www.reddit.com/r/teachinginkorea/comments/bdil0j/is_a_pay_cut_legal/ https://www.reddit.com/r/teachinginkorea/comments/hijtlf/hagwon_employer_changed_my_contract_and_underpaid/
https://www.reddit.com/r/teachinginkorea/comments/gbx4u9/advice_on_reduced_hours_and_salary_due_to_covid/ And there are many more.

I think it's clear and generally acknowledged the advantages that Gyopos have when searching for jobs in Korea. Look, just the fact that you continue to use the term "hakwan" tells me all I need to know about how well you know about Korea and the language, especially since you have been teaching here for so long.

This is a bad look for you. What a mess. This thread should be enough to put anyone off working for you if they do their due diligence and attempt some research before accepting a job.


  • OnNut81
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1363

    • April 01, 2011, 03:01:41 pm
    • Anyang
Re: Anyone know information about Kaylee English academy?
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2020, 09:55:54 am »
This is a bad look for you. What a mess. This thread should be enough to put anyone off working for you if they do their due diligence and attempt some research before accepting a job.

That's the same thing I'm puzzled about.  No one had ever heard of Kaylee English Academy outside of the people that have taught there, but with this PR disaster people are going to think they might as well play it safe and just avoid the risk.  KSteacher doesn't realise they're not helping their school's image.  And with the comments about gyopos and the jabs at me for using the term hakwan I'm guessing this is one of those HAKWANS where having Korean blood immediately puts on you a different level to those "others."  Definitely seen that at other hakwans so I won't say that doesn't happen. 


  • KSTeacher
  • Waygookin

    • 14

    • January 18, 2018, 11:14:15 pm
    • Cheonan, South Korea
Re: Anyone know information about Kaylee English academy?
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2020, 10:23:06 am »
I notice how you've gradually gone to discussing your school, and POLY and then have now moved on to rural hakwans to make your point.  Most schools that have native teachers do not employ a Korean co-teacher to stay in the class at the same time and translate for the native speaker.  That's not the point of having a native speaker.  You've now started going on about other ways a school could use a Korean teacher but that's NOT what we've been talking about.  You have been making the claim that POLY and in your words "many" schools have co-teaching going on in the private sector.  This is not the case in most schools.  Hilariously, you're so committed to going down this road you've actually tried to say that the word many can be construed in multiple ways.  No, many means many and horsesh*t means horsesh*t. 

And I guess you're hoping that just putting the link to POLY school would be enough and that no one would bother clicking on it.  I clicked on and read the first reviews. Didn't see a single mention of a co-teacher.  It's just reviews on working at a POLY school. Again, POLY markets its program to returnees and gifted & talented students.  They don't use co-teaching in the classroom.  I'm really at a loss as to why you continue to double down on that.  If there is a POLY school somewhere that does do that they are not following the system and are an absolute exception.  I will wait for you to tell me that  ........ branch has Korean teachers and native speakers in the class at the same time (despite the strict no Korean at any time rule) instead of  just linking to a thread discussing the long hours and general teaching conditions at a POLY.

Actually, if you keep looking through the reviews, co-teacher is mentioned multiple times. However, I've already explained that POLY is just an example of a hagwon with a co-teacher, and in the end if I have been mistaken about POLY having a co-teacher in the classroom or not then that is my mistake. This is something that I've learned from speaking with staff I know who worked at POLY and teachers who were also at POLY. However, it doesn't detract from my original argument that many hagwons in Korea use Korean teachers in the classroom. This is especially true outside of the big chains/franchises and in more poorer neighborhoods.

This is a bad look for you. What a mess. This thread should be enough to put anyone off working for you if they do their due diligence and attempt some research before accepting a job.

There are a lot of disgruntled teachers on this forum, especially more so than on other communities such as reddit. I am presenting information about hagwons in Korea after teaching for many years and being part of management for many years. Everyone has a right to their own opinion and everyone has had different experiences.

And with the comments about gyopos and the jabs at me for using the term hakwan I'm guessing this is one of those HAKWANS where having Korean blood immediately puts on you a different level to those "others."  Definitely seen that at other hakwans so I won't say that doesn't happen. 

