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All about South Korea => Life in Korea => Topic started by: SPQR on March 07, 2022, 06:59:11 am

Title: Dream Apartment
Post by: SPQR on March 07, 2022, 06:59:11 am
Wow, this place is a palace. You could pretend you are on
the set of "Parasite". Haha.

(https://images.craigslist.org/00O0O_4i4zjTIS3uRz_0kE0fu_600x450.jpg)
(https://images.craigslist.org/00K0K_3zUT1TPWP3yz_0kE0fu_600x450.jpg)
(https://images.craigslist.org/00g0g_cmKwpHQmyiKz_0kE0fu_600x450.jpg)
(https://images.craigslist.org/00f0f_ghPT7tALNGxz_0kE0fu_600x450.jpg)

https://seoul.craigslist.org/apa/d/two-bedrooms-villa-for-rent/7444854869.html
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: grimlock2 on March 07, 2022, 07:19:23 am
Looks like the home of one of those hikkamori guys
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: pkjh on March 07, 2022, 07:57:02 am
Wow, this place is a palace. You could pretend you are on
the set of "Parasite". Haha.
Only if your family of 4 are all living there.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 07, 2022, 09:39:49 am
Yeah, that's just one person with no organization, interior decorating and cleaning skills. Someone with half an ounce of skill could make that place look a lot different.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Liechtenstein on March 07, 2022, 10:09:23 am
How could anyone live like that???

The number one thing every Korean said who entered any of the apartments I lived in was "So clean!"

It takes practically  zero  effort to be clean. Cleaning that place would be  a full weekend job.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: VanIslander on March 07, 2022, 10:11:46 am
Gawd. That apartment is the size of my last bathroom.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Lazio on March 07, 2022, 10:29:22 am
I agree with Martino. While the place obviously isn't that great, with a little effort it could be much more livable.
I lived in a similar place that was even smaller than this. I could've afforded a better one but putting away the difference seemed more important.

Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Lazio on March 07, 2022, 10:30:13 am
Gawd. That apartment is the size of my last bathroom.

A 33 square meter bathroom? Wow
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Kyndo on March 07, 2022, 11:15:32 am
33 square meters is pretty big, but not entirely unusual for the primary bathroom of a newer North American house. Here in Korea? Only if you're super wealthy.
Or if you're super weird and renovate your apartment to be 50% (ish) bathroom...   :undecided:
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Chinguetti on March 07, 2022, 11:27:48 am
This place is big enough to have a whole stove and oven.  :cry:

For real, though, this actually looks like a fairly decent apartment in Korea, it's just that all of the junk kills it. It's a little old, too, but imagine the space without all of the clutter. If you're single or married/no children, a little bit of elbow grease and planning could make it super cute and efficient. Just whoever lives there now doesn't know how to, lol.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: SPQR on March 07, 2022, 11:48:49 am
This place is big enough to have a whole stove and oven.  :cry:

For real, though, this actually looks like a fairly decent apartment in Korea, it's just that all of the junk kills it. It's a little old, too, but imagine the space without all of the clutter. If you're single or married/no children, a little bit of elbow grease and planning could make it super cute and efficient. Just whoever lives there now doesn't know how to, lol.

Take a closer look. That is not a stove or an oven. It is a
kimchi refrigerator. The gas range is in the corner behind
the kimchi refrigerator.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Chinguetti on March 07, 2022, 12:07:54 pm
Take a closer look. That is not a stove or an oven. It is a
kimchi refrigerator. The gas range is in the corner behind
the kimchi refrigerator.

Oops.

But that's space enough for an electric stove/oven, lol. I'd just cover the old range up with something to turn it into extra counter space.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Kyndo on March 07, 2022, 12:27:40 pm
But that's space enough for an electric stove/oven, lol. I'd just cover the old range up with something to turn it into extra counter space.
I dunno. I think I would use that space on the right (where there's currently a... ... rubbish pile?) to jam in the oven/stove (you can get really narrow ones, especially if you look online in Japanese sites).
I'd want the space where the kimchi fridge is for walking, and so that I could access the cupboards. Where the old range is, I'd yank it out, and put a small cupboard and have my dish drying area on top of it.
   The extra counter space would be nice, but getting something that would make it flush with the rest would be really hard, and things would inevitably fall between the cracks and make me sad to have lost it forever and ever.

Liechtenstein is right ( :shocked: ), though: the issue is all the junk. The place would be pretty livable if you tossed most of that crap out the window. I mean, why does that dude (it's gotta be a dude) have like 5 monitors lined up in the spare bedroom/walk-in closet/storage room? These are like audition photos for the Korean version of "Hoarders".  :lipsrsealed:
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Chinguetti on March 07, 2022, 12:33:22 pm
I would, too, but I wasn't sure if there was an outlet in that area where the cord could reach, and I wouldn't want to plug my stove/oven into a surge protector.

So I'd purchase an extra cupboard for that space, to use as both a pantry and a space for my microwave and other appliances. Everything off the floor, and everything in its place.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: hangook77 on March 07, 2022, 12:36:26 pm
That was bigger than the first one room I was given when I first got here years ago.  I would have been happy  to have this so long as no mold issues.  Some buildings here suck for that.  But I have lived in a couple of places that never had that issues.  My first place had thick walls and great soundproofing though.  Some other places really sucked.  Some decent too. 

