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Career Venue => Contract, and Job Related Issues => Topic started by: Sagi Keun on February 01, 2022, 10:51:16 pm

Title: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: Sagi Keun on February 01, 2022, 10:51:16 pm

I heard of someone working F/t (8 hrs a day, 5 days a week) for 1.5M + accom.

Is that even allowed under the conditions of the E2?

 
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: thunderlips on February 02, 2022, 08:26:52 am
That’s under minimum wage isn’t it?

What a dope to take that job, I guess their love of bts nourishes them.



***Yup 1.9 is the minimum monthly wage.
https://hrmasia.com/south-korea-officially-sets-next-years-minimum-wage-rate-at-9160-won/
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: Sagi Keun on February 02, 2022, 12:33:26 pm
That’s under minimum wage isn’t it?

Does the E2 specify that the employee must be paid minimum wage?
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: thunderlips on February 02, 2022, 06:15:10 pm
Does the E2 specify that the employee must be paid minimum wage?

That article says it is across all industries. But they may factor in flight money and/or housing as income?? Not sure entirely though.
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: waygo0k on February 02, 2022, 06:48:58 pm
The employer would definitely be doing some shady accounting on the employee’s government contributions.

E-2 pay will get lower folks, because people will allow it to.
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: VanIslander on February 02, 2022, 11:27:42 pm
1.6 m has been the basement I've met personally.

2.0 was standard in 2002.

to work for under 2.4 mill (with tons of deductions) is worthy of pause: why?
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: HiddenInKorea on February 06, 2022, 04:19:31 pm
I heard of someone working F/t (8 hrs a day, 5 days a week) for 1.5M + accom.
Is that even allowed under the conditions of the E2?




I believe this is illegal since it's under minimum wage. The minimum wage should be 1.9 mill won as of 2022. 
There is a loophole that the academy found which allows them to do this. Most likely the academy probably just records the teacher's wages officially as 1.9 or 2.0 by including the 400,000  or 500,000 accomodation cost/ housing allowance in the salary, and then they withhold that amount, so the teacher ends up with only 1.5 mill in their bank account each month. Whatever sh**ty hagwon is doing this needs to be reported. Someone needs to tell that teacher to get out of there quickly.

Even the government scholarship TaLK program which was 1.5 mill plus free accommodation on top of that is no longer running. Paying a University educated overseas E-2 visa holder the same as what a local Korean minimum wage worker makes is just disrespectful. And the teacher who agreed to receive that is either incredibly young and naive (which is understandable if they were desperate for any source of income and didn't bother researching the going rate), or incredibly pathetic with low self-esteem and no self-respect.

Since English teachers unionizing in Korea is impossible due to the temporary nature of the work. There needs to be some sort of an online union, where senior teachers or teachers who worked in Korea 20, 15, 10 years ago can share their experiences with newbies. Maybe even a youtube channel / live stream that interviews all sorts of English teachers where they discuss what their salaries were like, working conditions, cost of living, and ect.... then maybe slowly with more and more youtube videos exposing the truth... the propaganda of "Get RIch in Korea" can be broken!

Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: StillInKorea on February 06, 2022, 05:00:06 pm
The minimum wage is hourly, not monthly
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: Lazio on February 06, 2022, 07:52:21 pm

Maybe even a youtube channel / live stream that interviews all sorts of English teachers where they discuss what their salaries were like, working conditions, cost of living, and ect.... then maybe slowly with more and more youtube videos exposing the truth... the propaganda of "Get RIch in Korea" can be broken!


Brilliant idea, hangook!
Seriously, how come no one ever thought about uploading videos to YouTube, sharing their experiences living and working in Korea? If I made one, I could be the very first person doing so. This is an exciting new opportunity!
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: waygo0k on February 13, 2022, 09:32:51 pm
TaLK was 1.5mil for 15 working hours per week.

Absolutely no official deskwarming whatsoever (unless you had no backbone and your school was run by a sociopath)
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: HiddenInKorea on February 14, 2022, 10:31:07 pm
TaLK was 1.5mil for 15 working hours per week.
Absolutely no official deskwarming whatsoever (unless you had no backbone and your school was run by a sociopath)

The TaLK scholars really did have the best scholarship!!! I totally forgot that they had absolutely 0 desk warming hours! I guess it makes sense though, since they were suppose to be engaging in cultural activities in their free time and it was a teach and learn program.

They stopped getting the 1.5 salary as in the past few years the government started to deduct taxes and health insurance from  their salaries and they ended up with only 1.3 or 1.2 and it was way too low.
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: Kyndo on February 15, 2022, 07:35:30 am
1.5 million (plus .4 housing) for 2 hours of work per day is way too low?
That comes out to 30,000 won per hour!
Not at all bad for something intended to be more of a cultural exchange program than a job.

An Epik teacher making 2.7 (plus .4 housing) earns only around 15,500 won per hour.  :sad:
Of course, EPIK has a bunch of additional perks which add up nicely, but...
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: L I on February 15, 2022, 09:06:19 am
How many EPIK teachers start at 2.7 though?

If they have TALK like qualifications, would it be something closer to 2.1 for their first year?
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: waygo0k on February 15, 2022, 09:22:16 am
It sucks they started charging TaLK scholars tax...that's wild. Collecting tax on scholarships!

