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  • kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 5138

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2440 on: December 18, 2018, 07:53:57 am »
Well, there are a few different things.  First, my post was removed, and I wasn't even told it was happening.  It's true that I have no "rights" here other than what's in the TOS, but a head's up or something, public or private, would be good.
Sounds like a good idea. In the future, if I delete something, I'll let that poster know.

Secondly, if you're going to retroactively correct DeMartino's posts for his violations of posting etiquette and argumentum errors, you're about, let's see, 5,809 posts behind.  Okay, not really, but he is pretty egregious--and I'm not saying he's alone.  Whacking my post makes it seem like I'm in the same category, and I don't feel that's true.
I just started. Give me a time machine, a 40 hour day, and some adderall, and I'll get to work!
I apologize if you felt lumped in with the ne'erdowells: like I said, I just assumed that if the problem was addressed comments pointing it out could be removed without issue.

Thirdly, I'm a big boy and I can fend for myself--I feel that my response was adequate, and let his words show him for what he is.  But I am of the camp that we don't really moderation in the social area, unless it comes to behavior like doxxing or physical threats, serious stuff.
You mentioned in our PM exchange that you warned Martino, but there's nothing in his profile box to indicate that. I would have thought such warnings were public, because that's a fair part of their value.
I'm new. Maybe I'm a bit overzealous. I'll dial it back a bit. Also, I'm not exactly sure how the system works, but I believe you only get that little "watched" icon if your warning level passes a certain threshold (50% maybe?). Usually that takes 2 or three warnings in a row, or something more serious. I agree that a more sensitive tier would be nice.

Kyndo, I've always thought you to be a good guy, and frankly I can't imagine why you would become a moderator here at this stage.  But if you're going to moderate at this kind of granularity, you have some long, long days ahead of you.  Oh well, that's your business, not mine.  Good luck!
Thanks!
   Somebody asked me if I wanted to, and I figured I visit the site more or less everyday anyway, so I figured 'why not?' Although, I was thinking more about organizing messy lesson plan threads than playing censor. Maybe I should focus more on that.


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2441 on: December 18, 2018, 08:14:04 am »
I wonder when Martin:s boss will realize he/she is paying him to sit around shitposting on Waygook all day. He clearly doesn't do any work.
Some of us can type out a page in like 5 minutes. Maybe it takes you a lot longer to think and write that much, but for some of us, it doesn't take that much time at all. Perhaps that would explain the terseness of your posts and the lack of material that comprises them.


  • Savant
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1945

    • April 07, 2012, 11:35:31 pm
Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2442 on: December 18, 2018, 08:27:14 am »
I wonder when Martin:s boss will realize he/she is paying him to sit around shitposting on Waygook all day. He clearly doesn't do any work.

I thought this.


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2443 on: December 18, 2018, 08:31:51 am »
2) You went on a one hundred word screed about how much you lie.  It can't be an ad hominem if you proudly admit to it, can it?
Dude, your reading comprehension SUCKS.

Quote
It is a God-given truth. Everyone lies.
A. Murderers (criminals) lie because they have to.
B. Witnesses and other participants lie because they think they have to.
C. Everyone else lies for the sheer joy of it, and to uphold a general principle that under no circumstances do you provide accurate information to a cop.

People lie about EVERYTHING. Makeup is a lie. Fingernails are a lie. The clothes people wear are a lie. That watch or car or TV is a lie- you aren't that rich. Everyone lies constantly about how much sex they're getting. They lie about whether they want to bang someone. They lie about their kinks and fetishes. They lie about whether they like people. They lie about their views and feelings on race. They lie about liking their boss, their coworkers, their family, their spouse, their kids. They lie on their taxes. They lie about what they had for breakfast. They lie about how often they brush their teeth, how often they shower, whether they jacked off that morning, whether they picked their nose in the car.

It's human nature.

And you know what the biggest lie people tell? That they aren't in some way full of shit themselves. That's YOUR lie. There is some lie you're living right now. Maybe it's a relationship with a coworker. Maybe it's feelings about an SO or someone in your family. Maybe it's your neighbor. Maybe it's some overpriced watch you're wearing that puffs you up a bit. I brought up this whole thing about lies to show how just because someone is lying, you can't infer that they are guilty, and how this related to the Trump investigation. That is bad reasoning and anyone with an ounce of insight into human nature and crime in particular would be able to tell you that.

