Waygook.org
All about South Korea => Life in Korea => Topic started by: obwannabe on January 27, 2022, 01:25:17 pm
-
I keep seeing ads for "pt" jobs that just seem like highway robbery. If you calculate the per hour rate of these, many tend to be in the 13.5k~16.5k/hr range. And since they are pt jobs the employers save on housing, health, pension, etc.
Taking into consideration that we have entered prime hiring season and covid has made it very difficult for new teachers to enter from abroad....my expectation was that there would be an increase in the hourly rate. But sadly it isn't so.
I dont think I've ever seen it so bad out there.
My pt job pays 40k/hr bit I've been at this job for 2 years. I'm afraid i may not find another like it
What's driving this race to the bottom?
-
idiots actually taking them. Theres a hagwon in my town who repeatedly hires international students illegally from the local university. They are students from Ghana, Nepal, India, Russia. The school hires them for 2 days a week, then fires them a couple months later when parents complain about their accents / English level. They work for peanuts basically because its illegal for them to work at all. These kinds of jobs will never get a qualified teacher from one of the 6 regions that are eligible for the E2. But, if they never get caught hiring illegally... then theres no incentive for them to actually hire a full time E2 or F visa holder. They arent bound by paying for housing, airfare, competitive wages, admin and paperwork. And they can fire them at any time with zero negative effect because they know the worker will never complain because they were violating their student visa in the first place.
-
idiots actually taking them. Theres a hagwon in my town who repeatedly hires international students illegally from the local university. They are students from Ghana, Nepal, India, Russia. The school hires them for 2 days a week, then fires them a couple months later when parents complain about their accents / English level. They work for peanuts basically because its illegal for them to work at all. These kinds of jobs will never get a qualified teacher from one of the 6 regions that are eligible for the E2. But, if they never get caught hiring illegally... then theres no incentive for them to actually hire a full time E2 or F visa holder. They arent bound by paying for housing, airfare, competitive wages, admin and paperwork. And they can fire them at any time with zero negative effect because they know the worker will never complain because they were violating their student visa in the first place.
1. Simply being from one of the 7 countries doesn’t make one “qualified” to teach ESL. Ghana is a native English speaking country as is India.
2. Notice how these “unqualified” people aren’t being fired for things like poor pedagogical practice, poor knowledge of the English language, poor curriculum, poor classroom management etc…but rather for something as stupid as “the wrong accent” or perceived “English level” by parents who can barely speak the language themselves. The parents are as big a problem as people who truly believe being from 7 countries makes one a “qualified” esl teacher.
3. ESL is in the state it’s in today because it’s an unregulated industry dictated to by clowns (parents) and controlled by opportunists (businesses who will give the parents whatever they want as long as the moolah keeps rolling in).
The market got this bad because in the past 2 years, hagwons in Korea have learned how much further they can push/bend/stretch/take the piss with their docile foreign staff…who only keep coming back for more and applying to be treated like shit in droves. They (hagwons) spent 20 years doing that pre-covid , depressing wages, gradually reducing benefits, increasing workload (lunch duty, bus duty, toilet duty etc), doing tons of shady things, but people kept coming for lower and lower pay while profits kept soaring.
And then when they thought covid would be the straw that would break the camel’s back, they were astonished to discover teachers were even willing to endure 2 weeks of quarantine in filthy, barely furnished and decaying one-room-tels and even not get paid for a few months (because hagwon has no students, but owner still drives that luxury German car)…all for the chance to be in “trendy” Korea!
Even EPIK now has a pomposity-riddled application process where even having tattoos in places where students and colleagues would most likely never see them would disqualify applicants…all for the grand starting salary of 1.8 million krw per month before tax!
I predicted esl in Korea would get worse when the pandemic started, in high it has. I’m predicting now it hasn’t even reached halfway to rock bottom. Until foreign teachers bring the industry to its knees by leaving and staying away, things will continue to be in free fall mode.
ESL doesn’t have to be a dead end job. For those who want to take it seriously as a long term career, my suggestion would be to get properly qualified (teaching certificate/license/M.Ed etc) and go where the money matches the qualifications…that and/or consider ELA in international as a viable option as well.
-
1. Simply being from one of the 7 countries doesn’t make one “qualified” to teach ESL. Ghana is a native English speaking country as is India.
2. Notice how these “unqualified” people aren’t being fired for things like poor pedagogical practice, poor knowledge of the English language, poor curriculum, poor classroom management etc…but rather for something as stupid as “the wrong accent” or perceived “English level” by parents who can barely speak the language themselves. The parents are as big a problem as people who truly believe being from 7 countries makes one a “qualified” esl teacher.
3. ESL is in the state it’s in today because it’s an unregulated industry dictated to by clowns (parents) and controlled by opportunists (businesses who will give the parents whatever they want as long as the moolah keeps rolling in).
The market got this bad because in the past 2 years, hagwons in Korea have learned how much further they can push/bend/stretch/take the piss with their docile foreign staff…who only keep coming back for more and applying to be treated like shit in droves. They (hagwons) spent 20 years doing that pre-covid , depressing wages, gradually reducing benefits, increasing workload (lunch duty, bus duty, toilet duty etc), doing tons of shady things, but people kept coming for lower and lower pay while profits kept soaring.
And then when they thought covid would be the straw that would break the camel’s back, they were astonished to discover teachers were even willing to endure 2 weeks of quarantine in filthy, barely furnished and decaying one-room-tels and even not get paid for a few months (because hagwon has no students, but owner still drives that luxury German car)…all for the chance to be in “trendy” Korea!
Even EPIK now has a pomposity-riddled application process where even having tattoos in places where students and colleagues would most likely never see them would disqualify applicants…all for the grand starting salary of 1.8 million krw per month before tax!
I predicted esl in Korea would get worse when the pandemic started, in high it has. I’m predicting now it hasn’t even reached halfway to rock bottom. Until foreign teachers bring the industry to its knees by leaving and staying away, things will continue to be in free fall mode.
ESL doesn’t have to be a dead end job. For those who want to take it seriously as a long term career, my suggestion would be to get properly qualified (teaching certificate/license/M.Ed etc) and go where the money matches the qualifications…that and/or consider ELA in international as a viable option as well.
Newman!!!
-
I think the reason is quite simple.
There has always been an interest for some people in western countries
to venture out and explore. So the supply of teachers has not changed.
Korean demographics are another matter. With the lowest birthrate in
the world the number of students is shrinking. So demand is contracting.
This will obviously lead to a lower price being offered to prospective teachers.
Add to this most teachers are completely untrained and of dubious
value to any business.
-
Yes, the market is the worse I've ever seen, too.
Bakeacake is right. I've had people from various ex soviet countries knock on my door from time to time, looking for holiday teaching work. I also think many businesses are lacking students so they are trying to cut corners where ever they can...salaries and conditions being the first. They're trying their luck and hope someone will bite. I'm pretty sure full time newby jobs with horrible salaries and hours are still being filled, again driving the market down for others.
As fo P.T jobs. I'm starting to think non native F. visa people are taking them. No right-minded person would even consider what is being thrown around, presently.
It's probably those F visa marriage migrants from countries like the Philippines or some European countries, that don't qualify for full-time English teaching positions, so they take on a few part-time jobs to make a few extra bucks while their kids are at school. And the international students seem to be a sought-after target group for these part-time jobs as well. Recently there is a really big English play-based Kids Cafe Franchise which has been opening up branches all across the country, and they had some ads for pt positions claiming that University students and non-native speakers could apply as this is not an "English-teaching" position, but more of an interactive cafe where all you do is "play" with the kids in English. These cafes are in some of the biggest department stores and I'm sure the owners are making a mad profit from this as the moms probably pay huge fees for their kids to join in while they pay the non-native English speakers 12,000 an hour. They have full-time positions for native English speakers from the 7 Elite English-speaking countries, but it only goes up to 2.6 and there is no housing stipend or housing offered at all.
-
1. Simply being from one of the 7 countries doesn’t make one “qualified” to teach ESL. Ghana is a native English speaking country as is India.
2. Notice how these “unqualified” people aren’t being fired for things like poor pedagogical practice, poor knowledge of the English language, poor curriculum, poor classroom management etc…but rather for something as stupid as “the wrong accent” or perceived “English level” by parents who can barely speak the language themselves. The parents are as big a problem as people who truly believe being from 7 countries makes one a “qualified” esl teacher.
