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All about South Korea => Korea Newsroom => Topic started by: icndream on August 26, 2014, 07:36:08 pm

Title: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: icndream on August 26, 2014, 07:36:08 pm
Quote
Native English speakers are facing a tough competition in the Korean job market as the government continues to slash the number of foreign teachers at public schools.

The number of native teachers at Korean public schools dropped to 6,785 as of April this year, down from 9,320 in 2011, according to figures that The Korea Observer exclusively obtained from the Ministry of Education.

(http://www.koreaobserver.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Native-English-Teachers.jpg)
http://www.koreaobserver.com/korea-cuts-2500-native-english-teachers-at-public-schools-23271/
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: CanineKimchi on August 26, 2014, 08:09:59 pm
the trend continues
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: cereal killer on August 26, 2014, 08:16:02 pm
Cool. It means there will be more hagwon jobs and, perhaps, more money to be made.
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: basic69isokay on August 26, 2014, 08:52:58 pm
But will those Korean teachers actually teach in English?
In my experience,  almost never.
I've seriously never seen it.
So, basically, Incheon saves 5milllion a year on the salary, but gets a much worse educator.
If Koreans start teaching English in English, for real.....then I'll buy this Koreans are just as good line.
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: Aqvm on August 26, 2014, 09:04:47 pm
Quote
...foreigners now have to compete with Korean teachers who are not only fluent in English but also willing to work harder for less money.
Oh really?
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: ciannagh on August 26, 2014, 09:20:40 pm
Quote
...foreigners now have to compete with Korean teachers who are not only fluent in English but also willing to work harder for less money.
Oh really?

Yeah, the thing that really gets me about this is that they seem to equate being fluent in English to having the ability to properly teach it. Every Korean teacher that I've met teaches English entirely in Korean with a few English words thrown in. They then wonder why all of the money invested in English education is doing absolutely nothing.

People try to use the argument that it's because Korean and English are so different, but I call bulls*** on that - I've met so many from China and the Middle East who speak English at a fantastic level. It's not how similar the languages are as it is the quality of instruction.
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: MJHanson on August 26, 2014, 11:11:58 pm
The title of the post makes it sound like 2,500 PS NETs have recently been cut.  I was shocked upon reading it. 

The post should be titled Korea has cut 2,500 public school NETs since 2011
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: qi on August 27, 2014, 12:32:22 am
But will those Korean teachers actually teach in English?
In my experience,  almost never.
I've seriously never seen it.
So, basically, Incheon saves 5milllion a year on the salary, but gets a much worse educator.
If Koreans start teaching English in English, for real.....then I'll buy this Koreans are just as good line.

Western people in general are cash strapped. By far, most of ROK's exports now go to China. China is now Korea's Daddy and they'll fall into line. There are lots more SEPIK - Sino Epik teachers in Korea now and increasing.

The ESL bandwagon is becoming a thing of the past.
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: Mr C on August 27, 2014, 12:41:45 am
Quote
...foreigners now have to compete with Korean teachers who are not only fluent in English but also willing to work harder for less money.
Oh really?

Yeah, the thing that really gets me about this is that they seem to equate being fluent in English to having the ability to properly teach it.
Yes.  That's more or less why you have a job in this country.  But ... you disagree?
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: EL34 on August 27, 2014, 03:04:18 am
But will those Korean teachers actually teach in English?
In my experience,  almost never.
I've seriously never seen it.
So, basically, Incheon saves 5milllion a year on the salary, but gets a much worse educator.
If Koreans start teaching English in English, for real.....then I'll buy this Koreans are just as good line.

Western people in general are cash strapped. By far, most of ROK's exports now go to China. China is now Korea's Daddy and they'll fall into line. There are lots more SEPIK - Sino Epik teachers in Korea now and increasing.

The ESL bandwagon is becoming a thing of the past.

Are they? People I know in my hometown in Canada sure drive nice cars.

