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  • Adel
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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2080 on: August 29, 2018, 10:57:19 am »
Do any of you think that Trump really is insane or senile?
Oh come now Martino, ol'drunken Doc Ronny Jackson cleared all that up a while back when Trump was able to identify a rhino, lion and camel on the Montreal Cognitive Assessment. Surely you don't have anymore doubts do you?

Well what do you think? Is Trump insane or suffering from senility?

The mere fact that you have repeatedly asked yourself this question about your president should be cause for concern.
Let alone the fact his mental state has been openly discussed by a number of individuals more qualified than either you or I to comment seriously on the topic.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 11:02:04 am by Adel »


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2081 on: August 29, 2018, 12:03:37 pm »
The mere fact that you have repeatedly asked yourself this question about your president should be cause for concern.
Let alone the fact his mental state has been openly discussed by a number of individuals more qualified than either you or I to comment seriously on the topic.

I'm asking you- Do you think Trump is insane or suffering from senility?


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2082 on: August 29, 2018, 12:42:33 pm »
The mere fact that you have repeatedly asked yourself this question about your president should be cause for concern.
Let alone the fact his mental state has been openly discussed by a number of individuals more qualified than either you or I to comment seriously on the topic.

I'm asking you- Do you think Trump is insane or suffering from senility?

While I'm unqualified to judge, I wouldn't say he's completely insane or senile.   From my observation, I'd say some degree of narcissistic personality disorder is quite likely.  Lately though, I'd imagine he'd be suffering from a fair amount of anxiety.  His late night twitter rants are not the behavior of a healthy and well balanced individual.


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2083 on: August 29, 2018, 02:23:09 pm »
While I'm unqualified to judge, I wouldn't say he's completely insane or senile.   From my observation, I'd say some degree of narcissistic personality disorder is quite likely.  Lately though, I'd imagine he'd be suffering from a fair amount of anxiety.  His late night twitter rants are not the behavior of a healthy and well balanced individual.

That's fair. As long as people are consistent over whether Trump is insane or he has some sort of senility/mental defect or he's just a conniving schemer (last is by far the most likely). I know some people are just having fun with the senility/insanity stuff, but there's a portion who seem to genuinely believe it. If someone genuinely thinks Trump is senile/demented, then he can't be successfully prosecuted for collusion and it would seriously call into question whether he was even capable of undertaking such a scheme.


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2084 on: August 29, 2018, 02:41:15 pm »

B) the president is fascist.
C) the president is a joke.


I don't think that fascists are a joke. Especially if they are president of a powerful country.


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2085 on: August 29, 2018, 03:39:23 pm »
In his sentence, despite the lamentable lack of commas, 'fascist' is clearly an adjective that is modifying "president".
The sentence is stating that:
A) the president is corrupt.
B) the president is fascist.
C) the president is a joke.
I don't think that fascists are a joke. Especially if they are president of a powerful country.
     I never said that fascists are a joke... nor has anybody else on this thread, which was kind of my point.

     I mean, Mr. Trump can be fairly entertaining (which is , aside from being somewhat wealthy, one of the only real requirements for becoming a successful politician these days), but that has very little to do with his alleged fascist-ness.  :undecided:


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2086 on: August 29, 2018, 09:11:58 pm »
NeedToImpeach.com

Nuff said.


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Trump's war on reality
« Reply #2087 on: August 31, 2018, 04:05:39 am »
Does anyone remember that Lester Holt interview where Trump admitted to obstructing justice by firing Comey because of the Russia investigation?  How could anyone you forget?
Well apparently it was baloney. :blank:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/trump-claims-without-evidence-that-nbc-was-caught-fudging-tv-interview-with-him/2018/08/30/a6a6ff94-ac55-11e8-b1da-ff7faa680710_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f3b74dc8cbd5

I look forward to his defenders waging their war with reality.   :laugh:


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2088 on: August 31, 2018, 10:05:46 am »
I thought googling "Trump News" gives you a direct link to Fox News.


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2089 on: September 01, 2018, 03:27:38 am »
Quote
A senior Justice Department lawyer says a former British spy told him at a breakfast meeting two years ago that Russian intelligence believed it had Donald Trump "over a barrel," according to multiple people familiar with the encounter.

The lawyer, Bruce Ohr, also says he learned that a Trump campaign aide had met with higher-level Russian officials than the aide had acknowledged, the people said.
The previously unreported details of the July 30, 2016, breakfast with Christopher Steele, which Ohr described to lawmakers this week in a private interview, reveal an exchange of potentially explosive information about Trump between two men the president has relentlessly sought to discredit.

