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  • Teemowork
  • Expert Waygook

    • 623

    • September 13, 2010, 08:21:30 am
    • South Korea
Re: Pittsburgh Pirates' Kang Jung-ho Denied U.S. Visa
« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2017, 01:18:40 pm »
Self driving cars will be here soon. That will cut down on accidents big time across the board.

Except that self driving cars don't lock out human control.  A drunk driver could still get in a "self driving" car, touch the steering wheel, and it automatically shifts to manual driver control.  Which if that happens...STILL leads to the same drunk driving issue.


Re: Pittsburgh Pirates' Kang Jung-ho Denied U.S. Visa
« Reply #41 on: March 29, 2017, 01:25:30 pm »

Lol, okay bud.  I guess we'll let continue to let the drunk drivers go wild with a slap of a wrist of punishments.

P.S.  Certain states DO consider DUI's as a felony, especially when it causes bodily harm to another individual.  Also, if there are REPEATED DUI's, such as 3-4, it automatically gets classified as a felony as well.

And after all this yammering...it doesn't really matter.  If there was any chance that harsher sentences was proposed for a vote, you can be sure I would STILL be using my vote for it.  Yes, I guess I'm just that guy who wants blood when people drink and drive.   :laugh:

Well whatever punishments are given can range from slaps on the wrist to quite severe. Do you think 100 hours community service, $5,000 in fines, AA meetings, tethered, probation etc. amount to slaps on the wrist? They aren't. Yes there might be some judges out there that give someone a weekend in jail and a ticket or something, but those are few and far between. If there are aggravating circumstances, then yes, a possible felony conviction is warranted, but I think 10 years is ridiculous. You cold take that logic for anything and extend it to warrant a 10 year prison sentence. Talking on the phone? 10 years. Eating while driving? 10 years. Driving caffeinated and Red Bulled? 10 years. Driving drowsy? 10 years. Maybe we should have some shock therapy and eye monitors for drivers.

You do realize that with the plan you offer, we could instead invest that money into self-driving cars and subsequently subsidizing their purchase for millions of Americans and that would do far more to reduce drunk driving with far fewer impacts to the broader economy and not result in anywhere from 2-10% of our population in prison. This is another reason your plan is moronic and you aren't thinking, but just feeling.

You may think drunk driving is an epidemic, but most Americans do not consider it a high priority relative to other things that are taking place. Yes, earlier it was a big problem and it was good to see laws changed. I think most people agree that we've reached an acceptable medium of enforcement vs. freedom.

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If car companies and state/federal legislator can make some effort to work together on something like this, it could significantly reduce drunk driving.  According to MADD, there's a 67% reduction of repeat drunk driving offenses when comparing those with an interlock device installed to those with a license suspension.  Imagine how huge of a reduction in drunk driving there would be if we just had those systems come standard with our cars. 

Certainly there would have to be some sort of reporting device and legal penalties for people who disable the device. Would you also require people to have their license's and insurance scanned before they start a car each time? What about for delivery drivers who make frequent stops? Are they going to have to? What about in emergency situations? Is someone going to have to fumble around with their interlock? 

I think most Americans would oppose such measures, which is why there hasn't been a serious push to mandate their use.

In a society that allows mass driving and also allows the free consumption of alcohol, you assume certain risks and that things are going to happen. You make laws to mitigate those risks and punish abusers, but you don't flip out and become myopic about everything.

Self driving cars will be here soon. That will cut down on accidents big time across the board.

Except that self driving cars don't lock out human control.  A drunk driver could still get in a "self driving" car, touch the steering wheel, and it automatically shifts to manual driver control.  Which if that happens...STILL leads to the same drunk driving issue.

Life Improvement beat me to it.

Well if someone gets in a self-driving car and THEN decides to operate it while drunk and start playing bumper cars, then throw him in prison.

I suspect most will either blast music and light up a smoke or pass out and wake up in the morning.


  • scholes
  • Expert Waygook

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    • May 12, 2011, 10:01:50 pm
    • Beomgye
Re: Pittsburgh Pirates' Kang Jung-ho Denied U.S. Visa
« Reply #42 on: March 29, 2017, 01:54:50 pm »
It's only fair.