Your response to this, rather than to debate the issue, is to call me a liar and then ethically compromised. You made it a personal attack, rather than an issue.

Quote
3) I did point out you're really bad at analogies, but's not attacking you so much as the analogies.
I think you misinterpret the purpose of an analogy. It is not used to say the situation is the same. It's (usually) to illustrate an idea I'm trying to convey so you can understand it.

Case in point my analogy about lies with Russia and lies with Prostitution. The purpose of the analogy was NOT to say that it's the same as a prostitution ring. It was to illustrate the logical flaw you were making. You inferred that because people lied about talking to Russians, that therefore it is highly probable they were colluding or part of some other illegal operation involving the Trump campaign and Russia- what amounts to a criminal syndicate. However, that is making the same logical flaw as concluding that because someone lied about having sex with a prostitute, that therefore it is highly probable they are involved in a prostitution ring. So when you say "Why all the lies? Why all the guilty pleas?", that's why I say it doesn't mean shit.

Or to put it another way, when someone bangs on your door demanding to know if you've ever spoken to any Russians, is it a surprise someone might lie about speaking to a Russian, especially when you might be thinking the investigation is politically motivated? I mean, haven't learned that lesson from the 1920s and the 1950s?


  • gogators!
  • The Legend

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    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2444 on: December 18, 2018, 09:33:43 am »
2) You went on a one hundred word screed about how much you lie.  It can't be an ad hominem if you proudly admit to it, can it?
Dude, your reading comprehension SUCKS.

Quote
It is a God-given truth. Everyone lies.
A. Murderers (criminals) lie because they have to.
B. Witnesses and other participants lie because they think they have to.
C. Everyone else lies for the sheer joy of it, and to uphold a general principle that under no circumstances do you provide accurate information to a cop.

People lie about EVERYTHING. Makeup is a lie. Fingernails are a lie. The clothes people wear are a lie. That watch or car or TV is a lie- you aren't that rich. Everyone lies constantly about how much sex they're getting. They lie about whether they want to bang someone. They lie about their kinks and fetishes. They lie about whether they like people. They lie about their views and feelings on race. They lie about liking their boss, their coworkers, their family, their spouse, their kids. They lie on their taxes. They lie about what they had for breakfast. They lie about how often they brush their teeth, how often they shower, whether they jacked off that morning, whether they picked their nose in the car.

It's human nature.

And you know what the biggest lie people tell? That they aren't in some way full of shit themselves. That's YOUR lie. There is some lie you're living right now. Maybe it's a relationship with a coworker. Maybe it's feelings about an SO or someone in your family. Maybe it's your neighbor. Maybe it's some overpriced watch you're wearing that puffs you up a bit. I brought up this whole thing about lies to show how just because someone is lying, you can't infer that they are guilty, and how this related to the Trump investigation. That is bad reasoning and anyone with an ounce of insight into human nature and crime in particular would be able to tell you that.

Your response to this, rather than to debate the issue, is to call me a liar and then ethically compromised. You made it a personal attack, rather than an issue.


You're the one who's full of it. Your only defense is to say everyone is. That is just one sad pathetic rationalization from a sad pathetic excuse for a human being.

Lying is not human nature; it's animal cunning. There's a big difference.

trump is guilty, and he lies to cover it up. trump is incompetent, and he lies to covert that up. trump is failing, and he lies to cover that up.

As for you, why you feel the need to lie to complete strangers on the internet is a mystery. Maybe you're just some crazy blowhard, maybe you have deeper issues.

Either way, no one cares. They just wish you'd go away.



  • Mr C
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1682

    • October 17, 2012, 03:00:40 pm
    • Seoul
Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2445 on: December 18, 2018, 11:58:53 am »
2) You went on a one hundred word screed about how much you lie.  It can't be an ad hominem if you proudly admit to it, can it?
Dude, your reading comprehension SUCKS.

Quote
It is a God-given truth. Everyone lies.
A. Murderers (criminals) lie because they have to.
B. Witnesses and other participants lie because they think they have to.
C. Everyone else lies for the sheer joy of it, and to uphold a general principle that under no circumstances do you provide accurate information to a cop.

