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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2560 on: March 30, 2019, 07:45:12 am »
Given the propensity for Trump cult stooges to swallow complete BS it isn't surprising that they would get a hard on over the Barr summary but for those of us outside the cult, it is abundantly clear that Trump is by no means in the clear.
Next, full Mueller report comes out and when it's a letdown to the left, they'll scream SDNY!!!!

Then when the SDNY slaps Trump's campaign with a $500k fine for Stormy Daniels and busts one low-level peon for 6 months, the left will scream "tax returns!!!!". Then when the IRS says there's nothing there, they'll demand open-ended investigations into money laundering or OSHA violations at Mar-a-Lago or Trump violating customs regulations with some golf club he bought in Japan or demanding his arrest because he violated Savannah, Georgia's 1798 law forbidding the wearing of hats and black jackets on a Sunday, punishable by 2 weeks in the stocks, or who knows what else?

For those of us not in the Trump Derangement Syndrome Cult, we can tell when someone just wants someone thrown in jail because they hate them.


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2561 on: March 30, 2019, 08:54:53 am »
Ah, good old Peggy.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-two-americas-have-grown-much-fiercer-11553816463

Quote
The Two Americas Have Grown Much Fiercer
The U.S. was divided 46 years ago. But no one saw it as a fight to the death.

Sometimes you write about the most obvious thing in the world because it is the most important thing. Reaction to the outcome of Robert Mueller’s investigation shows Americans again how divided we are. If you are more or less of the left, you experienced the probe as a search for truth that would restore the previous world of politics. Instead the traitor got away with it and you feel destabilized, deflated. If you are of the Trumpian right, it was from the beginning an attempted coup, the establishment using everything it had to remove a force it could not defeat at the polls. You are energized, elated.

Now both sides will settle down, with the left as forthcoming in its defeat as the right is forbearing in its victory. I just wanted to show you my fantasy life. The Trump forces will strike with a great pent-up anger, and the left will never let go.

Both sides will be intensely human. And inhuman. Because the past few years the character of our political divisions has changed, and this must be noted again. People are proud of their bitterness now. Old America used to accept our splits as part of the price of being us—numerous, varied, ornery. Current America, with its moderating institutions (churches) going down and its dividing institutions (the internet) rising, sees our polarization not as something to be healed but a reason for being, something to get up for. There’s a finality to it, a war-to-the-death quality.

It is, actually, shocking, and I say this as a person always generally unshocked by American political division, because I came of age in it. When I was a kid we came together as a nation when John F. Kennedy died and manned rockets went up, but after that it was pretty much turmoil—Vietnam, demonstrations, Watergate. You were on one side or the other. The terms left and right started replacing the boring old Democratic and Republican.

I will never forget seeing, on the cover of Time magazine, in October 1972, an essay by Lance Morrow that was ostensibly about the last days of the race between Richard Nixon and George McGovern but really about something bigger. I was in college, and it struck me hard. It was called “The Two Americas,” and was elegantly written and prescient. The candidates were so unlike each other that they seemed to represent different “instincts” about America. “They suggested almost two different countries, two different cultures, two different Americas,” Mr. Morrow wrote. “The McGovern campaign marches to the rhythms of the long, Wagnerian ’60s”—racial upheaval, the war, feminism, the sexual revolution. McGovernites had a more romantic conception of what leadership could be, should be.

In Nixon’s America, on the other hand, there was “the sense of ‘system.’ The free enterprise system, the law and order system, even the ‘family unit’ system.” They were protective of it, grateful to it. And the antonym to their idea of system wasn’t utopia, it was chaos. “They are apprehensive of the disorders that the late ’60s adumbrated to them, the turmoils that they suspect a McGovern accession might bring.” They wanted evolution, not revolution.

While Nixon supporters tended to be more “comfortable,” McGovern backers had their own kind of detachment. Harvard sociologist David Riesman was quoted on part of McGovern’s constituency, professional elites: “They have very little sense of that other day-by-day America.”

