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All about South Korea => Korea Newsroom => Topic started by: SPQR on December 10, 2021, 11:11:18 pm

Title: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: SPQR on December 10, 2021, 11:11:18 pm

Let's kick this thing in the ass.

Booster shots to be given after three months

https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: VanIslander on December 10, 2021, 11:58:41 pm
Hey man. Jab baby jab!
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: VanIslander on December 11, 2021, 05:00:28 pm
Hilarious.

The vaccines don't work.
1. They clearly don't prevent re-infection.
2. They don't reduce the infection rate compared to the vaccinated.
3. They DO reduce the mortality rate and hospitalization rate.

So, personally they help but socially we shouldn't g.a.f. what they choose (jab or no jab).

Wear your dang mask and social distance 2 meters. Thank you.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Sagi Keun on December 11, 2021, 11:14:23 pm
Hey man. Jab baby jab!

If you want to throw money at big pharma every sixth months..


Revealed: How Pfizer blackmails countries for shots
Pfizer can stop countries from speaking about contracts, block vaccine donations, unilaterally change delivery schedules & demand public assets as collateral.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYIJxoh7gqw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYIJxoh7gqw)

Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: L I on December 11, 2021, 11:33:43 pm
There are many brands, not just Pfizer. No one has a monopoly.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Chinguetti on December 12, 2021, 01:11:23 am
I've already signed up for mine, scheduled for the end of January.

I had a hard time scheduling my initial vaccinations (both first and second shots), had to get help from someone using a workaround.

But this time it was super smooth, I didn't have any issues at all. Seems like they ironed out some of the issues from before.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Chinguetti on December 12, 2021, 02:04:06 am
I feel pretty good, actually.  :azn: Reminds me of when I had to get flu boosters every year back in school.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: VanIslander on December 12, 2021, 04:49:37 am
Less than half of Russians are vaccinated, 60% of Americans, under two-thirds of the usually long-living Swiss.

But Japan and England lead the world. What gives? (Will they go to the dentist now?)
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Kyndo on December 13, 2021, 07:17:29 am
But Japan and England lead the world. What gives? (Will they go to the dentist now?)

Aaaaakshully (https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/191/035/135.png)...



Interestingly, that the British have poor dental hygiene when compared to others (ie Americans) is a bit outdated (it was true back in the 70s and 80s).
https://grin.deltadentalins.com/archive/2018/summer/2-word-answers-british-teeth-vs-american-teeth/

One of the contributing factors to this stereotype might be that Americans are on average *slightly* more likely to do aesthetic treatments that are unrelated to dental health such as whitening and bleaching.

When looking purely at tooth health, the UK is actually better off, with the numbers in a congregate study showing that the average number of missing teeth for English participants is at 6.97, but 7.31 for North Americans.

 :wink:
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: hangook77 on December 13, 2021, 01:49:14 pm
Yay.  I will wait for it with glee and anticipation.  I really can't wait for the 4th and 5th shot too.....
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Chester Jim on December 13, 2021, 04:57:30 pm
1. They clearly don't prevent re-infection.
2. They don't reduce the infection rate compared to the vaccinated.
3. They DO reduce the mortality rate and hospitalization rate.

So, personally they help but socially we shouldn't g.a.f. what they choose (jab or no jab).

Wear your dang mask and social distance 2 meters. Thank you.
Bs.
Everything they have said was a lie so I don’t know why you believe this.
Look at the populations where they are vaccinated and when they got vaccinated and things seem to have gotten worse after vaccination.  It’s called pathogenic priming….

“Over a period of seven months preceding October 2021, some 60 percent of those 2,542 Brits who died from COVID were double vaccinated. Of people hospitalized in the UK for COVID in the last seven months, 157,000 were double-vaccinated.52 There were more per capita deaths among the “fully” vaccinated than the unvaccinated.53 The UK government’s latest Office for National Statistics report on mortality rates by COVID vaccination status shows that for age-adjusted mortality rate, the death rate by October 2021 was higher among the vaccinated than the unvaccinated.54“
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Chester Jim on December 13, 2021, 05:01:03 pm
The unvaccinated might also include those with only one jab. So someone who dies and just had one jab is listed as unvaccinated. 
The Pfizer 6 month trial was a friggin joke. 

In Israel, an increase in hospitalizations accompanied the epidemic’s ferocious resumption. The vaccinated represented the majority of those hospitalized. By the end of July, some 71 percent of the 118 seriously and critically ill Israelis were fully vaccinated! This proportion of seriously ill people vaccinated is much higher than the proportion of fully vaccinated people: 61 percent. According to Israel’s official report, August deaths were more frequent among fully vaccinated patients (679) than among non-vaccinated patients (390), belying official claims of a protective effect of the vaccine against dying. On August 5, 2021, Dr. Kobi Haviv, director of the Herzog Hospital in Jerusalem, reported on Channel 13 News that 95 percent of severely ill COVID-19 patients are fully vaccinated, and that vaccinated Israelis make up 85 percent to 90 percent of COVID-related hospitalizations overall.57 As the doubly vaccinated overwhelmed Israeli hospitals, the government announced in August a new plan for coping with its “Pandemic of the Vaccinated.” Israel said it will “update” its definition of “full vaccination” to require three, or even four, injections. “We are updating what it means to be vaccinated,” said Israel’s COVID czar, Salman Zarka.“
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: JNM on December 13, 2021, 06:46:00 pm
The unvaccinated might also include those with only one jab. So someone who dies and just had one jab is listed as unvaccinated. 
The Pfizer 6 month trial was a friggin joke. 

In Israel, an increase in hospitalizations accompanied the epidemic’s ferocious resumption. The vaccinated represented the majority of those hospitalized. By the end of July, some 71 percent of the 118 seriously and critically ill Israelis were fully vaccinated! This proportion of seriously ill people vaccinated is much higher than the proportion of fully vaccinated people: 61 percent. According to Israel’s official report, August deaths were more frequent among fully vaccinated patients (679) than among non-vaccinated patients (390), belying official claims of a protective effect of the vaccine against dying. On August 5, 2021, Dr. Kobi Haviv, director of the Herzog Hospital in Jerusalem, reported on Channel 13 News that 95 percent of severely ill COVID-19 patients are fully vaccinated, and that vaccinated Israelis make up 85 percent to 90 percent of COVID-related hospitalizations overall.57 As the doubly vaccinated overwhelmed Israeli hospitals, the government announced in August a new plan for coping with its “Pandemic of the Vaccinated.” Israel said it will “update” its definition of “full vaccination” to require three, or even four, injections. “We are updating what it means to be vaccinated,” said Israel’s COVID czar, Salman Zarka.“

Source?
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr C on December 13, 2021, 06:59:56 pm
The unvaccinated might also include those with only one jab. So someone who dies and just had one jab is listed as unvaccinated. 
The Pfizer 6 month trial was a friggin joke. 

In Israel, an increase in hospitalizations accompanied the epidemic’s ferocious resumption. The vaccinated represented the majority of those hospitalized. By the end of July, some 71 percent of the 118 seriously and critically ill Israelis were fully vaccinated! This proportion of seriously ill people vaccinated is much higher than the proportion of fully vaccinated people: 61 percent. According to Israel’s official report, August deaths were more frequent among fully vaccinated patients (679) than among non-vaccinated patients (390), belying official claims of a protective effect of the vaccine against dying. On August 5, 2021, Dr. Kobi Haviv, director of the Herzog Hospital in Jerusalem, reported on Channel 13 News that 95 percent of severely ill COVID-19 patients are fully vaccinated, and that vaccinated Israelis make up 85 percent to 90 percent of COVID-related hospitalizations overall.57 As the doubly vaccinated overwhelmed Israeli hospitals, the government announced in August a new plan for coping with its “Pandemic of the Vaccinated.” Israel said it will “update” its definition of “full vaccination” to require three, or even four, injections. “We are updating what it means to be vaccinated,” said Israel’s COVID czar, Salman Zarka.“

Meanwhile, in the sourced news, we have this, albeit a couple of months later:

Quote
The number of patients hospitalized in serious condition due to the coronavirus dropped to 460 on Friday, the lowest recorded number in nearly two months.
Of those patients, 349 were unvaccinated, 68 received only two of the three vaccine doses, and 29 patients had received all three shots.
- https://www.timesofisrael.com/serious-covid-cases-hit-lowest-rate-in-nearly-2-months-most-are-unvaccinated/
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: JNM on December 13, 2021, 07:10:45 pm
Now look at those numbers in terms of the population they represent. 349 people from 30% of the population compared to 97 people from a 70% group.