However, this only happened cos he is famous. Usually dui's arent shown on Korean criminal background checks.


  • Teemowork
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    • September 13, 2010, 08:21:30 am
    • South Korea
Re: Pittsburgh Pirates' Kang Jung-ho Denied U.S. Visa
« Reply #43 on: March 29, 2017, 02:13:49 pm »
Life Improvement beat me to it.

Well if someone gets in a self-driving car and THEN decides to operate it while drunk and start playing bumper cars, then throw him in prison.

I suspect most will either blast music and light up a smoke or pass out and wake up in the morning.

Self driving cars contain very expensive equipment and technology you know.  All the sensors and gears to control the steering, all the computing in real-time on exactly how much to accelerate/decelerate vs braking etc.

Do you believe that such a complex system is cheaper than a simple breath test?  If we have the capability to move from human driven cars, to something as complex as self driving cars without having "detrimental costs" to all these things you assume, then why do we not have the means to do something simpler and cheaper in cost, such as a breathalyzer as a mainstream item?

Look, we aren't going to 100% mainstream self driving yet.  Most people won't have that feature in their cars for another 10-20 years.  I can't see how the burden in costs for a breath tester is somehow disastrously worse than self driving technology.


Re: Pittsburgh Pirates' Kang Jung-ho Denied U.S. Visa
« Reply #44 on: March 29, 2017, 02:24:56 pm »
Life Improvement beat me to it.

Well if someone gets in a self-driving car and THEN decides to operate it while drunk and start playing bumper cars, then throw him in prison.

I suspect most will either blast music and light up a smoke or pass out and wake up in the morning.

Self driving cars contain very expensive equipment and technology you know.  All the sensors and gears to control the steering, all the computing in real-time on exactly how much to accelerate/decelerate vs braking etc.

Do you believe that such a complex system is cheaper than a simple breath test?  If we have the capability to move from human driven cars, to something as complex as self driving cars without having "detrimental costs" to all these things you assume, then why do we not have the means to do something simpler and cheaper in cost, such as a breathalyzer as a mainstream item?

Look, we aren't going to 100% mainstream self driving yet.  Most people won't have that feature in their cars for another 10-20 years.  I can't see how the burden in costs for a breath tester is somehow disastrously worse than self driving technology.

https://guardianinterlock.com/blog/breaking-cost-ignition-interlock-device/

Who would pay for this interlock system and installation in every car in America? The taxpayers?

The interlock system costs $70-150 to install and then $60-80 per month to operate. So let's go with a figure of $1,000 per vehicle in year one and $800 per vehicle per annum thereafter. There are approximately 260 million registered vehicles in the U.S.

The year one cost for this would be $260 billion. That would be double MADD's figure of expenses. Interlock would turn into, I believe, the number 5 government spending program behind our military, social security, medicare, and medicaid.

Why invest that kind of money into something that will be obsolete in 10-20 years? To save 10,000 lives? You could save far more lives by expanding health care or improve people's lives by expanding social security or medicare or medicaid.

You need to stop and actually crunch the numbers first and think things out before advocating such irresponsible and idiotic policies.


  • gideonvasquez
  • Super Waygook

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    • August 27, 2015, 08:42:34 am
    • Uisung - Gyeongbuk-do
Re: Pittsburgh Pirates' Kang Jung-ho Denied U.S. Visa
« Reply #45 on: March 29, 2017, 03:45:38 pm »

The year one cost for this would be $260 billion. That would be double MADD's figure of expenses. Interlock would turn into, I believe, the number 5 government spending program behind our military, social security, medicare, and medicaid.

You need to stop and actually crunch the numbers first and think things out before advocating such irresponsible and idiotic policies.
Number five in terms of federal spending. But a program like that would probably be administered by individual states. State and local governments collectively spend around $3.5 trillion dollars a year. Including ~$1 trillion for education, ~$260 billion on protection (police/firefighters), and ~$286 billion on transportation (maintenance/expansions).

