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All about South Korea => Life in Korea => Topic started by: Sagi Keun on May 12, 2022, 12:27:53 am
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Especially at night.
They walk toward you, head down staring into their phone.
Or walking with their head turned around talking to someone behind them. Totally oblivious.
They get within a few feet and i have to call out HEY! to awaken them to their surroundings.
The lack of awareness of their surroundings is really quite incredible.
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The lack of awareness of their surroundings is really quite incredible.
Just arrived here?
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Yes, it does happen fairly frequently. Sometimes I am more annoyed about it than other times - depends on how I am feeling. However I am also aware that often the person I am with is not aware of other people themselves so I try to cut some slack and not get irritated (too much) by it.
However, I don't like yelling/calling out 'Hey' etc.
Instead I just say 'Hello'. It does the same thing and sounds friendlier - making me feel less stressed out by it all.
Alternatively, I just start talking louder/loudly to the person I am with - often nothing very exciting eg 'Yes, I think that is good' - just drivel really but it lets them know I am there.
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Especially at night.
They walk toward you, head down staring into their phone.
Or walking with their head turned around talking to someone behind them. Totally oblivious.
They get within a few feet and i have to call out HEY! to awaken them to their surroundings.
The lack of awareness of their surroundings is really quite incredible.
Never, I'm not a psychotic, twitchy freak.
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This isn't a Korean only thing.
I read a few years ago about cities in Germany putting the pedestrian light signals in the sidewalk, because people were always looking down at their phones.
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This isn't a Korean only thing.
I read a few years ago about cities in Germany putting the pedestrian light signals in the sidewalk, because people were always looking down at their phones.
we have those at the crosswalks near my school lol
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Asians have traditionally had much less spatial awareness. Other people don't exist. China, Korea, etc. It has gotten better here though due to massive etiquette and advertising, etc. IE People no longer butt in front you in line. This happens more with lower educated / class people of course. Another example cycling on the path and dinging your bell and the ajosshi in front you not moving. A neighbor moving furniture and banging and clanging at 3 AM because other people don't exist. Like I said, higher class people are less likely to behave that way and Korea is improving a lot in this regard. But, some folks still don't think of others. It's why, you often can't "hint" and hope someone gets it. You have to be more forceful here sometimes. You can't be too timid in Asia. Sometimes, instead of hinting, you just have to ask others to get out of the way.
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Let me add the one dangerous thing. Kids especially but some other Koreans will look at the green walk light at a crosswalk and just walk straight across. No looking left or right. That is really dumb. I try to tell kids to look both ways repeatedly while crossing even if they have the light. You can't trust drivers or cars. Never trust them even if you can. But, no spatial awareness.
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I used to walk around like Jax from "Sons of Anarchy". They got outta my way. If they didn't I would stop and let them bump into me, then get mouthy.
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Let me add the one dangerous thing. Kids especially but some other Koreans will look at the green walk light at a crosswalk and just walk straight across. No looking left or right. That is really dumb. I try to tell kids to look both ways repeatedly while crossing even if they have the light. You can't trust drivers or cars. Never trust them even if you can. But, no spatial awareness.
It is a rare sight to see any Korean looking 2 ways before crossing a road or river path. Even looking one way is a hard task.
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It is a rare sight to see any Korean looking 2 ways before crossing a road or river path. Even looking one way is a hard task.
A public service announcement campaign should be in order. I always look before crossing even if I have the light. I never trust local drivers, ever.
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we have those at the crosswalks near my school lol
Cool. Pictures please ....
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Cool. Pictures please ....
They've done it an intersection near my place as well. Really bright. If you're just staring down when they go on you you'll be seeing red or green spots for a few minutes.
On a somewhat related note, have you noticed that people often take their cue for when to cross from the people around them, rather than the light changing? So many times I've started crossing on a red because I don't want to wait and I can get safely across just to to trigger some Korean to start walking. Then they look up and see the light is red and hurriedly jump back. This herd mentality may be common elsewhere but because you can wait so long for the lights to change I cross on red much more often here. Maybe that's why I notice it more.
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You should see them driving, talk about oblivious.
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Things in my neck of the woods have improved *dramatically* over the last decade.
Many of the zebras now have traffic lights and cameras, so the drivers take them seriously. The kids in my primary schools all get road safety lessons, so I rarely see young kids attempting suicide by car anymore.
I've also noticed, especially with younger drivers, that Koreans are adhering to traffic laws a lot more: I think the new (and far more stringent) driving license requirements have made a big difference in how people think about driving.
It's been a long time coming, but I think that driving safety has come a very long way in a very short period of time.
Of course, on the other hand, there are still those bongo trucks driven by 60 year old dudes who treat everything on asphalt as part of their own personal fiefdoms. >:(
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Bus Driver: Stop is coming up.
SCCRREEECHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH H
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Things in my neck of the woods have improved *dramatically* over the last decade.
Many of the zebras now have traffic lights and cameras, so the drivers take them seriously. The kids in my primary schools all get road safety lessons, so I rarely see young kids attempting suicide by car anymore.
I've also noticed, especially with younger drivers, that Koreans are adhering to traffic laws a lot more: I think the new (and far more stringent) driving license requirements have made a big difference in how people think about driving.
It's been a long time coming, but I think that driving safety has come a very long way in a very short period of time.
Of course, on the other hand, there are still those bongo trucks driven by 60 year old dudes who treat everything on asphalt as part of their own personal fiefdoms. >:(
Remember cars used be on the horn if you weren't starting to roll like 5 seconds before the lights turned green. Trying to cross the even on a green-man light was difficult cause the cars turning right would give little thought about the pedestrians already in the crosswalk.
Driving courtesy as for sure improved, and still has a way to go. At least physical road-rage is pretty rare here, just words mostly.
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I've started driving here in the last few months and I HATE kakao navigation. It's so fukking intrusive.
"A CAMERA IS COMNG UP THAT MEASURES AND READS TRAFFIC CONDITIONS."
OK? How does that affect me?
"IT DOESN'T"
STFU then. It tells me so many useless things. If it's dangerous or a change in route, tell me. Other than that, STFU.
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I really, really, really try to stay away from people on sidewalks when I ride my bike. And it makes me so annoyed when they make a startled sound every time I pass them. But I swear, not a single person can look forward and see anything, and I swear, no matter what way I go, they walk straight towards where I am going. I care less and less about scaring people who are on their phones and have no idea what is happening around them. I don't slow down anymore.
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I really, really, really try to stay away from people on sidewalks when I ride my bike. And it makes me so annoyed when they make a startled sound every time I pass them. But I swear, not a single person can look forward and see anything, and I swear, no matter what way I go, they walk straight towards where I am going. I care less and less about scaring people who are on their phones and have no idea what is happening around them. I don't slow down anymore.
So you're constantly... swerving out of their way? 8)
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I don't yell or anything. I just ready myself for impact and let fate decide.
9 times out of 10, they notice me at the last minute and move. The very few handful of times when they actually end up bumping into me, I just smile at them after they jump back and stare at the human-shaped thing that came at them from out of nowhere, and head back on my way.
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I really, really, really try to stay away from people on sidewalks when I ride my bike. And it makes me so annoyed when they make a startled sound every time I pass them. But I swear, not a single person can look forward and see anything, and I swear, no matter what way I go, they walk straight towards where I am going. I care less and less about scaring people who are on their phones and have no idea what is happening around them. I don't slow down anymore.
Bikes are supposed to be on the road, technically, so you don't have much of a right to be angry.
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Bikes are supposed to be on the road, technically, so you don't have much of a right to be angry.
Not in Korea. One section is for pedestrians and one if for cyclists. The sidewalks are also quite wide here for that reason. Roads and most lanes here are quit narrow compared to back home. (It's like the whole country once had small cars and now drive big cars and the Koreans never changed the lanes nor parking spaces to update that. It's like common sense got lost at the bottom of the Han RIver.) Anyways, cycling on the side of a busy city road is a suicide wish.
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I don't yell or anything. I just ready myself for impact and let fate decide.
9 times out of 10, they notice me at the last minute and move. The very few handful of times when they actually end up bumping into me, I just smile at them after they jump back and stare at the human-shaped thing that came at them from out of nowhere, and head back on my way.
Get a brass bell and ding it a ways back. That helps with 90 per cent nowadays. A few stubbornly won't move due to their belief in ajosshi power.
Brass bells are very loud. I have a big one like this.
https://www.amazon.com/Crane-13165-Riten-Brass-Bell/dp/B005YOMCCQ?ref_=ast_sto_dp
But any will do I suppose. Preferably brass.
