Waygook.org

All about South Korea => Life in Korea => Topic started by: Sagi Keun on December 31, 2021, 02:51:18 pm

Title: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Sagi Keun on December 31, 2021, 02:51:18 pm
It goes in phases.

Of course in the beginning I went through shock for days and weeks, I didn't know how to operate here at all and wondered if I'd made a mistake.

Then I went through a honeymoon period for some months in which nothing bothered me, everything was fascinating.

By year 2 I started to leave behind Itaewon, bars and socializing exclusively with other foreigners. I started to find my niche with pursuits and activities that provided long term interest to me in the country. But I was still mostly uncomfortable around Koreans.

Then the angry phase lasted several years, in which I was usually annoyed by Korean behaviour. The  stares, every little cultural difference and microagression got under my skin. I could not stand the apparent racism and rudeness.

Gradually I started to have more Korean friends than foreigners. Started to feel more  at home.

Now, years later, I feel much more settled and enjoy being here a lot. I like Koreans, I have a general appreciation for their old fashioned politeness and adaptability. I think the younger generation shows great promise, they are a versatile people and I can see a whole lot of ways in which Korea is better than the west.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: hangook77 on December 31, 2021, 03:08:13 pm
If Korea hadn't of changed so quickly over the past decade or so i'd be able top properly answer this question. 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: VanIslander on December 31, 2021, 06:47:07 pm
My attitude toward Koreans?

STAGE 1: At first I was bemused by how different they were here. I found it so interesting and had countless questions. What was blared so forcefully at 8am from speakers of a moving truck? Oh, oranges for sale! Not Kim Jung-il attacking. Then I saw the pick-up truck full with a mixed-up pile of unsheathed knives for sale and wondered if the law allowed it or if the cops sleeping in their squad car midday simply hadn't noticed. Etc. Lots of surprises like being Alice in Wonderland.

STAGE 2: I was impressed at how locals work a lot and wasted little time traveling around, how respectful they were to elders in general and their families in particular, how well they dressed compared to back home, how much of a variety of dishes and side dishes were on the menu.

STAGE 3: I got tired of how Koreans kept asking me the same questions and having the same reactions to my answers, how every driver accelerated up to a red light, applying the brakes at the last second, freaking me out as a pedestrian (later, when driving I noticed they also crept at the start of a green light). I started to feel like the whole country was like one small village.

STAGE 4: I moved to Jeju for seven years and I appreciated how Koreans acted in groups when traveling, how they invested in infrastructure and businesses, how politically active and varied were their opinions on the government, how they made me feel safe and how the worst behavior I faced was the occasional standoffishness.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 31, 2021, 07:04:49 pm
I went through the phases all back home before moving here.

People do the same shit around the developed or semi-developed world- Wake up groggy, go do some work that they hate, finish, deal with some asshole in traffic, come home and watch something on TV, then hopefully do something halfway fun on the weekends, at the same time they're trying to do the best for their kids and families while putting up with their boss and the idiots in charge of their country.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: catbird on December 31, 2021, 07:57:21 pm
I enjoy my job more and more each day and, being from Miami, I'm loving this cold weather which is a novelty for me and also my wife.  Local incels that are hostile to foreigners instead of using self-improvement methods to attract women have been the only downside.  I've noticed a few in forums too, but not on this one fortunately.

Oh, the heated floor.  I LOVE that! 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Sagi Keun on January 01, 2022, 03:56:28 pm
how every driver accelerated up to a red light, applying the brakes at the last second, freaking me out as a pedestrian (later, when driving I noticed they also crept at the start of a green light). 

Yeah that gets frustrating, they accelerate to a stop. I'm like "where you gonna go?". And then once you start walking at the green light, they lurch the car forward or bunny hop at you while you are crossing in front of them. Is it subconscious with them or what is going through their minds when they do this?

then you have the passive drivers that crawl around at snail pace, waiting for you to make the first move. However you never know what they are going to do, so its safer to just wait for them to go first.

Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: krystallos on January 02, 2022, 08:02:07 am
My opinion of living abroad has been to explore,  have fun, excitement, and try something new to find what it is you really want in life and then going for it, typically back in one's own country, so the first time I went abroad, everything was amazing! I saw a lot of things, met some really cool people, hosted parties, went to parties, went to festivals, ran into some dangerous situations in the jungle or at airports, drank, smoked, ate delicious food, saw amazing ruins, starry nights, sunsets, and it was great. Got my house too abroad. All was right in the world.

Will always remember it and love the fact that I even got a house out of it all, which will (hopefully) be kept in my family for many generations.

Now on my second time abroad, I'm more aware of my own station and lot in life and can now go back to my country.

I had to be aware of:

I'm not rich but I'm not poor.
I can set my sights on anything if I want to but I'm not the entreprenuerial type.
I don't like to think outside of the box to communicate a simple or complex request.
I love the simple, easy to get and easy to maintain things in life.
I'm tolerant of everyone even those whose opinions or place in life is different than mine.


It was a doozy learning that I'm not meant to be abroad. I'm meant to be home with my own, eating my local food drinking my local beer talking to my old friends. Going to my family's church, paying my respects to my decased loved ones, going to my family reunions, sitting on my family's couch watching my nieces, watching TV I can listen to without subtitles or being offended by an ingorant misinterpretation of my culture, getting healthcare that is quick and isn't riddled with differing procedures, treatment, dosage, and language barriers, you know the common things one does in one's own country and not in the a better than most but still second class residency here  but in general anywhere outside of your own country) dealing with problems and navigating life based off of that fact making a puny salary (actually LESS than back home including the taxes being taken out).

So living abroad again has taught me through consistent experience that I'm not meant to live abroad. I'm meant to be home.

Whenever international travel opens back up, I'll visit around and see things, but life abroad including this country isn't suitable for me. The native people who live here are not related to me in culture. Lovely people but I just can't relate outside of work related topics to them anymore.

I tolerate them and by tolerating them I can live here (and anywhere) but that is where it stops.

Not just here, everywhere that isn't where I'm from or has a direct relation to where I'm from like Canada, the UK, or Australia.

That's what's changed. I had my fun, grew up, drunk the expat kool-aid and believed that learning the language and adopting local social   norms would give me entrance into being  a citizen in Spain, found that was a lie and then corrected course to the stance of that belief not being true anywhere but most importantly, here, tried rebuilding a large nest egg  on a puny salary during a period of high inflation and lack of free movement, snapped out of that, came to my senses and now going home with a new career in education in tow. Hopefully flying back in business or first class.

 ;D
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: alfredogaonagaytan on January 27, 2022, 04:54:07 am
It took me a while to adjust. I went through the culture shock phases. When my year was up, i was ready to leave. But once home I got bored and realized how much I adapted and love Korea. I went back for another two years but with a different mindset. I thought "this is my home" as opposed to "this is where I am for x amount of time". That change in perspective really did a lot for me. I tried to, and succeeded, in loving the food. I made more Korean friends. I hung out with more long-term expats/koreans who grounded me more to the daily of life in Korea. Now, I visit every other year. I miss my friends there.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Kyndo on January 28, 2022, 09:09:31 am
Having moved around a fair bit internationally as a child, I've always been a bit of a tourist.
Moving to Korea really just felt like an extension of that so there was not real culture shock.
Also, having no real expectations other than there'll be new things to see and do made my introduction to Korea pretty much just sparkles and sunshine.

I've now lived in Korea longer than I've lived in any other place, and I've enjoyed seeing my little town here grow and change into a genuinely pleasant place to be (despite it still being a little town).

Most of the negative vibes I've picked up have actually been secondhand from various facebook groups. After blocking the worst of them, I've found that my outlook on Korea has improved immensely. For a while wayg had a fair bit of negativity on it as well, although the worst of it seems to have run its course for the most part.

Having a varied social circle consisting mostly of people who are fairly content with lives at the moment really makes it easier to enjoy one's own life.

 :smiley:
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: zola on February 04, 2022, 04:41:35 pm
I left Korea almost exactly 2 years ago. I was there for 7 years. I was already a pretty seasoned "expat" when i first moved there, having lived and worked around the world in various places.

My first impressions of Korea were so crushingly negative that it was kind of hard to come back from. It was the depths of winter and everything was just grey and dead. Then i had few experiences with rude people that further tainted my first impressions. In hindsight, i really wish i had just tried to roll with it for those first few weeks, instead of being like "this is shit. Japan was so much better". Because it did get better, but it was like i had made that first negative impression the default basis of which i was viewing everything after that.

Subsequently I went through stages, waxing and waning of being content or wanting to leave. Getting pissed off at everything or learning to accept what it was. In retrospect, as with most things in life, most of those feelings were more connected to what was going on in my personal life, as opposed to what Korea was doing.

My job was always awesome, but after 16 years of teaching around the world, i was just done with being a teacher. The last 2 years were the best, i felt a lot more comfortable, i understood the language a lot more, i could appreciate the positives of life in Korea. But **** me, teaching those final 2 years was a grind.

I felt sad to leave, but it was definitely the right decision to go. I remember my last day of work having this overwhelming...mix of sadness and gratitude.

2 years away, i can say i am so glad i decided to quit teaching. I am grateful i had the experience of living in Korea. Korean people for the most part were cool (A bit iffy on the dudes between 45-65 tbh). The country runs efficiently and shit gets done. I appreciate the food a lot more, now that i dont have to eat it everyday. The air pollution fuckin sucked.
Overall, i wouldn't say i miss Korea, but I'm glad i got to live there.

Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Sagi Keun on February 06, 2022, 03:41:26 pm
My first impressions of Korea were so crushingly negative .. Then i had few experiences with rude people that further tainted my first impressions.

Things have improved a lot since the early 2000's.

I mean, back then the xenephobia was on steroids, you had to put up with being stared down practically everywhere you went. Taking your gf on a date was like a military operation because of all the adverse reactions you would get. It was hostile in a way that newbies coming here now will never understand. But it is much improved now- certainly in Seoul-, largely I think due to the younger generation coming through. The Park Chung Hee generation and the attitudes that went with it is waning.


Quote
My job was always awesome,

Thing is, teaching itself was always great. The students are fun, the whole performance is fun. The problem though has always been whether you got stuck with an abusive supervisor or boss is all.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: VanIslander on February 06, 2022, 04:09:22 pm
Things have improved a lot since the early 2000's.

I mean, back then the xenephobia was on steroids, you had to put up with being stared down practically everywhere you went....
Maybe in Seoul, but in 2002, Geoje was "waygook" friendly (no one misdescribed me as a "migook" like they still do in the capital city)
 A lot of guys from Spain, Norway, Nigeria and Netherlands were in town, mostly engineers and managers (Geoje is officially the #1 city in the world in shipbuilding with billion dollar companies Samsung & Daewoo (DSME) on the north and east coasts of the bridged - and now tunneled to Busan - island), so my Canadian hagwon *** fit right in.

Shopping, dining, nightlife... was never once, not once negative. Three glorious years late 2002 to spring 2006 (left only because public schools took many hagwon teachers so i snagged a 2.6 mill monday to thursday gig, 4pm to 8pm, in Hadong and lasted three years before Jeju called me for over a decade).

When i went shopping in Masan on the mainland, EVERYTHING was different: kids pointing, people spitting, looking away, ignoring me when i ask a question, annoyed expressions... it was like being dropped into another country.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Sagi Keun on February 06, 2022, 05:19:14 pm
When i went shopping in Masan on the mainland, EVERYTHING was different: kids pointing, people spitting, looking away, ignoring me when i ask a question, annoyed expressions... it was like being dropped into another country.

How long ago was that? Yeah the mainland outside of Seoul can still be very awkward.

I noticed the same xenephobic reactions in Busan last time I was there (2 years ago).  People stopping dead in conversation as I walked in the room, staring and whispering "waygook saram!!" etc. It was like stepping back in time.

This is simply not a problem in seoul anymore though.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: AshCha on February 08, 2022, 12:40:59 pm
How long ago was that? Yeah the mainland outside of Seoul can still be very awkward.

I noticed the same xenephobic reactions in Busan last time I was there (2 years ago).  People stopping dead in conversation as I walked in the room, staring and whispering "waygook saram!!" etc. It was like stepping back in time.

This is simply not a problem in seoul anymore though.

hahah try moving to rural 경북!
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Kyndo on February 08, 2022, 12:42:52 pm
Rural 경북 is where it's at!
I guess I've been here long enough that people just don't notice/care anymore.  :sad:
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: KimchiNinja on April 20, 2022, 06:01:26 am
Itís gone in phases, and a transformation, after a decade Iím different person.

I thank Korea for giving me back my humanity.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: SPQR on April 20, 2022, 06:54:59 am
I used to love living in Korea. The nightlife, the pay, the girls, the
proximity to S.E. Asian destinations. It was great. Then I started
noticing old people here. It made me shudder and still does.

Aside from the endemic and appalling poverty of old people in
Korea, there is just the fact that Korea sucks for retirement. Imagine
when your older, waking up to a -15C winter. WTF are you going to
do?

I have my sights set on Thailand.  My wife says, how can we do that?
Well, Thailand is MUCH cheaper than Korea. So financially it will be easy.
Wake up, have coffee and fresh mangoes. Go for a swim in the ocean.
Go for walks. Cheap Thai food. Kick the feet up on a bungalow balcony.

F@*( Korea.

PS: Don't get me wrong. Korea has been good to me. But it is no country
for old men.

That is how my attitude has changed.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: AshCha on April 20, 2022, 09:01:43 am
I used to love living in Korea. The nightlife, the pay, the girls, the
proximity to S.E. Asian destinations. It was great. Then I started
noticing old people here. It made me shudder and still does.

Aside from the endemic and appalling poverty of old people in
Korea, there is just the fact that Korea sucks for retirement. Imagine
when your older, waking up to a -15C winter. WTF are you going to
do?

I have my sights set on Thailand.  My wife says, how can we do that?
Well, Thailand is MUCH cheaper than Korea. So financially it will be easy.
Wake up, have coffee and fresh mangoes. Go for a swim in the ocean.
Go for walks. Cheap Thai food. Kick the feet up on a bungalow balcony.