Korea has literally found a way to start taking the piss out of its ESL teachers.
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: Kyndo on February 15, 2022, 09:25:58 am
How many EPIK teachers start at 2.7 though?
If they have TALK like qualifications, would it be something closer to 2.1 for their first year?
Yeah, I was talking about capped pay, which makes the comparison even more in TALK's favour! I don't think it's even possible to start in EPIK at 2.7.
I think it's the 1+ pay level in a few of the provinces (definitely is for gyeongbuk) which you can only get after working in EPIK for a year or 2.
2.1 is pay level 3, which is as low as it's possible to go (except in the MOEs, which I think start at 2.0?). I feel that it would be one's own fault for starting at 3, though: do an online TESL course before signing your contract and you automatically start at pay level 2 which bumps you up .1 million per month.  :smiley:

It sucks they started charging TaLK scholars tax...that's wild. Collecting tax on scholarships!
Korea has literally found a way to start taking the piss out of its ESL teachers.
They torpedoed the whole programme, so I guess it's all moot now.  :sad:
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: HiddenInKorea on February 15, 2022, 09:43:30 am
1.5 million (plus .4 housing) for 2 hours of work per day is way too low?
That comes out to 30,000 won per hour!
Not at all bad for something intended to be more of a cultural exchange program than a job.

An Epik teacher making 2.7 (plus .4 housing) earns only around 15,500 won per hour.  :sad:
Of course, EPIK has a bunch of additional perks which add up nicely, but...

Did the TaLK scholars ever have a choice as to whether or not they could receive the 400,000 housing allowance?
I believe that they were being housed at homestays with Korean families at first (maybe back in 2008, when I first heard of this program at a university fair back home).

Then from 2010 or 2012 they started to allow the scholars a choice between homestay or a one room apartment that the program chooses for them. Also, since they are mostly housed in rural areas, their housing probably didn’t cost as much as 400,000.

They did do only 3 hours of work per day though with no desk warming with health care / taxes not taken out at first since the pay was just considered a flat out stipend/ scholarship  and not a salary.

If they could indeed request that 400,000 housing allowance, then that does make the come out on top salary wise with 30,000!!!

Maybe that’s why the program got scrapped? They did the calculations and realized it didn’t make sense to pay someone with lower qualifications more than a full time EpIK teacher per hour, but there was no way to scale down benefits and salary as that would make it impossible to survive on in Korea.

I know student scholarships for international grad students are like 800,000 a month flat. But they are starving at the end of the month and need to work a part time job or two to make ends meet.

Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: Kyndo on February 15, 2022, 01:06:41 pm
Oh, no, my bad: insofar as I know, TALKers never got the option to get the .4 in cold hard cash. I just included it because it's kinda the go-to amount when talking about provided housing -- my numbers are all back-of-napkin-scribbles so I figured it would be okay to include it like that.

I liked the idea of a TALK program because it seemed very much a cultural exchange program rather than just a recruiting agency like what EPIK/GEPIK/JLP are.
I guess what with the ever increasing success of hallyu and the rising popularity of all things Korean, the gov figured the program was a bit redundant?
Still, sad to see it go.  :sad:
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: waygo0k on February 15, 2022, 01:56:17 pm
Scholars could definitely get the 400k if they requested it. I know one person who did as she was living with her Korean family (was lucky enough to be placed in the same city as her extended family)…so she just pocketed the 400k as extra cash.

If the scholars didn’t get the 400k, the school (or staff member who owned the apartment/one-room being rented to the scholar through the school) would simply have pocketed the difference between the actual rent (~200k in the countryside) and the 400k.

TaLK was a great program for not just the scholars lol. A lot of people made side income off it.
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: Kyndo on February 15, 2022, 02:00:18 pm
They should've made the homestay part of the program mandatory. It wouldve emphasized the cultural exchange aspect of the program and weeded out a fair percentage of the people who were there more or less just for employment.
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: waygo0k on February 15, 2022, 03:07:07 pm
Nah, way too many opportunities for liberties to be taken.

Free English tutor for the kids/parents/extended family etc for example, not to mention the 400k stipend would go to the family.

When I first did TaLK we were given the option of home stay or our own places…if home stay was mandatory, I most probably wouldn’t have joined the program.
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: hangook77 on March 02, 2022, 07:57:05 am
Brilliant idea, hangook!
Seriously, how come no one ever thought about uploading videos to YouTube, sharing their experiences living and working in Korea? If I made one, I could be the very first person doing so. This is an exciting new opportunity!

Nice try, but I been on vacation for February.  (Hidden isn't me.)  Except for dropping a couple of posts about the truckers, I ain't been near this site until today. 
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: LindaTheGr8 on March 02, 2022, 08:00:20 am
TaLK was 1.5mil for 15 working hours per week.

Absolutely no official deskwarming whatsoever (unless you had no backbone and your school was run by a sociopath)

Lol I did 1 year with TaLK and my head teacher tried to get me to stay the full work day (I had days where I finished work at 11:30/12:00 and would dip IMMEDIATELY). He asked me to wait until lunchtime, at least, was over before going home. I noped the f- outta that conversation so fast. What annoyed me too was the fact that I'm a vegetarian, so I wasn't even having the school lunches
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: Kyndo on March 02, 2022, 08:11:44 am
Nah, way too many opportunities for liberties to be taken.
Free English tutor for the kids/parents/extended family etc for example, not to mention the 400k stipend would go to the family.
When I first did TaLK we were given the option of home stay or our own places…if home stay was mandatory, I most probably wouldn’t have joined the program.
You're probably right.
Growing up, my family hosted an exchange student nearly every year, which was always super awesome for me. I guess that, because of that, I might be seeing exchange programmes through rose tinted glasses.
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: Chinguetti on March 02, 2022, 01:04:28 pm
Yeah, I've actually heard a few horror stories about that. One story in particular stood out to me because it was the NET's coteacher or VP or something who basically coerced the NET into a homestay with his family so that he could pocket the stipend. Ended up being hell for the NET because the coT or VP basically tried to micromanage her life and force her to tutor other people's kids outside of school. She managed to get out of it, but as you can imagine it was a huge mess and it really soured her to Korea for a while.
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: hangook77 on March 02, 2022, 01:55:31 pm
Did the TaLK scholars ever have a choice as to whether or not they could receive the 400,000 housing allowance?
I believe that they were being housed at homestays with Korean families at first (maybe back in 2008, when I first heard of this program at a university fair back home).