I'm beginning to feel that you have had bad experiences with gyopos in the past.

Let's be honest about the benefits that Gyopos get in Korea, of course these are generalizations and there are always exceptions:
1. Their VISA status allows them a lot more work freedom. They are able to teach English, AP/SAT, or even regular office jobs.
2. They get most of the rights as a Korean citizen.
3. Most gyopos are raised in a Korean household (yes, some are not) and understand the language and culture better and assimilate better.
4. Since Korean is the majority of the population in Korea, looking Korean also gives people a sense of familiarity that non-gyopos do not get, which in term helps with promotions, and interacting with Korean parents.

Definitely seen that at other hakwans so I won't say that doesn't happen. 

That is unfortunate that you have seen that happen. Never have I said in any of my posts that we prefer gyopos over other ethnicities or that they are better than others. I think you may be projecting your own ideas in your comments. In the past, I erroneously said "As a side note, it is for this reason that most academies in Korea usually pick either white (purely for image) or Korean-American teachers. " which I later clarified that it should have been "As a side note, most academies in Korea usually pick either white (purely for image) or Korean-American teachers." And this is true, hagwons prefer to either hire white teachers or gyopo teachers. I'll repeat once again, we have had great teachers from all ethnicities; both gyopos and non-gyopos alike.

I really enjoy working here, so I will keep on defending my workplace especially if people keep trying to give a false representation of things. Again, we connect prospective teachers with current teachers who want to learn more about our school, and let those who are already in Korea visit the school to see what the working environment is like, how the teachers are like, and how the students are like. In the end, prospective teachers are able to decide which narrative to believe in for themselves.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 10:26:46 am by KSTeacher »


  • OnNut81
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1363

    • April 01, 2011, 03:01:41 pm
    • Anyang
Re: Anyone know information about Kaylee English academy?
« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2020, 11:22:54 am »
Actually, if you keep looking through the reviews, co-teacher is mentioned multiple times. However, I've already explained that POLY is just an example of a hagwon with a co-teacher, and in the end if I have been mistaken about POLY having a co-teacher in the classroom or not then that is my mistake. This is something that I've learned from speaking with staff I know who worked at POLY and teachers who were also at POLY. However, it doesn't detract from my original argument that many hagwons in Korea use Korean teachers in the classroom. This is especially true outside of the big chains/franchises and in more poorer neighborhoods.

There are a lot of disgruntled teachers on this forum, especially more so than on other communities such as reddit. I am presenting information about hagwons in Korea after teaching for many years and being part of management for many years. Everyone has a right to their own opinion and everyone has had different experiences.

I'm beginning to feel that you have had bad experiences with gyopos in the past.

Let's be honest about the benefits that Gyopos get in Korea, of course these are generalizations and there are always exceptions:
1. Their VISA status allows them a lot more work freedom. They are able to teach English, AP/SAT, or even regular office jobs.
2. They get most of the rights as a Korean citizen.
3. Most gyopos are raised in a Korean household (yes, some are not) and understand the language and culture better and assimilate better.
4. Since Korean is the majority of the population in Korea, looking Korean also gives people a sense of familiarity that non-gyopos do not get, which in term helps with promotions, and interacting with Korean parents.

That is unfortunate that you have seen that happen. Never have I said in any of my posts that we prefer gyopos over other ethnicities or that they are better than others. I think you may be projecting your own ideas in your comments. In the past, I erroneously said "As a side note, it is for this reason that most academies in Korea usually pick either white (purely for image) or Korean-American teachers. " which I later clarified that it should have been "As a side note, most academies in Korea usually pick either white (purely for image) or Korean-American teachers." And this is true, hagwons prefer to either hire white teachers or gyopo teachers. I'll repeat once again, we have had great teachers from all ethnicities; both gyopos and non-gyopos alike.

I really enjoy working here, so I will keep on defending my workplace especially if people keep trying to give a false representation of things. Again, we connect prospective teachers with current teachers who want to learn more about our school, and let those who are already in Korea visit the school to see what the working environment is like, how the teachers are like, and how the students are like. In the end, prospective teachers are able to decide which narrative to believe in for themselves.


