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  • macteacher
  • Expert Waygook

    • 679

    • September 03, 2012, 09:59:00 am
    • south korea
Re: Solving the air pollution problem?
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2017, 07:17:15 am »


yellow dust has always existed. people seem to be more worried about about the fine dust (2.5) which articles are saying are more locally made than traveled. korea only started taking readings of the fine dust since 2014(?).

another aspect that most people gloss over is that korea sends a lot of their assembly to china and articles have stated that those factories tend to be right across the sea. soooooo it's still kind of a korean problem for exporting factory work right across the sea. it also still means that korea should actively pursue measures the clean up locally because you can't control standards in China. 


Re: Solving the air pollution problem?
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2017, 07:43:30 am »


yellow dust has always existed. people seem to be more worried about about the fine dust (2.5) which articles are saying are more locally made than traveled. korea only started taking readings of the fine dust since 2014(?).

another aspect that most people gloss over is that korea sends a lot of their assembly to china and articles have stated that those factories tend to be right across the sea. soooooo it's still kind of a korean problem for exporting factory work right across the sea. it also still means that korea should actively pursue measures the clean up locally because you can't control standards in China.

The yellow dust tends to collect industrial toxins as it migrates. Here's a nice quote from a previously posted article.

Quote
Although the major components of yellow dust are sand and materials from the earth's crust, various industrial pollutants, including mercury and cadmium, have also contributed to the dust problem because of the rapid industrialization of China. The smaller, reparable portion of yellow dust has greater health effects. While yellow dust is of natural origin, fine and ultrafine dust is largely of man-made origin. Secondary particles from the oxidation of primary particles forming sulfuric acid, nitric acid, ammonium salts, volatile organic compounds, and black carbon are hazardous. The major anthropogenic source of the dust is combustion products of fossil fuel. Approximately 30% of sulfuric acid and 40% of nitric acid in ambient air in Korea might have been migrated from China. To reduce the transboundary pollution from China, collaborative actions between Korea and China are needed.


  • macteacher
  • Expert Waygook

    • 679

    • September 03, 2012, 09:59:00 am
    • south korea
Re: Solving the air pollution problem?
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2017, 07:46:18 am »


yellow dust has always existed. people seem to be more worried about about the fine dust (2.5) which articles are saying are more locally made than traveled. korea only started taking readings of the fine dust since 2014(?).

another aspect that most people gloss over is that korea sends a lot of their assembly to china and articles have stated that those factories tend to be right across the sea. soooooo it's still kind of a korean problem for exporting factory work right across the sea. it also still means that korea should actively pursue measures the clean up locally because you can't control standards in China.

The yellow dust tends to collect industrial toxins as it migrates. Here's a nice quote from a previously posted article.

Quote
Although the major components of yellow dust are sand and materials from the earth's crust, various industrial pollutants, including mercury and cadmium, have also contributed to the dust problem because of the rapid industrialization of China. The smaller, reparable portion of yellow dust has greater health effects. While yellow dust is of natural origin, fine and ultrafine dust is largely of man-made origin. Secondary particles from the oxidation of primary particles forming sulfuric acid, nitric acid, ammonium salts, volatile organic compounds, and black carbon are hazardous. The major anthropogenic source of the dust is combustion products of fossil fuel. Approximately 30% of sulfuric acid and 40% of nitric acid in ambient air in Korea might have been migrated from China. To reduce the transboundary pollution from China, collaborative actions between Korea and China are needed.


...okay but the problem is that korea is having ahistoric high levels of the 2.5 pollution during off yellow dust seasons. this past winter was consistently bad


Re: Solving the air pollution problem?
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2017, 09:39:50 am »


yellow dust has always existed. people seem to be more worried about about the fine dust (2.5) which articles are saying are more locally made than traveled. korea only started taking readings of the fine dust since 2014(?).

another aspect that most people gloss over is that korea sends a lot of their assembly to china and articles have stated that those factories tend to be right across the sea. soooooo it's still kind of a korean problem for exporting factory work right across the sea. it also still means that korea should actively pursue measures the clean up locally because you can't control standards in China.

The yellow dust tends to collect industrial toxins as it migrates. Here's a nice quote from a previously posted article.

Quote
Although the major components of yellow dust are sand and materials from the earth's crust, various industrial pollutants, including mercury and cadmium, have also contributed to the dust problem because of the rapid industrialization of China. The smaller, reparable portion of yellow dust has greater health effects. While yellow dust is of natural origin, fine and ultrafine dust is largely of man-made origin. Secondary particles from the oxidation of primary particles forming sulfuric acid, nitric acid, ammonium salts, volatile organic compounds, and black carbon are hazardous. The major anthropogenic source of the dust is combustion products of fossil fuel. Approximately 30% of sulfuric acid and 40% of nitric acid in ambient air in Korea might have been migrated from China. To reduce the transboundary pollution from China, collaborative actions between Korea and China are needed.


...okay but the problem is that korea is having ahistoric high levels of the 2.5 pollution during off yellow dust seasons. this past winter was consistently bad

Right. My point was that particulate matter caught up with the sand winds are more mobile, on top of the stagnant pollution


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6986

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Solving the air pollution problem?
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2017, 09:27:58 pm »
It's a close presidential race.