Then from 2010 or 2012 they started to allow the scholars a choice between homestay or a one room apartment that the program chooses for them. Also, since they are mostly housed in rural areas, their housing probably didn’t cost as much as 400,000.

They did do only 3 hours of work per day though with no desk warming with health care / taxes not taken out at first since the pay was just considered a flat out stipend/ scholarship  and not a salary.

If they could indeed request that 400,000 housing allowance, then that does make the come out on top salary wise with 30,000!!!

Maybe that’s why the program got scrapped? They did the calculations and realized it didn’t make sense to pay someone with lower qualifications more than a full time EpIK teacher per hour, but there was no way to scale down benefits and salary as that would make it impossible to survive on in Korea.

I know student scholarships for international grad students are like 800,000 a month flat. But they are starving at the end of the month and need to work a part time job or two to make ends meet.



Prior to the Great Recession beginning in 2009, most EPIK folks got to work mornings and bailed after lunch.  You'd get the odd strict school and the odd day where your classes were scheduled through the day or you'd get that one day where a school was far far away.  But much of the week, you could get home real early like that and low to mid 2's salary was good pay back then.  This was more prevalent in rural EPIK but some places in Gyeonggi did do some of this and even Gwangju Metro City in Jeollanam Do use to give their teachers the whole winter vacation off.  Some public schools in China, Vietnam will give you super long vacations and some have no desk warming the way Korea use to be.  (Though pay is often reduced for summers there though.)  But after the recession began most cities and closer to Seoul got hard core while some rural areas did hold out until recently and still allow some slackness.  But it was like TALK in some ways as you often didn't do your 22 hours either.  More like 16 or 17 a week. 
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: waygo0k on March 03, 2022, 07:06:31 am
Lol I did 1 year with TaLK and my head teacher tried to get me to stay the full work day (I had days where I finished work at 11:30/12:00 and would dip IMMEDIATELY). He asked me to wait until lunchtime, at least, was over before going home. I noped the f- outta that conversation so fast. What annoyed me too was the fact that I'm a vegetarian, so I wasn't even having the school lunches

That’s how it should be done. Nopety nope with hearts and cherries on top. That, or my favourite response - “will I be paid overtime for that?”

On contractual issues like this, your school can’t force you to stay beyond what the contract says…if they try, the local education office and regional TaLK coordinator could be reliably called upon to intervene on your behalf.
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: HiddenInKorea on March 10, 2022, 12:01:19 pm
Prior to the Great Recession beginning in 2009, most EPIK folks got to work mornings and bailed after lunch.  You'd get the odd strict school and the odd day where your classes were scheduled through the day or you'd get that one day where a school was far far away.  But much of the week, you could get home real early like that and low to mid 2's salary was good pay back then.  This was more prevalent in rural EPIK but some places in Gyeonggi did do some of this and even Gwangju Metro City in Jeollanam Do use to give their teachers the whole winter vacation off.  Some public schools in China, Vietnam will give you super long vacations and some have no desk warming the way Korea use to be.  (Though pay is often reduced for summers there though.)  But after the recession began most cities and closer to Seoul got hard core while some rural areas did hold out until recently and still allow some slackness.  But it was like TALK in some ways as you often didn't do your 22 hours either.  More like 16 or 17 a week. 


I think that those who had an opportunity to come here in  2010 or earlier were just really lucky with getting to work under a still-developing country style management in Korea, where foreigners were let off the hook easily and seen as elite guests instead of contract workers. It was just a really beneficial time to be here.

Also, there were so few EPIK teachers here that I'm sure the offices of education were trying to do what they could to make their foreign teachers happy in order to encourage them to renew their contracts.
(I'm pretty sure this was also the time when EPIK even recruited non-native English speaking teachers from Quebec, where the majority of the population speaks French as their native language, and allowed them to renew despite their English being on par with or worse than the Korean English teachers' English ability.)  This is shows the desperation and need for foreign teachers at that time, as I have taught these "French Speaking Canadians," English in my ESL class back when I taught adult ESL in Canada.)
Regarldess or who it was and how well they performed, things  were in the foreign teachers' favour back than. Hence the free lunches, less classes, and permission to leave after lunch.
If some other East Asian country were to become more popular at distributing it's culture through dramas and music like Japan and Korea and ends up luring away all of the potential English teachers,  then maybe things would get better again in terms of benefits here.
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: VanIslander on March 10, 2022, 11:40:29 pm
In March 2006 the flood gates opened under Rho Mu-hyun's plan to put native English teachers into every urban and rural school.

