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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2300 on: October 29, 2018, 09:24:02 am »
In the last week, we have the bombs being sent to Trump's foes by a Trump supporter.  All people that Trump had habitually attacked.
It can also be said that those people all have habitually attacked Trump. By that same logic of verbal provocation and responsibility, aren't they responsible? I mean in the case if DeNiro, he went on an expletive filled tirade. Trump tweeted a mocking reply calling him "Punch DeNiro" and saying he sounded punch drunk.

I for one don't think Trump or either of them are responsible. I think if anyone is responsible, it's the Alex Jones types.  Even then, that's a stretch. You can't blame people for what 1 crazy person does.

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We have the guy who killed two black people in a shop in Kentucky after unsuccessfully trying to get into a baptist church. 

Yeah, it's a shame that America never had racist violence until Trump came along.

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We have the WHITE man (sorry, not terrorist, he's a shooter   ) who killed 11 people in a synagogue

Guy hates Trump. It's Trump fault that guy shoots a bunch of people.

Ok.

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There it is.  Arm everyone.  Surely, the fact that four police were shot in the melee, completely dispel any idea that an armed person, in a place of worship would have made any difference. 

He's right. In a world where random crazies pop up out of nowhere, you have to have some means of defense until the cops come.

Not all mass shooters are created equal, but armed citizens or police or off-duty plainclothes have stopped plenty of shootings/crimes. In fact being confronted at times has caused the shooter to either disengage or turn the gun on themselves.

Is it a perfect solution? No. What's the alternative? Ban guns? Good luck with that.

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Anyway, at least the media is showing a level head.

Yes, media heads say dumb stuff like this was a false flag. They also say dumb conspiracy crap like Russia controls the President and the President is Hitler.


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2301 on: October 29, 2018, 10:12:18 am »
"He's playing into the fears of people like you CDW, who read and believe what Fox says..." and say nothing when Trump sends a signal of approval to domestic terrorists.

Trump continues to use abrasive and hateful language to radicalize domestic terrorists.
"Lunatics, they have no political boundaries and to suggest that honest, vigorous, hard-hitting debate and criticism is somehow the motivating force behind one fringe violent individual is intellectually lazy… and frankly nothing but a cheap attempt to capitalize off a serious incident…. I never blamed Bernie Sanders because one of his loyal supporters shot Republican lawmaker, nearly killed Steve Scalise on a baseball field last year…. When something happens to a conservative Democrats have been missing in action, noticeably silent…."

It appears that at least two people here are shamelessly participating in this blame game.

You don't bring Hannity and Fox News to a debate on civility and tolerance. A fear monger working for a fear mongering network.


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2302 on: October 29, 2018, 10:47:42 am »
So I guess The Party of Personal Responsibility is going to try and trade on the Bernie Sanders connection to the guy who shot up the baseball game, instead of taking a hones look in the mirror. Never mind the fact that the rhetoric from Trump and Sanders aren't even remotely similar, and that Sanders didn't spend the Democratic primary campaign season attacking specific Republicans and spreading conspiracy theories about them. Never mind the fact that Sanders lost, and Trump is the President of the United States of America, and should therefore be held to the highest possible standards.

And just to refresh everybody's memory, here is Bernie Sanders talking about the subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2qEjTH4w4g

versus Trump:
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Republicans are doing so well in early voting, and at the polls, and now this “Bomb” stuff happens and the momentum greatly slows - news not talking politics. Very unfortunate, what is going on. Republicans, go out and vote!

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Funny how lowly rated CNN, and others, can criticize me at will, even blaming me for the current spate of Bombs and ridiculously comparing this to September 11th and the Oklahoma City bombing, yet when I criticize them they go wild and scream, “it’s just not Presidential!”
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A very big part of the Anger we see today in our society is caused by the purposely false and inaccurate reporting of the Mainstream Media that I refer to as Fake News. It has gotten so bad and hateful that it is beyond description. Mainstream Media must clean up its act, FAST!



Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2303 on: October 29, 2018, 11:01:02 am »
Whether or not Trump bears personal responsibility is a bit of a distraction. He endorses and contributes to this kind of thing, which needs to stop:






I don't know if Breitbart has stopped bracketing the names of its enemies with stars and globes, but it goes without saying that that isn't exactly responsible either.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 11:09:28 am by Andyman »


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2304 on: October 29, 2018, 11:14:15 am »
So I guess The Party of Personal Responsibility is going to try and trade on the Bernie Sanders connection to the guy who shot up the baseball game, instead of taking a hones look in the mirror. Never mind the fact that the rhetoric from Trump and Sanders aren't even remotely similar, and that Sanders didn't spend the Democratic primary campaign season attacking specific Republicans and spreading conspiracy theories about them. Never mind the fact that Sanders lost, and Trump is the President of the United States of America, and should therefore be held to the highest possible standards.

And just to refresh everybody's memory, here is Bernie Sanders talking about the subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2qEjTH4w4g

versus Trump:
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Republicans are doing so well in early voting, and at the polls, and now this “Bomb” stuff happens and the momentum greatly slows - news not talking politics. Very unfortunate, what is going on. Republicans, go out and vote!

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Funny how lowly rated CNN, and others, can criticize me at will, even blaming me for the current spate of Bombs and ridiculously comparing this to September 11th and the Oklahoma City bombing, yet when I criticize them they go wild and scream, “it’s just not Presidential!”
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A very big part of the Anger we see today in our society is caused by the purposely false and inaccurate reporting of the Mainstream Media that I refer to as Fake News. It has gotten so bad and hateful that it is beyond description. Mainstream Media must clean up its act, FAST!

Another way of thinking is that neither Sanders nor Trump is particularly responsible, nor are their surrogates in the media and other political officials.

Like I said, the only outlet I would even lean towards blaming is Alex Jones and his ilk, and the man has said enough crazy stuff regarding things like 9/11, that it's really hard to call him a full on Trump-surrogate even though he is pro-Trump at the moment.

A WWE tweet of him body slamming a CNN logo is not an incitement to violence unless you're a total idiot. That's like suggesting some comedian taking a spanking paddle to George W. Bush is an incitement to violence. Is it sophomoric? Sure. Beneath the office of the presidency? You can certainly claim that. An incitement to violence? Please. It was pro wrestling and a logo. Give me a break.

Unless you're consistent and also blame the media and "the resistance" for their over-the-top language and influence, as well as things like rap music for inner city violence and violent video games AND gun manufacturers AND Hollywood for school shootings and glorifying violence, then you are not part of the rational conversation. You are simply a partisan cheerleader at that point who retroactively searches for sources for blame in response to incidents that take place.

Or, you know, you can say that the people who blame Trump or violent video games or the media are taking things way overboard and the only person responsible for a crazy guy living in a van down by the river mailing dud bombs is the crazy guy in a van down by the river.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 11:16:01 am by Mr.DeMartino »


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2305 on: October 29, 2018, 11:46:32 am »
You do realise words have power.  Do you think that matters to Trump? Of course not.  He couldn't give a shit. 
What words did Trump say that made that guy decide to mail bombs to people? And if his words have such power, how come 60 million of his supporters aren't all mailing bombs and running amok?

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Martin, again, you're defending the indefensible.

Fine, what would you have Trump do? If you listen to his critics, it would be to stop campaigning (while all the Dems running continue to campaign), and promise to only say nice things about Democrats and then start supporting Democratic policies. Whatever. This isn't about what Trump should realistically do, it's about him groveling while the left gets to finger wag. He's not going to do it.

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Gun control, as has been proved in other countries, including proper background checks, a waiting period after passing tests, limiting what guns people can have etc, has meant lower death rates from gun massacres.
And higher death rates from truck massacres.

Anyways, let's take this same logic to drugs. The U.S. has way more drug ODs than many countries in East Asia. Perhaps we should ban drugs and brutally crack down on offenders and socially shame the use of drugs.

