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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #60 on: February 10, 2017, 01:45:15 pm »
Yes Democrats, Conway just gave you the tools to impeach Donald Trump. I'm sure the country will rally behind an attempt to impeach Trump over that or failing that, just get her fired.

The Democrats are getting outmaneuvered worse than the GOP was during the primaries.

Apparently what Conway did is some great crime (most Americans see something that should get her suspended for a couple weeks or fined at most). The Democrats in a bid to oppose Trump on immigration have all but embraced open borders and open defiance of any immigration laws. Their entire reputation as a party rests on whether or not any of those refugees decides to commit a terrorist act. All it takes is one of them shooting up a school and the Dems are finished for the next two elections. They could have played in smart and had a nucleus of NeverTrumpers while have some voices speak publicly about immigration reform and increasing border and refugee security, but they caved to the Huffpo/Salon wing of the party and now are left claiming essentially that people from Libya, Syria, Sudan, etc. pose no danger.

The women's march was great for the left and was a freak show to middle and right-wing america. The Dems can't win on judges and are left with praying for the good health of Octogenarians Kennedy, Breyer and Ginsburg and the diabetic and overweight Sotomayor.

Don't worry, I am sure there are plenty of honest, hard-working, legal Americans willing to shoot up a school, just as they have done in the past.


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #61 on: February 10, 2017, 01:47:27 pm »
Yes Democrats, Conway just gave you the tools to impeach Donald Trump. I'm sure the country will rally behind an attempt to impeach Trump over that or failing that, just get her fired.

The Democrats are getting outmaneuvered worse than the GOP was during the primaries.

Apparently what Conway did is some great crime (most Americans see something that should get her suspended for a couple weeks or fined at most). The Democrats in a bid to oppose Trump on immigration have all but embraced open borders and open defiance of any immigration laws. Their entire reputation as a party rests on whether or not any of those refugees decides to commit a terrorist act. All it takes is one of them shooting up a school and the Dems are finished for the next two elections. They could have played in smart and had a nucleus of NeverTrumpers while have some voices speak publicly about immigration reform and increasing border and refugee security, but they caved to the Huffpo/Salon wing of the party and now are left claiming essentially that people from Libya, Syria, Sudan, etc. pose no danger.

The women's march was great for the left and was a freak show to middle and right-wing america. The Dems can't win on judges and are left with praying for the good health of Octogenarians Kennedy, Breyer and Ginsburg and the diabetic and overweight Sotomayor.

That kid who shot up Sandy Hook was from which Muslim country?


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #62 on: February 10, 2017, 01:50:02 pm »
Yes Democrats, Conway just gave you the tools to impeach Donald Trump. I'm sure the country will rally behind an attempt to impeach Trump over that or failing that, just get her fired.

The Democrats are getting outmaneuvered worse than the GOP was during the primaries.

Apparently what Conway did is some great crime (most Americans see something that should get her suspended for a couple weeks or fined at most). The Democrats in a bid to oppose Trump on immigration have all but embraced open borders and open defiance of any immigration laws. Their entire reputation as a party rests on whether or not any of those refugees decides to commit a terrorist act. All it takes is one of them shooting up a school and the Dems are finished for the next two elections. They could have played in smart and had a nucleus of NeverTrumpers while have some voices speak publicly about immigration reform and increasing border and refugee security, but they caved to the Huffpo/Salon wing of the party and now are left claiming essentially that people from Libya, Syria, Sudan, etc. pose no danger.

The women's march was great for the left and was a freak show to middle and right-wing america. The Dems can't win on judges and are left with praying for the good health of Octogenarians Kennedy, Breyer and Ginsburg and the diabetic and overweight Sotomayor.

That kid who shot up Sandy Hook was from which Muslim country?

Nice try!  Everyone knows that was a hoax.


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #63 on: February 10, 2017, 02:19:58 pm »
Yes Democrats, Conway just gave you the tools to impeach Donald Trump. I'm sure the country will rally behind an attempt to impeach Trump over that or failing that, just get her fired.

The Democrats are getting outmaneuvered worse than the GOP was during the primaries.

Apparently what Conway did is some great crime (most Americans see something that should get her suspended for a couple weeks or fined at most). The Democrats in a bid to oppose Trump on immigration have all but embraced open borders and open defiance of any immigration laws. Their entire reputation as a party rests on whether or not any of those refugees decides to commit a terrorist act. All it takes is one of them shooting up a school and the Dems are finished for the next two elections. They could have played in smart and had a nucleus of NeverTrumpers while have some voices speak publicly about immigration reform and increasing border and refugee security, but they caved to the Huffpo/Salon wing of the party and now are left claiming essentially that people from Libya, Syria, Sudan, etc. pose no danger.