I don't know. Maybe you're younger than me, so your peers probably aren't earning as much as mine yet.
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: kingkeiser on August 27, 2014, 04:06:56 am
The writing has been on the wall for sometime to come. Let this be another shining example as to why you must transition away from the f*ckery that is ESL in Korea.
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on August 27, 2014, 06:10:44 am
I think ESL is fast losing its shine in Korea. Unfortunately my age counts against me as it does now in Korea too or I would be looking at other countries.

A friend of mine who taught here for about 4 years and was earning around 2.3 mil has now taken a job in Saudi. Admittedly the quality of life is not the best there but the benefits for someone who wants to make some money quickly, are.

He is not a licenced teacher, just a degree. He earns 3,000 dollars a month, no taxes, no bill for utilities, free medical, free apartment, free car, free gas etc. That 3 thou he puts in his pocket each month. He gets roughly 6 weeks vacation a year too.

Currently he is teaching at a naval base, 10 students, total teaching time is 1 hour and 35 minutes a day. He is now bitching that from next month it will be increased to 3 hours 30 minutes. No deskwarming, no English Camps, his supervisor give him free reign, he can teach whatever he likes.

From next month they have offered him an extra job of an additional 4 hours which will bring his total salary to over 6 thou.

As I said, the living conditions don't suit everyone, but if you can bite the bullet for 2 or 3 years there, you will smile all the way to the bank.

BTW, licensed teachers earn way more, but I am guessing teach longer hours. So all in all he has a pretty sweet deal.
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: The 13th Earl on August 27, 2014, 07:19:16 am
Quote
...foreigners now have to compete with Korean teachers who are not only fluent in English but also willing to work harder for less money.
Oh really?


That made me laugh too.


Speaking English and having the ability to teach are two totally different things. Korean educators haven't worked that bit out yet.
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: ciannagh on August 27, 2014, 07:35:15 am
Quote
...foreigners now have to compete with Korean teachers who are not only fluent in English but also willing to work harder for less money.
Oh really?

Yeah, the thing that really gets me about this is that they seem to equate being fluent in English to having the ability to properly teach it.
Yes.  That's more or less why you have a job in this country.  But ... you disagree?

I disagree slightly, yes. Students learn way more from actually listening to and speaking in English than they do being talked at about it in Korean.  If they're actually forced to have to use English rather than resorting to Korean, they learn.

That said, I don't think the NETs can really be of any help until the Korean teachers start teaching differently. However, I think NETs are valuable because they DO give the students the opportunity to actually practice the language in a realistic setting - I always have a swarm of students around my desk who come to talk to me during break time and I always welcome them, because they never actually speak in class with the Korean teacher.

Truth be told, the main reason I came out here was to pay off student loans and because I have teaching experience. I didn't come here with under illusion that I'd be accomplishing leaps and bounds with my students' English levels. Do I feel like I'm making a difference? Maybe a small one. I've helped a lot of my students learn at least some new things, and I've managed to conduct classes where they've actually enjoyed learning English.

If there's one thing I know, it's that I didn't become fluent in another language by having the teacher talk at me in English about it.
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: fishead on August 27, 2014, 07:36:44 am
 Lots of those teachers would have been recycled into other schools , other regions and other provinces. That's how Korvia make their money.
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: pkjh on August 27, 2014, 07:44:16 am
Wonder what that graph looks like from that 1995-2010 period. Probably no more than 1000 for most of those years. Maybe even less than 500 nationwide.
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: Ley_Druid on August 27, 2014, 07:49:28 am
The title of the post makes it sound like 2,500 PS NETs have recently been cut.  I was shocked upon reading it. 

The post should be titled Korea has cut 2,500 public school NETs since 2011.