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It's like the whole country once had small cars and now drive big cars and the Koreans never changed the lanes nor parking spaces to update that. It's like common sense got lost at the bottom of the Han RIver.)
In newer developments they did.
In other places the government is not allowed to seize property and flatten people's homes/businesses in order to widen roads.
You seem to have a video game cheat mode view of how the world works where this all powerful controlling government can just do massive projects overnight with little regard for legal restrictions or cost.
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I've started driving here in the last few months and I HATE kakao navigation. It's so fukking intrusive.
"A CAMERA IS COMNG UP THAT MEASURES AND READS TRAFFIC CONDITIONS."
OK? How does that affect me?
"IT DOESN'T"
STFU then. It tells me so many useless things. If it's dangerous or a change in route, tell me. Other than that, STFU.
you can turn the audio off. that way all youll get is the flashing red when theres an upcoming speed trap and youre going over the limit
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you can turn the audio off. that way all youll get is the flashing red when theres an upcoming speed trap and youre going over the limit
But then I miss the offramp. hahaha
You know, cuz I'm looking at the road.
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But then I miss the offramp. hahaha
You know, cuz I'm looking at the road.
hahaha bottom left corner tells you how far off your turns are. glance down, say 3.4km turn right.. have another look in 3 mins. I believe in you! i love kakao navi for the ease of sending someone a location in kakao chat and being able to just click the link to open the navigation. but i live in a moderate city of 700,000 so its pretty easy getting around. really only use it on trips out of town. just never use naver maps! ive got a healthy hate for naver.
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Bikes are supposed to be on the road, technically, so you don't have much of a right to be angry.
Yeah, that's definitely not a rule or by-law here.
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Get a brass bell and ding it a ways back.
Nope, I prefer to keep power-walking into them until they learn.
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I biked on a two lane road in rural Uiwang once in the BLOODY GUTTER and I had 6 cars behind me doing the same speed I was. No oncoming traffic, just pootering along.
Like.......... Go around? The hell is wrong with people?
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In newer developments they did.
In other places the government is not allowed to seize property and flatten people's homes/businesses in order to widen roads.
You seem to have a video game cheat mode view of how the world works where this all powerful controlling government can just do massive projects overnight with little regard for legal restrictions or cost.
The newer developments certaintly did not. Lanes and parking spaces narrow plus not enough parking lots or parking garages built as discussed before.
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I biked on a two lane road in rural Uiwang once in the BLOODY GUTTER and I had 6 cars behind me doing the same speed I was. No oncoming traffic, just pootering along.
Like.......... Go around? The hell is wrong with people?
That explains a lot. I was driving on a country road not too long ago and speed limit 60 with a small truck driving 30 or 40 in front of me and others. Guy never pulled over to let cars pass either. Eventually we started passing him illegally. No common sense at all. Though in the country I bike on a smaller road, cars can drive around and pass me no problems.
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The newer developments certaintly did not. Lanes and parking spaces narrow plus not enough parking lots or parking garages built as discussed before.
Again, you can't just seize private property to build a government parking garage. If you're going to use land that someone owns, the government has to pay them for it. Usually that eats all the money so you don't have anything left over for parking garages.
Also, money spent on parking garages is money not spent on "Other Project X you complain about and think the government should throw money at". Money doesn't grow on trees.
Honestly, your approach to urban planning comes across as very video gamey/unrealistic.
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Again, you can't just seize private property to build a government parking garage. If you're going to use land that someone owns, the government has to pay them for it. Usually that eats all the money so you don't have anything left over for parking garages.
Also, money spent on parking garages is money not spent on "Other Project X you complain about and think the government should throw money at". Money doesn't grow on trees.
Honestly, your approach to urban planning comes across as very video gamey/unrealistic.
Usually in the west in order to approve a large new development, the government would mandate certain things be built into it as a condition to approve the permit take it or leave it. In one case a government military base was relocated meaning the housing development was built on public lands to begin with. So, it certainly could have been mandated. No parking lots hence cars parking on the side of the road blocking traffic on the sidewalk etc. No common sense.
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It's been a long time coming, but I think that driving safety has come a very long way in a very short period of time.
The main problem is the motorcycles.
Driving courtesy as for sure improved
Cars dawdle too much in residential areas though.
Waiting 5 minutes for a car to pass just so that you can cross the road gets a bit annoying.
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Koreans have superior visual spatial intelligence. So they can easily dodge collisions even when looking at phone. They are also so good at golf.
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To the people arguing that riding a bike on the pavement ('sidewalk') is legal, you are wrong.
It is illegal to ride a bike on the pavement unless you're on a bike lane. This is a nationwide law and you're going to have a problem if you hit someone. Most people cycle on the sidewalk anyway, including me sometimes. Nonetheless, it's illegal and you have no right to complain about pedestrians getting in your way. On the other hand, if pedestrians are walking in a bike lane and they get hit, that's their fault.
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On the other hand, if pedestrians are walking in a bike lane and they get hit, that's their fault.
By law, I doubt that can be held 100% at fault; in fact, it's probably closer to 0% due to the law being in favor of pedestrians wherever they go. Unless someone can point to some law with precise details that puts them 100% at fault. For instance, a pedestrian crosses the road on a red light and get hits by a car, I think, the car is still majority blamed because of the way the law is written.
Pedestrians get to act like dicks in a lot of situations and avoid full punishment when they are 100% at fault.
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To the people arguing that riding a bike on the pavement ('sidewalk') is legal, you are wrong.
No. You are wrong. You said bikes are supposed to be on the road. Clearly with all of the bike lanes that are built up alongside the sidewalk, they are supposed to be OFF the road in numerous places. Those bike paths are everywhere in newish areas. In older areas where there are no bike paths, there are also no sidewalks. Everyone is sharing the road.
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Bus Driver: Stop is coming up.
SCCRREEECHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH H
I absolutely hate taking buses here!
Luckily, I can get away with using just the subway here in my city. Bus drivers just drive too crazy here!
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As I have said many times: In Korea unlike back home I - as a driver - am not scared of police cars (even if lights flashing), but I shake in my shoes at the sight of a taxi or bus.
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And don't get me started on dump trucks, long box haulers and ... did you see - a few years ago - the cement truck intersection tip-over attempt to avoid an aggressive scooter? Three women instantly perished and it blew up the Internet - then it disappeared; likewise ended up the guy who was in a wheelchair who, after everyone quickly passed him, angrily launched his chair at the elevator doors four times. He then plunged down the shaft to his death. The video went viral. The next day it was announced he died in an elevator "incident" A week later, all references were SCRUBBED.
EDIT: I removed Seoul. Scrubbed. Irony if not acknowledged.
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And don't get me started on dump trucks, long box haulers and ... did you see - a few years ago - in Seoul, the cement truck intersection tip-over attempt to avoid an aggressive scooter? Three women instantly perished and it blew up the Internet - then it disappeared; likewise ended up the guy in Seoul who was in a wheelchair who, after everyone quickly passed him, angrily launched his chair at the elevator doors four times. He then plunged down the shaft to his death. The video went viral. The next day it was announced he died in an elevator "incident" A week later, all references were SCRUBBED.
Neither of those incidents took place in Seoul. I believe the elevator incident, which absolutely did not disappear from the internet, took place in Daejeon or Daegu. The dump truck incident happened in Seosan.
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The dump truck incident happened in Seosan.
Seosan? ... I was off by 110 km.
Having spent 20 years in Gyeongsangnamdo & on Jeju, URBAN stories often are Seoul or not Seoul. I have been to Busan countless times, Daegu, Gwangju, but you cite SEOSAN? Google tells me its 110 km from Seoul. So I stand thereby corrected. The POINT remains. (Ain't trying to diss Seoul here). Metro Seoul at best.
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Seosan? ... I was off by 110 km.
Having spent 20 years in Gyeongsangnamdo & on Jeju, URBAN stories often are Seoul or not Seoul. I have been to Busan countless times, Daegu, Gwangju, but you cite SEOSAN? Google tells me its 110 km from Seoul. So I stand thereby corrected. The POINT remains. (Ain't trying to diss Seoul here). Metro Seoul at best.
How can you have been here 20 years and not know where Seosan is? Also how can you have been a journalist and still f-up the basic facts of a story so badly?
Also lol at the "I've been to Busan countless times" line, just pure mother-effing lol. Like wow, you've been here 20 years and have been to Busan a few times. Major flex.