F@*( Korea.

PS: Don't get me wrong. Korea has been good to me. But it is no country
for old men.

That is how my attitude has changed.

Korea is ruled by the old lol.

Thailand is probably a good place to go for retirement if they'll let you. But cheap af tends to mean low pay as well. I've never seen a teaching job in Thailand that paid anywhere near £1000. Korea strikes a good balance.

Plus I can't fathom the language. I doubt you can learn to read Thai in twenty minutes like you can with Hangeul lol.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: SPQR on April 20, 2022, 09:34:48 am
Korea is ruled by the old lol.

Thailand is probably a good place to go for retirement if they'll let you. But cheap af tends to mean low pay as well. I've never seen a teaching job in Thailand that paid anywhere near £1000. Korea strikes a good balance.

Plus I can't fathom the language. I doubt you can learn to read Thai in twenty minutes like you can with Hangeul lol.

It is pretty obvious Korea is governed by old men. Problems that
never get solved and the lack of political will are symptomatic of
this type of rule.

Thailand is very welcoming for retirees. They have many visa plans
for the over 55. I'm thinking of the 90-day visa to escape the wonderful
Korean winter.

Korea has so many problems that even Koreans aren't making Koreans
anymore.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on April 20, 2022, 09:44:44 am
It is pretty obvious Korea is governed by old men. Problems that
never get solved and the lack of political will are symptomatic of
this type of rule.
Yeah, clear lack of development from 1950 to 2022.

But hey, nothing says progress like Thailand.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: KimchiNinja on April 20, 2022, 10:15:17 am
It is pretty obvious Korea is governed by old men.

East Asia respect elders (they know more than young people).

In America, where they worship youth and look down on elders, society is collapsing. Anyhow, we wonít miss you when you go. You can take all your hatred for this country and simply get out of this country! Easy!! Itís good for everyone.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: pkjh on April 20, 2022, 12:08:02 pm
Yeah, clear lack of development from 1950 to 2022.

But hey, nothing says progress like Thailand.
You been to Thailand?
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Liechtenstein on April 20, 2022, 12:42:27 pm
I used to love living in Korea. The nightlife, the pay, the girls, the
proximity to S.E. Asian destinations. It was great. Then I started
noticing old people here. It made me shudder and still does.

Aside from the endemic and appalling poverty of old people in
Korea, there is just the fact that Korea sucks for retirement. Imagine
when your older, waking up to a -15C winter. WTF are you going to
do?

I have my sights set on Thailand.  My wife says, how can we do that?
Well, Thailand is MUCH cheaper than Korea. So financially it will be easy.
Wake up, have coffee and fresh mangoes. Go for a swim in the ocean.
Go for walks. Cheap Thai food. Kick the feet up on a bungalow balcony.

F@*( Korea.

PS: Don't get me wrong. Korea has been good to me. But it is no country
for old men.

That is how my attitude has changed.

Thailand is much cheaper than Korea and there is an abundance of fresh fruit and veggies all year round. However, the Thais aren't the most welcoming people. But if you're going with your wife you won't be one of those guys trying to steal a Thai woman. Honestly, I have lived in SE Asia for a long time. I would choose another country over Thailand. The south of Vietnam is very nice.

Having said that, learning to speak enough Thai to get around is quite easy and the least effort is always met with exuberant praise, something I never experienced in Korea. Chang Mai is gorgeous with great weather and a large ex-pat community. No beaches though.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: SPQR on April 20, 2022, 01:12:42 pm
You been to Thailand?

Haha, obviously not.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: SPQR on April 20, 2022, 01:19:57 pm
Thailand is much cheaper than Korea and there is an abundance of fresh fruit and veggies all year round. However, the Thais aren't the most welcoming people. But if you're going with your wife you won't be one of those guys trying to steal a Thai woman. Honestly, I have lived in SE Asia for a long time. I would choose another country over Thailand. The south of Vietnam is very nice.

Having said that, learning to speak enough Thai to get around is quite easy and the least effort is always met with exuberant praise, something I never experienced in Korea. Chang Mai is gorgeous with great weather and a large ex-pat community. No beaches though.

I have friends on Koh Samui. They have been there for years. I have no interest
in acquiring a Thai woman. One Korean woman is enough to last me a lifetime.
I have been to Chang Mai many times. Great place, but I would miss the ocean.
One of my Koh Samui friends worked for the UN for years. Banked all of his cash
tax free. Now he is full time on the island. He pays about USD400 a month for
a bungalow about 200m back from the beach in the jungle. His neighbors are
Thai. He says they're great. Like I said, Korea has been good to me but I have
worked hard here and received nothing for free. I just don't see it being a good
place for retirement.


Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: 745sticky on April 20, 2022, 01:27:37 pm
But hey, nothing says progress like Thailand.

i know this was supposed to be an epic haha gotcha moment or w.e but afaik thailand had been progressing pretty well (before the pandemic ofc)
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on April 20, 2022, 01:36:37 pm
i know this was supposed to be an epic haha gotcha moment or w.e but afaik thailand had been progressing pretty well (before the pandemic ofc)
Sure, but considering where it was at 1950 and where it is now vs. Korea, well, there is a marked gap in results. If indeed what he claimed was true, then Korea should be as it were and Thailand should be light-years ahead. That isn't the case.

Whether one has been to Thailand or not does not change the significant gap in development and change that has taken place. Unless one is seriously trying to put Thailand on par with where Korea is now and asserting that in Korea, in fact, nothing changes as is evidenced by the past 70 years.

No one out there in serious academic/professional circles is claiming that Korea hasn't changed significantly since 1950. Only a few disgruntled waygooks who seem to associate "development" with "fun for me."
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: SPQR on April 20, 2022, 01:40:20 pm
Sure, but considering where it was at 1950 and where it is now vs. Korea, well, there is a marked gap in results. If indeed what he claimed was true, then Korea should be as it were and Thailand should be light-years ahead. That isn't the case.

Whether one has been to Thailand or not does not change the significant gap in development and change that has taken place. Unless one is seriously trying to put Thailand on par with where Korea is now and asserting that in Korea, in fact, nothing changes as is evidenced by the past 70 years.

No one out there in serious academic/professional circles is claiming that Korea hasn't changed significantly since 1950. Only a few disgruntled waygooks who seem to associate "development" with "fun for me."

You been to Thailand?

Why don't you answer the question?

Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: pkjh on April 20, 2022, 02:18:49 pm
Sure, but considering where it was at 1950 and where it is now vs. Korea, well, there is a marked gap in results. If indeed what he claimed was true, then Korea should be as it were and Thailand should be light-years ahead. That isn't the case.

Whether one has been to Thailand or not does not change the significant gap in development and change that has taken place. Unless one is seriously trying to put Thailand on par with where Korea is now and asserting that in Korea, in fact, nothing changes as is evidenced by the past 70 years.

No one out there in serious academic/professional circles is claiming that Korea hasn't changed significantly since 1950. Only a few disgruntled waygooks who seem to associate "development" with "fun for me."
I assume you haven't. You probably imagine it as some dirt-poor places like Myanmar, rural China, or sub-Saharan Africa. But it isn't that bad. Probably comparable to S Korea in the 1980s. Sure it hasn't kept pace to SK's economic trajectory, but not many places have.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: 745sticky on April 20, 2022, 03:04:46 pm
If indeed what he claimed was true, then Korea should be as it were and Thailand should be light-years ahead. That isn't the case.

what claim? that korea is "obviously ruled by old men" or whatever? how does that claim relate to thailand and the retirement prospects there?


Whether one has been to Thailand or not does not change the significant gap in development and change that has taken place. Unless one is seriously trying to put Thailand on par with where Korea is now and asserting that in Korea, in fact, nothing changes as is evidenced by the past 70 years.

nobody said that.


No one out there in serious academic/professional circles is claiming that Korea hasn't changed significantly since 1950. Only a few disgruntled waygooks who seem to associate "development" with "fun for me."

nobody said that either.

in any case, thailand being less developed doesn't necessarily make it worse as a retirement destination, especially if youre an expat with a bit of money.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on April 20, 2022, 03:35:12 pm
what claim? that korea is "obviously ruled by old men" or whatever? how does that claim relate to thailand and the retirement prospects there?

Quote
It is pretty obvious Korea is governed by old men. Problems that
never get solved and the lack of political will are symptomatic of
this type of rule.
As far as retirement prospects, plenty of countries have good prospects where the bulk of the population is NOT enjoying a standard of living that the average expat on savings would enjoy. I don't think that's really reflective of the development and governance of the country, unless you think "governance of the country" is based on the life it provides for expats, which frankly some expats seem to view it as.

That's the fact that he seems to compare retirement benefits as a Korean in Korea vs. retirement benefits as an expat in Thailand, which is odd considering that if he was making a comment on society and development it should be retirement in Korea as a Korean vs. retirement in Thailand as an average Thai. But hey, that kind of apples to apples comparison might be a bit of a downer when it comes to his tropical paradise.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: SPQR on April 20, 2022, 03:54:18 pm
As far as retirement prospects, plenty of countries have good prospects where the bulk of the population is NOT enjoying a standard of living that the average expat on savings would enjoy. I don't think that's really reflective of the development and governance of the country, unless you think "governance of the country" is based on the life it provides for expats, which frankly some expats seem to view it as.

That's the fact that he seems to compare retirement benefits as a Korean in Korea vs. retirement benefits as an expat in Thailand, which is odd considering that if he was making a comment on society and development it should be retirement in Korea as a Korean vs. retirement in Thailand as an average Thai. But hey, that kind of apples to apples comparison might be a bit of a downer when it comes to his tropical paradise.

What are you talking about now? Stop randomly mashing the keys. I've warned you about that before.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on April 20, 2022, 06:16:58 pm
What are you talking about now? Stop randomly mashing the keys. I've warned you about that before.

Might understand if you weren't leading a life of restricting yourself to 14 units in between looking for "something to take the edge off."
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Mr C on April 20, 2022, 08:06:46 pm
Talking about 'taking the edge off', my knee surgeon just gave me some wonderful 'take the edge off' pills. Not only kills  all the pain, but they also make me smile, and have sweet dreams. Better than a pint of lager!

1) Hang on, did you get that knee replacement?
2) I wanna meet your surgeon--what mine gives me doesn't sound nearly as good!
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: SPQR on April 20, 2022, 09:50:21 pm
Translate the prescription. Let us know what it is.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: gogators! on April 21, 2022, 05:00:41 am
It is pretty obvious Korea is governed by old men. Problems that
never get solved and the lack of political will are symptomatic of
this type of rule.

Thailand is very welcoming for retirees. They have many visa plans
for the over 55. I'm thinking of the 90-day visa to escape the wonderful
Korean winter.

Korea has so many problems that even Koreans aren't making Koreans
anymore.
I have a friend who moved to Portugal after retiring and loves it. Worth looking into.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: SPQR on April 21, 2022, 06:48:32 am
I have a friend who moved to Portugal after retiring and loves it. Worth looking into.

I have a buddy who bought an old stone barn in the south of France
and is renovating it into a house. Yes, a nice part of the world.

Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: 745sticky on April 21, 2022, 08:19:51 am
As far as retirement prospects, plenty of countries have good prospects where the bulk of the population is NOT enjoying a standard of living that the average expat on savings would enjoy.

okay, but as far as i'm aware the conversation was about retirement in thailand specifically. what's your point here, exactly?


 
I don't think that's really reflective of the development and governance of the country, unless you think "governance of the country" is based on the life it provides for expats, which frankly some expats seem to view it as.

again, nobody has compared the development and governance of korea to the development and governance of thailand.


That's the fact that he seems to compare retirement benefits as a Korean in Korea vs. retirement benefits as an expat in Thailand,

really? where did you read that?

Aside from the endemic and appalling poverty of old people in
Korea, there is just the fact that Korea sucks for retirement. Imagine
when your older, waking up to a -15C winter. WTF are you going to
do?

I have my sights set on Thailand.  My wife says, how can we do that?
Well, Thailand is MUCH cheaper than Korea. So financially it will be easy.

aside from the one brief mention of poverty of old people (which he specifically mentioned was an aside), i'm pretty sure cheaper prices in thailand and cold weather affects expats just as much as koreans, lol.



Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on April 21, 2022, 08:24:52 am
Speaking as one who has done the retirement thing in SE Asia (though I came out of retirement to work in Taiwan for a while), the best advice I can give is that you should have enough to pay for housing and transportation in cash. If you have to pay rent and rely on public transport for where you want to go, that can be a problem. In other words, if you plan to retire in Thailand or wherever, try to do it debt free or you can run into problems down the line, especially if you are on a fixed income.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Mr C on April 21, 2022, 10:44:00 am
I've had one done, and the left knee is basically bone on bone now. Hurts like crazy at times, and mobility and flexibility is dropping fast. I'm on a bit of a crash diet (no pie, beer, or bread) hoping to drop a shed load of Kgs so I can extend surgery until later this year. Exercise went out the door around New Year.

The local neurosurgeon gives me super powerful medicine. Infact way too strong for me. If I take it twice a day, no kidding, I'm floating around the house and have vivid dreams inbetween light sleep. Fun teaching, I tell you. I never get annoyed at my students. I pretty sure that they are opioid based, because I get minor withdrawal symptoms if I take them for more than 4 or 5 days. Also shocking constipation. I have no clue what they are called sorry.

My actual knee surgeon (in the city) gives me basically the same, but fractionally less potent. Still very good and while I'm still aware of my knee, the pills kill the pain and give me way more mobility. I complained that his original pills weren't doing the job, so he gave stuff with far more punch. He knows that I'm in pretty bad pain, and he knows I'm not ready to get another knee done just yet. The operation is incredibly painful, and recovery takes so long, so I think he's just like...ah, what the hell!
These ones are ok twice a day and no withdrawal symptoms that I'm aware of. Mind you, I'm taking them regularly at the moment, so I guess time will tell. Again, I have no idea what they are called, but they do make me float around happily, and give me lots of dreams. Luckily, no constipation.

