Waygook.org

Career Venue => Contract, and Job Related Issues => Topic started by: sleepy on June 30, 2022, 11:03:17 am

Title: EPIK wage increase
Post by: sleepy on June 30, 2022, 11:03:17 am
2.1 is soon to be minimum wage levels.

http://m.kwnews.co.kr/nview.asp?s=501&aid=222062900149


Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: thunderlips on June 30, 2022, 12:29:22 pm
While I agree nets need a raise, as korean contract teachers, 2.1 isnít the total compensation though. Thereís housing, the 4 insurances, and severance pay. Itís probably closer to 3 million a month total compensation.

Regardless a raise is certainly needed.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: hangook77 on June 30, 2022, 12:48:46 pm
Many minimum wagers are living at home with their parents or their parents paid a large one room deposit for their kids if they moved to a city.  So, many of them don't pay rent;  So, a free one room, especially an old moldy one, is hardly anything to write home about.  Now if they gave you a large luxurious modern place it may be something to reconsider.  In much of Korea, one rooms range from 300 to 500 k a month with 3 to 5 million won deposits and closer to 10 million in Seoul.  In many cases, if you pay 40 or 50 million won deposit, there is either no monthly rent or very little paid monthly. It's not as big a perk as it's made out to be.  The few academies that give a large modern large sized apartments are exempted from this argument of course.  So, you would be equal to a kid just out of high school or only slightly above him or her in spite of being here for a few years and university educated. 
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: hangook77 on June 30, 2022, 12:51:43 pm
While I agree nets need a raise, as korean contract teachers, 2.1 isnít the total compensation though. Thereís housing, the 4 insurances, and severance pay. Itís probably closer to 3 million a month total compensation.

Regardless a raise is certainly needed.

Also remember most academies only pay one way flight now.  So, out of your severance you must pay your own way home.  SMOE doesn't give renewal allowance at all.  A return flight which use to be free.  So, remember you are not making as much money as you think you are.  Plus the exchange rate is falling even worse lately.  You lose money when you send it home plus have less to send home each month. 
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: D.L.Orean on June 30, 2022, 01:00:42 pm
Also remember most academies only pay one way flight now.  So, out of your severance you must pay your own way home.  SMOE doesn't give renewal allowance at all.  A return flight which use to be free.  So, remember you are not making as much money as you think you are.  Plus the exchange rate is falling even worse lately.  You lose money when you send it home plus have less to send home each month.

And with flight prices increasing, those flight allowances aren't going to get you all the way home.

The worsening exchange rate is the perfect reason to keep money in Korea and avoid making big purchases on credit cards from back home. It would be annoying to see something like a car get more expensive with each passing month.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: hangook77 on June 30, 2022, 03:01:42 pm
And with flight prices increasing, those flight allowances aren't going to get you all the way home.

The worsening exchange rate is the perfect reason to keep money in Korea and avoid making big purchases on credit cards from back home. It would be annoying to see something like a car get more expensive with each passing month.

Yes, you're not wrong on that stuff.  But, this recent drop has caught me with my pants down a bit.  Plus the Diesel surge.  Initially my diesel was cheaper when I got my car last year than my old LPG when Diesel was 1200 a liter.  2100 a liter not so much.  Had to carry some debt.  Used cards back home due to Korean credit for foreigners being inferior.  Though they do have lower rates here when you can get it. 

Just glad I am not gasoline.  Ouchie....
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Lazio on June 30, 2022, 05:09:18 pm
Initially my diesel was cheaper when I got my car last year than my old LPG when Diesel was 1200 a liter.  2100 a liter not so much.

Wait a second! Diesel has never been cheaper than LPG!

Reading it again, you probably meant the overall fuel expenses with the consumption factored in too. And not the price of 1 liter at the pump.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: StillInKorea on June 30, 2022, 10:17:34 pm
2.1 is for a 9.5 hour work day, in a month with 22 working days.

If the minimum wage gets much higher, I predict that ESL employers will pay a higher salary but remove the housing benefits.

I give it a few years before the hagwon association starts encouraging this at the meetings that all hagwon owners in Korea are forced to attend.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: hangook77 on July 01, 2022, 09:02:58 am
Wait a second! Diesel has never been cheaper than LPG!

Reading it again, you probably meant the overall fuel expenses with the consumption factored in too. And not the price of 1 liter at the pump.

Yes, I used less fuel as Diesel uses 30% less fuel than gasoline.  When I drove LPG it was 700 to 800 won a liter.  When I first got my diesel it was 1200 won a liter and I was spending less a week in fuel.  But at 2100 won a liter, not so much.  However LPG I see is now around 1100 won a liter?  So, maybe my Diesel would be similar to a new LPG price?  I am only comparing it to my experience of when I drove LPG at 700 to 800 won a liter. 

Funny, I had gasoline years ago and it was all full serve.  Then for years my LPG was too.  Now regular fuel is all self serve.  I had to get use to that again.  That and read Korean menus.  Ha ha. 
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: hangook77 on July 01, 2022, 09:06:10 am
2.1 is for a 9.5 hour work day, in a month with 22 working days.

If the minimum wage gets much higher, I predict that ESL employers will pay a higher salary but remove the housing benefits.

I give it a few years before the hagwon association starts encouraging this at the meetings that all hagwon owners in Korea are forced to attend.

I do seem to get slammed on here.  But there really is China with free housing, flight reimbursement, and much higher salaries.  Are young teachers so in love with BTS and K dramas that they put up with any level of nonsense and exploitation?  Now is this hogwan association a mafia or something?  I mean are they all forced into things?  Either way if it gets much worse, surely teachers will finally leave.  Heck one of my cousins has lately been trying to get me to the Alberta oil patch due to good money being made again.  There are definitely options, either ESL in other countries, or completely different fields all together. 
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: D.L.Orean on July 01, 2022, 09:22:23 am
I do seem to get slammed on here.  But there really is China with free housing, flight reimbursement, and much higher salaries.  Are young teachers so in love with BTS and K dramas that they put up with any level of nonsense and exploitation?  Now is this hogwan association a mafia or something?  I mean are they all forced into things?  Either way if it gets much worse, surely teachers will finally leave.  Heck one of my cousins has lately been trying to get me to the Alberta oil patch due to good money being made again.  There are definitely options, either ESL in other countries, or completely different fields all together.

you don't get to equate your situation to theirs.

I get that you struggle to understand why people want to come to Korea. But surely you understand why China is unappealing to most?
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: hangook77 on July 01, 2022, 10:04:56 am
I get that you struggle to understand why people want to come to Korea. But surely you understand why China is unappealing to most?

While Corona is still going on and winding down along with the lockdowns, not so great.  Plus the travel in general to anywhere is a pain.  However, once this is done with, borders, reopen, and such, it can have more appeal.  Lots of folks I knew who went over in the past did say they liked it.  Pollution is bad, but we got a fair bit of it here too.  I am not telling anyone to go, but have pointed out the wage differentials, mind you in country and outside country seem to be two different pay scales right about now.  I had actually posted some wages and converted them to Korean won on a couple of Facebook groups and many teachers were shocked.  They literally didn't know about it and they believed recruiters who told them they can make a lot of money here.  Then they arrived and realized it wasn't true anymore.  I have also posted some tips on how to push for a higher wage and made the statement wages are too low.  Lots of newbie and young foreigners seem to keep liking my comments.  Not scientific, but it does point out that unless Korea changes there will eventually be a breaking point.  Is it here yet, I doubt it.  But it is creaking closer and closer.  Mostly due to corona, closed and semi closed borders, plus the hassle of travelling still make most folks want to hunker down.  For now.  I get there are rich kids who have no student loans and credit card debts to repay.  I seriously doubt that is most young people nowadays as loans are at an all time high.  The current pay does not allow for rapid repayment of debt anymore like it did when you and I got here.  I would like to see young people have the same chances we had when we first got here.  (If anything, I should have gotten here 5 years earlier to really make a difference on that stuff.  But that is another story.)  An older expat who already made their money either here or back home and is now coasting along for 5 or so years till retirement is a different story. 

China will still be unappealing to some no matter what just like Korea was at one time.  Those of us who took the "risk" to come here when it wasn't well known definitely were risk takers.  In 2022, no teacher coming here now is a "risk taker"  Except for recruiters fluffing up the "money" you can make here, most that come seem to already know about Korea unlike those who came over in the past.  So, there is that different demographic.  Sadly, more and more people are in a debt shithole due to teachers pushing kids in school and also due to schools not teaching enough practical skills meaning it's harder to get certain types of jobs.  Universities should be overturned and made into a partial tech school with more classes, more practice, and more practical skills teaching in addition to the "electives".  This would make them more marketable.  Either way, the quicker debt repayment Korea once offered has evaporated.  China is the new Korea.  3 to 5 million won a month.  Easy to send home at least 2500 USD a month.  IN fact with inflation Korea once allowed you to send home around 2000 USD equivalent in today's money.  What now?  500 living comfortably?  800 being really cheap and frugal?  When I say 2000 USD in todays money, you could send more if you were really frugal.  (more like 1500 in that time's money). 