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And don't get me started on dump trucks, long box haulers and ... did you see - a few years ago - the cement truck intersection tip-over attempt to avoid an aggressive scooter? Three women instantly perished and it blew up the Internet - then it disappeared; likewise ended up the guy who was in a wheelchair who, after everyone quickly passed him, angrily launched his chair at the elevator doors four times. He then plunged down the shaft to his death. The video went viral. The next day it was announced he died in an elevator "incident" A week later, all references were SCRUBBED.
EDIT: I removed Seoul. Scrubbed. Irony if not acknowledged.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHo3xr1q-Wo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHo3xr1q-Wo)
There are several videos of it on youtube. You just need to do a search.
It was a hideous incident. Cement mixer driver thought he could go through a red light, motorcyclist thought she owned the road.
Combination of two arrogant people and innocent bystanders get killed.
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How can you have been here 20 years and not know where Seosan is? Also how can you have been a journalist and still f-up the basic facts of a story so badly.
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1. I was a newspaper journalist 1994-2001.
2. I came to South Korea to teach for ONE year in 2002.
3. I caught the teaching bug.
4. I loved teaching English and living an expat life here in Geoje & Hadong (both in Gyeongsangnamdo far from Seoul), liking it so much that I re-signed, then re-signed, okay then went to get my CELTA to teach somewhere worldwide thereafter (Europe, Africa, Southeast Asia).
5. Then I went to Hadong to teach Monday to Thursday 4pm-750pm with 3 day weekends for 3 years at 2.6 mill. Easy peasy travel me - see!
6. Then my mom died. My dad died. My sis died. And I found myself alone in 2009 and only liking teaching.
7. I taught my best on Jeju 2009-2017.
8. I since 2017 remain in Geochang, back in my fav province, teaching three days a week here, two days an-hour away in Jinju because of COVID.
9. I know next to nothing about cities and towns near Seoul. I have driven there twice (in my beloved Korando I am only ridiculed about around here - does anyone else smile when they get into their vehicle, and think they are rock & rolling?) and express bused about a dozen times to the capital city. I have never lingered or explored its urban sprawl, its surrounding metro area (nor have i felt the journalistic need to double check the facts, I lying on a bed and one-finger texting these days rather than all-guns going newspaper reporting last century. I'm a has been in that dep't.)
10. G'day.
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Thank you.
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... driving my Morris 1100 with my 8 track crackling through cheap speakers.
That is an awsome throwback.
It may be your best quote ever. Get the tattoo ink ready.
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1. I was a newspaper journalist 1994-2001.
2. I came to South Korea to teach for ONE year in 2002.
3. I caught the teaching bug.
4. I loved teaching English and living an expat life here in Geoje & Hadong (both in Gyeongsangnamdo far from Seoul), liking it so much that I re-signed, then re-signed, okay then went to get my CELTA to teach somewhere worldwide thereafter (Europe, Africa, Southeast Asia).
5. Then I went to Hadong to teach Monday to Thursday 4pm-750pm with 3 day weekends for 3 years at 2.6 mill. Easy peasy travel me - see!
6. Then my mom died. My dad died. My sis died. And I found myself alone in 2009 and only liking teaching.
7. I taught my best on Jeju 2009-2017.
8. I since 2017 remain in Geochang, back in my fav province, teaching three days a week here, two days an-hour away in Jinju because of COVID.
9. I know next to nothing about cities and towns near Seoul. I have driven there twice (in my beloved Korando I am only ridiculed about around here - does anyone else smile when they get into their vehicle, and think they are rock & rolling?) and express bused about a dozen times to the capital city. I have never lingered or explored its urban sprawl, its surrounding metro area (nor have i felt the journalistic need to double check the facts, I lying on a bed and one-finger texting these days rather than all-guns going newspaper reporting last century. I'm a has been in that dep't.)
10. G'day.
What do points 1-8 have to do with his question?
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Seosan is NOT in the Seoul Metro Area!
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Been a hot minute since I heard a good Korando story.
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Seosan is NOT in the Seoul Metro Area!
Did someone say..... Seosan?
https://youtu.be/H0Oq_vUAWN8
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Cool. Pictures please ....
doesnt look quite as cool as it sounds but here they are
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Seosan is 110 km from Seoul, as i mentioned. It ain't Seoul but it would certainly count as in the metro area of a city in America, Canada and probably a lot of other countries.
Did someone say..... Seosan?
https://youtu.be/H0Oq_vUAWN8
I watched it again, one of 300-odd people to do so.
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I watched it again, one of 300-odd people to do so.
Thanks!
Nick says that 2 people come in a week that say "Hey, I saw this Kevin guy's video."
Which BLOWS MY MIND.
Nick sends me 4 cans a month in the mail as thanks. Whenever I think about how small my channel is, in the grand scheme of YouTube, I realise that the people watching are local and passionate so I feel like it's....... Amplified? Pretty cool, regardless.
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doesnt look quite as cool as it sounds but here they are
:smiley:
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Many seoulites consider anywhere outside the capital 지방.
By definition, the Seoul Metro Area ends at the borders of Gyeonggi Province.
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Many seoulites consider anywhere outside the capital 지방.
By definition, the Seoul Metro Area ends at the borders of Gyeonggi Province.
110 km is chicken feed in America. Doesn't it take an hour to go across Seoul?
From downtown Phoenix to the suburbs is nearly 100km! And don't get me started on New York and Los Angeles!!
It is150+ km from one side of the official "Greater Toronto Area", the GTO, to the other.
Moreover, VANISLANDER (VANCOUVER ISLANDER) says it takes longer - is more kms to drive from the B. C. capital to the other end of Vancouver Island - than it takes to go from Busan to Pyongyang (based on KM traveled); plus consider: this country fits into Canada's Westernmost province 10 times.
So... when somebody said:
Seosan is NOT in the Seoul Metro Area!
The response is: k, but thereabouts.
110 kms isn't far from the distance to some urban locales.
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110 km is chicken feed in America. Doesn't it take an hour to go across Seoul?
From downtown Phoenix to the suburbs is nearly 100km! And don't get me started on New York and Los Angeles!!
It is150+ km from one side of the official "Greater Toronto Area", the GTO, to the other.
Moreover, VANISLANDER (VANCOUVER ISLANDER) says it takes longer - is more kms to drive from the B. C. capital to the other end of Vancouver Island - than it takes to go from Busan to Pyongyang (based on KM traveled); plus consider: this country fits into Canada's Westernmost province 10 times.
So... when somebody said:The response is: k, but thereabouts.
110 kms isn't far from the distance to some urban locales.
Distance driving is difficult to properly measure in terms of time due to traffic. It's really best to measure it as the crow flies. If you had your pilot's license you would look at things differently.
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Seoul City Hall to Seosan City hall takes 2 hours with great traffic.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHo3xr1q-Wo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHo3xr1q-Wo)
There are several videos of it on youtube. You just need to do a search.
It was a hideous incident. Cement mixer driver thought he could go through a red light, motorcyclist thought she owned the road.
Combination of two arrogant people and innocent bystanders get killed.
Supposedly all the people in the car were public school teachers. Rumored to be one of the reasons the MOE discourages car pooling among teachers.
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Supposedly all the people in the car were public school teachers. Rumored to be one of the reasons the MOE discourages car pooling among teachers.
Oh no, 4 teachers died out of 390 000 teachers in an absolute freak accident. Better control how they act before work hours even start and create 4x the amount of pollution.
How about............ NO DRIVING. All employees live on premises at every business. No more travel. No more death. Sweet, sweet handwringing can finally end.
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Whatever the case in North America or other places, it doesn't change the definiton of what the Seoul Metro Area is. I didn't make it up. It is what it is.
Btw the Greater Toronto Area is 7.100 square kilometers while the Seoul Metropolitan
Area is 12.600 square kilometers.
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Seoul City Hall to Seosan City hall takes 2 hours with great traffic.
Exactly. I think VanIslander is just looking at the distance as the crow flies and thinking it's not that far. You have to cross over that bridge around Dangjin and if that's backed up, which it often is, you're brought to a standstill. Taking alternate routes is possible but they're longer. A friend taught in Seosan for a few years and I headed down a few times. That dump doesn't even have a train station. You're stuck on the bus. Nice jumping off point to some coastal areas, but it is not a far flung corner of the Seoul metro region. Perhaps, Van since you only heard of the place two days ago when I mentioned it, you could hold off on telling people that have been there where it fits in geography wise in relation to the capital area.