People lie about EVERYTHING. Makeup is a lie. Fingernails are a lie. The clothes people wear are a lie. That watch or car or TV is a lie- you aren't that rich. Everyone lies constantly about how much sex they're getting. They lie about whether they want to bang someone. They lie about their kinks and fetishes. They lie about whether they like people. They lie about their views and feelings on race. They lie about liking their boss, their coworkers, their family, their spouse, their kids. They lie on their taxes. They lie about what they had for breakfast. They lie about how often they brush their teeth, how often they shower, whether they jacked off that morning, whether they picked their nose in the car.
In other words, DeMartino is a liar. Yeah, I got it.
Quote
It's human nature.


And you know what the biggest lie people tell? That they aren't in some way full of shit themselves. That's YOUR lie. There is some lie you're living right now. Maybe it's a relationship with a coworker. Maybe it's feelings about an SO or someone in your family. Maybe it's your neighbor. Maybe it's some overpriced watch you're wearing that puffs you up a bit. I brought up this whole thing about lies to show how just because someone is lying, you can't infer that they are guilty, and how this related to the Trump investigation. That is bad reasoning and anyone with an ounce of insight into human nature and crime in particular would be able to tell you that.

Your response to this, rather than to debate the issue, is to call me a liar and then ethically compromised. You made it a personal attack, rather than an issue.
You have wholeheartedly said, and repeated, yet again, in this post, that you lie like a Persian rug.  How can it possibly be a personal attack if it's something you keep on insisting?!?
Quote
Quote
3) I did point out you're really bad at analogies, but's not attacking you so much as the analogies.
I think you misinterpret the purpose of an analogy. It is not used to say the situation is the same. It's (usually) to illustrate an idea I'm trying to convey so you can understand it.

Case in point my analogy about lies with Russia and lies with Prostitution. The purpose of the analogy was NOT to say that it's the same as a prostitution ring. It was to illustrate the logical flaw you were making. You inferred that because people lied about talking to Russians, that therefore it is highly probable they were colluding or part of some other illegal operation involving the Trump campaign and Russia- what amounts to a criminal syndicate. However, that is making the same logical flaw as concluding that because someone lied about having sex with a prostitute, that therefore it is highly probable they are involved in a prostitution ring. So when you say "Why all the lies? Why all the guilty pleas?", that's why I say it doesn't mean shit.

Or to put it another way, when someone bangs on your door demanding to know if you've ever spoken to any Russians, is it a surprise someone might lie about speaking to a Russian, especially when you might be thinking the investigation is politically motivated? I mean, haven't learned that lesson from the 1920s and the 1950s?

You are getting close to explaining yourself why it's a terrible analogy.  Visiting a prostitute in most places in the US is ILLEGAL.  People would mostly lie about that BECAUSE it is illegal.

In MOST cases, talking to Russians per se is NOT illegal, so lying about it couldn't possibly be for the same reason as lying about visiting a prostitute. Unless of course there was some illegal purpose underlying the contacts.  Do you see now why it's such a terrible analogy?

And I won't let yet another lie slip by: Trump and associates were lying about contacts with Russians before there was an investigation, so it isn't possible that that non-existent investigation being politically motivated is a reason for lying.


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2446 on: December 18, 2018, 12:38:42 pm »
You have wholeheartedly said, and repeated, yet again, in this post, that you lie like a Persian rug.  How can it possibly be a personal attack if it's something you keep on insisting?!?
I'm saying that's human nature. That we all have some sort of lie and to suggest that someone is a liar while someone else isn't and that it's not the norm for people to lie does not match what we know about human nature. YOU do the same thing, so why are using it as a point of attack?

We're trying to understand lying in the context of an investigation and human behavior. You suggested that lying was not standard behavior and that strongly suggests guilt. I disagreed and said that lying is the norm and that you cannot infer anything simply from a lie.

Quote
You are getting close to explaining yourself why it's a terrible analogy.  Visiting a prostitute in most places in the US is ILLEGAL.  People would mostly lie about that BECAUSE it is illegal.

You're kidding, right? You do realize that in most cases, solicitation is a misdemeanor and basically, you can't get arrested unless you're caught in the act of engaging or soliciting. The reason people would lie is NOT because its illegal, its a host of other reasons. You can't get arrested for responding to "Have you ever used a prostitute?" with a "yes." In order for there to be a criminal complaint they would have to be able to name a date and place.

