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  • Ley_Druid
  • The Legend

    • 2465

    • February 17, 2011, 08:36:33 am
    • Shinan-Gun, Jeollanam-Do, South Korea
Re: Bin Laden is dead.
« Reply #120 on: May 03, 2011, 09:38:19 am »
I like the US but I hate all this stupid inane flag waving that some folk seem to love so much. And what is the USA number 1 at exactly?

War and free market economics.

War? OK you got that one. Free market economics? - Somalia is much better

Sure, war is what America is great at. Not to mention research and development! No other country tops the US on that. Also, the US has more christians than any other nation. I can't imagine that being something to be proud about, but yeah, number one on that.

And America has the monopoly on slip n' slides!!! And generally, it is still the country that has the highest percentage of foreigners wanting to visit/live in. That is power right there.

Oh yeah, and the economy is still the top, along with banks, and other forms of financial trickery that does not include slavery.

Also, the US has the best medical technology and the biggest numbers on the average doctor bill!

And they make the BEST CHEAP CHEESE!!! Shazzam!~

So yeah, there are plenty of number ones for the US. As for free market, yeah, Somolia is way better. The US is about as free as Charles Manson. Of course, it still has the strongest economy, but in no means is it a true free market.


  • jknott01
  • Waygookin

    • 20

    • March 21, 2011, 01:00:45 pm
    • Seoul, South Korea
Re: Bin Laden is dead.
« Reply #121 on: May 03, 2011, 09:43:54 am »
wasnt there some sort of toung in cheek documentary from a while ago all about how we couldnt find osama bin ladin?


  • JayRiley
  • Explorer

    • 6

    • March 31, 2011, 01:21:23 pm
    • Seocheon
Re: Bin Laden is dead.
« Reply #122 on: May 03, 2011, 09:44:50 am »
Good job Navy SEALS!


  • Insouciant
  • Waygookin

    • 13

    • March 25, 2011, 10:47:52 am
    • South Korea
Re: Bin Laden is dead.
« Reply #123 on: May 03, 2011, 09:45:43 am »
Quote
In reply to JamaicanTeacher rant...

Blind loyalty to any country is a shallow form of homicide. The only reason I'm an American is due to a series of chance events that resulted in my birth at a set of coordinates that happen to fall in the USA. Why would these circumstances encourage me (or anyone from any country) to be proud or pledge my allegiance to a group of people on a plot of land? I support humans and act on what makes the good ones happier and healthier. Nationalism is the death of intelligence.

I agree with that sentiment. I'm British but I'm not proud to be British. Nor am I ashamed. I'm indifferent. My country has done some terrible things - empire, slavery, overthrowing countries, inventing the concentration camp, etc - and a few good things - standing up to the nazis, giving billions in foreign aid every year, ermmm hard to think of more. However, I did not do these things. I did not stand up to the Nazis, so I feel no national pride in that. I did not enslave anyone, so I feel no shame. Nationalism is simply taking pride in the achievements of others whilst ignoring (or getting your knickers in a twist about) any criticism.

Bin Laden is dead. In many ways he was a product of American foreign policy. Considered an ally and a freedom fighter (called such by Regan) when he was fighting against the Russians in Afghanistan with the mudjuhadin, he became an evil terrorist when he turned his weapons upon the hands that gave them. He wanted all foreign invading forces out of Islamic countries and the introduction of Sharia law. It is impossible for any group to fight head to head against the USA and its allies in the field so he took to guerilla tactics and terrorism. I think any group fighting against a vastly superior force would do the same, particularly if they believed (falsely or otherwise) that their cause was noble. If in some terrible future, the USA has collapsed and is invaded by a vastly superior foreign force, I get the feeling that there are many people in the States who would use any means necessary to defend their country and way of life - even using tactics decried as terrorism by their enemies.

I guess what I'm trying to say in this ramble is that notions of country bind us apart, not together. What is needed is a little more empathy from both sides. Americans (and their British, Australian, French etc allies) need to realise that they may well commit the same desperate acts if their situations were reversed, if a foreign invasion force was driving tanks down the streets of their towns, conducting midnight raids and abducting their citizens (cousins, brothers, daughters), deporting their citizens to other countries for torture in illegal prisons, raping them in prison and posing with their corpses. On the other hand, terrorist groups need to realise that the murder of innocent civilians will not cause the USA to stop its actions to secure oil in the Middle East and will only strengthen its resolve - a resolve demonstrated by the killing of the most wanted man in the world after a decade of searching.

