Read 9724 times

Re: Is veganism manageable?
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2017, 03:32:35 pm »
I'm a vegetarian not a vegan and I'm still new here so take my advise as you will.

I'm going to second practicing cooking before you come here, because if you aren't in a major city you are going to be cooking most of your meals. Tofu, vegetables and rice are everywhere, so if you don't mind rice bowls, soups and stir-fry, you can live pretty cheaply. If you are willing to spend more on food you can get some import stuffs at the larger supermarkets, and Iherb has been recommended highly, but I haven't ordered from it yet. Also, sprout delivers anywhere in Korea, so again, if you are willing to splurge on occasion, you can have vegan food delivered to your door.

I love cooking, and love eating, so food was a pretty big priority for me when I was packing. I took up room that could have gone to clothing bringing hard to find food items I knew I would use a lot (my favorite veggie bullion cubes, curry paste, nutritional yeast).  I don't regret it. Good luck : )


  • Imogen1991
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1109

    • March 18, 2015, 12:26:47 am
    • Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam
Re: Is veganism manageable?
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2017, 06:51:45 pm »
Not a vegetarian, but linking to a dailymail article deserves a paddling, kobayashi!



Re: Is veganism manageable?
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2017, 07:29:47 pm »
Thanks so much for all the helpful replies, guys! Much less thanks to the guy who felt the need to mansplain the pitfalls of veganism with a Daily Mail article. That wasn't really what I wanted this thread to be about (as I said in my original post), so I would much appreciate it if we could agree to disagree on the merits of plant-based eating so that I can reap the advice of people who live the life. Thanks. :)

Further advice is appreciated!

I will very likely get in touch when I come to Korea in August. :)
If you have any other questions, I'd love to support anyone trying to go vegan. You can PM me.


  • kobayashi
  • Expert Waygook

    • 983

    • August 18, 2016, 11:14:47 am
    • Nibiru
Re: Is veganism manageable?
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2017, 08:29:26 am »
so someone discussing the pitfalls of veganism is now 'mansplaining'?

wow. just wow.



i guess you were just looking for things that reaffirm the narrative you want to spin for yourself of veganism as being the healthiest diet out there, when in fact its not.

part of being an adult means being able to accept opinions contrary to yours.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 08:38:03 am by kobayashi »


  • CO2
  • The Legend

    • 4288

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Gunpo
    more
Re: Is veganism manageable?
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2017, 08:44:50 am »
Jenny McCarthy: Vaccines cause autism.

Richard Dawkins: There is zero scientific evidence for that.

Jenny McCarthy: Cis White Male! Stop mansplaining.
The joys of fauxtherhood


Re: Is veganism manageable?
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2017, 09:06:14 am »
Quote
Says the guy who used a Daily Mail article to back up his point.  Laughable!

It's in the Daily Mail, so it must be wrong/bad. The laziest argument there is.


  • CO2
  • The Legend

    • 4288

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Gunpo
    more
Re: Is veganism manageable?
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2017, 09:38:30 am »
Breitbart: Trump is flying to Brussels to attend EU Economic Conference.

 :shocked: How can we know if it's true????? Breitbart is on a list of "bad" things.


Look, I'm all for skepticism, but to discount automatically due to its source is too much.
The joys of fauxtherhood


  • kobayashi
  • Expert Waygook

    • 983

    • August 18, 2016, 11:14:47 am
    • Nibiru
Re: Is veganism manageable?
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2017, 09:42:49 am »

Says the guy who used a Daily Mail article to back up his point.  Laughable!

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/feb/12/wikipedia-daily-mail-reliability-ban-katherine-maher

the Daily Mail isn't exactly a bastion of science or even good journalism, but what i posted was simply an autobiographical account of how one person suffered from going vegan.

how would it be any different if it had appeared in the Guardian?

the Guardian isn't exactly free of bias either.

and funny how everyone has attacked my sources so far but said nothing really about the points that they actually raise.

the fact is that a vegan diet is NOT optimal, and is actually deficient in a number of respects. it requires much closer monitoring of macros and the nutrition that you're getting from your food than a regular omnivorous diet, and needs to be closely controlled.

all of the positive health effects that people ascribe to a vegan diet are mainly due to the fact that when people go vegan they start eating a lot more vegetables, and reduce fatty red meat and polyunsaturated fat. vegans are also more likely to exercise.

but here's the thing: you can do the same things on an omnivorous diet, be just as healthy or more so, and have the added bonus of not having to worry about the dietary deficiencies that come from being vegan.

if people want to go vegan for moral reasons i can get behind that and respect it. but for vegans to claim that their diet is the best and healthiest - when it's not - i can't get behind, and when vegans get on their high horses and do that it's seriously annoying.

you want to do it for moral reasons, great. but you need to realize that the vegan diet is deficient and not as healthy and well-balanced as an optimal omnivorous diet complemented by regular exercise, so vegans should stop telling other people that it is and stop being all high and mighty about it.


