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All about South Korea => Life in Korea => Topic started by: KoreaBoo on July 15, 2022, 06:24:08 am

Title: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: KoreaBoo on July 15, 2022, 06:24:08 am
Korea is still far better than many countries out there. 

If you are looking to work in China as your solution, you really do need to think about an alternative option.

From 2004, but still very relevant today.  I see quite a bit of you in this article that has formed over the years of reading your posts.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/3325192/The-slavery-of-teaching-English.html
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: VanIslander on July 15, 2022, 06:54:01 am
The quoted link quotes this opinion: "... no one with a scrap of ambition" would choose to teach English as a foreign language...

I wanted to travel. I wanted to go to Japan. I wanted to go to China. I wanted to go to Thailand. Teaching English overseas has let me do that easily (though my 5th trip to Japan I lied to myself and said the insane cost wasn't worth returning, though that friggin' northern island with its winter festival is on my bucket list (you know the name). I also wanted to go to Australia (settled for a month in New Zealand: no regrets).

Why did I go overseas: The seed was planted by my first newspaper editor who advised me to travel the world to understand your country (he having been to Argentina, India, Turkey, France, Denmark, among others). I also was finishing a graduate school class when I saw a taped-on-the-wall piece of paper promoting Korea as a place to teach English and "see the world". That plus my editor's advice got the wheels turning. What the hell did i know about South Korea? The reporter in me was intrigued. I could do that for a year (expecting rural China or Vietnam conditions, sleeping on mats with mosquito nets, eating bugs sometimes, heck, i brought batteries on the plane!?! (In my defense: this was '02, when smartphones were non-existent and the Internet was a child.)
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: studybuddy on July 15, 2022, 12:37:41 pm
Hard to disagree with anything he said especially when the average salary hasn't gone up.
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: VanIslander on July 15, 2022, 08:21:39 pm
Hard to disagree with anything he said especially when the average salary hasn't gone up.
If you are all about the Benjamins, then teaching ain't your gig, unless tutoring is your thing.

One hopes doctors didn't go into medicine for the money and prestige, but it is easy to understand those who do; in contrast, one hopes one's teachers aren't punching clocks to make coin, as it makes less sense on both a financial and career-fit level.

Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: T_Rex on July 16, 2022, 04:39:41 am
From the 2004 article:

"So while teaching English is fine if you want to spend a year abroad, and great for meeting pretty foreign girls, considered as a career that might offer some degree of professional fulfilment, it fails on every count. No one with a scrap of ambition can possibly consider it. As the philosopher Alain de Botton says: 'You become a TEFL teacher when your life has gone wrong.'

"The most objectionable aspect of this industry is not, however, the misery of those who work in it, but the posturing endemic to it. Typical of this is the pretence of professional credibility that surrounds the Mickey Mouse teaching certificate most teachers possess....

"Some TEFL slaves have been so thoroughly defeated that they don't even realise what has happened to them. I can sniff out the 'lifers' a mile off . . . scruffy figures, utterly out of synch with the modern world, any style or sex-appeal they once possessed squeezed out of them by years of drudgery, exploitation and poverty....

"After the age of 40, English teachers are burnt-out, skill-less and unemployable, their working lives a wasteland, their future oblivion. Suicide attempts are not unheard of. A former colleague of mine, a charming and talented but fatally lazy Scotsman who was well on his way to drinking himself to death, was recently found in a pool of blood, having tried to finish himself off by slashing his wrists."

Teaching ESL is best for young people who want a gap year experience or older people retired from a successful first career. Spending your prime working years teaching ESL is not a good idea.

Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: gogators! on July 16, 2022, 06:12:47 am
From the 2004 article:

"So while teaching English is fine if you want to spend a year abroad, and great for meeting pretty foreign girls, considered as a career that might offer some degree of professional fulfilment, it fails on every count. No one with a scrap of ambition can possibly consider it. As the philosopher Alain de Botton says: 'You become a TEFL teacher when your life has gone wrong.'

"The most objectionable aspect of this industry is not, however, the misery of those who work in it, but the posturing endemic to it. Typical of this is the pretence of professional credibility that surrounds the Mickey Mouse teaching certificate most teachers possess....

"Some TEFL slaves have been so thoroughly defeated that they don't even realise what has happened to them. I can sniff out the 'lifers' a mile off . . . scruffy figures, utterly out of synch with the modern world, any style or sex-appeal they once possessed squeezed out of them by years of drudgery, exploitation and poverty....

"After the age of 40, English teachers are burnt-out, skill-less and unemployable, their working lives a wasteland, their future oblivion. Suicide attempts are not unheard of. A former colleague of mine, a charming and talented but fatally lazy Scotsman who was well on his way to drinking himself to death, was recently found in a pool of blood, having tried to finish himself off by slashing his wrists."

Teaching ESL is best for young people who want a gap year experience or older people retired from a successful first career. Spending your prime working years teaching ESL is not a good idea.


Although teaching at a uni in SK and doing pretty much any and all extra work that was offered me worked out financially for me (thank you, Vanguard), ESL is pretty much a deadend job. And it's such an undemanding profession that it's easy to get stuck in it, substituting travel and hobbies (If I had 100 won for every English teacher I met in Korea who was learning to play guitar...) for starting a family, working toward financial security, etc.

Look at the threads on this forum--what TV show/movie are you watching, book you are reading, music you are listening to, food you miss, food you are cooking, etc. Look at martini, at the very least a well-read person, wasting his time writing screed after screed.

As for "being in it for the coin," why not? It's only reasonable for a professional to expect commensurate compensation. Now it can be argued that many teaching ESL are less than professional and are only tangentially qualified.
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: SPQR on July 16, 2022, 09:24:31 am
If I was to go back in time there is no way I would come to Korea or
teach ESL again. There are just too many positives to living in Canada
and too many negatives to living in Korea and the ESL gig.

ESL has absolutely no room for advancement. The best you can do
is open your own business. This is what I did, but teaching ESL gets
onerous quickly.

South Korea has so many limitations both in its geography, culture and
laws. I like nature not garbage, barbed wire and cigarette butts. Women's
status here is primitive and appalling. Korea just ranked 102nd out
of 156 countries for gender parity. I have a daughter and a reality like
that is just bullshit. The laws here are myopic and depressing. Almost
everything fun is illegal.

All that being said I have had some fun here and bought a house at the
right time. I have a handful of years left in this place and then it is off
to Thailand for retirement. The Korean government has provided a pension
and I have other IT projects I do for companies in Korea. So, financially,
for me, it is not all terrible.

But the ESL gig is over. Please leave the ride and make your way to the exit.




Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: Adel on July 16, 2022, 09:25:52 am
Thank you T_Rex. I wasn't about to give my email away just so I could read the article.

I don't know. A couple of things ring true, but I'm not going to bite. The OP should have better things to do. All I'll say is; This industry has given me a lot of satisfaction over the years, and has provided myself and my family with a bit of financial security. Go figure!

No, no, no! Don't discourage him.  We need this dated self-aggrandizing inflammatory crap now that Marti isn't around trying rile people up anymore.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: grimlock2 on July 16, 2022, 09:38:37 am
There have always been people around who get a kick out of making others feel bad about their lives. Usually because there's some aspect of their own lives they're not satisfied with. These people always claim they do what they do for altruistic reasons, they want to help people see the truth. I don't think they fool many people, least of all themselves
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 16, 2022, 11:27:02 am
I have to confess something. I mainly joined this forum because I'm curious about the Korean ESL scene. Has pay really not gone up since the mid-2000s?
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: grimlock2 on July 16, 2022, 11:45:59 am
Pay for entry level hagwan and PS school jobs? No, it hasn't. They have relied on growing interest in Korean popular culture to keep a steady flow of fresh out of college applicants.
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: L I on July 16, 2022, 11:51:11 am
Adjusted for inflation pay has gone down at all levels, including at universities.
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 16, 2022, 12:09:04 pm
Pay for entry level hagwan and PS school jobs? No, it hasn't. They have relied on growing interest in Korean popular culture to keep a steady flow of fresh out of college applicants.

I've been in Asia for a while so I'm out of touch with North American youth culture. I remember I was considering Korea back in 2012 but gave up when I started dealing with recruiters. Is the Korean Wave really that strong?  :huh:
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: grimlock2 on July 16, 2022, 12:24:18 pm
I think it is in North America at any rate. I don't see much evidence of it in the UK or Ireland. I'm only going through what I've heard, though, I've never actually met any Westerners in Korea who were into that stuff.
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 16, 2022, 12:46:28 pm
Don't people figure out pretty quickly that Korea in real life isn't anything like the dramas? I visited Seoul a few years ago and it was a total concrete jungle.
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 16, 2022, 01:06:31 pm
Alright. I guess life would have turned out quite differently if I had gone there to teach. Who knows?
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: grimlock2 on July 16, 2022, 01:08:27 pm
Adjusted for inflation pay has gone down at all levels, including at universities.

Has it?  I'll take your word for it.  I'm making a lot more now than when I came, even adjusting for inflation. Also, if you're going to adjust it for inflation, it's fair to take the exchange rate into account too, which has been very favourable for Brits since the early 2000s
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: grimlock2 on July 16, 2022, 01:11:11 pm
I've been to Seoul three times since 2000. Once for clothes, once to the consulate, and once for a 60th party at a restaurant. And yes, even the simplest have to eventually figure out that K.dramas do not reflect actual life in Korea...but...who would know!

I live in Seoul but have only watched Squid Game. So I have no idea about the lifestyle portrayed in K dramas that I've apparently been missing out on. What is it that they portray in such an evocative way?
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 16, 2022, 01:20:20 pm
The apartments and living quarters in the dramas really strike me as unrealistic.
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 16, 2022, 01:55:52 pm
They do have an appeal to them, but I find if you've seen about five-ish, you've seen them all.
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: grimlock2 on July 16, 2022, 02:07:46 pm
I don't watch them either, but can't help glancing at them as I channel hop or if my wife has a current series. Worse when my daughters come to stay. The one's that are typically on around our place revolve around scenes with a smattering of couples walking together while quiet music plays. Not many people around and the setting's either a river (the Han I suppose), a park, or a romantically lit street. Or you get the 'couples sitting together' on benches, scenes. Just stinks of romance and happiness, or gives the impression of a nice life.

Then you also have the romantic beach settings, or the always polite and handsome man, or the perfect family. There maybe one or two uncouth characters around...usually rich, and some catty women just to create some anxiety for the tall well-mannered boy and the love of his life Throw in tears, a fight, dramatic music to stir the heart  and a romantic end...and Bobs ya uncle...We have one of the typical dramas.

Others involve the hard working family whose son or daughter gets caught up with another from a class or two above. Rinse and repeat the dramatic scenes.

There are other versions, but I reckon you've got it, without me prattling on some more.

Geez, who said "I don't really watch them"  :-[

Edit: not many puking, spitting, swearing, or family abuse themes. Ocassionally you get a worried older man who has drunk too much soju, or a younger person who gets a little meloncholy or angry over a broken heart or a sorry situation. Just adds to the drama though without creating a feeling of negativity in the viewer.

What a boring day I'm having  :rolleyes:

You can get away from the crowds in Seoul parks and the Han river but you have to go early in the morning. As for beaches the trick is just to go any time apart from July or August and you'll virtually have it to yourself
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 16, 2022, 03:47:18 pm


Edit: not many puking, spitting, swearing, or family abuse themes. Ocassionally you get a worried older man who has drunk too much soju, or a younger person who gets a little meloncholy or angry over a broken heart or a sorry situation. Just adds to the drama though without creating a feeling of negativity in the viewer.

What a boring day I'm having  :rolleyes:

I heard a lot of Koreans didn't like Squid Game because it actually discussed some of the real problems in Korean society. I also think dramas way overplay the importance filial piety has in people's lives. Sure, it's important, but that doesn't mean everyone follows it to the letter all the time.
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: HiddenInKorea on July 16, 2022, 04:44:10 pm
I think the world is a lot different now than it was 10 or even 20 years ago.
Sure, back in the day when the internet was just starting out, there were not many options for those teaching ESL. However, now, you can easily complete online school in a different field.
If you have secondary skills like website design or graphic design, you can work many remote jobs. 

Obviously, if someone studied to become a nurse or a lawyer and then gives that all up to teach ESL for 10 years, that would be not a good idea... but if you have a relevant major, like international development, with a focus on ESL, it's fine to do this work. When you return home that makes you more credible as overseas work is what you need in this case.
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 16, 2022, 07:55:47 pm
Besides China, which is unfeasible at the moment, are there countries that have a TEFL market that pay more?
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: grimlock2 on July 16, 2022, 07:58:48 pm
That would depend on your experience and qualifications.
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 16, 2022, 08:07:38 pm
I'm doing an iPGCE now. Thinking of carrying on and getting a Master's.
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: grimlock2 on July 16, 2022, 08:14:53 pm
I'm doing an iPGCE now. Thinking of carrying on and getting a Master's.

The iPGCE isn't a TEFL qualification, so a bit irrelevant. Check out international school teachers forums to get an idea of the best countries to teach non EFL subjects. The Masters would depend on what subject and online/offline.
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 16, 2022, 08:25:08 pm
I'm a bit confused. How do you guys define "TEFL" in Korea? I'm at an international school now but I teach ESL
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: KoreaBoo on July 16, 2022, 11:26:09 pm
There have always been people around who get a kick out of making others feel bad about their lives. Usually because there's some aspect of their own lives they're not satisfied with. These people always claim they do what they do for altruistic reasons, they want to help people see the truth. I don't think they fool many people, least of all themselves

When someone is faced with a position or argument they cannot win or overcome, they attack the personal characteristics of the other individual.

I was attacked personally for years.   I planned very carefully and explained the rationale for my decisions. 

I was ridiculed by the so-called 'experts' who claimed to know everything, or peeps that declared they were happy with the positions they put themselves in.

The echo chamber was something I did not accept or prescribe to.  No matter how much they liked to drink themselves into happiness every weekend.

Now that I'm back home and doing well, I do take these posts as an 'I win' button.

:P

Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 16, 2022, 11:46:17 pm
KoreaBoo, I am glad you are doing well. May I ask where your home is and what you are doing now?
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: Adel on July 17, 2022, 01:39:45 am
I love how this KoreaBoo guy has to keep posting on this forum to remind himself of what a winner he is. I only wish my contribution to the forum would have such a powerful influence over my own self esteem.  Then again, perhaps not everyone has the same needs that require that type of fulfilment. 
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: grimlock2 on July 17, 2022, 03:30:49 am
When someone is faced with a position or argument they cannot win or overcome, they attack the personal characteristics of the other individual.

I was attacked personally for years.   I planned very carefully and explained the rationale for my decisions. 

I was ridiculed by the so-called 'experts' who claimed to know everything, or peeps that declared they were happy with the positions they put themselves in.

The echo chamber was something I did not accept or prescribe to.  No matter how much they liked to drink themselves into happiness every weekend.

Now that I'm back home and doing well, I do take these posts as an 'I win' button.

:P

Your ' position' or 'argument' is dull and has been rehashed a hundred times.  Are there lots of low paid jobs in TEFL? Yes. Are there other fields that pay more? Yes. Is it still possible to make a decent living? Yes. (I have)

As Adel points out, your motivation for continued posting on here is slightly more interesting. There's definitely a bullied at school air about your posts. Tell us more.
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: KoreaBoo on July 17, 2022, 03:34:07 am
Your ' position' or 'argument' is dull and has been rehashed a hundred times.  Are there lots of low paid jobs in TEFL? Yes. Are there other fields that pay more? Yes. Is it still possible to make a decent living? Yes. (I have)

As Adel points out, your motivation for continued posting on here is slightly more interesting. There's definitely a bullied at school air about your posts. Tell us more.

Textbook defensive post. 

Exactly as I stated it would happen.

Thank you for proving my point.
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: KoreaBoo on July 17, 2022, 03:35:31 am
I love how this KoreaBoo guy has to keep posting on this forum to remind himself of what a winner he is. I only wish my contribution to the forum would have such a powerful influence over my own self esteem.  Then again, perhaps not everyone has the same needs that require that type of fulfilment. 

My position has never changed on this forum when I was living in Korea, and after I left.

It has remained consistent throughout.

The only difference are those who cannot see the forest from the trees, failed in Korea, left, newly minted ESL instructors who think they got it all figured out...failed...left ...new peeps...etc.
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: grimlock2 on July 17, 2022, 03:44:05 am
Textbook defensive post. 

Exactly as I stated it would happen.

Thank you for proving my point.

How is that defensive when I've agreed with two of your positions? Do you require me to deny the evidence of my assets so I can agree,with you on the third?
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: Adel on July 17, 2022, 03:48:55 am
My position has never changed on this forum when I was living in Korea, and after I left.

It has remained consistent throughout.

The only difference are those who cannot see the forest from the trees, failed in Korea, left, newly minted ESL instructors who think they got it all figured out...failed...left ...new peeps...etc.

Dude, I left Korea almost 10 years ago and also live a comfortable life. I enjoy posting here too, it's just I don't feel the need to buttress my self esteem in the same manner.
Would you acknowledge it's possible that people choose to remain in Korea for a host of reasons different to your own rationale for leaving?
I kind of miss the place myself but would find it difficult to return given the comfort levels that I would leave behind. Ideally I envisage a time where I could just alternate between hemispheres to appreciate the warmer months.
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: grimlock2 on July 17, 2022, 07:28:01 am
I'm a bit confused. How do you guys define "TEFL" in Korea? I'm at an international school now but I teach ESL

It's not my area but from what I've heard schools that don't require qualified teacher status, like yours, are usually classified by those in the business as 'fake' international schools. In order to work at a 'real' international school you have to have QTS and usually a couple of years' expereince in your home country. They don't teach EFL at these 'real' internatioal schools, or if they do they employ a teacher already teaching a subject at the school. As I said, international school reddits can give you more info about this.  If you're teaching EFL full time you're an EFL teacher, so your job would be considered part of the TEFL industry in Korea.
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 17, 2022, 11:11:56 am
During normal times they typically require at least an iPGCE. Due to shortages, they just had to drop the requirement recently. What makes an international school 'real' or 'fake'? There's lots of international schools for people from non-native English speaking countries, like French, Germans, etc... Is it the student body?
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: grimlock2 on July 17, 2022, 11:25:58 am
From the International school teachers Reddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/Internationalteachers/

What is an International School?

An International School is traditionally a school for international students that live in a host country not their own. For 'real' international schools, students are the children of other expatriates, or children from the host country that have spent significant time living outside of their country. School curriculum and instruction is given in English. Teachers are typically a mix between local hires that speak English fluently, and international teachers.

However, there are schools and countries that allow students from the host country to attend. While this is not traditional in an international school, it is not uncommon. There are also bilingual schools that may call themselves 'international' - for example, a private school in the Middle East that has mostly all local students with a few classes in English may call themselves an International school. These schools may have a handful of international students.

Teaching at an International school is not the same as teaching TEFL in a school abroad. Please visit the wonderfully helpful community of r/tefl for questions about that.
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 17, 2022, 11:43:01 am
Wow these guys sound... uhh... "fun."
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: HiddenInKorea on July 17, 2022, 11:57:26 am
It's not my area but from what I've heard schools that don't require qualified teacher status, like yours, are usually classified by those in the business as 'fake' international schools. In order to work at a 'real' international school you have to have QTS and usually a couple of years' expereince in your home country. They don't teach EFL at these 'real' internatioal schools, or if they do they employ a teacher already teaching a subject at the school. As I said, international school reddits can give you more info about this.  If you're teaching EFL full time you're an EFL teacher, so your job would be considered part of the TEFL industry in Korea.

Yes, exactly this.  The difference between being a "TEFL" teacher in Korea, and being able to work at an international school is all about teacher qualifications. If you are qualified to be a career teacher at a public school back home in the US/ Canada/ the UK etc then you can pretty much apply to teach at international schools in Korea, and the work experience is easily transferable back home in case the international school teacher wanted to return back home and continue to teach there. On the other hand, it doesn't take much to be a TEFL teacher in Korea as the requirements are just being a Native speaker from the 7 English Speaking countries, holding a 4 year B.A degree, and a 120-hour TESL certificate. As a TEFL teacher you will be limited to either teaching in the EPIK program as an assistant language teacher, or working at Hakwons, and if you have a Master's Degree, you can try to apply to work at universities.
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: grimlock2 on July 17, 2022, 12:56:59 pm
Wow these guys sound... uhh... "fun."

Yes, unsurprisingly they greatly look down on everyone working in the TEFL industry. A few of them pop up on rtefl fairly regularly, doing similar kind of schtick as Koreaboo.
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 17, 2022, 01:19:28 pm
I don't think teaching only foreign children is a requirement to be an international school. That doesn't really sound industry-standard, and I wouldn't take a SubReddit as an authoritative source. Someone posted a list of the top international schools in China. A lot of them have a lot of Chinese citizens attending, and some international schools, even the ones that are foreigners-only, still require TEFL teachers because not everyone speaks English as a first language. For me, I've always taken the curriculum as the definition. The nationality of the students, in my opinion, is superficial. Guess I have a SubReddit to troll  8)
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: VanIslander on July 17, 2022, 04:23:32 pm
https://youtu.be/Zp2VQ4SIRWM
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: waygo0k on July 18, 2022, 09:35:05 am
As the reddit post said, there are several definitions (and licensing) of international schools, depending on the country and situation. Korea and China are similar in that they both have very strict legal requirements for any institution looking to call itself a school first and foremost, and even more restrictions for those that want to call themselves international schools.  And for international schools specifically...

*all students attending MUST have at least one parent who is a foreign passport holder and foreign residency (due to low student numbers, the Korean government allows a certain number of Korean students to attend these schools)

*because these schools cater essentially to "non-citizen" children, they are exempt from having to follow the national curriculum in these countries.

*even though these rules are pretty stringent, there are loopholes to get around them...for example it is common for wealthy parents who can easily afford these fees to "purchase" citizenships abroad for themselves and their families through immigration investment schemes...hence why these schools will still have a high amount of local kids attending.

Other schools that are not "international" in name and licensing are allowed to and do run international programs, either throughout the whole school or one or more departments. These are the schools that will allow local passport holders to attend.

Look at the various lists in the links below and notice how the schools are named (lists of schools for Chinese passport holders and non-Chinese passport holders). Virtually none of the former are actually called "international school"...just variations of "international division", "foreign Language School" etc.

https://www.hurun.net/en-US/Info/Detail?num=WO7GMLBMJQCU
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: chimp on August 07, 2022, 06:10:24 pm
Yes, unsurprisingly they greatly look down on everyone working in the TEFL industry. A few of them pop up on rtefl fairly regularly, doing similar kind of schtick as Koreaboo.

Odd because teachers in general are pretty dumb and have no right to look down on anyone.
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: Billy Herrington on August 08, 2022, 12:26:46 am
International school teachers aren't smarter than TEFLers. They just study some theories, most of which will be abandoned in the next 10-20 years.
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: gogators! on August 08, 2022, 02:02:18 am
It's always sad when folks decide to flaunt their inferiority complexes.
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: MayorHaggar on August 08, 2022, 05:59:25 am
Just make sure you don't work at an "International School" that isn't actually an international school. These places want to hire native English teachers who aren't going to be fluent in Korean legalese or familar with the reputation of a place in a country they've never been to before.

https://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20170709000269
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: Spliced on August 08, 2022, 09:29:18 am
Just make sure you don't work at an "International School" that isn't actually an international school. These places want to hire native English teachers who aren't going to be fluent in Korean legalese or familar with the reputation of a place in a country they've never been to before.

https://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20170709000269

There are plenty of these soddy dealers on Craigslist, ESL Cafe and accoassinaly ESL ROK.

I really wonder these websites don't do any vetting....(cough, cough..Waygook.org), or, make sure job descriptions don't align with legal requirements.  It seems the overall narrative, is similar to the article when it mentions "no response" from Seoul immigration and inferring to nobody taking responsiblity.


..cough, cough.
Title: Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
Post by: Billy Herrington on August 08, 2022, 01:48:43 pm
What happened to those teachers is so messed up. Kimmi looked at their papers and approved it.