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  • gogators!
  • The Legend

    • 3652

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Interesting perspective on the abortion debate
« on: May 31, 2019, 03:36:36 am »
Quote
The point is not whether I’m “grateful” my birth mother didn’t abort me; it is that she deserved to make her own choice. My existence was not for me to decide, nor was I entitled to be here. Nevertheless, I am here. And I have a voice. It is my choice now what to do with it.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/adopted-and-pro-choice_n_5ced7bfde4b0356205a0a5c4?ncid=engmodushpmg00000003&fbclid=IwAR2124_D-3GkG2pM0g82ckPTZfp8q6qJfD5WKnjpnB-KLjeHf7B233t5RJY&guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZmFjZWJvb2suY29tLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAL7sqFYQtuZZy4_mXsLtHlu1DQD_qJVtfzVkGsFX1bFQKCvpHKGlapzYw6ue6hmuzXdZT9LKVXGyKSylBsf9NIjcZpIMHR3t82sHpYoCZz-8nI8v3UvRyjkMsKD0rbJGE4BvbeHrtT_d-1ekBgqn_1tDdWMAA8dZxugEdSbW3ZIh


Re: Interesting perspective on the abortion debate
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2019, 08:07:09 am »
Abortion has many facets as a legal issue AND as a moral issue AND as a practical issue.

I might agree with her view on this as a legal issue. Ultimately legal issues come down to issues of power and that of choice- The state or the individual. I think you know whom I would rather see having that power, even if they err.

For starters most conservatives are under the perception that people are having abortions at 28 weeks or something. Rubbish. Most abortions happen in the first 6 weeks. Most later ones happen due to some sort of extreme medical issue. How dumb do you have to be to believe that there's millions of women having babies 6-7 months in and all of a sudden going "You know what? I'm suddenly not feeling these months of pain and discomfort. Time to get rid of this and head off to Maui" So the overwhelming majority of abortions occur at a time that something like 80-90% of Americans agree with, and those that don't, happen for reasons that 80-90% of Americans agree with.

That's before we get to the issue of a government being able to control pregnancy, like in China. Yeah, no thank you. Better 1 million women make a bad choice than 1 powerful state making a bad choice for 10s of millions of women.

Now as a moral issue?

Quote
My existence was not for me to decide, nor was I entitled to be here.
You have every right to your existence as a human being and no one has the right to take that existence from you. People say "My body, my choice." I agree. My body, my choice. I am the one who should be able to decide whether my life has value. Whether I have something to offer society and the world. No one should be able to deny me that choice simply because I am inconvenient. And why do so many people view raising children as a burden, and not an opportunity?

Now if I threaten their life and health? Fire away. That is basic self-defense.

As an adoptee, I know many who suffer from low self-esteem and mental issues, and this statement is revealing. If you have such a low opinion of yourself that you don't think your life has been something precious, that it deserves to happen, and that you have value, then I don't know what to say. Life is wonderful and worth fighting for. The whole misanthropic-nihilist "humans suck and there's too many of us", "who cares I would have just never existed..." mindset that many, particularly those who are young, and tending to lean left, is really a cause for concern. You don't have to be a narcissist pave the Earther, but for goodness sakes, have some positive view of yourself and your kind, even though you may think people are often generally bad, it's not all negative.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 09:03:44 am by Mr.DeMartino »


  • zola
  • The Legend

    • 2698

    • September 30, 2012, 06:56:11 am
    • Korea
Re: Interesting perspective on the abortion debate
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2019, 08:39:21 am »
For starters most conservatives are under the perception that people are having abortions at 28 weeks or something. Rubbish. Most abortions happen in the first 6 weeks. Most later ones happen due to some sort of extreme medical issue. How dumb do you have to be to believe that there's millions of women having babies 6-7 months in and all of a sudden going "You know what? I'm suddenly not feeling these months of pain and discomfort. Time to get rid of this and head off to Maui" So the overwhelming majority of abortions occur at a time that something like 80-90% of Americans agree with, and those that don't happen for reasons that 80-90% of Americans agree with.

Both extreme sides on this issue are awful. The other side use the "what about rape?" or "What about incest?" arguments as though rape and incest babies are making up anything more than a tiny minuscule amount of the total number of abortions. Then, as you say, conservatives act as though fully formed babies are being aborted in almost every case.

It's such an overly emotional issue. I wish it could just be left out of general political discourse, as it is in many countries.
Kpip! - Martin 2018


Re: Interesting perspective on the abortion debate
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2019, 09:13:26 am »
For starters most conservatives are under the perception that people are having abortions at 28 weeks or something. Rubbish. Most abortions happen in the first 6 weeks. Most later ones happen due to some sort of extreme medical issue. How dumb do you have to be to believe that there's millions of women having babies 6-7 months in and all of a sudden going "You know what? I'm suddenly not feeling these months of pain and discomfort. Time to get rid of this and head off to Maui" So the overwhelming majority of abortions occur at a time that something like 80-90% of Americans agree with, and those that don't happen for reasons that 80-90% of Americans agree with.

Both extreme sides on this issue are awful. The other side use the "what about rape?" or "What about incest?" arguments as though rape and incest babies are making up anything more than a tiny minuscule amount of the total number of abortions. Then, as you say, conservatives act as though fully formed babies are being aborted in almost every case.

It's such an overly emotional issue. I wish it could just be left out of general political discourse, as it is in many countries.

The crazy thing is how much both sides get trggered if you point this out. One side imagines that every person getting an abortion was raped and the fetus has massive head and heartbirth defects but this is at 1 week while its just a clump of cells. If you question this, you're branded a caveman who hates women and a religious zealot who wants to return to the days of Cotton Mather. The other side believes there's hordes of women getting pregnant every 9 months, waiting until the baby is past the cervix and suddenly deciding "Nah, f this", then getting pregnant 48 hours later. If you deny this then you support mass infanticide and dismemberment like some sort of fetal Ted Bundy.