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  • Cyanea
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1368

    • September 04, 2016, 01:48:24 pm
    • Las Vegas
Why were you non-renewed?
« on: September 02, 2017, 01:15:57 am »
Has anyone ever found out the real reason they got non-renewed?


There is something crazy-making about a school that always says you do a good job, that then suddenly non-renews you, without a word of warning and zero feedback.

Maybe for legal reasons they simply cannot say why (ie discrimination).

Well today i was told that I will not be renewed.


The final month is a drawn out slow process which is emotionally draining.
 
Ok great. So now I have a month of being increasingly ignored to look forward to.
Catch my drift?


Re: Why were you non-renewed?
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2017, 02:52:06 pm »
is english your first language?
Chris...you should put a capital letter at the start of your sentence.

I was non-renewed a few years ago. I went through the renewal process, and got top class results. I was being judged by 5 people, 4 of them gave me excellent results and the principal gave me bad results. I actually saw the score sheet. The open class went really well and i had a great mix of activities and the students were totally engaged and active. Obviously the principal wasn't judging me on my ability to teach. He noted in his renewal sheet that i had a bad attitude in general.
I had a good attitude to the students and co-workers, but i did in fact have a bad attitude to that old dog and i had let him know it in the months prior to the renewal. So that's why i wasn't renewed, because of the long standing cold feelings between us. He was everything i despised in an old fashioned Confucious minded pastport-less old fart, and i couldn't bring myself to kowtow to the old dog like everybody else did. As soon as he arrived in my school my manager (Korean) left her job because of him. Then the new manager was also treated badly by him, she even returned to our office in tears one day. How could i even say hello to a guy like that. So i ignored him when he greeted me and i acted like he didn't exist for about 6 months. He even called my manager and told her to tell me to say hello to him! So of course once that happened then i continued to ignore him. He organized a 'whay shik' (korean work dinner) for our English department and of course i was the only one who didn't turn up. I couldn't sit at the same table as him. Everyone hated him but still went (hypocrites!). I totally dissed him in front of his secretary one day when they were in the corridor and he shouted hello (in korean of course) and i just waked past like nothing happened. He was testing me and my disdain for him was obvious.

So i didn't get renewed and you know what, i ended up in a better place and i'm so happy i behaved as i did. I got renewed multiple times in my next place as there were no difficult people in management so i treated them with respect.

So the moral of the story is, your relationships with your coworkers and 'superiors' are probably more important than your ability to teach. That's unfortunate but true.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2017, 02:57:27 pm by pigeonfart »


  • stan rogers
  • Expert Waygook

    • 577

    • August 03, 2015, 04:16:11 am
    • Jeju Island
Re: Why were you non-renewed?
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2017, 03:32:15 pm »
There are only 2 possibilities. They are unable to renew or they are unwilling to renew.

Unable to renew could be for a variety of reasons such as budget cuts, a drop in enrolment, program changes, changes in class sizes, the list goes on.

Unwilling to renew means they think they can find somebody better. "Better" is a relative term and can mean many different things depending upon the employer. Finding somebody "better" usually means an employee has not met expectations, and that they believe more desirable results can be achieved with another person.

They tend to keep non-renewal notices to the last minute so as to not demoralise a worker and make a bad situation worse. In my experience I've seen people who were told they were not getting renewed start showing up to work late, slovenly dressed, drunk, unprepared and basically not giving a f###. So I understand why a boss remains tight lipped about a pending non-renewal.


Re: Why were you non-renewed?
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2017, 05:52:49 pm »
3 years ago Chungbuk decided to non-renew all the EPIK teachers who were on a Spring contract, allegedly because they didn't have any money due to the new free lunch program, and they did nothing to anyone on a fall contract. Unsurprisingly, all the politically-connected lifer teachers were on fall contracts.

