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Symposium => "Open" Discussions => Topic started by: KimDuHan on May 26, 2022, 08:53:29 am

Title: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: KimDuHan on May 26, 2022, 08:53:29 am
The average pay at Walmart Canada is about 16 Cad an hour with the won and cad being almost equal that means you earn about 2.5 million won working at Walmart 8-4 with no overtime add in overtime and other possible career opportunities in Walmart and you can get about 3-4 million won a month.

When will Koreans raise the wage for E2 teachers? Literally it’s not worth going to Korea to teach these days.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: kevingrabb on May 26, 2022, 09:00:06 am
Enjoy paying 1800 a month for a bachelor pad and owning a car so you can drive to your suburban Walmart.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: plan b on May 26, 2022, 09:13:00 am
The average pay at Walmart Canada is about 16 Cad an hour with the won and cad being almost equal that means you earn about 2.5 million won working at Walmart 8-4 with no overtime add in overtime and other possible career opportunities in Walmart and you can get about 3-4 million won a month.


When will Koreans raise the wage for E2 teachers? Literally it’s not worth going to Korea to teach these days.


Agreed on all points.
The main point there is career opportunities. Walmart is huge and there are numerous opportunities to advance internally. In Korea, not so much.
The other benefits of working in Walmart is that you can sometimes be snarky to the customers. They don't expect too much out of you since you work at Walmart.

Korea has long since ceased to be a place to save money. Pre-covid it was great to experience new things, and to open ones eyes in a cultural sense.  However since so many  young women are flocking to Korea to live out their Korean fantasies, theire is no need for employers to pay more. Foreign ESL teachers are cheap and expendable labor.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: VanIslander on May 26, 2022, 09:23:37 am
The math...

Teach 20 hours a week at a typical afterschool hagwon, at $16/hour, would be $1200 over 4 weeks, which is less than 1.2 million.

Are you calculating a 40-hour hagwon week?
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: D.L.Orean on May 26, 2022, 09:27:40 am
Korea has long since ceased to be a place to save money. Pre-covid it was great to experience new things, and to open ones eyes in a cultural sense.  However since so many  young women are flocking to Korea to live out their Korean fantasies, theire is no need for employers to pay more.

Yes! It's all the fault of women. Pay was steadily increasing before these women ruined it for all of us.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: Sagi Keun on May 26, 2022, 09:44:49 am

Pay was steadily increasing before these women ruined it for all of us.

It was the facebook explosion that ruined everything here.

Korean inflation is destroying what little teachers are paid here in any case.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: waygo0k on May 26, 2022, 10:21:00 am
The problem isn’t Korea, the problem is ESL.

ESL wages worldwide have been stagnant for years, even decades. There was a time when Korea was desperate for ESL teachers and paid over the odds to get them, those days are long gone and Korean ESL is now on par with its counterparts around the world.

If you want a higher salary and career progression, get out of ESL. Most of you/us may need to leave Korea in order to do that, but unfortunately it is what it is.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: StillInKorea on May 26, 2022, 11:15:48 am
Hagwons are generally 2.2ish + housing + medical/pension + severance. That's more than 2.5.

I guess with Walmart you get Karens instead of spoiled children. Pick your poison.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: grimlock2 on May 26, 2022, 11:16:52 am
The problem isn’t Korea, the problem is ESL.

ESL wages worldwide have been stagnant for years, even decades. There was a time when Korea was desperate for ESL teachers and paid over the odds to get them, those days are long gone and Korean ESL is now on par with its counterparts around the world.

If you want a higher salary and career progression, get out of ESL. Most of you/us may need to leave Korea in order to do that, but unfortunately it is what it is.

You know, hanging round TEFL sites after you've left TEFL to sh-t on TEFL is not a good look. Though it's a very popular one judging by the numbers of people who do it on reddit. Have enough confidence in your own choice of career to negate the need to simultaneously cr-p on others'.  And spare us the 'I'm just trying to help others by making them see reality' type response.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: waygo0k on May 26, 2022, 12:08:34 pm
You know, hanging round TEFL sites after you've left TEFL to sh-t on TEFL is not a good look. Though it's a very popular one judging by the numbers of people who do it on reddit. Have enough confidence in your own choice of career to negate the need to simultaneously cr-p on others'.  And spare us the 'I'm just trying to help others by making them see reality' type response.

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/NippySlowKudu-size_restricted.gif)

Feel free to point out one thing I said in the above post that is wrong btw.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: kevingrabb on May 26, 2022, 12:15:07 pm
You know, hanging round TEFL sites after you've left TEFL to sh-t on TEFL is not a good look. Though it's a very popular one judging by the numbers of people who do it on reddit. Have enough confidence in your own choice of career to negate the need to simultaneously cr-p on others'.  And spare us the 'I'm just trying to help others by making them see reality' type response.

These are the same people who, if you shit on single mom cashiers at Kroegers, would chastise you for it.

"They're making ends meet. Don't judge."
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: grimlock2 on May 26, 2022, 12:33:23 pm
Quote
Feel free to point out one thing I said in the above post that is wrong btw.

Could all be true, may well be, but that doesn't have anything to do with the point I was making. I used to teach EFL in Eastern Europe in the past but strangely enough I've never felt the need to hang around on E. European TEFL websites telling people it's a crap market and they should come and work in Asia instead. Why not? Because I'd come across as a d-ck.  For some reason that never seems to occur to a lot of international school teachers. Or Koreaboo.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: SPQR on May 26, 2022, 12:45:08 pm
Here is a more or less random job I pulled from FB.
___________________ ___________________ ___________________ ___________________ ___________________ ___________________ ___

SUNJIN JUNGGONG / Sinpyeong-myeon, Dangjin-si
1) Heavy- construction machinery assembly
2) weekly
    --- 08:00 ~ 08:00 ( 2.5 hours overtime) / 08:00 ~ 10:00 (4.5HRS overtime hours)
3) Male under 45 years old
4) Average salary 3.3~4.0 million won
   --- 200% bonus.
   --- Annual allowance payment
   --- Meals provided. Breakfast is 1,500 won upon request.
5) One room for 4 people in the dormitory is free.
6) Free of charge of working clothes / Deduction of working clothes cost when working for less than 3 months.
___________________ ___________________ ___________________ ___________________ ___________________ ___________________ _____

https://www.facebook.com/groups/foreignerjob

200% bonus. So this would be 8,000,000KRW. Nice.