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Oh no, 4 teachers died out of 390 000 teachers in an absolute freak accident. Better control how they act before work hours even start and create 4x the amount of pollution.
How about............ NO DRIVING. All employees live on premises at every business. No more travel. No more death. Sweet, sweet handwringing can finally end.
Well, it is a hard pill to swallow when all 3 teachers were from the same school. Then they encourage school trips where every student, and teachers, are in the same group of vehicles in a convoy of busses.
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I'm for safety but there comes a point. How about 4 seperate kitchens with different school lunches so only 25% of the faculty could come down with food poisoning at any given time?
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I'm for safety but there comes a point. How about 4 seperate kitchens with different school lunches so only 25% of the faculty could come down with food poisoning at any given time?
Uh, I ordered the chicken.
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Uh, I ordered the chicken.
If it's fried than all the chickenella is probably dead.
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If it's fried than all the chickenella is probably dead.
More concerned about chickenosis.
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More concerned about chickenosis.
Excellent rhyme, Mr C
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No. You are wrong. You said bikes are supposed to be on the road. Clearly with all of the bike lanes that are built up alongside the sidewalk, they are supposed to be OFF the road in numerous places. Those bike paths are everywhere in newish areas. In older areas where there are no bike paths, there are also no sidewalks. Everyone is sharing the road.
You understood the spirit of what I was saying, so you're just being a dick really.
Bikes should not be sharing the pavement with pedestrians. That is a nationwide law.
Bike lanes are obviously fine, but they're not "everywhere in newish areas". I live in a new area with middle class high rise, and there is a distinct lack of bike lanes. There are lots of pavements and roads though. Perhaps you're one of those people who lives in Seoul and thinks it's the entire country.
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If it's fried than all the chickenella is probably dead.
Deep frying kills the toxin producing microorganisms, but it doesn't denatures the toxins already produced.
Hmm. Now to put that into a rhyme so I can cadge me a compliment as well...
"The chickenella may have gone to hell-a,
Ne'ertheless, chickenosis can yet be the prognosis."
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...one of those people who lives in Seoul and thinks it's the entire country.
Yeah. Though 25 million (50%) of the population of the country lives in metro Seoul, an area the size of Jamaica or Qatar. So it is HALF the country at least.
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You understood the spirit of what I was saying, so you're just being a dick really.
Bikes should not be sharing the pavement with pedestrians. That is a nationwide law.
Bike lanes are obviously fine, but they're not "everywhere in newish areas". I live in a new area with middle class high rise, and there is a distinct lack of bike lanes. There are lots of pavements and roads though. Perhaps you're one of those people who lives in Seoul and thinks it's the entire country.
No. I disagreed completely with what you said. If you think someone is being a "dick" because they counter what you say you need to grow up. I don't live in Seoul and there are bike lanes alongside the majority of the larger thoroughfares in all the cities around me. That means they want you OFF the road.
A little advice. If someone telling you you're wrong is going to send you into a little fit, perhaps the always up beat chat group on K o r S h a r e is more your speed.
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No. I disagreed completely with what you said. If you think someone is being a "dick" because they counter what you say you need to grow up. I don't live in Seoul and there are bike lanes alongside the majority of the larger thoroughfares in all the cities around me. That means they want you OFF the road.
A little advice. If someone telling you you're wrong is going to send you into a little fit, perhaps the always up beat chat group on K o r S h a r e is more your speed.
You haven't really countered what I've said. You just made it seem like I was saying something I wasn't, which is why I think you're a bit of a dick.
The point is that cyclists are not supposed to be on the pavement. That was always my actual point; I was explaining why another poster shouldn't be angry about people 'getting in his way' on the pavement. You know this and you won't back down because... I guess there are a few possible unflattering explanations.
If Greater Seoul (and Anyang is essentially Greater Seoul) has bike lanes everywhere, that means they want you neither on the road nor on the pavement. They don't want people cycling along with pedestrians. My original point stands.
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You haven't really countered what I've said. You just made it seem like I was saying something I wasn't, which is why I think you're a bit of a dick.
The point is that cyclists are not supposed to be on the pavement. That was always my actual point; I was explaining why another poster shouldn't be angry about people 'getting in his way' on the pavement. You know this and you won't back down because... I guess there are a few possible unflattering explanations.
If Greater Seoul (and Anyang is essentially Greater Seoul) has bike lanes everywhere, that means they want you neither on the road nor on the pavement. They don't want people cycling along with pedestrians. My original point stands.
This is what YOU wrote: "Bikes are supposed to be on the road, technically,"
Ok, YOU wrote that. That is not true. Stop trying to insult me because you weren't able to communicate your point clearly or adequately. If you meant something different that's on you to get across. Although, I'm still not sure what you're trying to say. The route I take to the subway every morning absolutely is purposed so that people are cycling alongside pedestrians. It's elevated and separated from the road and there is no barrier between the part of the sidewalk that is for pedestrians and that which is for cyclists. There are just bikes painted every 10 metres or so. I see that everywhere. And I haven't lived in Anyang for sixteen years.
Perhaps you're one of those people who looks around their neighbourhood and thinks "Yup, this is how it is everywhere." Again, go back and read your post and then acknowledge you didn't get your point across. You're still not, but you definitely didn't. I don't see you owning up to the original error, although I'm not sure why, it's there for all to read... I guess there are a few possible unflattering explanations.
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This is what YOU wrote: "Bikes are supposed to be on the road, technically,"
Ok, YOU wrote that. That is not true. Stop trying to insult me because you weren't able to communicate your point clearly or adequately. If you meant something different that's on you to get across. Although, I'm still not sure what you're trying to say. The route I take to the subway every morning absolutely is purposed so that people are cycling alongside pedestrians. It's elevated and separated from the road and there is no barrier between the part of the sidewalk that is for pedestrians and that which is for cyclists. There are just bikes painted every 10 metres or so. I see that everywhere. And I haven't lived in Anyang for sixteen years.
Perhaps you're one of those people who looks around their neighbourhood and thinks "Yup, this is how it is everywhere." Again, go back and read your post and then acknowledge you didn't get your point across. You're still not, but you definitely didn't. I don't see you owning up to the original error, although I'm not sure why, it's there for all to read... I guess there are a few possible unflattering explanations.
Regarding your claim that you don't live in Greater Seoul, these gems were posted by you within the last seven days:
1. "My stylist in Itaewon just put his prices up to 10,000 last week. It was 8,000 in late April."
2. "I think that's a reasonable expectation. I may apply. I've been too long in the suburbs of Seoul."
Quit blatantly lying to attempt to win an argument.
I maintain that the spirit of my comments was clear enough, and you had a comprehension issue. Now it's clear that you're also a liar.
The bike paths that are alongside pedestrians can be found in random places in provincial Korea, but they're not everywhere. They're also regularly cut off by bus stops, trees, things put out by shops, etc. They end rather abruptly too. They're not safe places to cycle.
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This whole argument would be moot if we just did the sensible thing and banned riding bikes on roads and sidewalks and just limited them to trails and parks like a sane country would. Better for cars and pedestrians both. If cyclists resist, just make it permissible for motorists to sanitize the roads from cyclists.
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This whole argument would be moot if we just did the sensible thing and banned riding bikes on roads and sidewalks and just limited them to trails and parks like a sane country would. Better for cars and pedestrians both. If cyclists resist, just make it permissible for motorists to sanitize the roads from cyclists.
The 1950s called and wants it's failed infrastructural ideology back.
Do what progressive countries and municipalities are doing ban all cars in urban centres while promoting public transport and cycling. Better for health, aesthetics, commute times, and the environment.
If motorists resist, feed them to their own combustion engines!
Ban the banal bane that is the autobahn!
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Regarding your claim that you don't live in Greater Seoul, these gems were posted by you within the last seven days:
1. "My stylist in Itaewon just put his prices up to 10,000 last week. It was 8,000 in late April."
2. "I think that's a reasonable expectation. I may apply. I've been too long in the suburbs of Seoul."
Quit blatantly lying to attempt to win an argument.
To prove me a liar, you would have to show where I claimed I don't live in the Greater Seoul suburbs. I'm in Gyeonggi on a subway line. Did you actually just go searching through my old posts to find that? That's funny. Not only did I not blatantly lie, I didn't lie at all. You accused me of having some elitist Seoul attitude. You made that up to fit a false narrative. People in many areas of Seoul look down on my suburban location. You then said I lived in Anyang and I said I don't. Where's the lie?