Re: Is veganism manageable?
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2017, 10:09:32 am »
There are always going to be cranks around and food seems to attract more than most. I guess it's an area where you can feel special and more virtuous by not having to do very much so it's very attractive to a lot of people.


Re: Is veganism manageable?
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2017, 11:22:21 am »
There are always going to be cranks around and food seems to attract more than most. I guess it's an area where you can feel special and more virtuous by not having to do very much so it's very attractive to a lot of people.

Wow, that makes a lot of sense. Seems like a lot of the things people do these days (yes, I am aware that veganism is not a recent fad) are motivated by virtue-signaling. Wanting to feel better than other people without doing something bothersome like volunteering their time for a good cause, donating to more needy people or working to become a better person.


  • kobayashi
  • Expert Waygook

    • 983

    • August 18, 2016, 11:14:47 am
    • Nibiru
Re: Is veganism manageable?
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2017, 11:59:23 am »
on the subject of veganism, can anyone explain what i call 'the vegan rage'?

why are vegans such angry people? is it from some deficiency in the diet? or maybe the psychological cost of making something as simple as eating so difficult? or something else?

this guy is just one example:



Re: Is veganism manageable?
« Reply #31 on: March 30, 2017, 12:24:56 pm »
on the subject of veganism, can anyone explain what i call 'the vegan rage'?

why are vegans such angry people? is it from some deficiency in the diet? or maybe the psychological cost of making something as simple as eating so difficult? or something else?

this guy is just one example:



I think you've got this backwards lol. Every vegan I've met has been a complete hippie, super chill, into yoga and sleeping. I feel like you just thought that video was funny and were trying to shoehorn it in.


  • CO2
  • The Legend

    • 4288

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Gunpo
    more
Re: Is veganism manageable?
« Reply #32 on: March 30, 2017, 12:31:01 pm »
I think you've got this backwards lol. Every vegan I've met has been a complete hippie, super chill, into yoga and sleeping. I feel like you just thought that video was funny and were trying to shoehorn it in.

I was a vegan for 9 months and I couldn't have given less of a shit what anyone else ate. Most of the other ones I know are nice. The ones who are assholes are usually te ones who also align with #HeforShe marches and yell at everyone about their white privilege. They happen to be vegan, but inside they're just shite people.

"Did you know there's a little cis, white man who watches everyone from the top of the food pyramid?"
The joys of fauxtherhood


Re: Is veganism manageable?
« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2017, 12:44:14 pm »
I became a vegetarian, not a vegan about a year ago. It's pretty manageable but it can be hard to find restaurants with vegetarian options in Korea. My school is really nice though and usually provides some veggie options just for me during lunch time.

I decided to go for it because of climate change. It's the easiest way of doing something to help, or at least not add to the problem.


  • paigekenzie
  • Explorer

    • 8

    • August 26, 2016, 08:39:08 am
    • Seoul, South Korea
Re: Is veganism manageable?
« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2017, 01:59:22 pm »
I was really surprised when I took a look back at this thread that there's so many people (or I suppose a few repeaters) who are using it to bash veganism.

Vegans, like any other group you could categorize people into, follow a certain lifestyle because of their own reasons. In any categorization, there are going to be a few people who are extreme in one way or another (e.g. vegans that get upset when others eat meat around them, the silly guy freaking out about some cheese on his pizza), but you shouldn't stereotype the group based on a few people. It's the same for religions, age groups, etc.

I hesitated even commenting because I know if I address one or all of the issues that have been brought up, someone will think of another. But, I thought I'd reach out to attempt to give you an understanding of MY perspective (though I can't speak for all vegans.)

First of all, many blogs claim veganism is unhealthy for lack of this or that in the diet. If you do nothing but cut out meat and chomp on fruits all day, you're going to get some sort of deficiency, of course! However, a safe vegan diet includes multiple sources of various vitamins and protein (fruits, vegetables, seeds, nut butters, grains, etc.)

I've been vegan for over 7 years, and the years that I was not vegan, I grew up as a vegetarian. I just got my blood work done a week ago, and everything is within optimal range. When you hear stories about "crazy vegans" feeding their children or pets a veggie diet, and them ending up in a hospital, it's not veganism to blame. It's an unhealthy diet. Anyone who tried to consist solely on one type of food is not going to thrive. Those are extremists who, unfortunately, get to bear the title of vegan based on what their diet LACKS, not what it includes! I've spoken to doctors and nutritionists about my diet. The only time I've ever gotten flack for it was in Korea because it's uncommon. My doctor raised her eyebrow and asked why I was vegan. However, after seeing my blood work, I heard nothing more.

As for vegans being "angry," I'm not quite sure what you're talking about lol -- one video? I teach 3rd graders all day; I sing silly songs; I play games with them. I'm a happy girl, even if I find a piece of cheese on my pizza! I quite hope that video was just a troll.