As far as gun control, I do disagree with some of the hardline stances of the NRA, but it's often been shown that in the case of many mass shootings, "common sense" gun control wouldn't have stopped them. I do agree that they probably reduce the numbers and hence, why I disagree with the hardliners, but there's only so much you can do. The problem is that the Dems won't stop at "common sense". They'll push and push and push. Just look at all the SJW stuff on the left. You give an inch and they just come back with some new outrage. Or look at the UK- now they talk of banning knives.

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Always the Hitler thing.  Move on, Martin, move on. 

Tell that to the lefties who constantly say that Trump is a fascist and compare our country to 1933 Germany.


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2306 on: October 29, 2018, 12:21:03 pm »
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Gun control, as has been proved in other countries, including proper background checks, a waiting period after passing tests, limiting what guns people can have etc, has meant lower death rates from gun massacres.
And higher death rates from truck massacres.
Anyways, let's take this same logic to drugs. The U.S. has way more drug ODs than many countries in East Asia. Perhaps we should ban drugs and brutally crack down on offenders and socially shame the use of drugs.

As far as gun control, I do disagree with some of the hardline stances of the NRA, but it's often been shown that in the case of many mass shootings, "common sense" gun control wouldn't have stopped them. I do agree that they probably reduce the numbers and hence, why I disagree with the hardliners, but there's only so much you can do. The problem is that the Dems won't stop at "common sense". They'll push and push and push. Just look at all the SJW stuff on the left. You give an inch and they just come back with some new outrage. Or look at the UK- now they talk of banning knives.
   Gun control shouldn't be a partisan issue. Reducing the ridiculously high rate of gun-related deaths in the USA is something that both of the major American parties should be including in their platforms.
While the all-or-nothing gun-control debate is pretty stupid, some kind of gun-control is definitely something the US needs to implement. Only the NRA and those they've bought, bribed, or brainwashed would ever argue that the US needs more guns, not less.  :laugh:

     But I agree in that it will never be truly effective in eradicating violent crime: gun-control is a bandage for a symptom, not a cure. What really needs to change is gun-culture. That movies will freely show people being mowed down by the dozens, but will not show a bit of nudity is absolutely mind-boggling: why in the world is violent death more socially acceptable than sex????? (Don't get me wrong: I enjoy watching the occasional bloodbath too. But I know that I probably shouldn't. So conflicted!  :cry:)

   The glamour of violence needs to be replaced with stigma in order to change what American society considers to be tolerable or not.

And your insinuation that any supposed increase in the frequency of "truck massacres" would balance out the massive decrease in gun related killings is laughable to the point of being absurd.  :laugh:
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 02:09:14 pm by kyndo »


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2307 on: October 29, 2018, 12:51:56 pm »
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Or, you know, you can say that the people who blame Trump or violent video games or the media are taking things way overboard and the only person responsible for a crazy guy living in a van down by the river mailing dud bombs is the crazy guy in a van down by the river.

You can also say that in reacting to the crazy guy in a van down by the river, Trump had a choice between acting like a scumbag and a decent person. He chose the scumbag path once again, while his pious, God-fearing, flag-waving followers cheered him on as he made excuses for and blamed the intended victims of domestic terrorism.


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2308 on: October 30, 2018, 03:17:04 am »
I think the Media is more responsible for the hostility, and also the democrats.  If you look at antifa bashing people just for supporting trump.

I mean trump is a law and order president, so if you do something crazy because of trump then it’s because you are crazy.  Nothing more.
Bonzai!


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2309 on: October 30, 2018, 01:12:24 pm »
In an interview with Laura Ingraham, Trump says asylum seekers will be kept in tents at the border until their cases can be ruled on. This is certainly a step in the right direction- no more disappearing into the general population and not bothering to show up for your hearing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Juk7wCe0ZNg


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2310 on: October 30, 2018, 01:42:29 pm »
I think the Media is more responsible for the hostility, and also the democrats.  If you look at antifa bashing people just for supporting trump.

I mean trump is a law and order president, so if you do something crazy because of trump then it’s because you are crazy.  Nothing more.