I currently have a 2 bedroom apartment with a large bathroom and large front veranda.  Small for a family but large for me.  Almost 60 meters squared,  Older building with renovation inside.  I had to use my own fixes in the outer veranda walls and over my bedroom window to muffle building sounds however.  Works well over this past winter though compared to the last couple. 
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: nightninja on March 07, 2022, 01:24:38 pm
These are like audition photos for the Korean version of "Hoarders".  :lipsrsealed:

my husband would be featured on that show if it aired here.......and it drives me crazy and is quite overwhelming
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: SPQR on March 07, 2022, 01:25:11 pm
I've noticed interior design and furnishings are still very primitive
in Korea. Koreans still seem to be very utilitarian. Kitchens have
appliances and utensils, but they are jammed onto the counter with
no thought to make the room look attractive. Walls are rarely adorned
with pictures. Windows are never cleaned and many times covered
with ugly plastic film or bubble wrap.

Even in Korean dramas. The interior decoration is gaudy, plastic
and lacks personality.

IKEA is probably the best thing to ever happen to Korean interiors.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Kyndo on March 07, 2022, 01:57:26 pm
my husband would be featured on that show if it aired here.......and it drives me crazy and is quite overwhelming
Incrementally make stuff mysteriously vanish.
Got a pile of stuff sitting around for a week? The bottom 50% is fair game. Poof. Gone. If its absence is ever noticed, well, maybe it's in that pile over there. Or maybe the gremlins took it.  :smiley:

I had a friend who left us, along with all her crap, some really good advice: for each new thing you buy, give away 2 old things.
I've tried to follow this as much as is situationally possible (babies make things complicated), and while it sounds pretty simple, it's actually both really difficult and also really thought provoking. It forces one consider what one actually needs as opposed to just what would be nice to have.



Koreans still seem to be very utilitarian...
Windows are never cleaned and many times covered
with ugly plastic film or bubble wrap.
This particular bit drives me crazy.
When we bought our apartment, one of the biggest draws was the view: huge floor-to-ceiling south-facing windows that overlook the river, a bit of forest, farmland, a distant hamlet, and the mountains. Amazing lighting for a sunroom, fantastic sunrises/sunsets etc etc etc. The previous owners? When we first viewed the place, they were using the sunroom as a storage area, boxes and random crap packing the whole thing so that the windows were almost entirely hidden from view. Such a hideous, mind-boggling waste.  :huh:
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: SPQR on March 07, 2022, 02:25:09 pm
This particular bit drives me crazy.
When we bought our apartment, one of the biggest draws was the view: huge floor-to-ceiling south-facing windows that overlook the river, a bit of forest, farmland, a distant hamlet, and the mountains. Amazing lighting for a sunroom, fantastic sunrises/sunsets etc etc etc. The previous owners? When we first viewed the place, they were using the sunroom as a storage area, boxes and random crap packing the whole thing so that the windows were almost entirely hidden from view. Such a hideous, mind-boggling waste.

Yes, but very utilitarian. I think it boils down to this country being
invaded, occupied, war torn and then impoverished. People thought
of survival only. Remnants of that thinking obviously still exist.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 07, 2022, 02:31:04 pm
Okay, just noticed whom OP was. What exactly was their point in posting this? OP allegedly lives in a nice "million dollar apartment". Why would he be checking the Seoul apartment rentals? Was the only reason to go there to find some shoebox so he could what, laugh at the person living there? Post this so eventually it would lead to a brag post? Recent housing dip has him antsy so needed an ego boost?

No one called it a dream apartment. Neither posting here nor in the ad. So I don't get where OP is coming from (Well I do get where OP is coming from- a place of massive insecurity).

Also, there's an odd subset of married expat that likes to brag about their apartment...which was enabled thanks to their Korean spouse being able to take out a loan+financial assistance from said spouse's family. Not to mention NOT getting fleeced by some landlord, again thanks to said Korean spouse. Just odd.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Kyndo on March 07, 2022, 02:37:31 pm
Could be that they're looking to purchase a 2nd building/unit to let out?
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: SPQR on March 07, 2022, 02:37:43 pm

Okay, just noticed who OP was.


Haha, I wondered when DeFartino would try and derail another post.

Perhaps concentrate on basic grammar first.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: SPQR on March 07, 2022, 02:40:05 pm
Could be that they're looking to purchase a 2nd building/unit to let out?

Something like that. I, like many others, just like to peruse Craigslist.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Kyndo on March 07, 2022, 02:46:34 pm
Looking for a good deal on a 3/4 full tube of toothpaste?  :wink:
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 07, 2022, 03:23:38 pm
Haha, I wondered when DeFartino would try and derail another post.

Perhaps concentrate on basic grammar first.

You got me on the grammar. Thanks for pointing it out!
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 07, 2022, 03:24:33 pm
Could be that they're looking to purchase a 2nd building/unit to let out?
Odd thing to trash apartments in the class that they're trying to purchase to let out, on a site that would cater to the people they're trying to rent to.....

"Fast food is junk. Who would want to dine there?"
"What are you doing looking at fast food places, Mr. I'mTooGoodForFastFood?"
"Thinking about franchising a fast food joint."

Still doesn't address that we're talking basic housing for someone with lower-level income and trashing said housing is a bit of an odd flex.....
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: SPQR on March 07, 2022, 03:59:36 pm
Odd thing to trash apartments in the class that they're trying to purchase to let out, on a site that would cater to the people they're trying to rent to.....