3. ESL is in the state it’s in today because it’s an unregulated industry dictated to by clowns (parents) and controlled by opportunists (businesses who will give the parents whatever they want as long as the moolah keeps rolling in).
The market got this bad because in the past 2 years, hagwons in Korea have learned how much further they can push/bend/stretch/take the piss with their docile foreign staff…who only keep coming back for more and applying to be treated like shit in droves. They (hagwons) spent 20 years doing that pre-covid , depressing wages, gradually reducing benefits, increasing workload (lunch duty, bus duty, toilet duty etc), doing tons of shady things, but people kept coming for lower and lower pay while profits kept soaring.
And then when they thought covid would be the straw that would break the camel’s back, they were astonished to discover teachers were even willing to endure 2 weeks of quarantine in filthy, barely furnished and decaying one-room-tels and even not get paid for a few months (because hagwon has no students, but owner still drives that luxury German car)…all for the chance to be in “trendy” Korea!
Even EPIK now has a pomposity-riddled application process where even having tattoos in places where students and colleagues would most likely never see them would disqualify applicants…all for the grand starting salary of 1.8 million krw per month before tax!
I predicted esl in Korea would get worse when the pandemic started, in high it has. I’m predicting now it hasn’t even reached halfway to rock bottom. Until foreign teachers bring the industry to its knees by leaving and staying away, things will continue to be in free fall mode.
ESL doesn’t have to be a dead end job. For those who want to take it seriously as a long term career, my suggestion would be to get properly qualified (teaching certificate/license/M.Ed etc) and go where the money matches the qualifications…that and/or consider ELA in international as a viable option as well.
EPIK is just becoming a really comfortable internship position for the young privileged youth from the 7 Elite English Speaking Countries.
-
EPIK is just becoming a really comfortable internship position for the young privileged youth from the 7 Elite English Speaking Countries.
That's about it. And they're a dime a dozen. They're is still money to be
made if you are freelance or have a business, but that to is becoming
less.
-
Dude! I’m going through this now. I specifically pointed out the savings and they still try to short change. Good news is I can walk out anytime. Hagwon owners may not be the sharpest knife but man they can haggle with the best of them.
https://youtu.be/SXveyAvkjbc
-
It's probably those F visa marriage migrants from countries like the Philippines or some European countries, that don't qualify for full-time English teaching positions, so they take on a few part-time jobs to make a few extra bucks while their kids are at school. And the international students seem to be a sought-after target group for these part-time jobs as well. Recently there is a really big English play-based Kids Cafe Franchise which has been opening up branches all across the country, and they had some ads for pt positions claiming that University students and non-native speakers could apply as this is not an "English-teaching" position, but more of an interactive cafe where all you do is "play" with the kids in English. These cafes are in some of the biggest department stores and I'm sure the owners are making a mad profit from this as the moms probably pay huge fees for their kids to join in while they pay the non-native English speakers 12,000 an hour. They have full-time positions for native English speakers from the 7 Elite English-speaking countries, but it only goes up to 2.6 and there is no housing stipend or housing offered at all.
They claim they're looking for Native speakers but I can't fathom who'd do it
https://seoul.craigslist.org/edu/d/english-kids-cafe-need-tutors-in-bundang/7437709432.html
-
They claim they're looking for Native speakers but I can't fathom who'd do it
https://seoul.craigslist.org/edu/d/english-kids-cafe-need-tutors-in-bundang/7437709432.html
This is definitely aimed at those University exchange students with a high level of English... That is like 1,000 won above min wage.. no self-respecting Native English Speaker would take this kind of pay.
Maybe a Native speaker here could mean someone who attended an international school in their home country and can speak English almost as well as a Native Speaker.
-
Yes, there are a lot of people here who can't get a full time position, but can speak and teach English to a fairly high level. My bet would be they get employed under the table for less money and no conditions.
As for this new Kids Cafe thing, I'd never heard about it. Very creative! I guess that's what everyone needs to get...more creative, if money making is your object (and it is for most). My wife and I were actually talking about this (not the kids cafe), this morning. Looks like 2022 might be a busy, get off my arse some more, year.
The Kid's Cafe Chain is called Creville.
Here is a job ad for it ....https://www.theworknplay.com/Work/Detail/Job/215422
The full-time salary for a Native English Speaker is 2.5 mill (without housing), a bit on the low side, but there is literally no prep, it's just come in an play / engage the kids with all materials provided.
I guess it is more of a summer camp leader- facilitator kind of role.
And for the nonnative speakers or the underqualified Uni exchange students, it's 12,000 won per hour.
If this was 3.0 mill + housing I would consider taking a full-time position! Watched a few insta videos and it looks really fun there!
I really love running classes/ teaching / facilitating but really hate the lesson planning prep and making my own materials from scratch.
-
The experienced teachers who are competent at their job will be replaced by those who don't give a crap about teaching and want to do a gap year and live a K drama on Netflix lifestyle. The arrogant so and so's making the decisions will learn it the hard and the stubborn way when they have more crap teachers. Get a formal in class TESOL and some other training and find another country, make more money with most likely a longer welcome mat rolled out for you. Or stay here and work for less.
-
This is actually the best market there has ever been for a native teacher. There are not native teachers in this country. You can demand whatever salary you want! Just dont be a dummy and take the jobs from Scotty . You could easily get a job at 2.7 with no experience right now. With experience, you could be making 3-3.5 plus housing. Schools need the foreign teacher. If they dont have one, they lose business to the school that does. Know what youre worth in the current market! and DON'T work for EPIK!
-
This is actually the best market there has ever been for a native teacher. There are not native teachers in this country. You can demand whatever salary you want! Just dont be a dummy and take the jobs from Scotty . You could easily get a job at 2.7 with no experience right now. With experience, you could be making 3-3.5 plus housing. Schools need the foreign teacher. If they dont have one, they lose business to the school that does. Know what youre worth in the current market! and DON'T work for EPIK!
EPIK in my area has lost so many experienced teachers over the past year. These are folks who stuck with it through thick and thin for years. But all the nonsense rule ad ons and increased micromanagement has driven people out.
Anyways, I just saw a Facebook group. English Teaching Jobs in Korea/ ESL Teachers/ Private lessons page. Just liked it. Seem to have some okay offers though if you can ask for more than what they are offering you may be able to get to 2.8 to 3.0 million for some of their hakwons. Plenty of lowballs, but ignore those.
-
This is actually the best market there has ever been for a native teacher. There are not native teachers in this country. You can demand whatever salary you want! Just dont be a dummy and take the jobs from Scotty . You could easily get a job at 2.7 with no experience right now. With experience, you could be making 3-3.5 plus housing. Schools need the foreign teacher. If they dont have one, they lose business to the school that does. Know what youre worth in the current market! and DON'T work for EPIK!
Where are most of these good 3.0 ~ 3.5 mill a month Jobs?
Is it certain larger Hakwon chains that are offering this salary?
-
Where are most of these good 3.0 ~ 3.5 mill a month Jobs?
Is it certain larger Hakwon chains that are offering this salary?
apply for a job, interview, demand the salary you want. dont take the job if they dont meet your requirement.
-
Where are most of these good 3.0 ~ 3.5 mill a month Jobs?
Is it certain larger Hakwon chains that are offering this salary?
Well, check the Facebook group I mentioned. I saw a few in there.
-
"Every morning about this time, my baby's on me and she cryin'
About a job
At breakfast every day, she throws the want ads my way
She never fails to say, get yourself a job
(Get a job)
And when I read the paper, I read it through and through
And my girl never fails to see if there is any work for me
And when I get back to the house, I hear that woman's mouth
Preaching and a cryin', tellin' me I'm lyin' about a job
That I never could find
(Get a job)"
-
This is actually the best market there has ever been for a native teacher. There are not native teachers in this country. You can demand whatever salary you want! Just dont be a dummy and take the jobs from Scotty . You could easily get a job at 2.7 with no experience right now. With experience, you could be making 3-3.5 plus housing. Schools need the foreign teacher. If they dont have one, they lose business to the school that does. Know what youre worth in the current market! and DON'T work for EPIK!
That was true until they shelved the quarantine requirement one week ago.
Add in the soaring inflation and discarded covid regulation in the west now, and I bet the market is just about to become flooded with applicants.