I agree. The way that people post news is really silly on Waygook. They aways try to sensationalize it. I am tired of it. I wish people would word things well because it sounds as if the government decided to cut the jobs that exist, not that they are no longer funding future contracts. Sounds like this happened overnight.
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: jwharrison30 on August 27, 2014, 07:57:32 am
The title of the post makes it sound like 2,500 PS NETs have recently been cut.  I was shocked upon reading it. 

The post should be titled Korea has cut 2,500 public school NETs since 2011.

I agree. The way that people post news is really silly on Waygook. They aways try to sensationalize it. I am tired of it. I wish people would word things well because it sounds as if the government decided to cut the jobs that exist, not that they are no longer funding future contracts. Sounds like this happened overnight.

To be fair though, that is kind of what happened in some MOE's.  Where was it? Incheon?
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: KirbyOwnz on August 27, 2014, 08:05:28 am
Bit of a misleading topic title.

I was leaving this year anyway (PS), I can only imagine how panicked a few of my co-Ts are because this basically means that they have to teach English (a few of them never come to class because they're 'afraid')
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: ajr30 on August 27, 2014, 08:06:42 am
The title of the post makes it sound like 2,500 PS NETs have recently been cut.  I was shocked upon reading it. 

The post should be titled Korea has cut 2,500 public school NETs since 2011.

I agree. The way that people post news is really silly on Waygook. They aways try to sensationalize it. I am tired of it. I wish people would word things well because it sounds as if the government decided to cut the jobs that exist, not that they are no longer funding future contracts. Sounds like this happened overnight.

That seems to be the way news is always posted... everywhere.
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: aklimkewicz on August 27, 2014, 08:23:27 am
The title of the post makes it sound like 2,500 PS NETs have recently been cut.  I was shocked upon reading it. 

The post should be titled Korea has cut 2,500 public school NETs since 2011.

I agree. The way that people post news is really silly on Waygook. They aways try to sensationalize it. I am tired of it. I wish people would word things well because it sounds as if the government decided to cut the jobs that exist, not that they are no longer funding future contracts. Sounds like this happened overnight.

That seems to be the way news is always posted... everywhere.

Yeah, and to be fair, the title in the original article is practically the same: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers in public schools
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: L I on August 27, 2014, 08:36:49 am
Cool. It means there will be more hagwon jobs and, perhaps, more money to be made.

I wouldn't count on it. Even as public school jobs have been cut, hagwon enrollment has continued to decline.

(http://res.heraldm.com/content/image/2013/02/06/20130206001283_0.jpg)
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: koreaiskorea on August 27, 2014, 09:39:07 am
Great maybe these fluent Korean English teachers can teach the students great phrases like this one found in my school above the English room..   Besides the spelling and grammar, confusing feet with feel, that's a far cry from fluent.
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: ShoGun on August 27, 2014, 09:39:49 am
Perhaps that has to do with the declining birth rate...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/southkorea/11054817/South-Koreans-will-be-extinct-by-2750.html
 
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: L I on August 27, 2014, 09:43:44 am
Saw this today:

In 1970, there were 31.2 babies born per thousand people.

http://blogs.wsj.com/korearealtime/2014/08/26/south-korea-birthrate-hits-lowest-on-record/

Just 8.6 babies per 1,000 South Koreans were born last year.
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: jwharrison30 on August 27, 2014, 09:45:07 am
Great maybe these fluent Korean English teachers can teach the students great phrases like this one found in my school above the English room..   Besides the spelling and grammar, confusing feet with feel, that's a far cry from fluent.

You are just misunderstanding it.  It is like the idiom "to walk a mile in their shoes", or "to write Shakespeare, you must live Shakespeare".

It has been condensed into "feet it".  Even Ezra Pound would be impressed with the poetic elegance of that sentence.

Brilliant really.
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: CanineKimchi on August 27, 2014, 09:53:06 am
When I get axed the "english only zone" is going with me
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: GoCyclones on August 27, 2014, 10:21:30 am
I've said it for years... life would be so much better for me here if most of you just went home.

More work
Higher pay
Better jobs
And if I were still single, a lot more sex!
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: jeremydc808 on August 27, 2014, 10:51:45 am
Well, with the supply of new 'teachers' coming in Korea can do what it wants. It's funny how it seems that Korea has some of you by the basketballs.


The pay is stagnant, the respect is diminishing, and Korea thinks it's ready to teach English.......  Should be a fun few years ahead of us.
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: busandar on August 27, 2014, 11:44:53 am
Great maybe these fluent Korean English teachers can teach the students great phrases like this one found in my school above the English room..   Besides the spelling and grammar, confusing feet with feel, that's a far cry from fluent.

Well, that just made my day a hell of a lot better - many thanks!
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: sejongthefabulous on August 27, 2014, 12:14:33 pm
The graph starts in 2011 at the peak of NETs. If you go back a decade you will see the net gain in NETs over a longer period to be positive.

This has little to do with the declining birthrate and more to do with budgets than anything. Total expenditure for elementary education has increased despite the declining birthrates.

We are simply the easiest targets. There are people who want us gone for a variety of reasons and we have no power. Very few worth listening to argue from the educational value perspective.  They say Koreans can teach fine to try and calm our supporters. Just like those who want us gone won't listen to why we are valuable and instead talk cheaper alternatives, those who support us won't agree why we are useless and argue education is worth the investment.
Koreans can teach fine, but they can teach better with us, and students can learn fine without us, but they can learn better with us. Apart from the morons out there who argue we are useless, we do positively influence education.

The real questions about NETs are how much do we influence English language learning and does this make economic sense?
Since 2011 government budgets for education have been stretched to include things like meals, babysitting, after school activities, counselling, special education, physical education, increased security etc. Not to mention more expenses at earlier levels and later levels. Money left for core academic subjects has simply decreased. When you think about all of these things, a cutback in NETs does seem fair.
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: slycordinator on August 27, 2014, 12:36:31 pm
Since 2011 government budgets for education have been stretched to include things like meals, babysitting, after school activities, counselling, special education, physical education, increased security etc. Not to mention more expenses at earlier levels and later levels. Money left for core academic subjects has simply decreased. When you think about all of these things, a cutback in NETs does seem fair.
I don't follow. They stretched the budgets to include some good stuff with some unnecessary bits and therefore we should say that it's fair to cut back on NETs? Switch the meals to be free only for people who can't afford it and suddenly you'll find budget, for instance...
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: CanineKimchi on August 27, 2014, 01:21:43 pm
Since 2011 government budgets for education have been stretched to include things like meals, babysitting, after school activities, counselling, special education, physical education, increased security etc. Not to mention more expenses at earlier levels and later levels. Money left for core academic subjects has simply decreased. When you think about all of these things, a cutback in NETs does seem fair.
I don't follow. They stretched the budgets to include some good stuff with some unnecessary bits and therefore we should say that it's fair to cut back on NETs? Switch the meals to be free only for people who can't afford it and suddenly you'll find budget, for instance...

I agree. A blanket policy of free lunches just doesn't make fiscal sense. Though those is need should absolutely get assistance.
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: 감자탕 on August 28, 2014, 10:07:29 am
Since 2011 government budgets for education have been stretched to include things like meals, babysitting, after school activities, counselling, special education, physical education, increased security etc. Not to mention more expenses at earlier levels and later levels. Money left for core academic subjects has simply decreased. When you think about all of these things, a cutback in NETs does seem fair.
I don't follow. They stretched the budgets to include some good stuff with some unnecessary bits and therefore we should say that it's fair to cut back on NETs? Switch the meals to be free only for people who can't afford it and suddenly you'll find budget, for instance...

I agree. A blanket policy of free lunches just doesn't make fiscal sense. Though those is need should absolutely get assistance.

My Co-Teacher told me that they do this because making the poor not pay would stigmatize and humiliate them in front of their peers.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: slycordinator on August 28, 2014, 10:19:11 am
And it's not that hard to have it not done in front of anyone; like you just have it all paid for exclusively through bank transfers by parents. Then, no one is asking why the one kid isn't bringing daily lunch money.

But as if no one could find any other way to stigmatize poor people.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: sejongthefabulous on August 28, 2014, 11:18:37 am
Since 2011 government budgets for education have been stretched to include things like meals, babysitting, after school activities, counselling, special education, physical education, increased security etc. Not to mention more expenses at earlier levels and later levels. Money left for core academic subjects has simply decreased. When you think about all of these things, a cutback in NETs does seem fair.
I don't follow. They stretched the budgets to include some good stuff with some unnecessary bits and therefore we should say that it's fair to cut back on NETs? Switch the meals to be free only for people who can't afford it and suddenly you'll find budget, for instance...
It's not fair to argue we are less important than food? Jeez you didn't think that out from a family economics perspective.

Funny you pick the most (perhaps only) controversial expansion I mentioned to target. Yes that is a huge drain, but they all add up. When I said seems fair, I had my eyes on the other things. I also don't support free lunch for all as more important to education than English teacher.
However when they tried to take away free lunch, a mayor lost his job along with several education super superintendents. Obviously it's popular. I'd argue more popular than us. A free lunch that used to be 50,000 a month is just that. English education is a lot more complex and the benefits much less tangible.
It boils down to family budgets and such. Just because you aren't in the bottom 70% doesn't mean you want to dish out 50,000 won per kid a month to feed lunch over having a NET in in some of their public school classes. With that 50,000 you can send them to after school classes and camps where they will get several hours more English education a week, some even with a NET perhaps. Or you can put the money towards a private academy...your choice. Paying for lunch or starving a kid....not much of a choice.
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: o0pigpooh0o on August 28, 2014, 12:02:04 pm
And it's not that hard to have it not done in front of anyone; like you just have it all paid for exclusively through bank transfers by parents. Then, no one is asking why the one kid isn't bringing daily lunch money.

But as if no one could find any other way to stigmatize poor people.  :laugh:

Yeah, it was this way when I went to school in the UK. My family wasn't too rich so I got free lunches. But no one would have known that. And I didn't even realise it for a while. I just went to eat lunch like everyone else. 
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: slycordinator on August 28, 2014, 01:03:16 pm
It's not fair to argue we are less important than food? Jeez you didn't think that out from a family economics perspective.

Funny you pick the most (perhaps only) controversial expansion I mentioned to target. Yes that is a huge drain, but they all add up. When I said seems fair, I had my eyes on the other things. I also don't support free lunch for all as more important to education than English teacher.
So let me get this straight:
1) You say I didn't think things out because I suggested only giving free lunches to people who can't afford lunch and that we are more important than free lunches for everyone.

but at the same time...
2) You agree with me 100% that free lunches for all is less important than having us.

Also, I said uneccesary bits. I said "for example" to indicate that this was one example. I find the "extra security" to be dubious, considering that in many cases that ended up just being a guy that stands at the front entrance. And I don't think babysitting services are essential either. Or at least less essential than education...

With that 50,000 you can send them to after school classes and camps where they will get several hours more English education a week, some even with a NET perhaps. Or you can put the money towards a private academy...your choice. Paying for lunch or starving a kid....not much of a choice.
But there is no starving kid. That's what you're not getting. I suggested giving assistance to those that need assisting. If the kid is starving... they're going to get assistance.
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: myungsup on August 28, 2014, 01:10:01 pm
Quote
...foreigners now have to compete with Korean teachers who are not only fluent in English but also willing to work harder for less money.
Oh really?

Yeah, the thing that really gets me about this is that they seem to equate being fluent in English to having the ability to properly teach it. Every Korean teacher that I've met teaches English entirely in Korean with a few English words thrown in. They then wonder why all of the money invested in English education is doing absolutely nothing.

People try to use the argument that it's because Korean and English are so different, but I call bulls*** on that - I've met so many from China and the Middle East who speak English at a fantastic level. It's not how similar the languages are as it is the quality of instruction.

Chinese grammar is a nice blend between English and Korean grammar. I can't speak for all of the Middle East, but the grammar structure in Arabic is near identical to English.
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: sejongthefabulous on August 28, 2014, 01:46:18 pm
It's not fair to argue we are less important than food? Jeez you didn't think that out from a family economics perspective.

Funny you pick the most (perhaps only) controversial expansion I mentioned to target. Yes that is a huge drain, but they all add up. When I said seems fair, I had my eyes on the other things. I also don't support free lunch for all as more important to education than English teacher.
So let me get this straight:
1) You say I didn't think things out because I suggested only giving free lunches to people who can't afford lunch and that we are more important than free lunches for everyone.

but at the same time...
2) You agree with me 100% that free lunches for all is less important than having us.

Also, I said uneccesary bits. I said "for example" to indicate that this was one example. I find the "extra security" to be dubious, considering that in many cases that ended up just being a guy that stands at the front entrance. And I don't think babysitting services are essential either. Or at least less essential than education...

With that 50,000 you can send them to after school classes and camps where they will get several hours more English education a week, some even with a NET perhaps. Or you can put the money towards a private academy...your choice. Paying for lunch or starving a kid....not much of a choice.
But there is no starving kid. That's what you're not getting. I suggested giving assistance to those that need assisting. If the kid is starving... they're going to get assistance.
NETs in public school aren't the only things people care about. Education budget is bloated so it's easy to pilfer from if you'd rather spend the money on other things. My point is, need it or not, saving 50,000 a month is pretty sweet. I don't think it's educational reasons they prefer free lunches for the middle class over better English education potential. I'm also rational enough to understand that not all education budget should strictly be for improving education. Whether parents use the savings directly for education or not, less bills to pay means less family stress.

And my school's gate greeter could beat your school's gate greeter in a staring contest. Besides he helps manage the delivery people, stops freeloaders from coming in to park, lurk, or sell things and knows how to use the surveillance cameras, lock the doors and when it's necessary to call the cops. He also helps with a little grounds keeping and children and parents feel safer and happy to see him. The rest of us were clueless and required meetings or worked piecemeal until he came along. I can't say he is there for educational purposes, but I think feeling safe and secure (whether true or imagined) would have a positive benefit for the learning environment. I can't say that my job is more important than his just like I can't say my job is more important than free lunches for the middle classes. That's up for voters. Call it education or not, it's under education budget.
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: gagevt on August 28, 2014, 02:00:15 pm
It's not fair to argue we are less important than food? Jeez you didn't think that out from a family economics perspective.

Funny you pick the most (perhaps only) controversial expansion I mentioned to target. Yes that is a huge drain, but they all add up. When I said seems fair, I had my eyes on the other things. I also don't support free lunch for all as more important to education than English teacher.
So let me get this straight:
1) You say I didn't think things out because I suggested only giving free lunches to people who can't afford lunch and that we are more important than free lunches for everyone.

but at the same time...
2) You agree with me 100% that free lunches for all is less important than having us.

Also, I said uneccesary bits. I said "for example" to indicate that this was one example. I find the "extra security" to be dubious, considering that in many cases that ended up just being a guy that stands at the front entrance. And I don't think babysitting services are essential either. Or at least less essential than education...

With that 50,000 you can send them to after school classes and camps where they will get several hours more English education a week, some even with a NET perhaps. Or you can put the money towards a private academy...your choice. Paying for lunch or starving a kid....not much of a choice.
But there is no starving kid. That's what you're not getting. I suggested giving assistance to those that need assisting. If the kid is starving... they're going to get assistance.
NETs in public school aren't the only things people care about. Education budget is bloated so it's easy to pilfer from if you'd rather spend the money on other things. My point is, need it or not, saving 50,000 a month is pretty sweet. I don't think it's educational reasons they prefer free lunches for the middle class over better English education potential. I'm also rational enough to understand that not all education budget should strictly be for improving education. Whether parents use the savings directly for education or not, less bills to pay means less family stress.

And my school's gate greeter could beat your school's gate greeter in a staring contest. Besides he helps manage the delivery people, stops freeloaders from coming in to park, lurk, or sell things and knows how to use the surveillance cameras, lock the doors and when it's necessary to call the cops. He also helps with a little grounds keeping and children and parents feel safer and happy to see him. The rest of us were clueless and required meetings or worked piecemeal until he came along. I can't say he is there for educational purposes, but I think feeling safe and secure (whether true or imagined) would have a positive benefit for the learning environment. I can't say that my job is more important than his just like I can't say my job is more important than free lunches for the middle classes. That's up for voters. Call it education or not, it's under education budget.

My old school's security guy got in a fight with a middle school student from another school, half his size and lost... :( They were both taken away in a police car, that arrived while the old man was still on the ground. He still works there though.
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: slycordinator on August 28, 2014, 02:10:15 pm
I think it feels like now you're saying that it's neither fair nor unfair for that us to be culled, which is fair in that the voters get what they choose to vote for. But I still think that if they choose something stupid, that I should be able to take the stance as saying so.

And the security guard is important because he can control the cameras? Yeah... they can show anyone at the school how to do that. In fact, many schools just put the screens in the main office...
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: L I on September 04, 2014, 10:36:47 am
According to this...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10205093460562631

...in 2013, 9,416 public schools (81.4%) had a NET.

Now in 2014, only 5,692 (48.6%) have a NET.

That's quite a drop in just one year.

The source listed is www.yunjaeok.com.

I think it's legit. (It is taking into account recently NETS have been increasing put at multiple schools, some doing five different schools per week. Even so, cuts have been so drastic, now more public schools don't have a NET (in any capacity) than do.
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: Pecan on September 04, 2014, 11:38:47 am
According to this...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10205093460562631

...in 2013, 9,416 public schools (81.4%) had a NET.

Now in 2014, only 5,692 (48.6%) have a NET.

That's quite a drop in just one year.

The source listed is www.yunjaeok.com.

I think it's legit. (It is taking into account recently NETS have been increasing put at multiple schools, some doing five different schools per week. Even so, cuts have been so drastic, now more public schools don't have a NET (in any capacity) than do.

Those numbers are misleading.

If you omit the middle schools and most of the high schools from the equation, you get a more accurate picture.

97% of the schools that are programmed/budgeted to have a foreigner, have a foreigner.
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: Ley_Druid on September 05, 2014, 08:51:32 am
According to this...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10205093460562631

...in 2013, 9,416 public schools (81.4%) had a NET.

Now in 2014, only 5,692 (48.6%) have a NET.

That's quite a drop in just one year.

The source listed is www.yunjaeok.com.

I think it's legit. (It is taking into account recently NETS have been increasing put at multiple schools, some doing five different schools per week. Even so, cuts have been so drastic, now more public schools don't have a NET (in any capacity) than do.

Those numbers are misleading.

If you omit the middle schools and most of the high schools from the equation, you get a more accurate picture.

97% of the schools that are programmed/budgeted to have a foreigner, have a foreigner.

Source? How many schools are budgeted for a NET? How many have them? What is the percentage of elementary schools that have NETs? What is the total percentage of schools, elementary, middle, and high, that have NETs?
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: L I on September 05, 2014, 12:00:33 pm
The original plan was for every public school in Korea to have their own NET.

Now less than half have one (shared or otherwise).

Less schools receive government money to get one than before.