Well, well...


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2090 on: September 03, 2018, 08:57:57 am »
While I'm unqualified to judge, I wouldn't say he's completely insane or senile.   From my observation, I'd say some degree of narcissistic personality disorder is quite likely.  Lately though, I'd imagine he'd be suffering from a fair amount of anxiety.  His late night twitter rants are not the behavior of a healthy and well balanced individual.

That's fair. As long as people are consistent over whether Trump is insane or he has some sort of senility/mental defect or he's just a conniving schemer (last is by far the most likely). I know some people are just having fun with the senility/insanity stuff, but there's a portion who seem to genuinely believe it. If someone genuinely thinks Trump is senile/demented, then he can't be successfully prosecuted for collusion and it would seriously call into question whether he was even capable of undertaking such a scheme.

I think people are, lamentably, using "insane" as shorthand for "has mental health issues to the point of being diagnose-able." I think personally that he definitely checks enough boxes that I would not be surprised if a mental health professional was able to diagnose him. But he'll never go to a therapist, so we'll never be able to say for sure, as laypeople.

Being a narcissist or having borderline personality disorder doesn't mean you're not on the hook for your crimes. It may, however, get you a lesser sentence in favor of therapy and rehabilitation.


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2091 on: September 03, 2018, 09:50:03 am »
While I'm unqualified to judge, I wouldn't say he's completely insane or senile.   From my observation, I'd say some degree of narcissistic personality disorder is quite likely.  Lately though, I'd imagine he'd be suffering from a fair amount of anxiety.  His late night twitter rants are not the behavior of a healthy and well balanced individual.

That's fair. As long as people are consistent over whether Trump is insane or he has some sort of senility/mental defect or he's just a conniving schemer (last is by far the most likely). I know some people are just having fun with the senility/insanity stuff, but there's a portion who seem to genuinely believe it. If someone genuinely thinks Trump is senile/demented, then he can't be successfully prosecuted for collusion and it would seriously call into question whether he was even capable of undertaking such a scheme.

I think people are, lamentably, using "insane" as shorthand for "has mental health issues to the point of being diagnose-able." I think personally that he definitely checks enough boxes that I would not be surprised if a mental health professional was able to diagnose him. But he'll never go to a therapist, so we'll never be able to say for sure, as laypeople.

Being a narcissist or having borderline personality disorder doesn't mean you're not on the hook for your crimes. It may, however, get you a lesser sentence in favor of therapy and rehabilitation.
I think caution should be used regarding mental illness diagnoses and someone's public persona

I mean, just look at comedians, pro wrestlers, and musicians.

You'd think Richard Sherman was a nutcase when he went on his rant a few years ago when in fact it was very likely a calculated move done in 'WWE style' by a guy who studied communications at Stanford and is pursuing a master's degree and sounds completely different in certain interviews.

Trump also comes from the Howard Stern-WWE verse where this kind of persona adoption is a thing. Never confuse kayfabe for real life.


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2092 on: September 04, 2018, 12:24:07 am »
While I'm unqualified to judge, I wouldn't say he's completely insane or senile.   From my observation, I'd say some degree of narcissistic personality disorder is quite likely.  Lately though, I'd imagine he'd be suffering from a fair amount of anxiety.  His late night twitter rants are not the behavior of a healthy and well balanced individual.

That's fair. As long as people are consistent over whether Trump is insane or he has some sort of senility/mental defect or he's just a conniving schemer (last is by far the most likely). I know some people are just having fun with the senility/insanity stuff, but there's a portion who seem to genuinely believe it. If someone genuinely thinks Trump is senile/demented, then he can't be successfully prosecuted for collusion and it would seriously call into question whether he was even capable of undertaking such a scheme.

I think people are, lamentably, using "insane" as shorthand for "has mental health issues to the point of being diagnose-able." I think personally that he definitely checks enough boxes that I would not be surprised if a mental health professional was able to diagnose him. But he'll never go to a therapist, so we'll never be able to say for sure, as laypeople.

Being a narcissist or having borderline personality disorder doesn't mean you're not on the hook for your crimes. It may, however, get you a lesser sentence in favor of therapy and rehabilitation.
I think caution should be used regarding mental illness diagnoses and someone's public persona

I mean, just look at comedians, pro wrestlers, and musicians.

You'd think Richard Sherman was a nutcase when he went on his rant a few years ago when in fact it was very likely a calculated move done in 'WWE style' by a guy who studied communications at Stanford and is pursuing a master's degree and sounds completely different in certain interviews.