"Fast food is junk. Who would want to dine there?"
"What are you doing looking at fast food places, Mr. I'mTooGoodForFastFood?"
"Thinking about franchising a fast food joint."

Still doesn't address that we're talking basic housing for someone with lower-level income and trashing said housing is a bit of an odd flex.....

Are you reaching at straws just to try and derail yet another post or are you
just dense? I think we are all agreed that the apartment is fine. It is the state
of the place that makes people wonder.

Please try and stay on the page. You are not eliciting laughter here, just groans.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Lazio on March 07, 2022, 06:19:05 pm
Also, there's an odd subset of married expat that likes to brag about their apartment...which was enabled thanks to their Korean spouse being able to take out a loan+financial assistance from said spouse's family. Not to mention NOT getting fleeced by some landlord, again thanks to said Korean spouse. Just odd.

I feel some resentment there... Were you unable to get a mortgage? Were you ripped off by a landlord? You should blame the xenophobic pratices for that and not those that somehow managed to pass these barriers.
And you make it sound like getting a mortgage equates to free money and only the privileged ones can enjoy the benefits of it.
On the other hand, I know several people who could secure mortgage loans even though they aren't Korean citizens, and in some cases not even married.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 07, 2022, 07:18:38 pm
It is the state of the place that makes people wonder.

Please try and stay on the page. You are not eliciting laughter here, just groans.
Odd thing when you derisively called it 'Dream Apartment', which no one, including the ad poster, said. You didn't post it as "Might wanna clean your place up first" or pointing out that they were an idiot for not cleaning beforehand. Then compared it to the apartment in Parasite, then went on a tangent about Korean interior design and furnishings.

I feel some resentment there... Were you unable to get a mortgage? Were you ripped off by a landlord? You should blame the xenophobic pratices for that and not those that somehow managed to pass these barriers.
And you make it sound like getting a mortgage equates to free money and only the privileged ones can enjoy the benefits of it.
On the other hand, I know several people who could secure mortgage loans even though they aren't Korean citizens, and in some cases not even married.

I'm just pointing out that someone taking a shot at someone on the lower-income level and living in poor housing while having some good fortune themselves might want to consider some humility.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: SPQR on March 08, 2022, 07:07:00 am
If you don't like the the above apartment, you could opt
for this one instead.  Only 14,000,000/month with 300,000,000
key money.

https://seoul.craigslist.org/apa/d/luxury-apartment-with-the-best-view-in/7437312875.html

(https://images.craigslist.org/01111_409O99D7mVqz_0g80aK_600x450.jpg)
(https://images.craigslist.org/00H0H_jYUgOuq95qiz_0g80aK_600x450.jpg)
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Kyndo on March 08, 2022, 07:23:45 am
Also, there's an odd subset of married expat that likes to brag about their apartment...which was enabled thanks to their Korean spouse being able to take out a loan+financial assistance from said spouse's family. Not to mention NOT getting fleeced by some landlord, again thanks to said Korean spouse. Just odd.

I like to talk about my apartment because it's awesome, and it's steps above anything I've managed to get for myself in the past (both in Korea and elsewhere).
Also, the fact that neither my SO nor I are Korean made the process a huge adventure, and parts of it (imho) are genuinely funny so it's a story I enjoy telling.

  Yes, there's a tiiiiiiiiiiny bit of a brag involved, I guess, but I think it's worth reminding people here that if one is planning on staying for longer than a year or two, it is absolutely worth moving out of one's comfort zone and looking for something other than school provided housing, or the typical ESL one-room suite. There are options available that made jeonses -- or even outright purchases -- attainable, and more rewarding financially than just renting some borderline slum one-room.


Consider it a PSA.  :azn:
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: 745sticky on March 08, 2022, 07:26:54 am
No one called it a dream apartment. Neither posting here nor in the ad. So I don't get where OP is coming from

i'd imagine it was a sarcastic quip, no need to take it so serious lol
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Lazio on March 08, 2022, 07:39:52 am
If you don't like the the above apartment, you could opt
for this one instead.  Only 14,000,000/month with 300,000,000
key money.

https://seoul.craigslist.org/apa/d/luxury-apartment-with-the-best-view-in/7437312875.html


That's nothing. I bet this place doesn't have a bathroom as big as VanIslander did.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: grimlock2 on March 08, 2022, 07:52:00 am
If you don't like the the above apartment, you could opt
for this one instead.  Only 14,000,000/month with 300,000,000
key money.

https://seoul.craigslist.org/apa/d/luxury-apartment-with-the-best-view-in/7437312875.html

(https://images.craigslist.org/01111_409O99D7mVqz_0g80aK_600x450.jpg)
(https://images.craigslist.org/00H0H_jYUgOuq95qiz_0g80aK_600x450.jpg)

Umm, If you're going to make the view the main feature of a flat, it might be better to take the photos on a day with a bit less than the average amount of pollution.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Augustiner on March 08, 2022, 07:58:31 am
Umm, If you're going to make the view the main feature of a flat, it might be better to take the photos on a day with a bit less than the average amount of pollution.

With that view, I'm not sure a clear day would help.  Unless you have a nice vista with Bukhansan or the the river there isn't much in the way of views in Seoul.  It can be an interesting city, but pretty, it ain't. 
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: SPQR on March 08, 2022, 08:05:48 am
Umm, If you're going to make the view the main feature of a flat, it might be better to take the photos on a day with a bit less than the average amount of pollution.