Funny thing, I was actually thinking about how you were coping with the pain after your operation. It went through my mind that you may have not been given anything very strong, as is the usual way with pain management in Korea. I think you really have to push it to get the 'good stuff'.

Man oh man--good luck with the knee!  That replacement procedure looks very drastic.  One doc said that for my shoulder, so I found a different doctor.

As to meds, yeah, I got basically Aleve (Naproxen) + a muscle relaxer. 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Liechtenstein on April 21, 2022, 02:56:26 pm
Sure, but considering where it was at 1950 and where it is now vs. Korea, well, there is a marked gap in results. If indeed what he claimed was true, then Korea should be as it were and Thailand should be light-years ahead. That isn't the case.

Whether one has been to Thailand or not does not change the significant gap in development and change that has taken place. Unless one is seriously trying to put Thailand on par with where Korea is now and asserting that in Korea, in fact, nothing changes as is evidenced by the past 70 years.

No one out there in serious academic/professional circles is claiming that Korea hasn't changed significantly since 1950. Only a few disgruntled waygooks who seem to associate "development" with "fun for me."

I'm not sure you understand the Thai mentality vs. the Korean one.

Thailand runs on sabai sabai, which roughly translates to take it easy. The exact opposite of Korea's unofficial motto of work till you drop.

Frankly, I'm amazed anything happens in Thailand knowing the people as I do!
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: SPQR on April 21, 2022, 06:31:27 pm

I'm not sure you understand the Thai mentality vs. the Korean one.


Of course he doesn't. He has never been there. But he seems to be an expert
on this, just like everything else.

Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: gogators! on April 21, 2022, 06:38:19 pm
Man oh man--good luck with the knee!  That replacement procedure looks very drastic.  One doc said that for my shoulder, so I found a different doctor.

As to meds, yeah, I got basically Aleve (Naproxen) + a muscle relaxer. 
Two friends who had knee replacement here in the US both got oxycodone and both said they NEEDED it.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: SPQR on April 21, 2022, 07:51:56 pm
Yeah, it's 'throw yourself out the window' kind of pain, if you could actually stand up, let alone move. It's so intense and it's a month before it even starts to subside...3 before you can throw away the zimmer frame with confidence. I watched grown men cry during physio.

I broke my femur in uni and was on morphine for weeks. Then codeine. Yes, new vistas
of pain. For some reason bones just send lots of pain signals. People think drugs like
morphine must be good. But it wasn't. No pain, but a sensation like lying at the bottom
of a warm swamp. Every sense deadened.



Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: SPQR on April 21, 2022, 07:53:03 pm
BTW, good luck. And a piece of advice. You should specifically ask for opiates
or the surgeon will put you on aspirin or something.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Mr C on April 21, 2022, 08:12:48 pm
Two friends who had knee replacement here in the US both got oxycodone and both said they NEEDED it.

Oops, I was very unclear.  I was on a drip for a week post-surgery, then two weeks with codeine (?) then moved to less addictive stuff. 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: gogators! on April 22, 2022, 02:27:54 am
I broke my femur in uni and was on morphine for weeks. Then codeine. Yes, new vistas
of pain. For some reason bones just send lots of pain signals. People think drugs like
morphine must be good. But it wasn't. No pain, but a sensation like lying at the bottom
of a warm swamp. Every sense deadened.




There's been many a day when I could get behind that.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: HiddenInKorea on April 22, 2022, 08:31:13 am
I realized that Korea is still very much a developing country with a developed country's infrastructure, economy, and services.
Before coming to Korea, I went to Japan which had exceeded my expectations. Everything about Japan was incredible, the culture, and the people were so polite and orderly, and the neighborhoods were diverse and interesting.  So I was hoping that Korea would be even better than Japan.

When I first came here, I felt that Korea was the complete opposite of Japan.
It was too flashy, disorganized, and slightly chaotic.
But as I am here for a fourth year now, and got married to a Korean last year, I have grown to enjoy Korea enough to make it my home.
Overall, I am glad that I made the decision to come here. Living here has really pushed me out of my comfort zone.
I used to be a really orderly and organized person, always started tasks early, followed a set schedule, and prefer to be around those with good manners and exceptional social etiquette.
Now, I am OK with last-minute changes and realized that I can be more flexible and adapt to situations much better than I ever thought I could, and don't mind the ajjumas and ajjushis rude behavior and pushing on the buses and subways. Though I doubt I would want to drive here... everyone here drives like they're out to kill one another. And it seems the bus drivers want everyone dead >.<

I think my attitude changed from disappointment to appreciation over the past 3 years. Not just appreciation for how this country has changed me and helped me grow as a person, but also appreciation for everything that I was privileged to have back home. When I was younger, everyone was interested in Japan (anime/ manga trend) and then Korea ( k-pop/ k-dramas), and whenever my friends and I had a hard time we would just focus on "escaping" to the magical land of East Asia where we though things must be much better.... but coming over here, I realized that many Koreans want to immigrate to Canada, and the United States and they want their kids to have the stressfree childhood that they can't have in Korea because of all of this competition and societal pressure, as well as better work-life balance opportunities and more space.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: HiddenInKorea on April 22, 2022, 11:46:50 pm
You should have been here 20 or 30 years ago. Disorganized, and slightly chaotic were massive understatements. It was like culture shock going on a bender!

I can only imagine that Korea 30 or 20 years ago must have been a similar experience as present day developing countries like India in 2022.

Disorganization, chaos, and corruption were probably high! While work places are less professional than in the West, there seems to be more and more laws in place to stop corruption, workplace harassment, improve maternity/ paternity leave etc which is a good sign of societal development.

I guess at first Koreans only focused on improving the economic/ financial status of their country as most people were poor and hungry, and now that basic needs are met they can focus on overcoming other societal issues.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: VanIslander on April 23, 2022, 08:23:13 am
20 years ago sidewalks were littered with cars over curbs.

Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: kevingrabb on April 23, 2022, 10:06:20 pm
20 years ago sidewalks *are* littered with cars over curbs.


Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: pkjh on April 25, 2022, 07:41:02 am
20 years ago sidewalks were littered with cars over curbs.
There were parked cars in every available space, under bridges, in those pained areas between roads. Any place where you were able to supposedly not impede traffic too much.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: pkjh on April 25, 2022, 12:02:24 pm
I tell you what amazes me; truck drivers are always able to sniff out newly created streets. Within a week or two, a new street has trucks parked along one side, making it impossible to drive down that side of the road, freely. Where do they come from? Where did they park before? A mystery!
lol.. I remember my time as a kid here, when car ownership really just started, my parents were visiting a Korean colleague. The family had to park a good hike away from their home, since older neighborhoods weren't designed for cars in mind. Luckily back then the average family probably had like 4 kids, so everyone in the car would have to carry their share of groceries like 1km to their house. So my father sent me, and my sister, out with his colleagues' kid to hike out to their car grab a bag, and hike it back to the guy's home. It seemed like 10 km to me.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: SPQR on April 25, 2022, 12:57:15 pm
lol.. I remember my time as a kid here, when car ownership really just started, my parents were visiting a Korean colleague. The family had to park a good hike away from their home, since older neighborhoods weren't designed for cars in mind. Luckily back then the average family probably had like 4 kids, so everyone in the car would have to carry their share of groceries like 1km to their house. So my father sent me, and my sister, out with his colleagues' kid to hike out to their car grab a bag, and hike it back to the guy's home. It seemed like 10 km to me.


I think that was when ajoshi with attitude started. I think the mindset was: I have a car. You don't.
I'm rich. You're not. I have the right of way. You don't.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Sagi Keun on April 30, 2022, 07:10:13 pm
Everything about Japan was incredible, the culture, and the people were so polite and orderly, and the neighborhoods were diverse and interesting.  So I was hoping that Korea would be even better than Japan.

When I first came here, I felt that Korea was the complete opposite of Japan.

I used to be a really orderly and organized person, always started tasks early, followed a set schedule, and prefer to be around those with good manners and exceptional social etiquette.
Now, I am OK with last-minute changes and realized that I can be more flexible and adapt to situations much better than I ever thought I could, and don't mind the ajjumas and ajjushis rude behavior

I just wish Ajosshis wouldn't blatantly pick their nose so much, its disgusting.

They still haven't learned to wash their hands in the toilets nor cover their mouth when they cough.

lack of refinement is an issue here.

The women are fine but the men..ugghh need the kind of basic training that any five year-old in the west has already mastered.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: VanIslander on May 01, 2022, 05:20:49 am
I have been to Japan 6 times in the last 20 years and have 4 takeaways:

1. The strangers on the street will act fake (unlike Koreans they will point you in the wrong direction rather than shrug their shoulders when they don't know where tf you are going);

2. They will smile a lot but it means nothing. Unlike Korean sincerity, Japanese interaction is  robotic and distancing;

3. The Japanese would rather lie to you than say they don't know; Koreans say "I don't know" quickly.

4. The police are night & day "better" at enforcing the law which means they are EAGER and WILLING to do their job.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: chimp on May 01, 2022, 04:03:24 pm
I've seen like a zillion VanLolander posts in the past 20 years and have a few takeaways:

1. There's a pretense of authoratitiveness despite not saying anything particularly informative or interesting.

2. A Boomer-ish vibe of baseless self-satisfaction.

3. Would rather type out a long and boring shaggy dog story than admit it's better to not post at all.

4. Doesn't realize that nobody cares that he's been to Vancouver, Auckland, and Mobile AL.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Augustiner on May 01, 2022, 04:11:07 pm
I've seen like a zillion VanLolander posts in the past 20 years and have a few takeaways:

1. There's a pretense of authoratitiveness despite not saying anything particularly informative or interesting.

2. A Boomer-ish vibe of baseless self-satisfaction.

3. Would rather type out a long and boring shaggy dog story than admit it's better to not post at all.

4. Doesn't realize that nobody cares that he's been to Vancouver, Auckland, and Mobile AL.

Chimp, whenever I see you've posted a bunch of comments I know I'm going to have a good laugh.  I appreciate your work and this site needs more of it.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Renma on May 02, 2022, 07:50:13 am
Chimp, whenever I see you've posted a bunch of comments I know I'm going to have a good laugh.  I appreciate your work and this site needs more of it.

He upsets the regulars but I've enjoyed all his posts too.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on May 02, 2022, 07:54:09 am
I've seen like a zillion VanLolander posts in the past 20 years and have a few takeaways:

1. There's a pretense of authoratitiveness despite not saying anything particularly informative or interesting.

2. A Boomer-ish vibe of baseless self-satisfaction.

3. Would rather type out a long and boring shaggy dog story than admit it's better to not post at all.

4. Doesn't realize that nobody cares that he's been to Vancouver, Auckland, and Mobile AL.

Wouldn't it be nice if you could say something nice for once? You just appear out of the blue to post some nasty comment. Come on dude, if you don't like what a person posts, ignore it and move on. No need to be so nasty.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: kevingrabb on May 02, 2022, 07:58:45 am
(https://external-preview.redd.it/I7sdCgflhktgqb_2s1m_b3ZgEULmeJ6MxL9jfJ1_l30.gif?format=png8&s=30b628f4cdc365c97b7c1038fde92c23015a846d)
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Kyndo on May 02, 2022, 08:05:04 am
(https://external-preview.redd.it/I7sdCgflhktgqb_2s1m_b3ZgEULmeJ6MxL9jfJ1_l30.gif?format=png8&s=30b628f4cdc365c97b7c1038fde92c23015a846d)
:shocked:!

:laugh:
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: hangook77 on May 02, 2022, 10:38:30 am
I was pretty happy when the pay was really good, but less so with it being less (with inflation factored in).  On the other hand, I thought the country had become less racist than in the past.  Then, I tried to get my Gopax going when they got the KRW accounts back.  Then, they told me I was not Korean so I couldn't use it.  Then, last year, a bunch of teachers in my area got dropped (though many more quit).  If the Korean teacher says something bad about you no matter how long you've been here and how much praise you got in the past, you're out.  The foreigner is a lesser human being and the Korean will always be believed over the foreigner.  Legal dispute at police station same thing.  So, while the racism is less in your face and less direct, it is still here.  I guess the naivete during my first two or three years, the slackness of the job, guest of honor treatment by some schools, the high pay, etc made it a great deal.  No wonder so many waygooks back in the day wanted to get married and settle down here.  Sadly,  Korea pulled a bait and switch on those folks.  I guess the newbies know what they are coming over for low pay now and contracts with more and more work or clauses added to it?  Recruiters may lie to them though. 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on May 02, 2022, 11:29:58 am
The posts are funny though, and there are some good observations about a couple of posters. Don't take it to heart too much.
I agree with other posters, while it may not be fun for those targeted in the 'Chimps' swing-by, it's breaks up the usual and adds a bit of color to the site. I also don't think it's nasty. His/Her writing just doesn't have that tone about it.

Well we will have to agree to disagree on this, some of his/her previous posts have been nasty. I just don't see the need for people to 'go after' others, the world has enough unpleasantness as it is, it definitely doesn't need more.  There is a lot of unpleasantness on this site. People get all bent out of shape when they see things they don't agree with and instead of politely disagreeing (which everyone has the right to) we get snide, unpleasant remarks. Leaves a bitter taste in one's mouth.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: D.L.Orean on May 02, 2022, 11:35:21 am
I was pretty happy when the pay was really good, but less so with it being less (with inflation factored in).  On the other hand, I thought the country had become less racist than in the past.  Then, I tried to get my Gopax going when they got the KRW accounts back.  Then, they told me I was not Korean so I couldn't use it.  Then, last year, a bunch of teachers in my area got dropped (though many more quit).  If the Korean teacher says something bad about you no matter how long you've been here and how much praise you got in the past, you're out.  The foreigner is a lesser human being and the Korean will always be believed over the foreigner.  Legal dispute at police station same thing.  So, while the racism is less in your face and less direct, it is still here.  I guess the naivete during my first two or three years, the slackness of the job, guest of honor treatment by some schools, the high pay, etc made it a great deal.  No wonder so many waygooks back in the day wanted to get married and settle down here.  Sadly,  Korea pulled a bait and switch on those folks.  I guess the newbies know what they are coming over for low pay now and contracts with more and more work or clauses added to it?  Recruiters may lie to them though.