Mr. Morrow noted a dynamic still with us, only more so. On both sides, “voters repeat their candidate’s themes and even rhetoric with a precision that is sometimes eerie.” He concluded with the observation that within the two Americas he saw “one common denominator,” the sophistication of the people, their earnest desire, left, right and center, to find and support the best thing for America.

It was written with a respect and warmth toward the American people that is not so common now.

The notion of a country divided reinforced what I thought at the time I’d been seeing. The facts and feel of the divisions change, but division isn’t bad, it’s inevitable and human.

In my lifetime I have seen two things that have helped us reorder ourselves as a nation into some rough if temporary unity. Tragedy, such as 9/11, is one. Sheer political popularity is another. Ronald Reagan had two authentic landslides, the second time, in 1984, winning 49 states. Today’s America doesn’t yield outcomes like that. But there was something we did then that could never happen now.

Writing is never pleasurable, at least for anyone sane, but the most pleasurable and satisfying speeches I worked on with Reagan were those in which you get to bring your love for the other side. A Rose Garden speech praising the excellence of Scoop Jackson or JFK, a speech never given on the excellence of Eleanor Roosevelt. We quoted Franklin D. Roosevelt and Harry S. Truman more than Dwight Eisenhower. The boss had been a Democrat. He’d stumped for Truman in ’48 with Truman. Reagan was not sentimental about our divisions—he knew exactly why he was not a Democrat anymore—but he took every chance he could to reach across the lines and hold on.

But that kind of popularity is probably not possible in this environment. That’s for many reasons, and one is that policy demands have become maximalist. It’s not enough that contraceptives be covered in the government-mandated plan; the nuns must conform. It’s not enough you be sensitive to the effect of your words and language; you must be punished for saying or thinking the wrong thing. It’s not enough that gay marriage is legal; you must be forced to bake the cake. It won’t do that attention be paid to scientific arguments on the environment; America must upend itself with green new deals or be judged not to care about children.

Nothing can be moderate or incremental, everything must be sweeping and definitive. It is all so maximalist, and bullying.

In that environment people start to think that giving an inch is giving a yard. And so they won’t budge.

You don’t even get credit for being extreme in your views but mild in your manner, in the way that people called Barry Goldwater both extreme and mild. Now you must be extreme in your manner or it doesn’t count, you’re not one of us.

It is just such an air of extremeness on the field now, and it reflects a larger sense of societal alienation. We have the fierce teamism of the lonely, who find fellowship in their online fighting group and will say anything for its approval. There are the angry who find relief in politics because they can funnel their rage there, into that external thing, instead of examining closer and more uncomfortable causes. There are the people who cannot consider God and religion and have to put that energy somewhere.

America isn’t making fewer of the lonely, angry and unaffiliated, it’s making more every day.

So I am worried, which is the point of this piece. The war between Trump and not-Trump will continue, will not be resolved, will get meaner. One side will win and one side will lose and the nation will go on, changed.

Is it self-indulgent to note that this grieves me? I suppose it is. But it grieves me.


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2562 on: March 30, 2019, 09:29:41 am »


Those of us in the Trump Derangement Cult just want to close our eyes and ignore his crimes and corruption because he provides us with validation for our underlying bigotry

Fixed


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2563 on: March 30, 2019, 10:15:42 am »
Given the propensity for Trump cult stooges to swallow complete BS it isn't surprising that they would get a hard on over the Barr summary but for those of us outside the cult, it is abundantly clear that Trump is by no means in the clear.
Next, full Mueller report comes out and when it's a letdown to the left, they'll scream SDNY!!!!

Then when the SDNY slaps Trump's campaign with a $500k fine for Stormy Daniels and busts one low-level peon for 6 months, the left will scream "tax returns!!!!". Then when the IRS says there's nothing there, they'll demand open-ended investigations into money laundering or OSHA violations at Mar-a-Lago or Trump violating customs regulations with some golf club he bought in Japan or demanding his arrest because he violated Savannah, Georgia's 1798 law forbidding the wearing of hats and black jackets on a Sunday, punishable by 2 weeks in the stocks, or who knows what else?

