Quote from: Mr C on October 13, 2017, 12:08:35 pmQuote from: Mr.DeMartino on October 13, 2017, 09:26:51 am$300k of facebook ads brainwashed 10s of thousands of people to vote Trump. Another thing that fits: facts don't matter so you can just make stuff up.QuoteBy Election Day, Trump’s campaign had spent roughly $70 million on Facebook alone — nearly all in the last four months of the election, according to people familiar with the spending.https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-campaigns-embrace-of-facebook-shows-companys-growing-reach-in-elections/2017/10/08/e5e5f156-a93b-11e7-b3aa-c0e2e1d41e38_story.htmlAnd Clinton spent big on internet ads as well. Are you saying that Trump's ads are magically more effective?
Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on October 13, 2017, 09:26:51 am$300k of facebook ads brainwashed 10s of thousands of people to vote Trump. Another thing that fits: facts don't matter so you can just make stuff up.QuoteBy Election Day, Trump’s campaign had spent roughly $70 million on Facebook alone — nearly all in the last four months of the election, according to people familiar with the spending.https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-campaigns-embrace-of-facebook-shows-companys-growing-reach-in-elections/2017/10/08/e5e5f156-a93b-11e7-b3aa-c0e2e1d41e38_story.html
$300k of facebook ads brainwashed 10s of thousands of people to vote Trump.
By Election Day, Trump’s campaign had spent roughly $70 million on Facebook alone — nearly all in the last four months of the election, according to people familiar with the spending.
Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on October 13, 2017, 12:12:09 pmQuote from: Mr C on October 13, 2017, 12:08:35 pmQuote from: Mr.DeMartino on October 13, 2017, 09:26:51 am$300k of facebook ads brainwashed 10s of thousands of people to vote Trump. Another thing that fits: facts don't matter so you can just make stuff up.QuoteBy Election Day, Trump’s campaign had spent roughly $70 million on Facebook alone — nearly all in the last four months of the election, according to people familiar with the spending.https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-campaigns-embrace-of-facebook-shows-companys-growing-reach-in-elections/2017/10/08/e5e5f156-a93b-11e7-b3aa-c0e2e1d41e38_story.htmlAnd Clinton spent big on internet ads as well. Are you saying that Trump's ads are magically more effective? No, I'm saying that you just make $hit up. Or, alternatively, you have no idea what you're talking about. Or both.
Quote from: Mr C on October 14, 2017, 04:42:46 pmQuote from: Mr.DeMartino on October 13, 2017, 12:12:09 pmQuote from: Mr C on October 13, 2017, 12:08:35 pmQuote from: Mr.DeMartino on October 13, 2017, 09:26:51 am$300k of facebook ads brainwashed 10s of thousands of people to vote Trump. Another thing that fits: facts don't matter so you can just make stuff up.QuoteBy Election Day, Trump’s campaign had spent roughly $70 million on Facebook alone — nearly all in the last four months of the election, according to people familiar with the spending.https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-campaigns-embrace-of-facebook-shows-companys-growing-reach-in-elections/2017/10/08/e5e5f156-a93b-11e7-b3aa-c0e2e1d41e38_story.htmlAnd Clinton spent big on internet ads as well. Are you saying that Trump's ads are magically more effective? No, I'm saying that you just make $hit up. Or, alternatively, you have no idea what you're talking about. Or both.And your evidence that these facebook ads swayed any votes relative to other ads is....?Who is making shit up? You haven't even seen the ads. Again, IF, IF they were effective, Russia would be the new advertising capital of the globe. They aren't. Money talks. There's no Boris Draper magically persuading people to vite for Trump and Brexit.
Trump, the man of the working people, has just f*cked them over with his latest action on Obamacare subsidies.
Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on Yesterday at 01:40:32 Trump is a liar and a con man.
Quote from Mr.DeMartino on June 14, 2019 at 02:28:07 Donald Trump is a lying sack of shit
Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on October 14, 2017, 07:05:15 pmQuote from: Mr C on October 14, 2017, 04:42:46 pmQuote from: Mr.DeMartino on October 13, 2017, 12:12:09 pmQuote from: Mr C on October 13, 2017, 12:08:35 pmQuote from: Mr.DeMartino on October 13, 2017, 09:26:51 am$300k of facebook ads brainwashed 10s of thousands of people to vote Trump. Another thing that fits: facts don't matter so you can just make stuff up.QuoteBy Election Day, Trump’s campaign had spent roughly $70 million on Facebook alone — nearly all in the last four months of the election, according to people familiar with the spending.https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-campaigns-embrace-of-facebook-shows-companys-growing-reach-in-elections/2017/10/08/e5e5f156-a93b-11e7-b3aa-c0e2e1d41e38_story.htmlAnd Clinton spent big on internet ads as well. Are you saying that Trump's ads are magically more effective? No, I'm saying that you just make $hit up. Or, alternatively, you have no idea what you're talking about. Or both.And your evidence that these facebook ads swayed any votes relative to other ads is....?Who is making shit up? You haven't even seen the ads. Again, IF, IF they were effective, Russia would be the new advertising capital of the globe. They aren't. Money talks. There's no Boris Draper magically persuading people to vite for Trump and Brexit.No one can be this stupid! You suggested Trump campaign spent $300,000 on FB ads. That was untrue. It is a lie. I showed a real source, not some made up BS in your brain, showing that the Trump campaign spent AT LEAST $75 MILLION on FB ads. $300,000 is 0.4 % of $75 million. You are lying by 99.6 %.I'm not talking about the Russians, I'm not talking about Hillary Clinton, I'm not talking about Boris Draper. I'm talking about YOU. And you just make stuff up.
