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Re: Student takeover of Evergreen State College
« Reply #100 on: June 02, 2017, 09:43:25 am »
Innocent until proven guilty is fine. But if there isn't even an investigation, people have every right to protest.

Let's recap the story (the part people are referring to innocent until proven guilty): Cop allegedly beats up black kid who witnesses say wasn't even involved in any kind of incident. People accuse cop of racism and assault. University does nothing. People continue to complain. University does nothing. Another racially-charged issue pops up, making people angrier. University still doesn't investigate cop. Angry protest.

Why shouldn't people protest in a situation like that? The notion is absurd.

Protesting is fine.

It's just watching the videos showing the composure of the students is what's getting me.  They are just yelling things left and right, and while the other side is trying to respond, they just get cut off instead.  Play that on repeat and that's like 90% of what you are seeing.

Then students seem to make ridiculous demands of how someone should buy them gumbo? or they shouldn't be having any homework? blah blah blah.  If you replaced the whole other side with just standing mannequins, it'd be exactly the same.  It's not even a real conversation anymore.

Surely, we can agree that there is a right way to protest, and then there's the way we are seeing.  Having a proper gathering with speakers and a list of points to be addressed, clearly explaining incidents of discrimination that students want investigated, proposing meaningful solutions to the issues students are facing, etc.  The protest just didn't look like it was planned out with a whole lot of thought.

So you're saying these 18 year old community college students in 2017 are no Martin Luther King Juniors? Shock!


Re: Student takeover of Evergreen State College
« Reply #101 on: June 02, 2017, 09:44:53 am »
i know when i'm talking to people about this we just talk about what we know.  all we know are the videos being presented to us.  the videos show the protesters as an unreasonable group.  are there other sources, links, or witnesses that can show that they are trying to have a conversation?  i try to talk the news with a grain of salt nowadays.  but with all of the people there, someone impartial must have said something and i'm just not finding it.   im just focusing on the evergreen situation. 


  • waygo0k
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Re: Student takeover of Evergreen State College
« Reply #102 on: June 02, 2017, 09:56:25 am »
I have no reason to doubt the idea that non-white students have and continue to face discrimination on campus, and I have even fewer reasons to doubt that the professor feels the need to tell people how to react to the racism they face (surprise surprise!), plus his strong desire to tell the world about the "racism" HE faced when organisers of the university's annual event decided to flip the script.

But isn't that why we should have a full and detailed investigation to see if any of the students claims of discrimination are true?  We can't rely only on the "he said" or "she said" ordeal.

You are basically just jumping the gun here and saying just because someone is non-white, there's no reason to doubt them, and that no one could be making shit up at all, or misinterpreting certain things as discrimination.  For all we know, a non-white student could have felt they studied super hard on some exam, then when they got back their results showing a lower score than they expected, even if there was zero proof of discrimination at the time, they might claim discrimination as their default reason for the low score.

It's suppose to be innocent until proven guilty.  That's the system in place, and it's there for good reason.

You can't just be going "those kids probably got discriminated against, even though we didn't get a chance to do a full investigation yet to confirm".  That's the same as a federal judge watching a defendant come into the courtroom and thinking "that guy looks like he did the crime alright, but lets hear him/her out".  You are going into this with bias against the school instead of a neutral manner to search for the truth.  Basically, in the absence of reasonable proof, you defaulted to discrimination "must've" happened.  Do you think that's really fair?

You and others keep making the same assumptions, and the same (deliberate) mistake of trying to isolate these incidents from each other, when in reality, said incidents are intrinsically linked.

I said I have no reason to doubt the racism experienced by these students on campus, because a lot of the incidents have already been meticulously recorded here

I deliberately said "metaphorical *shoulder shrug*" for a reason in my previous post, because these deliberate and intentional attempts at deflection and ignorance when talking about racism, will only end up making the conversation louder. You cannot have a reasonable conversation with someone whose only intention is to deflect and deny.

Oh, and the campus made rules to punish students for protesting (cue in the "MUH FREEDOMZ OF EXPRESIONIZMS" crowd).

At the end of the day, no amount of deflections and denial will make the conversation go away.


Re: Student takeover of Evergreen State College
« Reply #103 on: June 02, 2017, 10:05:43 am »

You and others keep making the same assumptions, and the same (deliberate) mistake of trying to isolate these incidents from each other, when in reality, said incidents are intrinsically linked.