I have also had discussions with a few foreign hakwon owners who like the Koreans have become too complacent and developed shitty attitudes just because they think they can.  They can afford to pay more but don't.  Tells me what I need to know about a lot of people's character.  Making 20 plus million won a month and spending and extra 1.5 million won a month to split between the Korean and foreign English teachers to give them both a fair wage is not too difficult.  Especially where they are charging a lot more money.  They claim "expenses" then clam up when I ask them what expenses.  A lot of them have really shown a very flippant entitled attitude like "how dare you ask for a livjng wage".  It's my right to "pay you low".  I ain't no Marxist tear it down, but this really condescending "know your station in life" arrogant attitude coming off some of these foreign hakwon owners when you mention the pay is too low is a real eye opener.  So, I am sure it is similar amongst Korean owners too.

That said, to the credit of some, there are some academies that do pay upper 2.0's and low 3.0's and some ASAP offers with documents ready, you may be able to push for a higher wage.  But nod your head to the recruiter and pretend to like it.  Then when speaking to the actual owner or manager, put your wage demands out there.  If they are desperate to fill it you may pull off a wage hike.  But you may have to be prepared to be unemployed for a while to get what you want.  There are some options still here, but foreigners have to stick together more and the problem is they don't. 

Of course, if an academy has like 4 hour days with 4 teaching hours and you actually don't have to be there other than teaching, that may be okay for lower pay.  If you get 2.1 or 2.2 for a low hour come in at 1 and go home at 5 type of place, that can be acceptable.  So, wages don't have to be high in every case.  But when some teachers say they are working 45 hours a week both teaching hours and other work outside the classroom for 2.1 to 2.3, that is pure bs.  Pay really needs to be mid 3.0's for that.  At some point, people will finally say they've had enough. 

As for me pay was okay till recently, most of my schools were not too strict until a year or so ago, and I do like the kids for the most part.  My situation is different.  But inflation and declining work conditions are coming for me too.  If you are close to retirement then it is easy to stay and ride it out.  I still have a long way to retirement myself. 



Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: D.L.Orean on July 01, 2022, 10:11:34 am
While Corona is still going on and winding down along with the lockdowns, not so great........

Remember

you don't get to equate your situation to theirs.

The reasons people didn't want to go to China before covid and won't want to go long after covid is finished are unrelated to money.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: StillInKorea on July 01, 2022, 10:12:58 am
Now is this hogwan association a mafia or something?  I mean are they all forced into things?

The Hagwon Association operates training courses on behalf of education offices. Hagwon owners, Korean hagwon teachers, and native speakers working at hagwons all have to go to their meetings once a year.

My hagwon received a letter this year about the mandatory meeting. They made it sound like you have to pay 100,000KRW to attend. A Korean teacher called them to check and told them that they were being recorded, at which point they admitted there was no required fee. They still tried to trick us into going to their office to 'pre-register', presumably in the hope of selling us an association membership.

At the meeting, they try again to push you into paying 100,000 to join their association, implying but never explicitly stating that the fee is mandatory. The truth is that attending the meeting they hold is mandatory, but joining their association is not. They try very hard to blur the lines.

The 'training' they provide, which is supposed to inform hagwon owners of legal requirements and responsibilities, is more focused on promoting their association. There's also choice information about things like getting out of severance payments by paying employees a slightly different salary each month.

Hagwon owners are mostly not the slimy people everyone thinks they are. The problem is the Hagwon Association.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: hangook77 on July 01, 2022, 10:53:08 am
The Hagwon Association operates training courses on behalf of education offices. Hagwon owners, Korean hagwon teachers, and native speakers working at hagwons all have to go to their meetings once a year.

My hagwon received a letter this year about the mandatory meeting. They made it sound like you have to pay 100,000KRW to attend. A Korean teacher called them to check and told them that they were being recorded, at which point they admitted there was no required fee. They still tried to trick us into going to their office to 'pre-register', presumably in the hope of selling us an association membership.

At the meeting, they try again to push you into paying 100,000 to join their association, implying but never explicitly stating that the fee is mandatory. The truth is that attending the meeting they hold is mandatory, but joining their association is not. They try very hard to blur the lines.

The 'training' they provide, which is supposed to inform hagwon owners of legal requirements and responsibilities, is more focused on promoting their association. There's also choice information about things like getting out of severance payments by paying employees a slightly different salary each month.

Hagwon owners are mostly not the slimy people everyone thinks they are. The problem is the Hagwon Association.

Why do you have to attend a hagwon association?  Is it a government mandate?  Is it a mafia, come or we break your legs?  I am still confused.  I had a friend run one years ago and never mentioned anything about this group.  Is it new?  What makes it mandatory?  Is it some collusion information session?  Who makes them join?  Sounds like a touch of communism to me.  A free enterprise business must be free to do what it wants in these regards. 
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: hangook77 on July 01, 2022, 10:55:49 am
Remember

The reasons people didn't want to go to China before covid and won't want to go long after covid is finished are unrelated to money.

No, lots were leaving Korea and going over a few years ago.  I knew so many who left Korea behind to go over.  They said they liked it though the pollution did suck.  The pay wasn't even what it is now. 

Yes, there are a few rich kids who have no loans to repay and a few older expats who already made their money and are waiting for retirement.  There are a few who also got married here and their spouse won't let them live elsewhere.  But most are not in these situations even though every situation is different. 
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Kyndo on July 01, 2022, 11:44:40 am
Even more people are *not* going over to China because they have moral reservations about working in a country that is actively perpetuating it's own version of ethnic cleansing, is following aggressive military expansion of its borders, and is gearing up for economic warfare with... well... basically "the West".

Money is nice, but for many of us -- including those of us who aren't particularly well off economically -- there are more important things in life than earning a few extra bucks.

Finally, as has been frequently discussed in earlier threads, there are still *plenty* of economic opportunities in Korea if one has the will to search them out. There is *no* reason why somebody whose primary reason for living in Korea is money should be making less than 3 or 4 million won a month, especially if they've been here for more than a handful of years already.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: jaehak on July 01, 2022, 11:54:19 am
The truth is that attending the meeting they hold is mandatory

Maybe it's changed, but I was told it was "mandatory" at the 3 hagwons I worked at in Seoul over 5 years (2007-2012) and I never once went. There were zero repercussions. No docked pay, no verbal or written warning, not a curt word from management, and in fact I was renewed or offered renewals at each of these hagwons. I did go to the EPIK ones, but those were held during normal working hours and transpo was re-imbursed.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: D.L.Orean on July 01, 2022, 11:55:30 am
No, lots were leaving Korea and going over a few years ago.  I knew so many who left Korea behind to go over.  They said they liked it though the pollution did suck.  The pay wasn't even what it is now.

Yes, there are a few rich kids who have no loans to repay and a few older expats who already made their money and are waiting for retirement.  There are a few who also got married here and their spouse won't let them live elsewhere.  But most are not in these situations even though every situation is different.

Most people were not leaving for China. Most people do not want to go to China. And it is unrelated to money, or Korean spouses.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: hangook77 on July 01, 2022, 12:07:57 pm
Even more people are *not* going over to China because they have moral reservations about working in a country that is actively perpetuating it's own version of ethnic cleansing, is following aggressive military expansion of its borders, and is gearing up for economic warfare with... well... basically "the West".

Money is nice, but for many of us -- including those of us who aren't particularly well off economically -- there are more important things in life than earning a few extra bucks.

Finally, as has been frequently discussed in earlier threads, there are still *plenty* of economic opportunities in Korea if one has the will to search them out. There is *no* reason why somebody whose primary reason for living in Korea is money should be making less than 3 or 4 million won a month, especially if they've been here for more than a handful of years already.

I'm just telling you lots of folks went over and liked it.  Folks went over for ease of contracts and money going further.  Pay was closer to the same at the time.  Plenty of things not to like in many countries.  They'll do them whether you are there or not.  If you want to stay here and be poor, that is your right.  The point is if more teachers don't move onto other countries or go for things back home where ever the money is then Korea will never smarten up.  Maybe at some point enough teachers here will get sick of the falling wages and get off their duff and go do something about it. 

As for people being killed mistreated, how many Africans and Native Americans got exploited by European powers?  How many killed and how many traded as forced slaves?  What China is and is not doing is not going to take a credible lecture from most western countries with their own histories.  Even though I am against Communism in the traditional sense.  But it is Korea that has adopted the old Commie saying "we pretend to pay them."  Well part of that saying, anyways. 

Some folks will stay and be paid less no matter what.  It was the same when I looked into coming over here.  It was the China at the time where you could make good money.  Had some call center buddies bitching about low pay, harassment from student loans and their lawyers, and working in jobs they hated after going to school.  (Those were the only jobs available in my area.)  I said go to Korea and make more money.  They said, like many teachers here now: "No, we'll stay here and work for less and be poor."  I said: "Okay, suit yourself." 

A few enterprising friend who didn't like making only 2.1 to 2.3 a few years back jumped to China for more pay.  I was making more so had less incentive then to do so.  Some stay where they are due to no gumption.  That is their wish.  A couple of folks back home still doing the same old things grumbling about life.  That is their choice if they don't want to change circumstances and move onto something more.  It is the same choice for those making low pay who want to stay here now.  Fill your boots. 

Most jobs are not paying 4 million won a month in spite of what you said.  Also cost of living is too high now.  Much harder to save compared to the past if you are going to start your own school. 

Otherwise you can tell me how you got to making 4 million won a month.  I am over 3 myself though.  But I am at the ceiling. 
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: hangook77 on July 01, 2022, 12:10:58 pm
Most people were not leaving for China. Most people do not want to go to China. And it is unrelated to money, or Korean spouses.