Anyways, people would lie about visiting a hooker for dozens of reasons. Maybe they don't want to get a divorce. Maybe they're embarrassed. Maybe they did something really kinky. Maybe the prostitute was a tranny or a dude. Maybe they caught an STD. There's dozens of reasons someone might lie.

Quote
In MOST cases, talking to Russians per se is NOT illegal, so lying about it couldn't possibly be for the same reason as lying about visiting a prostitute.
Because the only reason people would lie is illegality? What about their reputation? Or maybe they were visiting a Russian hooker? Or maybe they accepted gifts not related to collusion? Or maybe they were looking into Russian arms sales for a 3rd party? Maybe they were working for a covert operation? Maybe they didn't think it was materially substantive (Well I DID meet the Russian but all we did was BS about basketball for 5 minutes)? You do realize that when people are grilled, they can lie inadvertently because they're so nervous, right?

Quote
Do you see now why it's such a terrible analogy?
Do you see now why you're understanding of human behavior and potential criminal activity is crap?

The crux of my argument is that you CANNOT infer that someone is part of a broader criminal conspiracy because they lied about engaging in an act either involving services that syndicate provides or meeting with people from that syndicate. Is it a place to start looking? Sure. But it does not follow that someone who lied about meeting with or using the services of a criminal syndicate is therefore an active co-conspirator.

Quote
And I won't let yet another lie slip by
I don't think you really understand what a lie is. You call things I right "lies", but what you cite as a lie, isn't a lie.

Quote
Trump and associates were lying about contacts with Russians before there was an investigation, so it isn't possible that that non-existent investigation being politically motivated is a reason for lying.
We're talking about them lying to investigators.

By your logic, that makes you a liar because that's not what I said. But that's not what you did, nor what I have done. We have simply had a miscommunication or misinterpretation or taken things out of context or gotten things in error or forgot to clarify things. Also, someone having a different opinion than you is not a lie, nor is it trolling. Just because a person makes crappy points and gets frustrated, and has a poor grasp of human behavior, doesn't mean the person they're talking to is lying.

Anyways, they lied about it beforehand because the media would take anything they said out of context and manipulate it like the vultures they are. Duh.

Only an idiot would be completely open and honest with the media. The media doesn't give a flying f about you. They will manipulate and obfuscate anything they can to make a story and get ratings. Seriously dude, I'm sorry to say this, but how clueless can you get?

Mr. C, you're a good person. The world needs people like you. But when it comes to understanding human behavior and the nasty crap that goes on, you really don't get it. Like, you can't even comprehend the many different reasons someone would lie to the cops about being with a hooker. Your mind latches onto a single explanation and stays fixed there and disregards other alternatives. It took me 5 seconds to list 10 reasons someone might lie about visiting a hooker. If you aren't able to do that, you really shouldn't be judging criminal activity and analyzing people.


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2447 on: December 18, 2018, 12:55:38 pm »
To further understand the reasons people lie. Let's take "imaginary person X". Person X is asked "Have you smoked marijuana in the last 12 months?" Person X lives in Colorado.

Person X answers...

To their friends in Korea: Hell yeah, and I was blazing before then. Me and my boys were growing that shit yo. Part of a network.
To mom and dad: Of course not mom.
To their boss in Korea: No. Drugs are evil.
To their doctor: Uhhh.....maybe?
To the cops: Only since it was legal.
To the "cool" cop: Yeah. You know that time you pulled me over? I had just finished smoking. Oh shit, you knew?
To the feds: I have never had anything to do with illicit narcotics ever.
To their clean and sober gf: Absolutely not babe, you know that stuff is long behind me.
To your friends back home: Nah, still haven't tried it.

Now why are they lying? In some cases it IS because of criminal activity.

Now, which is the lie? The thing is, you don't know. He might be lying to his friends trying to sound big (The Carter Page). He might be lying to his mom just because that's what you do with mom, even though she knows. You might be lying to your boss in Korea because they'll fire you. They might be lying to their doctor because they don't want a finger up their ass. They might lie to their gf so they don't have a fight and they want sex that night. They might be lying to their friends because they want to maintain their clean cut image. Or any one of those answers could be true.