BBC obituary for bin Laden. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-10741005

This.

I'nm British too and I know what you mean. I try not to let that fact of my being born on one specific part of the earth's crust, rather than any other part of it, change my views of other people and myself.

It's good that he's dead. It's a shame he wasn't put on trial. Meh.


Re: Bin Laden is dead.
« Reply #124 on: May 03, 2011, 09:52:59 am »
Kinda stupid, kinda funny.

C is for cookie, that's good enough for me.


Re: Bin Laden is dead.
« Reply #125 on: May 03, 2011, 09:56:58 am »
Quote
Kinda stupid, kinda funny.

That made me laugh, but it is kind of stupid lol. I never understood the big deal about the birth certificate. I always saw it as another way to throw bricks instead of building things with them.


  • 7Suarez7
  • Adventurer

    • 53

    • November 01, 2010, 12:45:06 pm
    • korea
Re: Bin Laden is dead.
« Reply #126 on: May 03, 2011, 10:03:47 am »
Many of my friends here in Korea are from America and they're some of the kindest, funniest people i've ever met and i've been to America twice and had a great time and met some even greater people but when you read comments like the following:


Seriously.  It's not like the nation would exist if it wasnt for us and NATO.  No offense Koreans, just saying.

Bin Laden had to go man. He had to shed blood for this. USA! USA! USA! USA!

Let us enjoy it and stop trying to dismantle a nation's source of celebration.

Don't worry America. England still has royal weddings after all these years and begged for our help during WWII..Hahahahahahah ..

I love how people always have something negative about anything America does. Germany is marching into France, help us. We come and we were not fast enough. Germany marched into France again and is choking England, help us. We come and we were not fast enough. We get involved in Korea, so people get mad we were involved or we did not do enough to stop communists. Planes get hijacked and thousands die. We act and regardless we are blamed for something

I'm tired of countries that are jealous of our strength, wealth, influence, and power bashing us.  Go USA.

One thing I've learned from this site is that many non-Americans will find any reason to bash the USA.  Let them have it...remember who's on top!  I just think it's funny how they get their panties in a bunch if you say anything negative about their little country.

I wonder where Canada and many other western countries would be without the States and what it would be like if the USA didn't do any of the dirty work that needs to get done.  It must be so nice to talk about how great a country you have when you can just ride the coat tails of the USA
.


It kinda helps me see where some of this anti-US sentiment comes from. I've always admired countries like the US, Canada etc... for their strong patriotism but watching the reactions of SOME Americans to Bin laden's death is far beyond patriotism in my opinion. It reminds me of when the US broke into Baghdad centre and pulled down the statue of Saddam and draped an American flag over his head thus crossing the line between liberation and occupation, despite the flag being replaced shortly after with the Iraqi flag that scene was broadcast to the entire Arab nation.

9/11 was a horrific event...it's an event that you always remember where you were when you first heard what was happening on that tragic day...the pure violence and destruction was over-whelming but so was the violence in killing Gaddafis grandchildren or the destruction caused by a US predator drone to a civilian Afghanistan wedding.

Martin Luther King said 'Hate begets hate, violence begets violence'

Now Bin Laden is dead he has subsequently become a 'martyr' and does anyone think that scenes of Americans rejoicing and celebrating his death is going to bring about peace? I fear it will have only the opposite effect, I hope i am wrong on that though.

So whilst I believe the world is better off without Bin Laden I think the OTT celebratiions witnessed from some Americans is just adding more fuel to the fire unfortunately.


Re: Bin Laden is dead.
« Reply #127 on: May 03, 2011, 10:08:51 am »
I would have liked to see them catch him alive, so that he could have stood trial...

imagine some of the stuff that would have came out  ::)