No they were.  They told me so and showed me their pics in China.  They did complain about the pollution sometimes though.  But they also had some nice travel pics from around China.  Much more diverse landscape too.  Some also went back home as the economy got better and jobs began to open up pre covid.  When I post something related to pay or wages on local Facebook groups and get more than 100 likes does show most foreigners are getting pissed and word is slowly spreading.  For years it was spread the money was good here so folks kept coming over.  Now word is slowly spreading the other way. 
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: D.L.Orean on July 01, 2022, 12:13:18 pm
No they were.  They told me so and showed me their pics in China.  They did complain about the pollution sometimes though.  But they also had some nice travel pics from around China.  Much more diverse landscape too.  Some also went back home as the economy got better and jobs began to open up pre covid.  When I post something related to pay or wages on local Facebook groups and get more than 100 likes does show most foreigners are getting pissed and word is slowly spreading.  For years it was spread the money was good here so folks kept coming over.  Now word is slowly spreading the other way.

I don't think you understand the word 'most'
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Renma on July 01, 2022, 12:42:31 pm
I have also had discussions with a few foreign hakwon owners who like the Koreans have become too complacent and developed shitty attitudes just because they think they can.  They can afford to pay more but don't.  Tells me what I need to know about a lot of people's character.  Making 20 plus million won a month and spending and extra 1.5 million won a month to split between the Korean and foreign English teachers to give them both a fair wage is not too difficult.  Especially where they are charging a lot more money.  They claim "expenses" then clam up when I ask them what expenses.  A lot of them have really shown a very flippant entitled attitude like "how dare you ask for a livjng wage".  It's my right to "pay you low".  I ain't no Marxist tear it down, but this really condescending "know your station in life" arrogant attitude coming off some of these foreign hakwon owners when you mention the pay is too low is a real eye opener.  So, I am sure it is similar amongst Korean owners too.

Most of them only own a hagwon because they married a local (and often it's the spouse who owns and runs the hagwon), so the elitist attitude is amusing among these types.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Kyndo on July 01, 2022, 01:04:27 pm
Otherwise you can tell me how you got to making 4 million won a month.  I am over 3 myself though.  But I am at the ceiling. 
    When you are saying that you are capped, what you mean is that you have reached the *highest basic pay scale*. There are definitely a number of threads where there has been discussion on ways to significantly  increase one's EPIK income without breaking terms of contract etc!
It takes a bit of networking, and a bit of luck, and definitely talking to the right people, but it *is* possible to make around 4 million a month without killing yourself, especially if you've lived here for more than a couple of years.

I'm just telling you lots of folks went over and liked it.
Oh. Well, *that* I won't argue with.  :smiley:
 I thought you were insinuating that China was the *objectively* better choice for ESL. "Chacun a son gout" very much applies!
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Bakeacake on July 01, 2022, 01:17:34 pm
Hankook,   you have been told this many ways, from many different people.  so ill be a simple and clear as possible because it seems that it hasnt gotten to you via other methods.

No one here wants to go to China to teach.

Please stop advocating for it.

their reasons are mostly due to; government oversight, human rights abuses, current cultural genocide,

their reasons are not due to; money.

again. please stop advocating for china. if you want to go there, please do.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: hangook77 on July 01, 2022, 01:22:05 pm
Hankook,   you have been told this many ways, from many different people.  so ill be a simple and clear as possible because it seems that it hasnt gotten to you via other methods.

No one here wants to go to China to teach.

Please stop advocating for it.

their reasons are mostly due to; government oversight, human rights abuses, current cultural genocide,

their reasons are not due to; money.

again. please stop advocating for china. if you want to go there, please do.

I didn't advocate for it.  I just said there are options other than Korea.  There's more than one option. 

You are always complaining about the wages here.  How is that working out for you?  Did you get a pay raise yet? 
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: hangook77 on July 01, 2022, 01:28:53 pm
    When you are saying that you are capped, what you mean is that you have reached the *highest basic pay scale*. There are definitely a number of threads where there has been discussion on ways to significantly  increase one's EPIK income without breaking terms of contract etc!
It takes a bit of networking, and a bit of luck, and definitely talking to the right people, but it *is* possible to make around 4 million a month without killing yourself, especially if you've lived here for more than a couple of years.
Oh. Well, *that* I won't argue with.  :smiley:
 I thought you were insinuating that China was the *objectively* better choice for ESL. "Chacun a son gout" very much applies!

I do get extra pay and do some extra work.  But that's still no excuse not raising the base pay.  Current EPIK pay levels were last adjusted in 2009.  I'd say it's time.  But if folks stay in Korea and cling to it for dear life, they may not go up.  That's their choice.  Just saying there is higher pay out there in ESL and in other jobs nowadays.  Getting extra work and working more hours is still a cop out for them for not increasing the pay and that is the point.  I make better than most but I still believe wages should go up for the 2.1 to 2.5ers. 

As for better place, depends on where you live and what you are looking for.  China is a large country.  A backwards rural region not so hot.  A coastal Tier 2 city might give the biggest bang for ones buck.  Shenzhen seems to have the worst contracts with lowest pay.  Kind of like Korea a little bit in the bad contracts and pay.  Anyways, plenty of option I guess. 

I never told you to go there.  But some foreigners have been shocked by the pay levels nowadays and really didn't know about it when I posted online.   
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: hangook77 on July 01, 2022, 01:30:17 pm
Even more people are *not* going over to China because they have moral reservations about working in a country that is actively perpetuating it's own version of ethnic cleansing, is following aggressive military expansion of its borders, and is gearing up for economic warfare with... well... basically "the West".

Money is nice, but for many of us -- including those of us who aren't particularly well off economically -- there are more important things in life than earning a few extra bucks.

Finally, as has been frequently discussed in earlier threads, there are still *plenty* of economic opportunities in Korea if one has the will to search them out. There is *no* reason why somebody whose primary reason for living in Korea is money should be making less than 3 or 4 million won a month, especially if they've been here for more than a handful of years already.

How many native Americans did Spain kill in Latin America?  Are folks not going to teach in Spain now? 
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Kyndo on July 01, 2022, 01:37:49 pm
How many native Americans did Spain kill in Latin America?  Are folks not going to teach in Spain now? 
Are the Spanish still *currently* conducting this genocide, or did this happen several hundred years ago under very different political/social/moral/theological conditions?

The CCP of today is *right at this very moment* spending immense amounts of money and human resources to eradicate cultural minorities in its hinterlands.

If you have trouble understanding why so many people seem reluctant to work in a country that offers more money to ESL teachers than Korea does, then I urge you to give this wiki a quick skim:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide

Combine this with a surveillance state government that places very stringent limits on free speech, and it's a wonder that so many people *do* actually go to work in China.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Bakeacake on July 01, 2022, 01:50:50 pm
I didn't advocate for it.  I just said there are options other than Korea.  There's more than one option. 

You are always complaining about the wages here.  How is that working out for you?  Did you get a pay raise yet? 

I make 4.5 mil a month.
I am given a 2 bedroom apartment to live in
I dont include the cost of the apartment in my salary.
I dont work on weekends.
And I am not being watched by any government agency
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Augustiner on July 01, 2022, 03:08:29 pm
I didn't advocate for it. 

You didn't advocate it?!!!  Well, now you've just nudged VanIslander's "Sandra Bullock's career faded away after Speed 2" into second place for this week's most outlandish post.  Advocating for people to go work in China has been your absolute obsession on here. 

And I love that after saying this "you don't get to equate your situation to theirs" you're still going around putting everyone in your shoes, except for the odd rich kid and waygook retiree. 
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: hangook77 on July 01, 2022, 03:22:50 pm
You didn't advocate it?!!!  Well, now you've just nudged VanIslander's "Sandra Bullock's career faded away after Speed 2" into second place for this week's most outlandish post.  Advocating for people to go work in China has been your absolute obsession on here. 

And I love that after saying this "you don't get to equate your situation to theirs" you're still going around putting everyone in your shoes, except for the odd rich kid and waygook retiree. 

I said China was paying good money and that many young teachers when they realize how much they've been ripped off will go for better pay and contracts.  But I never told you to personally go to China.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Bakeacake on July 01, 2022, 04:30:31 pm
suggestion. 

make a new forum where its just titled, "Hankook talks about china"

and anytime you want to mention the word china, you can type it out in there.  that way you dont have to add it in to every single comment about wages, or housing, or cost of living, or truckers, or Qanon, or anything else.  it can be a little safe space for just you to scream into the void about how much you love china.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: L I on July 01, 2022, 05:22:21 pm
I make 4.5 mil a month.

Impressive! How'd you pull that off?
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Bakeacake on July 01, 2022, 07:14:17 pm
Impressive! How'd you pull that off?

ive worked for a hagwon for 5 years consistently and earn 3 mil there,   (2-7pm, or 2-830pm some days)  I also work a kinder, legally with my bosses permission from 10am-12pm for an additional 1.5.

its a long day, but its worth it to bank all the extra cash.  its also not far of travel at all and all of the people I work with are spectacular.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: StillInKorea on July 01, 2022, 09:19:24 pm
Why do you have to attend a hagwon association?  Is it a government mandate?  Is it a mafia, come or we break your legs?  I am still confused.  I had a friend run one years ago and never mentioned anything about this group.  Is it new?  What makes it mandatory?  Is it some collusion information session?  Who makes them join?  Sounds like a touch of communism to me.  A free enterprise business must be free to do what it wants in these regards. 