ESL in Korea is dead. For students you need babies and Korea has the
lowest birthrate in the OECD.

Game over.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: KoreaBoo on May 26, 2022, 12:45:17 pm
This is not exactly new news.   It has been something that has been observed for years.  However, with people coming and going w/o knowing past history, they think being the working poor is the norm.  It isn't.  From a post, I made several years ago that is still relevant today.  The only change from then to now is I make approx $94k/yr based on my current salary PI.  It is a solid yearly increase that is also complemented by retroactive pay for inflation.  You won't see any of that in Korea.
___________________ ___________________ ___________________ ____

Quote from: hangook77 on December 01, 2020, 07:53:59 am
You'll listen to all the apologists yap on about how wonderful it is when it isn't.  I've done the math repeatedly.  Exchange rates for Americans are much worse than years ago, a much higher cost of living.  So, in short, it is much less won to send home and you get much less dollars on a worse exchange rate.

Before the Great Recession, an American could easily end up with $1500 (USD) in their bank account back home each month.  More than enough to pay off student loans very quickly and then save some money.  At that, your won here went further and you really could drink lots of booze (Korean of course) if you wished.

Nowadays, you are lucky to get 700 US a month in your bank account back home each month and a 5 to 7 hundred student loan payment will take that all up.  Not much for saving or paying off those 50K student loans all that fast.  I guess rich kids whose mom and dad paid their schooling or most of it (IE  student loan of 10K or something), those kids who love BTS or whatever will come for any low wage cause they're dumb and don't understand the value of money.

The truth is the savings and money earning potential here is a fraction of what it was expecially with many salaries staying low.  2 million won was a decent salary 15 years or so ago.  Even 10 years ago it was okay.  Not going into 2021.  You need to make close to 3 million won to have that same power which I do.  I couldn't survive on 2 unless I married a local woman who had a decent job and salary or something.


(My reply follows)

I fully agree with this.  When I was in Korea, I started out at 1.9 in 2000.  I went up to around 3.4M and then took a pay cut to 2.7 in the uni system.  The wages have stagnated and depreciated to wages that make teachers impoverished.   I also cannot understand how people believe 2.5 or even 3.0M is 'a lot' of money.  It simply does not provide you enough to prosper.  You can keep your head above water, but you're just on borrowed time.

For those that think 'free housing' is a golden ticket, the concept of a free roach-infested studio or small bedroom apartment is not really free.  If you own your own place (as I still do in Korea) which is clean, modern, new and provides an objectively good quality of life-at-home, then 2.0M a month would be feasible if you don't care much about the future.

Can you raise a family on that?  Not really.  It has been done.  There are many Korean families that are living off 2.0 or even less.  We call them the 'poor' of Korean society.  It is sad to see, but English teachers are essentially classed today as part of the 'working poor' of the Korean economy.

When I left Korea, I was making 2.7M a month.  My wife was netting nearly 5.0M (she works for the MOJ).  I calculated my future pension totals if I stayed in the country and the math was very disheartening.  There is a reason why so many elderly are collecting recycling or committing suicide when they reach old age.  So I left when offered a gov't position back home and have reintegrated back into Canadian society.

I currently make $88k/yr until next Feb's pay increment increase.  I still own my place in Korea and will be returning for a month next week, but I would not trade my current circumstances of security of income, air quality, food quality, overall quality of life and enjoyment to be back permanently in Korea.    Many here may argue that money isn't 'everything', but it 'IS' pretty damn useful and allows you the freedom and flexibility to do what you want, when you want, and not need to ask permission to do it.  I read too often about people losing their jobs here, having little to no cash and sleeping on someone else's couch or mattress because they were kicked out of their place (having the money to buy your own would have saved you that).

So as my wife has had her permanent residency (PR) application filed earlier this week, she's giving up nearly 60M/yr to be with me, but we can do this BECAUSE we have the money to support ourselves and do what we want while she establishes herself and puts down roots in Canada.  The gov't will not call her a 'waygookin' as an excuse to treat her like an unwanted-yet-tolerated 2nd class citizen.  That is not part of the culture and also extremely illegal here.   We planned for over 5 years.  We saved money and made more.  We could not have done that making 2.0M a month and living in employer-provided housing.  I would find it hard to do it on 3.0M w/o her income.

If you plan on doing math with 5 or 10 yr plans...I would reconsider your strategy.  5-10yrs in Korea is a long time (and this assumes stable income with predetermined savings that will not be spent due to 'once-in-a-lifetime' experiences that so many take up on) and you will make yourself essentially unemployable back home after being away for so long (especially if you do not work in a uni).  I've been saying this for years, but every time I keep reading this board, I keep seeing the same plans, promises, and frustrations as the endless revolving door of people willing to work for slave-wages keeps coming here.


Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 26, 2022, 01:00:44 pm
Here is a more or less random job I pulled from FB.
___________________ ___________________ ___________________ ___________________ ___________________ ___________________ ___

SUNJIN JUNGGONG / Sinpyeong-myeon, Dangjin-si
1) Heavy- construction machinery assembly
2) weekly
    --- 08:00 ~ 08:00 ( 2.5 hours overtime) / 08:00 ~ 10:00 (4.5HRS overtime hours)
3) Male under 45 years old
4) Average salary 3.3~4.0 million won
   --- 200% bonus.
   --- Annual allowance payment
   --- Meals provided. Breakfast is 1,500 won upon request.
5) One room for 4 people in the dormitory is free.
6) Free of charge of working clothes / Deduction of working clothes cost when working for less than 3 months.
___________________ ___________________ ___________________ ___________________ ___________________ ___________________ _____

https://www.facebook.com/groups/foreignerjob

200% bonus. So this would be 8,000,000KRW. Nice.

ESL in Korea is dead. For students you need babies and Korea has the
lowest birthrate in the OECD.

Game over.
Uhhh...
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: D.L.Orean on May 26, 2022, 01:06:10 pm
Uhhh...

May I also draw your attention to the accommodation. Four to a room.

And just so you know... that will be a 6 day work week. And for the 4 million it's going to be 14 hour shifts. Should I get the application ready for you?
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: SPQR on May 26, 2022, 01:28:56 pm
May I also draw your attention to the accommodation. Four to a room.

