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  • Cohort 2019
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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2840 on: October 19, 2019, 03:34:47 am »
Worst still, all of the millions of Turkish expats living in Europe are celebrating driving around waving their red flags , only inciting more future racism towards muslims, no doubt.

The stupendously idiotic Turkish hashtag #ConquestofEurope as reported by the BBC, bodes not well for the upcoming Right-wing vs. Liberal-Democratic election results across Europe...

Is this another Trump legacy we have to solve? :sad:

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Avrupa'nın fethi is used to both describe the wish to conquer European football but also...
« Last Edit: October 19, 2019, 06:40:44 am by Cohort 2019 »
incumbo studiis


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2841 on: October 19, 2019, 03:55:14 am »
Another "great" deal"

A Turkish airstrike has reportedly killed five civilians hours after President Donald Trump hailed a ceasefire agreement negotiated by his vice president, Mike Pence. The deal, which Trump declared would save “millions of lives,” was supposed to help the Kurds, who fought ISIS alongside U.S. forces. Instead, the U.S. appears to have given Turkey an opening to advance on the Kurdish forces, which they appear to have done despite promises to the U.S. and without regard for civilian lives.
Sounds like every other ceasefire that's ever happened in the Middle East for the past 50 years.


  • NorthStar
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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2842 on: October 19, 2019, 08:38:02 am »
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Worst still, all of the millions of Turkish expats living in Europe are celebrating driving around waving their red flags , only inciting more future racism towards muslims, no doubt.

The stupendously idiotic Turkish hashtag #ConquestofEurope as reported by the BBC, bodes not well for the upcoming Right-wing vs. Liberal-Democratic election results across Europe...

Is this another Trump legacy we have to solve?

Nah...Europe did that to itself and continues to do nothing...but, blame "racism" (though Islam does not equate to a specific ethnicity), while the continent goes to shit.

Go ahead an define "Right-wing" for us, rather than skate by using the term simply for affect/effect.

"Liberal-Democratic"....



  • NorthStar
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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2843 on: October 19, 2019, 09:00:49 am »
How things change.  Today it's Trump pulling the troops out and Democrats  (most, but not all) adopting the Bush position, wars without end, keeping the status quo, keeping it all the same, claiming we have allies to defend. 


« Last Edit: October 19, 2019, 09:30:54 am by NorthStar »


  • fka
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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2844 on: October 19, 2019, 10:43:25 am »
Nope, it's specifically about the Kurds, who have been sacrificed several times by the USA. The US has used the condition of Kurdish statelessness to function as a military buffer and gateway for covert operations. On several occasions in the 70s, 80s and 90s, the United States threw them to the wolves.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/markaz/2017/11/02/masoud-barzani-and-the-roots-of-kurdish-distrust-of-the-united-states/

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In 1975, the shah signed a border treaty with Hussein and abandoned the Kurds to disaster. The United States did nothing to help the Kurds except to offer the elder Barzani safe exile. The Kurds paid a horrific price for trusting their allies. Mustafa spent the rest of his days in exile in northern Virginia. Henry Kissinger famously said, “**** the Kurds if they can’t take a joke” and “covert action should not be confused with missionary work.”

In the 1980s, the Kurds joined with the Iranian revolutionary regime in fighting the Iran-Iraq war. When it ended, Hussein was even more ruthless and brutal than in 1974. Again Washington did nothing. Thousands of Kurds were killed and tens of thousands were forced into harsh encampments where they were under Hussein’s cruelty. The Reagan administration had aligned with Hussein against Iran and did nothing to help the Kurds.

In 1991, President Bush had watched Hussein again crush a Kurdish rebellion just as Kuwait was freed. Hundreds of thousands of Kurds were fleeing into Turkey, our NATO ally. Reluctantly, the White House this time intervened with a no-fly zone in northern Iraq. Operation Provide Comfort effectively created a Kurdish enclave along the Turkish border, which the Kurds then expanded it to create a de facto mini-state.

To bring us to the present, Turkey has been trying to quash Kurdish attempts to gain statehood for decades, and Trump's pullout gave Turkey the green light to inflict massive violence on the Kurds once again.

This has nothing to do with loyalty to Democrats or anti-Trump sentiment. If you can't demonstrate empathy for those people, that's a reflection on you, not the people (including a majority of Republican lawmakers) who are simply showing some basic humanity.


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2845 on: October 19, 2019, 10:53:55 am »
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Trump's pullout gave Turkey the green light to inflict massive violence on the Kurds once again.

Why risk a war with Turkey?  Besides, this is Europe's backyard...why not let them handle it?

« Last Edit: October 19, 2019, 10:59:39 am by NorthStar »


  • fka
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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2846 on: October 19, 2019, 11:38:50 am »
Is Saudi Arabia our backyard? Why are we sending thousands of troops there? How does that square with your characterization of Trump as some kind of military isolationist?