Actually, I was thinking the same thing. Both pics are meh. Apartments like these
are probably procured by companies for official use of guests, visiting corporate
execs etc.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: SPQR on March 08, 2022, 08:30:51 am
This just in. In case you are feeling a little tapped out paying 14M for
rent each month, this sofa/coffee table combo might be just your
thing. Both of these exquisite items finished in a landfill/local dump
motif.

(https://images.craigslist.org/00V0V_5LHeZEhS26sz_0kE0fu_600x450.jpg)


(https://images.craigslist.org/00r0r_8FBxkqpyoVWz_0kE0fu_600x450.jpg)

https://seoul.craigslist.org/fuo/d/couch-tea-table/7451057795.html
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Kyndo on March 08, 2022, 08:35:50 am
They even managed to nearly kill that pothos. They're well-nigh indestructible, so that's quite the accomplishment.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Chinguetti on March 08, 2022, 08:39:01 am
Was about to comment on that poor plant but Kyndo beat me to it.

I have no idea how people aren't embarrassed posting pics of their trash and clutter. Even if you live in filth, it doesn't take much to toss everything but the items you want to sell out of frame. Benefit of a doubt, this person might be moving and has a very chaotic process, but that doesn't change the cake of dust I'm seeing all over.

I'm trying really hard not to judge because I don't know who this is and what they might be going through, but, personally, I wouldn't take anything this person is selling or even trying to give away because I'd be too afraid of the kind of shit that might be hiding in the cracks and crevices. That's the reality of sales and exchange.

I wonder if anyone ever seriously responds to posts like this one.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Kyndo on March 08, 2022, 08:48:41 am
Was about to comment on that poor plant but Kyndo beat me to it.
With the amount of agreeing we've been doing lately, I'm beginning to suspect that you might owe me money.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: grimlock2 on March 08, 2022, 09:03:47 am
Here's a nice one from Wales. Do the paintings come as part of the package though?

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/120677744#/media?channel=RES_BUY&id=media4
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: SPQR on March 08, 2022, 09:18:52 am
Here's a nice one from Wales. Do the paintings come as part of the package though?

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/120677744#/media?channel=RES_BUY&id=media4

I was going to say the exterior is nice, then I saw all the pics. Seems
like you don't get a lot for £240,000. (KRW388,319,530) This looks way
overpriced for the UK. Especially for a shitty place like Wales. :) If you
tried to do any renovation work and made any noise, your neighbor
would probably come over and smash a Newcastle Brown bottle across
your face.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: grimlock2 on March 08, 2022, 09:32:34 am
Yeah, that price shocked me as well. It's in Wales for chrissake!
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: hangook77 on March 08, 2022, 11:45:51 am
I guess if you are posting homes from around the world.

https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/24103302/6-justin-dr-lower-coverdale

Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: SPQR on March 08, 2022, 12:42:23 pm
I guess if you are posting homes from around the world.

https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/24103302/6-justin-dr-lower-coverdale



?
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Kyndo on March 08, 2022, 12:45:26 pm
It's a very sensible dream home!
Looks like a nice house for a reasonable amount of money. You'd probably want to have a job where you can work remotely, though.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Liechtenstein on March 09, 2022, 10:39:41 am
I was going to say the exterior is nice, then I saw all the pics. Seems
like you don't get a lot for £240,000. (KRW388,319,530) This looks way
overpriced for the UK. Especially for a shitty place like Wales. :) If you
tried to do any renovation work and made any noise, your neighbor
would probably come over and smash a Newcastle Brown bottle across
your face.

That place has a lot of potential and could be done fairly cheaply if you're handy. Which I'm LOL (Foghorn Leghorn quote)
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: MayorHaggar on March 09, 2022, 02:07:28 pm
What an amazingly convenient apartment, you can brush your teeth, take a crap and do your laundry all at the same time!



Even in Korean dramas. The interior decoration is gaudy, plastic
and lacks personality.

South Korean interior design is basically tacky dictator chic from like 50 years ago.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: SPQR on March 10, 2022, 09:00:15 am
Wow, this property in Wales caught my eye. What a fantastic house. It lists
for £1,500,000 (KRW2,425,978,252). This is MUCH cheaper than a lot of filthy,
ugly "apartments" in Seoul. It boggles the mind what piles of crap sell for
in the Korean capital.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/111899981#/?channel=RES_BUY

(https://media.rightmove.co.uk/18k/17016/111899981/17016_21150833_IMG_03_0000.jpeg)


(https://media.rightmove.co.uk/18k/17016/111899981/17016_21150833_IMG_08_0000.jpeg)


(https://media.rightmove.co.uk/18k/17016/111899981/17016_21150833_IMG_14_0000.jpeg)
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Adel on March 10, 2022, 09:06:42 am
I suspect that maintenance and heating costs on that place would cripple one financially though.  I hear ride on mowers aren't so expensive . Perhaps you could just have sheep  or goats grazing on the lawn.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Augustiner on March 10, 2022, 09:09:25 am
That last one should be bought up to use as a small, exclusive inn or B&B. 
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Adel on March 10, 2022, 09:12:04 am
Even then, you'd probably go broke. Thoughts of "Faulty Towers" spring to mind.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQfH87D-nxP-1gPbjiEDOh4Wjtvqgw7L2I3Vw&usqp=CAU)
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: 745sticky on March 10, 2022, 09:13:58 am
I suspect that maintenance and heating costs on that place would cripple one financially though.