And just so you know... that will be a 6 day work week. And for the 4 million it's going to be 14 hour shifts. Should I get the application ready for you?

Yes, they might want you to work for this money and not desk warm.

Like I said. This was a random pull from FB. The uptake is that manual
labor in factories staffed by uneducated SE Asians is paying more
money than teaching ESL in Korea.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: Adel on May 26, 2022, 01:33:42 pm
C'mon guys, wages were always crap in Korea for a standard gig. It was all about the unique cultural experience. Even when I first arrived in the late 90's it wouldn't have been able to compete with a taxi driver's income in Oz. Who went to Korea for the money?
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: D.L.Orean on May 26, 2022, 01:35:59 pm
Yes, they might want you to work for this money and not desk warm.

Like I said. This was a random pull from FB. Th uptake is that manual
labor in factories staffed by uneducated SE Asians is paying more
money than teaching ESL in Korea.

There are a lot of jobs paying more money than ESL in Korea. Is that news to anyone?
This job is not appealing in any way. Manual labor for 14 hours a day. 6 days a week. And a dorm room shared with three other guys. Have at it if you need the money. I don't think you'll have much competition from anyone on this board.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: SPQR on May 26, 2022, 01:41:47 pm
C'mon guys, wages were always crap in Korea for a standard gig. It was all about the unique cultural experience. Even when I first arrived in the late 90's it wouldn't have been able to compete with a taxi driver's income in Oz. Who went to Korea for the money?

I was making 3M in 1996 at about 750KRW to the greenback. That
was USD48K/year. Yes, I was here for the money. The place disgusted
me many times in the 90s. I wasn't here for cultural play time. There
was also the fact that we were in extreme demand, which was a nice
change coming out of uni.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: SPQR on May 26, 2022, 01:43:47 pm
There are a lot of jobs paying more money than ESL in Korea. Is that news to anyone?
This job is not appealing in any way. Manual labor for 14 hours a day. 6 days a week. And a dorm room shared with three other guys. Have at it if you need the money. I don't think you'll have much competition from anyone on this board.

Pay attention now. This was the first job I saw. There are better ones and worse.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: D.L.Orean on May 26, 2022, 01:47:09 pm
Pay attention now. This was the first job I saw. There are better ones and worse.

Start higher up on your list. You'll probably be able to get a better job than that one.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: Bakeacake on May 26, 2022, 01:49:56 pm
Yes, they might want you to work for this money and not desk warm.

Like I said. This was a random pull from FB. The uptake is that manual
labor in factories staffed by uneducated SE Asians is paying more
money than teaching ESL in Korea.

no it isnt.
14 hour days (26 days a month) 364 hours per month
even if you got the 4 mil..   4 mil / 364 = 10,989 /hr

and also, the dorm room with 4 sleeping on the floor like a prison cell.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: Bakeacake on May 26, 2022, 01:53:10 pm
if you think a manual labour job is paying more than a teacher, you're an idiot  ~ Martifarti (abridged)
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: hangook77 on May 26, 2022, 01:56:54 pm
Enjoy paying 1800 a month for a bachelor pad and owning a car so you can drive to your suburban Walmart.

Who would pay 1800 a month?  Live in a cheaper area and pay cheaper rent.  Problem solved.  Or live at home for a few years to save money and focus on paying off the loans or saving up money.  Living in the west usually means a non shoebox room, a non moldy uninsulated, and unsoundproofed room.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: hangook77 on May 26, 2022, 02:02:01 pm
The problem isn’t Korea, the problem is ESL.

ESL wages worldwide have been stagnant for years, even decades. There was a time when Korea was desperate for ESL teachers and paid over the odds to get them, those days are long gone and Korean ESL is now on par with its counterparts around the world.

If you want a higher salary and career progression, get out of ESL. Most of you/us may need to leave Korea in order to do that, but unfortunately it is what it is.

No, many places did pay low, but many countries paid well.  Korea was one of them but has since stopped and is gradually losing their most experienced teachers due to that.  Covid is keeping some here. 

However, I would add even many young people including some young women are quickly realizing the pay sucks and were sold a pack of lies by recruiters. 
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: D.L.Orean on May 26, 2022, 02:02:34 pm
Who would pay 1800 a month?  Live in a cheaper area and pay cheaper rent.  Problem solved.  Or live at home for a few years to save money and focus on paying off the loans or saving up money.  Living in the west usually means a non shoebox room, a non moldy uninsulated, and unsoundproofed room.

If your living situation in Korea is a small, moldy, uninsulated room, you should consider moving. There are options. You just need to save up a little for a deposit.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: hangook77 on May 26, 2022, 02:19:31 pm
If your living situation in Korea is a small, moldy, uninsulated room, you should consider moving. There are options. You just need to save up a little for a deposit.

It's not mine, but for most English teachers it is.  I did pay a deposit as I have been here and got here when the getting was good.  I'd be pissed if I came here as a newbie based on a false advertisement.  Not so easy for a newbie especially with rents and deposits going up, even out here in the provinces now too?  Previously, it was just Seoul and Gyeong gi area.  Most small city apartments in Canada or the US don't require insane deposits anyways. 
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: hangook77 on May 26, 2022, 02:23:50 pm
This is not exactly new news.   It has been something that has been observed for years.  However, with people coming and going w/o knowing past history, they think being the working poor is the norm.  It isn't.  From a post, I made several years ago that is still relevant today.  The only change from then to now is I make approx $94k/yr based on my current salary PI.  It is a solid yearly increase that is also complemented by retroactive pay for inflation.  You won't see any of that in Korea.
___________________ ___________________ ___________________ ____

Quote from: hangook77 on December 01, 2020, 07:53:59 am
You'll listen to all the apologists yap on about how wonderful it is when it isn't.  I've done the math repeatedly.  Exchange rates for Americans are much worse than years ago, a much higher cost of living.  So, in short, it is much less won to send home and you get much less dollars on a worse exchange rate.

Before the Great Recession, an American could easily end up with $1500 (USD) in their bank account back home each month.  More than enough to pay off student loans very quickly and then save some money.  At that, your won here went further and you really could drink lots of booze (Korean of course) if you wished.

Nowadays, you are lucky to get 700 US a month in your bank account back home each month and a 5 to 7 hundred student loan payment will take that all up.  Not much for saving or paying off those 50K student loans all that fast.  I guess rich kids whose mom and dad paid their schooling or most of it (IE  student loan of 10K or something), those kids who love BTS or whatever will come for any low wage cause they're dumb and don't understand the value of money.