Left or right, pacifist or war hawk, most people agree that US troops are more valuable in the Kurdish territory between Syria and Turkey than in Saudi Arabia, for both strategic and humanitarian reasons. The people who disagree with this tend to work for Trump or display an emotional reflex to defend him.


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2847 on: October 19, 2019, 12:11:13 pm »
Is Saudi Arabia our backyard? Why are we sending thousands of troops there? How does that square with your characterization of Trump as some kind of military isolationist?

Left or right, pacifist or war hawk, most people agree that US troops are more valuable in the Kurdish territory between Syria and Turkey than in Saudi Arabia, for both strategic and humanitarian reasons. The people who disagree with this tend to work for Trump or display an emotional reflex to defend him.

Well, if don't want to answer the question, that's cool.  But to answer your deflection question regarding Saudi Arabia, it clear that is for access to oil.  Which, makes me wonder as the U.S. is energy independent...allegedly.  I'd be happy to see our folks out of that crap hole.   

Emotional Reflex to defend him eh?  That could be equal to the emotional toy-throwing reflex to condemn him no matter what he does...simply out of an unidentified urge to throw a temper tantrum, whilst being spoon fed poor media outlets and soundbite journalism. 

But hey...no worries. 

Back to the point...I honestly do not care what the Kurds do.  Granted, should the President should have left a few troops there?  Yes.  But, I do agree that the U.S. does not need to be involved in endless wars...too much money and too many opportunities for things to escalate.  So...as I said, Europe "should" be capable of handling things...along with Russia.  But...that leads to the point of incompetence and apathy on their part (Europe).   So, perhaps it is a no-win situation for them.  But..I'd rather the U.S. not be involved there any further....and should never have gotten entangled to begin with (I can say the same for other foreign wars the U.S. was involved in).
« Last Edit: October 19, 2019, 12:23:18 pm by NorthStar »


  • gogators!
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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2848 on: October 20, 2019, 01:36:00 am »
Another "great" deal"

A Turkish airstrike has reportedly killed five civilians hours after President Donald Trump hailed a ceasefire agreement negotiated by his vice president, Mike Pence. The deal, which Trump declared would save “millions of lives,” was supposed to help the Kurds, who fought ISIS alongside U.S. forces. Instead, the U.S. appears to have given Turkey an opening to advance on the Kurdish forces, which they appear to have done despite promises to the U.S. and without regard for civilian lives.
Sounds like every other ceasefire that's ever happened in the Middle East for the past 50 years.
So dishonest don didn't make a "great deal" and save millions of lives.


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2849 on: October 20, 2019, 01:43:19 am »
Is Saudi Arabia our backyard? Why are we sending thousands of troops there? How does that square with your characterization of Trump as some kind of military isolationist?

Left or right, pacifist or war hawk, most people agree that US troops are more valuable in the Kurdish territory between Syria and Turkey than in Saudi Arabia, for both strategic and humanitarian reasons. The people who disagree with this tend to work for Trump or display an emotional reflex to defend him.

Well, if don't want to answer the question, that's cool.  But to answer your deflection question regarding Saudi Arabia, it clear that is for access to oil.  Which, makes me wonder as the U.S. is energy independent...allegedly.  I'd be happy to see our folks out of that crap hole.   

Emotional Reflex to defend him eh?  That could be equal to the emotional toy-throwing reflex to condemn him no matter what he does...simply out of an unidentified urge to throw a temper tantrum, whilst being spoon fed poor media outlets and soundbite journalism. 

But hey...no worries. 

Back to the point...I honestly do not care what the Kurds do.  Granted, should the President should have left a few troops there?  Yes.  But, I do agree that the U.S. does not need to be involved in endless wars...too much money and too many opportunities for things to escalate.  So...as I said, Europe "should" be capable of handling things...along with Russia.  But...that leads to the point of incompetence and apathy on their part (Europe).   So, perhaps it is a no-win situation for them.  But..I'd rather the U.S. not be involved there any further....and should never have gotten entangled to begin with (I can say the same for other foreign wars the U.S. was involved in).

"France and Germany, together with a number of EU member states, have unilaterally suspended weapon sales to Turkey. France and Germany could lead collective European efforts of a number of ‘willing member states’ to find diplomatic and military options for northern Syria. There is a precedent for this."

Incompetence and apathy are great descriptors of dishonest don and his corrupt cronies. But you seem to be cool with  a weaker US--is that you vlad?


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2850 on: October 20, 2019, 10:02:59 am »
General Mattis mocks Trump. Just wow!

Has any military figure trashed talked a sitting US President before?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT9Pkx49Q90


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2851 on: October 20, 2019, 06:35:27 pm »
Is Saudi Arabia our backyard? Why are we sending thousands of troops there? How does that square with your characterization of Trump as some kind of military isolationist?

Left or right, pacifist or war hawk, most people agree that US troops are more valuable in the Kurdish territory between Syria and Turkey than in Saudi Arabia, for both strategic and humanitarian reasons. The people who disagree with this tend to work for Trump or display an emotional reflex to defend him.
Actually Saudi Arabia, being one of the largest holders of US reserves, a long-time customer, and whose downfall would probably result in a massive disruption of the world economy, is far more valuable than the Kurdish territory.