Ahn led Moon 36.8 percent to 32.7 percent in a Yonhap News/KBS survey taken over the weekend and released Sunday. Another survey by the Chosun Ilbo newspaper showed Ahn was favored by 34.4 percent of respondents, compared with 32.2 percent for Moon.

Top Presidential Contenders Pledge to Fix South Korea’s Air Pollution

https://koreaexpose.com/presidential-contenders-pledge-south-korea-air-pollution/

Ahn raised some eyebrows with his pledge to build a Smog Free Tower, a seven-meter-tall air purifier that that purports to filter the air and turn particulate matter into jewelry. “We should give it a try to see if it really works,” Ahn said. But before the tower was installed in Beijing last year for a design festival, its designer explained that the tower’s purpose is more about raising awareness than actually cleaning the air.

Moon and Ahn both say they would reduce reliance on coal plants, which Greenpeace sees as a critical step. “South Korea is not short of energy nor power plants. But because of economic policy, coal plants run all year round, while more than half of natural gas plants, which emit less pollution, are idle,” Son said. According to the Ministry of Trade, Industry and Energy, coal-burning power plants accounted for the largest portion of South Korea’s electricity generation in 2014.

A subtle difference between the two candidates is that Moon suggested closing down old coal plants while Ahn proposed reducing coal plant operation to 70 percent of standard levels from November to April, when fine particle dust levels are high.


Re: Solving the air pollution problem?
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2017, 09:39:36 pm »
Korean politicians can't even convince Koreans to drive safely, how are they ever going to deal with polluting cars and power plants?

And it's cute that AhnLab thinks he can blame it on China. I wonder if him or Moonie would do anything about the pollution levels at my old elementary school which was a block away from a giant LG factory.




  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Solving the air pollution problem?
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2017, 09:21:23 am »
Here's your answer:

https://www.google.ca/search?q=Koreans+plant+trees+in+the+Gobi+desert&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwim8I2fiJ_TAhWn54MKHT8AD7gQsAQIPQ&biw=1680&bih=925&dpr=1#spf=1

Everyone plant a couple billion trees each in Mongolia.   ;D
Actually, with some research in finding the appropriate type of tree to fit the climate etc, this isn't a terrible idea.

There's a pretty famous french story about a single old dude who did exactly this near some desolate valley in Provence. L'homme qui plantait des arbres.

Denmark has also had some similarly  massive reforestation projects in the past, bringing it's national forest coverage from 2% to over 14% (and still increasing)


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 4571

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Solving the air pollution problem?
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2017, 01:38:40 pm »
Actually the west passed stringent environmental laws so the companies moved to China to pollute freely.  As for it being cool everyone rode bikes years ago, the country was quite impoverished for most ordinary people.  In the rural area it still is pretty poor though everyone does now have enough food to eat.  But they really do need more strict enforcement of pollution controls.


Re: Solving the air pollution problem?
« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2017, 11:58:36 am »
We can fight it, by planting more trees, sure, but OP asked how to solve it.
Solving it would take steps which pretty much mean overhauling the entire Capitalist model.

Regular Joes adjusting their lifestyle is going to do pretty much squat to combat air pollution.
They're the scapegoats.

The real problem are the huge companies, particularly the coal barons in Northern China. These coal barons are rumoured to have more money than Bill Gates. They, and everyone like them, yield massive political power and are in control of the very laws which are there to regulate pollution.
Their stupid amounts of money is testament to their morals, they have no conscience, they don't care who they harm or kill for money and they'll never have enough money or power.

You won't solve the problem until you overhaul the system which perpetuates it.


Re: Solving the air pollution problem?
« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2017, 07:57:08 pm »
Whenever I'm stuck in a traffic jam alongside the Han River, on the way to my inlaws (which seems to happen 9 times out of 10), I often think that Seoul is crying out for a congestion charge.  For the last 15 years we've had one for London (you have to pay about 15 dollars a day to drive into the city centre - there are exceptions for commercial vehicles).  It reduced congestion by about 25%, and most of the money is put back into improving public transport, improving the environment, etc.

In Seoul you probably have one of the best public transport systems in the world, there is no need to drive in Seoul (obvious exceptions if you're transporting something heavy or have got small kids).  Charge every driver in Seoul 10,000 a day to drive in Seoul.  I know Koreans, the majority will just pay the charge.  Use the money to build more subway lines, increase the number of trains, convert all buses to double deckers etc, encourage more to surrender their cars. It won't clear the skies, but it should have a not insignificant effect on the pollution too. Start a grand project to sink those god awful Han River motorways underground, so the park runs from the river right up to the city.

Or something less ambitious: get the infrastructure in place and make Seoul an electric car-only city by, say, 2030.

Just a daydream...
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 08:09:14 pm by jimskins »


  • Cyanea
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1368

    • September 04, 2016, 01:48:24 pm
    • Las Vegas
Re: Solving the air pollution problem?
« Reply #31 on: December 25, 2017, 12:11:49 am »
Does the pollution problem help cause all the non-stop cloudy overcast weather?
Catch my drift?