-
Only 2% of America's population lives in an area in which mask mandates are still in place. You think they're gonna flee the US out of desire to get into a country where triple vaccinated people must always wear a mask? If so, they're more afraid of Covid than they should be. Which many are.
-
That was true until they shelved the quarantine requirement one week ago.
Add in the soaring inflation and discarded covid regulation in the west now, and I bet the market is just about to become flooded with applicants.
currency exchange to USD or CDN isnt good. the market MAY become flooded with South Africans. There's a preference in this country when it comes to foreign teachers. If you know where you are on that list, you can ask for what you want. Don't take anything less than you want.
-
Don't take anything less than you want.
I don't essentially care about money. I really care in terms of equivalencies. But it never is that.
That said, in 2006 I took a 2.6 mill Monday to Thursday 4pm-650pm hagwon position in Hadong, South Gyeongsang province, an opportunity due to the widespread influx of waygooks into public schools, meaning the only competition to GMB (GNB? dunno which - think GNB chain, don't gaf) was my hagwon, i the 2nd waygook hagwon teacher in Hadong (despite four public school waygooks: my bud getting a 3-bedroom apartment for his older self and dog, though... he stunned me two years later by bailing for China and disappearing thereafter).
I later averaged 3.1 to 3.3 mill on Jeju Island (due to great OT rates, working not 4-8 but 3-10 and having 3 hours Saturday morn) for 8 years.
These days? Due to COVID19, i'm accepting less hours for less pay in the town i've taught since '17. But... I may bail soon or re-sign a 6th year and take another pay cut for the smaller student body, though most of my students are great!
-
These days? Due to COVID19, i'm accepting less hours for less pay in the town i've taught since '17. But... I may bail soon or re-sign a 6th year and take another pay cut for the smaller student body, though most of my students are great!
It could be different in urban areas and more rural places. But overall, the hagwon industry had its best year on record in 2021.
-
It could be different in urban areas and more rural places. But overall, the hagwon industry had its best year on record in 2021.
Dang! Not even close based on eslcafe job offers. Where are these great offers?
-
Dang! Not even close based on eslcafe job offers. Where are these great offers?
I don't know if the current offers reflect this or not, as I don't really follow those.
But private education expenditures reached an all-time high last year. So hagwons are not necessarily struggling with low enrollment like yours. It's the opposite it seems.
https://mn.kbs.co.kr/mobile/news/view.do?ncd=5413476
Couldn't find an English version. Use papago or google to translate.
-
If anything south of 2.6 mill is all-time highs, then the average is not as bi-modal as it used to be.
In 2006-2009 there were TONS of 2 4-2.6 mill a month positions. Now? It's back to wtf 2.2? 2 2? .... with inflation.... k .. maybe compared to back home or with residence included, but not at all many top end positions.
I have been here since 2002. If you think positions PAY MORE now then please present details. They aren't paying as much in my universe. It ain't even close.
-
If anything south of 2.6 mill is all-time highs, then the average is not as bi-modal as it used to be.
In 2006-2009 there were TONS of 2 4-2.6 mill a month positions. Now? It's back to wtf 2.2? 2 2? .... with inflation.... k .. maybe compared to back home or with residence included, but not at all many top end positions.
I have been here since 2002. If you think positions PAY MORE now then please present details. They aren't paying as much in my universe. It ain't even close.
Again, I wrote nothing about high salaries. These are the official numbers about the industry as a whole. From that, it's clear that shrinking student numbers (and reducing one's hours and pay) is not the norm these days.
It doesn't mean that every single hagwon is doing well, but the industry as a whole is. In the capital area and large cities it could be different from smaller towns.
Point is: overall the student enrollments are up and there is more money poured into private education than ever before. There could be shifts were the students are. Like Kurt said, maybe larger places with various subjects, or franchises are doing way better than small schools. But it's not really a problem for the teachers because they can go where the students are. The sector still needs teachers, probably even more than before. Just need to find where.
On the other hand, for some hagwon owners it's not that easy to stay afloat.
-
Adjusted for inflation, hagwon spending was higher in 2009. Not adjusted for inflation it’s higher now. Korean salaries are way up since 2009. So are prices.
-
.... overall the student enrollments are up and there is more money poured into private education than ever before...
Lazio. LINKS PLEASE!!!
-
There's a shift towards using Koreans who've lived overseas rather than Westerners as hagwon English teachers. Look at E-2 visa numbers. They're down. Peaked more than ten years ago. The novelty wore off. Demand declined.
-
Lazio. LINKS PLEASE!!!
Sigh.
I already gave you a link. Just read between the lines.
-
"Parents of elementary schoolkids spent more on private arts and sport lessons as their schools failed to provide."
Taekwondo classes are considered private education spending? And parents are increasingly sending their kids to art hagwons - painting and drawing classes - to get them out of the house more?
-
Here's the link for the story I read.
http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2022/03/14/2022031400522.html
The article does not specify when this occurred, no time period is given.
The government schools were shut down for long periods in 2021. Obviously this is when parents sent their kids to hogwons more to fill the gap.
This does not automatically result in better deals for ESLers however! because as business increases, more hogwons open to get a share of the cash. Thereby spreading the earnings more thinly.
-
I’ve met quite a few students going to a hagwon to study math… but #1 is piano from my experience. However, not sure how much time per week they are going to lessons. Might not be for long. Also curious about the cost. Will check. Or better yet, if anyone has knowledge about general price ranges, let us know. How much money is being poured into English education and how much is related to native speakers? A lot of it is spending to get online access to lectures and other content. Koreans do most of the teaching and get most of the money. Would a subscription to Pinkfong be counted as private education spending?
-
Would a subscription to Pinkfong be counted as private education spending?
Private education spending in that the parents will quickly learn that the 100,000 different versions of "Baby Shark" on Pinkfong will quickly lead to some serious parental depression. :cry:
Our kiddo is still too young for the whole hagwon thing, but we fully intend to send him off to tkd, piano, and some kind of sport/dance thing of his choosing when he gets a bit older.
A lot of what Koreans call hagwons are really just sports/hobby clubs etc. Using the same definition that they do here, growing up I went to swimming hagwons, martial art hagwons, football/soccer hagwons, art hagwons, drama hagwons, first aid hagwons, coding hagwons, dance hagwons, running hagwons, math hagwons, equestrian hagwons etc. :undecided:
There are differences, I know, but I think a lot of people forget all the programmes etc that their parents put them through back when they were young.
-
Taught mostly middle, and high, schools, way outside of Seoul in a mid-sized city. And from what I've gathered about 60% go to some kind of academic hagwon. Mostly core subjects like English, math, science, lang' arts. And maybe some hobby like hagwons on top of that if they are really passionate about it.
-
Adjusted for inflation, hagwon spending was higher in 2009. Not adjusted for inflation it’s higher now. Korean salaries are way up since 2009. So are prices.
Not for foreigners. Seems okay to raise Korean salaries but not for foreigners because racism. (And stupid foreigners who come over and take it.)
-
Why raise salaries for a group of people who have absolutely zero voting power?
From a Korean politician's pragmatic point of view, it's much better to appease those who benefit from keeping wages low than it is to keep economic migrants happy. There's no benefit in the latter.
Unfortunate truths. :sad:
Gotta bring your side-hustle A-game if you're here for the money!
-
Why raise salaries for a group of people who have absolutely zero voting power?
From a Korean politician's pragmatic point of view, it's much better to appease those who benefit from keeping wages low than it is to keep economic migrants happy. There's no benefit in the latter.
Unfortunate truths. :sad:
Gotta bring your side-hustle A-game if you're here for the money!
You must be drinking the apologist kool aid.
Either way, Korea use to pay a good wage and the side hustle was optional. they also use to roll out the welcome mat to make the foreigners feel welcome and now they don't.
It's pure BS and most folks should vote with their feet and leave once covid is done. F this racist place.
-
You must be drinking the apologist kool aid.
Either way, Korea use to pay a good wage and the side hustle was optional. they also use to roll out the welcome mat to make the foreigners feel welcome and now they don't.
It's pure BS and most folks should vote with their feet and leave once covid is done. F this racist place.
You overestimate our value in Korea. Koreans don't care about us. If all foreign teachers left Korea tomorrow, it really wouldn't matter, Korea will still carry on.