The truth is the savings and money earning potential here is a fraction of what it was expecially with many salaries staying low.  2 million won was a decent salary 15 years or so ago.  Even 10 years ago it was okay.  Not going into 2021.  You need to make close to 3 million won to have that same power which I do.  I couldn't survive on 2 unless I married a local woman who had a decent job and salary or something.


(My reply follows)

I fully agree with this.  When I was in Korea, I started out at 1.9 in 2000.  I went up to around 3.4M and then took a pay cut to 2.7 in the uni system.  The wages have stagnated and depreciated to wages that make teachers impoverished.   I also cannot understand how people believe 2.5 or even 3.0M is 'a lot' of money.  It simply does not provide you enough to prosper.  You can keep your head above water, but you're just on borrowed time.

For those that think 'free housing' is a golden ticket, the concept of a free roach-infested studio or small bedroom apartment is not really free.  If you own your own place (as I still do in Korea) which is clean, modern, new and provides an objectively good quality of life-at-home, then 2.0M a month would be feasible if you don't care much about the future.

Can you raise a family on that?  Not really.  It has been done.  There are many Korean families that are living off 2.0 or even less.  We call them the 'poor' of Korean society.  It is sad to see, but English teachers are essentially classed today as part of the 'working poor' of the Korean economy.

When I left Korea, I was making 2.7M a month.  My wife was netting nearly 5.0M (she works for the MOJ).  I calculated my future pension totals if I stayed in the country and the math was very disheartening.  There is a reason why so many elderly are collecting recycling or committing suicide when they reach old age.  So I left when offered a gov't position back home and have reintegrated back into Canadian society.

I currently make $88k/yr until next Feb's pay increment increase.  I still own my place in Korea and will be returning for a month next week, but I would not trade my current circumstances of security of income, air quality, food quality, overall quality of life and enjoyment to be back permanently in Korea.    Many here may argue that money isn't 'everything', but it 'IS' pretty damn useful and allows you the freedom and flexibility to do what you want, when you want, and not need to ask permission to do it.  I read too often about people losing their jobs here, having little to no cash and sleeping on someone else's couch or mattress because they were kicked out of their place (having the money to buy your own would have saved you that).

So as my wife has had her permanent residency (PR) application filed earlier this week, she's giving up nearly 60M/yr to be with me, but we can do this BECAUSE we have the money to support ourselves and do what we want while she establishes herself and puts down roots in Canada.  The gov't will not call her a 'waygookin' as an excuse to treat her like an unwanted-yet-tolerated 2nd class citizen.  That is not part of the culture and also extremely illegal here.   We planned for over 5 years.  We saved money and made more.  We could not have done that making 2.0M a month and living in employer-provided housing.  I would find it hard to do it on 3.0M w/o her income.

If you plan on doing math with 5 or 10 yr plans...I would reconsider your strategy.  5-10yrs in Korea is a long time (and this assumes stable income with predetermined savings that will not be spent due to 'once-in-a-lifetime' experiences that so many take up on) and you will make yourself essentially unemployable back home after being away for so long (especially if you do not work in a uni).  I've been saying this for years, but every time I keep reading this board, I keep seeing the same plans, promises, and frustrations as the endless revolving door of people willing to work for slave-wages keeps coming here.




Just saw this now.  What are you doing now jobwise? 

One of my cousins drives trucks in Alberta.  He took a course 10 years back.  He makes more than 100K a year.  He lives in Luduc and pays 1200 for a 3 bedroom nice apartment or home, I think he said.  Don't tempt me once corona is done.  Ha ha. 
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: hangook77 on May 26, 2022, 02:26:29 pm
There are a lot of jobs paying more money than ESL in Korea. Is that news to anyone?
This job is not appealing in any way. Manual labor for 14 hours a day. 6 days a week. And a dorm room shared with three other guys. Have at it if you need the money. I don't think you'll have much competition from anyone on this board.

Except that esl here did pay the same or more than many of these jobs.  I think that was the point the poster was making. 
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: hangook77 on May 26, 2022, 02:28:32 pm
I was making 3M in 1996 at about 750KRW to the greenback. That
was USD48K/year. Yes, I was here for the money. The place disgusted
me many times in the 90s. I wasn't here for cultural play time. There
was also the fact that we were in extreme demand, which was a nice
change coming out of uni.

Hence the reason the money no longer matters to you.  You got in when the getting was good and saved and put away a lot.  So, now you can weather the low pay shit storm.  But new teachers and even ones who got here 10 years ago are screwed.  I honestly can't see how one could pay off student loans on this low pay today.  2.1 won't cut it anymore. 


Honestly Korea in the 90's sounds like China today.  Best to stay put until covid is done, I guess. 
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: waygo0k on May 26, 2022, 02:58:23 pm
Could all be true, may well be, but that doesn't have anything to do with the point I was making. I used to teach EFL in Eastern Europe in the past but strangely enough I've never felt the need to hang around on E. European TEFL websites telling people it's a crap market and they should come and work in Asia instead. Why not? Because I'd come across as a d-ck.  For some reason that never seems to occur to a lot of international school teachers. Or Koreaboo.

Ironically...not everyone needs to think and act like YOU, regardless of however you may feel
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: waygo0k on May 26, 2022, 03:02:22 pm
This is not exactly new news.   It has been something that has been observed for years.  However, with people coming and going w/o knowing past history, they think being the working poor is the norm.  It isn't.  From a post, I made several years ago that is still relevant today.  The only change from then to now is I make approx $94k/yr based on my current salary PI.  It is a solid yearly increase that is also complemented by retroactive pay for inflation.  You won't see any of that in Korea.
___________________ ___________________ ___________________ ____


"But how dare you! You don't even live in Korea anymore! Why do you keep coming back and gloating posting on Korea sites about how much richer you are than us?!?!?!"
  :P :P :P :P
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: waygo0k on May 26, 2022, 03:05:47 pm
I was making 3M in 1996 at about 750KRW to the greenback. That
was USD48K/year. Yes, I was here for the money. The place disgusted
me many times in the 90s. I wasn't here for cultural play time. There
was also the fact that we were in extreme demand, which was a nice
change coming out of uni.