In terms of the cops, maybe he lies just for the fun of it. Maybe he lies to sound big because he's about to go back into holding and doesn't want to sound like a sissy and has actually never smoked. Maybe he's illegally growing and distributing. Maybe he forgot that it's legal now and got nervous. Maybe he has serious weight lying around at home. Maybe his roommate is an illegal alien and he doesn't want him to get deported. Maybe he doesn't want to lose custody. Maybe his med card is expired. Maybe he's a pervert and wants to get stripped searched right there and is lying to make that happen. 

The point is that there are a host of reasons and you can't assume organized criminal activity or individual criminal activity as the reason. Now anyone with any knowledge and experience, would be able to understand that stuff right off the bat and instinctively and reflexivelyknow this point. Like seriously, everyone who talks about drugs is either BSing about how they've done so much or they're BSing about how little they've done (I know, I know, some people tell the truth. Just ask them about gambling or internet porn or something and they'll start to lie about that).


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2448 on: December 18, 2018, 01:20:27 pm »
To further understand the reasons people lie. Let's take "imaginary person X". Person X is asked "Have you smoked marijuana in the last 12 months?" Person X lives in Colorado.

Person X answers...

To their friends in Korea: Hell yeah, and I was blazing before then. Me and my boys were growing that shit yo. Part of a network.
To mom and dad: Of course not mom.
To their boss in Korea: No. Drugs are evil.
To their doctor: Uhhh.....maybe?
To the cops: Only since it was legal.
To the "cool" cop: Yeah. You know that time you pulled me over? I had just finished smoking. Oh shit, you knew?
To the feds: I have never had anything to do with illicit narcotics ever.
To their clean and sober gf: Absolutely not babe, you know that stuff is long behind me.
To your friends back home: Nah, still haven't tried it.

Now why are they lying? In some cases it IS because of criminal activity.

Now, which is the lie? The thing is, you don't know. He might be lying to his friends trying to sound big (The Carter Page). He might be lying to his mom just because that's what you do with mom, even though she knows. You might be lying to your boss in Korea because they'll fire you. They might be lying to their doctor because they don't want a finger up their ass. They might lie to their gf so they don't have a fight and they want sex that night. They might be lying to their friends because they want to maintain their clean cut image. Or any one of those answers could be true.

In terms of the cops, maybe he lies just for the fun of it. Maybe he lies to sound big because he's about to go back into holding and doesn't want to sound like a sissy and has actually never smoked. Maybe he's illegally growing and distributing. Maybe he forgot that it's legal now and got nervous. Maybe he has serious weight lying around at home. Maybe his roommate is an illegal alien and he doesn't want him to get deported. Maybe he doesn't want to lose custody. Maybe his med card is expired. Maybe he's a pervert and wants to get stripped searched right there and is lying to make that happen. 

The point is that there are a host of reasons and you can't assume organized criminal activity or individual criminal activity as the reason. Now anyone with any knowledge and experience, would be able to understand that stuff right off the bat and instinctively and reflexivelyknow this point. Like seriously, everyone who talks about drugs is either BSing about how they've done so much or they're BSing about how little they've done (I know, I know, some people tell the truth. Just ask them about gambling or internet porn or something and they'll start to lie about that).

what in the **** is this post. for one, who is this cool cop that people brag about smoking weed to? that's some out of touch shit, my friend.

also, if you think "person X" is representative of most people (and im not saying you do, but just in case...), then i think you don't know normal people as well as you think you do. you didn't have to make this twisted example to get your point across. people lie when they have a reason to (parents, bosses, cops, etc.) and tell the truth when they have no reason to lie.  if you have no reason to lie and you lie anyways, uhhhh that's definitely some kind of special psychological condition.

the problem here is that there are a few people connected to trump that had reasons to lie. does it mean that they were involved in some super elaborate plan to overthrow america? no.

does it mean they just lied because they didn't want their wives to find out (or some other less heinous reason)? no.

it could be either, right?

what grinds my gears is that the goal post has moved from "this is a pointless investigation that will just waste time and money" to "nothing they did was THAT bad." i'm not sure where we're going next (perhaps it ends here), but i think it's good that these things are coming to light.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2018, 01:23:12 pm by tylerthegloob »


  • Adel
  • Expert Waygook

    • 642

    • January 30, 2015, 12:50:26 am
    • The Abyss
    more
Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2449 on: December 19, 2018, 02:45:35 am »
To further understand the reasons people lie. Let's take "imaginary person X". Person X is asked "Have you smoked marijuana in the last 12 months?" Person X lives in Colorado.