-
You must be drinking the apologist kool aid.
What kool-aid?
How are we important to Korean politics?
Do you disagree that NETs are a very tiny, voiceless minority?
It can be difficult, but it's best to have a realistic sense of one's position in society, else you'll end up in a very poor bargaining position when you try to leverage non-existent social-capital.
I'm not saying I like things the way they are, or that things are "fair", or what have you. I'm just stating the blindingly obvious: things aren't what they were, and if you want to make a decent wage, you need to be pro-active about it. :undecided:
-
F this racist place.
breaking News: Man who thinks country should revolve around him accuses said country of racism.
-
There are differences, I know, but I think a lot of people forget all the programmes etc that their parents put them through back when they were young.
This. Most people have this image of elementary kids going through hours of Hellwons. Usually for most it's the subject they suck at the most, maybe the subject they're the best in and actually enjoy, plus 1-2 hobby hagwons.
Now as they get older that can change, but a lot of NETs freak out over kids in hagwons for no reason.
-
What kool-aid?
How are we important to Korean politics?
Do you disagree that NETs are a very tiny, voiceless minority?
It can be difficult, but it's best to have a realistic sense of one's position in society, else you'll end up in a very poor bargaining position when you try to leverage non-existent social-capital.
I'm not saying I like things the way they are, or that things are "fair", or what have you. I'm just stating the blindingly obvious: things aren't what they were, and if you want to make a decent wage, you need to be pro-active about it. :undecided:
Korea use to be a good gig. Now it isn't. They got arrogant and condescending and took us for granted. Once covid is done, there are plenty of other options out there to be had. Korea had better smarten up or learn the hard way.
These are some Facebook ESL job groups for China:
ESL English Teachers Jobs
Teaching Jobs in China
Teaching Jobs in Asia
ESL Teacher China
ESL Job in China and Taiwan
TeachChina
ShenzhenJobsForeign
ESL Teaching jobs in China
China work visa,Internship & Job
ESL jobs in China/Teach English
ESL jobs in China (Beijing, Shanghai
English Teachers in China
If you like Vietnam instead:
English Teaching Jobs in Vietnam
English Teaching Jobs in Hanoi
English Teaching Jobs in Vietnam (The Original)
teaching English jobs and other jobs for foreigners in Vietnam
Lots of good paying offers to be had with cheaper living costs and more relaxed work conditions, especially the public school gigs.
-
In my opinion the Facebook groups are better than Daves. But this is an example of a decent listing. Some are ESL public schools. Some of them do advertise desk warming though they may not enforce it. However longer vacations and quite high pay. (Also I don't think they nickle and dime your leave earlies like they have started doing here recently.)
30 thousand rmb in some cases.
30000 rmb is 5,771,403.00 krw. Not sure if Korea is just ignorant, arrogant, or stupid that they think they can pull their low pay bs with this going on next door. Only thing holding back is the pain in the @$$ covid restrictions. Once that is done, Korea needs to experience a mass exodus to learn humility and to humble itself. They will then have to give better contracts and raise the pay a lot of lose more and more teachers.
https://www.eslcafe.com/postajob-detail/high-paying-jobs-of-primarymiddlehigh-schools?koreasearch=&koreapageno=&koreapagesize=&chinasearch=&chinapageno=1&chinapagesize=60&internationalsearch=&internationalpageno=&internationalpagesi ze=
-
Korea use to be a good gig. Now it isn't. They...
Yes, I agree. Most people who have been in Korea for more than a few years agree.
But this has nothing to do with our ascribed value.
How is it "drinking the apologist kool-aid" to acknowledge that there is very little reason for Korean employers to raise ESL wages in Korea, and that we, as NETs currently have very little power to change this?
It's unpleasant, but it's the reality we live in, at the moment. :undecided:
We have 3 choices:
- A: be content with (the steadily decreasing) the amount of money that you're earning
- B: find greener pastures
- C: be proactive about finding ways to increase your income.
I, personally, am all for chasing down C, but chacon son gout. :smiley:
-
Yes, I agree. Most people who have been in Korea for more than a few years agree.
But this has nothing to do with our ascribed value.
How is it "drinking the apologist kool-aid" to acknowledge that there is very little reason for Korean employers to raise ESL wages in Korea, and that we, as NETs currently have very little power to change this?
It's unpleasant, but it's the reality we live in, at the moment. :undecided:
We have 3 choices:
- A: be content with (the steadily decreasing) the amount of money that you're earning
- B: find greener pastures
- C: be proactive about finding ways to increase your income.
I, personally, am all for chasing down C, but chacon son gout. :smiley:
Yeah well, once corona is done these arrogant pricks are going to learn to eat their humble pie. Once things open up, people are going to vote with their feet and they won't be so cocky and ignorant anymore.
-
Yeah well, once corona is done these arrogant pricks are going to learn to eat their humble pie. Once things open up, people are going to vote with their feet and they won't be so cocky and ignorant anymore.
I look forward to you reporting back from China next year. Please let us know how it goes for you.
-
I look forward to you reporting back from China next year. Please let us know how it goes for you.
Please let us know how it goes one or two years later staying in Korea licking some employers low paying boots.
-
Please let us know how it goes one or two years later staying in Korea licking some employers low paying boots.
Would that be the boot you're licking right now? How's it taste?
-
I look forward to you reporting back from China next year. Please let us know how it goes for you.
Well maybe I will in 2023- I mean 2024! Things will open up back then and let me tell you we'll all be marching off with our heads held high and middle fingers aloft, pointing to the racist education offices, straight off to China or Vietnam where you can earn 4.0 million won, not like these kpop worshiping fools settling for 2.1m or less. People used to gaze in admiration and make round eye gestures in awe while scrambling to pay for my drinks and dinner when me and the other middling white guys in decline would show up after a long day of teaching ABC's let me tell you. Now starbucks employee's dont even add me on kakao for english lessons when I write my id on the receipt as I return my tray to them, and while I still get some long stares from the local ladies wishing I could take them out on a date unlike their Korean boyfriends who don't know how to treat a woman properly, not that 2.1m will get you very far these days for you new folks, I bet you wouldn't even be able to stretch that money to the third kimbap nara date. Now I still do OK with the ladies and I'm earning mid 3.1 to 3.5mil won, depending on if you count the renewal bonus and housing allowance but for all you newbies to Korea you really should check out the FB groups and see what other countries have to offer, Korea will regret it when everyone whos still earning less than 3mil depart for better salaries in countries that still know how to treat their English teachers properly. As for me, I still do alright as I said I earn the mid 3's so I don't need to rush off yet, though if they keep making racist policies targeting us they'll soon have only kpop fans who don't know how to teach or stand up for themselves and keep accepting lower wages. Anyway for you 5 or 6 Korea apologists out there I use to think like you but believe me if this bs keeps up Korea is going to get a slap in the face when all of you leave for China, then it will have to raise the wages and improve conditions for those who stay if they want to remain competitive. Maybe then they wont be so cocky anymore.
-
30000 rmb is 5,771,403.00 krw.
https://www.eslcafe.com/postajob-detail/high-paying-jobs-of-primarymiddlehigh-schools?koreasearch=&koreapageno=&koreapagesize=&chinasearch=&chinapageno=1&chinapagesize=60&internationalsearch=&internationalpageno=&internationalpagesi ze=
5,771, 403.00 KRW is definitely the kind of wage that a Native Teacher working in a POLY school or a full English Immersion Kindergarten/ Hakwon with 7 ~ 10 years of experience should be making!
Definitely, if someone has been here for 15 ~ 20 years, this is what their take-home salary should be!
-
Yes, I agree. Most people who have been in Korea for more than a few years agree.
But this has nothing to do with our ascribed value.
How is it "drinking the apologist kool-aid" to acknowledge that there is very little reason for Korean employers to raise ESL wages in Korea, and that we, as NETs currently have very little power to change this?
It's unpleasant, but it's the reality we live in, at the moment. :undecided:
We have 3 choices:
- A: be content with (the steadily decreasing) the amount of money that you're earning
- B: find greener pastures
- C: be proactive about finding ways to increase your income.
I, personally, am all for chasing down C, but chacon son gout. :smiley:
Agreed.
I left Korea 3 years ago. Went from 2.7m/mo working at a uni to 8.2M/mo working for the gov't. There are times when you should read the writing on the wall, prepare for a career change, and make it happen.
