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  • Adel
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American carnage
« Reply #3140 on: January 21, 2021, 02:47:35 am »



What exactly is this magical thing that makes our elections so fraud proof? And why do you believe it to be so? Because talking heads told you so?



Absolutely nobody said this. You've yet to show an example to the contrary.



David Byrne dude! Talking Heads! :laugh:


 Sounds like somebody's ready for their lobotomy!
« Last Edit: January 21, 2021, 03:49:49 am by Adel »


  • Kyndo
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Re: When will Trump be impeached? -2019 Better late than never- Congratulations!
« Reply #3141 on: January 21, 2021, 07:30:14 am »
Who says you can't see the results of the audits? Here's Georgia's: https://sos.ga.gov/admin/uploads/county-summary-data.pdf
Cool, I wasn't aware that Georgia did this. Smart.
It's a great precedent. If each state was required to do the same, I think it would certainly boost people's confidence in the system. Transparency usually does.

     Auditing is a costly and timely procedure.
    Georgia re-counted and audited their results. The result was the same but the same people (see the broken MAGA follower above) would continually  shout fraud.

     I think it would be a good idea to streamline the process, and make the databases more accessible once the votes have been counted. Reduce the cost of performing an audit to the point where organizations other than the government will be able to perform them.

     I'm speculating here, but I think that a big part of the problem was that it was the state of Georgia that did the audit. I assume that there's a certain percentage of the population who would just assume that the state government was in on the scam. If the results were available to the average Joe, then there would be less grounds for suspicion.

   I realize that a lot of this is easier said than done, but I think it's a worthwhile ideal to strive for.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2021, 07:36:09 am by Kyndo »


Re: When will Trump be impeached? -2019 Better late than never- Congratulations!
« Reply #3142 on: January 21, 2021, 04:01:21 pm »
Cool, I wasn't aware that Georgia did this. Smart.
It's a great precedent. If each state was required to do the same, I think it would certainly boost people's confidence in the system. Transparency usually does.

     I think it would be a good idea to streamline the process, and make the databases more accessible once the votes have been counted. Reduce the cost of performing an audit to the point where organizations other than the government will be able to perform them.

     I'm speculating here, but I think that a big part of the problem was that it was the state of Georgia that did the audit. I assume that there's a certain percentage of the population who would just assume that the state government was in on the scam. If the results were available to the average Joe, then there would be less grounds for suspicion.

   I realize that a lot of this is easier said than done, but I think it's a worthwhile ideal to strive for.
The GA SoS stuff, while a start, didn't really address the issues people were asking, nor provide much in the way of information.

While the vote should be secret, we also have to be as transparent as possible with everything else.

Did that actually happen? The evidence overwhelmingly says no.
The evidence overwhelmingly says no on Russia, but well...

I suppose if it's okay to have a Mueller probe, it should be okay to have a probe on into elections. Really go through everything and try and catch people in lies and all that.


  • fka
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Re: When will Trump be impeached? -2019 Better late than never- Congratulations!
« Reply #3143 on: January 21, 2021, 06:25:08 pm »
Oh, cool. Russia.


  • gogators!
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Re: When will Trump be impeached? -2019 Better late than never- Congratulations!
« Reply #3144 on: January 21, 2021, 08:06:56 pm »
The GA SoS stuff, while a start, didn't really address the issues people were asking, nor provide much in the way of information.

While the vote should be secret, we also have to be as transparent as possible with everything else.
The evidence overwhelmingly says no on Russia, but well...

I suppose if it's okay to have a Mueller probe, it should be okay to have a probe on into elections. Really go through everything and try and catch people in lies and all that.
There would never be enough information to satisfy the current conspiracy believers and trumpists like yourself.  However, we saw how quickly the talking heads backed down when threatened with legal action.


Re: When will Trump be impeached? -2019 Better late than never- Congratulations!
« Reply #3145 on: January 22, 2021, 11:20:59 am »
Oh, cool. Russia.
Sorry you lot don't get to do this after screaming about for close to five years and only now stopping because you finally realize what a pathetic sham it was.