I think Korean education officials expect all the EPIK teachers to leave after one or two years and they're shocked that anyone wants to stay longer than that. My theory is that they make up these "budget cuts" every few years so they can cull all the people who want to stay in EPIK forever. Korean employers fire Korean employees when they hit 45 after all, they see employees as disposable and do not want people staying around making more and more money when they could replace someone making 3m a month with a 6-foot tall blonde Canadian girl who will teach for 2.1m and will clearly be a much better teacher due to being a blonde female.


  • grey
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1536

    • April 08, 2011, 04:47:11 am
    • USA
    more
Re: Why were you non-renewed?
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2017, 10:38:56 pm »
is english your first language?
Chris...you should put a capital letter at the start of your sentence.

I was non-renewed a few years ago. I went through the renewal process, and got top class results. I was being judged by 5 people, 4 of them gave me excellent results and the principal gave me bad results. I actually saw the score sheet. The open class went really well and i had a great mix of activities and the students were totally engaged and active. Obviously the principal wasn't judging me on my ability to teach. He noted in his renewal sheet that i had a bad attitude in general.
I had a good attitude to the students and co-workers, but i did in fact have a bad attitude to that old dog and i had let him know it in the months prior to the renewal. So that's why i wasn't renewed, because of the long standing cold feelings between us. He was everything i despised in an old fashioned Confucious minded pastport-less old fart, and i couldn't bring myself to kowtow to the old dog like everybody else did. As soon as he arrived in my school my manager (Korean) left her job because of him. Then the new manager was also treated badly by him, she even returned to our office in tears one day. How could i even say hello to a guy like that. So i ignored him when he greeted me and i acted like he didn't exist for about 6 months. He even called my manager and told her to tell me to say hello to him! So of course once that happened then i continued to ignore him. He organized a 'whay shik' (korean work dinner) for our English department and of course i was the only one who didn't turn up. I couldn't sit at the same table as him. Everyone hated him but still went (hypocrites!). I totally dissed him in front of his secretary one day when they were in the corridor and he shouted hello (in korean of course) and i just waked past like nothing happened. He was testing me and my disdain for him was obvious.

So i didn't get renewed and you know what, i ended up in a better place and i'm so happy i behaved as i did. I got renewed multiple times in my next place as there were no difficult people in management so i treated them with respect.

So the moral of the story is, your relationships with your coworkers and 'superiors' are probably more important than your ability to teach. That's unfortunate but true.

Glad things turned out. It's nice to see someone sticking up for himself.
Ko fills half his luggage with instant noodles for his international business travels, a lesson he learned after assuming on his first trip that three packages would suffice for six days. “Man, was I wrong. Since then, I always make sure I pack enough.”
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  • VanIslander
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 2717

    • June 02, 2011, 10:12:19 am
    • Seogwipo, Jeju Island
    more
Re: Why were you non-renewed?
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2017, 02:57:12 am »
I was renewed at my first hagwon job in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006...

(I left mid-year because the job options in 2006 were INSANE due to public schools openings' competition meaning I could make a half mill more for one less day a week work!)

... in 2007, 2008 and 2009 I renewed...

(then my dad died and I made an about turn)

I resigned at a new job I had started in late 2009... in 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016... at the same hagwon job in Seogwipo on Jeju...

So, I have re-signed 14 times! (I think this is the one thread I own)

In 2017 I have started a new hagwon job on the mainland and a teacher is already talking about trying to extend my contract in 2-year chunks (he thinks it's possible).

Anyways,... I was non-renewed for the first time ever in April of this year (hence why I left Seogwipo, Jeju Island), and it came at a shock. The director had bought the hagwon while I was etaching there and trusted a local teacher who married a very lazy American hang-loose surfer guy and the director seemed to want to support them and they didn't like my 2-hour daily prep, biz-hustle attitude, start class within 5 minutes of start time commitment. After seven years at that hagwon, I was not renewed for an eighth year, and that couple could barely contain their excitement. Yay! they ghet to show up 30 minutes before class and chitchat and don't prepare and walk to the photocopier during class and not feel like they are doing anything wrong. The place is going to pot.