I chose a vegan diet not because it makes me feel "special." In fact, I'm wary of telling anyone I'm vegan. In Korea especially, I usually just claim I have some food allergies, and therefore I have to find a veggie option. I choose vegansim for both health and ethical reasons.

As for health reasons, I've seen multiple studies and articles showing that a vegan diet is healthier than one that includes meat. Here are two random sources I found with a quick Google, but if you don't agree with them, you're welcoming to keep digging on your own. While an article from the Daily Mail isn't necessarily wrong, it also isn't credible.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24871675
https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/08/06/advice-from-a-vegan-cardiologist/?_r=0


I won't get into the ethical reasons because bringing them up is usually a sure way to get someone who eats meat upset. However, please note that I believe in everyones choice. My boyfriend is not vegan, or even vegetarian, and I've lived with multiple roommates are not veggie. My choice is my choice, as is the poster's.

If the posting title said, "Hey, I'm thinking of going vegan. Do you have any opinions on why maybe I shouldn't?" Go for it. But, that wasn't the post. The poster was asking whether being veggie in Korea was a viable option. Instead of this person getting an answer, they have to filter through your unwanted, unwarranted opinions.

Can you imagine how annoyed you'd be if you made a post about trying to be paleo, and I lived on the thread commenting about how unhealthy that would be and how awful and ridiculous those who eat paleo are?

It's just a diet, dude.


  • CO2
  • The Legend

    • 4288

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Gunpo
    more
Re: Is veganism manageable?
« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2017, 02:06:23 pm »
First of all, many blogs claim veganism is unhealthy for lack of this or that in the diet. If you do nothing but cut out meat and chomp on fruits all day, you're going to get some sort of deficiency, of course! However, a safe vegan diet includes multiple sources of various vitamins and protein (fruits, vegetables, seeds, nut butters, grains, etc.)

Don't forget the number one thing a vegan needs, nutritional yeast. The stuff is packed with B12, which is the only thing that you can't get from a vegan diet, seeing as it's synthesized in animal life (meat, eggs, dairy).

Unless you're supplementing in pill form, eating this is the way to go.
The joys of fauxtherhood


  • paigekenzie
  • Explorer

    • 8

    • August 26, 2016, 08:39:08 am
    • Seoul, South Korea
Re: Is veganism manageable?
« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2017, 02:09:40 pm »
First of all, many blogs claim veganism is unhealthy for lack of this or that in the diet. If you do nothing but cut out meat and chomp on fruits all day, you're going to get some sort of deficiency, of course! However, a safe vegan diet includes multiple sources of various vitamins and protein (fruits, vegetables, seeds, nut butters, grains, etc.)

Don't forget the number one thing a vegan needs, nutritional yeast. The stuff is packed with B12, which is the only thing that you can't get from a vegan diet, seeing as it's synthesized in animal life (meat, eggs, dairy).

Unless you're supplementing in pill form, eating this is the way to go.

Yep! I have nutritional yeast, but I supplement B12 when I haven't been eating much of it.


Re: Is veganism manageable?
« Reply #37 on: March 30, 2017, 04:47:00 pm »
Pretty much any diet ranging from doritos, pizza and hamburgers to strict veganism is likely better than the average diet for 95% of humanity up until the year 1900. Let people eat what they want to eat.


Re: Is veganism manageable?
« Reply #38 on: March 30, 2017, 05:20:16 pm »
Pretty much any diet ranging from doritos, pizza and hamburgers to strict veganism is likely better than the average diet for 95% of humanity up until the year 1900. Let people eat what they want to eat.

Why is it that whenever anyone has a go at anything on this site someone will always say something like 'let people do what they want to do' even though nobody ever argues for banning anything? it was the same with nose rings, beards, veganism etc.. etc...


Re: Is veganism manageable?
« Reply #39 on: March 30, 2017, 08:08:41 pm »
First of all, many blogs claim veganism is unhealthy for lack of this or that in the diet. If you do nothing but cut out meat and chomp on fruits all day, you're going to get some sort of deficiency, of course! However, a safe vegan diet includes multiple sources of various vitamins and protein (fruits, vegetables, seeds, nut butters, grains, etc.)

Don't forget the number one thing a vegan needs, nutritional yeast. The stuff is packed with B12, which is the only thing that you can't get from a vegan diet, seeing as it's synthesized in animal life (meat, eggs, dairy).

Unless you're supplementing in pill form, eating this is the way to go.

Yep! I have nutritional yeast, but I supplement B12 when I haven't been eating much of it.
And any time people say that B12 is available in blue-green algae (which is actually cyanobacteria), it's not.

There are tests for B12 that indicate it is present, but those tests cannot distinguish between true B12 and any of its analogues; the latter of which is present in those bacteria. And further research has indicated that these analogues not just aren't B12, but that they inhibit the metabolism of true B12. So, if you have a B12 deficiency, something like spirulina might just make that it worse.