There is no excuse to staying in a dead-end profession if you realize it but just sit there and whinge about it.
-
Agreed.
I left Korea 3 years ago. Went from 2.7m/mo working at a uni to 8.2M/mo working for the gov't. There are times when you should read the writing on the wall, prepare for a career change, and make it happen.
There is no excuse to staying in a dead-end profession if you realize it but just sit there and whinge about it.
To be fair, you made that much in Korea because you chose to work 10-12? a week. So you shouldn't really compare it to a 40h/week job.
On your visa, you could've made twice that with a 25h/workload.
-
5,771, 403.00 KRW is definitely the kind of wage that a Native Teacher working in a POLY school or a full English Immersion Kindergarten/ Hakwon with 7 ~ 10 years of experience should be making!
Definitely, if someone has been here for 15 ~ 20 years, this is what their take-home salary should be!
There is no such thing as ''should be''! Based on what? I would much rather give that to a nurse than to someone with a degree in modern philosophy or some other useless degree that has nothing to do with teaching.
An Iphone ''should be'' no more than 500 bucks, a coffee at starbucks ''should be'' no more than 2 bucks. But it isn't how it works. Everything and everyone is worth exatly what the basic market principles set for them.
-
There is no such thing as ''should be''! Based on what? I would much rather give that to a nurse than to someone with a degree in modern philosophy or some other useless degree that has nothing to do with teaching.
An Iphone ''should be'' no more than 500 bucks, a coffee at starbucks ''should be'' no more than 2 bucks. But it isn't how it works. Everything and everyone is worth exatly what the basic market principles set for them.
Apologist nonsense. 10 plus years of experience does make you a better teacher and does warrant better pay. Everyone else except for the English teachers got a raise. So, the level of condescension and disrespect is real no matter what bs excuse you choose to tell yourself. If Korea doesn't smarten up, it wioll soon be time to leave. The only temporary thing Korea has going for it is that it's easier to get into during coronavirus. Once it's gone and borders are reopened, would you really choose to work for 2.1 or 5 million? I guess some will choose worse contracts with lower pay. That is their right. But anyone with any gumption or ambition would jump to where the money is. It may take a mass exodus for Korea to quit being arrogant and to get off their high horse. They use to pay better and roll out the welcome mat much more and they need to get back to that.
-
Apologist nonsense. 10 plus years of experience does make you a better teacher and does warrant better pay. Everyone else except for the English teachers got a raise. So, the level of condescension and disrespect is real no matter what bs excuse you choose to tell yourself. If Korea doesn't smarten up, it wioll soon be time to leave. The only temporary thing Korea has going for it is that it's easier to get into during coronavirus. Once it's gone and borders are reopened, would you really choose to work for 2.1 or 5 million? I guess some will choose worse contracts with lower pay. That is their right. But anyone with any gumption or ambition would jump to where the money is. It may take a mass exodus for Korea to quit being arrogant and to get off their high horse. They use to pay better and roll out the welcome mat much more and they need to get back to that.
What would you like Korea to do for you in terms of "rolling out the welcome mat"?
-
Apologist nonsense. 10 plus years of experience does make you a better teacher and does warrant better pay. Everyone else except for the English teachers got a raise. So, the level of condescension and disrespect is real no matter what bs excuse you choose to tell yourself. If Korea doesn't smarten up, it wioll soon be time to leave. The only temporary thing Korea has going for it is that it's easier to get into during coronavirus. Once it's gone and borders are reopened, would you really choose to work for 2.1 or 5 million? I guess some will choose worse contracts with lower pay. That is their right. But anyone with any gumption or ambition would jump to where the money is. It may take a mass exodus for Korea to quit being arrogant and to get off their high horse. They use to pay better and roll out the welcome mat much more and they need to get back to that.
Why was your post edited by a mod? Were you swearing again? There is no need for that. You seem to have so much anger and frustration.
How does understanding such basics as supply and demand make me an apologist?
I already chose to work for 5 million or more actually.
I agree though that something, or rather someone needs to smarten up.
-
There is no such thing as ''should be''! Based on what? I would much rather give that to a nurse than to someone with a degree in modern philosophy or some other useless degree that has nothing to do with teaching.
An Iphone ''should be'' no more than 500 bucks, a coffee at starbucks ''should be'' no more than 2 bucks. But it isn't how it works. Everything and everyone is worth exatly what the basic market principles set for them.
Well said.
-
I keep getting warnings every time I reply to illogicalness of folks comments on this. I am not sure why so many long termers are so apologetic and defensive about Korea no matter how bad it gets. It's a kind of irrational Stockholm Syndrome I can't get or understand. Anyways, in spite folks who make excuses and defend it non stop, this current state of affairs is inexcusable. The only thing Korea has going for it in the short term is that it is easier to get into, but once coronavirus is done, a mass exodus needs to happen to make Korea smarten up. Everyone else got their pay raised except for the English teachers which shows how much more respect they have for every other worker and how little respect they have for us. So, keep defending it. It's dumb to do so. But, you'll do it anyways.
-
Mod logs show that you've only received one warning this year.
That's a bit strange considering that you tend to use a fair bit of profanity and ad hominems, both of which are against this site's TOS.
The mods must like you. :smiley:
-
I keep getting warnings every time I reply to illogicalness of folks comments on this. I am not sure why so many long termers are so apologetic and defensive about Korea no matter how bad it gets. It's a kind of irrational Stockholm Syndrome I can't get or understand. Anyways, in spite folks who make excuses and defend it non stop, this current state of affairs is inexcusable. The only thing Korea has going for it in the short term is that it is easier to get into, but once coronavirus is done, a mass exodus needs to happen to make Korea smarten up. Everyone else got their pay raised except for the English teachers which shows how much more respect they have for every other worker and how little respect they have for us. So, keep defending it. It's dumb to do so. But, you'll do it anyways.
We get it, you want higher pay, and want to leave Korea. Don't need to harp on about how dumb we are. We know we're dumb, I'm pretty dumb myself.
-
To be fair, you made that much in Korea because you chose to work 10-12? a week. So you shouldn't really compare it to a 40h/week job.
On your visa, you could've made twice that with a 25h/workload.
I worked as much as I wanted to (which is next to none). No matter how much you make here, their reality is that you are still 'here' in Korea. Don't get me wrong though. I still have my home there, my F-5 visa is still active, and I have my own personal business affairs. But when I return to Canada, the air is clean, I *rarely* ever hear anyone clear their throat to spit, and do not experience the driving reality that I do in Korea.
Also, why would I want to work 25hrs? It is a miserable existence that will ultimately make you poor and nearly homeless in the future. In a few years I'll be near $130k/yr. A solid pension when I retire at nearly $65-68/yr when I retire (indexed to inflation) and I live in a proper society that will not bleed me dry when I get sick and have to go to the hospital. Also, the society here is FAR happier and more professional than what I experienced in Korea. Even my wife (who is still working for the ROK MOJ has realized this after being here for 3 months) understands this...
So sure.... I *could* make more...but I'm still making 2x more than what you suggested and living a much better quality of life.
-
^Cool.
-
I worked as much as I wanted to (which is next to none). No matter how much you make here, their reality is that you are still 'here' in Korea. Don't get me wrong though. I still have my home there, my F-5 visa is still active, and I have my own personal business affairs. But when I return to Canada, the air is clean, I *rarely* ever hear anyone clear their throat to spit, and do not experience the driving reality that I do in Korea.
Also, why would I want to work 25hrs? It is a miserable existence that will ultimately make you poor and nearly homeless in the future. In a few years I'll be near $130k/yr. A solid pension when I retire at nearly $65-68/yr when I retire (indexed to inflation) and I live in a proper society that will not bleed me dry when I get sick and have to go to the hospital. Also, the society here is FAR happier and more professional than what I experienced in Korea. Even my wife (who is still working for the ROK MOJ has realized this after being here for 3 months) understands this...
So sure.... I *could* make more...but I'm still making 2x more than what you suggested and living a much better quality of life.
Not sure why you need to bring up society's happiness and air pollution, when I just pointed out that you essentially compared a part-time workload and therefore pay, to a full-time one.
Also, 5.4 is not half of 8.2 but you must know it better.