  • Mr C
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Re: When will Trump be impeached? -2019 Better late than never- Congratulations!
« Reply #3146 on: January 22, 2021, 11:53:52 am »
Sorry you lot don't get to do this after screaming about for close to five years and only now stopping because you finally realize what a pathetic sham it was.

You keep saying this but it is the opposite, as you well know.  The Russian government attempted to interfere in the US election in 2016, as the final report from the REPUBLICAN-LED Senate committee stated strongly and in no uncertain terms.  And did so on behalf of Trump and/or against Clinton.  Period.


  • fka
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Re: When will Trump be impeached? -2019 Better late than never- Congratulations!
« Reply #3147 on: January 22, 2021, 12:18:12 pm »
I think Martino has settled on his own fantasy version of the Russia investigation as a sort of superweapon that can be deployed in all circumstances to validate any point he's trying make, or contradict anyone else's argument. It's somewhat effective in that often leaves the conversation at a dead end, being so irrelevant to the topic at hand that few people will feel compelled to get dragged along this diversion route. It's unfortunate that that happens, but it seems to be working for him.

Less effective is the Merchants of Doubt-style attempt to make proponents of electoral fraud conspiracy theories seem more credible. Martino won't attach himself to any strong claim (ie., "X number of election officials in County X were engaged in manipulation of mail-in ballots, resulting in X number of illegitimate votes going to Biden")  because these claims are falsifiable, but will instead offer some vague hand-waving about how there's nothing wrong with asking questions, how systems aren't perfect, how incentives for cheating exist, how other countries also have problems... All claims which virtually everyone agrees with and aren't falsifiable. I'm not really sure what his objective is (spare Trump and his supporters some embarrassment? maintain a negative spotlight on Democrats?) but his method is transparent. 


Re: When will Trump be impeached? -2019 Better late than never- Congratulations!
« Reply #3148 on: January 22, 2021, 12:32:52 pm »
You keep saying this but it is the opposite, as you well know.  The Russian government attempted to interfere in the US election in 2016, as the final report from the REPUBLICAN-LED Senate committee stated strongly and in no uncertain terms.  And did so on behalf of Trump and/or against Clinton.  Period.
Yeah and that interference amounted to the equivalent of a few fans shouting "Brick!!!" while Shaq missed a free throw in a game the Lakers turned the ball over 25 times and shot 35% in.

Only idiots think it had any bearing on the outcome. It was just used as an excuse to go after Trump.


  • fka
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Re: When will Trump be impeached? -2019 Better late than never- Congratulations!
« Reply #3149 on: January 22, 2021, 02:30:33 pm »
So if you have a big problem with politically motivated investigations, then surely you remember the 2017 Presidential Advisory Commission on Electoral Integrity, with Mike Pence and Kris Kobach at the helm. And you'll know that it failed to produce any evidence of widespread voter fraud.

And yet here you are, making insinuations about voter fraud while criticizing the people who point to the existing evidence we have on the subject.


  • Mr C
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Re: When will Trump be impeached? -2019 Better late than never- Congratulations!
« Reply #3150 on: January 22, 2021, 04:37:41 pm »
Yeah and that interference amounted to the equivalent of a few fans shouting "Brick!!!" while Shaq missed a free throw in a game the Lakers turned the ball over 25 times and shot 35% in.

Only idiots think it had any bearing on the outcome. It was just used as an excuse to go after Trump.

I'll play.  1) Was Shaq actually distracted?  Turns out, even a top-level pro does have an off moment here and there.  2) Did they lose by one point?  3)  Was the FT the front-end of a one-and-one?   If those are all Yes, it could've done.

But with interference, you think that's fine and dandy, do you?

Or only if it reaches the point where it actually alters the outcome of the election?  And isn't it too late to complain by then?  And didn't the strong reaction to Russia's interference in 2016 actually change their level of effectiveness in 2020, or is Trump's own cyberelection guy wrong, like everyone else except Trump?

These are all rhetorical so don't bother answering, and let's return to our regularly-scheduled thread.