I said I have no reason to doubt the racism experienced by these students on campus, because a lot of the incidents have already been meticulously recorded here

Did it ever occur to you that those claims of racism and whatever were ignored because they were overblown SJW-millennial horseshit? As for the students brought in for questioning, we need the full report, not a one-sided account. There COULD be something there. This might also have another side to it.

As for Weinstein, he's entitled to his views and you can't disrupt his class.

There's also a history of anti-Antisemitism in America. Perhaps the students protesting Weinstein were motivated by that.

Quote
At the end of the day, no amount of deflections and denial will make the conversation go away.

At the end of the day, blaming whitey for everything will not improve your condition.


Re: Student takeover of Evergreen State College
« Reply #104 on: June 02, 2017, 10:17:21 am »
Oh, and the campus made rules to punish students for protesting (cue in the "MUH FREEDOMZ OF EXPRESIONIZMS" crowd).

At the end of the day, no amount of deflections and denial will make the conversation go away.

A bunch of crazy childish 18 year olds screaming and making hysterical demands for free food and no more homework is not a conversation. It's not surprising that the university has made rules to curb such behaviour in the future.


Re: Student takeover of Evergreen State College
« Reply #105 on: June 02, 2017, 10:31:16 am »
Yep this is becoming a Alt-Right website -___-


Re: Student takeover of Evergreen State College
« Reply #106 on: June 02, 2017, 10:37:53 am »
Yep this is becoming a Alt-Right website -___-

I think moderate people and libertarians just feel that many 'liberals' have become extremists and there needs to be a counterbalance. There's no massive 'Alt Right' conspiracy.


Re: Student takeover of Evergreen State College
« Reply #107 on: June 02, 2017, 10:38:31 am »
Yep this is becoming a Alt-Right website -___-

sure but our sjw mod sunshine continues to lock and delete threads that offend his sjw sensibilities.  :rolleyes:

bring back the permabanned. bring back the left leaning english rose and maybe then we could say this site is free from the fascist left. it would still be a long ways from an alt-right site.


Re: Student takeover of Evergreen State College
« Reply #108 on: June 02, 2017, 10:39:34 am »
What's the reference to "Weinstein" here?

You aren't talking about Meir Weinstein the fascist terrorist, are you?


  • CO2
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Re: Student takeover of Evergreen State College
« Reply #109 on: June 02, 2017, 10:41:30 am »
They can protest all they want. And when they say no whites day on campus, I'll tell them that they're racist pieces of shit.

 :shocked: One black student was treated unjustly by campus police!
 
:sad: What should we do? 

8) Let's demand an investigation from local police and the uni admin. We'll keep close eyes on both and try to figure out what happened.

:afro: I have a better idea, let's demonise an entire race and tell them not to come to school. Also, free food and no homework.

Oi f'in vey.




The joys of fauxtherhood


  • Loki88
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Re: Student takeover of Evergreen State College
« Reply #110 on: June 02, 2017, 10:44:12 am »
Yep this is becoming a Alt-Right website -___-

Again for the sake of clarity.

Are you suggesting that arguing against holding people against their will for hours on end is alt right? (I hesitate to use the term hostage taking.) I think racism and discrimination are wrong. I don't think victimizing other people is a reasonable response.

Because that is what these students did. It even says so in the link waygook was nice enough to provide.


  • CDW
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Re: Student takeover of Evergreen State College
« Reply #111 on: June 02, 2017, 11:12:16 am »
Yep this is becoming a Alt-Right website -___-
Is YouTube an Alt-Right website too? I'm sure I could find videos and comments there that you would find even more offensive.


  • Teemowork
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Re: Student takeover of Evergreen State College
« Reply #112 on: June 02, 2017, 11:20:33 am »

You and others keep making the same assumptions, and the same (deliberate) mistake of trying to isolate these incidents from each other, when in reality, said incidents are intrinsically linked.

I said I have no reason to doubt the racism experienced by these students on campus, because a lot of the incidents have already been meticulously recorded here

Did it ever occur to you that those claims of racism and whatever were ignored because they were overblown SJW-millennial horseshit? As for the students brought in for questioning, we need the full report, not a one-sided account. There COULD be something there. This might also have another side to it.