  • matieu
  • Veteran

    • 83

    • November 01, 2010, 01:21:24 pm
    • Geoje Do
Re: Bin Laden is dead.
« Reply #128 on: May 03, 2011, 10:10:30 am »
Just to give my 2 cents worth. I am opposed to the use of the mass murder of civilians to gain political/ideological aims. I am as opposed to Islamic extremism as much as I am opposed to Western imperialism as both use the slaughetr of civilians to try and implement their world view on the other. It's good that a terrorist who advocated the murder of thousands of civilians has seen justice, but then so should the far greater and more prolific terrorists who murdered hundreds of thousands (George Bush, Tony Blair, Donald Rumsfeld) to name but a few, in order to achieve their political, economic and ideological aims. The problem with most of us in the West is that our media and governments have made this issue into an "us" against "them" mentality and convinced us all that we are the good guys (freedom fighters) and that "they" are the bad guys. When you look at the definition of terrorism, the West has been commiting far greater terror atrocities in trhe Middle East. I don't have a problem with Americans celebrating the death of Bin Laden as he was a terrorist who killed thousands an act that surely nobody can condone. However I also can't for one minute condone the response of our own governments and military. The difference is that if a load of Afghanis were celebrating the death of a foreign soldier our media would portray it as outrageous whereas celebrating the death of one of their terrorists is perfectly fine. I guess what I'm saying is that both parties are as bad as the other, using the murder of innocent civilians to further their aims. This will never be solved through military means and until both parties can stop using mass killings to prove themselves right and the other side wrong we aren't going to get anywhere, it'll just get worse.


  • Lissa
  • Waygookin

    • 13

    • February 28, 2011, 01:01:40 pm
    • Gumi, South Korea
Re: Bin Laden is dead.
« Reply #129 on: May 03, 2011, 10:14:11 am »
The War On Errorism


  • flips
  • Veteran

    • 137

    • August 07, 2010, 09:28:04 am
Re: Bin Laden is dead.
« Reply #130 on: May 03, 2011, 10:14:25 am »
Blind loyalty to any country is a shallow form of homicide. The only reason I'm an American is due to a series of chance events that resulted in my birth at a set of coordinates that happen to fall in the USA. Why would these circumstances encourage me (or anyone from any country) to be proud or pledge my allegiance to a group of people on a plot of land? I support humans and act on what makes the good ones happier and healthier. Nationalism is the death of intelligence.

Quote
I guess what I'm trying to say in this ramble is that notions of country bind us apart, not together.

generally, i am of a similar mind, and feel that nationalism and other forms of group think are signs of intellectual backwardness. but i do empathize with the rant a little. as an american living in south korea, there have been a few times when other westerners have been denigrating american policy to me (sometimes in similar ways that i might to a fellow american back in the states) when i have felt personally maligned and have taken offense. in retrospect, i have always felt ridiculous for my reactions as they ran counter to my deep-seated beliefs. however, these are social situations, with a thin veneer of intellectualism that quickly washes away, wherein various sociological and psychological factors, like oneupmanship and not wanting your identity sh*t on, come into play.


  • jpaek
  • Adventurer

    • 71

    • September 03, 2010, 08:37:49 am
    • Seoul
Re: Bin Laden is dead.
« Reply #131 on: May 03, 2011, 10:15:56 am »
In reply to JamaicanTeacher rant...

Blind loyalty to any country is a shallow form of homicide. The only reason I'm an American is due to a series of chance events that resulted in my birth at a set of coordinates that happen to fall in the USA. Why would these circumstances encourage me (or anyone from any country) to be proud or pledge my allegiance to a group of people on a plot of land? I support humans and act on what makes the good ones happier and healthier. Nationalism is the death of intelligence.

Agreed. Nationalism is the death of civility and the mother of violence and hatred. On its extreme, it manufactures illusions of fundamental differences between us and them, and demonizes others who are, in reality, the same as us.

I concede though, it creates a profound sense of belonging. It's all good on the inside. But by far, it does more harm than good.

I am not my country. I am not my countries actions. I simply am what everyone else is in this world: Human.


  • flasyb
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1901

    • November 30, 2010, 12:10:03 pm
    • South Korea
Re: Bin Laden is dead.
« Reply #132 on: May 03, 2011, 10:19:43 am »
Quote
The problem with most of us in the West is that our media and governments have made this issue into an "us" against "them" mentality and convinced us all that we are the good guys (freedom fighters) and that "they" are the bad guys.

That's why I liked this Onion article so much. It switches the positions of the USA and Al Queda and highlights the completely different manner in which the media reports the actions of each.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/alqaeda-latest-missile-attack-bears-hallmarks-of-u,20198/
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

We are not "guests" in Korea. Korea didn't invite us over for Pimms in the garden. We are paid employees.


  • adouche
  • Newgookin

    • 1

    • May 03, 2011, 10:15:24 am
    • KOREA
Re: Bin Laden is dead.
« Reply #133 on: May 03, 2011, 10:26:55 am »
*Warning - anti-American rant.......*
 
Ok Bin Laden is dead, good job America. I'm British and I was cheering. Justice has been served. But America’s a great country?
 