The women's march was great for the left and was a freak show to middle and right-wing america. The Dems can't win on judges and are left with praying for the good health of Octogenarians Kennedy, Breyer and Ginsburg and the diabetic and overweight Sotomayor.

That kid who shot up Sandy Hook was from which Muslim country?

Nope, but the next one might be. And if it is, the Dems are going to pay an enormous political price. If you get a school shooting or a Nice type attack and body county, it's over for the Dems at least until 2022.

The thing is that the Dems are putting their reputation into the hands of outside actors (always a bad move) they have no control over and if just one out of 100,000 is a terrorist in disguise (which mathematically, the odds virtually dictate it), then oof...Meanwhile if nothing happens, Trump gets to claim victory "I brought law and order. Made America safe again. Winning." It's a bad all around position for the Democrats.

They could have prevented this by having a superficial split within the party- the liberal Sanders-Warren wing goes hard after Trump on this along with a good chunk of the base. Meanwhile, Durbin, Manchin, and a few others look at ways of strengthening safeguards while trying to push a compromise piece of legislation. That way, you have political cover if an attack takes place.



Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #64 on: February 10, 2017, 02:43:26 pm »
Yes Democrats, Conway just gave you the tools to impeach Donald Trump. I'm sure the country will rally behind an attempt to impeach Trump over that or failing that, just get her fired.

The Democrats are getting outmaneuvered worse than the GOP was during the primaries.

Apparently what Conway did is some great crime (most Americans see something that should get her suspended for a couple weeks or fined at most). The Democrats in a bid to oppose Trump on immigration have all but embraced open borders and open defiance of any immigration laws. Their entire reputation as a party rests on whether or not any of those refugees decides to commit a terrorist act. All it takes is one of them shooting up a school and the Dems are finished for the next two elections. They could have played in smart and had a nucleus of NeverTrumpers while have some voices speak publicly about immigration reform and increasing border and refugee security, but they caved to the Huffpo/Salon wing of the party and now are left claiming essentially that people from Libya, Syria, Sudan, etc. pose no danger.

The women's march was great for the left and was a freak show to middle and right-wing america. The Dems can't win on judges and are left with praying for the good health of Octogenarians Kennedy, Breyer and Ginsburg and the diabetic and overweight Sotomayor.

That kid who shot up Sandy Hook was from which Muslim country?

Nope, but the next one might be. And if it is, the Dems are going to pay an enormous political price. If you get a school shooting or a Nice type attack and body county, it's over for the Dems at least until 2022.

The thing is that the Dems are putting their reputation into the hands of outside actors (always a bad move) they have no control over and if just one out of 100,000 is a terrorist in disguise (which mathematically, the odds virtually dictate it), then oof...Meanwhile if nothing happens, Trump gets to claim victory "I brought law and order. Made America safe again. Winning." It's a bad all around position for the Democrats.

They could have prevented this by having a superficial split within the party- the liberal Sanders-Warren wing goes hard after Trump on this along with a good chunk of the base. Meanwhile, Durbin, Manchin, and a few others look at ways of strengthening safeguards while trying to push a compromise piece of legislation. That way, you have political cover if an attack takes place.

Could you please state the source of the statistics that you used to calculate these odds?

Here are mine.
http://www.lifeinsurancequotes.org/additional-resources/deadly-statistics/

Frankly, it would be utterly stupid for a country of 300 million to fear a single radicalised terrorist getting through (in disguise*) and killing a small handful of people.

* disguised as what?  I am imagining those Groucho glasses.


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #65 on: February 10, 2017, 04:23:00 pm »
Have there been significant terrorist attacks since 9/11 in the U.S. and Europe? Have they been motivated by terrorist ideology? The Bataclan attacks involved two people from Iraq. They have received training and logistical support from those countries. The countries on the list (except Iran, which I don't think should be on the list) all have governments that are basically destabilized and have spotty records at best. They are also countries which have been racked by sectarian violence.

Now, what percentage are going to either engage in terrorist acts or fund or otherwise support terror? Probably less than 1%. Maybe like 1 in 10,000~100,000. Some rather small number.

But that's not the point. The point is that there probably are at least a handful that are going to have terrorist sympathies and all it takes is one of them shooting up a school or mall and there is going to be a tremendous backlash and political consequences for the Democrats. It's not like guns are hard to get in the U.S. and there are plenty of soft targets. And yes, odds and similar incidents by native born Americans will all show that the level of risk is low, but that won't matter politically, not just to the Trump base, but large swaths of middle America as well. You get 20 dead kids at a school by a Syrian refugee, and you will get 60 seats for the Republicans in the Senate and a 60% majority in the House at least and the Dems will be in a really awkward position.