For those of us not in the Trump Derangement Syndrome Cult, we can tell when someone just wants someone thrown in jail because they hate them.
"Nothing there." LOL

Trump university, Trump foundation, tax scams, insurance scams, lying to get bank loans, obstruction of justice, lying, lying and more lying. 
« Last Edit: March 30, 2019, 07:38:08 pm by kyndo »


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2564 on: May 07, 2019, 04:25:02 am »
Quote
Hundreds of former prosecutors say evidence against Trump supports charges
 
If Donald Trump weren’t president of the United States, he would have been charged with obstruction of justice, over 400 former federal prosecutors and Justice Department officials said Monday in an extraordinary public letter.
The joint statement, which had 417 signers by early afternoon, rebuts Attorney General William Barr’s assertion that the evidence of potential obstruction uncovered by special counsel Robert Mueller was “not sufficient” to establish that Trump committed a crime.
“Each of us believes that the conduct of President Trump described in Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report would, in the case of any other person not covered by the Office of Legal Counsel policy against indicting a sitting President, result in multiple felony charges for obstruction of justice,” the statement reads.

Drain the swamp and put  trump where he belongs.


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2565 on: May 07, 2019, 07:13:31 am »
Quote
Hundreds of former prosecutors say evidence against Trump supports charges
 
If Donald Trump weren’t president of the United States, he would have been charged with obstruction of justice, over 400 former federal prosecutors and Justice Department officials said Monday in an extraordinary public letter.
The joint statement, which had 417 signers by early afternoon, rebuts Attorney General William Barr’s assertion that the evidence of potential obstruction uncovered by special counsel Robert Mueller was “not sufficient” to establish that Trump committed a crime.
“Each of us believes that the conduct of President Trump described in Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report would, in the case of any other person not covered by the Office of Legal Counsel policy against indicting a sitting President, result in multiple felony charges for obstruction of justice,” the statement reads.

Drain the swamp and put  trump where he belongs.

you can usually tell how trump is doing by his actions.  restarting his trade fight with China, twaating about the unfairness that  right wing racists have been banned from twatter, his continued stonewalling of the release of his tax returns, his continued stonewalling of subpoenas for staff to speak to some committees, threatening Iran again etc etc etc.  There is nothing normal about this.  people say he thrives on chaos.  one thing you don't need as one of the most powerful nations on earth is chaos in your policies and running of the country.  cohen was right, there is not going to be any calm transfer of power away from trump.  it is going to get much much worse.  looking forward to seeing Mueller on the 15th or 17th....


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2566 on: May 08, 2019, 04:34:03 am »
Quote
Hundreds of former prosecutors say evidence against Trump supports charges
 
If Donald Trump weren’t president of the United States, he would have been charged with obstruction of justice, over 400 former federal prosecutors and Justice Department officials said Monday in an extraordinary public letter.
The joint statement, which had 417 signers by early afternoon, rebuts Attorney General William Barr’s assertion that the evidence of potential obstruction uncovered by special counsel Robert Mueller was “not sufficient” to establish that Trump committed a crime.
“Each of us believes that the conduct of President Trump described in Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report would, in the case of any other person not covered by the Office of Legal Counsel policy against indicting a sitting President, result in multiple felony charges for obstruction of justice,” the statement reads.

Drain the swamp and put  trump where he belongs.

you can usually tell how trump is doing by his actions.  restarting his trade fight with China, twaating about the unfairness that  right wing racists have been banned from twatter, his continued stonewalling of the release of his tax returns, his continued stonewalling of subpoenas for staff to speak to some committees, threatening Iran again etc etc etc.  There is nothing normal about this.  people say he thrives on chaos.  one thing you don't need as one of the most powerful nations on earth is chaos in your policies and running of the country.  cohen was right, there is not going to be any calm transfer of power away from trump.  it is going to get much much worse.  looking forward to seeing Mueller on the 15th or 17th....
I'd love to see Cohen get out early so the book he will surely write can be published. He says he's got a lot more to say about trump. I'd say you can bank on it.