Edit: corrected vaccine uptake %
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr C on December 13, 2021, 07:31:17 pm
Now look at those numbers in terms of the population they represent. 349 people from 10%(?)  of the population compared to 97 people from a 90% group.

Yeah, I didn't think about really needing to point out the huge vulnerability of the unvaccinated in those stats, but I didn't consider the person I was responding to.  But, tbh, he is impervious to facts and logic. 
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Kyndo on December 14, 2021, 07:34:46 am
Source?
Looks like he's quoting from a book called "The Real Anthoy Fauci: Bill Gates, Big Pharma, and the Global War on Democracy and Public health (https://ebooksoff.xyz/ebooks/The-Real-Anthony-Fauci.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3Yalm1PIe8PsTjScK3mYOAtaR9edjsw-Tv6xfXHQojYW4e1_DA2ZcxS_0), writter by Robert F. Kennedy Jr (a prominent anti-vaxxer and an ardent promoter of the vaccine-autism link).
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 14, 2021, 09:01:27 am
If Omicron is as mild as is cautiously being suggested, i.e. flu or below like levels of mortality, then the best thing we could do is NOT fight it and let it run rampant and become the dominant strain and hopefully replace Delta.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Chinguetti on December 14, 2021, 09:50:52 am
I should start quoting more often so that my posts have context if the post I'm responding to gets deleted. :/
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Kyndo on December 16, 2021, 12:38:31 pm
Reminder: if you have properly sourced information, or are expressing an opinion, that's great!
But please post unsubstantiated anti-vaxx conspiracy theories elsewhere.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: SPQR on December 16, 2021, 01:48:54 pm
Really?  I thought Waygook was an official QAnon outlet.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: hangook77 on December 16, 2021, 01:54:35 pm
Reminder: if you have properly sourced information, or are expressing an opinion, that's great!
But please post unsubstantiated anti-vaxx conspiracy theories elsewhere.

An opinion and people's personal testimony about what happened to them after taking the shot is not misinformation unless you are directly calling the people with the injuries liars and are making the claim that they are faking their condition as well as their stay in hospital.  Maybe their doctors and the medical staff are lying?  Perhaps, the nurses who told my coteacher that many people are not healing from injuries well since taking the vaccine are lying too?  Maybe my Korean co teacher is lying to me when she told me that last month?  Perhaps, she is faking her own injury not healing?  Is it misinformation then?  Seems more a convenient excuse to dismiss something you can't debate.  But until you answer the question about whether or not victims are lying or not, the debate will continue.  To my knowledge none of these people have used Qanon or any other site or got their approval to report on their injuries and bad reactions from taking the shot. 

Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: SPQR on December 16, 2021, 02:35:31 pm

Qanon told them to lie in a hospital bed?


Haha, that's very punny. Too bad you're not.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: tylerthegloob on December 16, 2021, 02:40:49 pm
i'm sure it was unintentional
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Kyndo on December 16, 2021, 02:51:19 pm
CNN, the national media, and most of the global media will stick to the narrative and will not report on anything that goes against their narrative.
This is a conspiracy theory.
When used to push anti-vaxx propaganda, it can be potentially harmful. Don't post stuff like this.
 
As we know, the same hedge funds and groups that own parts of big pharma, also own big media, have slices of big tech, etc.  One big happy family.
While this may be factually correct, the implication that these hedge funds are somehow using media to bring profit to "big pharma" is a conspiracy theory.
When used to push anti-vaxx propaganda, it can be potentially harmful. Don't post comments like this, please.

Now, that said, sometimes local media will still report on things fairly and honestly.  This ABC affiliate has a story....
That local news (in a region renown for its strong political views on vaccines in general) is more honest or fair on these kind of topics is, if not misinformation, then at least hopelessly naive.
Probably not a conspiracy theory, though.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: hangook77 on December 16, 2021, 03:03:13 pm
This is a conspiracy theory.
When used to push anti-vaxx propaganda, it can be potentially harmful. Don't post stuff like this.
  While this may be factually correct, the implication that these hedge funds are somehow using media to bring profit to "big pharma" is a conspiracy theory.
When used to push anti-vaxx propaganda, it can be potentially harmful. Don't post comments like this, please.
That local news (in a region renown for its strong political views on vaccines in general) is more honest or fair on these kind of topics is, if not misinformation, then at least hopelessly naive.
Probably not a conspiracy theory, though.

You removed the local news clip.  WHich means that information can't get out.  Currently only one narrative is allowed to be pushed.  You also are showing a willingness to censor anything that doesn't fit your narrative.  A cop out excuse.  The woman was in the hospital bed after she took the vaccine.  Just come out and say she is a liar and faking her injury if that's what you want to use as an excuse to further your OPINION and your NARRAITIVE.  Truth must be dimissed and censored at all costs if it goes against your narrative.  It is an abuse of your moderator powers.  I posted an ABC news link and not a Qanon site.  (I have no clue what they are saying.) 

Local news doesn't care about your political opinions.  They just report what is going on in the community.  But again, it is an inconvenience to your belief system.  So, make up an excuse and silence it. 
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Kyndo on December 16, 2021, 03:11:41 pm
Please read the above comment again.

The video was fine, the rest of your commentary was not.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 16, 2021, 04:50:00 pm
This is a conspiracy theory.
When used to push anti-vaxx propaganda, it can be potentially harmful. Don't post stuff like this.
  While this may be factually correct, the implication that these hedge funds are somehow using media to bring profit to "big pharma" is a conspiracy theory.
When used to push anti-vaxx propaganda, it can be potentially harmful
While this is true, this is also really difficult. The idea that various corporations and interests use the media for profit/influence certainly isn't a controversial or factually untrue position. The idea that pharmaceutical companies have engaged in action, either through  the media or through deceptive studies and practices with their products to generate products is also non-controversial and factually true. It is also true that this isn't isolated, but rather more of a pattern of behavior.

At the same time, while there is no direct evidence of that regarding COVID, it certainly is...questionable that such speculation should be wholly out of bounds. We're not talking a conspiracy on the order of fake moon landings, more a conspiracy that fits a pattern of previous behavior. Would it be a conspiracy theory to suggest that something was amiss in the latest event in the Mexican Drug War and some colonel or minister has been bought off by one of the Cartels?

In this case, I actually think that random crackpot links should be censored (as opposed to say, links from news reports regarding COVID numbers or outbreaks or statistics or claims by doctors). However, if hangook77 just wants to engage in personal speculation, conjecture and theorizing, and properly labels it as such (which given his eye for detail, will most certainly NOT happen, making this moot), then I think that MIGHT be permissible regarding say, pharmaceutical companies, their motives, and any possible manipulation they MIGHT be engaging in. However, at no point can he claim it to be a fact and not speculation and the moment he does or try to argue it as anything but speculation, it should be taken down.

I guess the point is this- Hangook77 you probably CAN post your thoughts, but you need to learn how to use disclaimers and to make your point within certain guidelines. You CAN do it. But you need an eye for detail and to have the requisite level of discipline and patience in your writing in order to do it. If you lack that, then you have no one but yourself to blame when your post gets taken down.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: gogators! on December 16, 2021, 06:15:22 pm
If Omicron is as mild as is cautiously being suggested, i.e. flu or below like levels of mortality, then the best thing we could do is NOT fight it and let it run rampant and become the dominant strain and hopefully replace Delta.
That's a mighty big if to bet your life on. And even then your proposal is far from sound.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 16, 2021, 07:24:27 pm
That's a mighty big if to bet your life on. And even then your proposal is far from sound.