I don't agree with freaking out over Muslims, but I also think that the Democrats are playing with fire here and if they fail to acknowledge the fact that a terrorist attack might occur, they will pay a terrible political price at the worst possible time.


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #66 on: February 10, 2017, 04:27:19 pm »
Quote
quote author=thunderlips
The election has been beaten to death on here. We are NOT talking about the whys or hows. This is about Trump's inability to govern now. The election is over, thank you dog.

Try arguing why you think Trump won't be impeached post election please.                             

Besides responding to another personís comments, thatís exactly what I have done; however, just like the election you wonít accept the real reasons.  In summary:

1.  After how badly the elitist media got burned on election day, because they did not actually report on the campaign, to keep drinking their Kool-Aid and stating things like ďTrumpís inability to govern" will not lead to impeachment, but to a second term; if he wants one.  Many of us like the way he is governing.

2.  Trump does have strong support, and this support is not diminishing.  People like that he is doing what he said he would do.

3.  Following through is Trumpís key to success.  As long as he keeps the Democrats and elitist media running around screaming impeachment and that the world is ending, and not really focusing on the issues and how to build a coalition to win 270 electoral votes, Trump has the advantage.

For the technically oriented people, remember that impeachment has to start in the House of Representatives.  Furthermore, an anti-Trump elitist media article does not constitute grounds for impeachment.  In addition, the Republicans control the House and will control it to at least 2020 when redistricting takes place.  It would be suicidal for the Republican House of Representatives to vote for impeachment (they would lose the House in 2018 or 2020). 

Read up on what it actually took to get to the point where Nixon resigned, and all that first had to happen.  In addition, many believe that if Nixon had just burned the tapes that impeachment would not have been possible, and that he would have finished his second term.

Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_States

To date, no U.S. President has been removed from office by impeachment and conviction.

At the federal level, Article II of the United States Constitution states in Section 4 that "The President, Vice President, and all civil Officers of the United States shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other High Crimes and Misdemeanors." The House of Representatives has the sole power of impeaching, while the United States Senate has the sole power to try all impeachments.
                               
ďAll of this has happened before, and will happen again.Ē


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #67 on: February 10, 2017, 07:36:14 pm »
I still do not know how possible it is to answer this question.  I can't see how you can call for impeachment when the basis has, as far as I have seen, been established.  What are "high crimes and misdemeanors"?

Even during moves to impeach and convict former Presidents, the grounds for "high crimes and misdemeanors" have been defined by bad faith arguments at best.  The Radicals did not like Andrew Johnson (and who can blame them), while Nixon did far worse than what he was actually was impeached for and would have been convicted for had he not resigned.  I find it extraordinarily difficult to believe that Republicans genuinely believed that Clinton's sexual escapades and subsequent perjury constituted an impeachable offense. 

The Trump administration has been appalling, but in the past impeachment proceedings have been guided by political animosities, not by some profound respect for the law.   Speculation just for the hell of it:  I could see Trump being impeached if he pissed off people with access to the point where they were much more open to leaking damaging documents or his popularity fell to historical lows (even Nixon still had favorability ratings of about 1/4 of the population at the end of his term). 

Instead of looking at impeachment, maybe it would be better to create an effective opposition?  With very little exception, the Democrats do not seem to be capable of that.  It would be nice if there could be more viable political parties in the States.  The Democratic strategy still seems to be similar to the strategy Clinton used during her campaign, red-baiting, etc.

Unless someone can convincingly define what "crimes and misdemeanors" are and explain why impeachment is not an inherently political process, I think it is just as well to look at pictures of fish. 


  • Adel
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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #68 on: February 13, 2017, 05:26:50 am »
I still do not know how possible it is to answer this question.  I can't see how you can call for impeachment when the basis has, as far as I have seen, been established.  What are "high crimes and misdemeanors"?

Unless someone can convincingly define what "crimes and misdemeanors" are and explain why impeachment is not an inherently political process, I think it is just as well to look at pictures of fish.

As much as I too am a fan of red herrings, I'm nonetheless interested in why you've focused on "crimes and misdemeanors" to the exclusion of 'treason and bribery' as stated in Article II Section 4?

That said, rather than 'calling for his impeachment', some of us are more interested in speculating as to when or whether that call will come. At the moment though it would appear that there are several fertile areas for further investigation.

As a side note, it's a shame that mental competence isn't a valid grounding for impeachment. Donald's constant battle with reality would well fulfil that requirement.


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #69 on: February 13, 2017, 09:36:40 am »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYNN87txLWQ

Watch that starting at 47:18. Interesting bit about Putin in there.