As for Weinstein, he's entitled to his views and you can't disrupt his class.

There's also a history of anti-Antisemitism in America. Perhaps the students protesting Weinstein were motivated by that.

Quote
At the end of the day, no amount of deflections and denial will make the conversation go away.

At the end of the day, blaming whitey for everything will not improve your condition.

At the end of the day, waygo0k gives little shits about "let's confirm evidence first before punishing" for "white" people.  Innocent until proven guilty only applies to minorities, not whites.  All it takes are people "claims" instead of HARD evidence to put people in jail.

And any time there is a statement that is different from his opinion about minorities, its apparently deflection.  Any time there is a statement that is made against white people, he'll nicely keep his mouth shut, because no deflection there!

With waygo0k track record of comments, he seems to think that minority groups can never be wrong or have "overblown SJW-millennial horseshit."  Something about their skin color just makes them immune to that shit apparently.  :laugh:


Re: Student takeover of Evergreen State College
« Reply #113 on: June 02, 2017, 11:54:32 am »

You and others keep making the same assumptions, and the same (deliberate) mistake of trying to isolate these incidents from each other, when in reality, said incidents are intrinsically linked.

I said I have no reason to doubt the racism experienced by these students on campus, because a lot of the incidents have already been meticulously recorded here

Did it ever occur to you that those claims of racism and whatever were ignored because they were overblown SJW-millennial horseshit? As for the students brought in for questioning, we need the full report, not a one-sided account. There COULD be something there. This might also have another side to it.

As for Weinstein, he's entitled to his views and you can't disrupt his class.

There's also a history of anti-Antisemitism in America. Perhaps the students protesting Weinstein were motivated by that.

Quote
At the end of the day, no amount of deflections and denial will make the conversation go away.

At the end of the day, blaming whitey for everything will not improve your condition.

At the end of the day, waygo0k gives little shits about "let's confirm evidence first before punishing" for "white" people.  Innocent until proven guilty only applies to minorities, not whites.  All it takes are people "claims" instead of HARD evidence to put people in jail.

And any time there is a statement that is different from his opinion about minorities, its apparently deflection.  Any time there is a statement that is made against white people, he'll nicely keep his mouth shut, because no deflection there!

With waygo0k track record of comments, he seems to think that minority groups can never be wrong or have "overblown SJW-millennial horseshit."  Something about their skin color just makes them immune to that shit apparently.  :laugh:

This is a horrible post. Totally misrepresenting what waygook actually said.

You're trying to turn -- admins should acknowledge a problem exists and investigate it properly into -- all white people are guilty racist jerks. Nobody here is stupid enough to believe you.

All you people saying that having an investigation is the same as a declaration of guilt are dim-wits. No, even worse than that. You're liars. You're the annoying kids in the debate-club who don't seek answers or truth, just to try to prove yourself 'right', facts be damned. Get lost.


  • Teemowork
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Re: Student takeover of Evergreen State College
« Reply #114 on: June 02, 2017, 02:08:07 pm »
I think that with the direction of how Waygook.org is going, there needs to be some serious consideration from the admin and moderators about topics like these.

From what was originally suppose to be a site about ESL education abroad, life abroad, etc abroad.... It has since then evolved into some forum of people raging about social, political, and religious issues (that isn't even ABROAD).  Discussions about religion are already banned, so can the mods consider banning social issues and political threads OUTSIDE Korea or other ESL country too?

Just look at the front page of Waygook.org and all the garbage threads popping up every single day.  Waygook.org's motto shows at the top "Teach, Travel, Learn",  Not social issues, politics, religion, etc.  It says "waygook" dot org right?  Not Mi-gook dot org, or Mi-gook social problems dot org?

Am I the only one who thinks this?  Is maintaining a little more moderation to support the intent of what this website was meant for too much to ask?  I don't mind news about Korea's new president, or ex-President Park's scandal, because that is news that may directly affect us living here.  But the rest?  I don't know.... just seems like a waste of space, and only causes arguments.


Re: Student takeover of Evergreen State College
« Reply #115 on: June 02, 2017, 02:10:29 pm »
I think that with the direction of how Waygook.org is going, there needs to be some serious consideration from the admin and moderators about topics like these.