Funny how one's perspective changes over time. When you lived in ''polluted'' Korea, you considered your ''castle in the sky, kia morning, 2.7million'' lifestyle the non plus ultra. Now it's all forgotten.
The same way, you think a 25h/week workload is ''miserable existence'', yet neither 10 hours nor 40 hours are considered as such by you, since you've done those. Interesting standards you've got there.
Btw. Ever imagined how much you would be making now if you started a career back home right after graduating, instead of hiding from your student loan payments in Korea for 2 decades? That would be something to brag about.
-
Not sure why you need to bring up society's happiness and air pollution, when I just pointed out that you essentially compared a part-time workload and therefore pay, to a full-time one.
Also, 5.4 is not half of 8.2 but you must know it better.
Funny how one's perspective changes over time. When you lived in ''polluted'' Korea, you considered your ''castle in the sky, kia morning, 2.7million'' lifestyle the non plus ultra. Now it's all forgotten.
The same way, you think a 25h/week workload is ''miserable existence'', yet neither 10 hours nor 40 hours are considered as such by you, since you've done those. Interesting standards you've got there.
Btw. Ever imagined how much you would be making now if you started a career back home right after graduating, instead of hiding from your student loan payments in Korea for 2 decades? That would be something to brag about.
You are correct. It is a 51.8% increase at my current paygrade. My pay increases by 300k/mo each year + inflation, so the percentage will increase over time.
I suspect you are not happy with the happiness and pollution aspect being introduced, because you know that it is a *very* strong negative factor that influences the quality of life in Korea. My 'castle' in Korea is an awesome place to live. The environment outside it when the air is bad is not. The surrounding grounds are decent as there is mostly green around me. Imagine being in a place where everyone was happy, the air was clean and people just enjoyed working and living during their daily lives. That is not something that is a normal experience in Korea. As for my lifestyle choices in Korea, I was very comfortable because I made my personal choices that way.
If I had stayed in Canada, I am sure I may be making more, but the cost of that would be that I would have never met my wife. That is one benefit that made my time in Korea worth it. As for my student loans, I have no student loans. I have no debt except for my Rav4. So I guess owning a home, having next to no debt and a very bright future IS something to brag about! :)
-
Imagine being in a place where everyone was happy, the air was clean and people just enjoyed working and living during their daily lives... a very bright future IS something to brag about! :)
Those shades your wearing for your bright future must be rose-tinted.
-
Mod logs show that you've only received one warning this year.
That's a bit strange considering that you tend to use a fair bit of profanity and ad hominems, both of which are against this site's TOS.
The mods must like you. :smiley:
While I appreciate that sentiment. I use very little profantity. Like no F bombs or b words. I may have used BS for short but everyone uses that nowadays. idiot is not a swear word last time I checked. (Which I did imply many of the new far left are nowadays. Crazy and illiberal they are. Extremists, etc are all things I have refereed to them as. Society has gone off the deep end. It's idiotic. If that's a swear word, it's news to me.)
-
Calling somebody an idiot would not be using profanity, no, but it would be an ad hominem, which are also frowned upon by the powers that be.
-
Calling somebody an idiot would not be using profanity, no, but it would be an ad hominem, which are also frowned upon by the powers that be.
I did use the phrase "arguing with idiots" which did not mention any specific member by name. More an indictment on a certain line of arguments.
-
Uh huh. (https://images.emojiterra.com/twitter/v13.1/512px/1f928.png)
My parents invariably grounded me when I got caught tearing up my siblings and used that line.
Let's just say that I was a very grounded individual. Extremely down to earth. Solid foundations. Deeeeeep roots.
:laugh:
-
Those shades your wearing for your bright future must be rose-tinted.
I don't need to have shades to see my future. I spent a bit of last week looking at homes to buy. What can we buy with a minimal to non-existent mortgage. If you're flexible about where you live, you can live quite well in large home with mobility if you're willing to drive (as needed) to a larger city. I found myself sleeping more. My wife is happy and has realized that the future has more fun than we anticipated. What is strange is that we could just keep our home in Korea and I would retire there with nearly double my uni salary in retirement (approx 55-65M/yr indexed to inflation). But what is the price? We are living in smog. Hospitals generally suck in quality of care regardless of how fast they serve you. The leisure culture is gone and people are generally not happy as they are chasing income. Endless Korean commercials about borrowing money and those horrific TV shows where they sit around cooking and next-to-retarded comedies.
No thanks. I would prefer to live on this side of the Pacific. Cleaner air, better quality of healthcare, clean food, no medical expenses, cheaper gas, larger vehicles, happier society in general, a more significant leisure culture.
Today my spouse got her DL and health card here in BC. She has her PR and can stay as long as she wishes. No restrictions while here. Why would I want her to give that up?
-
She has her PR and can stay as long as she wishes. No restrictions while here. Why would I want her to give that up?
As somebody who lived as a PR in Canada for a while, i just want to make sure that you and your wife realize that there are one or two pretty significant restrictions.
The first that comes immediately to mind is that she wont be able to vote, which isn't a huge deal, I guess.
The second and more important one is that you automatically lose your permanent residency if you spend more than 2 out of the last 5 years out of country. I had to quit my contract in Japan early so that I would retain my permanent residency. That letter I got in the post from the can gov was pretty scary!
You're probably already aware of this, but I thought it's important enough that it would be a good idea to make sure. :smiley:
-
No medical expenses :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/goldstein-the-real-cost-of-free-health-care-in-canada-report
-
No medical expenses :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/goldstein-the-real-cost-of-free-health-care-in-canada-report
Plus the service sucks and the shortages are quite extreme. Apparently the UK has some of these problems too. Both countries are 100% free when they really can't afford it. Most of the other "socialist" countries have more of a mixed system with government pay, private insurance, and user pay. Still multi payer, but with some regulations to keep costs reasonable (not free). I believe Korea is somewhat close to France on this model. These other countries don't have shortages. Service, I guess you can argue on, but better than Canada much of the time. (Well, maybe depending on which province you live in.)
-
A lot of interesting medical system rankings out there.
Amazingly, in one of the 2 most respected ranking systems, South Korea places at number 1. :shocked:
That same system puts Australia and the UK in the top 10, and the other English speaking countries further down (NZ=16, Can=23, US=30, SA=53, Ireland=80 etc).
Here's a cool site that shows how the countries are ranked according to the most popular ranking systems. Determining factors are described for each system of ranking:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-the-world
-
A lot of interesting medical system rankings out there.
Amazingly, in one of the 2 most respected ranking systems, South Korea places at number 1. :shocked:
That same system puts Australia and the UK in the top 10, and the other English speaking countries further down (NZ=16, Can=23, US=30, SA=53, Ireland=80 etc).
Here's a cool site that shows how the countries are ranked according to the most popular ranking systems. Determining factors are described for each system of ranking:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-the-world
I've never been to the UK. But some folks who lived in both Canada and the UK said the systems were similarly "backed up" though the UK may be slightly better than Canada. Some Koreans I know of or who know others said they had friends who married UKers. They lived in Britian and had surgery scheduled but the wait lists were insanely ridiculous. A Korean national married to a Brit, I mean. They opted to fly back to Korea and pay some money to get the surgery done in Seoul after waiting too long there. Rankings can be subjective.
I can tell you from experience and based on others that Korea is better than Canada. But some Canadians find the idea of paying even 5 dollars against their indoctrinated religion and will flip out. I remember getting an endoscopy and colonoscopy plus anesthetic for 200 thousand won. I went in on a Tuesday and had it done at a specialized hospital on a Saturday. In Canada you go to your doctor which can take 3 or 4 months to get in and then get referred to a specialist which takes 9 or 10 months more, then get scheduled for these procedures at the local hospital several months later. You also cannot opt to pay extra for anesthetic (that would be unequal). So, to save money you must be awake for this. Which is BS. I could never do that awake. Not down the throat anyways. A girl I know how to wait almost two years to get this done. I did mine within a week. Still she flipped out that I had to pay 200 bucks. I was told by US relatives 2 to 4 thousand dollars (which is a bit ridiculous and you know every middle man is getting their cut along the way). She did also complain about the wait times. But wouldn't pay a small fee to speed it up. Completely messed up many Canadians mindsets.
I sum up Korea as being cheap and fast. But like any place with private medicine in any form, do your research and get referrals. Not all services are equal or of the same quality or have the same competence. Very much a Dr. Nick scenario like you see on the old Simpsons clips.