So, to recap: I was re-signed 14 times and not re-signed 1 time because the new director/owner was buddy with a Korean-American couple tandem who thought teaching was opening at page 1 on whatever day they got around to it and ending on whatever day they got around to it, and not bother reviewing anything or doing anything extra, and getting onto the next book (and liked Let's Go!).

Uggh.


  • Cyanea
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1368

    • September 04, 2016, 01:48:24 pm
    • Las Vegas
Re: Why were you non-renewed?
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2017, 01:00:08 pm »
So, to recap: I was re-signed 14 times and not re-signed 1 time because the new director/owner was buddy with a Korean-American couple tandem who thought teaching was opening at page 1 on whatever day they got around to it and ending on whatever day they got around to it, and not bother reviewing anything or doing anything extra, and getting onto the next book (and liked Let's Go!).

So what official reason did they give you for non-renewing?


The problem is, your next employer will assume you did something wrong.



When in most cases people get shunted on for arbitrary political reasons that have nothing to do with ones teaching performance.

Catch my drift?


  • Mezoti97
  • The Legend

    • 2697

    • April 14, 2011, 03:02:50 pm
    • South Korea
Re: Why were you non-renewed?
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2017, 07:56:34 am »
So the moral of the story is, your relationships with your coworkers and 'superiors' are probably more important than your ability to teach. That's unfortunate but true.

I agree with this.

To the OP -- have you tried asking your co-teacher/handler why you didn't get renewed? If you try asking, your co-teacher might be willing to discuss the reason(s) with you.


  • Pecan
  • The Legend

    • 3769

    • December 27, 2010, 09:14:44 am
    • Seoul
Re: Why were you non-renewed?
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2017, 08:55:38 am »
So, I have re-signed 14 times! (I think this is the one thread I own)
Sadly, no ;)


  • Pecan
  • The Legend

    • 3769

    • December 27, 2010, 09:14:44 am
    • Seoul
Re: Why were you non-renewed?
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2017, 09:08:05 am »
There is something crazy-making about a school that...suddenly non-renews you, without a word of warning and zero feedback.
As far as the labor law goes, you can not be dismissed without due process.

It sounds like you have been given "zero" written warnings/evaluations, etc., which just doesn't fly.

I realize there may well be more to this situation, but from what you have stated in this thread, it sounds like you have a case.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Why were you non-renewed?
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2017, 09:27:21 am »
As far as the labor law goes, you can not be dismissed without due process.

It sounds like you have been given "zero" written warnings/evaluations, etc., which just doesn't fly.

I realize there may well be more to this situation, but from what you have stated in this thread, it sounds like you have a case.
I don't think being fired and not being renewed are the same. Insofar as I know, one's employer doesn't really need a reason to not renew a contract. Even public schools can use the flimsiest of excuses to non-renew their teacher.

     I worked at an awesome school for 6 years. Unfortunately, after the 6th, they were unable to keep me: funding changes in my provinces mean that schools can only keep one contract English teacher, regardless whether they are Korean or foreign. Unfortunately the KET stayed, and I got transferred to other schools.
     Amusingly, the head English teacher felt incredibly guilty about having to let me go: she bought me a fancy dinner, gave me going-away presents, and wrote me a series of ridiculously glowing recommendation letters. I still go back there to teach all the seasonal camps etc.

The contract KET who stayed is a good friend of mine, and now I can pull out the "I'm-still-bitterly-angry-that-they-chose-you-over-me" card whenever I want to win an argument.  :smiley:


  • Kayos
  • The Legend

    • 2220

    • March 31, 2016, 07:13:57 pm
    • NZ
Re: Why were you non-renewed?
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2017, 09:30:25 am »
Back at the beginning of the year, I was not-renewed without given a reason myself. I wanted to renew too. My schools didn't do any open class for me, I had no warnings or evaluations done either. From what I understood, the enrollment for the year was a lot lower than the year I joined, so my school no longer wanted to be the contract holder; one of my travel schools wanted to become the contract holder of me, and tried fighting the provinces education office to let them rehire me; eventually got told no, because a replacement had been found.