You wrote: "Perhaps you're one of those people who lives in Seoul and thinks it's the entire country." That's not true. People in Seoul would not consider me as someone living in Seoul, and I don't say I live in Seoul. I'm several cities away from even bordering Seoul.
See how I'm responding to things you actually wrote instead of making something up and then calling you a liar? Try that. Instead of standing by your original comments you keep sliding in a different direction in some childish attempt to avoid the fact you're wrong.
Again, YOU wrote: ""Bikes are supposed to be on the road, technically," Some posters said this was incorrect. You said they were "wrong." OK, no problem. No one called you a "dick" for saying that. I countered with "No, you are wrong." You then came back with calling me a dick. Nice.
By the way, I was in three separate cities yesterday on three different sidewalks. Guess what they all had? Bike lanes! Were they separated from the road? Sure were. Were they separated from the sidewalks? Sure weren't. Only some different brick work or just a paint job that stopped at certain intervals as the bike path and pedestrian parts merged. Also, with one of them the bike lane was on the innermost side away from the car traffic . I see those all over the place and they are continuing to make new ones. Why? Because they want cyclists off the road where possible. So, you were wrong. In so many places, bikes are NOT supposed to be on the road, technically. All you've been doing is giving the exception that proves the rule. Just because they're not in your neighbourhood, doesn't mean they're not out there.
It's such an odd stance to take that I have to wonder if you're StillinKorea in name only.
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If JUST the UK wanted to fully switch over to electric vehicles, the entire world output of lithium would need to triple.
It's an absolute joke.
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The 1950s called and wants it's failed infrastructural ideology back.
The infrastructure that beat the Soviets and put a man on the moon.
Do what progressive authoritarian and short-sighted countries and municipalities are doing ban all cars in urban centres
If 90% of your population is urbanized and doesn't know how to drive a car, what are you going to do when the Russkis invade? Probably pass an ordinance forbidding enemy tanks from entering the city without proper inspection.
Better for health, aesthetics, commute times, and the environment.
Not better for moving heavy things. Truly the policy of a people who do not engage in physical labor and do not produce tangible goods, only consume.
Those places should put their money where their mouth is and ban ALL motorized transport- no diplomatic or governmental cars, no motorized police, no motorized ambulances or fire, no delivery, no construction. If they want to bring in heavy materials and goods, those bicycle-riders should have to bring it in themselves on their bike or drag it by rope down the road.
If motorists resist, feed them to their own combustion engines!
The cyclists can fight the motorists for the road, vehicle-to-vehicle. Good luck to them. After a few hundred are turned into a red smear, I think they'll learn.
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If JUST the UK wanted to fully switch over to electric vehicles, the entire world output of lithium would need to triple.
It's an absolute joke.
According to a bunch of shiny graphs on the webz, global lithium output looks to have been doubling every 4 years or so anyway, so tripling it in the next 7 or 8 isn't a big deal. Projected global demand will only start to outpace supply around 2030ish.
Anyway, replace lithium batteries with the sodium batteries that are currently (pun) being developed. Plenty of sodium lying around! Problem solved!
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I say nuclear-powered cars!
Maybe France can restore the glory of Europe and end its 75-year malaise and be a pioneer on this, given their existing nuclear infrastructure.
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The infrastructure that beat the Soviets and put a man on the moon.
Lol Are you claiming that American automotive infrastructure is what caused the US to win the space race?
If 90% of your population is urbanized and doesn't know how to drive a car, what are you going to do when the Russkis invade? Probably pass an ordinance forbidding enemy tanks from entering the city without proper inspection.
Nah. If what has happened in Ukraine is any indicator of things, Russian tank drivers are not very good at reading even when stuff is posted in Cyrillic.
Anyway, automobiles are terrible for rapid evacuations. Panicked people are notoriously selfish: traffic jams everywhere! Trains, planes, and ferries, mate. Worked for Dunkirk, and granted robust public transport systems, it may work elsewhere as well.
Anyway, what most people will do is blame whichever political party is in power, grumble how it would have never happened had *their* candidate been holding the reins, and then possibly vandalize a few government structures. Meanwhile, the American military will be busy nuking pretty much everything of strategic value in Russia.
Not better for moving heavy things. Truly the policy of a people who do not engage in physical labor and do not produce tangible goods, only consume.
Away with the scarecrows! Reducing automobile traffic would have very little impact on commercial or industrial transportation. Especially if the result is a more developed rail system. If you read the hover-text, you'll note that we're talking about *reducing* automotive traffic and minimizing reliance on roadways, not getting rid of them entirely. That's obviously just not feasible on any short or mid term timeframe.
The cyclists can fight the motorists for the road, vehicle-to-vehicle. Good luck to them. After a few hundred are turned into a red smear, I think they'll learn.
What kind of dumbass, high-school posturing drivel is this? Deny it all you want, but the future is *inevitable*. Personal ICE vehicles are nearing obsolescence. Viva la revolution! Better hope you look good in spandex and those big, clunky, aerodynamic helmets 'CAUSE THAT'S WHAT YER GRAND-KIDS GONNA BE BUYING YOU FER CHRISTMAS, POPS!
:smiley:
I say nuclear-powered cars!
Those exist, actually. Most of the Mars rovers are powered by radioisotope thermoelectric generators.
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Lol Are you claiming that American automotive infrastructure is what caused the US to win the space race?
Yes. And AMERICAN cheese. Rather than waiting ages for 'proper' cheese to melt, we efficiently constructed space-age cheese and thus were able to focus more on important things like landing on the moon and the Boeing 747 and Coca-Cola.
Anyway, automobiles are terrible for rapid evacuations.
You're correct. In "Old" EUROPE they would more worried about EVACUATIONS, RETREATING and how to SURRENDER. Wouldn't even think to use their bicycles for war like the Vietnamese.
AMERICA on the other hand would be worried about needing cars and trucks to bring people and equipment forward to the front lines to fight with our LEGAL guns and blowing up invading troops with LEGAL tannerite. And because we still had cars, we'd still know a thing or two about rigging one to be a bomb that would kill the invading Chicoms or Russkis or Canadians.
Deny it all you want, but the future is *inevitable*
Only thing that will kill the car will be the flying car. Or the jet pack.
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Yes. And AMERICAN cheese. Rather than waiting ages for 'proper' cheese to melt, we efficiently constructed space-age cheese and thus were able to focus more on important things like landing on the moon and the Boeing 747 and Coca-Cola.
WHY NOT JUST POUR SPOILED MILK OVER EVERYTHING????
Wouldn't even think to use their bicycles for war like the Vietnamese.
See? SEE? Bicycles kicked your butt in 'nam... ...AND THEY'LL DO IT AGAIN !!!! JUST YOU WAIT AND SEE!!!!!!!1!!!!
AMERICA on the other hand would be worried about needing cars and trucks to bring people and equipment forward to the front lines to fight with our LEGAL guns and blowing up invading troops with LEGAL tannerite.
They'd have better luck chasing away invaders with their crap cheese. >:(
Only thing that will kill the car will be the flying car. Or the jet pack.
Singapore is gunning for it!
https://www.volocopter.com/
There have also been murmurs of a similar service to be offered in Seoul.
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The answer to the topic question is 7.
7.
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Not better for moving heavy things. Truly the policy of a people who do not engage in physical labor and do not produce tangible goods, only consume.
Lots of small farmers in Africa and other places use bikes to transport their goods to distributors or markets. For them, bikes are a godsend.
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Supposedly all the people in the car were public school teachers. Rumored to be one of the reasons the MOE discourages car pooling among teachers.
Looks like that car driver had a few seconds and no one behind him for a stretch. He/she could have slammed it into reverse and matted it and possibly avoided the deaths. But that would require being vigilant!
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By the way, I was in three separate cities yesterday on three different sidewalks. Guess what they all had? Bike lanes! Were they separated from the road? Sure were. Were they separated from the sidewalks? Sure weren't. Only some different brick work or just a paint job that stopped at certain intervals as the bike path and pedestrian parts merged. Also, with one of them the bike lane was on the innermost side away from the car traffic . I see those all over the place and they are continuing to make new ones. Why? Because they want cyclists off the road where possible. So, you were wrong. In so many places, bikes are NOT supposed to be on the road, technically. All you've been doing is giving the exception that proves the rule. Just because they're not in your neighbourhood, doesn't mean they're not out there.
It's such an odd stance to take that I have to wonder if you're StillinKorea in name only.
I've lived in several southern cities, and they are not as you described. Right now I'm in Jeolla, in a new neighbourhood with middle class high-rise. Essentially a planned mini-city. No bike lanes near my apartment.