^this. its a big property, there has to be something going on those pictures dont show. always gonna be a catch if someone hasn't already snatched it up for that price.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Adel on March 10, 2022, 09:16:51 am
I suspect you'd be rather limited in potential developments too! If it's anything like Australia, places like that are heavily protected.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: chimp on March 10, 2022, 10:09:18 am
A lot of bezzle in the property market. The missus' chums bought an apartment and it has inflated in value to half a million dollars. We went to the housewarming and it's your fairly standard place. I pointed out to the missus that it might now be valued at half a million on paper but it simply doesn't merit that price tag in reality. The only way you can sell it for that amount is on the "greater fool" principle because nobody would look at it in bricks-and-mortar reality and say "This is definitely worth $500,000"
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: SPQR on March 10, 2022, 11:17:51 am
Even then, you'd probably go broke. Thoughts of "Faulty Towers" spring to mind.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQfH87D-nxP-1gPbjiEDOh4Wjtvqgw7L2I3Vw&usqp=CAU)

"This Basil, this Basil's wife, this smack on head."

Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Lazio on March 10, 2022, 01:04:35 pm
A lot of bezzle in the property market. The missus' chums bought an apartment and it has inflated in value to half a million dollars. We went to the housewarming and it's your fairly standard place. I pointed out to the missus that it might now be valued at half a million on paper but it simply doesn't merit that price tag in reality. The only way you can sell it for that amount is on the "greater fool" principle because nobody would look at it in bricks-and-mortar reality and say "This is definitely worth $500,000"

That's pretty cheap.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: chimp on March 10, 2022, 01:22:24 pm
That's pretty cheap.

There's more expensives one for sure, point being not that it is expensive but that it isn't intrinsically worth that. Hence my claim about there being bezzle.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: SPQR on March 10, 2022, 01:32:42 pm
A lot of bezzle in the property market. The missus' chums bought an apartment and it has inflated in value to half a million dollars. We went to the housewarming and it's your fairly standard place. I pointed out to the missus that it might now be valued at half a million on paper but it simply doesn't merit that price tag in reality. The only way you can sell it for that amount is on the "greater fool" principle because nobody would look at it in bricks-and-mortar reality and say "This is definitely worth $500,000"

I'm not sure I agree with this either. Things are worth what people
will pay for them. I have no problem with this. What I think is a little
off is what you get for the money. No yard. No storage space. No BBQ
in the summer. No space for hobbies.

As for that Wales estate. It looks nice, but yes, it would have hidden
costs. It would probably also be very lonely.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: SPQR on March 10, 2022, 01:37:34 pm
There's more expensives one for sure, point being not that it is expensive but that it isn't intrinsically worth that. Hence my claim about there being bezzle.

The only place where things have intrinsic value is communist Russia.

Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Kayos on March 10, 2022, 01:39:25 pm
I'm not sure I agree with this either. Things are worth what people
will pay for them. I have no problem with this. What I think is a little
off is what you get for the money. No yard. No storage space. No BBQ
in the summer. No space for hobbies.

As for that Wales estate. It looks nice, but yes, it would have hidden
costs. It would probably also be very lonely.

Wouldn't be lonely if you are an introvert. :D
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Lazio on March 10, 2022, 03:04:40 pm
There's more expensives one for sure, point being not that it is expensive but that it isn't intrinsically worth that. Hence my claim about there being bezzle.

That's what some people said about 50.000 dollar apartments back in the 90's.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: hangook77 on March 10, 2022, 03:09:25 pm
I was going to say the exterior is nice, then I saw all the pics. Seems
like you don't get a lot for £240,000. (KRW388,319,530) This looks way
overpriced for the UK. Especially for a shitty place like Wales. :) If you
tried to do any renovation work and made any noise, your neighbor
would probably come over and smash a Newcastle Brown bottle across
your face.

That's why I posted a home pic from my home province for a cheaper or similar price cdn dollars compared to pounds.  Seems to much pounds to pay for a dumpy looking place. 
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: chimp on March 12, 2022, 07:36:29 pm
That's what some people said about 50.000 dollar apartments back in the 90's.

Prices rise yes etc etc "everything is worth what the purchaser will pay for it" and other glib justifications x100, but I it seems like I should rephrase what I am saying.  Property prices are way out of wack with what can be supported in a way that any normal person could view as desirable (assuming this to be that mass home-ownership without potentially ruinous levels of debt building up in the economy as a whole is desirable).

Any number of individuals can be as smug as they like about how they were lucky enough to buy at the right time and now the value exploded, but there's no way anyone can look at the property market as it is now and think "hmm yes, this looks sustainable in the long term". I find it hard to believe that 40 years hence that people dragged through a shit and precarious economy their entire adult lives are going to think that $1m one bedroom apartments in shitehole wherever on a 60 year mortgage is worth it or even advisable.  Maybe somehow people who already have assets can keep spinning it out so that prices forever inflate by trading properties to each other but they will rip their society apart in the process. The situation is a pressing one and it's f-cking embarrassing the lack of seriousness with which it is being addressed.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: gogators! on March 13, 2022, 02:28:02 am
Prices rise yes etc etc "everything is worth what the purchaser will pay for it" and other glib justifications x100, but I it seems like I should rephrase what I am saying.  Property prices are way out of wack with what can be supported in a way that any normal person could view as desirable (assuming this to be that mass home-ownership without potentially ruinous levels of debt building up in the economy as a whole is desirable).