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2567 on: May 08, 2019, 09:58:19 am »
This would be the same Michael Cohen who had zero evidence of criminal activity outside of possibly a fineable campaign finance violation?


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2568 on: May 09, 2019, 07:21:02 am »
wow!  i get a post deleted for pointing out that demartian's flipflopping goes from there is no corruption to, 'you know, yeh, a little bit of corruption is okay'.  now, trump is only guilty of a 'bit of federal campaign finance violation', that's it.  the violation is a felony when it is coordinated by someone on the campaign and that they were related to the campaign, which they both were.  the fact he is president is why he can get away with it now. also the fact that people just seem to shrug and let it continue is the most baffling thing.  the lasting damage that trump is doing/has done to america is amazing.  to change the media narrative now, he's poking Iran and causing trouble there for a nuclear treaty that he pulled america out of.  you can't make this stuff up. 


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2569 on: May 09, 2019, 10:51:30 am »
Most campaign finance violations of the sort Trump may have engaged in (and it remains a question as to whether his act WAS a campaign finance violation- I'll just say it was for the sake of argument) are usually punished with a fine.

For example, Obama's 2012 campaign was fined over $500k in campaign finance violations, but Obama wasn't impeached. Nor should he have been.

Do you really think that Donald Trump paying a porn star money for an NDA in which they engaged in a consensual relationship warrants removal from office? I don't. Even people like Ceny Uyghur of the Young Turks agree that removing Trump over Stormy Daniels is a non-starter.


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2570 on: May 09, 2019, 12:08:40 pm »
Lol. As if that is the only felony that Trump has committed.  The only thing keeping Trump out of the clink at the moment is his presidency.  But of course the official legal position of his cult at present, is that their leader is above the law.


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2571 on: May 10, 2019, 07:48:38 am »
Most campaign finance violations of the sort Trump may have engaged in (and it remains a question as to whether his act WAS a campaign finance violation- I'll just say it was for the sake of argument) are usually punished with a fine.

For example, Obama's 2012 campaign was fined over $500k in campaign finance violations, but Obama wasn't impeached. Nor should he have been.

Do you really think that Donald Trump paying a porn star money for an NDA in which they engaged in a consensual relationship warrants removal from office? I don't. Even people like Ceny Uyghur of the Young Turks agree that removing Trump over Stormy Daniels is a non-starter.
Obstruction of justice is what he would be charged with if he were not president. Try and keep up, dude.


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2572 on: May 10, 2019, 11:50:25 am »
Decision to subpoena Donald Trump Jr. sets off a Republican firefight

“Mueller is a criminal justice investigation,” Rubio said. “Ours is an intelligence investigation about the Russia threat...."

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

intelligence?  trump jr? 


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2573 on: May 10, 2019, 04:23:17 pm »
Decision to subpoena Donald Trump Jr. sets off a Republican firefight

“Mueller is a criminal justice investigation,” Rubio said. “Ours is an intelligence investigation about the Russia threat...."

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

intelligence?  trump jr? 
:shocked:
He'll definitely have to take the  5th on that one!


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2574 on: May 13, 2019, 07:24:55 am »
Decision to subpoena Donald Trump Jr. sets off a Republican firefight

“Mueller is a criminal justice investigation,” Rubio said. “Ours is an intelligence investigation about the Russia threat...."

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

intelligence?  trump jr? 
:shocked:
He'll definitely have to take the  5th on that one!

i think anything over two, is considered 'many' in trump jr's 'brain'


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2575 on: May 22, 2019, 12:05:27 am »
Are MAGA  hats the new brown shirt?
Quote
One of the hallmarks of authoritarianism is jailing one’s political enemies, an idea to which Trump is no stranger. He’s called for an investigation into Hillary Clinton for years now — especially at rallies, where he knows he can get the crowd lathered into a “Lock Her Up!” frenzy — but actually doing so seemed implausible, like something that couldn’t actually happen in America. This is no longer the case.