Re: When will Trump be impeached? -2019 Better late than never- Congratulations!
« Reply #3151 on: January 22, 2021, 07:00:32 pm »
I'll play.  1) Was Shaq actually distracted?  Turns out, even a top-level pro does have an off moment here and there.  2) Did they lose by one point?  3)  Was the FT the front-end of a one-and-one?   If those are all Yes, it could've done.
1) No. Not to mention Shaq went 9-21 from the FT line and fell on his face at one point during the game and had to come off the court. The Lakers also unexpectedly went to 7 games against the Washington Generals in the previous series and were battered and fatigued. 2) They lost by one. After shooting abysmally from the line, the 3pt line, and the floor. They also turned the ball over a bunch, had a crappy game plan, and lost to a guy who was almost as bad and kept on collecting technical fouls and ejections like his team was nothing but Rasheed Wallace, Dennis Rodman, and just for good measure, we'll stick LaVar Ball, Vontaze Burfict, and Adam "Pacman" Jones on his team. You know, people not even really in the sport but for some reason are playing. 3) No 1 and 1s in the NBA.

So basically if you want to blame the 5 fans in the stands yelling "Brick!!!!!" for the loss, then go ahead. Anyone with a brain would blame about 500 other things before they got to them. Only stupid people would blame those fans. 

Seriously, the people blaming the Russians are like sports fans who bitch and moan that they lost because of some weird thing with the refs or whatever, all the while their team played like shit. No, it's not because of the refs that your Utd. team lost to 10-man Wigan.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2021, 08:47:18 am by Mr.DeMartino »


  • Mr C
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Re: When will Trump be impeached? -2019 Better late than never- Congratulations!
« Reply #3152 on: January 22, 2021, 09:03:21 pm »
1) No. Not to mention Shaq went 9-21 from the FT line and fell on his face at one point during the game and had to come off the court. The Lakers also unexpectedly went to 7 games against the Washington Generals in the previous series and were battered and fatigued. 2) They lost by one. After shooting abysmally from the line, the 3pt line, and the floor. They alsoe turned the ball over a bunch, had a crappy game plan, and lost to a guy who was almost as bad and kept on collecting technical fouls and ejections like his team was nothing but Rasheed Wallace, Dennis Rodman, and just for good measure, we'll stick LaVar Ball, Vontaze Burfict, and Adam "Pacman" Jones on his team. You know, people not even really in the sport but for some reason are playing. 3) No 1 and 1s in the NBA.

So basically if you want to blame the 5 fans in the stands yelling "Brick!!!!!" for the loss, then go ahead. Anyone with a brain would blame about 500 other things before they got to them. Only stupid people would blame those fans. 

Seriously, the people blaming the refs are like sports fans who bitch and moan that they lost because of some weird thing with the refs or whatever, all the while their team played like shit. No, it's not because of the refs that your Utd. team lost to 10-man Wigan.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm just watching to see if your post count turns over to 0001 in a couple of weeks.


Re: When will Trump be impeached? -2019 Better late than never- Congratulations!
« Reply #3153 on: January 23, 2021, 08:48:50 am »
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm just watching to see if your post count turns over to 0001 in a couple of weeks.
Translation: It's pretty obvious the Russians had no effect and the Dems made a mountain out of a molehill, that people fell for, but rather than admit that, I'll just insult you.


  • fka
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Re: When will Trump be impeached? -2019 Better late than never- Congratulations!
« Reply #3154 on: January 23, 2021, 09:04:22 am »
Does anyone remember when investigations into voter fraud showed that they had no effect on the 2020 election, and Republicans made a mountain out of a molehill, and Donald Trump continued lying, denying, and mounting frivolous lawsuits, and hundreds of people invaded the capitol building based on this lie, and five people died? And then Mr. DeMartino came on here to provide some vague cover for those arguments?


Re: When will Trump be impeached? -2019 Better late than never- Congratulations!
« Reply #3155 on: January 23, 2021, 09:39:25 am »
Does anyone remember when investigations into voter fraud showed that they had no effect on the 2020 election, and Republicans made a mountain out of a molehill, and Donald Trump continued lying, denying, and mounting frivolous lawsuits, and hundreds of people invaded the capitol building based on this lie, and five people died? And then Mr. DeMartino came on here to provide some vague cover for those arguments?
Are you acknowledging the Russia stuff was illegitimate?