The government mandates training sessions (meetings) and outsources them to the Hagwon Association. The Hagwon Association then reports people who don't attend to the education office. The education office punishes the hagwon with points on its licence. Get too many points and your licence is suspended/cancelled.

The meetings are supposed to teach hagwon owners and employees how to follow rules and regulations. In reality, the owners' meeting is more about how wonderful the Hagwon Association is, and how to screw over your employees.

Maybe it's changed, but I was told it was "mandatory" at the 3 hagwons I worked at in Seoul over 5 years (2007-2012) and I never once went. There were zero repercussions. No docked pay, no verbal or written warning, not a curt word from management, and in fact I was renewed or offered renewals at each of these hagwons. I did go to the EPIK ones, but those were held during normal working hours and transpo was re-imbursed.

I called the local education office. They said it was mandatory. This was an owners' meeting and not one of the famous "don't inject marijuana" NET meetings.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: KoreaBoo on July 02, 2022, 12:53:10 am
2.1 is soon to be minimum wage levels.

http://m.kwnews.co.kr/nview.asp?s=501&aid=222062900149


2.1M a month is poverty. 

It is even lower after your deductions.  I don't include garbage housing as a benefit.  But if you are netting 1.8-1.9M a month after taxes, that is less than 24k a year in Canada or under 20k a year in the U.S.

Truly disgusting.

If you are one of these people who after studying for years to get a degree, and accept such an insulting offer, you only cheapen your value in the eyes of your current and future employers.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: L I on July 02, 2022, 05:59:29 am
2.1M a month is $19,392 a year in USD.

1.9M a month is $17,556 a year in USD.

1.8 M a month is $16,620 a year in USD.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 02, 2022, 09:43:28 am
I see people debating working in China. What you guys need to understand is that while monthly salaries are higher, and top jobs are much easier to get, a lot of places won't pay you if there is a lockdown and the students can't study online. I know people who have lost up to 12 months of income in the last two years.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: StillInKorea on July 02, 2022, 10:14:16 am
2.1M a month is poverty. 

It is even lower after your deductions.  I don't include garbage housing as a benefit.  But if you are netting 1.8-1.9M a month after taxes, that is less than 24k a year in Canada or under 20k a year in the U.S.

Truly disgusting.

If you are one of these people who after studying for years to get a degree, and accept such an insulting offer, you only cheapen your value in the eyes of your current and future employers.

So you're going to compare salary after deductions in Korea with salary before deductions in America? What?

And you're not including housing as a benefit because you don't feel like it. People who don't like provided housing just take housing allowance, bumping up their salary by 300-400k.

What's next? Are you not including the value of health insurance because you don't like doctors who eat kimchi?

At least be honest in your comparisons.

Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: KoreaBoo on July 02, 2022, 11:54:59 pm
So you're going to compare salary after deductions in Korea with salary before deductions in America? What?

And you're not including housing as a benefit because you don't feel like it. People who don't like provided housing just take housing allowance, bumping up their salary by 300-400k.

What's next? Are you not including the value of health insurance because you don't like doctors who eat kimchi?

At least be honest in your comparisons.



Yes.  I can do that because I wanted to.  People do not really think about their gross, it's their net that they are most concerned with.

For example, I make about $94k/yr gross, but I keep about 69% of it after my deductions.  You see what I mean?  5.32M a month is what I have to play with.  It's not that hard to do.

As for housing, it is only a real benefit if it adds to your life.  I don't think the shit housing offered to people here offers anything of value other than checking off a box.  If they gave you a new 32 pyeong place that was clean and in a nice area, sure..but not the shitboxes that are offered to most places (that means...no roaches).

I don't include health insurance because I'm Canadian.  I know for Americans the health insurance is far more valuable since you cannot afford it back home, but for me and my spouse, we do not worry at all about medical expenses.

From the looks of it,  you are poor if you make that much money.  If you want to glamorize the shit housing you are given, then I do truly feel sorry for you. 

Stay in Korea and feel glamorous.  The rest of us will make you an afterthought in a short period.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: grimlock2 on July 03, 2022, 08:58:16 am
Quote


  The rest of us will make you an afterthought in a short period.   

Well, it's been a few years now and no sign of it yet   :smiley:
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: StillInKorea on July 03, 2022, 09:46:00 am
Yes.  I can do that because I wanted to.  People do not really think about their gross, it's their net that they are most concerned with.

For example, I make about $94k/yr gross, but I keep about 69% of it after my deductions.  You see what I mean?  5.32M a month is what I have to play with.  It's not that hard to do.

As for housing, it is only a real benefit if it adds to your life.  I don't think the shit housing offered to people here offers anything of value other than checking off a box.  If they gave you a new 32 pyeong place that was clean and in a nice area, sure..but not the shitboxes that are offered to most places (that means...no roaches).

I don't include health insurance because I'm Canadian.  I know for Americans the health insurance is far more valuable since you cannot afford it back home, but for me and my spouse, we do not worry at all about medical expenses.

From the looks of it,  you are poor if you make that much money.  If you want to glamorize the shit housing you are given, then I do truly feel sorry for you. 

Stay in Korea and feel glamorous.  The rest of us will make you an afterthought in a short period.

You still don't get the point about your comparison. Why do you compare net in one country with gross in another?

Employer-provided housing is crap around the world, so you should take the housing allowance.

Why do you quote American figures for comparison and then suddenly discount health insurance because you're Canadian?

Your argument is confused at best, but seems intentionally misleading.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: studybuddy on July 06, 2022, 10:30:08 am
I'll say that a year in post-COVID Korea on the EPIK salary at 2.0m/month living a low quality apartment has completely disillusioned me from living here. I have no idea what the people talking about improved quality of life are on. It's incomparable to my home country and not in a good way - and what I send home (~600,000won a month, all I can afford to) turns to peanuts.

When I agreed to renew it was purely for travel reasons and I will be breaking my contract when I'm satisfied. What have I got to lose? Well, no renewal bonus since it was cut. 5 days of renewal vacation I guess. It's not worth it.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: hangook77 on July 07, 2022, 12:06:07 pm
I'll say that a year in post-COVID Korea on the EPIK salary at 2.0m/month living a low quality apartment has completely disillusioned me from living here. I have no idea what the people talking about improved quality of life are on. It's incomparable to my home country and not in a good way - and what I send home (~600,000won a month, all I can afford to) turns to peanuts.

When I agreed to renew it was purely for travel reasons and I will be breaking my contract when I'm satisfied. What have I got to lose? Well, no renewal bonus since it was cut. 5 days of renewal vacation I guess. It's not worth it.

It was good money in the past due to the very cheap living cost and the good exchange rate.

When I got here 2 million won was $2100 USD.  You could easily live off 4 or 5 hundred thousand won a month or less.  With taxes and bills assuming 2.1 back then, at least 1.4 million sent home which would be nearly 1500 USD per month that you could get when you sent money home.  With inflation, that would be like getting 2000 USD in your account in 2022 money.  (Or close to it.)  Anyways, what was once true and was being told by recruiters is still being told by recruiters even though they know it's no longer true.  many of them are ethically challenged.  Plus all the hogwans use to pay round trip flight isntead of one way flight.  Get one months severance at the end.  2.1 minus tax.  !.85 million or so.  Subtract 1.5 for one way air ticket.  Your severance is gone.  You use to get that in extra cash to take home.  Also assuming 1000 won is 1 dollar is wrong and leads to bad assumptions and incorrect budgeting.  The cost of inflation and drop in exchange rate means you should be making over 3 million in 2022 and probably over 3.5 million  to equal the saving and spending power of prior generations of ESL teachers 10 to 12 or more years ago.  Same salaries but went much much further.  Korea is convenient to hide out during covid but after that for many who knows?  Jobs back home may pay more or let you save more if you can live with the folks for a couple of years.  There is China and Vietnam which pay much more but better to wait another year or so after covid and lock-downs done, etc.  The Middle East if you have a formal classroom TESOL and esl experience can pay well but I hear not as well as in the past.  For just a Bachelor's degree, China is probably the best deal - quite high salaries.  But I would wait until covid and the nonsense lockdowns are done though.  I am hearing it is possible to get in now without requiring a "PU letter" now.  Some jobs hiring from outside may pay lower for a year but once in country after a year can really clean up for pay.  Like 25 or 30 to 35 thousand rmb.  (4 to 6 million Korean won)  Check the Facebook ESL groups and do your own research.  Vietnam similar pay to Korea and sometimes less, but cheaper living cost.  Korea ain't the only gig in town in spite of a few bitter long term souls on here claiming otherwise.

When I agreed to renew it was purely for travel reasons and I will be breaking my contract when I'm satisfied. What have I got to lose? Well, no renewal bonus since it was cut. 5 days of renewal vacation I guess. It's not worth it.

PS  Spread the word about the truth here.  It's fake news.



For context in 2022.

2 million won = 1,538.48 USD

For context 2008 before the crash

2 million won = 2100 USD




Please make sure when or if you break the contract you do give them feedback on the pay and the dumpy one room.  They need to hear that more and more.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: jaehak on July 07, 2022, 03:49:25 pm
It was good money in the past due to the very cheap living cost and the good exchange rate.