Funny story, that replacement made the schools wait an extra month or so with no NET, after I left, by giving them a fake story about being injured, and then told them he no longer wanted the job after making them wait.


  • JNM
  • The Legend

    • 4898

    • January 19, 2015, 10:16:48 am
    • Cairo, Egypt (formerly Seoul)
Re: Why were you non-renewed?
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2017, 10:40:24 am »
So, to recap: I was re-signed 14 times and not re-signed 1 time because the new director/owner was buddy with a Korean-American couple tandem who thought teaching was opening at page 1 on whatever day they got around to it and ending on whatever day they got around to it, and not bother reviewing anything or doing anything extra, and getting onto the next book (and liked Let's Go!).

So what official reason did they give you for non-renewing?


The problem is, your next employer will assume you did something wrong.


As a former hiring manager, I can tell you that I would not assume that.

Contract work (and 1 year gigs, despite the legal status of employee) sometimes doesn't get renewed.  The contractor doesn't often know why.

If the question is "why did you leave?" the answer is "My contract was over."



Re: Why were you non-renewed?
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2017, 10:50:54 am »
There are only 2 possibilities. They are unable to renew or they are unwilling to renew.

All I can think of when I read this is Spock from 'Wrath of Khan' talking about the Reliant.
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  • yirj17
  • The Legend

    • 2782

    • September 16, 2015, 02:23:16 am
    • Korealand
Re: Why were you non-renewed?
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2017, 10:56:01 am »
So what official reason did they give you for non-renewing?


The problem is, your next employer will assume you did something wrong.


As a former hiring manager, I can tell you that I would not assume that.

Contract work (and 1 year gigs, despite the legal status of employee) sometimes doesn't get renewed.  The contractor doesn't often know why.

If the question is "why did you leave?" the answer is "My contract was over."

"Non-renewals" happen back home too.  My last job was at a university.  After I left, they decided to cut down the arts departments by "not renewing" contracts.  This peeved a lot of people who were on track for tenure. 

Ironically it was a liberal arts college.  :undecided:


  • Pecan
  • The Legend

    • 3769

    • December 27, 2010, 09:14:44 am
    • Seoul
Re: Why were you non-renewed?
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2017, 11:33:24 am »
As far as the labor law goes, you can not be dismissed without due process.

It sounds like you have been given "zero" written warnings/evaluations, etc., which just doesn't fly.

I realize there may well be more to this situation, but from what you have stated in this thread, it sounds like you have a case.
I don't think being fired and not being renewed are the same. Insofar as I know, one's employer doesn't really need a reason to not renew a contract. Even public schools can use the flimsiest of excuses to non-renew their teacher.
Sorry, but that doesn't jive with the law.

There is a distinction between not being renewed due to budgetary issues and not being renewed, but being replaced.

If the latter, the employer must show cause.

Why do you think they have the 80% score requirement for public school renewal?

If it wasn't needed, as you claim, they would simply do away with the hoop jumping and non-renew.

The fact is, they do NOT operate this way for legal reasons.


  • kobayashi
  • Expert Waygook

    • 988

    • August 18, 2016, 11:14:47 am
    • Nibiru
Re: Why were you non-renewed?
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2017, 12:44:02 pm »
this happened to a guy i know:

he transferred to a new school. the whole year everything was peachy. no arguments with the co-teachers or school management, no negative feedback about his classes, kids seemed to enjoy his lessons.

come renewal time he applies for renewal. gets told by the Office of Education his evaluation score was too low. he was completely schocked  since his evaluation at his previous school was above 90%, and he thought there were no problems at his current school.

turns out his main co-teacher gave him like 40-50% or something for his evaluation. no warning at all that he would get that low. so the Office of Education spoke to the school and asked them to change his evaluation to above 80% so that he could at least transfer but nope, co-teacher refused to do it. the guy had to leave the EPIK program altogether.

when i was having lunch with my co-teacher one day i mentioned that story to her. she told me that she used to work at the same school as that guy's co-teacher, and that that teacher hated foreigners and didn't think they should be in korean schools (or korea at all).

the last 3 NETs at that guy's school hadn't been renewed. since that teacher started working there.

moral of the story: you can do the best job in the world, never miss a day of school, make the kids love you, and you can end up not getting renewed just because of some racist korean who has all the power when it comes to your job.