I do agree though, even a $130 billion dollar expenditure would be onerously expensive. For example:
The United States of America has several governmental estimates for the value of a human life from $7,900,000 (FDA 2010) to $9,400,000 (Dept. of Transport 2015). These estimates are based on several things, usually the years of expected quality life remaining at the time of expiration. Meaning as you age you have a lower value. And if you have a degenerative/debilitating disease your value would also decrease. Anyway...

Using the 2015 statistic (most recent officially posted that I could quickly find) of 10,265 deaths due to drunk driving we can use the values above to show the potential monetary savings of a program completely eliminating all alcohol-related vehicular deaths.

10,265 * $7,900,000 = $81,093,500,000 On the lower end.
10,265 * $9,400,000 = $96,491,000,000 On the higher end.

I suppose if you placed a higher value on human life than the agency that would decide the feasibility of a program like the one proposed (DOT) you might be able to swing a $130,000,000,000 program. But as it stands the DOT would probably do these calculations and figure out that they might have more efficient options available. Like education.


  • Teemowork
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    • September 13, 2010, 08:21:30 am
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Re: Pittsburgh Pirates' Kang Jung-ho Denied U.S. Visa
« Reply #46 on: March 29, 2017, 03:58:59 pm »
Who would pay for this interlock system and installation in every car in America? The taxpayers?

The interlock system costs $70-150 to install and then $60-80 per month to operate. So let's go with a figure of $1,000 per vehicle in year one and $800 per vehicle per annum thereafter. There are approximately 260 million registered vehicles in the U.S.

The year one cost for this would be $260 billion. That would be double MADD's figure of expenses. Interlock would turn into, I believe, the number 5 government spending program behind our military, social security, medicare, and medicaid.

Why invest that kind of money into something that will be obsolete in 10-20 years? To save 10,000 lives? You could save far more lives by expanding health care or improve people's lives by expanding social security or medicare or medicaid.

You need to stop and actually crunch the numbers first and think things out before advocating such irresponsible and idiotic policies.

You should eat your own your own bolded words.

You do realize that it's 2017 right?  Are you considering things in current times? Or thinking about this is 20 years ago.

The Interlock system that you are linking is a very old system that has a shit ton of corrupt contracts attached because the company knows they can get away with it scamming people with DUIs.  It's the same BS as how military spending goes with them spending $10,000 dollars for silly airplane screws, or $20,000 for a radio headset.  Those inflated costs are merely due to the corrupt contracts, not any actual meaningful value of the item.

Since then, there are other breathalyzer systems that can accurately test someones alcohol level.  Yes, that's right, why don't you google a few?  There are portable ones that you can find for even less than $100 dollars with very high ratings.  There are even ones that connect to your smartphone with a nice graphical user interface for you to use.

And considering the fact that all modern cars have COMPUTER SYSTEMS built in them NOW, its a lot easier to integrate a software locking mechanism into cars today, since everything is DIGITAL, compared to 20 years ago.

So WOW, like $100 bucks?  And the cost to the manufacturer?  Like what maybe $50 a car?  That's like cheaper than installing airbags.  They charge even more for adding Bluetooth as your options.

Who would pay?  The CAR COMPANIES of course!  It's just another safety feature like seat-belts or airbags.  Only this particular feature is WAY WAY WAY CHEAPER.  Stop exaggerating the costs into your crazy apocalyptic scenario.

The clear benefits would outweigh the small $100 cost or so (but it'll probably be cheaper).  And who benefits?  Insurance companies who get to collect!  They get to collect their payments while paying out less from accidents on the road.  Restaurants could potentially sell way more booze because people have more confidence drinking more knowing they can't accidentally get into their own cars and endanger their own lives.  Families would overall be better off when their loved ones can't become a drunk driver and face the harsh monetary penalties of a DUI, or even be separated from loved ones from their mistakes if they are forced to go to jail.  The what would be victims, would get to bypass getting hit and potentially killed in those would be accidents.

And the cost?  Like less than 100 bucks to car companies for every car made now and on?  Yeah.... REAL APOCALYPTIC ALRIGHT!!!  :rolleyes:  Considering how often people buy cars, even if I were to assume someone buys a new car EVERY 5 YEARS, that's like maybe 10-20 buck a year in extra costs per car?  Sorry, but I fail to see how this creates some crazy scenario you are suggesting.

TL:DR:
A breathalyzer DOES NOT cost as much you are linking (in current day).  Linking the MANY options we have today to the digital computer system we already have in cars, what we end up with is a VERY VERY CHEAP way to software lock any new car for like 50 bucks if someones alcohol level is too high.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2017, 04:20:36 pm by Teemowork »


  • KoreaBoo
  • Expert Waygook

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    • May 25, 2014, 04:00:42 pm
    • Korealand
Re: Pittsburgh Pirates' Kang Jung-ho Denied U.S. Visa
« Reply #47 on: March 29, 2017, 04:03:25 pm »
This is something most people who travel don't think about.

The U.S. and Canada do not generally allow entry to foreign nationals with criminal records....

Some countries will allow entry if they ask for permission, but it is generally not granted.

Kang is now a convicted criminal (regardless of how we feel his crime should be treated) with a criminal record.  Once you're refused on these grounds, it's very hard to get it overturned (and being a pro ball player doesn't allow you to bypass these long-standing regulations).

He's pretty much SOL.


  • JNM
  • The Legend

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    • January 19, 2015, 10:16:48 am
    • Seoul, South Korea
Re: Pittsburgh Pirates' Kang Jung-ho Denied U.S. Visa
« Reply #48 on: March 29, 2017, 04:10:02 pm »
What some Canadian provinces and territories have done is institute lower non-criminal limits for blood alcohol level.

0.08 % BAC is a Criminal Code Offence in Canada.

Most provinces start suspensions at 0.05% but in some you can get a 24 hour suspension based on a cop's judgement, and in some a novice driver must remain below the detection limit (0.02% was what remember for the detection limit, but that was ages ago!)

This has greatly changed attitudes in the "I only had a couple" department.


Re: Pittsburgh Pirates' Kang Jung-ho Denied U.S. Visa
« Reply #49 on: March 29, 2017, 04:18:29 pm »
You eat your own your own bolded words.

You do realize that it's 2017 right?  Are you considering things in current times? Or thinking about this is 20 years ago.

The Interlock system that you are linking is a very old system that has a shit ton of corrupt contracts attached because the company knows they can get away with it scamming people with DUIs.  It's the same BS as how military spending goes with them spending $10,000 dollars for silly airplane screws, or $20,000 for a radio headset.  Those inflated costs are merely due to the corrupt contracts, not any actual meaningful value of the item.

And that will continue if the government is behind it. You're making my point here.

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And considering the fact that all modern cars have computer systems built in them NOW, its a lot easier to integrate a software locking mechanism into cars today, since everything is digital, than it was 20 years ago.

So WOW, like $100 bucks?  And the cost to the manufacturer?  Like what maybe $50 a car?  That's like cheaper than installing airbags.  They charge even more for adding Bluetooth as your options.

They would also have to be maintained and would require oversight, monitoring, etc. The cost isn't to the car companies, the cost is to the consumer and the taxpayer. And what about poor people? With the installation and monthly maintenance costs, are you going to require them to spend what amounts 1/12th-1/25th of their annual income on this?

I'm not exaggerating the costs, I'm going with the figures given. Again, why mandate a piece of technology that will be rendered obsolescent by self-driving cars? Why not just take that money and invest it in self-driving car technology if you're going to intervene at all? Where does it end? Are we going to test people's eyes? Cameras to see if they use a smartphone? Music and conversations distract drivers, install microphones?

Aren't there more efficient means to achieving this?

At least you seem to be backing away from 10 years in prison for everyone because its manifestly obvious that such penalties would be unfeasible.



  • Teemowork
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Re: Pittsburgh Pirates' Kang Jung-ho Denied U.S. Visa
« Reply #50 on: March 29, 2017, 04:27:26 pm »
And that will continue if the government is behind it. You're making my point here.

It won't because there are a lot more companies that make breathalyzer out there.  You just need to link the system to a software lock in the cars.

The government isn't selling those devices, private companies are.  And the already low prices of those products are what I'm quoting as of now.  There would be more competition between them to land contracts with car manufacturers for mass production because they want earn money.  Suddenly jacking up your prices would be business suicide because another company would just land the huge contract and get rich while you die off.

