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All about South Korea => Life in Korea => Topic started by: Sagi Keun on April 10, 2022, 09:06:40 pm

Title: The problem with waygooks.
Post by: Sagi Keun on April 10, 2022, 09:06:40 pm

Most of the problems I have had in Korea have stemmed from other foreigners.


 The amount of insecure foreign coworkers who will try to sabotage or "out-compete" you is insane. 
Maybe its just westerners. Seem to be an awful lot of trolls and fake people among the foreigners that wash up here.


Koreans are polite and easy going in a way that westerners have forgotten.
Title: Re: The problem with waygooks.
Post by: gogators! on April 11, 2022, 12:12:12 am
Most of the problems I have had in Korea have stemmed from other foreigners.


 The amount of insecure foreign coworkers who will try to sabotage or "out-compete" you is insane. 
Maybe its just westerners. Seem to be an awful lot of trolls and fake people among the foreigners that wash up here.


Koreans are polite and easy going in a way that westerners have forgotten.
This seems to contradict your post concerning Korean friends. Probably any posts you made on the sleep-deprived Koreans thread as well.
Title: Re: The problem with waygooks.
Post by: VanIslander on April 11, 2022, 02:53:41 am
The problem with waygooks is they...

A) aren't friendly
B) are hard to find
C) come and go too often
D) are superficial/newbie like

I think the correct answer is C, but i ain't sure.

In my years here, I have had 5 very good friends, 3 of them best buds, and only one hasn't been Korean. It's largely because of ABC & D.
Title: Re: The problem with waygooks.
Post by: Kyndo on April 11, 2022, 07:53:57 am
Join sports / hobby clubs: plenty of friendly waygs around.
 I agree that sometimes it feels pretty bad to get emotionally invested in a relationship that you know has an expiry date coming up quickly, but sometimes it can be kinda liberating as well. Like 'em and leave 'em, I say!  :laugh:

And of course, just because a friend moves away doesn't necessarily mean that the relationship is over: I've had plenty of close-ish friends who've left Korea and with whom I stay stay in touch with. The miracle of social media, I guess.
Title: Re: The problem with waygooks.
Post by: sesameoil on April 11, 2022, 10:17:04 am
> tfw when move to Korea to be friends with foreigners

Why honestly? They're not going to take you to any good restaurants, any special experiences, improve your Korean, or hook you with dates like Koreans do. There are literally no benefits of being friends with other waygooks here
Title: Re: The problem with waygooks.
Post by: AshCha on April 11, 2022, 10:22:53 am
> tfw when move to Korea to be friends with foreigners

Why honestly? They're not going to take you to any good restaurants, any special experiences, improve your Korean, or hook you with dates like Koreans do. There are literally no benefits of being friends with other waygooks here

I think the fact that you can speak with them is the biggest benefit.

If you live in smaller towns, you often find you don't have any other options.
Title: Re: The problem with waygooks.
Post by: kevingrabb on April 11, 2022, 10:30:07 am
> tfw when move to Korea to be friends with foreigners

Why honestly? They're not going to take you to any good restaurants, any special experiences, improve your Korean, or hook you with dates like Koreans do. There are literally no benefits of being friends with other waygooks here

Because it's nice to talk to people with absolutely no cultural or linguistic filters? I love Koreans and I have a lot of Korean friends but I don't talk to them like I do my North American friends.
Title: Re: The problem with waygooks.
Post by: sesameoil on April 11, 2022, 10:38:00 am
Because it's nice to talk to people with absolutely no cultural or linguistic filters? I love Koreans and I have a lot of Korean friends but I don't talk to them like I do my North American friends.

That's so lame if I wanted friends with no cultural or linguistic filters I would still be in Florida
Title: Re: The problem with waygooks.
Post by: kevingrabb on April 11, 2022, 10:57:36 am
That's so lame if I wanted friends with no cultural or linguistic filters I would still be in Florida

So your solution is to only have friends where you need filters?

Balance, dude. Jesus.

 :undecided: "Sesame Oil, why are you friends with me?"

 :afro: You take me to good restaurants, special experiences, improve my Korean, and hook me up with dates.