Any number of individuals can be as smug as they like about how they were lucky enough to buy at the right time and now the value exploded, but there's no way anyone can look at the property market as it is now and think "hmm yes, this looks sustainable in the long term". I find it hard to believe that 40 years hence that people dragged through a shit and precarious economy their entire adult lives are going to think that $1m one bedroom apartments in shitehole wherever on a 60 year mortgage is worth it or even advisable.  Maybe somehow people who already have assets can keep spinning it out so that prices forever inflate by trading properties to each other but they will rip their society apart in the process. The situation is a pressing one and it's f-cking embarrassing the lack of seriousness with which it is being addressed.
Things continue until they don't.

But what will it take to stop Koreans from thinking that the best way to invest their money is in new apartments? This is how they have been building wealth for quite some time. Does pricing people out make them more or less desirable?
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Lazio on March 13, 2022, 08:37:31 am
Prices rise yes etc etc "everything is worth what the purchaser will pay for it" and other glib justifications x100, but I it seems like I should rephrase what I am saying.  Property prices are way out of wack with what can be supported in a way that any normal person could view as desirable (assuming this to be that mass home-ownership without potentially ruinous levels of debt building up in the economy as a whole is desirable).

Any number of individuals can be as smug as they like about how they were lucky enough to buy at the right time and now the value exploded, but there's no way anyone can look at the property market as it is now and think "hmm yes, this looks sustainable in the long term". I find it hard to believe that 40 years hence that people dragged through a shit and precarious economy their entire adult lives are going to think that $1m one bedroom apartments in shitehole wherever on a 60 year mortgage is worth it or even advisable.  Maybe somehow people who already have assets can keep spinning it out so that prices forever inflate by trading properties to each other but they will rip their society apart in the process. The situation is a pressing one and it's f-cking embarrassing the lack of seriousness with which it is being addressed.

Overpriced? One could say that.
But still less so than the stock market or the crypto market. The latter representing absolutely zero real value while being traded for 10s of thousands of dollars a pop.
Yes, the real estate prices have been growing at a faster rate than incomes. Not just here but most everywhere. At the same time, rents are through the roof as well. But that doesn't stop people from renting. You don't hear aparments being empty by the thousands and landlords having no choice but to lower the rent. Not in urban areas anyways.
As long as there is enough demand to keep the purchase prices sustained, and there is enough demand for rentals at a certain price point, I don't see how prices would significantly come down. It's likely though that the rate the prices increased during the past decade, would slow down. That increase itself is not sustainable.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: SPQR on March 13, 2022, 09:00:22 am

Not just here but most everywhere.


This. Try and buy a house in San Francisco, Sydney or London and you'd
better have a BIG wad of cash.  Apartment prices have slowed down and
actually dropped. Apparently Seoul prices fell 0.03% in 2021.  Haha, but
compare that to the 30% year-on-year gains of the last five years. Owners
simply won't sell for a loss. Buyers have to suck it up.

https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/2021/12/24/business/economy/apartment-realestate-seoul/20211224170057851.html#:~:text=Overall%2C%20apartment%20prices%20in%20Seoul,in%20southern%20Seoul%2C%20remained%20unchanged.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: chimp on March 13, 2022, 02:23:59 pm
Things continue until they don't.

But what will it take to stop Koreans from thinking that the best way to invest their money is in new apartments? This is how they have been building wealth for quite some time. Does pricing people out make them more or less desirable?

Presumably it will continue until the bubble bursts or people with money buy up every last bit of property while the rest pay rent. A rentier economy makes housing more desirable because that's how you can make money.  The problem is that what is individually desirable, buy a property and sip a cocktail while you collect rents and the property balloons in value, is not desirable at a broader level. It sucks money out of the broader economy as people pay over the odds, compared to much more sluggish wage growth, in overblown rents or mortgages (if they can get one). In normal times more houses would be built to get things back on an even keel, either by the private sector or by the state. That it isn't happening suggests a tacit admission that the economy is indeed now a rentier economy dependent on inflated asset prices such that deflating it would risk sinking the entire economy, or it's an insane dereliction of duty/ amazing incompetence by our erstwhile leaders.

It's also telling that, while I appreciate the serious replies from a few of you considering I'm not a serious poster on this board, that nobody seems to be willing to come out and blatantly agree that things are f-ed as they stand right now. The replies all seem a bit mealy-mouthed in that regard.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: chimp on March 13, 2022, 02:44:04 pm
Overpriced? One could say that.
But still less so than the stock market or the crypto market. The latter representing absolutely zero real value while being traded for 10s of thousands of dollars a pop.
Yes, the real estate prices have been growing at a faster rate than incomes. Not just here but most everywhere. At the same time, rents are through the roof as well. But that doesn't stop people from renting. You don't hear aparments being empty by the thousands and landlords having no choice but to lower the rent. Not in urban areas anyways.
As long as there is enough demand to keep the purchase prices sustained, and there is enough demand for rentals at a certain price point, I don't see how prices would significantly come down. It's likely though that the rate the prices increased during the past decade, would slow down. That increase itself is not sustainable.