  • MWeb37
  • Super Waygook

    • 422

    • February 11, 2012, 10:24:08 am
Re: Solving the air pollution problem?
« Reply #32 on: December 25, 2017, 12:24:04 pm »
Whenever I'm stuck in a traffic jam alongside the Han River, on the way to my inlaws (which seems to happen 9 times out of 10), I often think that Seoul is crying out for a congestion charge.  For the last 15 years we've had one for London (you have to pay about 15 dollars a day to drive into the city centre - there are exceptions for commercial vehicles).  It reduced congestion by about 25%, and most of the money is put back into improving public transport, improving the environment, etc.

In Seoul you probably have one of the best public transport systems in the world, there is no need to drive in Seoul (obvious exceptions if you're transporting something heavy or have got small kids).  Charge every driver in Seoul 10,000 a day to drive in Seoul.  I know Koreans, the majority will just pay the charge.  Use the money to build more subway lines, increase the number of trains, convert all buses to double deckers etc, encourage more to surrender their cars. It won't clear the skies, but it should have a not insignificant effect on the pollution too. Start a grand project to sink those god awful Han River motorways underground, so the park runs from the river right up to the city.

Or something less ambitious: get the infrastructure in place and make Seoul an electric car-only city by, say, 2030.

Just a daydream...

I agree with all of this. That said, the influence shown in my pic always makes me think Korea can only do so much.


Re: Solving the air pollution problem?
« Reply #33 on: December 25, 2017, 01:13:36 pm »
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2017/12/371_241376.html

Quote
Hundreds of flights grounded due to dense fine dust smog pollution fog in South Korea

Foggy conditions on Christmas Eve have forced several cancellations and delays at South Korea's main gateway.

As of 10 a.m. on Sunday, 34 outbound and nine inbound flights at Incheon International Airport have been delayed, according to Incheon International Airport Corp. (IIAC). In addition, five outbound and six inbound flights have been canceled.

Thick fog on the western coast, where the airport is situated, also caused 312 delays and 49 cancellations Saturday. The IIAC said 43 other flights bound for Incheon were forced to land at other airports in the country.

An IIAC official said delayed or canceled flights from Saturday have caused a logjam on Sunday, and it won't be until late afternoon that the operations will be back to normal.

The Aviation Meteorological Office issued a low visibility warning at Incheon International Airport at 1:35 a.m. Sunday and lifted it some four hours later.

This type of warning is issued when the visibility is under 400 meters, and the visibility at the airport dropped to 50 meters at one point Saturday.

While the airport officials were grappling with fog, other parts of the country were blanketed by ultrafine dust Sunday.

Ah, really. It is fine dust. Really.


  • grey
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1536

    • April 08, 2011, 04:47:11 am
    • USA
    more
Re: Solving the air pollution problem?
« Reply #34 on: December 26, 2017, 02:33:09 am »
Environmental issues have rarely received attention in South Korean elections, but the nation’s worst-ever air pollution in the first three months of this year has changed that.

With slightly over a month left to the May 9 presidential election, major contenders are releasing pledges on tackling the aggravating fine dust problem, facing conspicuously growing public awareness and voter demand.


http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20170407000681

“Blue skies and clean air are what our children deserve,” Moon said, promising that he would introduce stricter air quality standards for children to be applied for day cares, kindergartens and schools.

Revealing he received over 2,000 text messages from voters concerning air quality, he promised to pursue the air problem as one of his top priorities, if elected.

Ahn Cheol-soo of the centrist People’s Party, second in the polls, stressed that South Korea alone could not solve the fine dust issue.

“Since a lot of the particles come from China, the matter has to be resolved with diplomatic means,” he said, adding that Korea’s “foreign policy must cover environmental issues.


This shi t probably works for a lot of people but it so incredible naive. (I know the guy lost).

Korea: Can you stop the dust?

China: Not unless we cover the Gobi with a giant tarp or make it a forest.

Korea: Can you not pollute so much?

China: We are an export-oriented economy and depend on manufacturing pretty heavily. Similar to you a generation ago. You've diversified with more services, but you still rely heavily on manufacturing.

Korea: Please.

China: Sure, if you pay for the upgrades probably in the billions or trillions of dollars.

Korea: I don't want to pay, but I want you to pollute less.

China: No can do, buckaroo. We could eventually dominate wind and solar industries and then cleaner manufacturing would be more common. By that time our wages will increase making other countries more attractive spots. Kind of like how US companies around the Great Lakes outsourced manufacturing and the air quality in those and surrounding areas vastly improved.

Korea: Understand.

China: If we could snap our fingers and move to a service economy with a good bit of clean manufacturing, we'd do it (all while making the same or more money).

Korea: Our.

China: What?

Korea: Unique.

China: Are you feeling okay? Should I take you to see a doctor?

Korea: Situation.
Ko fills half his luggage with instant noodles for his international business travels, a lesson he learned after assuming on his first trip that three packages would suffice for six days. “Man, was I wrong. Since then, I always make sure I pack enough.”
-AP


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6986

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm