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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2500 on: December 28, 2018, 01:49:08 pm »
I recently heard that the song "Baby, It's Cold Outside" has been banned by several radio stations because some SJW's were complaining the song is about date rape. There are endless opportunities to feel victimized.

From what I've read it was banned by the stations (not SJWs) and, more importantly, far more people were angry about it after it was banned.

https://www.npr.org/2018/12/05/673770902/baby-it-s-cold-outside-seen-as-sexist-frozen-out-by-radio-stations

edit: in other words, the backlash was way bigger than the original complaints (if there were any).


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2501 on: December 28, 2018, 02:03:41 pm »


I know I keep coming back to SJW stuff, but I do think that really is a big sticking point. There's just so many "outrage" moments and stuff like "Should Santa be male?" or "Boys can have periods too" or "Free Speech=White Supremacy" that people are just exasperated. 

My problem is I've never actual met one of those people. I only hear about the outrage and reactions. I'm not saying it's not out there, but I definitely think it's a vocal minority that gets blown way out of proportion by the media and people like you. Show me some stats and I'll gladly admit I'm wrong about it, but it hasn't been my experience online or in real life.

There's no reason why you should have met any of 'these people', they mostly work in the media, government or academia. You only have to pick up certain newspapers to read about what they're up to though. If you work for a government organization, as I have, and you find yourself pressurized into attending voluntary diversity training, for example, then it starts having an impact on your life.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 02:05:59 pm by eggieguffer »


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2502 on: December 28, 2018, 02:13:08 pm »


I know I keep coming back to SJW stuff, but I do think that really is a big sticking point. There's just so many "outrage" moments and stuff like "Should Santa be male?" or "Boys can have periods too" or "Free Speech=White Supremacy" that people are just exasperated. 

My problem is I've never actual met one of those people. I only hear about the outrage and reactions. I'm not saying it's not out there, but I definitely think it's a vocal minority that gets blown way out of proportion by the media and people like you. Show me some stats and I'll gladly admit I'm wrong about it, but it hasn't been my experience online or in real life.

There's no reason why you should have met any of 'these people', they mostly work in the media, government or academia. You only have to pick up certain newspapers to read about what they're up to though. If you work for a government organization, as I have, and you find yourself pressurized into attending voluntary diversity training, for example, then it starts having an impact on your life.

But we were talking about regular people and your average liberal voter. Also, I spent a semester working for a (liberal) congressman and not once did I hear anything from any of the people that I worked with that would potentially spawn an "outrage" moment. We are talking about a very, very specific group of people that would claim something like "boys can have periods, too" vs. a very general group of people who would be outraged by that.


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2503 on: December 28, 2018, 02:28:18 pm »


I know I keep coming back to SJW stuff, but I do think that really is a big sticking point. There's just so many "outrage" moments and stuff like "Should Santa be male?" or "Boys can have periods too" or "Free Speech=White Supremacy" that people are just exasperated. 

My problem is I've never actual met one of those people. I only hear about the outrage and reactions. I'm not saying it's not out there, but I definitely think it's a vocal minority that gets blown way out of proportion by the media and people like you. Show me some stats and I'll gladly admit I'm wrong about it, but it hasn't been my experience online or in real life.

There's no reason why you should have met any of 'these people', they mostly work in the media, government or academia. You only have to pick up certain newspapers to read about what they're up to though. If you work for a government organization, as I have, and you find yourself pressurized into attending voluntary diversity training, for example, then it starts having an impact on your life.

But we were talking about regular people and your average liberal voter. Also, I spent a semester working for a (liberal) congressman and not once did I hear anything from any of the people that I worked with that would potentially spawn an "outrage" moment. We are talking about a very, very specific group of people that would claim something like "boys can have periods, too" <snip>
Made of straw, possibly ...


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2504 on: December 28, 2018, 02:33:26 pm »


I know I keep coming back to SJW stuff, but I do think that really is a big sticking point. There's just so many "outrage" moments and stuff like "Should Santa be male?" or "Boys can have periods too" or "Free Speech=White Supremacy" that people are just exasperated. 

My problem is I've never actual met one of those people. I only hear about the outrage and reactions. I'm not saying it's not out there, but I definitely think it's a vocal minority that gets blown way out of proportion by the media and people like you. Show me some stats and I'll gladly admit I'm wrong about it, but it hasn't been my experience online or in real life.

There's no reason why you should have met any of 'these people', they mostly work in the media, government or academia. You only have to pick up certain newspapers to read about what they're up to though. If you work for a government organization, as I have, and you find yourself pressurized into attending voluntary diversity training, for example, then it starts having an impact on your life.

But we were talking about regular people and your average liberal voter. Also, I spent a semester working for a (liberal) congressman and not once did I hear anything from any of the people that I worked with that would potentially spawn an "outrage" moment. We are talking about a very, very specific group of people that would claim something like "boys can have periods, too" vs. a very general group of people who would be outraged by that.

The congressman you worked for presumably had to get elected so wouldn't want to be involved in anything too extreme.  It also depends on what you call an 'outrage moment' . I personally would be outraged at discriminatory hiring practises which go on all the time in government run organisations.


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2505 on: December 28, 2018, 02:49:05 pm »

Made of straw, possibly ...

Feel free to elaborate.


The congressman you worked for presumably had to get elected so wouldn't want to be involved in anything too extreme.  It also depends on what you call an 'outrage moment' . I personally would be outraged at discriminatory hiring practises which go on all the time in government run organisations.

I wouldn't put arguments about affirmative action and arguments about whether boys have periods in the same category of "outrageous."

My main point remains that the reaction to these things often causes way more noise than the original event itself. For example, the reaction to baby it's cold outside being banned reached wayyyyyyyy more people and caused much more noise than the people (however many there were) who had a problem with the song in the first place.


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2506 on: December 28, 2018, 02:54:26 pm »
"The cartoon character, voiced by white actor Hank Azaria, prompted heated debate in recent months after he was branded a racist caricature in a TV documentary, The Problem with Apu."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/2018/10/27/apu-dropped-simpsons-racism-row/

The whole cartoon could be interpreted as a mockery of American life in general. Homer Simpson is a mockery of fat, balding working class man. Ned Flanders is a mockery of an evangelical Christian. But because a certain character speaks with an exaggerated Indian accent the cartoon is suddenly racist according to SJW's.


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2507 on: December 28, 2018, 03:04:43 pm »

Made of straw, possibly ...

Feel free to elaborate.
Oh, just suggesting that a lot of arguments supposedly put forth by SJWs and touchie-feelies are strawman arguments from the right--the number of people that argue that boys can have periods too is vanishingly small.

I was sort of discussing this last night over dinner, as it happens.  Certain people keep proclaiming that the "left" wants to force you to say "Happy Holidays" so people don't micro-aggress all over other peoples' beliefs, sects, world views, what-have-you.

But this isn't really the case at all. While it may or may not be woke to say HH, no one is insisting you say it their way--except of course the '"Merry Christmas" or go to hell!' crowd who think that acknowleding Hannukah and Kwaanza and whatever are somehow perpetrating a WAR on Christmas.  Turns out, the Right is a bunch of snowflakes who want to control what other people say.

Anyway, Happy Hols to alls!


« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 03:08:10 pm by Mr C »


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2508 on: December 28, 2018, 03:05:41 pm »
"The cartoon character, voiced by white actor Hank Azaria, prompted heated debate in recent months after he was branded a racist caricature in a TV documentary, The Problem with Apu."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/2018/10/27/apu-dropped-simpsons-racism-row/

The whole cartoon could be interpreted as a mockery of American life in general. Homer Simpson is a mockery of fat, balding working class man. Ned Flanders is a mockery of an evangelical Christian. But because a certain character speaks with an exaggerated Indian accent the cartoon is suddenly racist according to SJW's.

Yes this is a good example as SJWs actually enacted change and got rid of the Apu character. So it's not just a vocal minority not having any real effect. 


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2509 on: December 28, 2018, 03:12:06 pm »

Made of straw, possibly ...

Feel free to elaborate.
Oh, just suggesting that a lot of arguments supposedly put forth by SJWs and touchie-feelies are strawman arguments--the number of people that argue that boys can have periods too is vanishingly small.

I was sort of discussing this last night over dinner, as it happens.  Certain people keep proclaiming that the "left" wants to force you to say "Happy Holidays" so people don't micro-aggress all over other peoples' beliefs, sects, world views, what-have-you.

But this isn't really the case at all. While it may or may not be woke to say HH, no one is insisting you say it their way--except of course the '"Merry Christmas" or go to hell!' crowd who think that acknowleding Hannukah and Kwaanza and whatever are somehow perpetrating a WAR on Christmas.  Turns out, the Right is a bunch of snowflakes who want to control what other people say.

Anyway, Happy Hols to alls!

I don't like or see the point of 'happy holidays' and it irritates me mildly, but as long as no one objects to me saying 'Merry Christmas', that's fine they can say what they want.  However if I sent an email, for example, to everyone at work saying 'merry Christmas' and my boss told me not to, to avoid offending non Christians (quite within the realms of possibility) that would be slightly more irritating. Or if I designed a poster for the Christmas party and someone told me to change the title to holidays party - again quite within the realm of possibility, it would be even more irritating. You see where this is going...


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2510 on: December 28, 2018, 03:18:51 pm »

Yes this is a good example as SJWs actually enacted change and got rid of the Apu character. So it's not just a vocal minority not having any real effect.

This is not a good example. How many people did you know (before the Apu documentary) that cared about Apu? How much did we hear about it? Not much all...

One movie was released and all of a sudden people were lining up on all sides to argue about it. Suddenly, everyone had an opinion and the Simpsons people caved. Even when it was going on, I didn't see or hear much from people complaining about how racist Apu is. Did you? I did hear a lot from people complaining about the people complaining...

edit: i never meant to say that the vocal minority has no effect, just that they are truly a minority (despite the fact that they are presented as more than that).

Or if I designed a poster for the Christmas party and someone told me to change the title to holidays party - again quite within the realm of possibility, it would be even more irritating. You see where this is going...

Well if your work is having a holiday party and you want to pretend it's a Christmas party...


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2511 on: December 28, 2018, 03:23:26 pm »

Yes this is a good example as SJWs actually enacted change and got rid of the Apu character. So it's not just a vocal minority not having any real effect.

This is not a good example. How many people did you know (before the Apu documentary) that cared about Apu? How much did we hear about it? Not much all...

One movie was released and all of a sudden people were lining up on all sides to argue about it. Suddenly, everyone had an opinion and the Simpsons people caved. Even when it was going on, I didn't see or hear much from people complaining about how racist Apu is. Did you? I did hear a lot from people complaining about the people complaining...

edit: i never meant to say that the vocal minority has no effect, just that they are truly a minority (despite the fact that they are presented as more than that).

Or if I designed a poster for the Christmas party and someone told me to change the title to holidays party - again quite within the realm of possibility, it would be even more irritating. You see where this is going...

Well if your work is having a holiday party and you want to pretend it's a Christmas party...

Fine, they're truly a minority then, but if they can enact change, it's worth making a big noise abut what they're up to, isn't it.


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2512 on: December 28, 2018, 03:25:34 pm »

Yes this is a good example as SJWs actually enacted change and got rid of the Apu character. So it's not just a vocal minority not having any real effect.

This is not a good example. How many people did you know (before the Apu documentary) that cared about Apu? How much did we hear about it? Not much all...

One movie was released and all of a sudden people were lining up on all sides to argue about it. Suddenly, everyone had an opinion and the Simpsons people caved. Even when it was going on, I didn't see or hear much from people complaining about how racist Apu is. Did you? I did hear a lot from people complaining about the people complaining...

edit: i never meant to say that the vocal minority has no effect, just that they are truly a minority (despite the fact that they are presented as more than that).

Or if I designed a poster for the Christmas party and someone told me to change the title to holidays party - again quite within the realm of possibility, it would be even more irritating. You see where this is going...

Well if your work is having a holiday party and you want to pretend it's a Christmas party...

Fine, they're truly a minority then, but if they can enact change, it's worth making a big noise abut what they're up to, isn't it.

Sure, as long is we don't pretend every liberal is one of these people.


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2513 on: December 28, 2018, 03:53:13 pm »

Yes this is a good example as SJWs actually enacted change and got rid of the Apu character. So it's not just a vocal minority not having any real effect.

This is not a good example. How many people did you know (before the Apu documentary) that cared about Apu? How much did we hear about it? Not much all...

One movie was released and all of a sudden people were lining up on all sides to argue about it. Suddenly, everyone had an opinion and the Simpsons people caved. Even when it was going on, I didn't see or hear much from people complaining about how racist Apu is. Did you? I did hear a lot from people complaining about the people complaining...

edit: i never meant to say that the vocal minority has no effect, just that they are truly a minority (despite the fact that they are presented as more than that).

Or if I designed a poster for the Christmas party and someone told me to change the title to holidays party - again quite within the realm of possibility, it would be even more irritating. You see where this is going...

Well if your work is having a holiday party and you want to pretend it's a Christmas party...

Fine, they're truly a minority then, but if they can enact change, it's worth making a big noise abut what they're up to, isn't it.

Sure, as long is we don't pretend every liberal is one of these people.

Yeah I agree, if I was talking about discriminatory hiring practices I might use the term left-wing but Santa Claus should be a woman etc... I'd probably use the term progressive/regressive or SJW.


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2514 on: December 28, 2018, 08:34:58 pm »
Choo, Choo!

Take the derail elsewhere.

trump outs SEAL team, makes military visit a campaign stop, Stone on the hot seat pretty soon, more and more outrageous lies, increased volatility in the markets, more lies, government shut down over a wall that the majority of Americans oppose because they;re smart enough to know it won't work and that Mexico isn't paying for it, children seeking asylum dying in US care.

And the beat goes on.

It's chaos, brother, and it looks like it will get worse before it gets better.


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2515 on: December 28, 2018, 11:27:10 pm »
Jesus, I am so sick of your shit!  Stop telling me I don't have a clue!

I know perfectly well you have to take Pentagon/government esitimates with a grain of salt. 

What I know, and you obviously don't, is that while 15,000 ISIS may be an over-estimate, "ISIS is defeated" is a flat-out LIE.

Of course, you know all about lies, right?
Dude, when you say things like "I think I hnderstand what's going on in the Middle East because I read a Tom Friedman op-ed", what other word than clueless is there?
A lie.  Since I never said that, or even anything like that.  I mentioned Friedman, usually recognized as an expert on the Middle East, as someone I have read, though. 

Two things you are doing wrong here:
1) Simplifying my statement to make it easier to respond to--a strawman, textbook fallacy.
2) Ad hominem, attacking my character/intelligence as though I have only read one source, which you surely know is wrong. You are a living (if not a bot) textbook for logic fallacies 101.

Quote
ISIS IS defeated in the sense that the Caliphate no longer exists to any significant degree and that no major settlement is under their control.
Oh, I agree that the dream of an eternal caliphate has been defeated.  That doesn't mean they are not still active--a minimum of 20,000 in Syria, etc still wreaking havoc--and not unlike Al Quaeda  "defeated" in Iraq--can rise again unless someone stays in to deal their final blow.  You think Turkey or Russia is going to do that?  Yet you call me clueless.  It is to laugh.

Quote
Having a different interpretation of "defeat" is NOT a lie. By rushing to declare everything a lie, you diminish the term.
I don't declare everything a lie, only lies!
Quote
Did we defeat Communism? Most people would say yes. But some people would say "Well there is still China, North Korea, Cuba, various other Latin American regimes that crop up, etc." Same with ISIS.
Personally, I've always seen it that communism defeated itself, being an untenable social system.  And indeed China, NK and Cuba are not communist, anyway, they are totalitarian regimes like Russia is today.  But I'm nitpicking....
Quote
Mr. C stop calling everything you disagree with a lie. Calm down and consider an alternative way of looking at things. And stop labeling differences of interpretation or mistakes or errors or comedic exaggeration as LIES!!!!

See, you keep doing this.  I only call things a lie when they are untrue, but every time you disagree with me I am clueless.  And it's only comedic exaggeration when it's funny.

Getting out of Syria is a good thing, but it must be done circumspectly, safely and honorably.  None of those words can be reasonably used to describe this president's actions.

Cf. the troops got a 10% raise thanks to Trump (actually 2.6%), their first in 10 years (actually they have gotten a similar raise in each of the last 30 years).  I call that a LIE.  But you call it  "differences of interpretation or mistakes or errors or comedic exaggeration".  Whatever.


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2516 on: December 28, 2018, 11:51:40 pm »

Made of straw, possibly ...

Feel free to elaborate.
Oh, just suggesting that a lot of arguments supposedly put forth by SJWs and touchie-feelies are strawman arguments--the number of people that argue that boys can have periods too is vanishingly small.

I was sort of discussing this last night over dinner, as it happens.  Certain people keep proclaiming that the "left" wants to force you to say "Happy Holidays" so people don't micro-aggress all over other peoples' beliefs, sects, world views, what-have-you.

But this isn't really the case at all. While it may or may not be woke to say HH, no one is insisting you say it their way--except of course the '"Merry Christmas" or go to hell!' crowd who think that acknowleding Hannukah and Kwaanza and whatever are somehow perpetrating a WAR on Christmas.  Turns out, the Right is a bunch of snowflakes who want to control what other people say.

Anyway, Happy Hols to alls!

I don't like or see the point of 'happy holidays' and it irritates me mildly, but as long as no one objects to me saying 'Merry Christmas', that's fine they can say what they want. 

We're in agreement. 
I generally say "Happy Holidays" because it comes up around Thanksgiving, Christmas, Hannukah, Kwaanza, et al and I am wishing all my various friends happiness.

But I'm sure you are aware of a whole contingent of Fox News people who take umbrage and get insulted if you say Happy Holidays.  It hasn't happened to me lately, but in the past it has.

Quote
However if I sent an email, for example, to everyone at work saying 'merry Christmas' and my boss told me not to, to avoid offending non Christians (quite within the realms of possibility) that would be slightly more irritating.

Suppose a cultist in your office sent a blanket email saying "Merry Kill Baby Jesus Day!" never mind, I withdraw my hypothetical question.
Quote

 Or if I designed a poster for the Christmas party and someone told me to change the title to holidays party - again quite within the realm of possibility, it would be even more irritating. You see where this is going...

Yes, I do see. It's that people at work who you know and possibly like or who even like you have different religious preferences whose religions are celebrated at approximately the same time, and who have paid into the same office party fund as you, would like to have their beliefs acknowledged as well, so they want a poster that reflects a more inclusive message than just your personal religion.

That's where this was going, right?...


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2517 on: December 29, 2018, 03:15:59 am »
Quote
Yes, I do see. It's that people at work who you know and possibly like or who even like you have different religious preferences whose religions are celebrated at approximately the same time, and who have paid into the same office party fund as you, would like to have their beliefs acknowledged as well, so they want a poster that reflects a more inclusive message than just your personal religion.

That's where this was going, right?...

Do these non Christians who object to people using the term 'Christmas' or who want festivals to be more 'inclusive' actually exist? In the UK when they actually ask Muslims or Hindus etc..whether  they object to terms like this, they don't give a crap. It's always the SJW types who are behind it all. It's the classic being offended on someone else's behalf. It's a moot point anyway since the traditional UK office Christmas party is dying a death these days due to the meToo movement.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2018, 03:38:16 am by eggieguffer »


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2518 on: December 29, 2018, 08:07:11 am »
Quote
Yes, I do see. It's that people at work who you know and possibly like or who even like you have different religious preferences whose religions are celebrated at approximately the same time, and who have paid into the same office party fund as you, would like to have their beliefs acknowledged as well, so they want a poster that reflects a more inclusive message than just your personal religion.

That's where this was going, right?...

Do these non Christians who object to people using the term 'Christmas' or who want festivals to be more 'inclusive' actually exist? In the UK when they actually ask Muslims or Hindus etc..whether  they object to terms like this, they don't give a crap. It's always the SJW types who are behind it all. It's the classic being offended on someone else's behalf.

This may be true, of course.  They may also be "praytheists", a term I've just heard.  That's a non-believer who goes along with the rituals just because it's easier.

It isn't necessarily that people feel offended or insulted, just left out.

Quote

It's a moot point anyway since the traditional UK office Christmas party is dying a death these days due to the meToo movement.

Captain Peacock always cornering Miss Brahms in the broom cupboard.  He's such a lech!


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2519 on: December 29, 2018, 12:37:38 pm »
Quote
Yes, I do see. It's that people at work who you know and possibly like or who even like you have different religious preferences whose religions are celebrated at approximately the same time, and who have paid into the same office party fund as you, would like to have their beliefs acknowledged as well, so they want a poster that reflects a more inclusive message than just your personal religion.

That's where this was going, right?...

Do these non Christians who object to people using the term 'Christmas' or who want festivals to be more 'inclusive' actually exist? In the UK when they actually ask Muslims or Hindus etc..whether  they object to terms like this, they don't give a crap. It's always the SJW types who are behind it all. It's the classic being offended on someone else's behalf. It's a moot point anyway since the traditional UK office Christmas party is dying a death these days due to the meToo movement.

Please describe the traditional UK office Christmas party?