We get it, you guys will incite terrorism against your opponents and then blame the victims because you have no shame or sense of responsibility for what you've done. I'm sure there will be no repercussions for this.
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Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on Yesterday at 01:40:32 PM
    Trump is a liar and a con man.
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Quote from Mr.DeMartino on June 14, 2019 at 02:28:07 pm
Donald Trump is a lying sack of shit


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2311 on: October 30, 2018, 02:43:47 pm »
In an interview with Laura Ingraham, Trump says asylum seekers will be kept in tents at the border until their cases can be ruled on. This is certainly a step in the right direction- no more disappearing into the general population and not bothering to show up for your hearing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Juk7wCe0ZNg

You've cited Hannity and now Laura Ingraham. Racist Lou Dobbs next?


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2312 on: October 30, 2018, 02:59:50 pm »
Looking ahead to the midterms, what's your guys' predictions?

I'm seeing Dems possibly getting a 10 or so seat margin in the House. Between lean Dem/Tossup/LeanGOP, I expect GOP to win maybe a couple of the lean-Dem seats (always some outliers) and the Dems to win 2/3rds of the tossups and a handful of lean-GOP. That would be around 225-210 for the Dems. I'd say a 40% chance of something like this happening. 20% both for Dem Tsunami and Dem squeaker. Maybe a 15% chance of Republican squeaker and 5% chance of some sort of massive polling error and Repubs +10 or more.

Senate?
Looks like Heller is in trouble in Nevada. Possibly Cruz in Texas, though that is a tough nut to crack. I think Heitkamp and McCaskill are probably gone. I'd say Tester and Donnelly barely hang on. Manchin should be about a 5 pt win for the Dems. I'd give the edge to McSally in Arizona as Sinema has had one too many gaffes. I really don't think Dems will get the Senate. In fact, I think it's more likely Repubs end up 55-60.

I heard the Dem candidate for Idaho Gov. might surprise. Maybe 27-23 Dems for Gov.

The wildcard is of course voter enthusiasm. Dem voters are really motivated, but I've noticed massive energy on the GOP side. The thing is that Republicans are really disciplined voters. Dems could get something like 48 million midterm votes which is 5 million more than 2006, and the GOP could pull in 50-52 million. Then the question is the rumored defection of GOP suburban women as well as how independents go.

Unless Repubs get a strong Senate result and Dems get a good House result (divided government, yay!), one side or the other will be eating a massive slice of humble pie. So I'm guessing that the Repubs defy the odds and get a strong Senate result and the Dems match the odds and do well in the House and everyone thinks they've won and get to continue yelling at each other for the next 2 years.


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2313 on: October 30, 2018, 03:10:55 pm »


The wildcard is of course voter enthusiasm. Dem voters are really motivated, but I've noticed massive energy on the GOP side. The thing is that Republicans are really disciplined voters enfranchised.

FTFY

i don't really disagree with any of your predictions, though i don't really care much about predictions or elections anyways.


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2314 on: October 30, 2018, 03:34:07 pm »
FTFY

i don't really disagree with any of your predictions, though i don't really care much about predictions or elections anyways.
We are at the easiest point in US history for voting. While I do agree that the gamesmanship employed by Republicans is ethically dubious at best, many of the claims of "voter suppression" are rather hyperbolic. In many cases, the rules affect Trump's base of poor whites as much as the Dem base. In fact, those rules may end up being a thorn in the side of Republicans in the future if say, the Democrats become an increasingly suburban-upper class party. That would certainly be a well-deserved irony. As far as gerrymandering, that is simply reflective of which party controls the levers of government, their willingness to compromise, and the level of resistance the opposition party in each state can muster. No party can resist the temptation to stack the deck.

It should be noted that class often dictates the parties as much as race. At one point, the Dem base consisted of immigrant Irish, Italians, and some Germans, as well as Southern whites. There was little love lost between these groups, but they shared working class economics as a concern. The Republicans for a time were the party of both upper class whites and freed blacks. Later the Dems added blacks to their coalition, despite the fact that racial tensions continued.