Damn...$48k per year would have had you living like a KING in Korea in 1996! I'd imagine it wouldn't be too different from earning the same in a place like Cambodia or Vietnam today.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: grimlock2 on May 26, 2022, 03:22:43 pm
"But how dare you! You don't even live in Korea anymore! Why do you keep coming back and gloating posting on Korea sites about how much richer you are than us?!?!?!"
  :P :P :P :P

Yeah, pretty much. Why do you think he posts on here? because he's concerned about people working in TEFL in Korea and he wants to help them out of their predicament? Really? Or is it more likely he's pleased with his achievements and he wants to tell people about them, but maybe the people he knows personally IRL wouldn't be that impressed or would think it a bit weird if he told them what property he owns or how much he makes, so he does it on here instead. Which do you think is more likely honestly?
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: waygo0k on May 26, 2022, 04:03:03 pm
Yeah, pretty much. Why do you think he posts on here? because he's concerned about people working in TEFL in Korea and he wants to help them out of their predicament? Really? Or is it more likely he's pleased with his achievements and he wants to tell people about them, but maybe the people he knows personally IRL wouldn't be that impressed or would think it a bit weird if he told them what property he owns or how much he makes, so he does it on here instead. Which do you think is more likely honestly?

Maybe he just enjoys posting in Korea related forums…BECAUSE HE LIVED IN KOREA ANS STILL HAS AN ATTACHMENT TO THE PLACE.

Or maybe he just wants to share his experience and show others there are ways out of the ESL trap.

Or maybe he just wants to participate in a forum he’s been participating in years…out of habit.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: grimlock2 on May 26, 2022, 04:30:48 pm
Yes a sharing, sociable kind of guy with fond memories of his previous life. Got him to a T  :laugh:
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: gogators! on May 26, 2022, 06:57:29 pm
The problem isn’t Korea, the problem is ESL.

ESL wages worldwide have been stagnant for years, even decades. There was a time when Korea was desperate for ESL teachers and paid over the odds to get them, those days are long gone and Korean ESL is now on par with its counterparts around the world.

If you want a higher salary and career progression, get out of ESL. Most of you/us may need to leave Korea in order to do that, but unfortunately it is what it is.
Or find side jobs in Korea that pay well.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: waygo0k on May 26, 2022, 08:58:54 pm
Or find side jobs in Korea that pay well.

Yep, there’s that too. One main job and 1-2 side gigs on an E-2 visa can be done legally to immigration’s satisfaction.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: KimDuHan on May 26, 2022, 10:24:58 pm
Quote
Enjoy paying 1800 a month for a bachelor pad and owning a car so you can drive to your suburban Walmart.

How much is a bachelor pad to rent in Korea? Not the given “free housing” but an actual bachelor pad which would be twice the size of the “free housing”.

Btw the “free housing” isn’t free.

Also owning/renting a car provides more opportunities.

Korea was a good stepping stone up until maybe 2015 but now it’s not unless you want to live childless or survive on the bare minimum.

Korea is a beautiful country that is advanced and a great place to live but as an E2 you are living on shared time.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: VanIslander on May 26, 2022, 11:18:48 pm
$240 u.s. (300,000 won) for your own place (bigger than an officetel) in Busan and Daegu. I've been to several of them. Inside metro Seoul I dunno but hear absurd differences there.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: KoreaBoo on May 26, 2022, 11:32:55 pm
Just saw this now.  What are you doing now jobwise? 

One of my cousins drives trucks in Alberta.  He took a course 10 years back.  He makes more than 100K a year.  He lives in Luduc and pays 1200 for a 3 bedroom nice apartment or home, I think he said.  Don't tempt me once corona is done.  Ha ha. 

I'm a Captain in the RCAF now.  I cannot state enough how much more satisfying, meaningful, and interesting the work is in this career path. 

If  you have the chance to return to a proper career...don't let the ESL trap (hogwans & PS) keep you in.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: hangook77 on May 27, 2022, 12:00:05 pm
You know, hanging round TEFL sites after you've left TEFL to sh-t on TEFL is not a good look. Though it's a very popular one judging by the numbers of people who do it on reddit. Have enough confidence in your own choice of career to negate the need to simultaneously cr-p on others'.  And spare us the 'I'm just trying to help others by making them see reality' type response.

Those countries always paid low and advertise that they pay low.  There's no recruiters promising good money. 
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: hangook77 on May 27, 2022, 12:05:38 pm
I'm a Captain in the RCAF now.  I cannot state enough how much more satisfying, meaningful, and interesting the work is in this career path. 

If  you have the chance to return to a proper career...don't let the ESL trap (hogwans & PS) keep you in.

Good for you.  Though you prob still have to be young enough to jump to it.  I wish I had of done it when I was young and got my 20 years in.  I wish it now I mean. 

Most definately, once corona is done I will look.  I had made above average which was okay until now.  Not getting rich or anything but surviving.  Previous cheaper cost of living made it okay.  I could pay off student loans and such.  Plus I do like kids and their silly antics.  So, I wasn't in hate of the job or anything.  But we are smart to give advice to new teachers to reconsider doing something else long term.  It doesn't pay anymore like it did. 
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: KoreaBoo on May 27, 2022, 11:29:30 pm
Good for you.  Though you prob still have to be young enough to jump to it.  I wish I had of done it when I was young and got my 20 years in.  I wish it now I mean. 

Most definitely, once corona is done I will look.  I had made above average which was okay until now.  Not getting rich or anything but surviving.  Previous cheaper costs of living made it okay.  I could pay off student loans and such.  Plus I do like kids and their silly antics.  So, I didn't hate the job or anything.  But we are smart to give advice to new teachers to reconsider doing something else long-term.  It doesn't pay anymore as it did. 

In Canada, it is your fitness level that matters, not your age.   I entered basic when I had just turned 47.  A week after I had left Korea, I was in basic with the rank of Lieutenant (granted due to my trade and education), 14 hours jet-lagged, and shining boots with people 25 years younger than me wondering 'what have I done?!?!!'.   Even when doing the hard stuff, it was fun because for me.  If you do cardio and exercise a lot (I do about 10k cycling a year), you will be fine.  Even the obstacle courses where you have to get over that wall were quite easy for me.  I have had zero issues crushing people 25 years younger than me in the fitness tests and tasks.  I am contracted until I am 60 and can stay in till 65 when I am compulsorily retired.  Though people get hurt and are put under work restrictions due to their injuries, the Forces in Canada really try hard to retain their personnel.  It is a fantastic organization to work for.   It is especially easier when you are older since you don't make the same mistakes and know when to push compared to the 20-somethings who are constantly running around in full headless-chicken mode.