Person X answers...

To their friends in Korea: Hell yeah, and I was blazing before then. Me and my boys were growing that shit yo. Part of a network.
To mom and dad: Of course not mom.
To their boss in Korea: No. Drugs are evil.
To their doctor: Uhhh.....maybe?
To the cops: Only since it was legal.
To the "cool" cop: Yeah. You know that time you pulled me over? I had just finished smoking. Oh shit, you knew?
To the feds: I have never had anything to do with illicit narcotics ever.
To their clean and sober gf: Absolutely not babe, you know that stuff is long behind me.
To your friends back home: Nah, still haven't tried it.

Now why are they lying? In some cases it IS because of criminal activity.

Now, which is the lie? The thing is, you don't know. He might be lying to his friends trying to sound big (The Carter Page). He might be lying to his mom just because that's what you do with mom, even though she knows. You might be lying to your boss in Korea because they'll fire you. They might be lying to their doctor because they don't want a finger up their ass. They might lie to their gf so they don't have a fight and they want sex that night. They might be lying to their friends because they want to maintain their clean cut image. Or any one of those answers could be true.

In terms of the cops, maybe he lies just for the fun of it. Maybe he lies to sound big because he's about to go back into holding and doesn't want to sound like a sissy and has actually never smoked. Maybe he's illegally growing and distributing. Maybe he forgot that it's legal now and got nervous. Maybe he has serious weight lying around at home. Maybe his roommate is an illegal alien and he doesn't want him to get deported. Maybe he doesn't want to lose custody. Maybe his med card is expired. Maybe he's a pervert and wants to get stripped searched right there and is lying to make that happen. 

The point is that there are a host of reasons and you can't assume organized criminal activity or individual criminal activity as the reason. Now anyone with any knowledge and experience, would be able to understand that stuff right off the bat and instinctively and reflexivelyknow this point. Like seriously, everyone who talks about drugs is either BSing about how they've done so much or they're BSing about how little they've done (I know, I know, some people tell the truth. Just ask them about gambling or internet porn or something and they'll start to lie about that).

what in the **** is this post. for one, who is this cool cop that people brag about smoking weed to? that's some out of touch shit, my friend.


He must've been talking about this totally authentic youtube cop.  :police:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=riSMsMsyORA

« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 02:48:17 am by Adel »


  • gogators!
  • The Legend

    • 3684

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2450 on: December 19, 2018, 06:28:40 am »
To further understand the reasons people lie. Let's take "imaginary person X". Person X is asked "Have you smoked marijuana in the last 12 months?" Person X lives in Colorado.

Person X answers...

To their friends in Korea: Hell yeah, and I was blazing before then. Me and my boys were growing that shit yo. Part of a network.
To mom and dad: Of course not mom.
To their boss in Korea: No. Drugs are evil.
To their doctor: Uhhh.....maybe?
To the cops: Only since it was legal.
To the "cool" cop: Yeah. You know that time you pulled me over? I had just finished smoking. Oh shit, you knew?
To the feds: I have never had anything to do with illicit narcotics ever.
To their clean and sober gf: Absolutely not babe, you know that stuff is long behind me.
To your friends back home: Nah, still haven't tried it.

Now why are they lying? In some cases it IS because of criminal activity.

Now, which is the lie? The thing is, you don't know. He might be lying to his friends trying to sound big (The Carter Page). He might be lying to his mom just because that's what you do with mom, even though she knows. You might be lying to your boss in Korea because they'll fire you. They might be lying to their doctor because they don't want a finger up their ass. They might lie to their gf so they don't have a fight and they want sex that night. They might be lying to their friends because they want to maintain their clean cut image. Or any one of those answers could be true.

In terms of the cops, maybe he lies just for the fun of it. Maybe he lies to sound big because he's about to go back into holding and doesn't want to sound like a sissy and has actually never smoked. Maybe he's illegally growing and distributing. Maybe he forgot that it's legal now and got nervous. Maybe he has serious weight lying around at home. Maybe his roommate is an illegal alien and he doesn't want him to get deported. Maybe he doesn't want to lose custody. Maybe his med card is expired. Maybe he's a pervert and wants to get stripped searched right there and is lying to make that happen. 