-
The UK was no.1 (or top 3) for years up until about 3 years ago, which was 9 years after the conservative ruled government started gutting funding for public services (NHS included) and selling parts off to their donors, business partners and friends for pennies on the pound.
Sadly a sizeable hate-filled portion of our gullible at-large population voted for more of this gutting of public assets (amongst other things in the general election of 2019)…and here we are, now 12 going on 13 years of conservative rule, and all we have to show for it is self imposed sanctions, a buckling healthcare system, being on the brink of another recession, and a scandal filled government that would make most banana republics blush.
-
As somebody who lived as a PR in Canada for a while, i just want to make sure that you and your wife realize that there are one or two pretty significant restrictions.
The first that comes immediately to mind is that she wont be able to vote, which isn't a huge deal, I guess.
The second and more important one is that you automatically lose your permanent residency if you spend more than 2 out of the last 5 years out of country. I had to quit my contract in Japan early so that I would retain my permanent residency. That letter I got in the post from the can gov was pretty scary!
You're probably already aware of this, but I thought it's important enough that it would be a good idea to make sure. :smiley:
The bolded statement is absolutely incorrect. I don't know where you got your info, but you would have made better choices in life if you actually went to the source before making statements that destroy any credibility you claim of to have as an authority.
To maintain residency, my wife needs to have stayed in Canada for a total fo 730 days out of 5 years. Period.
The reference is here (from the gov't itself). https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=727&top=10
I knew this long before we applied. What you just spouted in your somewhat condescending tone was completely false. Your claim of losing it by being out of the country for 2 years is also completely false. Despite the fact she will return to Korea in a few years, she will have the time in Canada to keep her residency. The next 5 years will see her here permanently. Of course, we will travel to and from Korea when on holiday, but we are not concerned with this as time being spent with me outside the country is considered as time in Canada.
Please know your facts before you speak. It really damages your credibility.
-
No medical expenses :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/goldstein-the-real-cost-of-free-health-care-in-canada-report
In the 1 day since we got our health card, we have seen two cliniques. Received prescriptions for medications. Received a referral for bloodwork which will be done tomorrow and scheduled and ultrasound and PET scan. Did we pay out of pocket? No. How long did we wait? About 15 minutes.
-
destroy any credibility you claim of to have as an authority.
"an authority" on what? hes a moderator on waygook dot org for gods sake. relax
Please know your facts before you speak. It really damages your credibility.
nobody cares about their online "credibility" other than, well, the terminally online.
why are you taking it so personally anyways? maybe laws have changed since he got that letter, who knows. you seem pretty stressed about it either way
-
The bolded statement is absolutely incorrect. I don't know where you got your info, but you would have made better choices in life if you actually went to the source before making statements that destroy any credibility you claim of to have as an authority.
To maintain residency, my wife needs to have stayed in Canada for a total fo 730 days out of 5 years. Period.
The reference is here (from the gov't itself). https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=727&top=10
I knew this long before we applied. What you just spouted in your somewhat condescending tone was completely false. Your claim of losing it by being out of the country for 2 years is also completely false. Despite the fact she will return to Korea in a few years, she will have the time in Canada to keep her residency. The next 5 years will see her here permanently. Of course, we will travel to and from Korea when on holiday, but we are not concerned with this as time being spent with me outside the country is considered as time in Canada.
Please know your facts before you speak. It really damages your credibility.
Whoops, yes, flubbed that, apologies (it was a typo, if that helps -- I've posted before that I lived in Japan for nearly three years). :-[
What it should've read was: "you automatically lose your permanent residency if you spend more than 3 (not 2) out of the last 5 years out of country."
There was no condescension intended, honest: I wasn't aware of this particular rule until I received a notice in the mail and had to pretty much drop everything and go home. It caused me a *lot* of problems and wouldn't want you to experience the same. Glad you've done your research.
Also, I certainly don't intend to give the impression of being an authority on Canadian immigration law: I posted about my own personal experience, that's all. :undecided:
-
In the 1 day since we got our health card, we have seen two cliniques. Received prescriptions for medications. Received a referral for bloodwork which will be done tomorrow and scheduled and ultrasound and PET scan. Did we pay out of pocket? No. How long did we wait? About 15 minutes.
that makes sense since Clinique is the #1 prestige beauty brand in the U.S.
-
BURN!
Get some ointment on that asap at a clinic.
-
This is actually the best market there has ever been for a native teacher. There are not native teachers in this country. You can demand whatever salary you want!
Is that really true.?
Most schools aren't that bothered about paying for quarantine, its no big deal.
-
In the 1 day since we got our health card, we have seen two cliniques. Received prescriptions for medications. Received a referral for bloodwork which will be done tomorrow and scheduled and ultrasound and PET scan. Did we pay out of pocket? No. How long did we wait? About 15 minutes.
So you concluded that health care is free in Canada. Great!
I just made a phone call and didn't pay a single cent for it. Equally great!
What you just spouted in your somewhat condescending tone was completely false.
Funny that you come with this when your middle name is ''condescending''.
-
The UK was no.1 (or top 3) for years up until about 3 years ago, which was 9 years after the conservative ruled government started gutting funding for public services (NHS included) and selling parts off to their donors, business partners and friends for pennies on the pound.
Sadly a sizeable hate-filled portion of our gullible at-large population voted for more of this gutting of public assets (amongst other things in the general election of 2019)…and here we are, now 12 going on 13 years of conservative rule, and all we have to show for it is self imposed sanctions, a buckling healthcare system, being on the brink of another recession, and a scandal filled government that would make most banana republics blush.
I never lived in the UK, but heard from quite a few that they also had long waits and shortages like Canada. To my knowledge the UK and Canada are the only places that 100 % free health care. The other places that provide it are partially free and with cheap pay for the part you have to pay. They also still use private hospitals and private insurance as an add on. (Korea being one of them.)
One of my former co teachers had a friend married to a UK citizen. Her friend was waiting and waiting and waiting for a surgery in the UK. Long wait like Canada apparently. So, she had to throw in the towel and come back to Korea to get the surgery done. UK was too slow. My co teacher mentioned this to me as I told her about Canada's system with long waits and doctor shortages. There isn't enough money to pay for everything and no one wants to admit it. 100% free just isn't sustainable.
-
100% free just isn't sustainable.
What type of private health insurance do you have?
-
What type of private health insurance do you have?
I have the Korean government coverage. What do you have? Have you used the Canadian or UK insurance system? Have you had massive shortages? Korean health care is better.
-
I have the Korean government coverage. What do you have? Have you used the Canadian or UK insurance system? Have you had massive shortages? Korean health care is better.
You do realize the Korean system isn't 100% covered, and a lot of poorer Koreans do forego important surgeries because of it.
Anyways, my family's experience with the Canadian health system is above average. My father has had 2 heart attacks, one of them requiring double by-pass surgery. In both cases the experience was excellent. However, he also had to have some kind eye surgery, it lasted like 10 seconds. But he had to wait 16 months for it since he was retired, he wasn't put up in the queue. That I'd rate average, since it didn't cost anything out of pocket.
-
Since we're dealing in anecdotes, what I've heard about the NHS is that many are pleasantly surprised with the healthcare they receive since there's so much negative press.
And a guy I was cycling with this Sunday was asking a friend in a Mayo Clinic MS team jersey how he could get an appointment there. He was new to the area and when he called for an appointment, they said they weren't taking any new patients.
-
I remember saying in science class that the time to digest food (transitive time) can be about 36 hours because I have gone through corn in that time - having not consumed it for months before, and the identity of the corn being beyond reproach. (I said it more bluntly than that.) ... And a girl in the class insisted THAT IS NOT TRUE! because of a "fact" a teacher had told her before about a significantly longer transit time. She insisted. So, I was lying? My experience was entirely dismissed.
In the academic discipline of history - as well as the philosophy of science - there is research on the denial of exceptions, on the rejection of what doesn't fit the narrative, until a new theory takes hold (e.g., Kuhn's revolutions).
Groupthink at every level.
-
Deleted some off topic arguments, sent out some warnings.
Remember: post not poster bla bla bla.
-
if you arent a fan of the current teaching market... i know Uleung-do pays more because of its horrible location. Its just a short fairy to get to pohang. and for locals of Uleung-do its only like 5,000 won i think.