There's always China
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: hangook77 on May 03, 2022, 11:51:50 am
You should have been here 20 or 30 years ago. Disorganized, and slightly chaotic were massive understatements. It was like culture shock going on a bender!

Korea's pretty tame now.  Kind of boring compared to 15 plus years ago. 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: hangook77 on May 03, 2022, 11:55:16 am
There were parked cars in every available space, under bridges, in those pained areas between roads. Any place where you were able to supposedly not impede traffic too much.


The mystery to me is why each city, gu, dong, or whatever doesn't build enough parking lots, parking garages, etc.  They have known for years about the need for parking and yet they build nothing and then wonder why the cars are all parked up and down the road and up someone's butt?  Seriously? 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 03, 2022, 12:10:14 pm

The mystery to me is why each city, gu, dong, or whatever doesn't build enough parking lots, parking garages, etc.  They have known for years about the need for parking and yet they build nothing and then wonder why the cars are all parked up and down the road and up someone's butt?  Seriously?
They would have to use eminent domain to seize private land in order to build the parking structure. Either that or use some old government land. Or you could demolish a park or school.

As you can see from above, the options aren't great.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Kyndo on May 03, 2022, 12:37:48 pm
Best way would be to enforce existing legislation that requires all buildings exceeding a certain floor area to provide a percentage of that to parking.
It's already encoded in zoning and building legislation, but often enough it's not enforced.

A common tactic is to plan a large structure, and include the designated area for parking, get the permits, build according to plans, have everything inspected, and then repurpose the parking space.

Seoul currently averages only 0.75 parking spaces per household.  :sad:

Still, there's a tiny bit of hope: Seoul is considering legislation to require all new complexes to provide a minimum of 1 space per household, and there's even talk of following the Japanese system where the purchase of a vehicle requires evidence of a guaranteed parking spot.
https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2021/12/281_320034.html
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: hangook77 on May 03, 2022, 01:03:37 pm
There's always China

Sure, after covid.  At least they pay you to put up with the racism.  Either that or a trade back home once all these stupid mandates end. 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 03, 2022, 01:06:47 pm
The market will correct itself on this. As the demand for parking increases, the market incentive to build private parking structures increases, eventually that will satisfy demand for commercial parking.

Now residential parking...that needs the hand of the state IMO although the market will mostly settle that.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: hangook77 on May 03, 2022, 01:07:34 pm
They would have to use eminent domain to seize private land in order to build the parking structure. Either that or use some old government land. Or you could demolish a park or school.

As you can see from above, the options aren't great.

I mean when they build a new area.  Even when they build the new area or open up new streets which is what this was in response to, there is not enough parking put in.  Should be a regulation for more parking lots or garages to be built on new sites.  So called new towns.  So, what happens are the cars are all parking up and down the road constricting traffic because some lazy numbnut at the government office never bothered to order more parking space to the developers when they develop new sites.  But, yes in an older area which has lost some residents, you could take an old house or building and knock it down to put in some parking space.  Seems like they are deliberately not building parking to keep people out or something?
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: hangook77 on May 03, 2022, 01:10:26 pm
The market will correct itself on this. As the demand for parking increases, the market incentive to build private parking structures increases, eventually that will satisfy demand for commercial parking.

Now residential parking...that needs the hand of the state IMO although the market will mostly settle that.

Normal market rules never function here or in East Asia for that matter.  Besides over here the only way a private entity would build something like that would be to charge you an arm and a leg.  The government can just order the developers when they build these so called "new towns" to put in more parking space.  The fact that there are cars parked illegally all over the palce tells you there is poor planning and not enough space built into it. 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: pkjh on May 03, 2022, 01:12:13 pm
there's even talk of following the Japanese system where the purchase of a vehicle requires evidence of a guaranteed parking spot.
https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2021/12/281_320034.html
This I hope they never do. It usually tends to effect the poor, more than the rich. "Oh sorry, you live in an old building, can't buy that used car without a parking spot. Got to move."

Also, seen how some smaller building paint their parking? Sure they have 8 parking spots, but 4 of them are behind the other 4, so it effectively blocks the back spots. So unless you get that front parking spot early you're going to park on the street to be practical.

The burden has to go to the builders, not the car owners. And if the builders don't build to to specs, pull their business license. Got to make the consequences bite.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Kyndo on May 03, 2022, 02:03:30 pm
The burden has to go to the builders, not the car owners. And if the builders don't build to to specs, pull their business license. Got to make the consequences bite.
This all the way. Unless you slap down offenders, it's just window dressing

This I hope they never do. It usually tends to effect the poor, more than the rich. "Oh sorry, you live in an old building, can't buy that used car without a parking spot. Got to move."
I think part of the idea is that this, coupled with available public transport, discourages the reliance on automobiles in the first place.  This "garage certificate" policy was put in place in Japan before there were a lot of vehicles on the road, so the policy effectively shaped driving/parking culture. I agree that implementing it in Korea at this point would require *a lot* of prior consideration.

Something else of note is that this policy effectively created a thriving private market for parking which in turn means that more, competitively priced parking spaces are available.

Here's what I thought was an interesting article on the subject, if anybody's interested:
http://www.citybeautiful.nz/2018/09/parking-in-japan/
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 03, 2022, 02:50:09 pm
Counterpoint: Bulldoze sidewalks, bike lanes and ban bicycles. Cars rule. Also, those central lanes for buses should be for cars to park. Also, we need double decker highways. Tax pedestrians to help pay for everything.

I say, let em crash.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: VanIslander on May 03, 2022, 07:38:20 pm
Counterpoint: Bulldoze sidewalks, bike lanes and ban bicycles. Cars rule.
This. Is. The. Most. American. Post. Ever.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: gogators! on May 04, 2022, 04:09:46 am
Besides over here the only way a private entity would build something like that would be to charge you an arm and a leg.
Never been to Costco or any of the shopping malls?
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Kyndo on May 04, 2022, 07:29:43 am
Counterpoint: Bulldoze sidewalks, bike lanes and ban bicycles. Cars rule. Also, those central lanes for buses should be for cars to park. Also, we need double decker highways. Tax pedestrians to help pay for everything.
I say, let em crash.
:cry:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiJWwWP1g7w&ab_channel=AmyGrantVEVO
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Augustiner on May 04, 2022, 07:45:26 am
Now, if you're going to post that song, post the original.  Amy Grant? Ouch.  Nothing from Michael Bolton you want to put up?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFB-d-8_bvY

Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: hangook77 on May 04, 2022, 07:50:31 am
Never been to Costco or any of the shopping malls?

Some of them are now trying to charge for parking too.  But the point is stand alone parking or parking garages for an area are not economically feasible for a private company unless they charge and arm and a leg.  If you want to go shopping or visit stores or marts or services or a park in a certain area, there needs to be parking garages so people can park and then walk a certain distance in that area.  It's the only way it will work in Korea.  Parking that is either free or quite cheap/  Otherwise people won't go and many local shops and businesses lose money due to a lack of customers.  Why most cities here approve these lousy building plans makes no sense.  But this is the land that common sense forgot. 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Kyndo on May 04, 2022, 11:27:57 am
Now, if you're going to post that song, post the original.  Amy Grant? Ouch.  Nothing from Michael Bolton you want to put up?
Honestly, I was looking for the Sheryl Crow version, but couldn't find it.
If I can't have the version *I* want, then nobody else can have the version they want either.   >:(
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Augustiner on May 04, 2022, 11:37:37 am
Honestly, I was looking for the Sheryl Crow version, but couldn't find it.
If I can't have the version *I* want, then nobody else can have the version they want either.   >:(

The Counting Crows version is probably available. 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Lazio on May 04, 2022, 11:46:03 am
This I hope they never do. It usually tends to effect the poor, more than the rich. "Oh sorry, you live in an old building, can't buy that used car without a parking spot. Got to move."

Also, seen how some smaller building paint their parking? Sure they have 8 parking spots, but 4 of them are behind the other 4, so it effectively blocks the back spots. So unless you get that front parking spot early you're going to park on the street to be practical.

The burden has to go to the builders, not the car owners. And if the builders don't build to to specs, pull their business license. Got to make the consequences bite.

I used to live in a building with two parking bays behind each other. There were 8 units in the building and each had a certain parking bay designated to them. Basically your next door neighbor was parking behind you or in-front-of you. What some did is they actually gave a spare key to their neighbor so they could freely move the cars without bothering each other. Our neighbor always went out very early and came back late or not at all. So I just used the rear space and very rarely had to call them to move their car. Sure it's not perfect but beats circling around for 10 minutes to find a spot that isn't far from your home.

I believe all new villas must have a parking space for each unit. Otherwise they can't get permit. The problem is that there are still many old neighborhoods that were built 30 years ago with zero parking. It will take time until they all disappear.
Also, there seem to be some gray areas. If the villa has some business on the ground floor, a restaurant or coffee shop etc. it might not be mandatory to have parking for each residential unit on the higher floors. Or if a building contains small, one-room units, then it seems like the parking space rule doesn't apply.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Lazio on May 04, 2022, 11:52:34 am
Best way would be to enforce existing legislation that requires all buildings exceeding a certain floor area to provide a percentage of that to parking.
It's already encoded in zoning and building legislation, but often enough it's not enforced.

A common tactic is to plan a large structure, and include the designated area for parking, get the permits, build according to plans, have everything inspected, and then repurpose the parking space.

Seoul currently averages only 0.75 parking spaces per household.  :sad:

Still, there's a tiny bit of hope: Seoul is considering legislation to require all new complexes to provide a minimum of 1 space per household, and there's even talk of following the Japanese system where the purchase of a vehicle requires evidence of a guaranteed parking spot.
https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2021/12/281_320034.html


I believe all new apartments have at least 1 space per unit. I would say at least 1.2 seems to be standard these days
However, depending on the location, it might not be enough. If there is great public transportation, buses and subways within a few minutes, then it can be okay.
But if it's little out with only a few bus lines nearby, then 1.2 is definitely not enough. So there is no easy way to set a number that works everywhere.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: pkjh on May 04, 2022, 12:00:47 pm
The new huge apartment buildings in Gyeonggi have more than ample parking underground. Always a spot. Just need all the new juteks to have suitable parking.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Kyndo on May 04, 2022, 12:02:45 pm
Yeah, that's true. That's probably why the average currently sits at 0.75 rather than much lower in Seoul. On the other hand, one room villas are notoriously horrendous for their lack of parking spaces, and there are sooooo many of them...

Another big problem with building parking spaces is that the need for them fluctuates heavily depending on time of day, day of the week, and even by season. They also take up a lot of room, nobody really wants to pay for them, and it's really difficult to do any kind of space sharing with them. I mean, if you have a parking lot with room for 20 cars but only 3 are parked in it, the rest of the space is just... wasted. :sad:

 I wonder if there are any existing space sharing ideas out there for the temporary utilization of unused parking spaces?
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Lazio on May 04, 2022, 12:25:58 pm
The new huge apartment buildings in Gyeonggi have more than ample parking underground. Always a spot. Just need all the new juteks to have suitable parking.

Unfortunately, that is not true in all cases. I could show you countless new complexes that have around 1.2 parking/unit or even less. And that is not enough. If more than every fifth household has a second car, then they have a lack of parking already. Sure, people would park anywhere that they aren't supposed to and that way they can accommodate more cars than the official number. But parking can definitely be a problem even in new complexes.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: hangook77 on May 04, 2022, 12:39:36 pm
Yeah, that's true. That's probably why the average currently sits at 0.75 rather than much lower in Seoul. On the other hand, one room villas are notoriously horrendous for their lack of parking spaces, and there are sooooo many of them...

Another big problem with building parking spaces is that the need for them fluctuates heavily depending on time of day, day of the week, and even by season. They also take up a lot of room, nobody really wants to pay for them, and it's really difficult to do any kind of space sharing with them. I mean, if you have a parking lot with room for 20 cars but only 3 are parked in it, the rest of the space is just... wasted. :sad:

 I wonder if there are any existing space sharing ideas out there for the temporary utilization of unused parking spaces?

I lived in a couple of villas who had great parking underneath side by side.  But there are plenty of others that don't put parking underneath or who put the front and back parking which is useless.  Maybe should be a government rule on that for new villas.  Seems a bribe is paid and nothing is enforced or something. 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Augustiner on May 04, 2022, 01:47:45 pm
I lived in a couple of villas who had great parking underneath side by side.  But there are plenty of others that don't put parking underneath or who put the front and back parking which is useless.  Maybe should be a government rule on that for new villas.  Seems a bribe is paid and nothing is enforced or something.

My apartment complex doesn't allow foreigners to have a parking space.  I had to sell my Bricklin SV at a loss because I was spending so much time driving around the area looking for a spot.  I don't think it's fair since it's I'm paying rent like everyone else, but they were adamant and said it's nothing personal but foreigners "live ok, park, aniyo" Then the complex manager made a big x with his arms.

 They did say I could use the bike racks but the kids are always ripping off my banana seat and $LUT license plate I got in a box of cornflakes.  Back to public transit for me. 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: gogators! on May 04, 2022, 02:21:53 pm
Some of them are now trying to charge for parking too.  But the point is stand alone parking or parking garages for an area are not economically feasible for a private company unless they charge and arm and a leg.  If you want to go shopping or visit stores or marts or services or a park in a certain area, there needs to be parking garages so people can park and then walk a certain distance in that area.  It's the only way it will work in Korea.  Parking that is either free or quite cheap/  Otherwise people won't go and many local shops and businesses lose money due to a lack of customers.  Why most cities here approve these lousy building plans makes no sense.  But this is the land that common sense forgot. 
How do you know they aren't economically feasible? And which shopping mall is charging for parking? I know Shinsegae used to charge but if you purchased a certain amount the parking was free. I never paid.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: pkjh on May 04, 2022, 02:38:28 pm
How do you know they aren't economically feasible? And which shopping mall is charging for parking? I know Shinsegae used to charge but if you purchased a certain amount the parking was free. I never paid.
I believe often if the department store is located in a prime area (eg. major city in a core business district) they'll charge, but as you said you just need to purchase like 10k-won worth every few hours to be off the hook.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: hangook77 on May 04, 2022, 03:22:16 pm
How do you know they aren't economically feasible? And which shopping mall is charging for parking? I know Shinsegae used to charge but if you purchased a certain amount the parking was free. I never paid.