I agree that stock and crypto are also overpriced. You kind of stumble through the central point without acknowledging it that demand for housing is inelastic because people generally don't live outside. This is what makes it something of a special situation in being a non-negotiable thing in life, alongside things like health and education. Typically in developed societies such things are seen as being an exception to market logic on account of being too important to be left to such vagaries, yet housing is being left to get out of control and distort the economy with perverse outcomes. I will re-state my central claim that the housing market as it stands, while good for those who got property at a fortuitous time and saw it shoot up in value, is having a hugely distorting and perverse effect on society as a whole. I mean this in terms of mass home-ownership without huge amounts of debt building up in the economy being a desirable state of affairs .. i.e. a proprty-owning democracy. There's just no way that you can look at the property market as it stands and say that things are ok in that regard. It's a classic case of of things being beneficial on an individual level (assuming one has property) but being ruinous on a social level.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: SPQR on March 13, 2022, 04:21:35 pm

It's also telling that, while I appreciate the serious replies from a few of you considering I'm not a serious poster on this board, that nobody seems to be willing to come out and blatantly agree that things are f-ed as they stand right now. The replies all seem a bit mealy-mouthed in that regard.


Yeah, whatever buddy. Things aren't "f-ed" if you own a house! Haha
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Lazio on March 13, 2022, 04:40:44 pm
I agree that stock and crypto are also overpriced. You kind of stumble through the central point without acknowledging it that demand for housing is inelastic because people generally don't live outside. This is what makes it something of a special situation in being a non-negotiable thing in life, alongside things like health and education. Typically in developed societies such things are seen as being an exception to market logic on account of being too important to be left to such vagaries, yet housing is being left to get out of control and distort the economy with perverse outcomes. I will re-state my central claim that the housing market as it stands, while good for those who got property at a fortuitous time and saw it shoot up in value, is having a hugely distorting and perverse effect on society as a whole. I mean this in terms of mass home-ownership without huge amounts of debt building up in the economy being a desirable state of affairs .. i.e. a proprty-owning democracy. There's just no way that you can look at the property market as it stands and say that things are ok in that regard. It's a classic case of of things being beneficial on an individual level (assuming one has property) but being ruinous on a social level.

I get your point. However, us individuals can't really solve this. If someone has the means to buy a property or a second or third, they will not care much about the moral side of it and how it affects society. If they don't buy it, someone else will and the result will be the same for the rest, only that individual will take a step backwards financially.

Most developed countries have some social programs to help those with limited financial means to affordable rentals or owning a property.

It isn't perfect, but what is?

Equal chances at birth? Getting an education? Access to quality healthcare? Owning property? The reality is far from these utopian ideas.
Inequality is almost as old as humanity. And it will stay with us.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: gogators! on March 13, 2022, 09:05:58 pm
Presumably it will continue until the bubble bursts or people with money buy up every last bit of property while the rest pay rent. A rentier economy makes housing more desirable because that's how you can make money.  The problem is that what is individually desirable, buy a property and sip a cocktail while you collect rents and the property balloons in value, is not desirable at a broader level. It sucks money out of the broader economy as people pay over the odds, compared to much more sluggish wage growth, in overblown rents or mortgages (if they can get one). In normal times more houses would be built to get things back on an even keel, either by the private sector or by the state. That it isn't happening suggests a tacit admission that the economy is indeed now a rentier economy dependent on inflated asset prices such that deflating it would risk sinking the entire economy, or it's an insane dereliction of duty/ amazing incompetence by our erstwhile leaders.

It's also telling that, while I appreciate the serious replies from a few of you considering I'm not a serious poster on this board, that nobody seems to be willing to come out and blatantly agree that things are f-ed as they stand right now. The replies all seem a bit mealy-mouthed in that regard.
73% of married couples in Korea own their apartments. Gyeonggi province had the largest number of housing construction permits in South Korea in 2020, with more than 165 thousand housing units. That year, there were approximately 457.5 thousand housing construction permits in total in South Korea.

"However, the political discourse around the housing market skirts around the phenomenon’s underlying cause: economic insecurity. Koreans pour a greater share of their household assets into real estate (75 percent) than their international peers because they see them as a safe investment vehicle for retirement. This behavior is driven by the fact that around 40 percent of citizens over the age of 65 live in relative poverty, earning less than half of the median household income.

Meanwhile, families compete to live in Seoul because parents believe that their children’s placement in better-known school districts will serve as a hedge against the ongoing erosion of secure jobs. The proportion of unemployed or underemployed Koreans between the ages of 15 and 29 stood at 27.2 percent in January 2021, a record high.

Taming the housing market through new financial regulations or concessions, therefore, will not reach the root of this anxiety-driven market behavior. A more productive policy response lies in dismantling the structures that perpetuate occupational insecurity."
https://thediplomat.com/2021/08/the-real-cause-of-seouls-real-estate-bubble-economic-anxiety/

Good ideas, but entrenched ideas are hard to shake.

As someone posted above, housing is expensive everywhere. Timing can also be a big factor. I bought my house pre-pandemic and so it was almost $200,000 less than the house sold across the street five months ago. But a guy down the street bought his house for more than $100k less than mine in 2008.

Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Adel on March 13, 2022, 09:09:12 pm
Old rule!
avoid all eggs in one basket!
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: 745sticky on March 14, 2022, 11:32:51 am
It's also telling that, while I appreciate the serious replies from a few of you considering I'm not a serious poster on this board, that nobody seems to be willing to come out and blatantly agree that things are f-ed as they stand right now. The replies all seem a bit mealy-mouthed in that regard.

because its a useless virtue signal. nobody actually likes paying rent (even when its fair, lol). if you want a strong endorsement of the obvious, feel free to post that on twitter. or if you want somebody to argue it try the r/landlords subreddit.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Renma on March 14, 2022, 01:52:07 pm
I prefer r/loveforlandlords personally
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: 745sticky on March 14, 2022, 02:29:27 pm
I prefer r/loveforlandlords personally

yeah thats the one that i meant lmao forgot the exact name
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: SPQR on April 26, 2022, 01:51:54 pm
Whoa, this guy just seriously sweetened this deal.

(https://images.craigslist.org/01111_fyT7Wj2RBaJz_0fu0kE_600x450.jpg)

https://seoul.craigslist.org/ele/d/power-consent/7459292507.html
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Liechtenstein on April 28, 2022, 10:44:56 am
Whoa, this guy just seriously sweetened this deal.

(https://images.craigslist.org/01111_fyT7Wj2RBaJz_0fu0kE_600x450.jpg)

https://seoul.craigslist.org/ele/d/power-consent/7459292507.html

Holy crap Batman! That looks all kinds of dangerous.

I remember when I built my house here I did it to Canadian building code standards. I walked around with my toolbelt on, a measuring tape and a carpenter's pencil marking where I wanted all the plugs and switches to go.

An electrical outlet every 8 feet and on every wall over 4 feet. The guy thought I was crazy. Me and the Mrs. moved in on our wedding day over 14 years ago and we still have plugs we've never used and not an extension cord in sight.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: kevingrabb on April 28, 2022, 10:53:56 am
Any dream apateu worth it's wait in sogeum has a fridge full of beer and this

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/160924_AOA_%EC%9D%B8%EC%B2%9C%ED%95%9C%EB%A5%98%EA%B4%80%EA%B4%91%EC%BD%98%EC%84%9C%ED%8A%B8.jpg)
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: SPQR on April 28, 2022, 12:43:04 pm
Holy crap Batman! That looks all kinds of dangerous.

I remember when I built my house here I did it to Canadian building code standards. I walked around with my toolbelt on, a measuring tape and a carpenter's pencil marking where I wanted all the plugs and switches to go.

An electrical outlet every 8 feet and on every wall over 4 feet. The guy thought I was crazy. Me and the Mrs. moved in on our wedding day over 14 years ago and we still have plugs we've never used and not an extension cord in sight.

Our apartment isn't so bad. We have on average two outlets per room. One
in the living room is, for some reason, 150cm off the floor. But we still need
"consents". One classroom has: an aircon, computer, printer, router, fan,
wi-Fi, TV, internet cable receiver, CD player and a lamp. But that is what
these power bars are for. If the circuit overloads the thing shuts down.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Liechtenstein on April 28, 2022, 12:52:47 pm
True but wouldn't it be better to not need them at all? A typical room in a typical apartment should have at least 1 outlet per wall.

That picture is plain nuts haha
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Lazio on April 28, 2022, 07:09:42 pm
True but wouldn't it be better to not need them at all? A typical room in a typical apartment should have at least 1 outlet per wall.

That picture is plain nuts haha

Notice how they are not plugged into the wall and there is nothing plugged into them. What exactly is nuts and dangerous? The guy just hung them up on a bookcase to store them there.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Liechtenstein on April 29, 2022, 08:56:41 am
Notice how they are not plugged into the wall and there is nothing plugged into them. What exactly is nuts and dangerous? The guy just hung them up on a bookcase to store them there.

Well, other than looking like a festering landfill that only a pig would live in, plus the inherent potential hazard of having a bunch of wires hanging around loosely, nothing I suppose.

The very first thing every single Korean said upon entering the various apartments I lived in during my 6 years there was, "Wow! It is so clean."

I ain't got time for people who live like pigs.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: SPQR on April 29, 2022, 09:03:50 am
Well, other than looking like a festering landfill that only a pig would live in, plus the inherent potential hazard of having a bunch of wires hanging around loosely, nothing I suppose.

The very first thing every single Korean said upon entering the various apartments I lived in during my 6 years there was, "Wow! It is so clean."

I ain't got time for people who live like pigs.

I agree. I used to teach a lot of privates and I visited many apartments. Most(80%)
were pretty clean. Others were not so. But nothing like this guy's hole.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Liechtenstein on April 29, 2022, 09:16:39 am
I agree. I used to teach a lot of privates and I visited many apartments. Most(80%)
were pretty clean. Others were not so. But nothing like this guy's hole.


Yeah, me too. It's similar here. I've been in many houses that were big and beautiful but wicked messy. Dirty dishes in the sink, piles of clothes and junk around...I don't get it. Being clean and neat and tidy is basically free and takes no time. Letting shit pile up for days or weeks and then having to go on a cleaning binge that takes up an entire weekend is nuts.

But, I come by my "slight" obsession honestly. Dad was an architect and in the military. Order and precision were obligatory.
Title: Re: Dream Apartment
Post by: Lazio on April 29, 2022, 10:20:59 am
the inherent potential hazard of having a bunch of wires hanging around loosely

No, there is no potential hazard in storing unused extension cords that way.