 :undecided: -->  >:(

 
Title: Re: The problem with waygooks.
Post by: hangook77 on April 11, 2022, 12:24:49 pm
I remember when I first got here.  There were much less foreigners.  Some were still in their clicks even then but others would be friendly and happy to see a fellow foreigner.  Heck even the Mormon missionaries got a chatting to.  (They were here to convert Koreans, not me.  So they didn't care about that.  We just talked football and a few then weird Korean habits.)  You saw another white person you were almost on cloud nine.  I was out in the country so I either met them in my town or going to visit a nearby larger city.  Often the "white people" you met were Europeans travelling speaking good English, a couple of Israelis, etc.  That was cool too.  Korea was not as well know and it was more of an enigma and mystery.  You also had a chance of getting screwed by your employer so it was a gamble.  A lot more of the esl teachers were independent and risk takers, etc.  Todays esl teachers took very few risks, know how things are, and are probably more needy and babied and less independent.    Korea is almost like living in a different country in 2022 compared to 12 or 16 years ago. 

Occasionally you'd meet an esler and they'd be happy to chat with you even in Seoul.  Though Seoul did have quite a few clicky ones who just stayed in their own groups.  I said hi nice to meet some fellow foreigners and they said hey and kept on walking.  I thought that was rude.  But most foroeigners weren't like that back then.  Most would hang with you go grab a drink and be happy to meet someone else who spoke English.  Today, I'd say most of the foreigners are more like the clicky ones.  I do say hi to some and some say hi to me.  But often we just seem to leave each other alone. 

Korea has made me lose some of my being social I am sad to say.  Though Koreans use to be very standoffish years ago and not many would talk to you except for the kids. I was out in the country in a different era.  On the one hand many women didn't want to be seen near a foreigner.  Racism was strong.  But also there was a lot of white guy curiosity too.   My first year and a half, met so many and often they approached me.  But I know some other guys in small towns nearby who got none of that.  But after I had been there a while it fizzled out.  I had to travel to date, but that got expensive especially after the exchange rate tanked and I had to send more won home to pay my debts back in Canada.  I'd say Korea is friendlier nowadays that way.  But fugly guys who want a girl to here to flip out over them for being white are too late for that.  They are 20 years too late for that.  In the 80s and 90s eslers made good money in relation to the living costs here and even some professional jobs.  There was more of a gold digging mindset back then so a really good looking woman would go for a nerdy guy.  But by the late 90's that was already dying out until the Asian crises set it back.  But by 2002, foreigner racism which always existed went more after English teachers,  It was this era which Psy made the controversial statement about killing Americans and their families and the song F**king USA (modeled after surfing USA) came out.  I came here at the end of this era still being niave and not knowing until 3 or 4 year later.  But it seemed to have died out and gone underground by this time.  Last openly racist incident was the racist MBC story about 10 years ago.  By the time I got here there was a hate even from some K chicks at this time (though I was immune to it from some it seemed). 

There also use to be a lot of weirdos as Korea hired anyone with a degree and a pulse.  We had all the power and they'd bend over backwards to both accommodate us and welcome us.  But there were folks with criminal records and weirdos who did too much drugs in their youth.  Also, many running from a divorce, child support, and or student loans.  In fact a foreign friend who ran an English academy and hired the odd foreigner himself and was here for a few years longer than me kept telling me how "normal" I was.  So there were definitely some bottom feeders.  Plenty of regular cool folks too.  Folks were more sociable and happier to meet a foreigner back then.  Today, many seem more likely to keep to themselves and not care about meeting another foreigner.   (I guess myself included as the place has made me less sociable then when I first came here.)

Those first 2 or 3 years at the end of the golden age were the best of times and the worst of times.  Korea today is a much more modern, the rules are followed more, you can legally and more easily go after your school for not paying your wages, etc.  There is much less of a risk coming here.  You use to have to be more of a risk taker and be willing to jump in not knowing what to expect.  I applied to a recruiter to see what he'd get me.  To my surprise he sent me to an English village which disappeared at the last minute for some reason, then I got transferred to some countryside public schools. No EPIK interview or documents or any of that crap.  I could just as easily gotten a hakwon which would have screwed me over.  Korea had less rules, were more happy to meet a foreigner, and in general more chill, relaxed, and slack.  It just had an easy going vibe to it and the pay was really good.  It had more of a developing country look to the place even though it was legally considered a developed country.  It was also a lot more openly racists at the same time, especially if a foreign man dated a K woman.  If a K guy dated a foreign woman it was considered a conquest and no one said boo about it.  (Though western women rarely dated or were into Korean guys until the last few years.  Younger Korean guys have different behaviors today compared to 15 or 20 years ago.  So there is that too.)