When the people sent it to me, it was funny," Arnold said, explaining that hundreds of people have seen the footage that was sent around years ago as a Christmas video."He wasn't going to be president of the United States. It was him sitting in that chair using the N-word, using the C-word, calling his son [intellectually disabled]," Arnold said.Arnold then went on to recount the Sunday before the election, allegedly being called by good friend Arnold Schwarzenegger's CAA agent and Hillary Clinton, asking for him to release the tapes.But at that point, Arnold asserted that the people originally responsible for the distribution of the footage, two editors and an associate producer, were "scared to death.""They were scared of his people. They're scared they'll never work again," said Arnold. "There's a $5-million confidentiality agreement.
Both the “Secured Borders” and “Beyond Patriotic” pages revealed by the Daily Beast were steeped in anti-Clinton rhetoric, with the latter organizing on-the-ground rallies that featured Americans chanting to “lock her up!” In one example from “Secured Borders,” the authors — referring to Clinton as “Killary” — piggy-backed on the outrage over Clinton’s comments that certain Trump supporters are “deplorables.” As the post wrote, “If Killary thinks that being American, loving your country and be concerned about ours and our children’s future is deplorable, then hell yeah count me in in that basket! [sic]”
Russia used multiple fake Facebook groups that were directly racial or focused on wedge issues such as “Blactivist”, “United Muslims for America”, “Heart of Texas”, ”Defend the 2nd”, ”LGBT United” and “Secured Borders” to fan the flames of division in America to benefit Trump. These six groups alone received 340 Million views combined while Facebook has admitted that there were over 400 of these types of accounts.
Are they?If they had any impact AT ALL...which they DID... that's shameful. The election was extremely close. To say the Russian ads were enough to throw it is not unreasonable. Many factors could. Enough to change the course of history. Clinton got 65,844,954 votes.Trump got 62,979,879.
Donald Trump came to the Detroit Economic Club and stood there in front of the Ford Motor executives and said, “If you close these factories, as you’re planning to do in Detroit, and build them in Mexico, I’m going to put a 35 percent tariff on those cars when you send them back, and nobody is going to buy them.” It was an amazing thing to see. No politician, Republican or Democrat, had ever said anything like that to these executives.And it was music to the ears of people in Michigan and Ohio and Pennsylvania and Wisconsin—the Brexit states. If you live here in Ohio, you know what I’m talking about. Whether Trump means it or not is kind of irrelevant, because he’s saying the things to people who are hurting. And it’s why every beaten-down, nameless, forgotten working stiff who used to be part of what was called the middle class loves Trump. He is the human Molotov cocktail that they’ve been waiting for, the human hand grenade that they can legally throw into the system that stole their lives from them.
And people in this forum are caliming they and trumped up aren't racist. And yet:QuoteWhen the people sent it to me, it was funny," Arnold said, explaining that hundreds of people have seen the footage that was sent around years ago as a Christmas video."He wasn't going to be president of the United States. It was him sitting in that chair using the N-word, using the C-word, calling his son [intellectually disabled]," Arnold said.Arnold then went on to recount the Sunday before the election, allegedly being called by good friend Arnold Schwarzenegger's CAA agent and Hillary Clinton, asking for him to release the tapes.But at that point, Arnold asserted that the people originally responsible for the distribution of the footage, two editors and an associate producer, were "scared to death.""They were scared of his people. They're scared they'll never work again," said Arnold. "There's a $5-million confidentiality agreement.And trumped up and his campaign picked up and furthered the messages from the russki ads:Quote Both the “Secured Borders” and “Beyond Patriotic” pages revealed by the Daily Beast were steeped in anti-Clinton rhetoric, with the latter organizing on-the-ground rallies that featured Americans chanting to “lock her up!” In one example from “Secured Borders,” the authors — referring to Clinton as “Killary” — piggy-backed on the outrage over Clinton’s comments that certain Trump supporters are “deplorables.” As the post wrote, “If Killary thinks that being American, loving your country and be concerned about ours and our children’s future is deplorable, then hell yeah count me in in that basket! [sic]”It's not just the amount of money spent:QuoteRussia used multiple fake Facebook groups that were directly racial or focused on wedge issues such as “Blactivist”, “United Muslims for America”, “Heart of Texas”, ”Defend the 2nd”, ”LGBT United” and “Secured Borders” to fan the flames of division in America to benefit Trump. These six groups alone received 340 Million views combined while Facebook has admitted that there were over 400 of these types of accounts.What say ye, Comrade sr/dm?