Rural/poor areas (especially at the elementary level) seem to still get budgets for them. Other schools, not so much.

There has been a sizable reduction going on lately.
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: Pecan on September 05, 2014, 01:44:03 pm
According to this...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10205093460562631

...in 2013, 9,416 public schools (81.4%) had a NET.

Now in 2014, only 5,692 (48.6%) have a NET.

That's quite a drop in just one year.

The source listed is www.yunjaeok.com.

I think it's legit. (It is taking into account recently NETS have been increasing put at multiple schools, some doing five different schools per week. Even so, cuts have been so drastic, now more public schools don't have a NET (in any capacity) than do.

Those numbers are misleading.

If you omit the middle schools and most of the high schools from the equation, you get a more accurate picture.

97% of the schools that are programmed/budgeted to have a foreigner, have a foreigner.

Source? How many schools are budgeted for a NET? How many have them? What is the percentage of elementary schools that have NETs? What is the total percentage of schools, elementary, middle, and high, that have NETs?

Sorry for the confusion, Seoul-only, not country-wide (http://sen.go.kr)

In Seoul, 587 elementary schools have at least one native teacher, some middle schools and a few high schools have a special budget for native teachers, making the current number, 686.


Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: ravenlock on September 05, 2014, 04:59:55 pm
come to China..


I know I have only been here three weeks, but everything is much better. Food, students, coworkers, Chinese people are mad chill and really super relaxed. MONEY...mad vacation time..NO SUMMERS!!! and one month in the winter!

The internet sucks, and the efficiency of my coworkers is rather head scratching, but I am learning how to work the system. Ask early, and often, expect numerous delays and errors, and then be expected to praise them when the task is FINALLY completed-but this is Asia, so standard protocol. Not really surprised...and not a whole lot different from Korea.

I am teaching Bio/Chem and not English, so maybe I can't relate to ESL  teaching here, but I work in a school with an ESL teacher here, very satisfied. We choose how to teach, test, and make our own schedule.

Seriously, everything is much improved here. ESPECIALLY THE FOOD!!! And in my mind, not witnessing the obscene vanity of every person around me is a major life improvement. I actually was looking for mirrors myself...nope, not a thing here. so refreshing.

Try it, you might like it.
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: basic69isokay on September 05, 2014, 07:46:50 pm
come to China..


I know I have only been here three weeks, but everything is much better. Food, students, coworkers, Chinese people are mad chill and really super relaxed. MONEY...mad vacation time..NO SUMMERS!!! and one month in the winter!

The internet sucks, and the efficiency of my coworkers is rather head scratching, but I am learning how to work the system. Ask early, and often, expect numerous delays and errors, and then be expected to praise them when the task is FINALLY completed-but this is Asia, so standard protocol. Not really surprised...and not a whole lot different from Korea.

I am teaching Bio/Chem and not English, so maybe I can't relate to ESL  teaching here, but I work in a school with an ESL teacher here, very satisfied. We choose how to teach, test, and make our own schedule.

Seriously, everything is much improved here. ESPECIALLY THE FOOD!!! And in my mind, not witnessing the obscene vanity of every person around me is a major life improvement. I actually was looking for mirrors myself...nope, not a thing here. so refreshing.

Try it, you might like it.
Which city would you recommend?
Are you able to breathe well?
Title: Re: Korea cuts 2,500 native-English teachers at public schools
Post by: L I on September 05, 2014, 08:33:14 pm
In Seoul, 587 elementary schools have at least one native teacher, some middle schools and a few high schools have a special budget for native teachers, making the current number, 686.

It's better than nothing, but that's a really small total considering Seoul is one of the biggest cities in the world. That's one NET for every 15,000 residents.

Granted, Seoul has a really low birthrate...

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20140904000794

...but that's a freaking tiny number. I'd say the number of middle and high schools in Seoul with a special budget for a native speaker are few and far between (so much so as to be statistically insignificant).