You mentioned your 20 years ( I am assuming you need this for a  pension).  In the CAF, you need 10 years to qualify for a pension.  The pension is 2% of your best 5 years salary average x number of years of service.  When I am nearing 60, I'll be near 150k @ my current rank.  If I go Major in 3 to 4 years, it will be higher.  So I can collect with  13-18 years of pension with 26-36% of a min of 150k/yr + CPP + OAS which puts me around $57 - 72k per year between 13 and 18 years of service total pensions that are indexed to inflation.

It's very much a win/win if you think about it.

:)
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: SPQR on May 28, 2022, 11:12:55 am
Here's another random job posting:

FOR ONLY THOSE IN KOREA
BEVERAGE FACTORY
Salary is 3,500,000won
Free food twice a day
And free room for each worker
Day shift - Monday - Friday 8am - 6pm work hours
Night shift- Monday - Friday 10pm- 5am
Saturday and Sunday’s off work
Any visa type can Apply
Non visa type can Apply
For both MALE AND FEMALE
Work locations are ; Seoul , dongdaemun, itaewon, suwon, busan, gwangju, jeju, gimpo, iksan, Ansan Daegu, gyeongsan, incheon
Inbox me here on messenger
Inbox manager on WhatsApp ‪+82 10‑5965‑3360‬


8am-6pm: 10 hours minus breaks and lunch, cool
M-F: Nice
3.5M: Sweet

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2250490561840349
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: VanIslander on May 28, 2022, 11:48:56 am
8am to 6pm ? THAT'S 10 hours!

I have spent two decades teaching 4pm-8pm, some years plus or minus a year. 4 to 5 hours.

Night shift? GTFOH.

Free room? Does that mean a whole spacious apartment to yourself? I have never accepted a job in an officetel or with shared housing. If you like it, good on you. "Free room" is suspect in meaning (e.g., floor of a shared bedroom).

A suggestion: Pay the cost it takes to visit, meet the people, see the classroom and accommodations BEFORE accepting a job (if you're already in the country).

I got a Jeju job in 2009 but didn't accept the offer until I paid to fly from the mainland and met the director, saw the apartment, was walked through the academy, saw my classroom, schedule and class list. In the end, i  signed and later re-signed for 6 more years (dang made 3.2 mill with the yearly upgrades; they replaced me eventually with a newbie at 2.2).

Qualitatively speaking:

Some classes I'd teach for free.
Most classes are a JOY (make my day).

Bottling drinks in a factory?
It's a recipe for suicide.

To explain: My dad's friend's son was a metalworker in a factory and made a lot of money. He drove a sports car and he was praised by my dad's friends. I was in grad school studying Philosophy (a subject my dad didn't respect much: he was an educated engineer-turned-mechanic who thought philosophers were, as he never said but the Brits sum up, wankers). My dad pointed at him as an example of a path i should follow. OMG, I thought. I said "His job is boring, his hobby is filling out lottery forms for local contests, he has no girlfriend, he is awkward everywhere." I thought him either dumb or suicidal. A year later he put a bullet through his brain and when i learned of it through my dad, i didn't need to say "I told you so". I just nodded. And he was never discussed again.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: grimlock2 on May 28, 2022, 01:01:18 pm
Here's another random job posting:

FOR ONLY THOSE IN KOREA
BEVERAGE FACTORY
Salary is 3,500,000won
Free food twice a day
And free room for each worker
Day shift - Monday - Friday 8am - 6pm work hours
Night shift- Monday - Friday 10pm- 5am
Saturday and Sunday’s off work
Any visa type can Apply
Non visa type can Apply
For both MALE AND FEMALE
Work locations are ; Seoul , dongdaemun, itaewon, suwon, busan, gwangju, jeju, gimpo, iksan, Ansan Daegu, gyeongsan, incheon
Inbox me here on messenger
Inbox manager on WhatsApp ‪+82 10‑5965‑3360‬


8am-6pm: 10 hours minus breaks and lunch, cool
M-F: Nice
3.5M: Sweet

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2250490561840349

Funny, if you go on the UK teaching reddit you'll find state school teachers talking about exactly the same thing. How they get paid minimum wage when you take the hours they work into account, they know people who work at Amazon who make more etc..
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: SPQR on May 28, 2022, 02:12:08 pm

To explain: My dad's friend's son was a metalworker in a factory and made a lot of money. He drove a sports car and he was praised by my dad's friends. I was in grad school studying Philosophy (a subject my dad didn't respect much: he was an educated engineer-turned-mechanic who thought philosophers were, as he never said but the Brits sum up, wankers). My dad pointed at him as an example of a path i should follow. OMG, I thought. I said "His job is boring, his hobby is filling out lottery forms for local contests, he has no girlfriend, he is awkward everywhere." I thought him either dumb or suicidal. A year later he put a bullet through his brain and when i learned of it through my dad, i didn't need to say "I told you so". I just nodded. And he was never discussed again.


It doesn't matter how many times you delete and censor my post, your
argument is still stupid. One mentally deranged individual who caps
themself explains or supports nothing.

Are you going to delete this again?????

I seriously think mods should not be making posts. It is a clear conflict of interest and makes a joke of being objective.

Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: VanIslander on May 28, 2022, 03:11:39 pm
This time you state: "Your argument is stupid."
You don't here insult individuals.
You can attack an opinion all day long.
Free speech is heralded. :)

To the topic: Woodward's was Canada's equivalent to Walmart ($1.49 Tuesday). I as a college student made a quick $200 for two nights of inventory counts back when the country was humming.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: Augustiner on May 30, 2022, 07:59:20 am

Free speech is heralded. :)

To the topic: Woodward's was Canada's equivalent to Walmart ($1.49 Tuesday). I as a college student made a quick $200 for two nights of inventory counts back when the country was humming.

Hmm...that belief in free speech doesn't come across too much when you delete so many posts on a whim that don't go against the TOS.  I had the impression you were staunchly against other's free speech, but very much in favour of your own.  I was surprised to read the above.