If you're under the age of 55 it's comparable to making a bet with any activity that has a very small level of risk such as extreme sports, being a delivery driver or driving a car in the 1960s.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: gogators! on December 17, 2021, 02:47:37 am

If you're under the age of 55 it's comparable to making a bet with any activity that has a very small level of risk such as extreme sports, being a delivery driver or driving a car in the 1960s.
Can you show me your data? What specific extreme sports are being referred to? What type of delivery driver and for which delivery companies? When in the 1960s--before or after most cars had seat belts? What make and manufacturer of cars are being referred to?

I think what we have here is another of your WACGs.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: hangook77 on December 17, 2021, 10:42:51 am
Please read the above comment again.

The video was fine, the rest of your commentary was not.


The video was fine, yet you removed it? 

Your opinion is fine and mine is not.  I get it now.  You are judge jury and executioner.  Either way, I am not taking a defective vaccine that has made many people sick and whose long term effects are unknown.  If you want to line up for the 'experiment' (which the FDA or CDC considered it to be), then be my guest.  You do you and I'll do me.  I don't follow the rest of the lemmings off the cliff. 

Evidence and documentaries of bad consequences of this defective vaccine are out there.  But it gets suppressed and rarely reported on.  It even got suppressed here.  Can't win a debate or an argument, just falsely label it as 'misinformation' while never answering directly if victims are lying about their health problems or not.  Just censor or shut people up instead of winning a debate or doing more to prove their set of facts.  No longer is it about having a better argument, it's about controlling the narrative through every trick imaginable.  I fully expect debate class in school to get cancelled soon because it is 'triggering' to some new imaginary group with some new 'feelings'. 
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Savant on December 17, 2021, 10:46:37 am
The video was fine, yet you removed it? 

Your opinion is fine and mine is not.  I get it now.  You are judge jury and executioner.  Either way, I am not taking a defective vaccine that has made many people sick and whose long term effects are unknown.  If you want to line up for the 'experiment' (which the FDA or CDC considered it to be), then be my guest.  You do you and I'll do me.  I don't follow the rest of the lemmings off the cliff. 

Evidence and documentaries of bad consequences of this defective vaccine are out there.  But it gets suppressed and rarely reported on.  It even got suppressed here.  Can't win a debate or an argument, just falsely label it as 'misinformation' while never answering directly if victims are lying about their health problems or not.  Just censor or shut people up instead of winning a debate or doing more to prove their set of facts.  No longer is it about having a better argument, it's about controlling the narrative through every trick imaginable.  I fully expect debate class in school to get cancelled soon because it is 'triggering' to some new imaginary group with some new 'feelings'. 

Your opinion is nonsense and supported by fringe arguments and "facts". Your debate is simply to keep pushing this nonsense until more people believe it. It's the reason as to why so many people have been taken in by this anti-vaxxer BS. You're no disciple of truth; merely a peddler of BS.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Kyndo on December 17, 2021, 10:51:16 am
The video was fine, yet you removed it? 
I removed the whole comment rather than just parts of it because otherwise it would just be a video without context.
Feel free to post the video again, of course.

Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 17, 2021, 12:55:46 pm
Can you show me your data? What specific extreme sports are being referred to? What type of delivery driver and for which delivery companies? When in the 1960s--before or after most cars had seat belts? What make and manufacturer of cars are being referred to?

I think what we have here is another of your WACGs.
https://www.teletracnavman.com/resources/resource-library/infographics/most-dangerous-jobs-infographic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7014e1.htm#F2_down

However, I also added the stipulation of co-morbidities. Now that data is unavailable, though it would be logical to assume it accounts for a significant number of cases in the 55-under age group. So we already see that for people under the age of 44, it is literally more dangerous to drive a car during  the 1960s.

Of course anyone who isn't a gullible sap should know this. However, those who are easily manipulated have bought into Project Fear about how dangerous this is for certain groups.

(https://i2.wp.com/www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/rothwell_covidinfo_fig1-01.png?w=768&crop=0%2C0px%2C100%2C9999px&ssl=1)
https://www.brookings.edu/research/how-misinformation-is-distorting-covid-policies-and-behaviors/
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: gogators! on December 17, 2021, 10:59:09 pm
https://www.teletracnavman.com/resources/resource-library/infographics/most-dangerous-jobs-infographic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7014e1.htm#F2_down

However, I also added the stipulation of co-morbidities. Now that data is unavailable, though it would be logical to assume it accounts for a significant number of cases in the 55-under age group. So we already see that for people under the age of 44, it is literally more dangerous to drive a car during  the 1960s.

Of course anyone who isn't a gullible sap should know this. However, those who are easily manipulated have bought into Project Fear about how dangerous this is for certain groups.

(https://i2.wp.com/www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/rothwell_covidinfo_fig1-01.png?w=768&crop=0%2C0px%2C100%2C9999px&ssl=1)
https://www.brookings.edu/research/how-misinformation-is-distorting-covid-policies-and-behaviors/
https://www.teletracnavman.com/resources/resource-library/infographics/most-dangerous-jobs-infographic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7014e1.htm#F2_down

However, I also added the stipulation of co-morbidities. Now that data is unavailable, though it would be logical to assume it accounts for a significant number of cases in the 55-under age group. So we already see that for people under the age of 44, it is literally more dangerous to drive a car during  the 1960s.

Of course anyone who isn't a gullible sap should know this. However, those who are easily manipulated have bought into Project Fear about how dangerous this is for certain groups.

(https://i2.wp.com/www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/rothwell_covidinfo_fig1-01.png?w=768&crop=0%2C0px%2C100%2C9999px&ssl=1)
https://www.brookings.edu/research/how-misinformation-is-distorting-covid-policies-and-behaviors/
Where are the extreme sports?

Since almost no one is driving a car made in the 60s and no one is driving on roads as they were in the 60s, there is no validity to that comparison.

As for delivery drivers, what percentage of the US population do they represent? For most people, that's another invalid comparison.

You've done nothing here but post some charts without context.

The statistic that matters is 800,000 American deaths due to Covid-19. If you want to compare that to something, how about 5,000 Chinese deaths due to Covid-19? I'm not claiming that the US should have instituted the same measures as China, but rather that there are measures that do work and would work in the US if the populace thought less about their so-called individual rights and more about what is good for their neighbor, their community and their country.

But your SOP is to oppose any and all change and to claim that changes for the worse are really so bad. Your credentials as a self-absorbed individual remain uncontested.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: gogators! on December 18, 2021, 12:16:49 am
We already know this, but it fits so well with the narrative the radical right on these forums is trying to spin, I thought I'd post it.

"A new report from the House Committee on Oversight and Reform — the main investigative body of the House of Representatives — found that the Trump administration undermined the country's COVID-19 pandemic response for political purposes.

The report, first written about by CNN and conducted under the auspices of the Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Crisis, includes numerous findings that have already been released this year. But the report also includes new evidence of what the committee called "deliberate efforts to undermine the nation's coronavirus response for political purposes."

According to the report, the Trump administration also weakened COVID-19 testing guidelines set by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) while blocking media briefings by the public health agency.

After a February 25, 2020 briefing in which then-CDC National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases Director Dr. Nancy Messonnier warned about the dangers of the virus, former President Donald Trump was angered and blocked the health agency's requests to conduct public briefings for three months.

"That is the feeling that we had, many of us had," said Dr. Anne Schuchat, a CDC official, when asked by the committee about whether she and others at the agency felt "muzzled" by the administration.