  • Mezoti97
  • The Legend

    • 2697

    • April 14, 2011, 03:02:50 pm
    • South Korea
Re: Why were you non-renewed?
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2017, 01:51:30 pm »
The minimum evaluation score in order to be renewed may vary depending on the POE/MOE, but at one of my former POEs/MOEs, it was 85% (they raised it to 85% during my last year working for that POE/MOE).


  • Pecan
  • The Legend

    • 3769

    • December 27, 2010, 09:14:44 am
    • Seoul
Re: Why were you non-renewed?
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2017, 01:54:39 pm »
this happened to a guy i know:

he transferred to a new school. the whole year everything was peachy. no arguments with the co-teachers or school management, no negative feedback about his classes, kids seemed to enjoy his lessons.

come renewal time he applies for renewal. gets told by the Office of Education his evaluation score was too low. he was completely schocked  since his evaluation at his previous school was above 90%, and he thought there were no problems at his current school.

turns out his main co-teacher gave him like 40-50% or something for his evaluation. no warning at all that he would get that low. so the Office of Education spoke to the school and asked them to change his evaluation to above 80% so that he could at least transfer but nope, co-teacher refused to do it. the guy had to leave the EPIK program altogether.

when i was having lunch with my co-teacher one day i mentioned that story to her. she told me that she used to work at the same school as that guy's co-teacher, and that that teacher hated foreigners and didn't think they should be in korean schools (or korea at all).

the last 3 NETs at that guy's school hadn't been renewed. since that teacher started working there.

moral of the story: you can do the best job in the world, never miss a day of school, make the kids love you, and you can end up not getting renewed just because of some racist korean who has all the power when it comes to your job.
I know of a few of these types of cases, as well.

The NET should be allowed to toss the lowest evaluation, especially when only one evaluation will tank the average score and the tactic being used is so blatantly obvious.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Why were you non-renewed?
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2017, 02:15:32 pm »
As far as the labor law goes, you can not be dismissed without due process.

It sounds like you have been given "zero" written warnings/evaluations, etc., which just doesn't fly.

I realize there may well be more to this situation, but from what you have stated in this thread, it sounds like you have a case.
I don't think being fired and not being renewed are the same. Insofar as I know, one's employer doesn't really need a reason to not renew a contract. Even public schools can use the flimsiest of excuses to non-renew their teacher.
Sorry, but that doesn't jive with the law.

There is a distinction between not being renewed due to budgetary issues and not being renewed, but being replaced.

If the latter, the employer must show cause.
Why do you think they have the 80% score requirement for public school renewal?
If it wasn't needed, as you claim, they would simply do away with the hoop jumping and non-renew.
The fact is, they do NOT operate this way for legal reasons.
You're 100% correct.
I apologize: I should've been more specific.
A school doesn't really need much of a reason to not renew a NET at that school. They can cite the dumbest reasons and have their NET transferred to a different school in the province without having to give warnings etc.
    The NET at the high-school adjacent to my old middle school was tossed out (transferred) on the thinnest of pretexts (his main coworker didn't like his teaching style). I've heard plenty of stories both online and in RL of teachers who had a poor relationship with their school who were subsequently ambushed by a surprise transfer.

    In order to get canned from EPIK entirely, I suppose that more hoops would need to be jumped through... but even then, if a school wants to get rid of a foreigner, I imagine that it wouldn't take all that much effort. Even the mildest of criticisms can be construed as a verbal warning, and a seemingly innocuous memo can later reappear as evidence of "a warning in writing".

Finally, as previous posters have mentioned, whether or not we get renewed depends on our evaluations. If we get a poor one -- for whatever reason -- there goes our renewal.  :sad:
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 02:18:12 pm by kyndo »