All the Marts charge and yes you must spend a lot to not be charged which is BS.  But community parking ltos if you want to go to a certain area to do business or shop, there is no parking which deters people from going to that area to spend money.  Many local small businesses and shops lose out.  In the new areas developers build, there is no reason they can't put a parking garage or two in place and then hand it over to the city.  Maybe free parking or cheap parking people will accept.  People will not accept 20 or 30 dollars an hour or two.  This is the only way a private parking place will be profitable and people won't accept it. 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: pkjh on May 04, 2022, 04:51:31 pm
All the Marts charge and yes you must spend a lot to not be charged which is BS.
I've been to plenty of marts where they don't charge for parking. And in those places that do, you don't need to spend that much.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 04, 2022, 06:11:14 pm
All the Marts charge and yes you must spend a lot to not be charged which is BS. 
You need to spend like 10k. It's not some freeloader's space.

Quote
But community parking ltos if you want to go to a certain area to do business or shop, there is no parking which deters people from going to that area to spend money.  Many local small businesses and shops lose out.
Again, this comes down to what land is public and what land is private. In order to do anything the government has to buy land or use eminent domain. These are both tricky processes.

Quote
In the new areas developers build, there is no reason they can't put a parking garage or two in place and then hand it over to the city. 
Well, aside from such minor details as materials cost, labor cost, permits, inspections, uncertain return on investment, no direct payment for this and opportunity cost it's totally no big deal!

You're seriously wondering why some random midsize developer doesn't build an entire parking structure and just hand it off to the city for free?
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Lazio on May 06, 2022, 11:32:53 am
The new huge apartment buildings in Gyeonggi have more than ample parking underground. Always a spot. Just need all the new juteks to have suitable parking.

I just remembered that our monthly maintenance bill has a host of details on it. One of them is the income from parking fees. In this complex, 2 cars/household are free to park, so it doesn't say how many have 2 cars. But out of 1060 units, 130 of them have 3 cars registered and 21 have 4 cars. I estimate that at least 300 units have 2 cars but it could easily be 400 or more. So even though we have 1.75 parking spaces/unit, it is pretty much all needed. And that 1.75 is actually on the high side of the scale. Truth is though, that this complex consists of only large units (38 pyeong and 47 pyeong and a few even larger ones) and as such, the residents tend to have larger families, and more cars. In a general apartment complex which has mainly 25 and 34 pyeong units with some 40 pyeong ones, they would have less cars. But 1.3-1.4 spaces/unit would still be necessary and sadly it's less than that in most cases. Even in new complexes.
During daytime hours, the parking may seem ample, but try finding a spot after 10 pm. Luckily, it's never been an issue where I live.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: VanIslander on May 08, 2022, 02:54:21 am
I never heard the word "mart" before coming to SK in 2002. Is it a Brit thing?

Kmart, Walmart, ... but never "mart".

Store, shop...

Do people in Britain, Ireland and/or South Africa say "I went to the mart."

Sources say it became obsolete by the 1950s.

In Korean sure (Konglish is a kind of Korean spoken by Koreans to Koreans). Otherwise?  In terms of international communication?)
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: gogators! on May 08, 2022, 05:26:43 am
I never heard the word "mart" before coming to SK in 2002. Is it a Brit thing?

Kmart, Walmart, ... but never "mart".

Store, shop...

Do people in Britain, Ireland and/or South Africa say "I went to the mart."

Sources say it became obsolete by the 1950s.

In Korean sure (Konglish is a kind of Korean spoken by Koreans to Koreans). Otherwise?  In terms of international communication?)
http://mini-mart.com/ (http://mini-mart.com/)
Serving the Texas hill country since 1973.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: VanIslander on May 08, 2022, 06:57:39 am
I thought I was clear: names Kmart, Walmart... so even Minimart may have traction but "I went to a mart" may be an extinct dinosaur in the English-speaking world.

I haven't been to the Carolinas, the U.K., Australia or South Africa, so I can't be sure.

Texas, California, New Zealand and my Canada surely do not frequently say "I went to a mart." Like dictionaries say, it is outdated. Only in Korea have i heard it so i suspect it's merely Konglish (part of Korean - a language spoken by 2% of the world - perfectly fine on the peninsula by the locals).
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: VanIslander on May 08, 2022, 03:44:47 pm
... I have no idea if it is archaic, but it is the word used in korea, and we all know what a mart is... And yes, I had never heard the word as a stand-alone, before coming here...
Agreed.

Quote
... I bet there are some people in some countries that have never used the word 'Dairy' as the synonym for a mart or shop.
Waaa? Is this a multiverse take? In what universe does that ever happen?

Remember guys: Konglish ain't English, it's Korean. The language of the locals talking to locals and localized foreigners ain't the international English that's widely known, the American & British variety, that's known in 100+ countries.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: gogators! on May 08, 2022, 08:02:26 pm
Over the past several years, Accenture has invested in a single global SAP system based on SAP S/4HANA, SAP Business Warehouse, and SAP HANA as a data mart.
ó Forbes, 24 June 2021
People raced out of a mart nearby with champagne bottles in hand.
ó Joseph Hoyt, Dallas News, 5 Apr. 2021
Local restaurants also have morphed into makeshift food marts, selling everything from groceries to hand sanitizer.
ó Kelly Tyko, USA TODAY, 9 Apr. 2020
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: VanIslander on May 08, 2022, 10:38:30 pm
"Betimes" is also an archaic English term but one can google a dozen uses of it. Some people read history and use it.

I have never tried to "correct" or change Korean uses of words outside of the classroom. Konglish is Korean.

 They can borrow and use words however they like.

 "Service" for free things, "sharp" for mechanical pencil, "air con" for air conditioner or a/c, "eye shopping" for window shopping, "hot dog" for a bunless item known in English as a corndog, ... whatever.

As a teacher we should just make them AWARE of the difference. They - our students not those on the street - should learn the word "bun" and know in English every hot dog has one; a sweet bun, croissant or other pastry isn't bread in English because most uses of the word "bread" in English refers to baked products that are in sandwiches. A bakery makes cakes, pastry and bread.

Again, inside the classroom vs. outside the classroom is a good perspective to both doing your job and accommodating and appreciating the country.

When I first came here I immediately thought their use of English was wrong. After a few months I just saw it as different. Loan words are used in countless languages.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: gogators! on May 09, 2022, 01:23:06 am
"Betimes" is also an archaic English term but one can google a dozen uses of it. Some people read history and use it.

I have never tried to "correct" or change Korean uses of words outside of the classroom. Konglish is Korean.

 They can borrow and use words however they like.

 "Service" for free things, "sharp" for mechanical pencil, "air con" for air conditioner or a/c, "eye shopping" for window shopping, "hot dog" for a bunless item known in English as a corndog, ... whatever.

As a teacher we should just make them AWARE of the difference. They - our students not those on the street - should learn the word "bun" and know in English every hot dog has one; a sweet bun, croissant or other pastry isn't bread in English because most uses of the word "bread" in English refers to baked products that are in sandwiches. A bakery makes cakes, pastry and bread.

Again, inside the classroom vs. outside the classroom is a good perspective to both doing your job and accommodating and appreciating the country.

When I first came here I immediately thought their use of English was wrong. After a few months I just saw it as different. Loan words are used in countless languages.
How far are you going to go to defend your "suspicions" regarding the use of mart. Three references in contemporary mass media (and many more could have been provided) do not justify the conclusion "some people read history and use it."

I don't think it's a big jump to think that more than a few of the good folks living in Kerrville, Comfort, Center Point, Bandera and  Fredericksburg, Texas say they are going to the mart for X, Y and Z.

I also don't think that many of them say "convenient store" as some Koreans do. Whatever.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: VanIslander on May 09, 2022, 01:45:50 am
I have never heard of "mart" in 33 years in Canada or after 50+ years and being a frequent movie viewer and an addict of reality comp shows (e.g., The Amazing Race, The Amazing Race Canada, Masterchef, Masterchef Canada, Masterchef Australia, Top Chef, Top Chef Canada). The ONLY place I have heard "a mart" uttered has been from a Korean in Korea (and a handful of posters on this site).

Teachers ought at least inform students about the word "store".
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on May 09, 2022, 05:51:25 am
In SA we don't use mart, we say supermarket or shop.

Shop makes more sense than store or mart since we say, we are going shopping.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Augustiner on May 09, 2022, 08:00:27 am

Teachers ought at least inform students about the word "store".

Teachers should also learn that the term "air-con" is not Konglish.  Otherwise, they'll look kind of silly when they try to correct all those who use British English and use the term air-con.  Ever been to Thailand?  They don't say "air-con" because of K-pop. 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: pkjh on May 09, 2022, 08:08:47 am
Teachers should also learn that the term "air-con" is not Konglish.  Otherwise, they'll look kind of silly when they try to correct all those who use British English and use the term air-con.  Ever been to Thailand?  They don't say "air-con" because of K-pop. 
Air-conditioning, air-con, or a/c are used where I grew up in Canada. Although a/c seems the most common.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Augustiner on May 09, 2022, 08:59:14 am
Air-conditioning, air-con, or a/c are used where I grew up in Canada. Although a/c seems the most common.

I always said a/c or air-conditioning in Toronto.  It wasn't until I went to Thailand that I first heard air-con.  The British influence in terms of tourism was much greater than North American, so air-con was the term that was picked up.  One Korean teacher told me they use air-con here because a/c sounds too much like "aish." 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: VanIslander on May 09, 2022, 10:35:35 am
I always said a/c or air-conditioning in Toronto.  It wasn't until I went to Thailand that I first heard air-con.
You went to Thailand before South Korea?

Quote
One Korean teacher told me they use air-con here because a/c sounds too much like "aish"
"AISH!"

Konglish is Korean not English. Remember that.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Augustiner on May 09, 2022, 10:46:21 am
You went to Thailand before South Korea?
"AISH!"

Konglish is Korean not English. Remember that.

What are you even talking about? You said the term air-con was Konglish.  It's not.  What does when I went to Thailand and Korea have to do with anything?  I'm saying the first time I heard the term "air-con" was in Thailand.   
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Augustiner on May 09, 2022, 10:48:43 am
And for the third time Van Islander, in NZ (and maybe Australia) a hot dog can be a sausage in a bun or on a stick. Not everywhere or everyone uses the word corndog. You know this...peope have told you this before, and yet you continue to think that only you are correct. It gets really tiring Van Islander.

Where I grew up in Canada we never used the term corndog. We called them Pogos after a popular brand.  I don't think I knew what a corndog was until I was in my teens. 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 09, 2022, 12:08:22 pm
I never heard the word "mart" before coming to SK in 2002. Is it a Brit thing?
Not even in this case?
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/73/Kwik-e-mart.png/200px-Kwik-e-mart.png)
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: hangook77 on May 09, 2022, 12:16:50 pm
Not even in this case?
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/73/Kwik-e-mart.png/200px-Kwik-e-mart.png)

Wal Mart. 

But yeah, we usually say grocery store or supermarket or something like that.  Superstore or Sobeys is an example of a grocery store or supermarket.  But Wal Mart is getting into groceries and Superstore has been creeping into Wal Mart's territory for years, albeit on a small scale.  (Damn, I miss President's Choice.)
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: VanIslander on May 09, 2022, 12:36:29 pm
1. I said at the start that mart is used in English in NAMES like Walmart.

2. If you don't believe "air con" is Konglish August, then please explain. I have never heard it outside this country. And i ain't no spring chicken.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Mr C on May 09, 2022, 12:41:55 pm
Wal Mart. 

But yeah, we usually say grocery store or supermarket or something like that.  Superstore or Sobeys is an example of a grocery store or supermarket.  But Wal Mart is getting into groceries

Huh?

Although Walmart is not classified as a supermarket it dominates the U.S. grocery market and is, by far, the largest food retailer in the country so we keep it as the number one grocery chain. Walmart has more than a 26% share of all groceries sold and in some locales it commands a 90% market share.  -- https://www.foodindustry.com/articles/top-10-grocers-in-the-united-states-2019/
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Augustiner on May 09, 2022, 12:47:06 pm
1. I said at the start that mart is used in English in NAMES like Walmart.

2. If you don't believe "air con" is Konglish August, then please explain. I have never heard it outside this country. And i ain't no spring chicken.

It's not a question of belief.  It's just a fact.  A/C is a North American thing.  Places that have had a bigger British influence use air con. 

First thing that popped up when I googled it from Oxford dictionary. 

air con
noun
short for air conditioning.

 I had only ever heard A/C growing up in Canada, but air con was the term used everywhere in Thailand and down through Malaysia and Singapore when I travelled to those places. 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Augustiner on May 09, 2022, 12:55:17 pm
Huh?

Although Walmart is not classified as a supermarket it dominates the U.S. grocery market and is, by far, the largest food retailer in the country so we keep it as the number one grocery chain. Walmart has more than a 26% share of all groceries sold and in some locales it commands a 90% market share.  -- https://www.foodindustry.com/articles/top-10-grocers-in-the-united-states-2019/

He should of specified he was speaking about Walmart in Canada and going back about 15 years when some Walmarts in Canada started getting into groceries.  At least back in 2008 there were regular Walmarts that didn't carry groceries and the Walmart Supercentres that did.  I remember it was big news when it happened.  We wanted our Walmarts to be on par with the big ones down in the states.  Today, I don't know if there's a difference.  The last time I visited a Walmart in Toronto it was one with groceries. 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: hangook77 on May 09, 2022, 12:56:45 pm
He should of specified he was speaking about Walmart in Canada and going back about 15 years when some Walmarts in Canada started getting into groceries.  At least back in 2008 there were regular Walmarts that didn't carry groceries and the Walmart Supercentres that did.  I remember it was big news when it happened.  We wanted our Walmarts to be on par with the big ones down in the states.  Today, I don't know if there's a difference.  The last time I visited a Walmart in Toronto it was one with groceries. 