Dr. Deborah Birx, who served as the White House Coronavirus Response Coordinator under Trump, wrote in an email released by the committee that she would be skipping a meeting that included many proponents of a "herd immunity" response to the pandemic.

"I can't be part of this with these people who believe in herd immunity," Birx wrote in an August 2020 email to Marc Short, then the chief of staff to Vice President Mike Pence. "They are a fringe group without grounding in epidemics, public health or on the ground common sense experience."

The report also found that Trump administration officials "neglected the pandemic response to focus on the 2020 presidential election and promote the Big Lie that the election results were fraudulent."

"The narrow focus on campaigning 'took people's time away from and distracted them away from the pandemic,'" read the committee's summary of Birx's remarks.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/the-trump-administration-made-deliberate-efforts-to-undermine-the-nation-s-coronavirus-response-for-political-purposes-report-finds/ar-AARV5QT?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: JNM on December 19, 2021, 02:53:24 am
There were 36,399 US traffic deaths in 1960.

Next comparison, please?
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 19, 2021, 06:20:23 am
There were 36,399 US traffic deaths in 1960.

Next comparison, please?
Again, we were comparing death rate amongst healthy individuals under 55 vs. driving deaths, not raw death totals for purposes of risk assessment for said individuals. This was why deaths/100k was used. The overwhelming majority of deaths are in old people with comorbidities.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: JNM on December 19, 2021, 10:49:09 pm
Again, we were comparing death rate amongst healthy individuals under 55 vs. driving deaths, not raw death totals for purposes of risk assessment for said individuals. This was why deaths/100k was used. The overwhelming majority of deaths are in old people with comorbidities.

The big issue I have with the “comorbidity” argument is that many are latent.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: VanIslander on December 20, 2021, 12:02:44 am
The big issue I have with the “comorbidity” argument is that many are latent.
The same with air pollution deaths in those who reside near freeways and airports.

Do we need a silver bullet?
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: gogators! on December 20, 2021, 02:00:37 am
The same with air pollution deaths in those who reside near freeways and airports.

Do we need a silver bullet?
Or with those who live in "cancer towns" in the US.

It's the silver (and the gold) that's killing all these people.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: VanIslander on December 20, 2021, 02:51:43 am
Or with those who live in "cancer towns" in the US.

It's the silver (and the gold) that's killing all these people.
Cancer aĺley from Ottawa to Chicago.

We knew about this over a quarter century ago.


Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: hangook77 on December 20, 2021, 08:08:33 am
This is a conspiracy theory.
When used to push anti-vaxx propaganda, it can be potentially harmful. Don't post stuff like this.
  While this may be factually correct, the implication that these hedge funds are somehow using media to bring profit to "big pharma" is a conspiracy theory.
When used to push anti-vaxx propaganda, it can be potentially harmful. Don't post comments like this, please.
That local news (in a region renown for its strong political views on vaccines in general) is more honest or fair on these kind of topics is, if not misinformation, then at least hopelessly naive.
Probably not a conspiracy theory, though.

Don't post a report from ABC news?  I guess local news is now consulting with Qanon before doing their news stories?  A woman in a hospital bed isn't a conspiracy theory?  But when something doesn't fit your narrative, just ignore it, pretend it doesn't exist, and if necvessary censor it or make it shut up. 

Maybe when you overzealous pro covid vaxers can answer for the people that have been harmed by this rather than ignore it and label it as 'misinformation', perhaps then you can have a real discussion with people.  Until then, many are not going to listen to you until you answer the question and acknowledge the people who have been harmed by this.  I did post the video of the woman in the hospital bed after taking this and you removed it.  In spite of your CONTROL and COVERUPS, the facts are still the facts.  If you want to ignore it and get rid of inconvenient truths, that's on you and not on me.  You asked for proof, I provided an example whether you make excuses or not, you still got rid of something that doesn't fit your narrative.  Maybe next time have an answer to people's questions and have a far better counter argument rather than just trying to shut people up and lie about their intentions or their arguments. 
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: VanIslander on December 20, 2021, 08:12:37 am
Let's all get along.

Disagree. But share a beer.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: hangook77 on December 20, 2021, 08:15:56 am
Let's all get along.

Disagree. But share a beer.

That's normally my positions.  Sadly leftists and pro covid vaxxers don't seem to tolerate others nowadays. 
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 20, 2021, 08:37:01 am
The big issue I have with the “comorbidity” argument is that many are latent.
True, but I think in the case of healthy adults and children it's usually obvious what it is and has already presented itself- either significant health issue or morbid obesity or some other factor.

So for healthy adults and children we are talking a level of risk similar to driving a car in the 1960s, perhaps even lower. I think that's a level of risk we can look at tolerating vs. wide-scale disruption and economic upheaval. I mean, you also have to factor in the expected mortality from increased alcoholism, crime, poverty, suicide AND things like childhood development issues, educational issues, etc.

In my view when you raise those costs vs. say, trying to buy the elderly and already sick (many with conditions that are likely to be fatal within 2 years) a few more years....I know it's uncomfortable to think and say, but it really doesn't seem to be worth it.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 20, 2021, 08:46:13 am
Don't post a report from ABC news?  I guess local news is now consulting with Qanon before doing their news stories?  A woman in a hospital bed isn't a conspiracy theory?  But when something doesn't fit your narrative, just ignore it, pretend it doesn't exist, and if necvessary censor it or make it shut up. 
Again, hangook77, the issue isn't you posting the report, it is your framing of it.

I'll give you a handy checklist of how to post something that should be okay

1) Does it or you state something as FACT or as OPINION? If you state things as your OPINION, there is more leeway.
2) Are you asserting something or "asking questions"? If you put things in terms of a question, you will be given more leeway.
3) Do you take a report and draw your own conclusions as FACT? If so, that will increase your chances of your post being moderated
4) Is your source from a credible major media outlet, not YOUR definition of credible, but the widely held mainstream definition of credible. If so, then you will probably given more leeway, assuming you didn't do #3.

Now, these are really simple rules, provided you have patience, discipline, an eye for detail, and can examine your own work critically without getting frustrated about the rules others have set. Some of those qualities you may have, others may not be your strong suits, but you're going to have to use all of those to make sure your posts don't get deleted if you want to discuss this issue.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: hangook77 on December 20, 2021, 12:06:59 pm
Again, hangook77, the issue isn't you posting the report, it is your framing of it.

I'll give you a handy checklist of how to post something that should be okay

1) Does it or you state something as FACT or as OPINION? If you state things as your OPINION, there is more leeway.
2) Are you asserting something or "asking questions"? If you put things in terms of a question, you will be given more leeway.
3) Do you take a report and draw your own conclusions as FACT? If so, that will increase your chances of your post being moderated
4) Is your source from a credible major media outlet, not YOUR definition of credible, but the widely held mainstream definition of credible. If so, then you will probably given more leeway, assuming you didn't do #3.

Now, these are really simple rules, provided you have patience, discipline, an eye for detail, and can examine your own work critically without getting frustrated about the rules others have set. Some of those qualities you may have, others may not be your strong suits, but you're going to have to use all of those to make sure your posts don't get deleted if you want to discuss this issue.
Again, hangook77, the issue isn't you posting the report, it is your framing of it.

I'll give you a handy checklist of how to post something that should be okay

1) Does it or you state something as FACT or as OPINION? If you state things as your OPINION, there is more leeway.
2) Are you asserting something or "asking questions"? If you put things in terms of a question, you will be given more leeway.
3) Do you take a report and draw your own conclusions as FACT? If so, that will increase your chances of your post being moderated
4) Is your source from a credible major media outlet, not YOUR definition of credible, but the widely held mainstream definition of credible. If so, then you will probably given more leeway, assuming you didn't do #3.

Now, these are really simple rules, provided you have patience, discipline, an eye for detail, and can examine your own work critically without getting frustrated about the rules others have set. Some of those qualities you may have, others may not be your strong suits, but you're going to have to use all of those to make sure your posts don't get deleted if you want to discuss this issue.