For context in 2022.

2 million won = 1,538.48 USD

For context 2008 before the crash

2 million won = 2100 USD


It's actually even nuttier than this. In 2007 I made 2.2 as a n00b. 2.2 was 2361 USD. 2361 2007 dollars is $3281 currently. $3281 USD is about 4.3 mil in won. 2.2 in 2007 is very close to half what it is now.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: grimlock2 on July 07, 2022, 05:42:54 pm
I made around 3.5 back in 2005 which was around 1800 pounds. Made 7.5 million this month which is 4,800.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 07, 2022, 07:34:21 pm
For those of you considering China, beware of who you work for. A lot of schools couldn't operate during the Shanghai lockdown and the staff just didn't get paid. Also, start-up costs can be prohibitive with airfares being what they are. Not saying it's a bad idea. Just don't get too tempted by high salaries because things might not materialize and it can take a few months to break even.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: waygo0k on July 08, 2022, 07:31:39 am
In China, don't work for:

*a private stand-alone kindergarten
*a training centre
*a recruiter who will "rent" you out to other schools and training centres (this happens legally!!)

The overwhelming majority of people who had pay issues during the lockdowns were in one of the above situations.  The rest who were in full international schools, properly licensed private schools with international programs, public schools etc...either got full pay or 70%+ pay.

There's more than enough information on international programs in China to have an idea of the kind of school you might be working for. A little bit of homework goes a long way.

Common resources include:

-ISR (International Schools Review) https://www.internationalschoolsreview.com

-Forbes China International School Ranking https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/R_BuUF65ouwWfrJloTSvKw

-Hurun https://www.hurun.net/en-US/Info/Detail?num=WO7GMLBMJQCU
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Kyndo on July 08, 2022, 07:45:57 am
+1
Quality post. Thanks waygo0k.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: waygo0k on July 09, 2022, 08:43:56 pm
Youíre welcome ;)
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: KoreaBoo on July 10, 2022, 12:22:02 pm
It's actually even nuttier than this. In 2007 I made 2.2 as a n00b. 2.2 was 2361 USD. 2361 2007 dollars is $3281 currently. $3281 USD is about 4.3 mil in won. 2.2 in 2007 is very close to half what it is now.

It is very sad to see people who put so much time into a career end up with next to nothing.   You cannot survive on $1600 USD a month.  It is a complete and total embarrassment both for the school that offers so little and the instructor who is willing to accept such a low offer.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Mr C on July 10, 2022, 01:37:14 pm
It is very sad to see people who put so much time into a career end up with next to nothing.   You cannot survive on $1600 USD a month.  It is a complete and total embarrassment both for the school that offers so little and the instructor who is willing to accept such a low offer.

I won't disagree that such a wage is an embarrassment--and a job I would never recommend, but you can certainly "survive" on $1600 a month, assuming they provide housing (which is a fair assumption).  Take out deductions plus $200 for utilities, that leaves $40 a day.  Unless you're drinking a lot and eating out all the time, that is survivable.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 10, 2022, 02:36:14 pm
I am curious what kind of person comes to Korea to teach ESL these days. At $1,600 why even bother?
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: HiddenInKorea on July 10, 2022, 02:57:40 pm
It is very sad to see people who put so much time into a career end up with next to nothing.   You cannot survive on $1600 USD a month.  It is a complete and total embarrassment both for the school that offers so little and the instructor who is willing to accept such a low offer.

Korea in general is an embarrassment. It's still very much a developing country that is only good for the rich chaebols and livable for those who secure long-term government positions that allow one to continue working until the retirement age of 62 and provide a life-long stable pension.
Korea is the size of a booger, and similarly to Japan, it doesn't have many natural resources, and therefore, it is mostly reliant on human resources, which is a highly educated and skilled workforce, especially in engineering, to survive.  English was and still is considered one of those necessary skills for the workforce, and for the country to get ahead during this time of globalization. So the country started out paying big wages 20 years ago, but thanks to the corrupt nature of Korean business culture, and the growing popularity in the West, the government and the private sector are just pushing it to see how low they can go until people will no longer accept the offers.

At this point, it has been realized that the demographic for these ESL jobs consists of mostly young graduates 20 ~ 25-year-olds who want to travel and have a short-term cultural experience, so they are slowly pushing these jobs into the category of "luxurious internships,".  A young person who has just finished living with roommates or sharing a dorm will gladly accept free private accommodation provided "rent-free" by the employer, as getting something like that back home would cost them close to a grand back home. Wages should definitely be pushed up, but it seems that Koreans are not willing to part with their money. They want the supply of English teachers for the demand amongst the parents, but are unwilling to compensate! 

Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: HiddenInKorea on July 10, 2022, 02:58:49 pm
I am curious what kind of person comes to Korea to teach ESL these days. At $1,600 why even bother?

A young college graduate, who has rich parents, and basically just wants to have a fun cultural experience and meet their dream K-oppa or K-nuna.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: HiddenInKorea on July 10, 2022, 03:06:18 pm
ive worked for a hagwon for 5 years consistently and earn 3 mil there,   (2-7pm, or 2-830pm some days)  I also work a kinder, legally with my bosses permission from 10am-12pm for an additional 1.5.

its a long day, but its worth it to bank all the extra cash.  its also not far of travel at all and all of the people I work with are spectacular.

Can I ask if you've been at an independent run Hakwon or a bigger chain? How did you negotiate a raise up to 3.0 million? Does your Hakwon let you teach the test-prep courses?
I've heard of Gyopos making up to 4.0 ~ 4.5 million a month, but they get the bilingual positions teaching the test-prep and college prep courses.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 10, 2022, 08:09:03 pm
Five years at a hagwons Jesus Christ  :shocked:
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Mr C on July 10, 2022, 10:27:14 pm
Korea in general is an embarrassment. It's still very much a developing country that is only good for the rich chaebols and livable for those who secure long-term government positions that allow one to continue working until the retirement age of 62 and provide a life-long stable pension.
Korea is the size of a booger, and similarly to Japan, it doesn't have many natural resources, and therefore, it is mostly reliant on human resources, which is a highly educated and skilled workforce, especially in engineering, to survive.  English was and still is considered one of those necessary skills for the workforce, and for the country to get ahead during this time of globalization. So the country started out paying big wages 20 years ago, but thanks to the corrupt nature of Korean business culture, and the growing popularity in the West, the government and the private sector are just pushing it to see how low they can go until people will no longer accept the offers.

At this point, it has been realized that the demographic for these ESL jobs consists of mostly young graduates 20 ~ 25-year-olds who want to travel and have a short-term cultural experience, so they are slowly pushing these jobs into the category of "luxurious internships,".  A young person who has just finished living with roommates or sharing a dorm will gladly accept free private accommodation provided "rent-free" by the employer, as getting something like that back home would cost them close to a grand back home. Wages should definitely be pushed up, but it seems that Koreans are not willing to part with their money. They want the supply of English teachers for the demand amongst the parents, but are unwilling to compensate! 



Not to defend it--believe me!--but I'm pretty sure this is called capitalism.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 10, 2022, 10:48:13 pm
Are there no other countries that need ESL teachers? Maybe the Former Soviet Republic of Bulimia or something
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: hangook77 on July 11, 2022, 12:09:46 pm
For those of you considering China, beware of who you work for. A lot of schools couldn't operate during the Shanghai lockdown and the staff just didn't get paid. Also, start-up costs can be prohibitive with airfares being what they are. Not saying it's a bad idea. Just don't get too tempted by high salaries because things might not materialize and it can take a few months to break even.

For sure, that is why it is better to wait till some of this covid nonsense settles down.  I have said that repeatedly. 
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: hangook77 on July 11, 2022, 12:14:04 pm
I won't disagree that such a wage is an embarrassment--and a job I would never recommend, but you can certainly "survive" on $1600 a month, assuming they provide housing (which is a fair assumption).  Take out deductions plus $200 for utilities, that leaves $40 a day.  Unless you're drinking a lot and eating out all the time, that is survivable.

A young person with student loans to pay off and or other debts to pay back home, you most certainly cannot. 

This pay will let you get by with a little more if you spend most of the money in Korea and have little to no savings nor have to send any or much money home.  Also, don't count on severance at the end because most employers no longer pay the flight home.  So, a 2.1 million severance, you will give away 1.5 million or more to pay the flight home.  Before you use to pocket that extra money.  Plus it is also taxed.  So, you may get 2 or 3 hundred thousand won left over for that. 
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 11, 2022, 12:21:59 pm
For sure, that is why it is better to wait till some of this covid nonsense settles down.  I have said that repeatedly.

The Covid nonsense isn't going to settle down in China until all of the elderly antivaxxers have died off.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: D.L.Orean on July 11, 2022, 12:26:39 pm
The Covid nonsense isn't going to settle down in China until all of the elderly antivaxxers have died off.

What's the likelihood that China will want all foreign teachers to be vaccinated? Is that something that could possibly become a requirement for anyone who wants to move there?
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: hangook77 on July 11, 2022, 12:27:26 pm
It's actually even nuttier than this. In 2007 I made 2.2 as a n00b. 2.2 was 2361 USD. 2361 2007 dollars is $3281 currently. $3281 USD is about 4.3 mil in won. 2.2 in 2007 is very close to half what it is now.