If the Republicans migrate to an increasingly poor rural party, you might see them evolve into also making a pitch towards the urban poor, while the Democrats become increasingly suburban and consistent of "New immigrants" with tech skills, as well as minorities who have joined the middle and upper classes. That's not to say this will happen, and people may scoff, but parties are evolutionary and adaptive entities. 


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2315 on: October 31, 2018, 04:19:41 am »
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Trump did not put the bombs in the mail or pull the trigger in Pittsburgh or Louisville, but he has contributed to a mood in which anti-Semitism has soared in America under his leadership, with anti-Semitic incidents rising 57 percent in 2017 alone, according to the Anti-Defamation League. That is the largest year-on-year increase in over four decades…it is the behavior of Trump and those around them that has given permission for the haters to step out from the shadows, and into a more visible role in American public discourse.                 
By haters, they mean you jimbo.

For those blaming the media, why wasn't this stuff happening when Obama was president? The media was the same then as it is now. trump spends his time stoking the culture wars and those southerners who haven't accepted they lost the Civil War and the like eat it up as if it were fried okra and grits. How long until domestic terrorism becomes a daily pccurrence and we may as well be living in the ME?

As for the elections, they may come down to how many voters states like Texas and Georgia can disenfranchise. I had to show my driver's license to vote even though I had a voter registration ID. I asked what the voter registration card was for and they said for your information. republicans sure don't believe in democracy.



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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2316 on: October 31, 2018, 09:58:24 am »
The 14th Amendment:

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside...."

I think this should not apply to the children born of illegals, tourists, and diplomats. There is some debate about how to interpret "subject to the jurisdiction thereof". If Trump issues an executive order then the Supreme Court may end up deciding the matter eventually. The Supreme Court has a conservative majority (two of whom are Trump's picks). So that could work in his favor.



Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2317 on: October 31, 2018, 10:50:24 am »
Looking ahead to the midterms, what's your guys' predictions?

I'm seeing Dems possibly getting a 10 or so seat margin in the House. Between lean Dem/Tossup/LeanGOP, I expect GOP to win maybe a couple of the lean-Dem seats (always some outliers) and the Dems to win 2/3rds of the tossups and a handful of lean-GOP. That would be around 225-210 for the Dems. I'd say a 40% chance of something like this happening. 20% both for Dem Tsunami and Dem squeaker. Maybe a 15% chance of Republican squeaker and 5% chance of some sort of massive polling error and Repubs +10 or more.

Senate?
Looks like Heller is in trouble in Nevada. Possibly Cruz in Texas, though that is a tough nut to crack. I think Heitkamp and McCaskill are probably gone. I'd say Tester and Donnelly barely hang on. Manchin should be about a 5 pt win for the Dems. I'd give the edge to McSally in Arizona as Sinema has had one too many gaffes. I really don't think Dems will get the Senate. In fact, I think it's more likely Repubs end up 55-60.

I heard the Dem candidate for Idaho Gov. might surprise. Maybe 27-23 Dems for Gov.

The wildcard is of course voter enthusiasm. Dem voters are really motivated, but I've noticed massive energy on the GOP side. The thing is that Republicans are really disciplined voters. Dems could get something like 48 million midterm votes which is 5 million more than 2006, and the GOP could pull in 50-52 million. Then the question is the rumored defection of GOP suburban women as well as how independents go.

Unless Repubs get a strong Senate result and Dems get a good House result (divided government, yay!), one side or the other will be eating a massive slice of humble pie. So I'm guessing that the Repubs defy the odds and get a strong Senate result and the Dems match the odds and do well in the House and everyone thinks they've won and get to continue yelling at each other for the next 2 years.

All I'm going to say about it is that voting against Ted Cruz was easily the most satisfying vote of my life. Whatever the outcome, I'm glad I got to do it.


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2318 on: October 31, 2018, 11:27:55 am »
Being a political junkie who loves the game more than the players or the teams, even though I have my team, I must say I can't help but picture 538's website with a story 'Did Monday Night Football Cost Ted Cruz the Election?" With a picture of sad Cruz face.


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2319 on: October 31, 2018, 12:09:48 pm »
One more week, and we will see if the Democrats will take over the house and the Senate.