You're not really defending your school anymore, you're just trying to tell everyone that their experiences over the years don't reflect what most hakwans are like, but somehow your experiences are able to paint a complete picture.  We're either both uninformed or both accurate.  That, of course, is not possible seeing as we are making competing claims. Stick to talking about your school and not how it compares to the industry as a whole and you'll be on safe ground. 

Poly refers to the morning teaching assistants as co-teachers.  You have to get that through your head and put the Poly supporting example to rest.  You are the one that keeps using Poly as an example erroneously.  Don't try and make it seem like I'm nitpicking.  I've been telling you to drop it as evidence of your claim from the get go. 

I'm guessing  you're a gyopo yourself, even though your English is excellent, this kind of grammatical error tends be made by people who grew up in a home with English as a second language..."how the teachers are like, and how the students are like"  How can't be used in that situation.  You do the move the words around test and you would get "the students are like how?"  which doesn't work.  What would stand the test "The students are like what?"  Formal yet correct.  How is incorrect.  It should sound awkward right off the bat to a native speaker. You took a shot at my anglicized "hakwan" and how it was an indication of the kind of person I am, so I'm sure you won't take offence at me pointing that out. 


Re: Anyone know information about Kaylee English academy?
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2020, 11:32:02 am »


  • KSTeacher
  • Waygookin

    • 14

    • January 18, 2018, 11:14:15 pm
    • Cheonan, South Korea
Re: Anyone know information about Kaylee English academy?
« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2020, 11:49:39 am »
You're not really defending your school anymore, you're just trying to tell everyone that their experiences over the years don't reflect what most hakwans are like, but somehow your experiences are able to paint a complete picture.  We're either both uninformed or both accurate.  That, of course, is not possible seeing as we are making competing claims. Stick to talking about your school and not how it compares to the industry as a whole and you'll be on safe ground.

I understand that everyone has different experiences in Korea, and I tried to explain some of the things that I've experienced and seen around me. I moved from teaching in Gangnam to teaching in Cheonan so it was a really big eye opener for me to see other aspects of Korean hagwons that I didn't know existed. I believe that it is the combination of everyone's experiences that paints a more complete picture.

Poly refers to the morning teaching assistants as co-teachers.  You have to get that through your head and put the Poly supporting example to rest.

I've tried to move on from the POLY example and said I could have been mistaken, and moved on to other examples (smaller hagwons in more rural areas.)

I'm guessing  you're a gyopo yourself, even though your English is excellent, this kind of grammatical error tends be made by people who grew up in a home with English as a second language..."how the teachers are like, and how the students are like"  How can't be used in that situation.  You do the move the words around test and you would get "the students are like how?"  which doesn't work.  What would stand the test "The students are like what?"  Formal yet correct.  How is incorrect.  It should sound awkward right off the bat to a native speaker. You took a shot at my anglicized "hakwan" and how it was an indication of the kind of person I am, so I'm sure you won't take offence at me pointing that out. 

I am a native speaker, and I was born and raised in the US and came to Korea after graduating from university. I take no offense though, that last part I edited out but it was originally "there is no A in hak/g-won; in the won part, and the second character is pronounced as won, and it is the same won as in KRW, Korean Won. So hakwon would be more appropriate than hakwan (which would be Korean for student center (like in school).)" (Also the Korean I wrote came out in random symbols so I changed it to English.) In colloquial speech how and what are interchangeable. But, I was using How to describe the condition of the work environments and experiences, and not what to describe just the description of the work environment. But I also understand the point you are trying to make. I also started with what and switched to how for some reason, something that's not good English for parallelism.

So let me rephrase: We connect prospective teachers with current teachers who want to learn more about our school, and let those who are already in Korea visit the school to see what the working environment is like, what the teachers are like, and what the students are like. In the end, prospective teachers are able to decide which narrative to believe in for themselves.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 11:54:32 am by KSTeacher »


  • annataleen
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 607

    • May 02, 2014, 01:27:07 pm
    • Incheon
Re: Anyone know information about Kaylee English academy?
« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2020, 12:05:50 pm »
I am locking this thread, as it has gone way off topic.