Yes, I guess you are right.  This shows how good the pay was and how low it is now.  More of us should spread the word through the different forums, Facebook groups, Reddit, etc.  Let newbies know how much they are being ripped off.  Recruiters lie to them telling them it is good pay when it isn't.  It was once true but no longer is.  If more people refused to take the jobs here, wages would rise and fast. 

I was actually 1.9 my first year and 2.1 my second, 2.2 my third, then 2.5 my fourth (current EPIK pay scale kicked in - 2009), then sixth year 2.7.  (But ed offices had us do one school for a couple of years to avoid paying extra money.  Then, started with multiple schools and paying us the extra allowance, plus rural bonuses.  Then exchange rate got good for Canadians again around 2013 and 2014.  So, kept getting better and better for me until the end of the decade.  By 2019 and 2020, I started to notice fast rising costs and now the exchange rate for Canadians is down again.  Many of my 2.1 and 2.2 mil friend bailed a few years ago and went over to China.  I still felt pretty good as total pay was still low to mid 3s averaged out with bonses, rural allowance, extra teaching classes, etc.  I guess it is still kind of okay.  But inflation is coming for me too.  Thankfully, I did get my previous credit card debts and student loans and other things paid off.  I sure couldn't do it on 2.1 if I had to make that today.  But, it seems it has crept up on me again and is going back down but slower than what I like.  (Of course, I chose a larger apartment, to drive, etc.)  But the fast cost of living rise is eating into me too.  It already ate the salaries of thsoe in the low 2's quite a few years ago.  If I were 2.1, I would already be gone. 

But I was estimating that my 1.9 first year (level 3) salary would be like upper 2.0's today.  Of course my expenses are more namely apartment and car stuff, which I didn't have back then.  But a moldy old tiny one room wasn't so hot to live in at the time.  Education office nickled and dimed everything at the time and would pay no key money.  But, the flip side is they weren't very strict on things nor were my schools. 
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: hangook77 on July 11, 2022, 12:29:33 pm
The Covid nonsense isn't going to settle down in China until all of the elderly antivaxxers have died off.

China only recognizes their own vaccine anyways, I do believe.  So, as far as I know, either take their vaccine or one may not be needed?  Mandates slowly disappearing elsewhere and probably will in China eventually too.  This years party congress elections or whatever you call it is probably preventing any changes for now. 
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 11, 2022, 12:30:26 pm
What's the likelihood that China will want all foreign teachers to be vaccinated? Is that something that could possibly become a requirement for anyone who wants to move there?

It's more likely that vaccine mandates will be for everyone. They started in Beijing a few days ago. Apart from that, there's no vaccine mandate anywhere.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: hangook77 on July 11, 2022, 12:32:37 pm
It's more likely that vaccine mandates will be for everyone. They started in Beijing a few days ago.

But only theirs.  Western vaccines not recognized. 
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: D.L.Orean on July 11, 2022, 12:32:53 pm
2.7.

I still felt pretty good as total pay was still low to mid 3s averaged out with bonses, rural allowance, extra teaching classes, etc.

If this is how you calculate your paycheck, for comparison's sake, there is not a single person in the public school system on 2.1.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 11, 2022, 12:33:52 pm
But only theirs.  Western vaccines not recognized.

Yes that's correct. If you go to Beijing, you will need to get vaccinated with one of the Chinese vaccines.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Mr C on July 11, 2022, 12:58:55 pm
A young person with student loans to pay off and or other debts to pay back home, you most certainly cannot. 

This pay will let you get by with a little more if you spend most of the money in Korea and have little to no savings nor have to send any or much money home.  Also, don't count on severance at the end because most employers no longer pay the flight home.  So, a 2.1 million severance, you will give away 1.5 million or more to pay the flight home.  Before you use to pocket that extra money.  Plus it is also taxed.  So, you may get 2 or 3 hundred thousand won left over for that. 

The statement was that $1600 per month is not enough to survive on.

It might not be enough to pay off student debts, send money home or make substantial savings deposits, but it is definitely enough to survive on.

It's also not enough to retire to a Caribbean island, what's your point?
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 11, 2022, 01:40:20 pm
If you're a rich kid who just wants an experience and you're living off daddy dollars, then fair enough, but then why not choose Thailand?
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: grimlock2 on July 11, 2022, 02:23:35 pm
Posted by a hangook supporter on craiglist today

Quote
Take over my job. Won dropped. Canít afford to stay (Seoul)
compensation: 2.2
employment type: full-time
job title: English Teacher
It is with a sad heart that I must leave my job and life here in Seoul. I came here to live the Hallyu dream, only to find a stagnant life where prices have risen so much, while the won has dropped off of a cliff in value. I can no longer afford to live here, so I am breaking contract and seeking to find someone else. I am tired of skipping meals to get by. My school is good, and are kind souls, but can not afford to pay more. I am helping them find a new teacher.

The job is at a school in central Seoul. Pay is 2.2 per month, but as my cost of living have substantially increased this past year or two, you will likely need to supplement with side jobs to stay afloat. You will teach 25-30 hours per week, between about 8:30am and 6pm. 1BR efficiency apartment provided, but utilities are not paid (and have become quiet expensive). Pretty standard deal. You must stay at the school when not teaching during working hours, but are allowed away for lunch.

If you are American or British (no other countries will likely be hired, as the program already employs people of other countries) please msg me. You will need a BA/BS and a TEFL certification. You need to be eligible for an E-2 visa. You MUST have at least 2 years of experience. They only want to hire people in-country (although so many people seem to be leaving Korea due to the same reasons I have encountered, I think they will have to change this).
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Renma on July 11, 2022, 02:37:34 pm
Wow he's really selling that job haha. It sounds like a bog standard shitwon job, but what expenses is he running that he has to skip meals?? and 2.2m for an in-country with 2 years experience? Not much sympathy tbh, is living in downtown Seoul that crucial?

Anyway Hangook can add this to his repertoire of anecdotes from 'friends and others who message me'.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 11, 2022, 02:56:47 pm
But if there's a wrestling gym nearby I might be interested.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Augustiner on July 11, 2022, 02:56:59 pm
Posted by a hangook supporter on craiglist today

Posted by a Hangook supporter, or posted by Hangook.  That things reads as totally fake.  Basically, it's a great school but you won't be able to survive is the vibe of that posting.  I liked the Hallyu dream touch. Way too suspect.  That person is clearly trying to scare people off rather than find a replacement. 
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 11, 2022, 07:36:57 pm
No way the guy is skipping meals to get by. Not possible.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Renma on July 12, 2022, 08:41:53 am
Posted by a Hangook supporter, or posted by Hangook.  That things reads as totally fake.  Basically, it's a great school but you won't be able to survive is the vibe of that posting.  I liked the Hallyu dream touch. Way too suspect.  That person is clearly trying to scare people off rather than find a replacement. 

So hangook or hiddeninkorea then haha
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: HiddenInKorea on July 12, 2022, 10:27:27 am
If you're a rich kid who just wants an experience and you're living off daddy dollars, then fair enough, but then why not choose Thailand?

Why not choose Thailand?  Well maybe because K-pop, K-drama, and K-culture, in general, have gained a lot of popularity in the West over the past 10 years, and plenty just want over for that experience, which is similar to how many wanted to go over to Japan just for the Anime and J-pop...
After living here for four years, I would really love to go to Thailand... cheap tropical fruit sounds so heavenly!!!
I miss having mangoes, papayas, and all kinds of berries weekly back in Canada... and I can only imagine how much more I would be able to enjoy in a place like Thailand!!!

My husband absolutely loves it here... even after spending almost a decade in Canada he thinks Korea is the best country in the world, and I can't blame him for loving his homeland where he grew up and has all of his family, and friends, and experience, so he feels the most comfortable here...
All I can think of is... those K-drama really did lie to me >.<

All you rich kids out there...... a visit or a semester of study abroad is plenty enough to enjoy Korea...
Just go to Thailand ... or Taiwan.. especially if you have a teacher's license, as I recently found out that Taiwan has a similar public school teaching program there but you have to hold a proper teaching license from back home to apply. The pay is $3,300.00 USD for starters and they also give you a housing and other benefits like bonuses etc.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 12, 2022, 10:34:26 am
If I was a rich kid, I'd be in Thailand. Unfortunately I gotta work, though. Such is life. I just don't feel like life in Korea is so good that it's worth working for free. It's not bad, just not that great.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: waygo0k on July 12, 2022, 10:48:56 am
Thailand is next on my list after China.

That or making my way back to Korea (Jeju).
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 12, 2022, 11:32:21 am
China is great and all, but it's basically impossible to it make work with the airfares. If schools can afford to reimburse you for $10,000 in airfare, they can afford to hire someone already in-country.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: HiddenInKorea on July 12, 2022, 12:13:27 pm
If I was a rich kid, I'd be in Thailand. Unfortunately I gotta work, though. Such is life. I just don't feel like life in Korea is so good that it's worth working for free. It's not bad, just not that great.