After Trump accused Democrats and the FBI of treason Monday night, he stepped away from the podium to bask in a “Lock Them Up!” chant. When he returned to the microphone, he reminded his supporters that Attorney General William Barr is in his pocket, and that the new, compliant head of the Justice Department is going to “give it a very fair look” to jailing of those involved in the Russia investigation for treason.


Matthew Miller
@matthewamiller
 "Over the past couple years there were times it felt like everyone thought people like me were crying wolf over Trump’s encroachment on DOJ. Now the wolf is at the door."


Trump accuses the FBI and Democrats of treason. He then has to pause as his fans chant, "lock them  up!"

"We have a great new attorney general who will give it a very fair look," Trump says. 👀

 
“@SpeakerPelosi @TeamPelosi I would be pleased to speak to you as an expert on how authoritarian regimes take hold, with this as a warning sign,” tweeted Ruth Ben-Ghiat, an authoritarianism historian at New York University. “This is scary to watch,” added Sen. Chris Murphy (D-CT). Others, like former Office of Government Ethics Director Walter Shaub, likened the comments to something out of Nazi Germany. “Shades of 1937,” he wrote.


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2576 on: May 22, 2019, 06:54:50 am »
"We have a great new attorney general who will give it a very fair look," Trump says.

Yep, sure he'll give it a fair look...

Quote
“I felt the rules were being changed to hurt Trump, and I thought it was damaging for the presidency over the long haul,”

“At every grace juncture the presidency has done what it is supposed to do, which is to provide leadership and direction,” Barr said. “If you destroy the presidency and make it an errand boy for Congress, we’re going to be a much weaker and more divided nation.”

more divided?   :laugh:


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2577 on: May 22, 2019, 09:31:04 am »
Are MAGA  hats the new brown shirt?
Quote
One of the hallmarks of authoritarianism is jailing one’s political enemies, an idea to which Trump is no stranger. He’s called for an investigation into Hillary Clinton for years now — especially at rallies, where he knows he can get the crowd lathered into a “Lock Her Up!” frenzy — but actually doing so seemed implausible, like something that couldn’t actually happen in America. This is no longer the case.

After Trump accused Democrats and the FBI of treason Monday night, he stepped away from the podium to bask in a “Lock Them Up!” chant. When he returned to the microphone, he reminded his supporters that Attorney General William Barr is in his pocket, and that the new, compliant head of the Justice Department is going to “give it a very fair look” to jailing of those involved in the Russia investigation for treason.


Matthew Miller
@matthewamiller
 "Over the past couple years there were times it felt like everyone thought people like me were crying wolf over Trump’s encroachment on DOJ. Now the wolf is at the door."


Trump accuses the FBI and Democrats of treason. He then has to pause as his fans chant, "lock them  up!"

"We have a great new attorney general who will give it a very fair look," Trump says. 👀

 
“@SpeakerPelosi @TeamPelosi I would be pleased to speak to you as an expert on how authoritarian regimes take hold, with this as a warning sign,” tweeted Ruth Ben-Ghiat, an authoritarianism historian at New York University. “This is scary to watch,” added Sen. Chris Murphy (D-CT). Others, like former Office of Government Ethics Director Walter Shaub, likened the comments to something out of Nazi Germany. “Shades of 1937,” he wrote.

Has it ever occurred to you that it is the FBI and the intel community that might have been engaged in authoritarianism and attempting to imprison a political opponent? Let's not to forget that two central figures, Clapper and Brennan, lied to the American people under oath about domestic spying. Brennan had Congressional staffs spied on.

Maybe the investigation was undertaken entirely in good faith. If that's the case, fine. But there are some serious questions regarding source material, how the investigation was authorized, how information was presented to judges in order to obtain warrants, and the problems with testimony offered by the various parties.