I was happily expecting to sign on for a 4th year on beautiful Geoje Island (east coast, in Okpo), but I saw a 2.5 (or was it 2.6 - don't care/didn't care so much at the salary minutae, for a Monday to Thursday 4pm to 7:50pm M to Thursday job in Hadong. I checked it out by visiting, loved the small town chill vibe, the hilltop park, the Seomjin River park (tennis and basketball and swimming). WHY THE HECK WAS THIS SWEET POSITION with every Friday off? Because it was one of only two competing hagwons with a foreign teacher in a farming town having a hard time atteacting foreigners away from traffic jams and urban sprawl. AND - the kicker - the public schools (every elementary, middle and high school in Hadong) suddenly wanted foreign teachers, so recruiters (as my recruiter told me bluntly) needed to convince rural hagwons who wanted native English teachers to sweeten the pot. Shortly after I was hired, I was suddenly asked to add Fridays (not in my contract) and one phone call to my recruiter and that was nixed. That hagwon re-signed me in '07 and '08, and I only left after that because of a death in the family. The 2006-2009 period of English Language Teaching in this country had plenty of sweet offers (i regularly looked at but never bit at others as my gig was great - not just for Fridays off but for being THE highest level hagwon in a small town because it always had a waygook: I taught some classes twice or thrice a week, they won speech contests, got 720 TOEIC score in elementary school, went to North Carolina on scholarship.

But there has been 1.7 mill with housing in 2021. My friend took 1.6 mill for 30 hours m-f in 2018 (dunno what he was thinking - hadn't the heart to ask).

The least I've heard is 1.4 mill for 5 days a week with no housing, morning and afternoons.... i stunned... was speechless.
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: WhenInRome... on March 11, 2022, 05:40:13 am
Korando story or GTFO!
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: HiddenInKorea on March 11, 2022, 07:59:20 am
In March 2006 the flood gates opened under Rho Mu-hyun's plan to put native English teachers into every urban and rural school.

The least I've heard is 1.4 mill for 5 days a week with no housing, morning and afternoons.... i stunned... was speechless.

1.4 for 5 days.... This must have been an ad for an international English-speaking student or non-native English speaker from the Philippines / India??
For a Native English speaker, this is just disrespectful to try and pay them 1997 wages almost 30 years later :<
If Native English Teachers were being offered 2.6 back then, they should be offered between 3.6 ~ 4.0 now.
The recruiters spreading their propaganda of getting rich in Korea doesn't help the situation either. 

Like I mentioned before, the problem with ESL in Korea is that it is so short term and incoming teachers are not aware of their salaries and conditions and what things were like until they come here and start to network and learn more about this country from previous NETs.
Already there are teachers in the 2019~ 2022 Kakao groups that are realizing more and more that the pay isn't that great.
However, for some fresh college graduates who were recently living in a college dorm or sharing a house with multiple roommates, a one room with a private kitchen and bathroom with the potential to save a few hundred dollars a month, while partying, traveling, and adventuring around a new country still seems like quite the good deal. They're unaware that they should be earning at least 1.0 mill more for their work. Once they figure out that this isn't so great, they've already put in a year or two years' worth of work into the Hakwon... then they leave and a new one gets tricked into coming in.

I understand EPIK might not be in a position to raise salaries excessively, since it's the government, and while it's nice for students to have a class with a foreign teacher, the education impact is not as strong as the cross-cultural communication and globalization aspect of the program. With EPIK teachers we're mostly there to get the kids interacting with a foreigner, learning some cross-cultural stuff, and basically just giving them an enjoyable experience through communicative English activities. However, the Hagwons, this is where the students really receive a valuable education! Like VanIslander said, students win competition and scholarships to US schools... all thanks to the skills they obtain from their Hakwon classes. Parents send the kids to these Hakwons so they can have better opportunities and live more elite lives than their peers. The Hakwon teachers must be compensated more for their contribution to these students' future. The E-2 native teachers are really getting the worst... F-4 Kyopos teaching at Hakwons make double of E-2's ... up to 4.0 mill a month.

It is no longer the teachers, but the Hakwons that have found a sweet deal for themselves!
A never-ending supply of labor for their Hakwons, where they can charge the parents 2021 tuition prices, and pay the Native English Teachers 2000 salaries, all thanks to the K-pop and K-drama wave!!


Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: waygo0k on March 11, 2022, 09:43:35 am
Since the new president wants to do away with minimum wage and maximum working hours…my bet is on whatever KRW amounts to 700-1000USD per month for a 25-30hr teaching week in some hagwon somewhere. No housing or flights.

This will be for an official, legal E-2 position…and someone will be sponsored on that visa.

Timeline…sometime within the next 18-30 months.
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: Lazio on March 11, 2022, 10:00:14 am
The recruiters spreading their propaganda of getting rich in Korea doesn't help the situation either. 

Like I mentioned before, the problem with ESL in Korea is that it is so short term and incoming teachers are not aware of their salaries and conditions and what things were like until they come here and start to network and learn more about this country from previous NETs.
Already there are teachers in the 2019~ 2022 Kakao groups that are realizing more and more that the pay isn't that great.
... then they leave and a new one gets tricked into coming in.

FFS, it is 2022 if you haven't noticed yet.
It could've been true 20-30 years ago, pre-internet.
But in the last 10-15 years, one would need to be a special kind of moron if they are unaware of the ins and outs of the efl industry in Korea or anywhere else where they plan to live and teach. But they're supposed to be college grads. And they would most likely know about this wonderul thing called internet.
Your argument is mind blowingly stupid.
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: HiddenInKorea on March 12, 2022, 09:40:19 am
FFS, it is 2022 if you haven't noticed yet.
It could've been true 20-30 years ago, pre-internet.
But in the last 10-15 years, one would need to be a special kind of moron if they are unaware of the ins and outs of the efl industry in Korea or anywhere else where they plan to live and teach. But they're supposed to be college grads. And they would most likely know about this wonderul thing called internet.
Your argument is mind blowingly stupid.