I would say only militarily, and even then - when was the last time you actually won a war outright since the end of World War II?

You haven’t.

It's one hell of a country yes, but considering you're the richest country in the world you've got some serious issues to sort out in your own country before you start interfering in other country's business and proclaiming yourself as the greatest country in the world, a ‘shining example of freedom and democracy’, and the ‘Land of The Free’.
 
A terrible health care system, (appalling as well as immoral, unequal, and unfair), outrageous gun crime figures - how can anybody defend 'The right to bear arms' when 11,000 people a year die (6 year olds have taken guns into school and shot classmates in the last month - fortunately they survived – defies belief!), huge problems with crime, and a seriously messed up political system amongst many other things. I mean how can Donald Trump or Sarah Palin even be considered as serious candidates for the White House?! And ‘Birtherism’?! Don’t even get me started on that.
 
Don’t get me wrong, Britain is far from perfect. But our internal issues are nothing like as messed up or complicated as yours. In comparison, we are a lot more equal and free in Britain (and all other developed nations) than you are in America.

I came to Korea with a neutral opinion and open-mindedness towards most things. But since arriving, I’ve got to know Americans and listened to what they have to say. Most of them aren’t bad people –  in fact the majority are nice people. But they seem to have a warped outlook on life and issues that we just cannot logically comprehend as non-Americans. We regularly poke fun at their stupidity and relative ignorance. I know we shouldn’t – but they kind of bring it on themselves.

As a non-American it grates on me when I hear boasts of how great America is, and how the American way is always the best way… when most of the time it isn’t. It happens all the time.
 
I’m expecting a backlash to this, understandably so. I’d be pretty p*ssed if someone spoke about my country like that. I had to get it off my chest... I also have American friends that I really like and have great respect for. They would agree with most of what I have just said.

Well done America. You finally got Bin Laden. It only took 10 years, thousands of lives and billions of dollars. But some form of justice has been done.  I’m not going to complain about that at least


Re: Bin Laden is dead.
« Reply #134 on: May 03, 2011, 10:56:10 am »
OK normally I don’t post my opinion on a website such as this, because honestly it’s my opinion and I shouldn’t care what others think.  With that said, I believe that others are entitled to their own opinions, but I as several have mentioned before, most of these comments are made without a filter.  Before you go on expressing your opinion, I hope that you have some sort of sound background supporting your thoughts…so… here’s my opinion with facts that I have supporting my thoughts.  And I don’t care if you like it or not because *fact* I’ll probably never meet any of you.  It’s just something I really need to get off my chest.

For starters (who ever brought up the U.S. involvement in Korea… which is slightly off from the original title of this thread, but…) if you don’t recall, South Korea recently just extended the U.S. military control over the South Korean military.

“The Strategic Alliance 2015 agreement ensures nearly 30,000 American troops will remain in South Korea until 2015. According to the 1953 armistice that established a cease-fire to the Korean War, the U.S. military would maintain operational control of combined defenses until 2012. But South Korean President Lee Myung-bak asked to extend the transition to 2015 as a result of the Cheonan attack. President Barack Obama agreed.”
http://www.army.mil/-news/2010/09/16/45317-us-presence-necessary-for-korean-security-officials-say/

Plain and simple, South Korea is currently dependent on the U.S. for their armed forces, and aren’t ashamed to admit it, so neither should any of you be.

The celebrations- just as people have their own opinions, people are entitled to expressing themselves differently.  It’s the beauty of the human race.  Let diversity prevail. 

Justice- Not only is this justice for the thousands that perished in the Bin Laden driven act of terrorism on 9/11 (which he has openly admitted to… need a provide facts here??  Not only has someone else already done this for me, but I think his videos shown across the U.S. are evidence enough), but it is justice for the soldiers who willingly gave their lives for our freedom.  No, I’m not saying that most of them ran out in the middle of an open fire attack, but they willingly signed up for our military.  Just in case you don’t know- there’s no draft going on.  These valiant men and women made a choice with known consequences.