Seoulites may think you live 'rural' because you're in the Seoul urban spread, but they're morons and their city is a shithole.
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Seoulites may think you live 'rural' because you're in the Seoul urban spread, but they're morons
Yeah, people who think Suwon is rural are really, really dumb.
I'm not asking you to like it, or live there. Or even visit. But if you genuinely think Suwon is rural, you are a moron. Full stop.
Look, really rural.
(http://res.heraldm.com/content/image/2021/03/18/20210318000897_0.jpg)
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Lots of small farmers in Africa and other places use bikes to transport their goods to distributors or markets. For them, bikes are a godsend.
You can't feed cities of 10 million on subsistence farmers bringing in an extra bushel of sweet potatoes from their harvest on bicycles in autumn.
You need imported or domestic out-of-season greenhouse grown crops, transported over long distances in an efficient manner, as well as refridgerated/frozen/canned/bulk dry goods. Those require trucks.
City-folk would starve themselves within a month if all their ideas were actually put into practice.
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Yeah, people who think Suwon is rural are really, really dumb.
I'm not asking you to like it, or live there. Or even visit. But if you genuinely think Suwon is rural, you are a moron. Full stop.
Look, really rural.
(http://res.heraldm.com/content/image/2021/03/18/20210318000897_0.jpg)
That's ... a really amazing photo. It reminds me of a uni instructor in my area whose hobby is flying drones. He occasionally posts some absolutely gorgeous photos of my town on our FB page. (yes, our town of 25,000 has an active facebook group. We're just that cool.)
Did you snap that, or is it stock from the webz?
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Seoulites may think you live 'rural' because you're in the Seoul urban spread, but they're morons and their city is a shithole.
Why did you quote me when you posted that and wrote "rural" in quotations as if you're quoting me? I never said Seoulites consider my location "rural." That would be an impossible conclusion to reach. But, they look down on the suburbs the same way as a Torontonian I look down on places look Burlington or Ajax as places to live. I don't consider them rural and don't look down on the people, just to be clear.
But, with that Seoul is a shithole sentiment you're expressing, I'm starting to get where your stand on bike lanes is coming from. Big city envy/resentment?
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That's ... a really amazing photo. It reminds me of a uni instructor in my area whose hobby is flying drones. He occasionally posts some absolutely gorgeous photos of my town on our FB page. (yes, our town of 25,000 has an active facebook group. We're just that cool.)
Did you snap that, or is it stock from the webz?
There are some high rises there where that photo could have been taken from. On a somewhat side note, that Woncheon Lake area was somewhat rural when I first stumbled upon it while out walking in 2003. There was this really crappy amusement park type place at one end called Woncheon Resort and some dilapidated looking restaurants on the water. You could also rent those swan pedal boats. No apartments there whatsoever. I went on the bumper cars and it was as if someone removed anything that limited the speed. Didn't have the courage to ride the rusty Ferris wheel. They had a mini zoo with such exotic creatures as white chickens and some golden retrievers. When some Korean friends took me there years later to show me a new restaurant they had opened I didn't even recognize I was at the same place. Great area to walk around now.
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I went on the bumper cars and it was as if someone removed anything that limited the speed.
Isn't this a feature and not a bug?
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Isn't this a feature and not a bug?
It was great. Could really build up some ramming speed if you could avoid the others cars for a lap. Korea was a little less stringent on the safety codes when this dump was set up.
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You can't feed cities of 10 million on subsistence farmers bringing in an extra bushel of sweet potatoes from their harvest on bicycles in autumn.
You need imported or domestic out-of-season greenhouse grown crops, transported over long distances in an efficient manner, as well as refridgerated/frozen/canned/bulk dry goods. Those require trucks.
City-folk would starve themselves within a month if all their ideas were actually put into practice.
Not everyone lives in a city of 10 million. Heck, not everyone has refrigeration.
What does your farm produce, country boy?
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Not everyone lives in a city of 10 million. Heck, not everyone has refrigeration.
What does your farm produce, country boy?
You can't feed a city of 100,000 with subsistence farming and random bushels of sweet potatoes on bikes. You need at least plantation level output.
You can feed a city of 1,000,000 using pre-industrial methods, the only problem is you get periodic famines. You also get a substantial decrease in food variety.
Please tell me how you plan to get substantial quantities of fresh fruit and vegetables (or canned) into and around the city during the dead of winter without motorized transport.
I suppose you could bring bat horses, but I think the animal rights people will kick up a fuss. That and the whole streets filled with piss and sh*t thing.
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You can't feed a city of 100,000 with subsistence farming.
Well, I mean, per definition, you can't feed a city of *any* size with subsistence farming.
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Well, I mean, per definition, you can't feed a city of *any* size with subsistence farming.
You could sort of. 10,000. Maybe even 50,000 in places with year-round growth and decent fishing and pastures nearby. I mean we did get ancient cities. But it ain't easy. Industrialization and motorized transport just make it so much easier and much more margin for error. You aren't going to have a food panic because once a decade the temperatures dropped below freezing.
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Well, I mean, per definition, you can't feed a city of *any* size with subsistence farming.
"Oh, you English teachers on an English teachers' site. With your dictionaries and definitions. Meanings change, words mean what we want them to! Therefore you are wrong for using the dictionary." --a small handful of contrarians and dingbats, probably
Edit a few seconds later:
See!?
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"Oh, you English teachers on an English teachers' site. With your dictionaries and definitions. Meanings change, words mean what we want them to! Therefore you are wrong for using the dictionary." --a small handful of contrarians and dingbats, probably
Imagine being an English teacher and a speaker of English and thinking that words DON'T change meaning and people adapt them to mean what they want to.
Definitions work when they are mutually agreed upon as an arbiter OR as a method to explain something. They are not codified law. The only people who get worked up over this are people with control issues and OCD types.
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Imagine being an English teacher and a speaker of English and thinking that words DON'T change meaning and people adapt them to mean what they want to.
Definitions work when they are mutually agreed upon as an arbiter OR as a method to explain something. They are not codified law. The only people who get worked up over this are people with control issues and OCD types.
Imagine being anyone and thinking "subsistence farming" means anything other than "farming at a subsistence level."
It is to laugh.
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You could sort of. 10,000. Maybe even 50,000 in places with year-round growth and decent fishing and pastures nearby. I mean we did get ancient cities. But it ain't easy. Industrialization and motorized transport just make it so much easier and much more margin for error. You aren't going to have a food panic because once a decade the temperatures dropped below freezing.
I meant "subsistence farming" as in farming only enough to feed oneself.
According to wiki, the average population density that subsistence farming can support is 0.1 people per square kilometer. You would need an area the size of Great Britain to support only 2,000 people if they were all strictly subsistence farming. (I suspect these numbers are true only if one is sitting very close to the bottom of the tech-tree, but one gets the gist of the idea).
True, I suppose it might be technically possible to feed a city if there are especially resource dense areas nearby like fisheries or a migration path of a large animal, but then it's not really farming anymore.
Even the earliest cities depended on specialization in order to function. The whole *point* of early cities was to capitalize on newly developed agricultural technology and use specialist farmers to support various other trades.
The "history of cities" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_city) wiki is actually a pretty cool read. I've looked at it before a couple of times, and every time I do, I get all nostalgic about the first dozen or so turns in Civ5, which were always my favourite (I'd often reset after the initial phase, because the rest is just grinding out a path already chosen. Boo.).
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Imagine being an English teacher and a speaker of English and thinking that words DON'T change meaning and people adapt them to mean what they want to.
Definitions work when they are mutually agreed upon as an arbiter OR as a method to explain something. They are not codified law. The only people who get worked up over this are people with control issues and OCD types.
You got very worked up over exactly this when you were being told by a whole host of people that you were not the final arbiter of how to use the term " a host of..." So, is this you coming out of the OCD and control issues closet? You know, we all knew. Don't sweat it.
And if this is you actually making this claim in earnest, after the very public meltdown you had in that very recent thread, I just don't know what to make of it.
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You got very worked up over exactly this when you were being told by a whole host of people that you were not the final arbiter of how to use the term " a host of..." So, is this you coming out of the OCD and control issues closet? You know, we all knew. Don't sweat it.
And if this is you actually making this claim in earnest, after the very public meltdown you had in that very recent thread, I just don't know what to make of it.
Apparently, there are a host of people who don't know the meaning of "subsistence farming".