As I said, just because that stuff was there, doesn't mean that it had any significant influence. For starters, I'm guessing "LGBT United" and "Defend the 2nd" pretty much canceled each other out, assuming they even had an effect.Also, these aren't exactly unheard of positions or statements. They all existed well before Russia and the divisions were already there.It's the equivalent of a Russian McDonald's ad looking exactly like every other McDonald's ad that's out there in a sea of McDonald's ads. This is how the internet looked before you or I had ever heard of Russians. This has been building since Rush Limbaugh in the 90s. Believing its all because of the Russians is 9-11 conspiracy theory level thinking.
Mr.DeMartino, I feel that people who are worried about the Russian influence on America aren't saying that they're worried specifically about *which* messages the Russian troll farms are promoting (ie whether they're supporting Democratic or Republican stances). What I gather is that they're saying the Kremlin is choosing issues in order to fan the flames of social divide. A more polarized America is going to be easier to manipulate than a United America. From what I hear, the Liberals are far more divided on various issues than the Republicans, which means that deliberately highlighting certain issues with the intent of spreading disunity inherently favours the Right. Sometimes it takes only a tiny push for an issue that has been simmering in the background to reach critical mass and explode onto the political landscape. I'm guessing that the Russian troll-farms are very careful about which issues to give prominence to so as to maximize their disruptive potential. You're totally right about this not being anything new, but with the pervasiveness of modern social-media networks, this technique has become far more effective, and far more worrisome. I would be amazed if the US didn't have their own government organizations dedicated to countering this exact thing (a branch of USCYBERCOM or something, I suppose).
Quote from: gogators! on October 16, 2017, 07:20:17 amAnd people in this forum are caliming they and trumped up aren't racist. And yet:QuoteWhen the people sent it to me, it was funny," Arnold said, explaining that hundreds of people have seen the footage that was sent around years ago as a Christmas video."He wasn't going to be president of the United States. It was him sitting in that chair using the N-word, using the C-word, calling his son [intellectually disabled]," Arnold said.Arnold then went on to recount the Sunday before the election, allegedly being called by good friend Arnold Schwarzenegger's CAA agent and Hillary Clinton, asking for him to release the tapes.But at that point, Arnold asserted that the people originally responsible for the distribution of the footage, two editors and an associate producer, were "scared to death.""They were scared of his people. They're scared they'll never work again," said Arnold. "There's a $5-million confidentiality agreement.And trumped up and his campaign picked up and furthered the messages from the russki ads:Quote Both the “Secured Borders” and “Beyond Patriotic” pages revealed by the Daily Beast were steeped in anti-Clinton rhetoric, with the latter organizing on-the-ground rallies that featured Americans chanting to “lock her up!” In one example from “Secured Borders,” the authors — referring to Clinton as “Killary” — piggy-backed on the outrage over Clinton’s comments that certain Trump supporters are “deplorables.” As the post wrote, “If Killary thinks that being American, loving your country and be concerned about ours and our children’s future is deplorable, then hell yeah count me in in that basket! [sic]”It's not just the amount of money spent:QuoteRussia used multiple fake Facebook groups that were directly racial or focused on wedge issues such as “Blactivist”, “United Muslims for America”, “Heart of Texas”, ”Defend the 2nd”, ”LGBT United” and “Secured Borders” to fan the flames of division in America to benefit Trump. These six groups alone received 340 Million views combined while Facebook has admitted that there were over 400 of these types of accounts.What say ye, Comrade sr/dm?As I said, just because that stuff was there, doesn't mean that it had any significant influence. For starters, I'm guessing "LGBT United" and "Defend the 2nd" pretty much canceled each other out, assuming they even had an effect.Also, these aren't exactly unheard of positions or statements. They all existed well before Russia and the divisions were already there.It's the equivalent of a Russian McDonald's ad looking exactly like every other McDonald's ad that's out there in a sea of McDonald's ads. This is how the internet looked before you or I had ever heard of Russians. This has been building since Rush Limbaugh in the 90s. Believing its all because of the Russians is 9-11 conspiracy theory level thinking.
Nope, nope and nope.Any post that starts with "i'm guessing" is probably going to be BS. No probably here.Russian McDonald's commercial that's just like US ones: https://vimeo.com/50607995Not even close.You've now posted how umpteen times the russkis had NO influence on the election. So how about some proof beyond your silly analogies.