-
Since we're dealing in anecdotes, what I've heard about the NHS is that many are pleasantly surprised with the healthcare they receive since there's so much negative press.
And a guy I was cycling with this Sunday was asking a friend in a Mayo Clinic MS team jersey how he could get an appointment there. He was new to the area and when he called for an appointment, they said they weren't taking any new patients.
I heard Obamacare ruined health care in the US. Made more waiting lists doctor shortages drove up costs etc.
US should give some small cash to the States and let them set up their own partial health care system something like Korea. Still private with some public care, but rein in prices and everyone getting their "cut" along the way. Don't look to Canada or the UK as your model.
-
if you arent a fan of the current teaching market... i know Uleung-do pays more because of its horrible location. Its just a short fairy to get to pohang. and for locals of Uleung-do its only like 5,000 won i think.
Depends on how much more. Like total pay package over 4 million won a month? I may apply there next year if that's the case. About what I made several years ago with inflation factored in with 2022 money.
-
Depends on how much more. Like total pay package over 4 million won a month? I may apply there next year if that's the case. About what I made several years ago with inflation factored in with 2022 money.
I think it's an extra 500k salary, and a 500k housing allowance (instead of 400k). However, being a Gyeongbuk EPIK position, I think you would start at a lower tier of the EPIK payscale (2+?) if you transferred in from a different province. They also prefer couples to apply (though I believe you can apply with just a friend as well). I don't think they accept lone applicants. I may be wrong on a couple of details however.
edit: I think the salary is 700k extra, plus base EPIK and travel allowance.
-
I think it's an extra 500k salary, and a 500k housing allowance (instead of 400k). However, being a Gyeongbuk EPIK position, I think you would start at a lower tier of the EPIK payscale (2+?) if you transferred in from a different province. They also prefer couples to apply (though I believe you can apply with just a friend as well). I don't think they accept lone applicants. I may be wrong on a couple of details however.
edit: I think the salary is 700k extra, plus base EPIK and travel allowance.
No, they'd have to hire me as a level 1 and help me get a nice place or renovate or build a decent place on the island or no dice.
-
or build a decent place on the island
You want them to BUILD you a place to stay? hahahahahaha
-
No, they'd have to hire me as a level 1 and help me get a nice place or renovate or build a decent place on the island or no dice.
There are decent places to stay there. My friend is close with one of the 2 currently working there, I'm not sure if they'll be renewing or not. If you got the 1+ pay scale it would be above 4mil salary. That ferry is often cancelled however, so you better get used to weekend trips to the mainland being spoiled.
-
No, they'd have to hire me as a level 1 and help me get a nice place or renovate or build a decent place on the island or no dice.
I think that's a reasonable expectation. I may apply. I've been too long in the suburbs of Seoul. Does Ulleong-do have a Kim Bab Nara and a decent gym? I think I'll choose the "build me a new gym" option. I don't need them to make me a new house. A newish one bedroom with a/c and a decent shower will do me fine. Yeah, that is a good idea. I think I will take that job.
-
There are decent places to stay there. My friend is close with one of the 2 currently working there, I'm not sure if they'll be renewing or not. If you got the 1+ pay scale it would be above 4mil salary. That ferry is often cancelled however, so you better get used to weekend trips to the mainland being spoiled.
From what I've heard almost 50% of the days the ferry is cancelled.
-
I think that's a reasonable expectation. I may apply. I've been too long in the suburbs of Seoul. Does Ulleong-do have a Kim Bab Nara and a decent gym? I think I'll choose the "build me a new gym" option. I don't need them to make me a new house. A newish one bedroom with a/c and a decent shower will do me fine. Yeah, that is a good idea. I think I will take that job.
If you are stuck on an island a small one you will want some personal space inside especially times of the year when the weather lousy. A tiny cramped space and no where to go outside will really grate on you fast. Spring and fall like now when the weather is nice makes it worth it for sure to be there. Helpful if some schools are lenient too.
-
From what I've heard almost 50% of the days the ferry is cancelled.
I read that 75% of the time, 50% of the ferries are cancelled.
-
From what I've heard almost 50% of the days the ferry is cancelled.
3N/4D turned into 5N/6D last time I went.
I love that island but there's only so much to do.
Also, 1/2 night was airbnb at the NW tip of the island, 60 a night
3rd night was in town, 60 a pop. Once we learned of the cancellation we rebooked quick and it was still available.
The fifth night? "Hey, can we stay again, we got denied a ferry." Sorry, it was already booked.
We ran to the hotel in town. The nice one. We said F it, we can't really be picky, EVERYONE who needs to leave today can't.
We get there. One night? 175 000. It was nicer than the first two places but who really cares? The room is bigger? So what? It's where you sleep.
I am, and always will be, of the mind that the hotel should be clean and safe. I don't give a shit about anything else, especially not for 60 vs 175.
-
3N/4D turned into 5N/6D last time I went.
I love that island but there's only so much to do.
Also, 1/2 night was airbnb at the NW tip of the island, 60 a night
3rd night was in town, 60 a pop. Once we learned of the cancellation we rebooked quick and it was still available.
The fifth night? "Hey, can we stay again, we got denied a ferry." Sorry, it was already booked.
We ran to the hotel in town. The nice one. We said F it, we can't really be picky, EVERYONE who needs to leave today can't.
We get there. One night? 175 000. It was nicer than the first two places but who really cares? The room is bigger? So what? It's where you sleep.
I am, and always will be, of the mind that the hotel should be clean and safe. I don't give a shit about anything else, especially not for 60 vs 175.
ForeverParadise has a sock?
-
3N/4D turned into 5N/6D last time I went.
I love that island but there's only so much
to do. Also, 1/2 night was airbnb at the N
W tip of the island, 60 a night 3rd night w
as in town, 60 a pop. Once we learned of
the cancellation we rebooked quick and
it was still available. The fifth night? "Hey
, can we stay again, we got denied a ferry
." Sorry, it was already booked. We ran to
the hotel in town. The nice one. We said F
it, we can't really be picky, EVERYONE wh
o needs to leave today can't. We get there.
One night? 175 000. It was nicer than the
first two places but who really cares? The
room is bigger? So what? It's where you
sleep. I am, and always will be, of the mi
nd that the hotel should be clean and saf
e. I don't give a shit about anything else,
especially not for 60
vs
175.
-
The woman at Compose Coffee was kind of cute.
http://naver.me/FYuBRhW6
-
The woman at Compose Coffee was kind of cute.
http://naver.me/FYuBRhW6
Too bad she wasn't smilin' at you.
-
Too bad she wasn't smilin' at you.
I was with my supermodel girlfriend so it didn't really matter. Also, I don't sleep around cuz I'm a good boy.
-
I was with my supermodel girlfriend so it didn't really matter. Also, I don't sleep around cuz I'm a good boy.
Good for you, though I didn't say have no action. If you want to marry a chick who's been with 100 guys before you and you don't mind being another cog in the wheel, go for it. Your lack of self respect in that situation would be none of my concern. A supermodel ain't going to be any English teachers boyfriend, maybe 20 years ago, when the salary was high compared to locals. (Unless you are really nice looking yourself, a few chicks will bend, though not all in most cases.)
-
I first arrived in Korea the summer of 1950 and stayed for three years. The market was slightly worse in those days, but not by much.
-
I first arrived in Korea the summer of 1950 and stayed for three years. The market was slightly worse in those days, but not by much.
Must have been a real battle.
-
Must have been a real battle.
A True-man could handle it.
-
Good for you, though I didn't say have no action. If you want to marry a chick who's been with 100 guys before you and you don't mind being another cog in the wheel, go for it. Your lack of self respect in that situation would be none of my concern. A supermodel ain't going to be any English teachers boyfriend, maybe 20 years ago, when the salary was high compared to locals. (Unless you are really nice looking yourself, a few chicks will bend, though not all in most cases.)
I get the feeling that you and Van take a lot of things seriously that are just meant tongue in cheek. I may be wrong, though.
-
I get the feeling that you and Van take a lot of things seriously that are just meant tongue in cheek. I may be wrong, though.
It's a reading comprehension problem
-
Everyone misses subtle things occassionally (me today), but most people get when someone is joking, telling porkies, being hyperbolic, or a smart ass.
It's society's largest threat. Maybe second only to a new virus or a nuclear war.