From what was originally suppose to be a site about ESL education abroad, life abroad, etc abroad.... It has since then evolved into some forum of people raging about social, political, and religious issues (that isn't even ABROAD).  Discussions about religion are already banned, so can the mods consider banning social issues and political threads OUTSIDE Korea or other ESL country too?

Just look at the front page of Waygook.org and all the garbage threads popping up every single day.  Waygook.org's motto shows at the top "Teach, Travel, Learn",  Not social issues, politics, religion, etc.  It says "waygook" dot org right?  Not Mi-gook dot org, or Mi-gook social problems dot org?

Am I the only one who thinks this?  Is maintaining a little more moderation to support the intent of what this website was meant for too much to ask?  I don't mind news about Korea's new president, or ex-President Park's scandal, because that is news that may directly affect us living here.  But the rest?  I don't know.... just seems like a waste of space, and only causes arguments.

For once, I couldn't agree more


  • Teemowork
  • Expert Waygook

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    • September 13, 2010, 08:21:30 am
    • South Korea
Re: Student takeover of Evergreen State College
« Reply #116 on: June 02, 2017, 02:15:51 pm »
I think that with the direction of how Waygook.org is going, there needs to be some serious consideration from the admin and moderators about topics like these.

From what was originally suppose to be a site about ESL education abroad, life abroad, etc abroad.... It has since then evolved into some forum of people raging about social, political, and religious issues (that isn't even ABROAD).  Discussions about religion are already banned, so can the mods consider banning social issues and political threads OUTSIDE Korea or other ESL country too?

Just look at the front page of Waygook.org and all the garbage threads popping up every single day.  Waygook.org's motto shows at the top "Teach, Travel, Learn",  Not social issues, politics, religion, etc.  It says "waygook" dot org right?  Not Mi-gook dot org, or Mi-gook social problems dot org?

Am I the only one who thinks this?  Is maintaining a little more moderation to support the intent of what this website was meant for too much to ask?  I don't mind news about Korea's new president, or ex-President Park's scandal, because that is news that may directly affect us living here.  But the rest?  I don't know.... just seems like a waste of space, and only causes arguments.

For once, I couldn't agree more

If your level of agreement was anything less than 100%, a future event might allow you to agree "more"  :wink:

Does this mean this is the "first time" you agreed 100%? :shocked:  I'm honored to be the first for 100%!!!  ;D
« Last Edit: June 02, 2017, 02:17:54 pm by Teemowork »


Re: Student takeover of Evergreen State College
« Reply #117 on: June 02, 2017, 02:56:51 pm »
I enjoy debating on Waygook.org and I think the mods here are pretty reasonable.

People living outside of their home countries tend to have a broader perspective on social and political issues and it's good to discuss such topics with those people.

If other people only want to talk about teaching and life in Korea, they can just ignore threads about American politics.


  • Teemowork
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    • September 13, 2010, 08:21:30 am
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Re: Student takeover of Evergreen State College
« Reply #118 on: June 02, 2017, 02:59:36 pm »
I enjoy debating on Waygook.org and I think the mods here are pretty reasonable.

People living outside of their home countries tend to have a broader perspective on social and political issues and it's good to discuss such topics with those people.

If other people only want to talk about teaching and life in Korea, they can just ignore threads about American politics.

Do you consider the way people are responding to each other's posts "debating"?

And if it was like how you said.  Then why ban religious topics?  Couldn't the "other people who only want to talk about teaching and life in Korea" just ignore the threads about religion?

There was a reason why religious discussions were banned.  And that reason was probably similar to the same political BS happening in the threads you see now.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2017, 03:35:57 pm by Teemowork »


Re: Student takeover of Evergreen State College
« Reply #119 on: June 02, 2017, 03:02:26 pm »
If your level of agreement was anything less than 100%, a future event might allow you to agree "more"  :wink:

Does this mean this is the "first time" you agreed 100%? :shocked:  I'm honored to be the first for 100%!!!  ;D

I mean your worldview disgusts me but you're right that these threads are bad, and shouldn't exist

Anyway boys gonna bounce out of this one now, on an upbeat note:
http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/crime-and-courts/madison-police-investigating-possible-ambush-of-proud-boy-by-anti/article_14eac25b-5935-5982-b3d5-f6edff9ef397.html

Byeeeee