So, not sure what problems there are in general anymore.  Everyone keeps mostly to their own group or click compared to the past.  Less weirdos but probably still a few.  I will say nowadays even out in the country there will be many foreigners compared to only 2 or 3 in the past.  That can be a blessing or a curse.  It depends on how clicky or gossipy people are or even if they act like idiots and you want to distance yourself from them. 
Title: Re: The problem with waygooks.
Post by: SPQR on April 11, 2022, 09:33:17 pm
I've had two people screw me over in Korea. One a waygook, the other a Korean.

1/ The waygook had a hagwon and I needed a visa. He said we should be partners.
He got me to put up 12,000,000KRW for half the key money of this office space. I did
this and actually got a visa. He then disappeared after getting 24,000,000KRW back from
the landlord a few months later when the lease ended. The fact is I had known this guy,
and his wife, for a few years and regularly lent them money for their business. It is
remarkably easy to scam people who trust you. BTW, his name is Tim Moore from B.C.
He said he had a degree but disappeared shortly after the apostille thing came into being.

2/ The second was a Korean girl I was dating. Unbelievable in the sack. Then a friend of
hers, who introduced us, managed to get the attention of my gonads. The first girl obviously
felt extremely jilted. She remembered me smoking some weed and fabricated a story to
the police that I was a user and a dealer. One night I got home and when I opened the door
to the apartment it was full of cops. They cuffed me and the new girl and sat us on the sofa
and then proceeded to search everywhere. (Korea had been dry for months at that particular
time.) They found nothing and took us in a van to a dark basement of a major police station.
For some unknown reason they left us alone. I said to her, "Deny everything. We have no drugs.
We have never done drugs. We hate drugs." Well, that was a good thing because then they
separated us and screamed, cajoled and threatened us until about 3am. They pee tested us
and it was negative. Then they pee tested again, labelled it and sent it to Seoul. After that
they gave us 10,000KRW and sent us home in a taxi.

That 12,000,000KRW would come in handy. And that evil hell hath no fury girl still makes
me smile.
Title: Re: The problem with waygooks.
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on April 12, 2022, 01:56:03 pm
People want to read that which has substance...that which is insightful. Or at least they should.

Quote
...that which has relevance to their life, that which is deep,...
These two things are not always in alignment and in fact, are frequently at odds.

Based on what people read, it seems like this-
People want to read about the big scandal of the day, the death/murder of the day, the social outrage of the day, celebrities, sports, the comics, their stocks, the classifieds/personal ads, pets, fashion and food, and finally they want to read about the minutiae of international politics or the latest literary/theater event.
Title: Re: The problem with waygooks.
Post by: 745sticky on April 12, 2022, 02:02:55 pm
on the bright side a lot of vacancies in china are about to open up
Title: Re: The problem with waygooks.
Post by: Renma on April 12, 2022, 02:10:16 pm
ahh damn it mods, I missed it when something entertaining finally occurred.
Title: Re: The problem with waygooks.
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on April 12, 2022, 02:21:13 pm
ahh damn it mods, I missed it when something entertaining finally occurred.
Well, lets try.

"I miss the good ol days before everyone had a youtube channel about their various alcoholic adventures or them eating spicy donkass. That crowd has totally ruined Korea!"
Title: Re: The problem with waygooks.
Post by: Mr C on April 12, 2022, 07:05:46 pm
I remember when I first got here.  There were much less foreigners.  Some were still in their clicks

...many fewer ... cliques

"This is a site dedicated to helping teachers."
Title: Re: The problem with waygooks.
Post by: Adel on April 12, 2022, 07:15:21 pm
Yeah, but ragging on hangook is so cliché.  ;D
Title: Re: The problem with waygooks.
Post by: gogators! on April 12, 2022, 11:44:54 pm
These two things are not always in alignment and in fact, are frequently at odds.

Based on what people read, it seems like this-
People want to read about the big scandal of the day, the death/murder of the day, the social outrage of the day, celebrities, sports, the comics, their stocks, the classifieds/personal ads, pets, fashion and food, and finally they want to read about the minutiae of international politics or the latest literary/theater event.
You forgot horoscopes.
Title: Re: The problem with waygooks.
Post by: KimDuHan on April 13, 2022, 12:44:38 am
Waygooks come and go too often that is the problem. 1-5 years in a foreign country can make people do shady things. Waygooks who know they are leaving don’t care about lying, stealing and cheating people over.