The point is that there are a host of reasons and you can't assume organized criminal activity or individual criminal activity as the reason. Now anyone with any knowledge and experience, would be able to understand that stuff right off the bat and instinctively and reflexivelyknow this point. Like seriously, everyone who talks about drugs is either BSing about how they've done so much or they're BSing about how little they've done (I know, I know, some people tell the truth. Just ask them about gambling or internet porn or something and they'll start to lie about that).
Skip the hypotheticals and tell us why YOU lie.


  • Mr C
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1682

    • October 17, 2012, 03:00:40 pm
    • Seoul
Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2451 on: December 19, 2018, 07:45:01 am »
Like, you can't even comprehend the many different reasons someone would lie to the cops about being with a hooker. Your mind latches onto a single explanation and stays fixed there and disregards other alternatives. It took me 5 seconds to list 10 reasons someone might lie about visiting a hooker. If you aren't able to do that, you really shouldn't be judging criminal activity and analyzing people.

So, to summarize:

I think the most likely reason a person might lie in a police interview if they think they might have committed a crime is because they think what they did is illegal and they will get in trouble.

You can think of many reasons such a person would lie, but almost certainly not because what he did was illegal. 

In fact, judging from your comments, people lie to the police basically for no reason at all other than it's just human nature to lie.

We will have to agree to disagree.

But before we go, let's consider one more scenario:  Mr DeMartino asks a colleague what their plans are for the weekend.  The colleage lies to Mr DeMartino.  To DeMartino, the reason is simply because the default position is to lie to other people.  Another purely hypothetical reason is that the colleague can't stand DeMartino and certainly doesn't want to spend any time with him outside of work.  I think I analyze people just fine, if only in a purely hypothetical way.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 08:44:25 am by Mr C »


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2452 on: December 19, 2018, 09:14:59 am »
what in the **** is this post. for one, who is this cool cop that people brag about smoking weed to? that's some out of touch shit, my friend.
You'd be surprised. It depends on where you go and who you are. If you're a regular at a certain bar that a cop likes to go to and you're a regular and you get to talking, they can spot things. Wasn't me, but my ex roommate. A big part of it was he served in Desert Storm, so he kind of got a pass.

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and tell the truth when they have no reason to lie.  if you have no reason to lie and you lie anyways, uhhhh that's definitely some kind of special psychological condition.
People will lie even when they have no reason to lie. For many it's because they're nervous or are trying to fit in (which I guess is a reason). Yes, there are compulsive liars who have psychological issues, but we're talking normal people and the fact that they often lie. Think about the dentist. Pretty much everyone who walks in lies. Same with the doctor.

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the problem here is that there are a few people connected to trump that had reasons to lie. does it mean that they were involved in some super elaborate plan to overthrow america? no.

does it mean they just lied because they didn't want their wives to find out (or some other less heinous reason)? no.

it could be either, right?
Could be either, neither, or both. People have different reasons to lie. If you talk to dozens of people, yeah a few will get caught telling a lie. That doesn't mean they're all part of some sort of interconnected web.

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what grinds my gears is that the goal post has moved from "this is a pointless investigation that will just waste time and money" to "nothing they did was THAT bad." i'm not sure where we're going next (perhaps it ends here), but i think it's good that these things are coming to light.

Look into things, sure. The problem is the media circus that treats this as more than just a fact-finding investigation and the way they have primed people to assume guilt. There's also the fact that they deliberately put things out of context and promote nonsense like Russian facebook ads changing the outcome of the election.

This should be done like the 9/11 Commission report. Something that's going on largely in the background and done to see "What happened", not going in with pre-drawn conclusions and an open-ended mandate to prosecute.


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2453 on: December 19, 2018, 09:39:51 am »

Look into things, sure. The problem is the media circus that treats this as more than just a fact-finding investigation and the way they have primed people to assume guilt. There's also the fact that they deliberately put things out of context and promote nonsense like Russian facebook ads changing the outcome of the election.

This should be done like the 9/11 Commission report. Something that's going on largely in the background and done to see "What happened", not going in with pre-drawn conclusions and an open-ended mandate to prosecute.

yeah, this is trump's america we are talking about. he thrives in the circus (remember the election?). there's a circus on both sides. let's not pretend that things have somehow gotten less professional and we have no idea why. this is what people voted for. they voted for the one dude because he was unprofessional. don't complain when the media starts to copy the style.

and people who are lying to the dentist have a reason, too. the fact remains that people do not lie for no reason unless they have some kind of condition.