Trump also comes from the Howard Stern-WWE verse where this kind of persona adoption is a thing. Never confuse kayfabe for real life.
Or one could look at certain posters here.


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2093 on: September 04, 2018, 04:53:43 am »

Quote
Do any of you think that Trump really is insane or senile?

I think caution should be used regarding mental illness diagnoses and someone's public persona


If that's the case then perhaps you should refrain from positing the question in an effort to prompt the discussion.

Nonetheless, I've given an answer so perhaps it would polite to share yours with regards to the state of your president's mental health. 

Do you acknowledge that any of his behavior might be indicative of a mental health problem? Please don't deflect. 


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2094 on: September 04, 2018, 09:04:32 am »

Quote
Do any of you think that Trump really is insane or senile?

I think caution should be used regarding mental illness diagnoses and someone's public persona


If that's the case then perhaps you should refrain from positing the question in an effort to prompt the discussion.

Nonetheless, I've given an answer so perhaps it would polite to share yours with regards to the state of your president's mental health. 

Do you acknowledge that any of his behavior might be indicative of a mental health problem? Please don't deflect.

I said be cautious, not that we shouldn't comment period.

I don't think Trump has mental health problems at all. By all accounts, his private persona differs greatly from his public persona. He clearly shows that he understands what he's saying and says it for effect. One of the best-known and first examples was his "Only Rosie O'Donnell" response during the debates. Now, liberals look at that and say "Trump's lying- he's deranged" or "Trump doesn't remember, he's senile". Anyone with half a brain looks at that and sees that Trump is using rhetorical technique to turn the tables on tricky question, and it worked.

Salena Zito, who made her mark as a reporter in the 2016 election, put it best- Trump's opponents take him literally but not seriously. Trump's supporters take him seriously, but not literally. If you take Trump literally, then you are making a grave mistake of comprehension and interpretation.

As far as things people use to say he's mentally ill- his narcissism and his ego. Again, there's public and private persona. Is it who he is, or is it a public character or projection? Secondly, are those always crippling? Bill Clinton had a massive ego and was fairly succesful. People said Reagan was deranged and he actually was rather shrewd. Nixon had rampant paranoia but had many remarkable accomplishments that really made the world a better/different place-EPA, opening China, getting us out of Vietnam, fiat currency, etc. LBJ would flash his pecker at staffers and had a massive ego and he got a lot done. You have to have a certain level of ego and yes, narcissism to rise that high in modern politics, barring tumultuous circumstances. It's similar to great athletes and performers- they have to have a certain level of ego to believe they're great and what they're doing is great.

Let's look back at what has taken place under Trump- ISIS is defeated. The economy is booming. Consumer confidence is high. Unemployment is low. No major wars. Even US carbon emissions are down. Now you can say that this was all started by Obama and you'd be right, but Trump certainly hasn't messed it up and SOME of it IS because of Trump. But here's the funny part, a lot of the bad stuff people freak out about was also under Obama and was stuff that wasn't being addressed- Our immigration policy was broken, our China, NATO and NAFTA policies at the very least were due for a major overhaul (which shouldn't be controversial- things change and every 20 or so years, our allies should get together and look at things that need to be changed), our Russia policy was broken. The embassy move to Israel (which was supposed to spark a war but didn't- wrong again liberals!) recognizes reality.

If anything Trump is like the scary monster that gets misunderstood and chased by the pitchfork mob because it talks different and acts a little funny, even though he's done a bunch of good things.

Peple say Trump's a bad businessman because theoretically he could have just put his money in the S&P 500 and made more. What they don't consider is the intangible assets he acquired along the way. The man has gone from being nobody into having money, tremendous amounts of political power, a real army at his disposal + an army of supporters that numbers in the 10s of millions and are rather devoted, women, and being the most famous person on the planet. Sounds pretty shrewd to me and that what he has is worth far more. And he wouldn't have gotten those things if he didn't take the risks and have the various failures he did along the way. Nobody gets every investment right.

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2095 on: September 04, 2018, 09:35:10 am »
If you want to talk mental illness, let's look at Trump's detractors. Here's a great indicator that they're the ones who might be having the problem. It's called "Her Opponent". It features Trump as a woman and Clinton as a man. Being a production from a liberal New York college, everyone expected it to reveal the awful, terrible sexism of Trump supporters and validate their belief in their reality because they're liberal.

That didn't happen.