What vague cover? Notice you can't say I'm covering because nothing I wrote says that.

Once again, you think you have a point but you didn't get the details right.


  • Adel
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Re: When will Trump be impeached? -2019 Better late than never- Congratulations!
« Reply #3156 on: January 23, 2021, 09:45:52 am »
By the Super Bowl, this will all be forgotten. If this happened in France, no one would bat an eye. You had tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands there. Several hundred went stupid, one person was shot. Then everyone went home.

Yawn.



Do you consider Antifa crap an insurrection?

This was Redtifa. They stormed a building, waved some flags, and then the police moved in and dealt with them. Now they'll go home.

Sit down Chicken Little.

Trump's impeachment trial to begin week of February 8, says US senate leader  :laugh:


https://www.dw.com/en/trumps-impeachment-trial-to-begin-week-of-february-8-says-us-senate-leader/a-56321008

I wonder what will become of accomplices like this one.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRbbzpw7CNo

« Last Edit: January 23, 2021, 10:06:31 am by Adel »


  • fka
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Re: When will Trump be impeached? -2019 Better late than never- Congratulations!
« Reply #3157 on: January 23, 2021, 10:30:24 am »
Are you acknowledging the Russia stuff was illegitimate?

What vague cover? Notice you can't say I'm covering because nothing I wrote says that.

Once again, you think you have a point but you didn't get the details right.

This is vague cover for Trump's bullshit about election fraud:

Quote
It doesn't help that you have people claiming Trump is a mortal threat to America. If that's true, then logically you'd have to assume that people would be willing to do extraordinary things to prevent him from gaining a second term, including voter fraud and risking imprisonment.

Furthermore, I have to say, that if I were in a position to potentially engage in voter fraud to prevent Trump from winning, I'd have A LOT of confidence that I would not be prosecuted if I did it under governmental or voter machine corporate auspices (not some rhamshackle operation driving around in a van and snatching ballots or writing in dead people or something like that).


Quote
Are you acknowledging the Russia stuff was illegitimate?

No. Overblown and treated as a foregone conclusion by some sections of the media and Democrats, yes.

The investigation concluded that Russia "interfered in the 2016 presidential election in sweeping and systematic fashion" and "violated U.S. criminal law", then detailed the nature and extent of this interference. These conclusions were supported and expanded upon by a Republican-led Senate committee. About 25 Russians directly involved in this have been indicted. I think that's good, and I would think the same about indictments of Americans involved in election fraud.




« Last Edit: January 23, 2021, 10:32:16 am by fka »


Re: When will Trump be impeached? -2019 Better late than never- Congratulations!
« Reply #3158 on: January 23, 2021, 02:36:22 pm »


Trump's impeachment trial to begin week of February 8, says US senate leader  :laugh:


https://www.dw.com/en/trumps-impeachment-trial-to-begin-week-of-february-8-says-us-senate-leader/a-56321008

I wonder what will become of accomplices like this one.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRbbzpw7CNo


My mistake. I assumed the Dems had political common sense.

If I was the GOP I would encourage them to go whole hog on impeachment while people are waiting for checks and their businesses are failing.


  • Mr C
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Re: When will Trump be impeached? -2019 Better late than never- Congratulations!
« Reply #3159 on: January 23, 2021, 02:46:04 pm »
My mistake. I assumed the Dems had political common sense.

If I was the GOP I would encourage them to go whole hog on impeachment while people are waiting for checks and their businesses are failing.

Meanwhile, the actual GOP has its House leader go on TV and say that we are ALL responsible for the insurrection of January 6th.  Great move, you think?

And the actual Dems have held off on impeachment until Feb 9 so they can get stimulus done, work on Covid and fill the cabinet. 

And the GOP is all butt-hurt that Biden is not going to "unite" the country around the GOP agenda--to the extent one exists.  If you'll remember, the Republicans did not actually announce a national platform for the federal election--it was just, "well, whatever fetid sewage falls out of the Cheeto's gobhole."