Korea looks much better on TV and in dramas than in real life to be honest >.<
However, it's mostly the relationships that I've built over the years that are keeping me here.
While I taught adult ESL back home, I really enjoy teaching middle school here, my students and my co-workers have been amazing.
After almost 4 years, a few of the co-workers have become really good friends.   And I gained a whole Korean family full of aunts and uncles through marriage.
However, the outside world is really underwhelming... every part of the country just seems the same with the same concrete apartments ... Jeju, with its stone statues and orange trees and the big open sea is probably my favorite place in Korea.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 12, 2022, 12:32:53 pm
I don't really watch Korean dramas that much, but do people just not understand how idealized they are? Were people in the 1990s moving to New York because of the popularity of Friends? I seem to recall a lot of criticism of how their lifestyles would have been impossible with the incomes they had. Do 20-somethings really look at these dramas like they're documentaries?
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: grimlock2 on July 12, 2022, 12:53:15 pm
People have always been attracted to visit places from the way they're depicted in fiction, though deciding to live and work in a place solely because of that strikes me as a rather dumb move.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: hangook77 on July 12, 2022, 01:24:02 pm
If this is how you calculate your paycheck, for comparison's sake, there is not a single person in the public school system on 2.1.

Uh yes.  Seoul lowest pay grade is 1.8 level 3.  They never raised it.  But they won't hire level 3 anymore.  So next level is 2.0 million.  Many other Metro cities are next level 2.1 and some rural provinces are next level 2.2.  (I am referring to level 2 since 3 is not hired anymore.  Though I was hired as a level 3 years ago.  I made 1.8 million plus 100k for being in a rural province.  I had to wait second year to get to 2.1.) 

Many Metro cities cap out at 2.4 and some cap out at 2.5.  Rural caps out at 2.7 plus rural allowance and multiple school allowances.  But to get to that level  still take 5 years or so.  It's all online to be found. 
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: D.L.Orean on July 12, 2022, 01:26:23 pm
Uh yes.  Seoul lowest pay grade is 1.8 level 3.  They never raised it.  But they won't hire level 3 anymore.  So next level is 2.0 million.  Many other Metro cities are next level 2.1 and some rural provinces are next level 2.2.  (I am referring to level 2 since 3 is not hired anymore.  Though I was hired as a level 3 years ago.  I made 1.8 million plus 100k for being in a rural province.  I had to wait second year to get to 2.1.) 

Many Metro cities cap out at 2.4 and some cap out at 2.5.  Rural caps out at 2.7 plus rural allowance and multiple school allowances.  But to get to that level  still take 5 years or so.  It's all online to be found.

For the sake of comparison, if you add all the bonuses and housing allowance to your pay, you should add it to everyone's. Be consistent.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: hangook77 on July 12, 2022, 01:31:58 pm
For the sake of comparison, if you add all the bonuses and housing allowance to your pay, you should add it to everyone's. Be consistent.

I excluded the housing.  You do get renewal allowance but not in Seoul.  They stopped giving it a few years ago just because they can (dick move on their part).  So, a 2 million won salary at SMOE is a 2 million won salary.  But for all others renewal allowance of 2 million won is equal to 166,666 won a month extra onto the pay.  So, 2.1 plus this in some metro cities is 2.26 million won a month.  Usually most metropolitan cities don't do multiple schools and get multiple allowance. 
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: HiddenInKorea on July 12, 2022, 01:53:09 pm
I don't really watch Korean dramas that much, but do people just not understand how idealized they are? Were people in the 1990s moving to New York because of the popularity of Friends? I seem to recall a lot of criticism of how their lifestyles would have been impossible with the incomes they had. Do 20-somethings really look at these dramas like they're documentaries?

Not really 20 years olds, but a lot of 12 ~ 17 years old certainly do this, and idealize living in Japan and Korea because of such dramas. For a lot of people, their brains don't properly mature until they are well into their mid 20's , probably around 25 years old. It doesn't help with a bunch of YouTubers hyping up living in Asian for views and sugar coating everything. For Korea, YouTubers like Simon and Martina and probably Megan Bowen and a bunch of girls with their K-Oppar... could be the reason for more of those kinds of people coming in as well...
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: hangook77 on July 12, 2022, 01:56:30 pm
Not really 20 years olds, but a lot of 12 ~ 17 years old certainly do this, and idealize living in Japan and Korea because of such dramas. For a lot of people, their brains don't properly mature until they are well into their mid 20's , probably around 25 years old. It doesn't help with a bunch of YouTubers hyping up living in Asian for views and sugar coating everything. For Korea, YouTubers like Simon and Martina and probably Megan Bowen and a bunch of girls with their K-Oppar... could be the reason for more of those kinds of people coming in as well...

You must anonymously write comments under their videos saying how Korea really is.  So, that way, those who read the fine print, won't fall for a scam.  I do on a few videos myself.  Just to bring it down a notch.  Also, tell them about China, etc too. 
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 12, 2022, 02:29:48 pm
You must anonymously write comments under their videos saying how Korea really is.  So, that way, those who read the fine print, won't fall for a scam.  I do on a few videos myself.  Just to bring it down a notch.  Also, tell them about China, etc too.

Hangook77, I'm new on this board, but I have to say this is a very ironic comment considering you have a very similar view of China. Have you ever taught in China? I doubt that writing YouTube comments is going to sway anyone. I get that a lot of the criticisms on this board and the mainstream media are overblown worst case scenarios that most people never encounter but it's not the fairyland you think it is.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: hangook77 on July 12, 2022, 02:34:47 pm
Hangook77, I'm new on this board, but I have to say this is a very ironic comment considering you have a very similar view of China. Have you ever taught in China? I doubt that writing YouTube comments is going to sway anyone. I get that a lot of the criticisms on this board and the mainstream media are overblown worst case scenarios that most people never encounter but it's not the fairyland you think it is.

Oh no,  I never said it was.  Pre covid many were going over for better pay and more relaxed contracts.  Many friends had gone over and said they liked it.  Of course the air pollution and some spitting and whatnot not so great.  The pay is good and once covid is done if the pay stays high or only drops a bit it will be a place to go for many.  Would you prefer 2 million won a month or 4 million won a month and up?  That was my whole point.  For now, people most likely will have to stick with Korea till everything calms down. 
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 12, 2022, 02:43:47 pm
Oh no,  I never said it was.  Pre covid many were going over for better pay and more relaxed contracts.  Many friends had gone over and said they liked it.  Of course the air pollution and some spitting and whatnot not so great.  The pay is good and once covid is done if the pay stays high or only drops a bit it will be a place to go for many.  Would you prefer 2 million won a month or 4 million won a month and up?  That was my whole point.  For now, people most likely will have to stick with Korea till everything calms down.

Ask your friends in China when they think Covid restrictions will be done. Their answers might surprise you. The government is not working on an exit strategy from Zero Covid. The policy is probably going to stay until it just stops working.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: hangook77 on July 12, 2022, 03:00:08 pm
Ask your friends in China when they think Covid restrictions will be done. Their answers might surprise you. The government is not working on an exit strategy from Zero Covid. The policy is probably going to stay until it just stops working.

Well, obviously not now.  You go once covid is done.  Can I guess until the party re election this fall and it will gradually taper off?  2023 sometime?  I think some have left for now.  Will probably go back once it's done. 
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 12, 2022, 03:03:50 pm
The Chinese government has never defined when Covid will be considered "done." Do you get this? The French embassy in China predicts that will take at least 3-5 years.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: hangook77 on July 12, 2022, 03:07:50 pm
The Chinese government has never defined when Covid will be considered "done." Do you get this? The French embassy in China predicts that will take at least 3-5 years.

Party election this fall, keep everything in place.  Don't rock the boat.  After that may well be different.  Everything is getting back to normal elsewhere.  I will assume by 2023 or 2024 it will be in China too.  Most likely by sometime in 2023.  Of course there are always slim chances of otherwise.  I would not go in 2022.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 12, 2022, 03:10:17 pm
You sure you haven't been binging hard on C-dramas?
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Bakeacake on July 12, 2022, 05:05:29 pm
Of course the air pollution and some spitting and whatnot not so great. 

buddy,  the air pollution and the spitting id say most people can deal with fine.  considering were all in korea...

again,  ITS THE CULTURAL GENOCIDE AND LACK OF HUMAN RIGHTS...
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 12, 2022, 05:31:38 pm
Don't worry. I really don't think he's going to go to China. It's fine. It's not for everyone. I don't know what the guy's motive is.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Bakeacake on July 12, 2022, 06:05:04 pm
mild autism. it helps to repeat things over and over to feel comfortable.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 12, 2022, 10:11:38 pm
I think I must have missed something. What did he post?
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: gogators! on July 13, 2022, 06:14:12 am
"Lots" or the more common "a lot" is a cliche. Someone teaching English should never use it when making an argument.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Lazio on July 13, 2022, 07:25:59 am
Yeah, todays posts went to some strange places, and that one in particular was creepy to the extreme. I agree, anyone thinking, let alone posting thoughts like that, should be ostracised and removed from teaching.

However, hangook 77 didn't say these words or thoughts as the poster, hangook 77. He denies that the poster who said such things was his previous handle. Who was it ...gook 74, or something like that.

I have no idea. I'd like to think that what he is saying is the truth, as I have no beef with him. Others swear differently. Witch hunts can be dangerous though and I hope for his sake that he didn't say this using a previous handle.

Well, it could be that he forgot his password (he says ID but I'm sure he means password) and someone found out his pw. right around that time. That person then wrote thousands of posts over years, under his handle. All sounding just like him. Hmmm, it's really difficult to decide what to believe...
Also interesting that the post in question was one of the last ones written under that handle. About a week after, it went silent. And on that very thread, hangook77 surfaced.