Before coming over here I worked at an ESL and academic support center, where these college students could come in to get help with their assignments ect. Even with the internet around a lot of these students who were suppose to have some level of academic and critical thinking skills were mind blowing stupid …

That’s the thing, a lot of these people just set out on an adventure without properly researching beyond the k-pop concerts they’re going to attended and the exciting places they’re going to visit.

Really unfortunate of them to not take advantage of the internet!

Luckily, many are figuring out that this is not the place to strike it rich once they get here and either use their time to upgrade credentials and move up or save money for a year or two and get out. Of course this does nothing to change the salaries as the ever rotating door for newbies to take over the entry level teaching positions is always open.
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: Lazio on March 13, 2022, 04:47:35 pm

Before coming over here I worked at an ESL and academic support center, where these college students could come in to get help with their assignments ect. Even with the internet around a lot of these students who were suppose to have some level of academic and critical thinking skills were mind blowing stupid …

That’s the thing, a lot of these people just set out on an adventure without properly researching beyond the k-pop concerts they’re going to attended and the exciting places they’re going to visit.

Really unfortunate of them to not take advantage of the internet!

Luckily, many are figuring out that this is not the place to strike it rich once they get here and either use their time to upgrade credentials and move up or save money for a year or two and get out. Of course this does nothing to change the salaries as the ever rotating door for newbies to take over the entry level teaching positions is always open.

So where does that put you?

Well, I actually only started to read through the forums regarding  ESL work-related issues in Korea after I arrived here 2 and a half years ago. My mistake in not doing more thorough research beforehand...
Things do seem really out of balance... Korea is not cheap as people use to say it was, ... subways are not W900, as my friends who had taught here in 2010 have mentioned, and Kimbap is no longer $ 1,000.

Anyways, your post(s) have hangook77 written all over them.

but were suppose to be on another and...
a topic that's suppose to be about Vietnam...
the foreign teacher is not suppose to be doing those.
in the meantime or I strike it rich
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: Renma on March 14, 2022, 12:07:38 pm
They have slightly different focal points in their repeating rhetoric, and Hidden shows a disdain to workers from non-Anglo countries in many posts that I haven't noticed hangook express. hangook is unintentionally way funnier as well. They both show similar grammar mistakes and patterns though, and rigid opinions. Both talk authoritatively while expressing wrong information.

I'm leaning towards them being different but very similar people.  :police:
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: hangook77 on March 14, 2022, 12:18:19 pm
So where does that put you?

Anyways, your post(s) have hangook77 written all over them.


It ain't me.  I think the mods will confirm that.  But keep wearing that tin foil hat Alex Jones gave you.
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: hangook77 on March 14, 2022, 12:19:38 pm
FFS, it is 2022 if you haven't noticed yet.
It could've been true 20-30 years ago, pre-internet.
But in the last 10-15 years, one would need to be a special kind of moron if they are unaware of the ins and outs of the efl industry in Korea or anywhere else where they plan to live and teach. But they're supposed to be college grads. And they would most likely know about this wonderul thing called internet.
Your argument is mind blowingly stupid.

You are assuming some young people actually do this thing called "research?"  Though word is slowly getting out about the crappy pay to them....
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: Lazio on March 14, 2022, 12:43:16 pm
They have slightly different focal points in their repeating rhetoric, and Hidden shows a disdain to workers from non-Anglo countries in many posts that I haven't noticed hangook express. hangook is unintentionally way funnier as well. They both show similar grammar mistakes and patterns though, and rigid opinions. Both talk authoritatively while expressing wrong information.

I'm leaning towards them being different but very similar people.  :police:

After I pointed out that Hidden used hangook77's signature phrase ''use to'' at least 3 or 4 times, now he carefully edits his posts to make sure it's not there anymore.
But even without those, there are many signs. I'm certain it's hangook's sock.
A vpn would help him cover his trail from the mods. Not sure why he would use a sock. But at the same time he writes a whole bunch of things that makes one scratch their head. So it fits into his MO.
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: HiddenInKorea on March 14, 2022, 02:09:06 pm
They have slightly different focal points in their repeating rhetoric, and Hidden shows a disdain to workers from non-Anglo countries in many posts that I haven't noticed hangook express. hangook is unintentionally way funnier as well. They both show similar grammar mistakes and patterns though, and rigid opinions. Both talk authoritatively while expressing wrong information.

I'm leaning towards them being different but very similar people.  :police:

I have more of a problem with Korea's visa requirements and wages based on required skills and education, nothing personally against the actual migrant workers. The migrant workers are clever. They are just individuals taking advantage of a good opportunity that came about from their predecessors protesting low wages and inequality, and bringing their problems to the media. In fact, that is probably what got them the higher wages, they made their Korean companies "lose face," in front of media and they were "shamed" into improving the conditions in order to not "look bad".  After all Korea is all about that outward appearance and reputation.
Has anyone here ever heard of Yombie Tonna? If I remember his name correctly... the refugee from Congo who arrived in 2002... in one of the programs he openly talked about spreading awareness about the difficulties he faced in Korea as a refugee and was invited to appear on TV. In the interview, he mentioned trying to put down a deposit on an apartment to bring his family over and he was scammed by the Korean landlord/ owner... After the interview the president of Samsung called him, apologized on behalf of that man and offered to pay for this apartment... and Zombie said that it was because the president was ashamed about Korean stealing from a poor African man... it made the country lose face... he couldn't handle it.. Maybe if NETs decided to organize and bring their problems to the media things might change, who knows.

