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  • Cyanea
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1368

    • September 04, 2016, 01:48:24 pm
    • Las Vegas
Many hogwons fail because...
« on: August 01, 2017, 08:58:29 pm »
1. They never seek feedback from their foreign teachers.



   +(add your own)
« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 10:21:25 pm by Cyanea »
Catch my drift?


  • CO2
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6172

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Uiwang
Re: Many hogwons fail because...
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2017, 09:22:50 pm »
Every student must have fun, even if that means catering to the one shitty kid , therefore compromising the education of the other 12 students who WERE happy until you changed the lesson.
The first thing to say is that this is definitely not pyramid selling, OK?


Re: Many hogwons fail because...
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2017, 09:53:50 pm »
They really have no business sense, they are just flying by the seat of their pants.

Spending money on window dressing like fancy story books to set in the lobby that are

never used.


Catering to misguided parents who insist that little Minsu should be in a level 6 class when he really should be in level 2.


  • raysmith
  • Super Waygook

    • 380

    • August 16, 2012, 07:01:58 am
    • Korea
Re: Many hogwons fail because...
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2017, 10:10:40 pm »
* The market may already be saturated in a particular area. 

If a town has 25 000 people and there are already three English language hagwons, a fourth hagwon may open with good intentions but it may simply be taking students from the other three hagwons.  All or most of the hagwons then get into financial difficulty and are forced to cut costs.  e.g. wages, new workbooks, student transport, teacher accommodation, photocopying costs etc.


  • Cyanea
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1368

    • September 04, 2016, 01:48:24 pm
    • Las Vegas
Re: Many hogwons fail because...
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2017, 10:41:52 pm »
* The market may already be saturated in a particular area.


So then you reduce your fees!


So many schools are just greedy.

Then they get undercut by a competitor.
Catch my drift?


Re: Many hogwons fail because...
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2017, 10:47:50 pm »
They implemented the feedback from their foreign teachers. :undecided:
« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 11:20:58 pm by donovan »


  • Pecan
  • The Legend

    • 3769

    • December 27, 2010, 09:14:44 am
    • Seoul
Re: Many hogwons fail because...
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2017, 10:52:29 pm »
A distinction needs to be made between the two main types of hagwons, the "cram school" hagwon and the "daycare" hagwon.

The successful cram schools turn away students that don't perform, while the daycare type take any kid with a pulse.

The competition for both types is fierce, yet uniquely different, as one succeeds via producing results (parents will accept their child's misery, if their scores are vastly improved), the other seeks to placate and please their clients/customers (learning is not primary objective).

Popularity plays a part as does reputation for both.  Fickle bunch...

Why they fail?

Have fun nailing that one down.

That said, I suspect the answer isn't much different from why any business fails.

Not really a mystery.


  • raysmith
  • Super Waygook

    • 380

    • August 16, 2012, 07:01:58 am
    • Korea
Re: Many hogwons fail because...
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2017, 11:03:48 pm »
* The market may already be saturated in a particular area.


So then you reduce your fees!


So many schools are just greedy.

Then they get undercut by a competitor.

What if they are already making a loss?  Will reducing their prices actually make them profitable?

I know of a hagwon that needed to have 100 students to break even.  They had about 90.  Will reducing fees make them profitable?   This particular hagwon chose to cut costs (and quality) to survive.


  • Cyanea
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1368

    • September 04, 2016, 01:48:24 pm
    • Las Vegas
Re: Many hogwons fail because...
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2017, 11:33:18 pm »
Every student must have fun

Nothing wrong with that.

Problem is too many schools stop the kids having fun. "Don't run!".."Don't play games!".."Don't make noise!"   don't don't don't.

Working for these places is a long list of "don'ts" as they gradually remove from you all the things you do to keep your classes engaging and entertaining.


An awful lot of hogwons don't realize that fun is the main reason students keep coming. Instead they take themselves too seriously.  Not realizing they're crushing the life out of the place.

Catch my drift?


  • CO2
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6172

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Uiwang
Re: Many hogwons fail because...
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2017, 11:38:04 pm »
Every student must have fun

Nothing wrong with that.

Problem is too many schools stop the kids having fun. "Don't run!".."Don't play games!".."Don't make noise!"   don't don't don't.

Working for these places is a long list of "don'ts" as they gradually remove from you all the things you do to keep your classes engaging and entertaining.


An awful lot of hogwons don't realize that fun is the main reason students keep coming. Instead they take themselves too seriously.  Not realizing they're crushing the life out of the place.

My point was that art my first job here, they had video cameras in all of the classes at Avalon. I was asked, "CO2 teacher, we saw that you're not engaging with X student. You must make sure he has fun, too."

What I didn't say was, "Well, he is shit. The other 12 students like my class. I've tried multiple approaches with him and he simply doesn't give a shit. Not only that, he actively derails 90% of the classes I have. If he's silent and does nothing, that's for the best. I simply don't have the time, nor the resources, to get through to him. He's an afterthought at this point."

What I did say? "Yes, director. I will do everything in my power to include X. Thank you for your insight."
The first thing to say is that this is definitely not pyramid selling, OK?


  • Cyanea
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1368

    • September 04, 2016, 01:48:24 pm
    • Las Vegas
Re: Many hogwons fail because...
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2017, 11:57:53 pm »
What I did say? "Yes, director. I will do everything in my power to include X. Thank you for your insight."

Well this is it, yeah. Directors/ managers aren't interested in feedback from teachers. In fact they take it as insubordination, a challenge to their authority. Information only goes one way in hogwons. From the top down.