Does this sound familiar? It was written on the same day like that shocking post.

Let's hope less and less teachers come over here.  We haven't heard too much about any more foreigner cutbacks beyond what they already are.  Cuts seemed more in the news a few years ago.  Numbers have stabilized?  You see jobs here and on Dave's quite a bit for public?  Much more than before.  Guess numbers going down a bit are no prob if the number of waygook teachers coming to Korea has also dropped.  Many going back home, gone on to China, etc. 

The children are getting pretty good at English.  The next generation may be able to teach English well.  But, I think many kids and parents still want us around.  It's why we are still here.  Politicians are still politicians and will go in whatever direction they think they have to in order to get votes.  Very few of them have a Trump like ability to not care about opinion polls or approval ratings.  Ha ha. 

There'll still be jobs here.  Now raises and inflation might be another factor.  Wages can be had at a higher rate, but we still lose when inflation factored in.  Next decade will prob be another story.  We're not Japan yet; at least not for another few or several years.  When they get rid of housing and all flights as well as outsource the public jobs to scummy dispatch companies, then it's time to get out.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Lazio on July 13, 2022, 07:30:18 am
"Lots" or the more common "a lot" is a cliche. Someone teaching English should never use it when making an argument.

Not sure what are you on about, but I take it you never heard of the expression: ''a lot to unpack''.

Let me know if you want me to post a dozen quotes where you used ''a lot''.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Augustiner on July 13, 2022, 08:07:47 am
Not sure what are you on about, but I take it you never heard of the expression: ''a lot to unpack''.

Let me know if you want me to post a dozen quotes where you used ''a lot''.

Perhaps he's confusing a lot with alot.  Otherwise he's not making any sense. 
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Renma on July 13, 2022, 08:11:37 am
Don't worry. I really don't think he's going to go to China. It's fine. It's not for everyone. I don't know what the guy's motive is.

I think his genius plan is to redirect all newbie teachers to China, so that the salaries and job security here go up for himself. He will then kick down the doors to his provincial office of education and give his demands. The rest of us are too scared to stand up for ourselves so he tirelessly crusades, posting comments on youtube and facebook in his downtime.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Augustiner on July 13, 2022, 08:18:13 am
I think his genius plan is to redirect all newbie teachers to China, so that the salaries and job security here go up for himself. He will then kick down the doors to his provincial office of education and give his demands. The rest of us are too scared to stand up for ourselves so he tirelessly crusades, posting comments on youtube and facebook in his downtime.

That pretty much sums it up.  And when people, that agreed with his views on salary stagnation here, disagreed with his method of fighting it, he lashed out at everyone and called us apologists, trolls, recruiters and hakwan owners.  He could never wrap his head around the fact people were on board with the need for salaries to climb, just not with his cockamamie methods to achieve this.  And thus, we have today's dynamic of Hangook being the site punching bag. 
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 13, 2022, 09:28:20 am
That pretty much sums it up.  And when people, that agreed with his views on salary stagnation here, disagreed with his method of fighting it, he lashed out at everyone and called us apologists, trolls, recruiters and hakwan owners.  He could never wrap his head around the fact people were on board with the need for salaries to climb, just not with his cockamamie methods to achieve this.  And thus, we have today's dynamic of Hangook being the site punching bag.

He can go to China if he really wants to. I just think his messages sugarcoat a lot of things, particular about how feasible it is. Schools that can afford to cover your start-up costs can afford to pay a recruiter to hire from in-country.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: HiddenInKorea on July 13, 2022, 10:10:51 am
You must anonymously write comments under their videos saying how Korea really is.  So, that way, those who read the fine print, won't fall for a scam.  I do on a few videos myself.  Just to bring it down a notch.  Also, tell them about China, etc too. 

The problem with this is that one person, or even a few people, writing comments under the videos and saying how Korea really is might not exactly stop multitudes of Korea-crazed youngsters from coming over here, especially if this is all that they've ever fantasized about since middle school/high school, and went to Uni to get that B.A just so they could live it up in glamorous SK. Trust me on this one, my friends and I were  "Japan" obsessed anime, and J-drama crazed middle schoolers, and at one point, all we wanted to do was live in Japan.... and this was back when youtube was wither fairly new.. or before youtube, but we'd read all kinds of things about Japan on the forums and if there were some negatives, we'd brush it off and be like... nope.. Japan is magical... those guys must be lying...
However, some high schools and recent Uni grads can be just as immature though... and make sudden decisions without much consideration of the possible consequences...

 On the bright side, these types of people usually learn the hard way by getting stuck in a terrible Hakwon and then leave the country anyway after a year or two, and luckily they have been coming out with their own videos about leaving Korea and how things really are there... and this will hopefully have a lot more impact on the young and impressionable viewers, who are looking up to these YouTubers, than some random anonymous youtube comments... There are quite a few of these videos now where YouTubers are opening up about the abuse that they endured in their Hakwons, and many are telling their viewers that they weren't exactly honest with them while they were showing their life in Korea... as they wanted to be positive about their experience and not share the bad. As a teenager, I would have definitely related more to another teenager showing me their high school life abroad than to a random youtube comment, as there is not a meaningful connection there.

China is, unfortunately, going downhill ... and it's not only because of the Corona situation, but the reason behind it is the whole government instability and the shutting down of all of the "Hakwons" and online education in the blink of an eye ... sounds like it's a very unstable place to work for newbie teachers. I would recommend Taiwan though, especially to certified teachers with their teacher's licenses or sub-teaching licenses, as Taiwan also has a public school English program like EPIK, but it is only open to licensed teachers, and they get very similar benefits like housing, completion bonuses, and also they can make a starting salary of $3,300 USD a month."
That might be a very good program to work at, and could give the teachers an opportunity to level up to teaching at an International school either in Taiwan, Hong Kong, or even come here to Korea to try out for those positions.  It seems that Taiwan doesn't select teachers based on their youth or beauty but based on their credentials, as some of the Native English teachers there looked like they were in their late 40's ~ 50, and some could even be close to 60 years old.

Taiwan's program is fairly new... started in 2011, but they are using it to aggressively achieve the bilingual Taiwan goal by 2030!
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 13, 2022, 10:23:36 am
I don't think China is in decline at all for job seekers. Even with training centers shutting down, the number of jobs exceeds the number of applicants by orders of magnitude. Even before Covid it wasn't a fashionable place. This is one thing hangook77 actually is right about. I think the biggest threat to foreign teachers is that they will become so rare that schools stop trying to hire them.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Lazio on July 13, 2022, 11:15:24 am
Sure does sound familiar. You just convinced me. I hadn't read any of weigookin 74 posts before, or none that I could remember. Yep, same person...same posting style...same old shtick, but now tainted with something special.
 

Just to be clear: He admits that he used that handle before. But he claims he only used it until 2015 and later ''someone else'' used it, not him.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: D.L.Orean on July 13, 2022, 11:58:49 am
Just to be clear: He admits that he used that handle before. But he claims he only used it until 2015 and later ''someone else'' used it, not him.

Makes sense
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Augustiner on July 13, 2022, 12:04:50 pm
Just to be clear: He admits that he used that handle before. But he claims he only used it until 2015 and later ''someone else'' used it, not him.

That's pretty believable. 
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: HiddenInKorea on July 13, 2022, 12:16:15 pm
I don't think China is in decline at all for job seekers. Even with training centers shutting down, the number of jobs exceeds the number of applicants by orders of magnitude. Even before Covid it wasn't a fashionable place. This is one thing hangook77 actually is right about. I think the biggest threat to foreign teachers is that they will become so rare that schools stop trying to hire them.

Maybe Native English Speaking teachers might become rare? I've heard China still accepts a lot of non-native English Teachers, especially the further away that you go from the big cities.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 13, 2022, 12:55:54 pm
I'd be more concerned about schools just axing foreign teacher positions if they get too hard to fill and trying to make do without them. For now, only the richest schools can even afford to employ them because going forward they'll want guarantees that they'll be paid in the event of a lockdown. The ones who didn't get paid during lockdown sure won't be re-signing with their current schools.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: HiddenInKorea on July 13, 2022, 02:23:17 pm
I'd be more concerned about schools just axing foreign teacher positions if they get too hard to fill and trying to make do without them. For now, only the richest schools can even afford to employ them because going forward they'll want guarantees that they'll be paid in the event of a lockdown. The ones who didn't get paid during lockdown sure won't be re-signing with their current schools.

That makes sense. It seems that the way China has been handling the COVID situation and performing the lockdowns... there is a huge possibility teachers will mostly just up and leave... a lot have already been going over to Vietnam.
English education, as always, will once again be reserved for the Elite.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 13, 2022, 02:56:34 pm
Yeah a lot of people are leaving. China doesn't have an end game here, no matter how hard hangook77 wishes for it. Still, if the airfares from Korea are reasonable and he could stomach quarantine, he could take a stab at it.
Title: Re: EPIK wage increase
Post by: hangook77 on July 14, 2022, 12:47:04 pm
Yeah a lot of people are leaving. China doesn't have an end game here, no matter how hard hangook77 wishes for it. Still, if the airfares from Korea are reasonable and he could stomach quarantine, he could take a stab at it.
 
That's why I said wait until after covid.  Seems dense people can't read that.  As long as they keep the pay high, folks would migrate, barring some other unseen factor.