Keep in mind Comey and Brennan are now pointing fingers at each other.

Sorry, I don't have 100% faith that the head of an agency whose job it is, is to engage in propaganda and meddle in another country's politics, and has lied under oath about domestic spying, is completely on the up-and-up.


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2578 on: May 22, 2019, 09:55:45 am »
Are MAGA  hats the new brown shirt?
Quote
One of the hallmarks of authoritarianism is jailing one’s political enemies, an idea to which Trump is no stranger. He’s called for an investigation into Hillary Clinton for years now — especially at rallies, where he knows he can get the crowd lathered into a “Lock Her Up!” frenzy — but actually doing so seemed implausible, like something that couldn’t actually happen in America. This is no longer the case.

After Trump accused Democrats and the FBI of treason Monday night, he stepped away from the podium to bask in a “Lock Them Up!” chant. When he returned to the microphone, he reminded his supporters that Attorney General William Barr is in his pocket, and that the new, compliant head of the Justice Department is going to “give it a very fair look” to jailing of those involved in the Russia investigation for treason.


Matthew Miller
@matthewamiller
 "Over the past couple years there were times it felt like everyone thought people like me were crying wolf over Trump’s encroachment on DOJ. Now the wolf is at the door."


Trump accuses the FBI and Democrats of treason. He then has to pause as his fans chant, "lock them  up!"

"We have a great new attorney general who will give it a very fair look," Trump says. 👀

 
“@SpeakerPelosi @TeamPelosi I would be pleased to speak to you as an expert on how authoritarian regimes take hold, with this as a warning sign,” tweeted Ruth Ben-Ghiat, an authoritarianism historian at New York University. “This is scary to watch,” added Sen. Chris Murphy (D-CT). Others, like former Office of Government Ethics Director Walter Shaub, likened the comments to something out of Nazi Germany. “Shades of 1937,” he wrote.

Has it ever occurred to you that it is the FBI and the intel community that might have been engaged in authoritarianism and attempting to imprison a political opponent? Let's not to forget that two central figures, Clapper and Brennan, lied to the American people under oath about domestic spying. Brennan had Congressional staffs spied on.

Maybe the investigation was undertaken entirely in good faith. If that's the case, fine. But there are some serious questions regarding source material, how the investigation was authorized, how information was presented to judges in order to obtain warrants, and the problems with testimony offered by the various parties.

Keep in mind Comey and Brennan are now pointing fingers at each other.

Sorry, I don't have 100% faith that the head of an agency whose job it is, is to engage in propaganda and meddle in another country's politics, and has lied under oath about domestic spying, is completely on the up-and-up.
There are no serious questions. The only ones involved in anything treasonous were trump and his campaign staff.  They were the ones involved with a foreign country  to acquire intel on a political opponent.

As for Brennan, isn't that the type of realpolitik you normally espouse?  Your man trump is all for torture and would not doubt lie about it.

Sorry, your posts are far from on the up and up.


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2579 on: May 22, 2019, 10:37:54 am »
There are no serious questions. The only ones involved in anything treasonous were trump and his campaign staff.  They were the ones involved with a foreign country  to acquire intel on a political opponent.
No, they weren't. The Steele dossier relied on sources from within Russia. This dossier was fed to Fusion GPS and Perkins-Cole, which fed it to the Clinton campaign and the FBI. Remember the Trump Tower meeting and the Russian lawyer? Immediately prior and after the meeting, she met with, wait for it...Glenn Simpson. This lawyer, who had previously been barred from entry into the U.S., was granted special dispensation to enter at the time of the meeting.

By your own standard, The Clinton campaign was involved with a foreign country to acquire intel on a political opponent.

Quote
As for Brennan, isn't that the type of realpolitik you normally espouse?  Your man trump is all for torture and would not doubt lie about it.
Thank you for admitting Brennan is a scumbag and should not be trusted.

Now, being a scumbag who should not be trusted is probably a requirement for being the head of the CIA, but it does not help his credibility.