I was in Korea then.  Saw a couple on my visits home though.  I think post 2013 or 2014.  Wal Mart was prompted to go full tilt when Target was coming into Canada.  They were building during my visit in 2013.  Took over an old Zellers and expanded it.  Next visit home was 2018 and it was already long gone. 

Funny enough I did visit one of those large Wal Marts for the first time in 2008 in the US during an American visit from Korea and a Sams Club too.  But the next time I was in one of these grocery Wal Marts was 10 years later in 2018 (in the Maritimes).  Quite a bit larger than the old Wal Marts.  Superstore is getting a run for it's money.  Though I still like some of the President's Choice products and some of the no label or no brand (I forget what they are called actually, yellow label.  No frills?)  Costco was rebuilt and moved to a much larger location with gas in my hometown too.  More competition than ever before it seems.  Blurred lines. 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Augustiner on May 09, 2022, 01:12:48 pm
Don't get me started on Walmarts in Korea.  When I first moved to Anyang and learned there was a Walmart at Pyeongcheon Station I was excited.  Until I went.  It was nothing like a Walmart in Canada, let alone the states. 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: VanIslander on May 09, 2022, 01:24:05 pm
... A/C is a North American thing...  I had only ever heard A/C growing up in Canada, but air con was the term used everywhere in Thailand and down through Malaysia and Singapore when I travelled to those places.
Agreed.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: hangook77 on May 09, 2022, 01:27:42 pm
Actually, given this is the best spring weather in years that isn't too polluted or dusty, etc - nor too hot with early humidity, I'd say the attitude towards Korea is better this year.  That and coming off a 4 day holiday which was great to get out and explore.  Now, if only Korean weather and conditions were like this more often..... 

Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: hangook77 on May 09, 2022, 01:32:40 pm
Don't get me started on Walmarts in Korea.  When I first moved to Anyang and learned there was a Walmart at Pyeongcheon Station I was excited.  Until I went.  It was nothing like a Walmart in Canada, let alone the states. 

Now that is going back.  They just were leaving as I was coming in.  I never got to visit one as they were only in a couple of big cities.  That and a French chain too.  I heard the French chain made good bread or something and then sold it to a Korean outfit, they changed the name and immediately started making crappy bread?  Carefour or something like that? 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Augustiner on May 09, 2022, 01:39:01 pm
Now that is going back.  They just were leaving as I was coming in.  I never got to visit one as they were only in a couple of big cities.  That and a French chain too.  I heard the French chain made good bread or something and then sold it to a Korean outfit, they changed the name and immediately started making crappy bread?  Carefour or something like that?

Yeah, the Carrefours were much better than the Walmarts for foreigners.  Home Plus/Tesco was better as well.  Carrefour used to carry things like taco kits and a French products like Coq au Vin.  Carrefours became Homevers and those got taken over by Home Plus. 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: VanIslander on May 09, 2022, 03:12:57 pm
The sky has been stellar clear this spring, the best or near it the last 20 years.

The temp is officially the 2nd warmest ever recorded for April, with Vancouver-like summer days of 20-22 C, with a breeze and a few clouds. Heck, it is like Auckland, New Zealand in summer!
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: L I on May 09, 2022, 03:28:29 pm
Thanks to Chinese lockdowns and people within Korea traveling less due to coronavirus fears, air pollution is lower than it's been in years. The Korean government has been being more environmentally friendly, too, from what they are saying. Good news! Itís a beautiful day. Blue skies!
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Liechtenstein on May 10, 2022, 01:33:23 pm
Canadians of a certain age will remember these great stores.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Bakeacake on May 10, 2022, 01:35:16 pm
Canadians of a certain age will remember these great stores.
not to mention Zellers!
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Augustiner on May 10, 2022, 01:48:49 pm
Canadians of a certain age will remember these great stores.

I think there are still a handful around in the U.S.  What about Woolco?  That was another place I'd do my Christmas shopping in Canada as a kid as well as at my favourite, Consumers Distributing. 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: kevingrabb on May 10, 2022, 01:50:34 pm
Look, I was a kid once, too but are we trying to tell ourselves that Kmart and Zellers were GREAT stores? Why?

Kids these days will never know the boundless pleasure of going to.............. Kmart?
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Bakeacake on May 10, 2022, 02:03:43 pm
zellers was just a different walmart in my opinion.  but they had a fantastic diner within the store. always went for lunch and shake with my grandparents.  perhaps its the nostalgia. when they closed out the store in my town, everything was insanely discounted to clear it out.  I got a bike for less than $10.  it was 75% off,  then that particular day they took an additional 90% off.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Augustiner on May 10, 2022, 02:18:12 pm
Look, I was a kid once, too but are we trying to tell ourselves that Kmart and Zellers were GREAT stores? Why?

Kids these days will never know the boundless pleasure of going to.............. Kmart?

I'm sure ten year olds  today could happily kill a few hours in a big Walmart.  For me as a kid I'd hang around Eaton's and Simpson's.  Both gone now.  But, Consumer's Distributing was unique.  You could go through the catalog and figure out what you wanted and then head down to the store, fill in the card and wait for them to go bring it out from the back.  They were well poised to adapt to online sales with their model of service. No sales staff.  Don't know how they ended up folding. 

Now, kids today will never know the boundless pleasure of going to a good record store.  Or a good book store in a lot of places.  Two things that, for me, the digital online world has not been able to replace satisfactorily. 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: VanIslander on May 11, 2022, 06:45:35 am
If you bought any clothes even shoes from Zellers it was obvious and was considered trash. I dunno why but in the late 1980's it was true. I did buy batteries and socks from there.

It was like the MADEINCHINA attempt to be quality. Everything there seemed a bit too low quality or a bit too cheap, or both.

Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: SPQR on May 11, 2022, 07:04:06 am
I'm sure ten year olds  today could happily kill a few hours in a big Walmart.  For me as a kid I'd hang around Eaton's and Simpson's.  Both gone now.  But, Consumer's Distributing was unique.  You could go through the catalog and figure out what you wanted and then head down to the store, fill in the card and wait for them to go bring it out from the back.  They were well poised to adapt to online sales with their model of service. No sales staff.  Don't know how they ended up folding. 

Now, kids today will never know the boundless pleasure of going to a good record store.  Or a good book store in a lot of places.  Two things that, for me, the digital online world has not been able to replace satisfactorily. 

I remember all those:

Eaton's
Simpson's
K-Mart
Sears
Radio Shack
Zellers
Consumers Distributing

I worked on the loading dock at Sears Victoria during uni. We had
great fun. I am pretty sure Sears Victoria is gone now. Radio Shack
was also great. We would browse there and gawk at all the base
CB radios we couldn't afford. Then if we wanted to buy anything
we would have to give our name and address. (123 ABC St.)
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Augustiner on May 11, 2022, 07:51:09 am
If you bought any clothes even shoes from Zellers it was obvious and was considered trash. I dunno why but in the late 1980's it was true. I did buy batteries and socks from there.

It was like the MADEINCHINA attempt to be quality. Everything there seemed a bit too low quality or a bit too cheap, or both.

Zellers and K-Mart were well known as cheap and lower quality places to shop.  No one wanted their parents to take them clothes shopping at a Zellers or K-Mart once they were an adolescent.  They didn't generally carry popular brands but had their own lines that usually had some has been celebrity or athlete as a partner. 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: pkjh on May 11, 2022, 09:55:03 am
Zellers and K-Mart were well known as cheap and lower quality places to shop.  No one wanted their parents to take them clothes shopping at a Zellers or K-Mart once they were an adolescent.  They didn't generally carry popular brands but had their own lines that usually had some has been celebrity or athlete as a partner. 
I remember Zellers, and K-Mart, had the cheaper orange tab Levis. My mother bought me a pair for junior high, wore it the fist day, and never wore them again. All those snide comments about being poor was too much for an insecure teen to take on the first day.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: VanIslander on May 11, 2022, 11:09:08 am
"$1.49 Tuesdays, $1.49 day Woodwards!"

I did inventory counts there twice during uni. Easy weekend money.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Augustiner on May 11, 2022, 11:37:38 am
I remember Zellers, and K-Mart, had the cheaper orange tab Levis. My mother bought me a pair for junior high, wore it the fist day, and never wore them again. All those snide comments about being poor was too much for an insecure teen to take on the first day.

Oh, yeah.  The dreaded orange tabs.  That was a big deal. 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: hangook77 on May 11, 2022, 01:54:26 pm
Oh, yeah.  The dreaded orange tabs.  That was a big deal. 

Fortunately, I was in a poorer area for a season after my parents were divorced.  No one cared about orange tabs until gr 9 and high school.  Funny, I went to the US on some bus trip to this large Christian rock campground festival in Pennsylvania and saw plenty of Americans wearing orange tab.  I guess it was no stigma to them.  But, I think Levis are always cheaper quality and a cheaper jean to them anyways.  The Canadian red tabs and Korean ones seemed to have a thicker denim and higher quality but you paid a higher price.  The American ones seemed more flimsy.  US ones were mostly made in Mexico and the others were made in Bangadesh or some other Asian country.  (Though they were domestically produced up until the 90's.)
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: pkjh on May 11, 2022, 02:29:20 pm
Fortunately, I was in a poorer area for a season after my parents were divorced.  No one cared about orange tabs until gr 9 and high school.  Funny, I went to the US on some bus trip to this large Christian rock campground festival in Pennsylvania and saw plenty of Americans wearing orange tab.  I guess it was no stigma to them.  But, I think Levis are always cheaper quality and a cheaper jean to them anyways.  The Canadian red tabs and Korean ones seemed to have a thicker denim and higher quality but you paid a higher price.  The American ones seemed more flimsy.  US ones were mostly made in Mexico and the others were made in Bangadesh or some other Asian country.  (Though they were domestically produced up until the 90's.)
Americans seem to enjoy much cheaper prices than most of the developed world. Also, it seems a lot of the lower ends goods can give flea markets in Nairobi, or Manila, a run for their money for low, low, prices. I remember when I first got to Korea, I'd hate shopping with Americans because they'd say how much cheaper something was in the US. I'm like it seems pretty similar to Canadian prices.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: hangook77 on May 11, 2022, 02:36:49 pm
Americans seem to enjoy much cheaper prices than most of the developed world. Also, it seems a lot of the lower ends goods can give flea markets in Nairobi, or Manila, a run for their money for low, low, prices. I remember when I first got to Korea, I'd hate shopping with Americans because they'd say how much cheaper something was in the US. I'm like it seems pretty similar to Canadian prices.

Really?  How things must have changed in Canada and here.  It use to be most things were cheaper here except clothes, electronics, and fruit.  Those were more expensive than Canada, but Canada was more expensive than the US for most things.

Of course the Americans had a good exchange rate then.  Like 2 million won was $2100 USD.  Nowadays it's $1550 USD or something ridiculous like that.  I guess bringing money into Korea will make it go further.  So, it may make Korea cheap to a temporary tourist but expensive if you live here sending money home to save or pay off debt. 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Bobby_Digital on August 23, 2022, 12:53:05 am
East Asia respect elders (they know more than young people).

In America, where they worship youth and look down on elders, society is collapsing. Anyhow, we wonít miss you when you go. You can take all your hatred for this country and simply get out of this country! Easy!! Itís good for everyone.


This respect of old people that is referenced constantly is a myth that seem to have turned to the gospel over time. I hardly ever see it in daily life. I see more respect for old people in London especially when you are neighbours.  All I see here is everyone for themselves.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Bobby_Digital on August 23, 2022, 01:09:35 am


Hua hin is great. Returned from there last night. All the sea front you'd ever need.

Your assessment is great. I have lived allover the place with my korean wife and we both agree we don't want to live in korea once old. Our overpriced flat with zero amenities will buy us a wonderful place in Chitlom (complete with pool and Gym)  and still leave plenty of change.

I have met several older Koreans that moved to Chiang Mai on my flights to Thailand.

I like the fact people in Thailand are always smiling even if impecunious and can even understand a joke without the need for me to attempt an explanation of the joke.

Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: L I on August 23, 2022, 08:35:50 am
Of course the Americans had a good exchange rate then.  Like 2 million won was $2100 USD.  Nowadays it's $1550 USD or something ridiculous like that.

Has dropped to $1494. 1,000 won is 74 cents. Takes 1,340 won to get one dollar. Even worse when taking into account the bank takes a cut when exchanging money.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Whygook on August 26, 2022, 08:41:35 pm
Hi all! First post. Returning to Korea for stint 2 in 2023. Be interesting to see how its changed in the 7 years since I left!
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: VanIslander on August 27, 2022, 12:47:17 pm
Hi all! First post. Returning to Korea for stint 2 in 2023. Be interesting to see how its changed in the 7 years since I left!
Welcome back!

Having been here 20 years, let me say the last 5 to 7 years: so much more elementary school student English swear words in use (the f bomb, s word), so much more need for a basket for students to put their smartphones in, so much less intolerance for not reading hangeul: wait staff in restaurants point at no-English and no pic menus on the wall and now EXPECT you to understand (a big difference from a decade ago); heck, English has disappeared from several consumer products. Also, the recent trend in delivery charges might make you decide to pick up instead.

Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: KoreaBoo on August 28, 2022, 02:58:13 am
Hi all! First post. Returning to Korea for stint 2 in 2023. Be interesting to see how its changed in the 7 years since I left!

Curious as to what made you decide to make the move back.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: VanIslander on August 28, 2022, 04:08:02 am
Welcome back!