There are a lot of waygooks that literally just screw over Koreans and waygooks a like.

There are also waygooks who are good and honest.

Personally though waygooks are usually here for money and fun which means they don’t care about the country and people in it.
Title: Re: The problem with waygooks.
Post by: 745sticky on April 13, 2022, 07:34:30 am
ahh damn it mods, I missed it when something entertaining finally occurred.

i like how they left my post up while removing every shred of context around it so it looks like a random statement by a crazy person
Title: Re: The problem with waygooks.
Post by: Kyndo on April 13, 2022, 07:39:26 am
i like how they left my post up while removing every shred of context around it so it looks like a random statement by a crazy person
It's part of our long term character assassination campaign. Just wait and see what we have in store for you next month!
Title: Re: The problem with waygooks.
Post by: gogators! on April 13, 2022, 06:13:09 pm
Waygooks come and go too often that is the problem. 1-5 years in a foreign country can make people do shady things. Waygooks who know they are leaving don’t care about lying, stealing and cheating people over.

There are a lot of waygooks that literally just screw over Koreans and waygooks a like.

There are also waygooks who are good and honest.

Personally though waygooks are usually here for money and fun which means they don’t care about the country and people in it.
I think this a good summation.
Title: Re: The problem with waygooks.
Post by: KimchiNinja on April 20, 2022, 05:43:48 am
Koreans are polite and easy going in a way that westerners have forgotten.

Forgotten, the West is culturally degenerating…or never knew, they never had Confucian humanism in the first place.
Title: Re: The problem with waygooks.
Post by: gogators! on April 20, 2022, 06:45:03 am
Forgotten, the West is culturally degenerating…or never knew, they never had Confucian humanism in the first place.
No, thankfully Confucianism never spread to the West.
Title: Re: The problem with waygooks.
Post by: AshCha on April 20, 2022, 09:05:22 am
Confucianism the basically medieval Christianity but with an Emperor at the top instead of God.
Title: Re: The problem with waygooks.
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on April 20, 2022, 09:47:41 am
The fact that most people don't realize that basically all cultures that rose to the level of civilization and commerce were all really oppressive and backwards until about 1950 is comical.
Title: Re: The problem with waygooks.
Post by: KimchiNinja on April 20, 2022, 10:18:28 am
Merely mention different cultures as existing, and the bigots on here melt down.

That’s the culture of Western “liberalism.”  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: The problem with waygooks.
Post by: Liechtenstein on April 20, 2022, 11:28:58 am
Having grown up a military brat moving around from base to base and once to a different continent, I found it quite easy to meet new people because that's all I understood. Part of the issue was also that I found it quite easy to let go of people "friends" because that's all I knew.

There's both good and bad in that I suppose. I have no real concept of home. But on the other hand, I rarely, if ever, miss a place or a person. I have no lifelong friends because I've never known anyone my entire life that has remained integral to my entire life.

It was a weird way to grow up but almost without exception, every military brat I know or knew, loved growing up that way. 
Title: Re: The problem with waygooks.
Post by: Sagi Keun on April 30, 2022, 07:14:30 pm
I have no lifelong friends because I've never known anyone my entire life that has remained integral to my entire life.   

I'm still in touch with friends from 35 years ago. Although its not what it was.

Making long term friends in Korea is really not easy however.
Title: Re: The problem with waygooks.
Post by: chimp on May 01, 2022, 03:37:27 pm
This post seems to be about lame-o TEFL-types. They are just a sucky bunch of weeners who are old hat and nobody wants to be friends with. This thread, and more widely this board, furnish ample instances of why.

That sesameoil post was dripping with a kind of pugnacious entitlement where any friendship is a barren transaction that is only desirable to the extent that it is directly beneficial to himself. Throw that sh-t the f-ck out, who wants to be friends with someone like that?

Then there's the Don Quixote-ish lolgook77. Long boring posts tilting at windmills. I was here during the period he whitters on about and basically Korea has tightened up a bit regulations-wise, and people have gotten used to seeing foreigners, most of whom aren't lame-o TEFL teachers anymore. Big ol' yawn.

Title: Re: The problem with waygooks.
Post by: gogators! on May 01, 2022, 05:25:34 pm
The fact that most people don't realize that basically all cultures that rose to the level of civilization and commerce were all really oppressive and backwards until about 1950 is comical.
Yet you support those who would like to turn back the clock and reinstate "really backward and oppressive" culture.