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You got very worked up over exactly this when you were being told by a whole host of people that you were not the final arbiter of how to use the term " a host of..." So, is this you coming out of the OCD and control issues closet? You know, we all knew. Don't sweat it.
And if this is you actually making this claim in earnest, after the very public meltdown you had in that very recent thread, I just don't know what to make of it.
This isn't some colloquialism that is being used by a bunch of people. This was someone deliberately exaggerating and misstating things, then retroactively applying a definition to win an argument. This isn't the case of slang where a bunch of people start to use a term to describe something.
If you can't see the difference between the two, you're an idiot.
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This isn't some colloquialism that is being used by a bunch of people. This was someone deliberately exaggerating and misstating things, then retroactively applying a definition to win an argument. This isn't the case of slang where a bunch of people start to use a term to describe something.
If you can't see the difference between the two, you're an idiot.
What, that host is a word with many shades of meaning and subsistence farming means exactly and only one thing?
Yeah, we can all see that. Why can't you?
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Just like aspects of farming, Marty’s arguments are unsustainable.
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(https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/metalgear/images/f/f1/Subcover.jpg)
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Apparently, there are a host of people who don't know the meaning of "subsistence farming".
Subsistence farming can still result in minimal surpluses, such as the amount that could be carried on a bicycle. Look it up.
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stop saying... if you ________ then you're an idiot. if you dont stop doing that, then you're an idiot
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It is true.
When people talk about modern subsistence farming, they're usually talking about farming with "little or no surplus". Whatever isn't directly eaten is used as barter for other necessary items.
It's not subsistence in the strictest sense, as there *is* trade of surplus, but economists don't care because it doesn't directly contribute to an economy, so the term gets used for that.
Point is, though, that this kind of farming -- even with bartering of minimal surpluses -- isn't enough to entirely support additional people. This would preclude the existence of cities where specialist farmers are required to sustain (relatively) high population densities.
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What, that host is a word with many shades of meaning and subsistence farming means exactly and only one thing?
Host is always used to refer to a large number when used in terms of quantity. There is no popular usage of it otherwise.
Subsistence farming can nominally support support small cities. (10,000) How do we know this? Prior to the rise of cities we only had subsistence farming. Subsistence farmers came together to create the first settlements. Subsistence farming persisted in many areas into the 20th century pre-large scale industrial interaction and also supported some settlements.
But, yes the point is that while it has in practice, it has been incredibly unstable and prone to famine.
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Host is always used to refer to a large number when used in terms of quantity. There is no popular usage of it otherwise.
Subsistence farming can nominally support support small cities. (10,000) How do we know this? Prior to the rise of cities we only had subsistence farming. Subsistence farmers came together to create the first settlements. Subsistence farming persisted in many areas into the 20th century pre-large scale industrial interaction and also supported some settlements.
Yeah, that's what we've been saying. Only an idiot wouldn't understand that ...
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Point is, though, that this kind of farming -- even with bartering of minimal surpluses -- isn't enough to entirely support additional people. This would preclude the existence of cities where specialist farmers are required to sustain (relatively) high population densities.
I think part of it is what gets termed "city" now vs. ancient times is completely different. In ancient times, the "big" cities were often anywhere from 5-20,000 people. Little more than towns today. You did get some that reached 100,000 in ancient times. Their techniques and crop yields probably weren't that substantial compared to today's subsistence farmers, but differing levels of calorie intake, food being used as taxation, etc. enabled cities to grow with subsistence peasant farmers.
However, as I said, this was all incredibly unstable. Also, it was often accompanied by pastures and fishing, as well as raiding and conquest.
Anyways, back to the original point- It would be virtually impossible impossible to support a city with bicycles and the random bushel of sweet potatoes or corn being brought in on bike.
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Yeah, that's what we've been saying. Only an idiot wouldn't understand that ...
First you agreed that by definition subsistence farming didn't permit any the feeding of a city of ANY size.
Now you agree that subsistence farming can allow for what, at the time, were major settlements and what are historically referred to as cities.
Dude, you need to give up your obsession with me.
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First you agreed that by definition subsistence farming didn't permit any the feeding of a city of ANY size.
Now you agree that subsistence farming can allow for what, at the time, were major settlements and what are historically referred to as cities.
Dude, you need to give up your obsession with me.
Sorry you write so poorly. You included subsistence farming with several other kinds of farming but actually conflated them.
Start with the bit about prior to the rise of cities... Prior (to us yokels who use the dictionary) means before. So yes, it was subsistence farming before the rise of cities. Then it changed. I agree.
I let some of it slide but I take it back since you’re being such a jerk.
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Marty sure loves “crap rotation”.
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Sorry you write so poorly. You included subsistence farming with several other kinds of farming but actually conflated them.
Start with the bit about prior to the rise of cities... Prior (to us yokels who use the dictionary) means before. So yes, it was subsistence farming before the rise of cities. Then it changed. I agree.
I let some of it slide but I take it back since you’re being such a jerk.
I did not conflate subsistence farming with pre-industrial farming. I differentiated between the two. Pre-industrial farming could produce sizable cities, i.e. the biggest cities of Ancient Rome, the Medieval period, China, India, Mesoamerica, etc. Subsistence farming enabled the rise of the first city states in the various areas from which they sprang up. These cities would vary in size (I think the biggest were 50 or 100k but might be smaller and typically were so). Nowadays those would barely qualify as a "city". Many others wouldn't.
Anyways, dude, you seem to be way to concerned with every little thing I post here.
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I get all nostalgic about the first dozen or so turns in Civ5, which were always my favourite (I'd often reset after the initial phase, because the rest is just grinding out a path already chosen. Boo.).
The ancient expansion era is great. The renaissance to industrial era where you race for tech and to get a leg up is great too. After that WWII-era is fun.
Then the game gets all stupid with Giant Death Robots and X-Com soldiers and whatever.
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martini's farm boy posts are an excellent example of the response one gets when yelling out to prevent a Korean walking into you.
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martini's farm boy posts are an excellent example of the response one gets when yelling out to prevent a Korean walking into you.
Me and Kyndo seem to be having a perfectly reasonable discussion on agriculture and the rise of civilization, as well as what levels can support various levels of settlement.
Others seem interested in little more than turning this into an extension of their ongoing personal issues with me.
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Me and Kyndo seem to be having a perfectly reasonable discussion on agriculture and the rise of civilization, as well as what levels can support various levels of settlement.
Others seem interested in little more than turning this into an extension of their ongoing personal issues with me.
Playing your “Kyndo-got-me-out-of-jail-free” card again.
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Me and Kyndo seem to be having a perfectly reasonable discussion on agriculture and the rise of civilization, as well as what levels can support various levels of settlement.
Others seem interested in little more than turning this into an extension of their ongoing personal issues with me.
But it’s fine when you derail thread after thread for years? Got it.
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Life in high sch... er... I mean, Cliqueville.
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Marty's arguments bit like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRPcssq-7Us
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Playing your “Kyndo-got-me-out-of-jail-free” card again.
Hello Mrs Pentherby
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I really do live rent-free in some of ya'll's head.
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Jesus, I forgot I posted a comment here sometime last week or something and I come back and there are like 5 pages of people bitching about it lmao.
I'm sorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr y.
Some of you need to seriously just chill out a little bit though,
I can't tell what are jokes / serious. If some of this shit you guys fight about is for real, for your health's sake, you need to just chill and log out for a bit.
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Jesus, I forgot I posted a comment here sometime last week or something and I come back and there are like 5 pages of people bitching about it lmao.
I'm sorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr y.
Some of you need to seriously just chill out a little bit though,
I can't tell what are jokes / serious. If some of this shit you guys fight about is for real, for your health's sake, you need to just chill and log out for a bit.
Don't worry. It really boils down to the fact that you should stop riding your bike on the pavement. Especially up around Incheon, where the cities are apparently nothing but bike lanes.
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Don't worry. It really boils down to the fact that you should stop riding your bike on the pavement. Especially up around Incheon, where the cities are apparently nothing but bike lanes.
Oh, they are like that around Incheon, too? Good to know.
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Don't worry. It really boils down to the fact that you should stop riding your bike on the pavement. Especially up around Incheon, where the cities are apparently nothing but bike lanes.
I'll just end this with a polite, you're correct good sir. :wink:
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Oh, they are like that around Incheon, too? Good to know.
Unfortunately not. I HAVE seen some places like Songdo with a lot of them though. However in my area, I'd say about 2-3% of the roads have a bike lane. Completely depends on the area.