You want to invest money in self driving cars, I'm not against that.  But these two things aren't mutually exclusive when the cost of this plan is so insignificant compared to other alternatives.  And I'll just continue to ignore your Interlock costs that you are pushing because its so ridiculous.  You are basically ignoring every other breathalyzer company out there just to prove your point, when it's completely unfair to do so.

Furthermore, the proven effectiveness of such a system under an updated cost would mean there's less need for federal/state spending on social programs, anti drunk driving campaigns, DUI classes and education, court fees, public damages from drunk driving accidents, wages lost from missing work, severe DUI incarcerations, etc.  We would be dramatically lowering that 130 billion dollar number and saving that tax money to BE USED on things like self driving cars or other more meaningful things, maybe health care?  Spending a comparatively small amount here, leads to extremely high savings in every other areas.  It ends up to be a net gain.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2017, 05:11:08 pm by Teemowork »


Re: Pittsburgh Pirates' Kang Jung-ho Denied U.S. Visa
« Reply #51 on: March 31, 2017, 01:11:28 am »
The government isn't selling those devices, private companies are.  And the already low prices of those products are what I'm quoting as of now.  There would be more competition between them to land contracts with car manufacturers for mass production because they want earn money.  Suddenly jacking up your prices would be business suicide because another company would just land the huge contract and get rich while you die off.

Those products also require monthly upkeep apparently. Like I said, why tax poor people like this? Make every car require them? Now some guy who used the wrong mouthwash won't be able to go to work and get fired.

So not only are you expanding the prison system by 2-25 million people you're also making it an absolute bitch just to get to work. Do you have any idea what this would do to the American economy?

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But these two things aren't mutually exclusive when the cost of this plan is so insignificant compared to other alternatives.

1,000 dollars per year is the figure. You've got to have installation, upkeep, repairs, losses because of system failure, people at a party toasting champagne and then can't get their car started to take their wife to the hospital when she goes into labor, lobbyists, red tape, lawsuits, etc.

Quote
We would be dramatically lowering that 130 billion dollar number and saving that tax money to BE USED on things like self driving cars or other more meaningful things, maybe health care?  Spending a comparatively small amount here, leads to extremely high savings in every other areas.  It ends up to be a net gain.

I love having to prove myself innocent just so I can drive. That makes total sense.

The loss in our freedom isn't worth it. You give them an inch on this and they'll start doing it with every damn thing under the sun. Soon you'll have electric shocks if your eyes droop. Radios will be banned. Smartphones will be banned. Caffeine will be banned. Heck, ban passengers because talking to them can distract a driver almost as much as alcohol. And it won't stop there, you'll find some other damn thing to regulate and make us blow into.

Crap like this is why I've been moved to backing that idiot Donald Trump. People call red staters dumb, but at least they aren't moronic enough to support this kind of crap. Fortunately enough liberals too would be appalled at this idea that it has zero chance of taking place. And if someone tried something like this we'd just get a bunch of guns and people together with the military and red-blooded cops and construction workers and just run the tyrants who tried this out of the country.

We already have too many people in prison, we don't need to double it or even worse, times it by 10.

Go form your own damn country if you want to blow into some nasty morning breath stank piece of plastic just to drive down to the corner store to pick up some milk. Maybe you need the government to hold your hand and dispense your meals from a slot so you don't have too many calories. Then you can have mandatory exercise time on some spinning wheel in your house so we can save lives when it comes to heart disease.

The rest of us will take our 10k deaths per year, try to lower it to 5k, and laugh at you as we enjoy our freedom and the fact that we don't have to suck off an electronic jolly rod attached to a steering wheel to take our kids to school in the morning because we aren't total wimps and still have our self-respect.

If our kids see us doing that just to drive, they'll lose all respect for us.

Have fun going down on your car every morning. Maybe they should install it so you have to get down on your knees in order to blow.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 01:14:55 am by Mr.DeMartino »


  • gogators!
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Re: Pittsburgh Pirates' Kang Jung-ho Denied U.S. Visa
« Reply #52 on: March 31, 2017, 08:26:55 am »
The government isn't selling those devices, private companies are.  And the already low prices of those products are what I'm quoting as of now.  There would be more competition between them to land contracts with car manufacturers for mass production because they want earn money.  Suddenly jacking up your prices would be business suicide because another company would just land the huge contract and get rich while you die off.

Those products also require monthly upkeep apparently. Like I said, why tax poor people like this? Make every car require them? Now some guy who used the wrong mouthwash won't be able to go to work and get fired.

So not only are you expanding the prison system by 2-25 million people you're also making it an absolute bitch just to get to work. Do you have any idea what this would do to the American economy?

Quote
But these two things aren't mutually exclusive when the cost of this plan is so insignificant compared to other alternatives.

1,000 dollars per year is the figure. You've got to have installation, upkeep, repairs, losses because of system failure, people at a party toasting champagne and then can't get their car started to take their wife to the hospital when she goes into labor, lobbyists, red tape, lawsuits, etc.

Quote
We would be dramatically lowering that 130 billion dollar number and saving that tax money to BE USED on things like self driving cars or other more meaningful things, maybe health care?  Spending a comparatively small amount here, leads to extremely high savings in every other areas.  It ends up to be a net gain.

I love having to prove myself innocent just so I can drive. That makes total sense.

The loss in our freedom isn't worth it. You give them an inch on this and they'll start doing it with every damn thing under the sun. Soon you'll have electric shocks if your eyes droop. Radios will be banned. Smartphones will be banned. Caffeine will be banned. Heck, ban passengers because talking to them can distract a driver almost as much as alcohol. And it won't stop there, you'll find some other damn thing to regulate and make us blow into.

Crap like this is why I've been moved to backing that idiot Donald Trump. People call red staters dumb, but at least they aren't moronic enough to support this kind of crap. Fortunately enough liberals too would be appalled at this idea that it has zero chance of taking place. And if someone tried something like this we'd just get a bunch of guns and people together with the military and red-blooded cops and construction workers and just run the tyrants who tried this out of the country.

We already have too many people in prison, we don't need to double it or even worse, times it by 10.

Go form your own damn country if you want to blow into some nasty morning breath stank piece of plastic just to drive down to the corner store to pick up some milk. Maybe you need the government to hold your hand and dispense your meals from a slot so you don't have too many calories. Then you can have mandatory exercise time on some spinning wheel in your house so we can save lives when it comes to heart disease.

The rest of us will take our 10k deaths per year, try to lower it to 5k, and laugh at you as we enjoy our freedom and the fact that we don't have to suck off an electronic jolly rod attached to a steering wheel to take our kids to school in the morning because we aren't total wimps and still have our self-respect.

If our kids see us doing that just to drive, they'll lose all respect for us.

Have fun going down on your car every morning. Maybe they should install it so you have to get down on your knees in order to blow.
10,000 people have to die so you can save a few bucks. And probably not even that much, truth be told. As for the poor and the crocodile tears you shed for them, they're riding bikes (which you want to prohibit), not driving cars.

You're probably unaware, but this is the same argument used to oppose seatbelts in cars. It's a good thing saner heads (more than likely, NOT trump supporters) prevailed.


Re: Pittsburgh Pirates' Kang Jung-ho Denied U.S. Visa
« Reply #53 on: March 31, 2017, 10:06:07 am »
10,000 people have to die so you can save a few bucks. And probably not even that much, truth be told.

Enough money to be the 5th largest government spending program is a few bucks? There's a lot our country can do to save 10k people. I'm sure a number of people die each year because of medical error. We could imprison them for 10 years. I'm sure that there would be no adverse effects on the health system and quality of care would only improve.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2016/05/03/researchers-medical-errors-now-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-united-states/

We could mandate breathalyzers in every workplace upon entrance. Remember getting your temperature taken during the various flu crazes in Korea? Well now instead of a thermometer in your ear, you can have the joy of going down on a breathalyzer right after your ajosshi coworker and his kimchi stew breakfast. 5 point safety restraints and crash helmets and Nomex body suits could save lives in car crashes, perhaps we should mandate those too.

At some point in a free society you have to accept a certain level of risk in certain activities in exchange for practicality, not being taxed into oblivion, not living in a draconian state, and yes, a certain level of convenience.

You may be fine with getting down on your knees and slobbering all over a breathalyzer knob in front of your kids in order to start your car, I think most Americans have enough pride and self-respect and dignity not to subject themselves to such measures.


  • gogators!
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Re: Pittsburgh Pirates' Kang Jung-ho Denied U.S. Visa
« Reply #54 on: March 31, 2017, 11:47:50 am »
10,000 people have to die so you can save a few bucks. And probably not even that much, truth be told.

Enough money to be the 5th largest government spending program is a few bucks? There's a lot our country can do to save 10k people. I'm sure a number of people die each year because of medical error. We could imprison them for 10 years. I'm sure that there would be no adverse effects on the health system and quality of care would only improve.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2016/05/03/researchers-medical-errors-now-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-united-states/

We could mandate breathalyzers in every workplace upon entrance. Remember getting your temperature taken during the various flu crazes in Korea? Well now instead of a thermometer in your ear, you can have the joy of going down on a breathalyzer right after your ajosshi coworker and his kimchi stew breakfast. 5 point safety restraints and crash helmets and Nomex body suits could save lives in car crashes, perhaps we should mandate those too.

At some point in a free society you have to accept a certain level of risk in certain activities in exchange for practicality, not being taxed into oblivion, not living in a draconian state, and yes, a certain level of convenience.

You may be fine with getting down on your knees and slobbering all over a breathalyzer knob in front of your kids in order to start your car, I think most Americans have enough pride and self-respect and dignity not to subject themselves to such measures.

As for fifth largest spening program, your figures have already been shown above to be exaggerated.

That there are other problems doesn't mean this one should be ignored.

Look at the photo here: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/safety/ignition-interlock-program.shtml. No one is down on their knees or slobbering.

That you have to resort to phoney arguments shows the weakness of your position. And now you're against seatbelts. What a guy!


Re: Pittsburgh Pirates' Kang Jung-ho Denied U.S. Visa
« Reply #55 on: March 31, 2017, 12:04:41 pm »
As for fifth largest spening program, your figures have already been shown above to be exaggerated.

Those are the figures that a reputable firm has cited. Roughly 1000 dollars per car, per year.

Quote
That there are other problems doesn't mean this one should be ignored.

No, but in a world with limited resources and limited tax revenue, you have to make priorities and look at how efficient things are. Given the costs of doubling to 10X the prison population AND having interlock be the 5th most expensive government spending program, I think we should ignore those two policy proposals and maybe go with hiring a few more cops or starting up a new education or treatment program.

Quote
Look at the photo here: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/safety/ignition-interlock-program.shtml. No one is down on their knees or slobbering.

That photo is a photo of a man without respect. Do you want that to be you every morning gogators!?

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And now you're against seatbelts. What a guy!

I'm for mandatory driver and front passenger seatbelts and mandatory seatbelts for kids. I am against it for rear-seat adult passengers.

And if you read what I wrote I said 5-point safety restraints. Do you know what a 5-point safety restraint is? Do you think they should be mandatory for all drivers and passengers?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 12:10:09 pm by Mr.DeMartino »


  • gogators!
  • The Legend

    • 3721

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Pittsburgh Pirates' Kang Jung-ho Denied U.S. Visa
« Reply #56 on: March 31, 2017, 03:05:54 pm »
As for fifth largest spening program, your figures have already been shown above to be exaggerated.

Those are the figures that a reputable firm has cited. Roughly 1000 dollars per car, per year.

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That there are other problems doesn't mean this one should be ignored.

No, but in a world with limited resources and limited tax revenue, you have to make priorities and look at how efficient things are. Given the costs of doubling to 10X the prison population AND having interlock be the 5th most expensive government spending program, I think we should ignore those two policy proposals and maybe go with hiring a few more cops or starting up a new education or treatment program.

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Look at the photo here: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/safety/ignition-interlock-program.shtml. No one is down on their knees or slobbering.

That photo is a photo of a man without respect. Do you want that to be you every morning gogators!?

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And now you're against seatbelts. What a guy!

I'm for mandatory driver and front passenger seatbelts and mandatory seatbelts for kids. I am against it for rear-seat adult passengers.

And if you read what I wrote I said 5-point safety restraints. Do you know what a 5-point safety restraint is? Do you think they should be mandatory for all drivers and passengers?
I respect all who follow the law and care enough about the lives of others to do so.

You, on the other hand, care only for your own personal convenience and argue, falsely and unconvincingly, against anything that interferes with that. Let's not forget, you argued you should be able to run red lights when you felt it was safe to do so. You also posted you like to have a beer before driving to relax yourself in Korean traffic.

By conflating seatbelts with safety harnesses you are effectively arguing against them.

As for priorities, your priority is to stand in the way of progress. Your interest in other problems is motivated by a desire to always do as little as possible. And even better yet, nothing.

Al Harrison: "Our mission is to get to the moon. In my head, we're already there."

sr/dm: "Lookit here, son, I say son, if man was supposed to fly he'd have wings. The moon? That's crazy talk."


Re: Pittsburgh Pirates' Kang Jung-ho Denied U.S. Visa
« Reply #57 on: March 31, 2017, 04:17:10 pm »
. Let's not forget, you argued you should be able to run red lights when you felt it was safe to do so.
Your reading comprehension sucks. I said you should be able to treat it like a 4-way stop under certain conditions. That you should, at designated traffic lights and under the condition of having a 'good driver license plate' be able to do such a thing.

You on the other hand, apparently took that to mean people should be able to just blast on through without slowing down.

And yes, having a beer is under the legal limit. Sorry, bud.

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By conflating seatbelts with safety harnesses you are effectively arguing against them.

No, saying people of all ages shouldn't be forced to wear seatbelts either as a driver or in any passenger seat is arguing against seatbelts. Saying "if you really wanted to save lives, you could mandate 5-point safety harnesses" is not arguing against seatbelts. it is arguing against the legislative mindset that justifies any measure under the pretext of saving lives.

Your reading comprehension sucks.

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As for priorities, your priority is to stand in the way of progress. Your interest in other problems is motivated by a desire to always do as little as possible. And even better yet, nothing.

Actually, its over-regulation of the kind that you speak of that can stand in the way of progress. There is such a thing as too much bureaucracy.

But yeah, nothing says progress like increasing the world's largest prison population by 2-10X and triggering a depression.


  • gogators!
  • The Legend

    • 3721

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Pittsburgh Pirates' Kang Jung-ho Denied U.S. Visa
« Reply #58 on: March 31, 2017, 04:56:33 pm »
. Let's not forget, you argued you should be able to run red lights when you felt it was safe to do so.
Your reading comprehension sucks. I said you should be able to treat it like a 4-way stop under certain conditions. That you should, at designated traffic lights and under the condition of having a 'good driver license plate' be able to do such a thing.

You on the other hand, apparently took that to mean people should be able to just blast on through without slowing down.

And yes, having a beer is under the legal limit. Sorry, bud.

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By conflating seatbelts with safety harnesses you are effectively arguing against them.

No, saying people of all ages shouldn't be forced to wear seatbelts either as a driver or in any passenger seat is arguing against seatbelts. Saying "if you really wanted to save lives, you could mandate 5-point safety harnesses" is not arguing against seatbelts. it is arguing against the legislative mindset that justifies any measure under the pretext of saving lives.

Your reading comprehension sucks.

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As for priorities, your priority is to stand in the way of progress. Your interest in other problems is motivated by a desire to always do as little as possible. And even better yet, nothing.

Actually, its over-regulation of the kind that you speak of that can stand in the way of progress. There is such a thing as too much bureaucracy.

But yeah, nothing says progress like increasing the world's largest prison population by 2-10X and triggering a depression.
That's what flashing red lights are for.

Your license plate idea only came up after you'd been hauled over the coals by everyone else posting on that thread for the idiocy of your original idea. Not to mention the license plate idea is idiotic as well. 

What you are unable to comprehend is that once these laws go into effect fewer and fewer people would drive drunk and so the prison population explosion you keep insisting on wouldn't happen.

Your lack of foresight and self-awareness are running neck and neck in a race to nowhere.

One beer, huh? You're as credible as Clifford Irving.

Over-regulation is the problem? Tell it to the Sewol victims.