Never heard of Woodward's, but I'd say Woolco was the Canadian equivalent of Walmart back in my neck of the woods. 
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: hangook77 on May 30, 2022, 10:36:49 am
In Canada, it is your fitness level that matters, not your age.   I entered basic when I had just turned 47.  A week after I had left Korea, I was in basic with the rank of Lieutenant (granted due to my trade and education), 14 hours jet-lagged, and shining boots with people 25 years younger than me wondering 'what have I done?!?!!'.   Even when doing the hard stuff, it was fun because for me.  If you do cardio and exercise a lot (I do about 10k cycling a year), you will be fine.  Even the obstacle courses where you have to get over that wall were quite easy for me.  I have had zero issues crushing people 25 years younger than me in the fitness tests and tasks.  I am contracted until I am 60 and can stay in till 65 when I am compulsorily retired.  Though people get hurt and are put under work restrictions due to their injuries, the Forces in Canada really try hard to retain their personnel.  It is a fantastic organization to work for.   It is especially easier when you are older since you don't make the same mistakes and know when to push compared to the 20-somethings who are constantly running around in full headless-chicken mode.

You mentioned your 20 years ( I am assuming you need this for a  pension).  In the CAF, you need 10 years to qualify for a pension.  The pension is 2% of your best 5 years salary average x number of years of service.  When I am nearing 60, I'll be near 150k @ my current rank.  If I go Major in 3 to 4 years, it will be higher.  So I can collect with  13-18 years of pension with 26-36% of a min of 150k/yr + CPP + OAS which puts me around $57 - 72k per year between 13 and 18 years of service total pensions that are indexed to inflation.

It's very much a win/win if you think about it.

:)

Seriously, they accepted you at 47?  Wow!  That I did not know.  So, at 54 you could theoretically go for 10 or 11 years and get a pension?  I am younger than this but just curious. 
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: KoreaBoo on May 30, 2022, 10:37:54 pm
It's not just doing infrantry that is part of being the forces.  Dentists, nurses, nutritionists, finance, Padres....it's a huge mix.

They also let  you serve starting @ 57 if you are able to meet the physical and fitness requirements.  The standards are universal regardless of your trade (you are given time every day to work out on your schedule).   So if you are obese, they will get you into shape and pay you while doing it.

And yes...if you serve 10 years, you will get a pension.  If you serve less than 10, they will return your pension + matching contributions.   I pay about 1.2M/mo for pension for my military pension + 650ish/k for CPP.  It adds up, but there is a long-term goal to this.

https://forces.ca/en/how-to-join/
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: VanIslander on May 31, 2022, 02:21:20 am
****

That is tempting as a HARD LEFT TURN. lol. Doing something you never thought you would but wtfn?
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: KimDuHan on June 03, 2022, 01:24:03 am
****

That is tempting as a HARD LEFT TURN. lol. Doing something you never thought you would but wtfn?

Got to make money lots of people take hard left or right turns. Some succeed and some fail!

Hell korea was a hard left turn for most people who came.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: gogators! on June 03, 2022, 06:53:45 am
I knew a captain in the Canadian Navy while in SK. He was at the time the head of the UN forces in Korea. He seemed to do very well financially, owning three expensive motorcycles among other things. Curious, I asked another Canadian who said the military there paid well, in his opinion because not many people were interested in joining up.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: Augustiner on June 03, 2022, 07:37:09 am
I knew a captain in the Canadian Navy while in SK. He was at the time the head of the UN forces in Korea. He seemed to do very well financially, owning three expensive motorcycles among other things. Curious, I asked another Canadian who said the military there paid well, in his opinion because not many people were interested in joining up.

I guess it depends on your background and what branch of the military you go into.  My cousin joined up about ten years ago and was pretty excited.  I don't think he even finished high school.  He did his training in Quebec and said the anti English sentiment among the higher ups was pretty open.  He was based in Shiloh, Manitoba and they all hated it.  He also said the locals despised the military guys.  Pay was sh*t and they had a really hard time with retention.  At the first opportunity he had he bailed.  I used to read the comments on Facebook with him and his ex-Shiloh buds.  They had nothing but hard feelings.  It's not like Canada has bases globally so they can't really dangle the "See the world" carrot for your average recruit.  Navy would be a different story.  It's pretty small, but when I was living in Phuket I remember the Canadian Navy being in port.  There were a lot of Newfoundlanders and they were getting absolutely smashed at the local Irish theme bar, Molly Malone's.  Or, it might have been Scruffy Murphy's.  I was also on a harbour tour in Barcelona a few years ago and a Canadian ship was docked out by the cruise ships.  So, between Shiloh, Manitoba and cruising the world, I'm guessing which branch can affect your experience. 
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: hangook77 on June 03, 2022, 08:20:32 am
It's not just doing infrantry that is part of being the forces.  Dentists, nurses, nutritionists, finance, Padres....it's a huge mix.

They also let  you serve starting @ 57 if you are able to meet the physical and fitness requirements.  The standards are universal regardless of your trade (you are given time every day to work out on your schedule).   So if you are obese, they will get you into shape and pay you while doing it.

And yes...if you serve 10 years, you will get a pension.  If you serve less than 10, they will return your pension + matching contributions.   I pay about 1.2M/mo for pension for my military pension + 650ish/k for CPP.  It adds up, but there is a long-term goal to this.

https://forces.ca/en/how-to-join/

So whats the starting pay for an officer and for a private?  Housing on base?  Barracks or a private room?  Just curious how it goes.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 09, 2022, 08:17:36 am
Hagwons have their benefits and all, but do they give you a blue vest and a staff discount? No? Didn't think so!   8)
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: VanIslander on July 09, 2022, 09:21:44 am
Hagwons have their benefits and all, but do they give you a blue vest and a staff discount? No? Didn't think so!   8)
Dang. :( All I have been given for 20 years is no rent - not "free" some say, but at over two thou u.s. base salary, the math still works - free meals on work days (from full feasts to just ramyeon and gimbap, always free). They give bi-monthly all-the-teachers-joining free trips to tourist sites or new restaurants within an hour's drive of town (in 15 of 20 years here). What else do they give? Hmmm... i have only worked in hagwons and have NEVER SPENT A SECOND (not a Kafkaesque moment) "deskwarming", as they gently say in gov't job circles. Yet, those institutions designed and staffed to elevate the education of the youth are looked down on by many in this country. It is somehow more honorable to teach 20+ wildly different leveled students than to teach 8- to 12-student high level classes, equal number medium-level students and similar number low-level students, targeting lessons to each. When I, as a Philosophy undergrad, took Philosophy of Education, only about 8 of 40+ of us students were not education majors (it being an applied philosophy course), and us non-education majors thrived: the teachers-in-training education degree majors thought bigger classes were better. Socrates taught us Philosophy guys that 1 on 1 is better, though Sociology research had shown the ideal class size for learning was 8. I have come to agree (though in uni i argued once it was 4; the evidence has shown that number less ideal).
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 09, 2022, 10:03:36 am
The staff discount at Walmart is about 10%. Think about it! That's 10% off all of your daily necessities, such as soap, eggs, toilet paper, sausages, and a whole host of other items you can enjoy. I'm not sure if it would be my go-to place for philosophy books but I'm sure they would have something for you.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: VanIslander on July 09, 2022, 10:27:02 am
The staff discount at Walmart is about 10%. Think about it! That's 10% off all of your daily necessities, such as soap, eggs, toilet paper,...
Oh. 10% off toilet paper.