The video news report spoke for itself and the woman in the hospital bed was speaking to what happened to her after she took the shot.  Unless she is lying and faking her injuries.  I love how convenient it is to ignore facts and testimonies.  Is it her opinion that she is in a hospital bed?  Is it my opinion that people I know have told me things about their experiences and that in most cases the media WILL NOT report it becasue it does not fit their narrative?  I call BS on this above. 

There are no rules about sharing news and facts.  But if you wish I will reshare again with only the video and we shall see if it is deleted then.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: hangook77 on December 20, 2021, 12:09:54 pm


www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYjTlfZn7R8









https://www.abc4.com/video/utah-senator-demands-answers-from-cdc-fda-after-hundreds-of-vaccine-patients-suffer-life-altering-injuries/6795982/
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: hangook77 on December 20, 2021, 12:25:23 pm
www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mxqC9SiRh8


Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 20, 2021, 12:29:01 pm
The video news report spoke for itself and the woman in the hospital bed was speaking to what happened to her after she took the shot.  Unless she is lying and faking her injuries.  I love how convenient it is to ignore facts and testimonies.  Is it her opinion that she is in a hospital bed?  Is it my opinion that people I know have told me things about their experiences and that in most cases the media WILL NOT report it becasue it does not fit their narrative?
You can simply post it as this-

"Here is one woman's reaction to the vaccine. In my OPINION, reactions such as hers should be taken into consideration when making policy. It is POSSIBLE that we are not being cautious enough in testing and preventing adverse reactions when distributing the vaccines. "

What you can't do- "This woman's sickness PROVES the vaccine is dangerous and does not work. This PROVES that it shouldn't be administered and it isn't working. This PROVES there is a coverup."

Why? It doesn't PROVE any of that.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 20, 2021, 12:31:43 pm
There are no rules about sharing news and facts.  But if you wish I will reshare again with only the video and we shall see if it is deleted then.
Actually there are if you draw conclusions and state them as facts that are not supported by the news/resources you share or if the sources are of dubious origin (and I would be somewhat broad with that standard, but you can't just post some crackpot's blog or some random internet newspaper as fact)

And yes, your clips will not be taken down because they are simply local outlets reporting on a story and NOT drawing conclusions, which is what you do.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: tylerthegloob on December 20, 2021, 12:39:29 pm
though they might be taken down under the LI clause reserved for people who post videos with no comment attached
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Savant on December 20, 2021, 12:50:21 pm
Vaccinated woman in hospital bed = vaccinations don’t work.

I don’t see how I can compete with that logic.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 20, 2021, 02:36:07 pm
though they might be taken down under the LI clause reserved for people who post videos with no comment attached

Ooo good point.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: JNM on December 20, 2021, 04:34:00 pm


…So for healthy adults and children we are talking a level of risk similar to driving a car in the 1960s, perhaps even lower. I think that's a level of risk we can look at tolerating vs. wide-scale disruption and economic upheaval. I mean, you also have to factor in the expected mortality from increased alcoholism, crime, poverty, suicide AND things like childhood development issues, educational issues, etc…

It looks like we are going to have live with this for a while.

The risks associated with driving in the 1960s were too high, so we took steps to reduce that risk.

I don’t think we should go into full lock down, but society (save for a few loud voices) seems comfortable with a combination of vaccines and testing.

I want my hospital staff, teachers, food service staff, fellow concert goers and plane/train passengers to be vaccinated AND* tested regularly. In Abu Dhabi, UAE vaccinated people need a PCR every 14 days to have free movement. Unvaccinated is shorter.

There are still many places with ICUs at capacity. This impacts not only Covid patients, but health care in general.

There is no easy solution, but lots of small, incremental solutions.

Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: gogators! on December 21, 2021, 12:48:25 am
It looks like we are going to have live with this for a while.

The risks associated with driving in the 1960s were too high, so we took steps to reduce that risk.

I don’t think we should go into full lock down, but society (save for a few loud voices) seems comfortable with a combination of vaccines and testing.

I want my hospital staff, teachers, food service staff, fellow concert goers and plane/train passengers to be vaccinated AND* tested regularly. In Abu Dhabi, UAE vaccinated people need a PCR every 14 days to have free movement. Unvaccinated is shorter.

There are still many places with ICUs at capacity. This impacts not only Covid patients, but health care in general.

There is no easy solution, but lots of small, incremental solutions.


Yes, working the problem, not denying it, is the way toward a solution.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 21, 2021, 07:40:01 am
Yes, working the problem, not denying it, is the way toward a solution.
"Solutions" which create whole new problems and are of limited effectiveness are not true solutions. Also, while many problems need to be worked, in some cases non-interfevention or not seeking unattainable perfection may be better.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Kyndo on December 21, 2021, 08:03:36 am
[video]
https://www.abc4.com/video/utah-senator-demands-answers-from-cdc-fda-after-hundreds-of-vaccine-patients-suffer-life-altering-injuries/6795982/
That's just fine, hangook. :smiley:

Also, just to address an earlier point, I don't really have a political narrative. Please feel 100% free to post whatever politics you like -- so long as it's relevant to the topic, and more or less honest (ie not obvious trolling).

Opinions are obviously also welcome (so long as they abide by the ToS, of course), again so long as they're not passed off as facts.

If I disagree with an opinion, I won't delete it: I'll argue about it just like everybody else. I mean, some of the most interesting discussions here have been straight up arguments.  :azn:

   
   If there is a comment that is demonstrably false (as in, *proven* to be based on incorrect data), and is either overly unpleasant or harmful to the community, it'll get deleted. That's censorship, I guess, but I feel it's justifiable.

  Stuff that falls in the above categories would include:
 - Holocaust denial posts (there have been several of those in the past, for which I have been called a "waffle" for not deleting faster)
 - vaccine=autism (also has popped up a few times, weirdly)
 - eugenics (this usually gets reported like crazy, so is taken down pretty quickly.
 - Stuff mentioned in the ToS.

 I assumed this would be more or less what was required of me as a mod on a public teaching forum, but if there's a lot of disagreement, I'm more than happy to change how these things are dealt with. I mean, the whole point of mods is to keep things pleasant and productive for everybody using the forum, right?

Thoughts/comments, anybody?



Anyway, back on topic, has anybody already taken the booster shots? I though the optimal waiting time between the last shot and the booster was 3 months?
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: L I on December 21, 2021, 08:15:17 am
Anyway, back on topic, has anybody already taken the booster shots? I though the optimal waiting time between the last shot and the booster was 3 months?

“That interval could be as short as four months, but generally speaking, a six-month interval is probably best,” said  Stanley Plotkin, a veteran vaccinologist and emeritus professor of pediatrics at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-26/boosters-prevent-covid-better-after-six-month-wait-doctors-say
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Kyndo on December 21, 2021, 08:21:25 am
“That interval could be as short as four months, but generally speaking, a six-month interval is probably best,” said  Stanley Plotkin, a veteran vaccinologist and emeritus professor of pediatrics at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-26/boosters-prevent-covid-better-after-six-month-wait-doctors-say
Ah yes, you're right. I *should* have said "the Korean government is pushing 3 months between the last shot and the first booster".
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: D.L.Orean on December 21, 2021, 08:25:43 am
Ah yes, you're right. I *should* have said "the Korean government is pushing 3 months between the last shot and the first booster".