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Unfortunately not. I HAVE seen some places like Songdo with a lot of them though. However in my area, I'd say about 2-3% of the roads have a bike lane. Completely depends on the area.
Alright, at this point it's clear that Augustiner is just making it all up!
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Alright, at this point it's clear that Augustiner is just making it all up!
You're still worked up about this? I was mocking your assertion about Incheon and bike lanes. You didn't pick up on that? I have no idea about Incheon and bike lanes. Never lived there.
Again, spend some time in the greater Gyeonggi do area. Bike lanes are everywhere. I travel through three cities everyday at minimum and they're all over. Why does this upset you so much? You were wrong. Get over it and move on.
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You're still worked up about this? I was mocking your assertion about Incheon and bike lanes. You didn't pick up on that? I have no idea about Incheon and bike lanes. Never lived there.
Again, spend some time in the greater Gyeonggi do area. Bike lanes are everywhere. I travel through three cities everyday at minimum and they're all over. Why does this upset you so much? You were wrong. Get over it and move on.
Amused, not upset.
But asking me to spend some time in Gyeonggi-do? Now that's going to make me upset.
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A girl and her mother, she about 25 or so and mother about 50/55 were talking cherry blossom photos staring upwards and walked off pedestrian zone straight into my path on the bike zone. I had taken Berkshires walking into my cycle zone into account and had reduced speed however she stepped in front of me from nowhere and had I crashed into her, it would be very bad for her. So I crashed aways and made a mess of my palm.
I was a snarling mess thereafter with her crying and mother pleading. My new Nike track pant, 200,000 was a mess and I want the money for it. My shattered palm can be sorted without going to hospital. The announcement that I want money for my torn pant led to more crying by the girl and the money was in disbelief that it cost that much so I called the police.
Police promptly announced they had committed a road traffic offence, I knew this, most people do not. Police then wanted me to go to hospital, one was conveniently behind us. Now, I could do this but it will cost them maybe 1 million maybe more, money they obviously don't have so I told police men, no, its fine. I want 200,000 won for my pant as I won't let that slide. There has ro be consequences for idiocy.
Also, I had a minor car park prang twice and on both occasions, the greedy busterds made me pay almost 2.5 million won. I am no longer in a charitable mood here.
If someone strays into your path on a cycle lay and you recklessly mow them down in pursuit of a stubborn they should not have walked into my path frolic; you will be jailed here or in UK. Plus those hospital bills.
I got my 200,000 won, my hand was in pain for 3 months but I was not looking to ruin them despite their idiocy. I suspect she will be careful in future hence making her pay. It could have cost them millions....lucky I am not Korean so did not see the opportunity of making some money.
I think parents pass on they own inability to navigate urban areas with the required level of common sense to there kids. A lot of people moved and are moving to Seoul from hamlets...might explain the lack of spatial awareness
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It's a f-ing mystery what does or doesn't go through people's heads here when moving through public spaces.
At the office I work at, there are some double-doors, the one on the right is always fixed. Yet regular clients will still try to walk through that door, every f-ing time, despite coming here a million times, and always with an "oh" said in surprise
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I suspect she will be careful in future hence making her pay. It could have cost them millions....lucky I am not Korean so did not see the opportunity of making some money.
Unfortunately, you are wrong. She will not learn from her mistake. Next time, make more money off the situation. Like you said, don't be charitable for their clearly stupid and selfish behavior.
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The missus can't walk straight either. I'm always redirecting her out on the footpath.
I'm tall and just herd my gf with my side into what direction I want her to go. She pointed that out once on holiday overseas. I never said anything, I just nudged her a certain way. She thought it was funny and we didn't have to interrupt our conversation. Quite effective.
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Lol...that's pretty much what I do as well, except me being on the shortish side of medium, have to redirect by gently leaning with my shoulder. Have a good holiday in Thailand :smiley:
Thanks. First time in 11 years.
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Usually I would just move out of the way and let them pass. I usually try to pay attention to my surroundings. No drama, no harm, no foul. I've accidentally walked into a couple of Koreans in my time. It was a mistake and each victim was cool about it. Perhaps I've been lucky.
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I'm 6'1, 220 lbs and my glasses are polychromatic (go dark, become quickly sunglasses, in daylight outside), so i can count on one hand the number of times i have had a problem with a Korean man; older Korean women, with visors especially of advanced years, i gtf out of her way! (I have had subway and sidewalk bruises as lessons learned.)
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I'm 6'1, 220 lbs and my glasses are polychromatic (go dark, become quickly sunglasses, in daylight outside), so i can count on one hand the number of times i have had a problem with a Korean man; older Korean women, with visors especially of advanced years, i gtf out of her way! (I have had subway and sidewalk bruises as lessons learned.)
I used to have a pair of those in high school. But after about 6 months, they stayed kind of dark even indoors.
Has the technology improved?
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I used to have a pair of those in high school. But after about 6 months, they stayed kind of dark even indoors.
Has the technology improved?
Yes! I have a pair that has lasted over 3 years: gets dark within seconds outside and becomes clear within a minute inside. No more cap needed on a bright sunny day!
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Yes! I have a pair that has lasted over 3 years: gets dark within seconds outside and becomes clear within a minute inside. No more cap needed on a bright sunny day!
Do you happen to remember the brand?
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Do you happen to remember the brand?
Brand? *shrug* I have two pairs, from different shops. I just walk in, tell them what i want, choose my frames, they check my eyes to see the strength of lenses needed, and I come back two days later, and voila!
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I'm 6'1, 220 lbs
I remember when you posted about being 320 pounds... so.... you lost 100 pounds and kept it off? Amazing! Congratulations! Any good tips or things you've learned in that journey?
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I did lose 100 pounds in 1 year. I've told the story before: one year of no carbs other than lemons, green leafy veggies, onions, garlic, peppers (get my vitamin c and other phytonutrients) and four squares (never 5, never 3) of 80% cacao chocolate. Drink only tea, black coffee and water with squeezed lemon. Salmon midmorning with olive oil, mushrooms and onions. Packed the same meal every day for work: one boiled egg with black pepper, half a bell pepper, that four-square 80% cacao, a boiled chicken breast with hot sauce (Tobasco only has peppers, vinegar and salt) and a long green onion. And a full palm of nuts or seeds as a snack. I never ate after the 4:45 pm to 5pm dinner break. I went to bed regularly, and early, waking up hungry in the morning, having a big morning cup of tea after a large glass of ice cold water with or without squeezed lemon. Oh, and once a month on a Saturday afternoon i treated myself to pizza toppings: i'd order a large pizza delivered, then slide/push all the toppings, cheese and sauce onto a plate and use a fork to put some in a green leaf and eat: yum (and it didn't put a dent in the weight loss pace, i weighing myself every Sunday morning, documenting it, to visually see the progress). I was in ketosis with the low-carb self-designed, satisfying diet. I never felt urges other than for carbs: onions and peppers met that need.
I learned that the human body craves carbs, as onions tasted sooooo good! I even dreamt about onions. I'd eat a raw white onion with joy, holding it like an apple as i munched.
I also learned how easy food shopping can be if you have the same routine: you buy the same things in the same amount at the same times of the month.
My body was consistently losing weight, so i never waivered from the plan. And there were no 'What to eat?' decisions needed to be made. My biggest decision was whether to have another cup of this herbal tea, that herbal tea, or go lemon in ice water with cubes.
After 9 months though, I still had 20 pounds to go, so i went all-kinds-of-veggie-veggies-only (but no potatoes of any kind, no beans, no rice) vegan, and it worked. Pumpkin porridge with sprinkled ginger was a go-to breakfast. But it felt like my shoulders were eating themselves, losing muscle mass as well as midsection. My energy level was very low for most of the time. The only exercise i did was walk.
All that done, alas, after the year i mistakenly went back to bad habits like eating noodles after work: 9pm, 10pm, and i no longer refused to go out to dinner when invited after work. I gained weight back. I then read a lot about intermittent fasting, and learned to cook various bean dishes (using the onion and pepper taste i'd cultivated). I now eat meat only with friends in restaurants or at a friend's home, once a week or less.
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What does this boring ramble have to do with the topic at hand?
*wait, just read the rest of this boring thread. Boring posters being boring. Have at it, boomers. Congratulations on not being obese.
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What does this boring ramble have to do with the topic at hand?
Perhaps being thinner decreases his physical profile, meaning he takes up less width of a thoroughfare, thereby decreasing the chances of collision.
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South Korea needs to bring in one more member so it can be 'The Sex'.