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #70 on: February 13, 2017, 10:44:28 am »
It was evident leading up to the election that Trump and his supporters have little to no concern for democratic principles like the rule of law and separation of powers, let alone truth and objectivity.  It looks as though Trump may provide this democratic experiment with its ultimate stress test thus far. The scary part is there are no guarantees that the constitution will stand up to this test which probably wouldn't concern Trump supporters either.


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #71 on: February 13, 2017, 10:53:57 am »
In eight years no one every started an impeach Obama thread? Or was it disappeared? This site is so biased itís pathetic. Remember how the whole Trump phenomenon started with pages and pages of people saying terrible things about Trump and his supporters, but once people started saying positive things about Trump it got deleted? And then new threads about Trump were also deleted? Why do you people behave in this way? You create your own echo chambers. Noise builds on noise, escalating till it drowns out what little original thought you had. This thread is absurd.     


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #72 on: February 13, 2017, 11:08:25 am »
In eight years no one every started an impeach Obama thread? Or was it disappeared? This site is so biased itís pathetic. Remember how the whole Trump phenomenon started with pages and pages of people saying terrible things about Trump and his supporters, but once people started saying positive things about Trump it got deleted? And then new threads about Trump were also deleted? Why do you people behave in this way? You create your own echo chambers. Noise builds on noise, escalating till it drowns out what little original thought you had. This thread is absurd.   

Sean Spicer! Is that you?


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #73 on: February 13, 2017, 01:26:09 pm »
In eight years no one every started an impeach Obama thread? Or was it disappeared? This site is so biased itís pathetic. Remember how the whole Trump phenomenon started with pages and pages of people saying terrible things about Trump and his supporters, but once people started saying positive things about Trump it got deleted? And then new threads about Trump were also deleted? Why do you people behave in this way? You create your own echo chambers. Noise builds on noise, escalating till it drowns out what little original thought you had. This thread is absurd.   

SJW detected.
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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #74 on: February 13, 2017, 02:43:42 pm »
In eight years no one every started an impeach Obama thread? Or was it disappeared? This site is so biased itís pathetic. Remember how the whole Trump phenomenon started with pages and pages of people saying terrible things about Trump and his supporters, but once people started saying positive things about Trump it got deleted? And then new threads about Trump were also deleted? Why do you people behave in this way? You create your own echo chambers. Noise builds on noise, escalating till it drowns out what little original thought you had. This thread is absurd.   

I hate being on the #loltrumpisdumb train, but people generally agree on something that is logical. People hating Trump for constantly doing stupid things is just the logical progression. Being wary of the man is natural. It's not so much an echochamber, but stating facts lol. We aren't just going to ignore the guy

But yeah, mods deleting positive things about Trump was creepy and pathetic. There was absolutely no excuse for deleting threads/comments just because some people actually like the man. In that way, I suppose you could say there was an echochamber (an artificial one at that).

Which sucks, because it just gives people like you a leg to stand on. It gives the slightest credibility to the nonsense you spout. But I suppose that's what happens when thin-skinned people abuse their power  :sad:


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #75 on: February 13, 2017, 03:15:17 pm »
I did not know the mods had deleted Trump threads.  They're pretty useless in general, but being actively useless is worse.


  • Ptolemy
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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #76 on: February 13, 2017, 05:00:06 pm »
But yeah, mods deleting positive things about Trump was creepy and pathetic.
It works.

Just more evidence that liberal fascism is woven all through the system; the university, the media, corporations, web site owners. Promote "stuff liberals say" because that's morally right, delete "stuff conservatives say" because they are evil. People are waking up to it, free speech enforcement is coming...frantically delete while you can fascists.


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #77 on: February 13, 2017, 05:17:17 pm »
I did not know the mods had deleted Trump threads.  They're pretty useless in general, but being actively useless is worse.

Fake news, I suspect!.
Trump supporters live on the stuff along with Imagined conspiracies and alternative facts. Just read his Tweets. Pure fantasy mostly. Sad!


  • Ptolemy
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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #78 on: February 13, 2017, 05:24:48 pm »
I did not know the mods had deleted Trump threads.

Fake news, I suspect!.

Probably someone said Pocahontas, tee hee hee...

Because that is "hate speech" you know...


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #79 on: February 13, 2017, 07:37:49 pm »
I did not know the mods had deleted Trump threads.

Fake news, I suspect!.

Probably someone said Pocahontas, tee hee hee...

Because that is "hate speech" you know...

So the Democrats can refer to Trump as a Nazi since his father emigrated from there. If you're not offended by people being reduced to offensive stereotypes then I guess Fuhrer Trump is your man.

#SCROTUS