I received a booster shot in late November, about 5 months after initially getting vaccinated.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Adel on December 21, 2021, 08:56:49 am
“That interval could be as short as four months, but generally speaking, a six-month interval is probably best,” said  Stanley Plotkin, a veteran vaccinologist and emeritus professor of pediatrics at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-26/boosters-prevent-covid-better-after-six-month-wait-doctors-say

That link is somewhat dated in that Omicron was designated a variant of concern two days later.
South Korea seems to be on the same page as the UK in recommending a 3rd dose after 3months.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/29/covid-booster-jabs-to-be-offered-to-all-uk-adults-after-three-month-gap
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 21, 2021, 09:55:27 am
Anyway, back on topic, has anybody already taken the booster shots? I though the optimal waiting time between the last shot and the booster was 3 months?
Yup. Booked it last week and got it. Everything went smoothly. Glad I didn't dawdle. Ol DeMart sensed there might be a run on things and wants to be one of the anointed few who can drink in public at a reasonable hour like 10 PM or 9AM.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr C on December 21, 2021, 10:42:58 am

Anyway, back on topic, has anybody already taken the booster shots? I though the optimal waiting time between the last shot and the booster was 3 months?
Got mine yesterday, Moderna following AZ, 4 months ago.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: CO2 on December 21, 2021, 10:47:07 am
Jan 10th, 10AM. School is giving all of us 3 sick days to recoup.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr C on December 21, 2021, 10:52:45 am
Jan 10th, 10AM. School is giving all of us 3 sick days to recoup.

Is it " giving you sick days" or "requiring you to take 3 of your allotted sick days"?

I mean, my shoulder is a little sore but nothing to write home about, and certainly nothing to stay home about... as of yet.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: CO2 on December 21, 2021, 10:53:59 am
Is it " giving you sick days" or "requiring you to take 3 of your allotted sick days"?

I get an extra 3 days vacation, essentially. And I never use sick days cuz I'm a healthy boy. heh The school is telling all the teachers they get 3 days off.

No skin off my back. Bring on the extra time not deskwarming.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr C on December 21, 2021, 10:58:54 am
I get an extra 3 days vacation, essentially. And I never use sick days cuz I'm a healthy boy. heh The school is telling all the teachers they get 3 days off.

No skin off my back. Bring on the extra time not deskwarming.
Wow, that's nice.

I never missed a single class due to illness in 13+ years in Korea.

However, last month, I slipped and fell on my shoulder and used 8 of my 15 sick days for the surgery and recovery.

So...
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: CO2 on December 21, 2021, 11:12:29 am
However, last month, I slipped and fell on my shoulder and used 8 of my 15 sick days for the surgery and recovery.

Dang, hope you're feeling better, Mr. C!! Health and Prosperity to you in the new year.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Kyndo on December 21, 2021, 11:22:57 am
Dang, hope you're feeling better, Mr. C!! Health and Prosperity to you in the new year.
(https://www.geekgirlauthority.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/hqdefault59.jpg)
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: CO2 on December 21, 2021, 11:25:46 am
This is the superior John David Washington Tenet

(https://images.hindustantimes.com/rf/image_size_960x540/HT/p2/2020/12/03/Pictures/_429a7df2-354a-11eb-a00e-2cd7664e001b.png)
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Kyndo on December 21, 2021, 11:28:38 am
+1
I liked the part where his side-kick got all glittery in the sunlight!
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: CO2 on December 21, 2021, 11:30:25 am
(https://res.cloudinary.com/enjoymovie/image/upload/gsxmtbmlw715uwolr8wr.jpg)
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Kyndo on December 21, 2021, 11:42:25 am
(https://res.cloudinary.com/enjoymovie/image/upload/gsxmtbmlw715uwolr8wr.jpg)
:laugh:
Nice!
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: hangook77 on December 21, 2021, 12:51:03 pm
You can simply post it as this-

"Here is one woman's reaction to the vaccine. In my OPINION, reactions such as hers should be taken into consideration when making policy. It is POSSIBLE that we are not being cautious enough in testing and preventing adverse reactions when distributing the vaccines. "

What you can't do- "This woman's sickness PROVES the vaccine is dangerous and does not work. This PROVES that it shouldn't be administered and it isn't working. This PROVES there is a coverup."

Why? It doesn't PROVE any of that.

It's not an opinion that she's in a hospital bed nor is it an opinion what others are reporting in the other video happened to them.  Facts don't care about my opinion or yours.  Their experiences and reactions don't fit your narrative.  I guess you have to ignore it and use a vague term like 'misinformation' in order to dismiss it. 
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: SPQR on December 21, 2021, 12:57:30 pm

www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYjTlfZn7R8









https://www.abc4.com/video/utah-senator-demands-answers-from-cdc-fda-after-hundreds-of-vaccine-patients-suffer-life-altering-injuries/6795982/

Looks like this hankook character has been up to his monkey business again.
I thought we were cracking down on this QAnon, conspiracy theory garbage?
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: hangook77 on December 21, 2021, 12:58:53 pm
Looks like this hankook character has been up to his monkey business again.
I thought we were cracking down on this QAnon, conspiracy theory garbage?

ABC News channel 4 local news is Qanon now?  Not too smart are you?
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr C on December 21, 2021, 01:23:43 pm
That's no good Mr C. I also hope you're doing okay. I thought you had disappeared for a number of days a few weeks back. Not that I'm watching carefully  :wink: ;D

Dang, hope you're feeling better, Mr. C!! Health and Prosperity to you in the new year.

Thanks, gents!
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 21, 2021, 01:28:10 pm
Dang, hope you're feeling better, Mr. C!! Health and Prosperity to you in the new year.
Agreed. Hope the shoulder is back in business soon and you can get back to the hobbies and friends you love.

And typing in zero pain against the posters you despise.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 21, 2021, 01:35:54 pm
Looks like this hankook character has been up to his monkey business again.
I thought we were cracking down on this QAnon, conspiracy theory garbage?
He followed the rules- He posted from an established media outlet. He did not state any facts. He simply shared a news report.

Now he DID "Pull an L I" as Senor Gloob put it, but that is a formatting/spamming rule, not a content rule.

It's not an opinion that she's in a hospital bed nor is it an opinion what others are reporting in the other video happened to them.  Facts don't care about my opinion or yours.  Their experiences and reactions don't fit your narrative.  I guess you have to ignore it and use a vague term like 'misinformation' in order to dismiss it.
No one is saying that their being hospitalized isn't factual. What is NOT factual are the conclusions you draw from their stories and your statement of those conclusions as facts.

hangook77, if they didn't fit my narrative, then how come I advocated for them to be able to be posted? I am totally for those videos being posted, even though I think they are just anecdotal irrelevancies, just as I am in favor of someone posting some news report about someone doing great thanks to the vaccine. I am even in favor of you being to spout your wild, incoherant and poorly thought out ramblings provided they are expressed as opinion. As for the rest, I have no objection with the standard this site has in terms of its misinformation policy and enforcement.

Dude, if you can't tell how incredibly patient Kyndo has been with you and how much he has let you get away with, you really are an idiot. Doubly so for going after the person who helped in some way to get a clear standard established for your videos to be posted, thanks to their ability to actually form a logical and coherant argument based on established standards and not just throwing a temper tantrum and accusing everyone of wanting to silence your narrative. Maybe if you better developed your skills in reasoning and persuasion, and accepted the fact that your skills in those areas are incredibly piss poor ATM, then you MIGHT have been able to do this for yourself instead of needing my Fing help to do it.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: SPQR on December 28, 2021, 02:23:03 pm
This just in from the Joong Ang Daily:

"The unvaccinated accounted for 40.4 percent of the Omicron patients, while those who had received booster shots accounted for 3.9 percent."

https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/2021/12/27/national/socialAffairs/korea-buys-pfizer-and-MSD-pills-Paxlovid-Molnupiravir/20211227195934555.html

Get those boosters people.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 28, 2021, 02:39:17 pm
This just in from the Joong Ang Daily:

"The unvaccinated accounted for 40.4 percent of the Omicron patients, while those who had received booster shots accounted for 3.9 percent."

https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/2021/12/27/national/socialAffairs/korea-buys-pfizer-and-MSD-pills-Paxlovid-Molnupiravir/20211227195934555.html

Get those boosters people.
While certainly it is critical for those over say, 55. And for those 35-55, it's a good idea. Most of the unvaccinated are minors and according to the article,

Quote
There has been no instance of an Omicron patient being admitted to the intensive care unit (I.C.U.) for severe conditions, according to the ministry.