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2454 on: December 19, 2018, 09:43:01 am »
So, to summarize:
I think the most likely reason a person might lie in a police interview if they think they might have committed a crime is because they think what they did is illegal and they will get in trouble.
You're making the false assumption that they think they might have committed a crime. They could be a witness and still lie. Maybe they fear retaliation. Maybe they don't believe in snitching. Maybe they're lying about doing hookers and blow with some Russian.

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You can think of many reasons such a person would lie, but almost certainly not because what he did was illegal. 
Where did I ever say "almost certainly not" or even imply it?

Now, if I were you, I would declare you a liar because you got something wrong. Well, I'm not going to do that. I'm just going to say "You're wrong."

All I said, is that there are many reasons that someone could lie and you can't assume anything because they lied.

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In fact, judging from your comments, people lie to the police basically for no reason at all other than it's just human nature to lie.
Given that in the course of a crime, police will talk to 5, 10, 20, 50, 100 people and often only ONE of them is guilty, yet virtually all of them will lie about something, you have to conclude that people lie because they are guilty, but also a host of other reasons.

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We will have to agree to disagree.
To be civil, I'd say yes. But really, you don't know what the heck you're talking about in this case. Nothing you're saying is based on any understanding of criminal investigation or human behavior and psychology.

I mean we haven't even gotten into how unreliable human memory and perception of reality is and how that can be confused for lying.

Your flawed view seems to be that your view is good and that most people are good and don't normally lie. Anyone with a clue about human behavior knows that humans lie constantly about everything. That tinder photo doesn't show the real you. That facebook photo where you're smiling with everyone? Really you hate half those people's guts. And YOU Mr. C, somewhere in your life, you are doing some sort of lie and it's a lie you're probably not even conscious of it's become so routine.

If you think people who lie to the cops must be guilty of a crime, you'd have to lock up virtually every person who talks to the cops. Either that or you'd lock up the first suspect you interviewed and call it a day. That's how stupid people think. Are you stupid? I don't think so. I hope not.

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But before we go, let's consider one more scenario:  Mr DeMartino asks a colleague what their plans are for the weekend.  The colleage lies to Mr DeMartino.  To DeMartino, the reason is simply because the default position is to lie to other people.  Another purely hypothetical reason is that the colleague can't stand DeMartino and certainly doesn't want to spend any time with him outside of work.  I think I analyze people just fine, if only in a purely hypothetical way.
Was that an attempt to tell a joke? I couldn't tell. Nothing brings the laughs like "default position" and "purely hypothetical" as your punchline. Mr. C? More like Mr. Zzzzz.

No, but I kid. Glad you can try and be funny and banter. Probably sounded good in a George Plimpton voice.


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2455 on: December 19, 2018, 09:45:24 am »
and people who are lying to the dentist have a reason, too. the fact remains that people do not lie for no reason unless they have some kind of condition.
That would mean that virtually everyone has a condition because between people dealing with dentists, doctors, cops, taxes, and bosses, the lying rate of people on Earth is at like, 99.9%


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2456 on: December 19, 2018, 09:51:44 am »
and people who are lying to the dentist have a reason, too. the fact remains that people do not lie for no reason unless they have some kind of condition.
That would mean that virtually everyone has a condition because between people dealing with dentists, doctors, cops, taxes, and bosses, the lying rate of people on Earth is at like, 99.9%

read what i wrote again


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2457 on: December 19, 2018, 09:56:25 am »
and people who are lying to the dentist have a reason, too. the fact remains that people do not lie for no reason unless they have some kind of condition.
That would mean that virtually everyone has a condition because between people dealing with dentists, doctors, cops, taxes, and bosses, the lying rate of people on Earth is at like, 99.9%
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read what i wrote again
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But people usually have no reason to lie to them. No rational one. People are overwhelmingly irrational.

If you're talking compulsive chronic lying, sure. But it hasn't been established that the people charged with perjury are COMPULSIVE liars. However, they are people, which means they do lie, especially when nervous.


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2458 on: December 19, 2018, 10:59:20 am »
People are overwhelmingly irrational.


Some people, anyway.


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2459 on: December 19, 2018, 11:10:40 am »
People are overwhelmingly irrational.


Some people, anyway.

You really believe you're rational?