However, as the problem stands today, it just doesn't seem right to require  NETs to have to obtain a university degree which costs thousands of dollars per year and pays them less than a local bus driver or a migrant worker.
In that case, Korean University lecturer positions should be offered to those with Bachelor's Degrees, higher-paid positions/leadership positions for those with M.As, and tenure track for those with PHDs.
EPIK positions could be offered to those with college diplomas (you don't need a full B.A to be an assistant), and then there would be nothing to complain about as the level of expertise and education would justify the pay.
Even a high school graduate with only a high school diploma has most of the qualifications. They have the 21 years behind them that they spent growing up in the Western country as a native speaker with perfect Western pronunciation and intonation as their credential.



Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: HiddenInKorea on March 14, 2022, 02:37:37 pm
After I pointed out that Hidden used hangook77's signature phrase ''use to'' at least 3 or 4 times, now he carefully edits his posts to make sure it's not there anymore.
But even without those, there are many signs. I'm certain it's hangook's sock.
A vpn would help him cover his trail from the mods. Not sure why he would use a sock. But at the same time he writes a whole bunch of things that makes one scratch their head. So it fits into his MO.

Sorry to disappoint you again detective... I'm not Hangook....
Do you personally know Hangook? Have you met him/her in real life?
What do you want me to do ...face time you so you can see that I'm not him/her ???

Maybe the way we write to express our thoughts of unhappiness looks similar to you? I don't know....
Anyways I'm really over this...... I don't know what visa this Hangook person has but if it's an E-2 the future is bleak and complaints about low salaries declining/ depreciating are a valid concern affecting his/ her livelihood.


Maybe a better thing to ask here..
What are the job prospects/ salaries like for those who are on an F- series visa?
Is it possible to make 50,000 or more an hour doing temporary short-term substitute work for hagwons or universities?
Is it sustainable?
Also, with an F visa we are no longer tied down to doing only Engish teaching jobs, right?





Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: Renma on March 14, 2022, 03:02:38 pm
However, as the problem stands today, it just doesn't seem right to require  NETs to have to obtain a university degree which costs thousands of dollars per year and pays them less than a local bus driver or a migrant worker.
In that case, Korean University lecturer positions should be offered to those with Bachelor's Degrees, higher-paid positions/leadership positions for those with M.As, and tenure track for those with PHDs.
EPIK positions could be offered to those with college diplomas (you don't need a full B.A to be an assistant), and then there would be nothing to complain about as the level of expertise and education would justify the pay.
Even a high school graduate with only a high school diploma has most of the qualifications. They have the 21 years behind them that they spent growing up in the Western country as a native speaker with perfect Western pronunciation and intonation as their credential.

In an ideal world, that would be nice. There's no incentive for the public and private sector here to do that however. We aren't owed an automatic cushy existence here for our life choices, and there's no need to raise the pay and benefits when it's proven that people will still take jobs with ever decreasing renumeration. You're better off changing your own circumstance rather than expecting Korea to go against it's own interests to help a tiny entitled group of migrant workers (which is what most of us are) that most Koreans are ambivalent or indifferent towards.

You have a marriage visa however, so you have a ton of options available. The F6 opens more doors than the F2 series, so you can work for whoever will take you and quit whenever you please. You can open a business too I believe, something F2's were formerly allowed to (or turned a blind eye to), but has been cracked down upon recently.
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: HiddenInKorea on March 14, 2022, 03:22:56 pm
In an ideal world, that would be nice. There's no incentive for the public and private sector here to do that however. We aren't owed an automatic cushy existence here for our life choices, and there's no need to raise the pay and benefits when it's proven that people will still take jobs with ever decreasing renumeration. You're better off changing your own circumstance rather than expecting Korea to go against it's own interests to help a tiny entitled group of migrant workers (which is what most of us are) that most Koreans are ambivalent or indifferent towards.

You have a marriage visa however, so you have a ton of options available. The F6 opens more doors than the F2 series, so you can work for whoever will take you and quit whenever you please. You can open a business too I believe, something F2's were formerly allowed to (or turned a blind eye to), but has been cracked down upon recently.

Yes, that is true. We are all part of the migrant worker pool, although ESL teachers were once appreciated and considered elite and respected, and now not so much. You are right that there is absolutely no incentive whatsoever to change things in favor of the ESL teachers since Korea is a country for Koreans first. If the Hakwon bosses are happy, employed, generating income, paying their taxes.... well then the government is happy. And EPIK is the government sector, and no one ever became rich working for the government whether local or foreign.

Opening up my own 공부방/ study room would be something that I'd consider doing some time in the near future.
It's probably the most profitable option and the one that makes the most financial sense long term.
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: Lazio on March 15, 2022, 07:27:25 am
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Sorry to disappoint you again detective... I'm not Hangook....
Do you personally know Hangook? Have you met him/her in real life?
What do you want me to do ...face time you so you can see that I'm not him/her ???

Maybe the way we write to express our thoughts of unhappiness looks similar to you? I don't know....