If indeed it's mostly minors being infected and being unvaccinated, and their symptoms being mild, then I think boosters are more of an issue for Delta than Omicron.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: VanIslander on December 28, 2021, 03:52:04 pm
Have you got your fifth shot yet?
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: gogators! on December 29, 2021, 01:16:20 am
Have you got your fifth shot yet?
Does a fifth of whiskey count?
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: L I on December 29, 2021, 08:17:59 am
Have you got your fifth shot yet?

Not yet. We’re on our third. Three months later we’ll get our fourth dose then three months after that will be our fifth.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: tylerthegloob on December 29, 2021, 08:58:41 am
i actually liked LI's response
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: chimp on December 29, 2021, 05:16:05 pm
FFS I swear this forum gets dumber each time I visit.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: chimp on December 29, 2021, 06:24:23 pm
Maybe, but it's good to see LI take the piss out of Van Islander for a change.

Fair enough but who isn't taking the piss out of VanIslander? He posts pointless stuff like the air quality is better in some random city he lived in that is irrelevant to us, or it literally took him years to process that words like cider have a different meaning here. Even worse is that he's old enough to know better than to post boring self-indulgent crap.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: 745sticky on December 30, 2021, 08:03:55 am
FFS I swear this forum gets dumber each time I visit.

I swear this forum gets dumber each time you visit, too. huh.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: CO2 on December 30, 2021, 08:09:04 am
(https://c.tenor.com/zPxGVT-Po0gAAAAC/uno-no-u.gif)
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: SPQR on December 31, 2021, 07:04:43 am
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/12/30/health/us-coronavirus-thursday/index.html

Unvaccinated people "are 17 times more likely" to be hospitalized with Covid-19, CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said Wednesday. Some 62% of the total US population is fully vaccinated, and 33% of those have gotten a booster shot, data from the CDC shows.

Pretty basic math.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Sagi Keun on January 09, 2022, 06:43:04 pm
also are you like ideologically opposed to using apps or something? assuming you sort of know how to log into website and do phone verification and stuff in korea, it's not too hard to set up the app. then you're free to not carry around a piece of paper everywhere

I am opposed, yes.

Why does that bother you, covid fascist?

You sound like you want to send anyone who doesn't do what you want to the gas chambers.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: CO2 on January 09, 2022, 07:43:38 pm
I am opposed, yes.

Why does that bother you, covid fascist?

You sound like you want to send anyone who doesn't do what you want to the gas chambers.

Imagine thinking this and then actually writing it.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: VanIslander on January 09, 2022, 08:05:31 pm
parrhesia
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: tylerthegloob on January 10, 2022, 07:34:08 am
I am opposed, yes.
let me get this straight. you're not opposed to showing them paper evidence of your vaccination, but you are opposed  to showing them evidence via an app? what are you getting at here, dude?
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr C on January 10, 2022, 07:39:45 am
let me get this straight. you're not opposed to showing them paper evidence of your vaccination, but you are opposed  to showing them evidence via an app? what are you getting at here, dude?

The government, in addition to spraying chemicals in the air and putting fluoride in our water supply, wishes to control our minds via mind-control apps.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: SPQR on January 10, 2022, 07:54:40 am
The government, in addition to spraying chemicals in the air and putting fluoride in our water supply, wishes to control our minds via mind-control apps.

Hey Mr. C. Is this you? I thought they banged you up?

(https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/world-news/2022/01/06/TELEMMGLPICT000248114888_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqB9TNGSg3mw1zIYGf6IZil4X55UGE1-QmdhXTcMmlCx4.jpeg?imwidth=480)
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: hangook77 on January 10, 2022, 08:21:09 am
Hey Mr. C. Is this you? I thought they banged you up?

(https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/world-news/2022/01/06/TELEMMGLPICT000248114888_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqB9TNGSg3mw1zIYGf6IZil4X55UGE1-QmdhXTcMmlCx4.jpeg?imwidth=480)

Antifa plant....
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: hangook77 on January 10, 2022, 08:22:38 am
let me get this straight. you're not opposed to showing them paper evidence of your vaccination, but you are opposed  to showing them evidence via an app? what are you getting at here, dude?

The Nazi's and the Soviets use to check people's papers too. 
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: MayorHaggar on January 10, 2022, 08:31:32 am
Antifa plant....

You being an antifa troll suddenly makes your inane posts make more sense.

(https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/0/1/AAUqJwAACYWB.jpg)

Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: hangook77 on January 10, 2022, 08:45:39 am
You being an antifa troll suddenly makes your inane posts make more sense.

(https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/0/1/AAUqJwAACYWB.jpg)



Tell that to the guy in the "capital riot" pic who had a hammer and sickle tattoo and was featured of a Pennsylvania antifa webpage?  Did he get lost and accidentally join the wrong group? 
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: hangook77 on January 10, 2022, 08:51:39 am
https://nypost.com/2021/01/07/known-antifa-members-posed-as-pro-trump-to-infiltrate-capitol-riot-sources/

Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: hangook77 on January 10, 2022, 08:52:15 am
Day before Jan 6th?  Who attacked Federal properties?

https://nypost.com/2021/01/05/antifa-rioters-vandalized-federal-buildings-in-philadelphia-cops/
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: hangook77 on January 10, 2022, 08:55:08 am
Why is this prior assault on democracy not being investigated?  Why did the media say next to nothing about it and quickly drop it while never shutting up about January 6th which also had anti members?  (Though stupidly less than 0.0001% a few Trump supporters also did take the bait on that one even if the majority did not.)

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11752998/trump-secure-bunker-friday-george-floyd-protests-white-house/

Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: CO2 on January 10, 2022, 09:03:31 am
Getting my booster in a few minutes like a good, obedient slave!
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr C on January 10, 2022, 09:33:06 am
Antifa plant....

Jacob Chansley?  An antifa plant?

Surely you must know better.  If not, educate yourself before opening your gaping maw of ignorance:

https://www.businessinsider.com/qanon-shaman-prison-interview-compares-himself-to-jesus-christ-2021-12  as a for instance.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: hangook77 on January 10, 2022, 10:01:45 am
Getting my booster in a few minutes like a good, obedient slave!

Enjoy Comrade!!!
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: hangook77 on January 10, 2022, 10:05:12 am
https://cleverjourneys.com/2021/01/06/photos-show-antifa-operatives-initially-stormed-u-s-capitol/
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr C on January 10, 2022, 10:19:58 am
https://cleverjourneys.com/2021/01/06/photos-show-antifa-operatives-initially-stormed-u-s-capitol/

I know you think those photos mean something.  More's the pity.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: tylerthegloob on January 10, 2022, 10:43:37 am
The Nazi's and the Soviets use to check people's papers too. 

yeah man! **** I.D.! **** driver's licenses! no more papers, no more passports! no gods, no kings, no masters!

but honestly, i don't expect you to think at a level any higher than "soviets check paper. check paper = bad"
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: hangook77 on January 10, 2022, 11:37:51 am
yeah man! **** I.D.! **** driver's licenses! no more papers, no more passports! no gods, no kings, no masters!

but honestly, i don't expect you to think at a level any higher than "soviets check paper. check paper = bad"

I don't recall officials (government, companies, etc) ever checking my papers, drivers licenses, etc and ever telling me where I can and cannot go before.  But you keep complying and doing what you are told.  But don't say someday that I didn't tell you so. 
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Savant on January 10, 2022, 02:59:04 pm
I don't recall officials (government, companies, etc) ever checking my papers, drivers licenses, etc and ever telling me where I can and cannot go before.  But you keep complying and doing what you are told.  But don't say someday that I didn't tell you so. 

See ya in the gulags, bro.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Chester Jim on January 10, 2022, 03:41:05 pm
Let's kick this thing in the ass.