The Kurds in Syria could be annihilated tomorrow and it wouldn't change anything strategically. Now the Kurds in Iraq Kurdistan on the other hand...

Now as for humanitarian reasons, then I would completely agree. Eff the Saudis. The Kurds have been our friends and I'd rather see us protect them than the Saudis.

But I do agree with the larger point which is Trump is effing up there. I think he should either pull everyone out or be a super-realist and do whatever it takes to bring stability OR pick one faction to back and smash the others into submission. This haphazard nonsense is the same old crap we've always had.


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2852 on: October 20, 2019, 09:08:09 pm »
Quote
Trump's pullout gave Turkey the green light to inflict massive violence on the Kurds once again.

Why risk a war with Turkey?  Besides, this is Europe's backyard...why not let them handle it?


Until this coward of a CIC pulled US troops, there was literally no risk of a war with Turkey, and certainly the Coward-In-Chief would never actually threaten a strongman like Erdogan.  Just days after his blustery "letter" he has backed down on sanctions.  Sanctions!

Your blood is my piss.


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2853 on: October 20, 2019, 09:26:12 pm »
Quote
Trump's pullout gave Turkey the green light to inflict massive violence on the Kurds once again.

Why risk a war with Turkey?  Besides, this is Europe's backyard...why not let them handle it?


Until this coward of a CIC pulled US troops, there was literally no risk of a war with Turkey, and certainly the Coward-In-Chief would never actually threaten a strongman like Erdogan.  Just days after his blustery "letter" he has backed down on sanctions.  Sanctions!

Your blood is my piss.

OK, tough guy. But, if you are pissing blood, you have bigger problems than most.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2019, 09:28:10 pm by NorthStar »


  • Mr C
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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2854 on: October 21, 2019, 05:51:54 am »
Quote
Trump's pullout gave Turkey the green light to inflict massive violence on the Kurds once again.

Why risk a war with Turkey?  Besides, this is Europe's backyard...why not let them handle it?


Until this coward of a CIC pulled US troops, there was literally no risk of a war with Turkey, and certainly the Coward-In-Chief would never actually threaten a strongman like Erdogan.  Just days after his blustery "letter" he has backed down on sanctions.  Sanctions!

Your blood is my piss.

OK, tough guy. But, if you are pissing blood, you have bigger problems than most.
Well, I was mainly referring to Trump, but the metaphor is of cowardice.


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2855 on: October 21, 2019, 07:02:10 am »
Quote
Trump's pullout gave Turkey the green light to inflict massive violence on the Kurds once again.

Why risk a war with Turkey?  Besides, this is Europe's backyard...why not let them handle it?


Until this coward of a CIC pulled US troops, there was literally no risk of a war with Turkey, and certainly the Coward-In-Chief would never actually threaten a strongman like Erdogan.  Just days after his blustery "letter" he has backed down on sanctions.  Sanctions!

Right, before trump did his tantrum there was no risk of war with Turkey.  trump gave them the go-ahead and hours later they started their offensive.  You only need to look at how the military view him now to see that this decision was made purely by himself.  Like has been mentioned before, it could be for a number of reasons:  His family's buildings in Istanbul that he brags about.  The ghost of Khashoggi is still around as leverage because of tapes of the incident.  He's desperately trying to change the media narrative from his impeachment inquiry.  Putin had a word with him. 

The above four reasons are all legitimate reasons to show that trump has a conflict of interest.  The reaction from his military and other politicians would suggest that none of this was done from a reasoned, intelligent position.  It shows someone who does not have the best interests of the US at the centre of his knee-jerk reactions. 


  • Mr C
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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2856 on: October 21, 2019, 09:19:51 pm »
"At the end of the day, he still considers himself to be in the hospitality business."

Totally cool with that.  Just stop being President of the United States, okay?!


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2857 on: October 22, 2019, 02:46:35 am »
"At the end of the day, he still considers himself to be in the hospitality business."

Totally cool with that.  Just stop being President of the United States, okay?!
Hotel? Trivago.


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2858 on: October 22, 2019, 04:17:51 am »
"Even as American forces make a hasty and chaotic withdrawal from northeastern Syria, the U.S. is considering leaving some troops behind to secure oil fields in the region and make sure they don't fall into the hands of a resurgent Islamic State, Defense Secretary Mark Esper said Monday." That's esperanto to you.

And all the others are going to Iraq.

Bring 'em home?!?


  • Mr C
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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2859 on: October 22, 2019, 07:25:17 am »
"Even as American forces make a hasty and chaotic withdrawal from northeastern Syria, the U.S. is considering leaving some troops behind to secure oil fields in the region and make sure they don't fall into the hands of a resurgent Islamic State, Defense Secretary Mark Esper said Monday." That's esperanto to you.

And all the others are going to Iraq.

Bring 'em home?!?

Don't forget we're sending forces to Saudi Arabia, er, "home".