Take the most commonly referred to victim- Pat Tillman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Tillman  I know its Wikipedia… but lets be honest, we all love it).  He made a choice.  And we should all be proud of the choice he made, as it allows us to make our own choices.  I don’t choose to be a soldier because I don’t believe I would make a good soldier (for reasons that needn’t be mention).
And here’s a fact that I bet most of you wouldn’t believe.  From the Vietnam War, 91% of Vietnam Veterans are glad they served, with 74% Veterans saying they would serve again, despite knowing the outcome of the war (http://www.uswings.com/vietnamfacts.asp).  I bet if you polled our soldiers currently serving, you would get a similar if not greater percentage.  Our soldiers have American pride.  So here’s to our men and women who have heroically given their lives over the past 10 years and especially to those victims of 9/11 who unfortunately had no choice.  Justice IS served, and hopefully will continue to be.

For our military and our country, this is a big psychological feat.  It is a time for us to remember, to reminisce.  It never hurts a nation to become more prideful, whether it be through a music group, the World Cup, or defeating a leading terrorist.  Patriotism is what makes a nation thrive.  I am an American and I am proud to be an American.  I am proud of our soldiers and support them for giving me a choice. 
I do realize, however, that this act may backfire on us, but at least for a few minutes, we, as a nation, can believe that justice has been served!!!

Not to call anyone out specifically, but I thought I’d shed light on a fact that was incorrectly posted on here.  Kaiser, you mentioned that of the things that were completed in under 10 years that none of them were hiding under rocks… Well with the mention of WWII ended in 6 years, Hitler, the reason for WWII, was indeed hiding in an underground building in a playground of a neighborhood in the middle of Berlin.  Although he did make public appearances, near the end of the war, he was in hiding for the same reason that Bin Laden was hiding- killing an atrocious amount of innocent people.  Not to mention that his gas chambers were underground and they attempted to destroy the evidence before the U.S. invaded (particularly in Auschwitz-Birkenau)… but that’s a whole different topic.  I just thought I’d correct a false statement here.

Also, Damien… I love your pride.  I couldn’t agree with you more.  I’m proud that the U.S. never gave up… tenacity.  Although some may say that 10 years is too long, it’s because to most of us, this is nearly a 1/3 of our lives.  But in reality, 10 years really isn’t that long.  It’s not like our military had free reign to go searching all through Afghanistan and Pakistan.  Bullets, bombs and rockets can be launched at any minute.  And in reality, Obama mentioned that they got tipped off in August, so I’d say it’s more like catching him in 8 months- with bullets and bombs and rockets.

Anyway, I know war is not the answer, but we all know we didn’t start this.  If we didn’t retaliate, who’s the say that more attacks wouldn’t have been made and more innocent lives wouldn’t have perished.

These are just my thoughts based on facts that I’ve dug up throughout the years… and just in case you didn’t get it… I’M PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN!

(this is really ironic that this post is coming after someone just bashed 'The Land of the Free'... at least I'm classy enough to not bash other countries)...


  • jjminor
  • Waygookin

    • 15

    • March 14, 2011, 01:06:08 pm
    • Seoul, Korea
Re: Bin Laden is dead.
« Reply #135 on: May 03, 2011, 10:57:53 am »
Wow....
Firstly, I have to admit that I read only a few of the last posts before I got sick of reading the posted comments.
Secondly, I am an American (soon to be an American with a Korean "Green Card" :) ).
America is nowhere near perfect, just like England, France, Sweeden, Italy, Japan, China, New Zealand, South Africa, the Congo... you get the jist.

The first coment I read on the page was:
Quote
Not all Americans, but most of them - are pretty deluded.

And stupid.

Again, wow....
Now, I know I only read a few of the posts, but still. We are teachers, right?? Or, at least trying to be I hope. Why do we let our emotions get so out of control as to say things like this (or in the previous posts, not trying to pick on Adouche as this is not a single comment thing)?
Sure, no one here can see your face. I get it. But still....

So, you may dislike (hate is a strong word) Americans, or most Americans. Okay, there are many reasons you may have that opinion. You may dislike/disagree with the way our government treats our people, or can be corrupt, or the way that it takes forever for us to change (which is one reason I dislike my own country, especially dealing with care for our own citizens). You may dislike/hate our foreign policies, or the fact that we call football soccer. But still.... Most Americans are stupid? Stupid how? (Do you mean ignorant?) Explain, please. I imagine it would be much like explaining how people who don't know how to milk cows have no common sense (even there is no such thing as a common, common sense :) ).

I should stop here. I know it's already too long. I just don't really agree with blanket statements about a large body of people, especially if it is derogatory in nature.

Hope everyone is having a nice day, and that everyone has a nice Children's Day off! :)