Posting something like this could confirm a few things that you wrote. If it checks out, I owe you an apology and even to hangook. Of course you're not obligated to do it but then I will just go with my assumption about you.
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: HiddenInKorea on March 15, 2022, 07:36:18 am
(http://)
Posting something like this could confirm a few things that you wrote. If it checks out, I owe you an apology and even to hangook. Of course you're not obligated to do it but then I will just go with my assumption about you.

That sounds good! I think  I got that ARC with me in my wallet today!
Will be back to update with photo after my morning classes are over!!!
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: Lazio on March 15, 2022, 07:54:05 am
That sounds good! I think  I got that ARC with me in my wallet today!
Will be back to update with photo after my morning classes are over!!!

Okay, that checks out! Thank you for doing this.

I apologize to HiddenInKorea and Hangook77 for assuming that the two accounts belonged to the same person. I was wrong.

I will be back later with some answers about the F-6 visa. Although my card was issued just a few months ago, I actually obtained my visa more than 10 years ago. Just the old one had no more space on the back to put yet another new address on it. So I got a brand new card at my last renewal.

Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: Kyndo on March 15, 2022, 08:03:46 am
^

Here exists a rare example of *proof* that it's possible to admit to having made an error online.

In the unlikely event that I'm ever mistaken, I hope that I can be equally gracious.  :smiley:
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: Lazio on March 15, 2022, 08:41:26 am
^

Here exists a rare example of *proof* that it's possible to admit to having made an error online.

In the unlikely event that I'm ever mistaken, I hope that I can be equally gracious.  :smiley:

The least I can do is own my mistake. It doesn't take much. I admit I was kind of a jerk about this, because I was so sure. But turns out, I was wrong.
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: HiddenInKorea on March 15, 2022, 08:57:48 am
Okay, that checks out! Thank you for doing this.

I apologize to HiddenInKorea and Hangook77 for assuming that the two accounts belonged to the same person. I was wrong.

I will be back later with some answers about the F-6 visa. Although my card was issued just a few months ago, I actually obtained my visa more than 10 years ago. Just the old one had no more space on the back to put yet another new address on it. So I got a brand new card at my last renewal.



No worries, apology accepted!

I have nothing against Hangook77, as a previous E-2 visa holder (I am assuming Hangook77 is here on an E-2 visa/ or maybe another F series visa like an F-2??) since posting an F-6 ARC card was sufficient proof to distinguish myself),
I really do sympathize with Hangook77 on things regarding depreciating ESL wages, diminishing opportunities, and just being limited in opportunities considering a Western ESL teacher is someone that the Korean government decides to grant a visa to for providing a specialized skill. 

Also, I feel bad for Hangook77, it seems there are so many on here that are strongly against and out to get him/ her on here :(

Edit- I am honestly curious as to whether or not people on here know Hangook77 in real life and if Hagook has done anything extremely seriously offensive to anyone. To me, the posts just come off as being fed up and unsatisfied with the Korean system, but also powerless do do anything to fight it as a solo 외국인 ,with  no back up from anywhere.
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: Kayos on March 15, 2022, 09:11:02 am
No worries, apology accepted!

I have nothing against Hangook77, as a previous E-2 visa holder (I am assuming Hangook77 is here on an E-2 visa/ or maybe another F series visa like an F-2??) since posting an F-6 ARC card was sufficient proof to distinguish myself),
I really do sympathize with Hangook77 on things regarding depreciating ESL wages, diminishing opportunities, and just being limited in opportunities considering a Western ESL teacher is someone that the Korean government decides to grant a visa to for providing a specialized skill. 

Also, I feel bad for Hangook77, it seems there are so many on here that are strongly against and out to get him/ her on here :(

Edit- I am honestly curious as to whether or not people on here know Hangook77 in real life and if Hagook has done anything extremely seriously offensive to anyone. To me, the posts just come off as being fed up and unsatisfied with the Korean system, but also powerless do do anything to fight it as a solo 외국인 ,with  no back up from anywhere.

I have nothing against Hangook77, but he just has a habit of turning any subject into a debate about current wages and conditions here. For some countries, like SA and NZ, wages and benefits are pretty decent, for US it's getting worse, and pointing out that: some countries have favorable exchange rates with Korea, or people pointing out that they are making more than 2.1 - is often seen by them, as defending low wages and stuff. I do get that he comes off as being fed up with current stuff, but s/he also won't accept view points from those where the wage exchanges favorably compared to the US, and that can get a bit annoying, but does provide more stuff to read during the day.
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: yolopopo on March 15, 2022, 11:54:26 am
At its core, the E-2 visa is not designed for long-term use. For the vast majority, this will be true. It is used for a year, maybe 2. This is reflected in the programs or businesses which use the E-2, primarily; EPIK and hagwons, both institutions having very basic requirements to qualify/apply.

Now, if you are fresh out of uni, want to do a year in a different country then Korea is an absolute win.

Enjoy a new culture, meet new people, party, have no work concerns, easily save (let's pluck out a number of 700,000 a month), and do a job that...well c'mon...it's pretty easy (isn't that why people stay? That or married).

If you do decide to say Korea is 'home', then, like you would in your home country, wouldn't you start to plan how you are going to sustain yourself (possibly a family too) long term? Easy to see then that any job on an E-2 (long-term) is a dead end.
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: Lazio on March 15, 2022, 12:02:07 pm
Maybe a better thing to ask here..
What are the job prospects/ salaries like for those who are on an F- series visa?
Is it possible to make 50,000 or more an hour doing temporary short-term substitute work for hagwons or universities?
Is it sustainable?
Also, with an F visa we are no longer tied down to doing only Engish teaching jobs, right?