I mean, if anything fans the flames of social divide across the world, it's our own pop culture exports and our pressures on various countries around the world to adopt "our" values. We're talking billions of dollars worth of movies, TV, and music. You want influence from another country?
How about our various celebrities/politicians who pick up twitter followers from around the world and then tweet something about Brexit or various wars or social causes across the globe. That's just as much "foreign interference on social media" and with far greater impact than anything Russia has ever done. And those can certainly "fan the flames." And if it's okay for our citizens/politicians to do that, why is it wrong for other countries? I mean, Pope Francis and Obama have massive global followings and they can influence millions around the world when it comes to political and social issues.
If indeed there were issues that were simmering and then got "pushed" by Russia, what were those issues? Every issue I can think of that was "simmering" was pushed by our own internal divisions and disagreements, and any amplification got far more energy from ourselves than Russia. We saw this with Limbaugh and the rise of FOXNews. Then we saw it from the left during the Bush years with stuff like The Daily Show and Colbert. We saw it from endless Hollywood and MSM 'lecturing'. Then during Obama we saw it from the Tea Party and Birthers and Alex Jones followed up by SJWS, trigger warnings, mansplaining, and 'Ban Bossy'. Not to mention we still have lingering resentments from the Vietnam War. I understand the concern and it's certainly something to monitor, but I simply disagree that it's effects have been significant beyond the outrage/scapegoating. As with any situation where people fight amongst themselves, it's far more likely that the people themselves are the cause, not any outside agency, especially when the outside agent's interference is as limited as Russia's was (it's not like they're funneling weapons and such).
As for the possibility that Trump is a Russian agent, while it certainly is plausible that he is sympathetic and positively disposed due to a history of deals, outright collusion seems rather implausible because he'd be risking getting hanged. At some point he would have bowed out.
Apparently Hillary Clinton, in addition to "accepting responsibility" but blaming Russia, Comey, racism, sexism, Obama, Bernie Sanders, the media and The New York Times , Jill Stein, women, Netflix, Facebook, Twitter, Assange, Campaign Financing (despite having outspent Trump 2:1), and The DNC, is apparently now adding Nigel Farage to the list.And people said Trump would have a hard time accepting the results and lacked temperament!This from a candidate who ignored all warnings from Dems on the ground in the Midwest, her own 2-term husband-former President, rally sizes, lack of book sales, trusted in Hollywood and celebrities, and refused to meet her supporters on election night and concede.Obama would have wiped the floor with Trump. Biden would have won in a walk. Sanders would probably have won a narrow race. This result is on her and her campaign.
Quote from: gogators! on October 16, 2017, 01:34:25 pmNope, nope and nope.Any post that starts with "i'm guessing" is probably going to be BS. No probably here.Russian McDonald's commercial that's just like US ones: https://vimeo.com/50607995Not even close.You've now posted how umpteen times the russkis had NO influence on the election. So how about some proof beyond your silly analogies.How's this for proof-Dem ad: "Russia tricked you. Don't let them get away with it again. Take back this country from the Russians. Hillary lost because of Russian interference and we need you to be with Her. Vote Democratic in 2018". Republican ad: "All the Democrats have done for the last 2 years is say you were tricked by the Russians and voted for Trump because of this ad (show graphic of facebook ad). Really? Make America Great Again in 2018."Everyone in America (including much of the left and MSM that indulges in the Russia thing for ratings, would just look at the Democrats and be like "Are you insane?"Now compare that with say a Dem ad that had something like this-"We know why you voted the way you did in 2018. It wasn't Russia, it wasn't Comey, it wasn't racism. It's because you're hurting and you're angry. It's because you're working two jobs and are still in debt. It's because you once had a respectable job that let you take the family on vacation and now you're serving fries behind a counter to the friends of your children. It's because politicians in DC seem to be more interested in cozying up to Wall St. and outsourcing your jobs than caring about the millions of Americans all over the U.S. who were once part of our great middle class. It's because some of us have focused more on what skin color or gender you are than the fact that we're all Americans and we're all in this together. We've heard you and it is our mission to fight for you."That's what Bill Clinton would have ran on. That's what Biden would have ran on. That's what Sanders was running on. And they'd have won. Guess what? That's what Trump ran on. But go and run with Russia. Let's have each side go with what they believe to be true. I think the results that would follow on such a campaign would be reflective of the truth- No one in America voted the way they did because of some Russian facebook ad. I would LOVE, LOVE for the Democratic Party to make Russian "interference" the central issue in the 2018 campaign. After all, it apparently decided an election, not the economy, wars, jobs, trade, taxes, some shitty Obamacare Bronze plan that you have to buy or eat a tax penalty, SJW nonsense, and sanctuary cities. Nope, go with Russian interference.