In fact what did happen was a rude awakening and a gut punch. Male Clinton was loathed. People realized she was basically blabbering on about nothing and really saying nothing of substance and was incredibly deceitful. Female Trump on the other hand was seen as tough and challenging and charismatic.
https://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publications/news/2017/march/trump-clinton-debates-gender-reversal.html

I think we're in the middle of one of the great mass hysterias of modern times when it comes to how freaked out people are by Trump. Look at the cognitive dissonance involved- Trump is a Russian agent...yet none of our allies is threatening war with Russia over their biggest ally being taken over by a Russian agent. People claiming it's doom and Hitler 2.0...while wearing pink hats, dressing as vaginas, and then heading out later that night to the club and posting cat pictures on Instagram. People claiming we're living in the Handmaid's Tale- that's right, Cosplay as political movement. 200 Nazis/White Supremacists gather for a nationwide meeting and somehow people are convinced that Nazis are a significant political movement in the U.S.

Now, there are a number of Trump supporters who have gone off the deep end as well (QAnon). But for a large number, Trump's foibles were baked in. They know he tells lies. They know he isn't a paragon of virtue. The thing was, he never ran as someone who was. He didn't pretend he was a saint. Trump may be a liar, but he isn't a hypocraite and he does what he promises to do- he really does want to build a wall, tear up bad deals and make new ones, appoint conservative justices, insult the media (all the while pacing and leading and working towards a settlement, which many of his supporters also recognize).

Perhaps the second most prescient article on the 2016 campaign touched on this issue of Trump's supporters. It was called "The Flight 93 Election". For Republicans, conservatives, and in some cases, middle Americans, people felt like they were on a plane hurtling towards destruction and that this was their last chance. If they lost again, the Democrats might gain permanent control and the country would irrevocably shift significantly to the left, possibly radically. Trump, like the food cart banging the cockpit door, was an imperfect tool to stop it, but it was all they had.

Another author addressed it that millions of Americans in rural and small town America felt like the plain girl who had been dumped by her boyfriend at the dance for the sexy new girl in town. Trump was the football player who maybe drinks too much and people think is a bit of a jerk, but he came over to them and grabbed them by the hand and took them on the dance floor and made everything alright. And when people said he was taking advantage of her, he actually really did put himself on the line (he's taking a MAJOR risk with his brand) Having done that, they are very unlikely to turn their backs on him, and justifiably so, for the Democratic Party DID turn their back on them. This is a RATIONAL decision by millions of rural and small town Americans.

So in conclusion, while there is delusion on both sides in the form of THE RESISTANCE and the WTF of QAnon, since I think the Resistance is a greater share of the left at the current moment, it is Trump's staunch opponents who have more to worry about and perhaps need to take a step back.


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2096 on: September 04, 2018, 09:59:54 am »
Viva la Resistance! They (we) are fighting for the ideals America was founded on. And we're making progress.

Vote DEM in November!


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2097 on: September 04, 2018, 10:13:35 am »
Viva la Resistance! They (we) are fighting for the ideals America was founded on. And we're making progress.

Vote DEM in November!

Depends on what they're running for. I'm looking at some of the Dem candidates in state and local. But sorry, I'm taking James over Stabenow (my congressional district is solid blue).

The Resistance isn't fighting for anything. They're reflexively resisting and having put forth any alternatives.


Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2098 on: September 04, 2018, 10:19:48 am »
Viva la Resistance! They (we) are fighting for the ideals America was founded on. And we're making progress.

Vote DEM in November!

Depends on what they're running for. I'm looking at some of the Dem candidates in state and local. But sorry, I'm taking James over Stabenow (my congressional district is solid blue).

The Resistance isn't fighting for anything. They're reflexively resisting and having put forth any alternatives.

That sounds like something a Tory would've said leading up to the revolution...

Not to imply we're on the brink of a revolution. Just my thoughts on your attitude here.


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #2099 on: September 04, 2018, 10:24:17 am »
Viva la Resistance! They (we) are fighting for the ideals America was founded on. And we're making progress.

Vote DEM in November!

Depends on what they're running for. I'm looking at some of the Dem candidates in state and local. But sorry, I'm taking James over Stabenow (my congressional district is solid blue).

The Resistance isn't fighting for anything. They're reflexively resisting and having put forth any alternatives.

If you can't see what Dem candidates are running for then you're not looking hard enough.

Policy and social issues aside, just holding Trump and his cohorts to account sounds like a solid enough platform.

If anything, Republican incumbents are running poor campaigns because they can't rally against Obama anymore and it's showing that they have nothing to show for their time in office.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2018, 10:25:59 am by Savant »