There are many smaller hagwons that don't need a full-time foreign teacher. So they just hire someone for 1 or 2 afternoons/week. These are not substitute or temporary positions. They can go on for long term as well.
Basically there are hagwon positions from around 2pm to 6-7-8 pm. With some luck, 4-5 block hours can be secured at one location.
Before that, one could schedule some kindergarten/business English classes. Kinders would be shorter hours, normally 10am to noon or so. And then the evening hours can be filled up with some privates.

In over 10 years here, I never had a full-time job. Currently I work for 6 different places, which means some variety in my daily routine. Not to mention that my income is coming from 6 different sources, so it's more secure than having a single job.
My strategy is to fill the afternoons with decent paying block hours at hagwons. That's the bulk of my hours and therefore income. And add some shorter, but high paying extra jobs to a few mornings. But no more than 2 locations a day. I find that at around 30 hours a week, it's starting to get demanding both physically and mentally so I make sure to keep it at around 25. I actually never worked over 30 hours/week. Different people can handle different workloads though. Currently I have 28 hours a week which is kind of pushing my comfortable limit, but some hours can drop in the future. And I'm being paid well to endure it so that is why I agreed to do a few extra hours recently. I was doing 21-23 hours for the past 2 years. It was super manageable but with less money of course.

The F-6 visa allows you to do pretty much anything. Most of my closest foreign friends have never been teaching in Korea.
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: HiddenInKorea on March 15, 2022, 06:28:00 pm
There are many smaller hagwons that don't need a full-time foreign teacher. So they just hire someone for 1 or 2 afternoons/week. These are not substitute or temporary positions. They can go on for long term as well.
Basically there are hagwon positions from around 2pm to 6-7-8 pm. With some luck, 4-5 block hours can be secured at one location.
Before that, one could schedule some kindergarten/business English classes. Kinders would be shorter hours, normally 10am to noon or so. And then the evening hours can be filled up with some privates.

In over 10 years here, I never had a full-time job. Currently I work for 6 different places, which means some variety in my daily routine. Not to mention that my income is coming from 6 different sources, so it's more secure than having a single job.
My strategy is to fill the afternoons with decent paying block hours at hagwons. That's the bulk of my hours and therefore income. And add some shorter, but high paying extra jobs to a few mornings. But no more than 2 locations a day. I find that at around 30 hours a week, it's starting to get demanding both physically and mentally so I make sure to keep it at around 25. I actually never worked over 30 hours/week. Different people can handle different workloads though. Currently I have 28 hours a week which is kind of pushing my comfortable limit, but some hours can drop in the future. And I'm being paid well to endure it so that is why I agreed to do a few extra hours recently. I was doing 21-23 hours for the past 2 years. It was super manageable but with less money of course.

The F-6 visa allows you to do pretty much anything. Most of my closest foreign friends have never been teaching in Korea.

Nice to hear that we can have complete freedom when it comes to employment!

I am hoping to make a transition from EPIK to multiple part time Hakwon work, get some experience with students of all  ages, try out different types of curriculum, and learn some management strategies, and hopefully
run a small study room later on as that seems as the best option so far.

Can I ask what industries are your foreign friends working in? Did they have to go back to University here to learn Korean and credentials to work in their jobs?
The only work that I know of that doesn’t require Korean skills is ESL and the factory work.
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: Renma on March 16, 2022, 08:24:39 am
If you're married to a Korean and intending to settle down here, you probably want to learn Korean.
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: HiddenInKorea on March 16, 2022, 09:38:53 am
If you're married to a Korean and intending to settle down here, you probably want to learn Korean.

I know, I have been working on learning Korean before coming here, mostly through self-study and befriending Korean international students back while I was in college.
So far I can understand up to a mid - intermediate level of Korean. I can understand 80% or more of all the conversations my co-teachers have in the office and comfortably communicate with my husband's parents, inlaws etc.
However, I am nowhere near Tyler Rasch's level of Korean, but would love to get there one day!

I need to make money, so I can't really take months off to attend the full-time language programs here, but do want to take part in online Kiip, and continue to improve through exposure and immersion.
Title: Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
Post by: Lazio on March 16, 2022, 11:18:42 am
Nice to hear that we can have complete freedom when it comes to employment!

I am hoping to make a transition from EPIK to multiple part time Hakwon work, get some experience with students of all  ages, try out different types of curriculum, and learn some management strategies, and hopefully
run a small study room later on as that seems as the best option so far.

Can I ask what industries are your foreign friends working in? Did they have to go back to University here to learn Korean and credentials to work in their jobs?
The only work that I know of that doesn’t require Korean skills is ESL and the factory work.

There are the ones that studied at Korean universities, either as exchange students or doing a full master's. So of course they speak Korean well. But apart from them, I know some that didn't speak Korean almost at all when they started working here.

One guy is an engineer. He was working for a Korean tire company back home. That's how he met his wife. They ended up in Korea. He even worked some odd jobs like restaurants and such at the beginning, just to keep himself occupied. Later he got a job at a smallish company that manufactures some car parts. The fact that he worked for a Korean company before was probably a great plus. He speaks basic Korean but he mostly uses English at work as he deals with customers from other countries. When he got the job he knew survival Korean at best. The money he makes is nothing to write home about though. He gave up a promising career back home. But that way his wife didn't need to give up hers so she is now making a ton of money working for a global company.

Another one came here and was in finance for a while. At that time he didn't speak much beyond very beginner Korean. Over time he became fluent and worked in other fields too. He is now working for his own government but in Korea.