Having been here 20 years, let me say the last 5 to 7 years: so much more elementary school student English swear words in use (the f bomb, s word), so much more need for a basket for students to put their smartphones in, so much less intolerance for not reading hangeul: wait staff in restaurants point at no-English and no pic menus on the wall and now EXPECT you to understand (a big difference from a decade ago); heck, English has disappeared from several consumer products. Also, the recent trend in delivery charges might make you decide to pick up instead.
Yet...stuednts who are motivated to look like they are doing well.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Adel on August 28, 2022, 06:13:48 am
Curious as to what made you decide to make the move back.

Who would have thought there could be more to life than the dollars of cents of any given occupation?  I guess he must be a loser right?
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Renma on August 29, 2022, 08:08:40 am
Welcome back!

Having been here 20 years, let me say the last 5 to 7 years: so much more elementary school student English swear words in use (the f bomb, s word), so much more need for a basket for students to put their smartphones in, so much less intolerance for not reading hangeul: wait staff in restaurants point at no-English and no pic menus on the wall and now EXPECT you to understand (a big difference from a decade ago); heck, English has disappeared from several consumer products. Also, the recent trend in delivery charges might make you decide to pick up instead.



How have you gotten by for 20 years without at least learning hangeul? You can learn it in a single evening.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Augustiner on August 29, 2022, 02:24:36 pm
Welcome back!

Having been here 20 years, let me say the last 5 to 7 years: so much more elementary school student English swear words in use (the f bomb, s word), so much more need for a basket for students to put their smartphones in, so much less intolerance for not reading hangeul: wait staff in restaurants point at no-English and no pic menus on the wall and now EXPECT you to understand (a big difference from a decade ago); heck, English has disappeared from several consumer products. Also, the recent trend in delivery charges might make you decide to pick up instead.

Fortunately, that is not what most people are dealing with, so you can pretty much dismiss it out of hand.  Kids were throwing the f-bomb and s-word around more at my schools a few years back.  Don't hear it as much anymore as I told them it was bad language in English and wouldn't be allowed.  Korean teachers emphasized the message. 

Have not not noticed any intolerance for people not knowing Hangeul, but since 95% of those who have been here more than a few months have made an effort to learn it and restaurants are probably the firsts test you pass, it's not an issue.  I certainly would expect Koreans to be surprised by any long termer that hasn't learned to read it, but not intolerant. They know we have slow learners sprinkled throughout our demographic as well. 

The biggest change might depend on where you lived.  A small rural community of Gyeonggi might now be a bustling new high rise community connected by subway.  Otherwise, in the short time you've been away things won't shock you. 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: VanIslander on August 29, 2022, 03:48:15 pm
A small rural community of Gyeonggi might now be a bustling new high rise community connected by subway.  Otherwise, in the short time you've been away things won't shock you. 
By rural one should not think Gyeonggi province whatsover. Urban sprawl, metro area, is a real thing.

Rural is where i'm at. It takes more than an hour to get to a city (if by city you mean more than 80,000 people). It takes longer to get to a city of a million or more. Gyeonggi may have "rural" areas, but aren't they minutes from Seoul?
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: VanIslander on August 29, 2022, 05:56:56 pm
Got it.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Whygook on August 29, 2022, 08:06:38 pm
Thanks for them welcomes back all!

Curious as to what made you decide to make the move back.

Lots of reasons! Iím from the UK, and itís been a pretty tough place to live the last few years, including right now. The cost of living is sky high, and Iím a lecturer at a UK uni so not on a bad salary.

Also my wife is Korean and we have 2 little uns born in England, so it will be good for them to get to know the Korean side of their heritage. Iím planning to teach uni here, and I speak OK Korean, so I hope to not have to deal with many of the issues Van Islander mentions, but letís see haha!

Iím also a bit of a Koreaboo If Iím honest. I loved it there. I think our quality of life will be better. Englands been ok for us, but Iíll be glad to get back to Korea for a while!
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: hangook77 on September 01, 2022, 03:01:54 pm
Thanks for them welcomes back all!

Lots of reasons! Iím from the UK, and itís been a pretty tough place to live the last few years, including right now. The cost of living is sky high, and Iím a lecturer at a UK uni so not on a bad salary.

Also my wife is Korean and we have 2 little uns born in England, so it will be good for them to get to know the Korean side of their heritage. Iím planning to teach uni here, and I speak OK Korean, so I hope to not have to deal with many of the issues Van Islander mentions, but letís see haha!

Iím also a bit of a Koreaboo If Iím honest. I loved it there. I think our quality of life will be better. Englands been ok for us, but Iíll be glad to get back to Korea for a while!

If you are on a tenure track professor path teaching actual subjects, you will make a decent salary and can live well as long as you live outside of Seoul which is crazy expensive (though housing prices seem to be rising all around the country the past 2 years or so).  If you are teaching esl, expect the same starting salary low to mid 2.0's with a much much higher living cost.  With a family, unless the wife gets a good paying job survival will be tough.  Korea isn't what it was.  Other wages have gone up but English teachers wages seem to have stayed the same or only gone up marginally while the cost of living here has shot through the roof.  You will find it very different from 7 years ago unless you are living with her folks to save money.  As for the UK if there is a regional university in a small town outside of London, I would assume you could live well, assuming same salary.  All this said, I had a friend teach at Sogang in Seoul and they wouldn't give him tenure so he went to a rural university working in the law department teaching US Common Law courses as US lawyer.  This rural university gave him tenure and treated him just like a Korean prof and put him on the same pay.  After a few years going up some levels he was making around 7 million won a month but was more like 4 or 5 million before that.  He actually left Korea 9 years ago to back to lawyering in the US.  But he was raking it in during a time that the living cost in Korea was cheaper than chips (as some of you other Commonwealth folks like to say).  My friend was doing the professor things starting out about 18 years ago and about 15 years ago switched to the rural university, and then left about 9 years ago.  It was a sweet gig while he had it.  Drove a BMW when they were more rare over here, especially outside of Seoul.  Nowadays, they are everywhere, it seems.  Heck even with the much higher living cost, the 7 million salary a month is still a darn good salary nowadays still.  It was even more back then with inflation factored in and the fact housing costs outside of Seoul use to be much much cheaper.  Anyways, if you are being hired as an actual prof then you should make enough coin to live well.  Though Seoul unis may not give tenure even with an F visa.  But maybe things have changed. 

If you do come over, best of luck.  Just know what you are up against in 2023 (by the time you get over here).  It is a very different country compared to what it was. 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Bakeacake on September 01, 2022, 03:08:38 pm
If you are on a tenure track professor path teaching actual subjects, you will make a decent salary and can live well as long as you live outside of Seoul which is crazy expensive (though housing prices seem to be rising all around the country the past 2 years or so).  If you are teaching esl, expect the same starting salary low to mid 2.0's with a much much higher living cost.  With a family, unless the wife gets a good paying job survival will be tough.  Korea isn't what it was.  Other wages have gone up but English teachers wages seem to have stayed the same or only gone up marginally while the cost of living here has shot through the roof.  You will find it very different from 7 years ago unless you are living with her folks to save money.  As for the UK if there is a regional university in a small town outside of London, I would assume you could live well, assuming same salary.  All this said, I had a friend teach at Sogang in Seoul and they wouldn't give him tenure so he went to a rural university working in the law department teaching US Common Law courses as US lawyer.  This rural university gave him tenure and treated him just like a Korean prof and put him on the same pay.  After a few years going up some levels he was making around 7 million won a month but was more like 4 or 5 million before that.  He actually left Korea 9 years ago to back to lawyering in the US.  But he was raking it in during a time that the living cost in Korea was cheaper than chips (as some of you other Commonwealth folks like to say).  My friend was doing the professor things starting out about 18 years ago and about 15 years ago switched to the rural university, and then left about 9 years ago.  It was a sweet gig while he had it.  Drove a BMW when they were more rare over here, especially outside of Seoul.  Nowadays, they are everywhere, it seems.  Heck even with the much higher living cost, the 7 million salary a month is still a darn good salary nowadays still.  It was even more back then with inflation factored in and the fact housing costs outside of Seoul use to be much much cheaper.  Anyways, if you are being hired as an actual prof then you should make enough coin to live well.  Though Seoul unis may not give tenure even with an F visa.  But maybe things have changed. 

If you do come over, best of luck.  Just know what you are up against in 2023 (by the time you get over here).  It is a very different country compared to what it was. 

no.

didn't you ask that your account be deleted?
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Billy Herrington on September 01, 2022, 03:45:32 pm
China could be an option. Once it opens up, of course.

Unfortunately, some of the older people on this board might be dead by then.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Whygook on September 01, 2022, 04:29:27 pm
If you are on a tenure track professor path teaching actual subjects, you will make a decent salary and can live well as long as you live outside of Seoul which is crazy expensive (though housing prices seem to be rising all around the country the past 2 years or so).  If you are teaching esl, expect the same starting salary low to mid 2.0's with a much much higher living cost.  With a family, unless the wife gets a good paying job survival will be tough.  Korea isn't what it was.  Other wages have gone up but English teachers wages seem to have stayed the same or only gone up marginally while the cost of living here has shot through the roof.  You will find it very different from 7 years ago unless you are living with her folks to save money.  As for the UK if there is a regional university in a small town outside of London, I would assume you could live well, assuming same salary.  All this said, I had a friend teach at Sogang in Seoul and they wouldn't give him tenure so he went to a rural university working in the law department teaching US Common Law courses as US lawyer.  This rural university gave him tenure and treated him just like a Korean prof and put him on the same pay.  After a few years going up some levels he was making around 7 million won a month but was more like 4 or 5 million before that.  He actually left Korea 9 years ago to back to lawyering in the US.  But he was raking it in during a time that the living cost in Korea was cheaper than chips (as some of you other Commonwealth folks like to say).  My friend was doing the professor things starting out about 18 years ago and about 15 years ago switched to the rural university, and then left about 9 years ago.  It was a sweet gig while he had it.  Drove a BMW when they were more rare over here, especially outside of Seoul.  Nowadays, they are everywhere, it seems.  Heck even with the much higher living cost, the 7 million salary a month is still a darn good salary nowadays still.  It was even more back then with inflation factored in and the fact housing costs outside of Seoul use to be much much cheaper.  Anyways, if you are being hired as an actual prof then you should make enough coin to live well.  Though Seoul unis may not give tenure even with an F visa.  But maybe things have changed. 

If you do come over, best of luck.  Just know what you are up against in 2023 (by the time you get over here).  It is a very different country compared to what it was.

Thanks for the response. The jobs I'm seeing pay more than low 2s. More like low 3s, but I also know there's quite often paid overtime at universities to boost the salary. My wife will work as well, and should make about the same. Unfortunately cost of living in the UK is just sky high right now. For example, we're paying about £1000 a month for our 2 lil uns to go to nursery 3 days a week. Its madness.

We're looking at South Seoul/south Gyeonggi, to be near family. Plan is to live with her family for a few months to find our feet, then depending on the housing market and whetehr we've settled in an area, either jeonse for two years then buy, or buy right off.

I know it's not perfect, but as I said I think our quality of life will be higher in Korea than the UK.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: gogators! on September 02, 2022, 12:44:05 am
look like someone opened the tap up all the way.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Billy Herrington on September 02, 2022, 10:10:56 am
So, that's two people who were done with this site that are back.  Hangook77, I always had you down as a poster of integrity.  I'm a bit disappointed that after all the big talk about asking/demanding  your account be deleted you're back with the same old message.  Was it the lack of response to your cringey whine on K  O  R share that made you return?  Anyways, we now definitively know that multiple threats of violence against multiple posters will not result in a paying member getting the boot.

Is that because the site needs the money or does the source code just not allow it?
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Kyndo on September 05, 2022, 10:13:51 am
Only sysadmin can ban accounts / IP addresses (although apparently lvl4 mods can delete user names and accounts?).

Speaking of, I just deleted comments from this particular thread because there were, like, a dozen reports on here, and it looked very similar to the kind of threads that caused several people (who were not involved in the arguments directly) to leave the site last semester.  :sad:

Please remember that this is a professional site and to keep flaming to a minimum.
Keep in mind that if a comment seems to be targeting you, it might sometimes be better to flag it for moderation rather than replying to it.

Apologies if the censorship seems excessive, but I think the topic subject is interesting, and felt that returning the thread to topic was preferable to locking it or whatever.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: hangook77 on September 05, 2022, 10:30:47 am
Thanks for the response. The jobs I'm seeing pay more than low 2s. More like low 3s, but I also know there's quite often paid overtime at universities to boost the salary. My wife will work as well, and should make about the same. Unfortunately cost of living in the UK is just sky high right now. For example, we're paying about £1000 a month for our 2 lil uns to go to nursery 3 days a week. Its madness.

We're looking at South Seoul/south Gyeonggi, to be near family. Plan is to live with her family for a few months to find our feet, then depending on the housing market and whetehr we've settled in an area, either jeonse for two years then buy, or buy right off.

I know it's not perfect, but as I said I think our quality of life will be higher in Korea than the UK.

Low 3's is acceptable if there is overtime and opportunities for extra teaching.  Also if you're wife can work sometimes or even part time, that can help.  Real estate in Seoul will require a very high income and even many parts of Gyeonggi.  But if you can live further away from Seoul it will let you save on that front.  But I would say combined income closer to 6 mil to have a crack at some decent real estate in Seoul for a newer family aprtment maybe more.  If you don't mind renting with high rent and a mdoerate deposit or a high deposit and low to moderate rent, that can work too.  As for the UK, I don't know much about it but hear London is a nightmare.  If a uni with a small town in the northern part of England is cheaper, that may be your best bet assuming same salary.  I think you do have your heart set on here and it can be made to work.  Living with your wife's folks for a few months until you get on your feet is the best plan. 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: hangook77 on September 05, 2022, 10:37:00 am
Only sysadmin can ban accounts / IP addresses (although apparently lvl4 mods can delete user names and accounts?).

Speaking of, I just deleted comments from this particular thread because there were, like, a dozen reports on here, and it looked very similar to the kind of threads that caused several people (who were not involved in the arguments directly) to leave the site last semester.  :sad:

Please remember that this is a professional site and to keep flaming to a minimum.
Keep in mind that if a comment seems to be targeting you, it might sometimes be better to flag it for moderation rather than replying to it.