 Are you seriously pointing this out?

Of all the reasons to work somewhere... but, i guess this explains Canadian companies pimping their Odeon Theaters ticket discounts in their employment recruitment ads. I used to scoff at it as more advertising placement than serious job choice consideration. But maybe to some it is a consideration! (not an extra perk, but an actual: think about it! tempting part of the job-hunting process). Huh. I guess so. People do use those discount cards or codes, and choose their shopping destinations accordingly.

Alternatively, in my family I take after my dad: pay the price, don't bother even bringing coupons. I know there are SAVINGS to be had by playing the marketer's game, but there is something to be said to not wasting one's thoughts on it, keeping it simple, decide in a shop whether the product at the labeled price is worth it or not, period.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: Billy Herrington on July 09, 2022, 10:35:31 am
10% off all your daily necessities is actually a pretty decent perk. It can go a long way for people with families. 
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: VanIslander on July 09, 2022, 12:38:01 pm
10% off all your daily necessities is actually a pretty decent perk. It can go a long way for people with families. 
True, that is.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: SPQR on July 09, 2022, 02:57:40 pm
Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher opened the floodgates to free trade
and shipped all manufacturing jobs overseas and then smashed all the unions.
They claimed the increase in GDP and a fairy tail entitled, "Trickledown Economics"
would offset the loss of jobs. Well, it hasn't and now the current generation are
@@@@ed.The only people to gain were to he wealthy. Suddenly
the earning ratio between the lowest and highest paid people in a company went from
like 1:30 to 1:3000. Specimens like Bezos and Musk were spawn. Home ownership for
younger people is a dream.

I don't like Trump, but he had a point. If I was president I would pass a law. "If you
want to sell it here. Make it here. Period."

Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: L I on July 09, 2022, 03:03:46 pm
Nationalist protectionism sucks. Free trade is best. It’s a net economic gain for the world. There’s currently a worker shortage in the United States. And the pay is not bad:

Median monthly earnings:

Less than a high school diploma: $2,713 (3.4 million won)

High school diploma: $3,506 (4.4 million won)

Some college, no degree: $3,896 (4.9 million won)

Associate's degree: $4,173 (5.3 million won)

Bachelor's degree: $5,781 (7.3 million won)

Master's degree: $6,821 (8.6 million won)

Doctoral degree: $8,272 (10.4 million won)

Professional degree: $8,337 (10.5 million won)

https://www.bls.gov/emp/chart-unemployment-earnings-education.htm
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: SPQR on July 09, 2022, 03:07:42 pm
Nationalist protectionism sucks. Free trade is best. It’s a net economic gain for the world.

You're not paying attention are you. The people who "free trade" was supposed
to benefit were bypassed. Corporation reaped the profits. The middle class
was decimated.  Do you not read the news....for the last twenty years.

Yes, everyone knows mathematically free trade creates a net gain. But
that is not going to society equitably.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: L I on July 09, 2022, 03:13:54 pm
If there has been an overall net gain, that is good. Poor got richer overall. Middle classes got richer overall. And the richest got way richer overall, which creates jealousy. People care about what they have compared to others. Instagram makes them want more.
Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: L I on July 09, 2022, 03:21:46 pm
The poorest Americans tend not to read much or vote much. (And it’s not because they don’t have the time, as they tend to work less. That’s why they are poor in many cases.)

Middle class people vote. Rich people vote. But there are way more middle class people than rich people, so politicians say, “Hey, middle class, you’re getting screwed. Vote for me and I’ll save you.” Hearing about the middle class “disappearing” enough times causes people to believe it.

Housing space per person is objectively increasing in the United States, and has been for years.

The average American woman owns nineteen pairs of shoes.

Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: SPQR on July 09, 2022, 03:30:30 pm
If there has been an overall net gain, that is good. Poor got richer overall. Middle classes got richer overall. And the richest got way richer overall, which creates jealousy. People care about what they have compared to others. Instagram makes them want more.

You must have a sincerely warped sense of what a good society should be if
you think astronomical wealth inequality is a good thing.

Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: L I on July 09, 2022, 03:39:35 pm
Inequality Myths:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rrkHn5Fd6zM

The incomes of poor and middle-income Americans are up 32% since the government began keeping track several decades ago. Yes, that increase is adjusted for inflation.

Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: L I on July 09, 2022, 03:55:23 pm
Why the Middle Class is Better Off Than You Think:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z20Wg19P6Q

The consensus view that the American middle class "is dead, dying, hollowed out" is based on an "incomplete reading of the data," says economist Russ Roberts.
______

Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: SPQR on July 09, 2022, 03:57:59 pm


That investment banker was great, "Unfair is a feature. It is not a bug." WTF

Title: Re: Walmart Canada pays more that most hagwons
Post by: gogators! on July 09, 2022, 06:47:07 pm
If there has been an overall net gain, that is good. Poor got richer overall. Middle classes got richer overall. And the richest got way richer overall, which creates jealousy. People care about what they have compared to others. Instagram makes them want more.
If only. The rich got richer and the poor got poorer.

"The 290 million or so unlucky souls who make up the so-called bottom 90 percent, meanwhile, saw just 13 percent of the nation’s wealth gains between 2006 and 2018, not much over half of what went to the top .01 percent. Our bottom 50 percent actually lost wealth over that 2006-2018 period."