Never mind that many of the teachers know more than the clueless managers/ owners (who simply buy a hogwon as a retirement project, without ever having had experience teaching or running one before).
Catch my drift?


Re: Many hogwons fail because...
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2017, 12:09:25 am »
A distinction needs to be made between the two main types of hagwons, the "cram school" hagwon and the "daycare" hagwon.

The successful cram schools turn away students that don't perform, while the daycare type take any kid with a pulse.

The competition for both types is fierce, yet uniquely different, as one succeeds via producing results (parents will accept their child's misery, if their scores are vastly improved), the other seeks to placate and please their clients/customers (learning is not primary objective).

Popularity plays a part as does reputation for both.  Fickle bunch...

Why they fail?

Have fun nailing that one down.

That said, I suspect the answer isn't much different from why any business fails.

Not really a mystery.

This + 1

Planning ahead is not really their strong suit.

The bad ones tend to treat all their teachers like slaves hangookin and Waygookin alike.
This may get things done in the short term, but in the long term you will lose good teachers and that leads to instability.



Re: Many hogwons fail because...
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2017, 08:50:30 am »
Every employee feels the business is doing bad because the boss doesn't agree with everything they say.
This is how stupid people think. Are you stupid?

What are the succesful hagwons doing? Are they all listening to their foreign teachers on every decision? Do all foreign teachers have the same ideas and advice?

The fact is that bosses get 50 ideas from 50 different people in 50 different directions. They take the advice they get and make decisions. Sometimes they get it wrong. Certainly they can set up systems for success, and the succesful ones have, but nothing is fullproof. It is COMPETITIVE out there.

Now you may very well have some good ideas. As many of us could be potential employees at your hagwon of brilliance, would you care to show us some lesson plans and materials you've developed OP? Or how bout some financial disclosure statements on investments and business ownership? When you offered these ideas did you draft a business plan and prepare a presentation? Or

If you don't have that to offer, why should any boss implement all of your suggestions? There is zero reason for them to do anything more than take your ideas under advisement if all you offer is a life's work of nothing.




Re: Many hogwons fail because...
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2017, 09:26:51 am »
Every student must have fun

Nothing wrong with that.

Problem is too many schools stop the kids having fun. "Don't run!".."Don't play games!".."Don't make noise!"   don't don't don't.

Working for these places is a long list of "don'ts" as they gradually remove from you all the things you do to keep your classes engaging and entertaining.


An awful lot of hogwons don't realize that fun is the main reason students keep coming. Instead they take themselves too seriously.  Not realizing they're crushing the life out of the place.

Then how do you produce results (that you are getting paid to produce) if the kids are running around screaming and destroying things in a lord of the flies scenario?


Re: Many hogwons fail because...
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2017, 09:31:16 am »

This + 1

Planning ahead is not really their strong suit.

The bad ones tend to treat all their teachers like slaves hangookin and Waygookin alike.
This may get things done in the short term, but in the long term you will lose good teachers and that leads to instability.

Same could be said about the myriad of restaurants that open up only to close 5 months later because they couldn't figure out how to do something as simple as making sure the glasses didn't have sawdust in them from trying to finish building the interior while simultaneously opening the store and serving customers.

It's just baffling to me why people try to run businesses here with no experience or interest in learning the industry.


Re: Many hogwons fail because...
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2017, 09:32:17 am »
I've never worked in a hakwon full time.  But, does the Korean teacher teach them grammar and other stuff, while the foreign teacher is fun time and an English experience? 


Re: Many hogwons fail because...
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2017, 09:33:35 am »
George Orwell's 1935 viewpoint on British private schools in 'A Clergyman's Daughter' is just as relevant to present day Korea.   


Itís the fees Iím after, not developing the childrenís minds.  Itís not to be supposed as anyoneís to go to all the trouble of keeping a school and having the house turned upside down by a pack of brats, if it wasnít that thereís a bit of money to be made out of it.  The fee comes first, and everything else comes afterwards.

There are, by the way, vast numbers of private schools in England.  Second-rate, third-rate, and fourth-rate (Ringwood House was a specimen of the fourth-rate school), they exist by the dozen and the score in every London suburb and every provincial town.  At any given moment there are somewhere in the neighborhood of ten thousand of them, of which less than a thousand are subject to Government inspection.  And though some of them are better than others, and a certain number, probably, are better than the council schools with which they compete, there is the same fundamental evil in all of them; that is , that they have ultimately no purpose except to make money.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2017, 09:35:33 am by eggieguffer »


  • Cyanea
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1368

    • September 04, 2016, 01:48:24 pm
    • Las Vegas
Re: Many hogwons fail because...
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2017, 11:13:15 am »

Then how do you produce results (that you are getting paid to produce) if the kids are running around screaming and destroying things in a lord of the flies scenario?

I can see you have never studied EFL. You have no teaching qualifications.

Go take an online course at least. Your questions will be answered.

Catch my drift?


  • cjszk
  • Expert Waygook

    • 894

    • August 23, 2013, 10:29:05 am
    • Seoul
Re: Many hogwons fail because...
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2017, 11:18:07 am »
Some people are forgetting something here...
Hagwons are businesses.
Successful hagwons don't need to produce results. They just need to succeed at marketing and raking in the cash.
It doesn't matter if the hagwon's results on the front of education suck, if they rake in the cash they thrive.


  • Pennypie
  • Expert Waygook

    • 862

    • July 26, 2014, 08:16:47 pm
    • Koreaaa
Re: Many hogwons fail because...
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2017, 12:17:59 pm »
Hogwon


**triggered**