Apologies if the censorship seems excessive, but I think the topic subject is interesting, and felt that returning the thread to topic was preferable to locking it or whatever.
  So, maybe it is time to focus on conversations about the topic at hand.  BTW, I heard you had Corona.  Hope you are feeling better.  (I had the Omicron? in the spring.  Not terrible but not great either.) 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Kyndo on September 05, 2022, 11:19:24 am
Thanks.
It was alright. A week of 38.x temps, and headaches.
Nobody else in the apartment caught it, which was great, and justified all the pretty inconvenient precautions we took to make it that way.
Got a lot of reading done, and did a lot of house cleaning. Gonna wait another week or so (just to be super safe) and then start hosting stuff again!
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Bakeacake on September 05, 2022, 02:35:33 pm
oh man!  I got a fun personal message sent to me from the 77 himself but then he blocked me before i could respond.  It just hurts my feelings so much. Like a spirit with unfinished business. Ghosted by the king
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Augustiner on September 05, 2022, 02:55:46 pm
oh man!  I got a fun personal message sent to me from the 77 himself but then he blocked me before i could respond.  It just hurts my feelings so much. Like a spirit with unfinished business. Ghosted by the king

Throw it up.  If he sent it, it's fair game.  Hilarious that he sent it and then blocked you.  He wants to have the last word.  What a little kid. 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Bakeacake on September 05, 2022, 03:02:33 pm
Throw it up.  If he sent it, it's fair game.  Hilarious that he sent it and then blocked you.  He wants to have the last word.  What a little kid. 

i guess im just happy to be part of his signature now.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Bakeacake on September 05, 2022, 03:09:58 pm
back on track though,  I got here a long time ago, and it was a lonesome place originally. Im glad to have found a niche in a special place that allows me ample time to explore. Ive seen most of what Korea has to offer, from the beautiful east coast beaches to the mountains in the north. The island pocked south and the muddy tidal waters along the west. I have no use for big cities so i prefer to spend my time exploring the quieter areas. Theres a beautiful lake area and river ive been meaning to get to called Okjeong Ho  (옥장호). I'm happy to be in such a lovely country with some peace and quiet between the chaos,.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Augustiner on September 05, 2022, 03:13:02 pm
i guess im just happy to be part of his signature now.

Thanks, I didn't even notice he had changed that.  I'm glad I finally got added to the list.  He's really throwing a days long tantrum.  I like how he was on here on Saturday and Sunday calling a load of people here losers that have no life. 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Whygook on September 05, 2022, 04:56:42 pm
back on track though,  I got here a long time ago, and it was a lonesome place originally. Im glad to have found a niche in a special place that allows me ample time to explore. Ive seen most of what Korea has to offer, from the beautiful east coast beaches to the mountains in the north. The island pocked south and the muddy tidal waters along the west. I have no use for big cities so i prefer to spend my time exploring the quieter areas. Theres a beautiful lake area and river ive been meaning to get to called Okjeong Ho  (옥장호). I'm happy to be in such a lovely country with some peace and quiet between the chaos,.

Sounds similar to what I like to do. I explored a good bit of Korea in stint 1, especially the mountainous regions as I love hiking. Any places in particular you'd recommend? Pleasant suprises? I am excited to get back exploring. TIA
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: gogators! on September 05, 2022, 09:24:58 pm
Korea is a good place to be, if everything works out for you.


I think that could apply to most anywhere.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: 745sticky on September 06, 2022, 09:56:09 am
i guess im just happy to be part of his signature now.

wait, im up on there too  :laugh: huh, i always thought i took it kinda easy on him compared to the rest of you guys
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Mr C on September 06, 2022, 10:21:40 am
wait, im up on there too  :laugh: huh, i always thought i took it kinda easy on him compared to the rest of you guys

Well, call me wangtta!
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Renma on September 06, 2022, 10:45:13 am
(https://www.themarysue.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/lord-of-the-rings-fellowship-of-the-ring.jpg)

the fellowship of the 'trolls'
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Mithras on September 06, 2022, 12:17:16 pm
:laugh: :laugh:

When hangook is still in the know and replies in his signature even though he said he blocked all the haters.

(https://i.imgflip.com/zy881.jpg)
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: JonVoightCar on September 06, 2022, 12:29:19 pm
Question- What's the waygook.org policy on parody accounts?
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Bakeacake on September 06, 2022, 01:56:13 pm
Only sysadmin can ban accounts / IP addresses (although apparently lvl4 mods can delete user names and accounts?).

Speaking of, I just deleted comments from this particular thread because there were, like, a dozen reports on here, and it looked very similar to the kind of threads that caused several people (who were not involved in the arguments directly) to leave the site last semester.  :sad:

Please remember that this is a professional site and to keep flaming to a minimum.
Keep in mind that if a comment seems to be targeting you, it might sometimes be better to flag it for moderation rather than replying to it.

Apologies if the censorship seems excessive, but I think the topic subject is interesting, and felt that returning the thread to topic was preferable to locking it or whatever.

can I flag a profile for directly calling me a loser and poor?

on every thing a person posts, it includes a passage about me being a loser.
it just hurts my feeling so much.  its causing me such distress.
this person was just given a month long ban, then the first thing they did when they came back was call me a loser.
im crying.


Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Kyndo on September 06, 2022, 02:51:52 pm
can I flag a profile for directly calling me a loser and poor?

on every thing a person posts, it includes a passage about me being a loser.
Um, I'd think so, yes.
If it's a no go in a comment, I'd assume the same would be true for a sig.
I'll see if I can get it removed (I don't think I can do it directly, as us mod noobs can't edit profiles in any way).

Question- What's the waygook.org policy on parody accounts?
It depends on how funny they are.  :smiley:
But seriously, if one really offends you, you might be able to shut it down by talking to the right folk.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: JonVoightCar on September 06, 2022, 04:23:23 pm
What a good idea Marti! I forgot that there were two of you for a time. Perfect timing if anyone wanted to try  ;D
I was thinking of starting up one...

And in the spirit of fair play, I encourage 'Fake DeMart' to return
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: hangook77 on September 07, 2022, 01:41:58 pm
It goes in phases.

Of course in the beginning I went through shock for days and weeks, I didn't know how to operate here at all and wondered if I'd made a mistake.

Then I went through a honeymoon period for some months in which nothing bothered me, everything was fascinating.

By year 2 I started to leave behind Itaewon, bars and socializing exclusively with other foreigners. I started to find my niche with pursuits and activities that provided long term interest to me in the country. But I was still mostly uncomfortable around Koreans.

Then the angry phase lasted several years, in which I was usually annoyed by Korean behaviour. The  stares, every little cultural difference and microagression got under my skin. I could not stand the apparent racism and rudeness.

Gradually I started to have more Korean friends than foreigners. Started to feel more  at home.

Now, years later, I feel much more settled and enjoy being here a lot. I like Koreans, I have a general appreciation for their old fashioned politeness and adaptability. I think the younger generation shows great promise, they are a versatile people and I can see a whole lot of ways in which Korea is better than the west.


You stayed several years after being annoyed?  I was in a blur my first year and still had some magic the second as I discovered new interests, etc.  I think all the free time from schools and education offices not being strict gave me time to travel, cycle, hike, etc.  Left after my last class and little desk warming, extra days off, etc.  So, it was great.  I seemed able to date quite a bit though women kept it discrete.  But I noticed after 2 and a half years to 4 years or so, it seemed the racism was stepping up, the micro aggressions, etc.  The cockblocking, dirty looks, etc.  It got to the point by 2010 though I was living in a bigger city by this time that I was ready to leave.  I was almost getting into fistfights and I did start yelling at some people quite a bit and flipping off folks.  I didn't seem to notice the racism as much when I first came.  Maybe the Korean media was stepping it up with lots of fake news about foreigners and Free Trade and beef.  Not sure but it really ramped up by 2009 and 2010, though it had been around earlier I later heard.  (Apparently some veterans told me the racism ramped up by 2002 and elected Noh Mun HYun on anti Americanism but this was before my time.) 

But as soon as I was ready to finish my contract and leave, I got sent to the best school I ever got sent to.  We started getting sent to one school for 2 or 3 years.  So, I went to this middle school which treated me well and as an equal.  No racism.  Teachers all very nice and supportive of each other.  Principal was a former English teacher who really liked me.  We always went on trips together the whole school renting a bus on a Friday or an exam afternoon and we always visited some unique spot.  One Saturday we went up to Paju English Village and explored a nearby art center.  Best school I ever had.  2011ish?  So, I renewed.  Principal practically begged and kids did too.  I went to some decent schools after this though not as good as this one.  Then started going to multiple schools again.    I was close to leaving because I had enough even though it was good money at the time (compared to now).   MY schools have been decent though I did have a rough year recently with some hard core contract obsessed teachers which were annoying.  Most Koreans on the street are nice enough or indifferent.  I don't sense much racism anymore.  Only down side is the pay and sometimes the job can be too strict or micromanaging (well for many) compared to the past. 

Korea is a very different country in 2022 versus 2006 that's for sure.  Some pros and some cons.   It was cool being in the countryside and being "rare" .  As I started to pick up some Korean, I'd bike in the countryside and some older Koreans would talk to me in Korean.  Sometimes, even biked in a village (Maeul) and they'd be sharing food and would motion me over.  We had to chat in Korean.  (No smart phone translation then.)  They were surprised to see this white guy pop up and speak some basic Korean with them.  It was really cool.  Great memories.  I really miss that.  It is easier now as so many know English or some basic English words.  Combined with simple Korean and smart phone translation, it is much easier to get things done and communicate now.  This was like 2008 and 2009.  The good old days and the bad old days at the same time....
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Renma on September 07, 2022, 02:41:05 pm
No....don't think of the children!  :huh:

 :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: KimDuHan on September 08, 2022, 01:16:45 am
Korea is a young or retired persons game! In between make your money!

When youíre young and dumb party it up and make friends and babies.

When youíre old open a niche business and reap in the dough.

In between leave raise a family have a career and donít live on 2.1 mil won!
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: VanIslander on September 08, 2022, 02:04:51 am
Korea is a young or retired persons game! In between make your money!
Um,... that is a very Korean perspective imo.

I feel sorry for the retired Koreans I meet. They ain't thriving joyfully like my dad's buds have, playing golf, doing volunteer work, ... smiling and walking with pep. I just don't see it here.

As for youth: they plod to school on the sidewalk, there are a lot of sad sacks; a few master the wave and cheerfully own expectations, but, most do not. The happiest-looking Koreans are the tattooed twentysomething females working retail and the young men on scooters. ... Sad, but true.

Quote
When youíre young and dumb party it up and make friends and babies. When youíre old open a niche business and reap in the dough. In between leave raise a family have a career and donít live on 2.1 mil won!
Um,... where is THIS coming from? It seems alien to me. Are you tapping into a Korean undercurrent? *shrug* dunno. Stunned.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Wheygook69 on September 08, 2022, 10:13:18 am
When I first came in 2007 I was doing numbers. Believe me. Everyone told me I was handsome, no matter where I went. I peaked back then and I haven't stopped peaking since. I get lots of messages on the dating app I am on and even some agree to meet me, so I know I am doing well.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Chinguetti on September 08, 2022, 11:11:09 am
I've definitely become a lot more cynical than I originally was. I can't blame all of that on Korea, though, I think it's just a natural part of aging and being slightly cynical to begin with.

Korea definitely sped that process up for me, though. My life is a circus here, this is about survival, lol.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Augustiner on September 08, 2022, 12:16:58 pm
Um,... that is a very Korean perspective imo.

I feel sorry for the retired Koreans I meet. They ain't thriving joyfully like my dad's buds have, playing golf, doing volunteer work, ... smiling and walking with pep. I just don't see it here.

As for youth: they plod to school on the sidewalk, there are a lot of sad sacks; a few master the wave and cheerfully own expectations, but, most do not. The happiest-looking Koreans are the tattooed twentysomething females working retail and the young men on scooters. ... Sad, but true.
Um,... where is THIS coming from? It seems alien to me. Are you tapping into a Korean undercurrent? *shrug* dunno. Stunned.

The young men on scooters with the death wish that have life prospects so bleak they don't care if they even make it to the next smoke break rendezvous spot?  Yeah, they're just radiating joy. 
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Bakeacake on September 08, 2022, 01:56:52 pm
Yeah, he also sent me some bike photos around where he lived some time ago, and a plea not to tell anyone else or others might be able to identify where he was...he said that he was a very cautious and private person  :huh:. That was when he was speaking to me. Good photos actually, and as much as it's fun giving a bit back to him, I won't publish details. That would be too uncool and wrong.

so would you suggest I delete my previous comment?  I dont think a province is very revealing? as well as, it was deduced from images posted publicly.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Wheygook69 on September 08, 2022, 02:23:32 pm
Korea is a young or retired persons game! In between make your money!

When youíre young and dumb party it up and make friends and babies.

When youíre old open a niche business and reap in the dough.

In between leave raise a family have a career and donít live on 2.1 mil won!
Korea is doing well for me and I'm 40. I still get stares from people. Life is good. I even have to be careful not to walk on the footpath by the river that goes under the bridge because when I do, all the people lean over to wave at me and I don't want them to hurt themselves.
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Renma on September 08, 2022, 02:45:20 pm
Korea is doing well for me and I'm 40. I still get stares from people. Life is good. I even have to be careful not to walk on the footpath by the river that goes under the bridge because when I do, all the people lean over to wave at me and I don't want them to hurt themselves.

Weren't you and your evil twin born in '74? I think 40 is a push haha
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Billy Herrington on September 10, 2022, 05:20:02 pm
What was it like to be here during the Japanese occupation?
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Wheygook69 on September 10, 2022, 08:04:34 pm
What was it like to be here during the Japanese occupation?
Talked to some old dude. He said the free housing the Japanese provided to all the Americans was better than some of the hagwon housing he's seen..
Title: Re: How has your attitude to Korea changed?
Post by: Billy Herrington on September 10, 2022, 08:52:32 pm
That's actually a good one.