Booster shots to be given after three months

https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/
Hahahahahahaahhahahahhahaha
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on January 10, 2022, 07:14:10 pm
I don't recall officials (government, companies, etc) ever checking my papers, drivers licenses, etc and ever telling me where I can and cannot go before.
How did you manage to enter Korea and get an E-2 visa?
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: JNM on January 10, 2022, 08:06:16 pm
How did you manage to enter Korea and get an E-2 visa?
I don't recall officials (government, companies, etc) ever checking my papers, drivers licenses, etc and ever telling me where I can and cannot go before.  But you keep complying and doing what you are told.  But don't say someday that I didn't tell you so. 

Places in Korea that asked me for ID:

Airports
Hospitals
Banks
Hotels
Various manufacturing plants
Police stations


Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: VanIslander on January 10, 2022, 08:12:47 pm
Places in Korea that asked me for ID:

Airports
Hospitals
Banks
Hotels
Various manufacturing plants
Police stations
In my 20+ years here: airports, hospitals and banks yes. Hotels, never. Police station? Dang, never been there!
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: hippo on January 10, 2022, 09:13:05 pm
We need to stay healthy or the rabbit wins.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr C on January 10, 2022, 09:31:51 pm
In Korea:

# Immigration
# Mobile police
# Phone shops
# Council office
# Army check-points
# Insurance company
# Tax office
# Business registration office
# Education office

And all of what's been mentioned.
The list goes on...



No, no, no, you don't understand.  HANKOOK has never had to show his papers, period, and that is a fact.  The bank just sees his honest visage and shovels money across the counter to him.  Immigration just skips him to the front of the line and updates the back of his ARC magically without even touching it.  We know this much is true.   Because his cousin told him 4 people she knows dropped dead after getting their vax.   Anecdotal evidence proves what he says, unless it's someone else's anecdote, in which case it only counts if it agrees with his narrative.  Also, stop being a Marxist fascist, like you use to.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Savant on January 10, 2022, 10:29:07 pm
Fascists do dress better than Commies.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: JNM on January 11, 2022, 02:20:31 am
I don’t know… Castro and Guevara had style!
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: gogators! on January 11, 2022, 07:12:09 am
I don’t know… Castro and Guevara had style!
Yep, way ahead of the beard farming trend.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Kyndo on January 11, 2022, 07:51:47 am
Police station? Dang, never been there!
Clearly you're not having enough fun! Remember: what happens in Korea stays in Korea!  :wink:
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Augustiner on January 11, 2022, 07:53:57 am
In my 20+ years here: airports, hospitals and banks yes. Hotels, never. Police station? Dang, never been there!

Never had a job here that required a Korean Criminal Background check?
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: VanIslander on January 11, 2022, 01:08:48 pm
Never had a job here that required a Korean Criminal Background check?
At afternoon academies? No.

I've only taken 3 or 4pm to 8 or 9pm positions.

Maybe the public schools require a Korean CRC? *shrug*
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: hangook77 on January 11, 2022, 01:14:18 pm
No, no, no, you don't understand.  HANKOOK has never had to show his papers, period, and that is a fact.  The bank just sees his honest visage and shovels money across the counter to him.  Immigration just skips him to the front of the line and updates the back of his ARC magically without even touching it.  We know this much is true.   Because his cousin told him 4 people she knows dropped dead after getting their vax.   Anecdotal evidence proves what he says, unless it's someone else's anecdote, in which case it only counts if it agrees with his narrative.  Also, stop being a Marxist fascist, like you use to.

Until now, I wasn't asked for my papers out and about on the street and in the stores.  But go right on distorting things and sticking your nose in MY private business. 

Of course everyone who claims the vaccine gave them or a friend bad reactions is a liar and must immediately be dismissed as misinformation.  Nothing must go against your narrative.  It must all be shut down and shut up. 
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Adel on January 11, 2022, 01:49:27 pm
Until now, I wasn't asked for my papers out and about on the street and in the stores.  But go right on distorting things and sticking your nose in MY private business. 

 Nothing must go against your narrative.  It must all be shut down and shut up. 
But it was your own narrative dude! :shocked:
I don't recall officials (government, companies, etc) ever checking my papers, drivers licenses, etc and ever telling me where I can and cannot go before.  But you keep complying and doing what you are told.  But don't say someday that I didn't tell you so. 
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on January 11, 2022, 02:03:25 pm
Until now, I wasn't asked for my papers out and about on the street and in the stores. 
No one has ever been stopped on the street and had their papers demanded.

And yes, you said this bit of dimwittery-

Quote
I don't recall officials (government, companies, etc) ever checking my papers, drivers licenses, etc and ever telling me where I can and cannot go before

Just say you didn't think before typing and wrote things out poorly. But if you double down on this, you will just make a bigger fool of yourself.

Anyways, the last time I entered the casino, they demanded my ID. Same at the club. I guess that makes them Nazis.

Have you ever thought of moderating your claims? You know instead of claiming that this is like the Nazis, maybe go with the Francoists? Instead of "This is a complete mind-control police state" maybe going with "I understand their reasoning, but I think this just goes a bit too far and we should set the line at this point." You know, so you don't come across as much of a paranoid crackpot?
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on January 11, 2022, 02:11:49 pm
It must all be shut down and shut up.
Hangook77, I lobbied for a standard that was very generous to you. The admins here cut you A LOT of slack. Far more than many other places would give you. You only have to follow some simple rules and you can say virtually whatever you want. Namely, that involves putting qualifiers on what you say. Instead of presenting things as fact, present them as stories or questions or issues and do not explicitly endorse their views. Simply state that an event took place that can be verified. You will be free to post almost whatever you like.

And to everyone else- hangook77 is the perfect example of why you have a broad tolerance for speech. Taken to extremes, it almost always discredits your enemies far more than helps them. And if you think it's worse now than before the internet, keep in mind that 50 years ago, people believed some REALLY batcrap crazy stuff and many were blissfully unaware of things like the degree of police shootings and political corruption. Also, it seems like a good 50%+ of people believing deliberate misinformation (non-COVID) are doing so mainly just to troll and wind people up and as a sort of "in-joke" on the people who get upset about it. Furthermore, their numbers are often inflated and polls tend to overestimate their numbers- The sheer act of asking people "Do you think the moon is made of chocolate?" or whatever other question they ask will get a certain number of people saying "Yes" just to mess with the poll, not to mention people hitting the wrong button.

Preach on hangook77. You do more to convince people on here to get the vax and dismiss your stuff than a dozen speeches by Joe Biden.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr C on January 11, 2022, 02:38:50 pm
Furthermore, their numbers are often inflated and polls tend to overestimate their numbers- The sheer act of asking people "Do you think the moon is made of chocolate?" or whatever other question they ask will get a certain number of people saying "Yes" just to mess with the poll, not to mention people hitting the wrong button.
 

And sadly, despite 200+ years of experience at polling, pollsters remain COMPLETELY UNAWARE of such a possibility and have NEVER DONE A DAMN THING to take it into account or correct for it in any way.

But thankfully, some dude has come along in a Korea ESL teacher-focused web forum to point this out, so happily it'll all be better very soon.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Savant on January 11, 2022, 02:58:55 pm
At afternoon academies? No.

I've only taken 3 or 4pm to 8 or 9pm positions.

Maybe the public schools require a Korean CRC? *shrug*

I teach at an afternoon school.

Education office needs a CRC. As well as doing the Korean police check.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: hangook77 on January 11, 2022, 03:23:59 pm
Yeah, the Ed office does a Korean police check on me every 2 years or so. In the past, I've taken on bits and pieces and I always needed another Korean police check, anywhere I was in contact with children. I've never had to submit a CRC from NZ though. I wonder how many other long term E2's (or other visas), have to do this. I kind of thought, like you Savant, that it would be mandatory if you have been here for a number of years.   

They give me the CBC every year.  Just the Korean one though. 
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Savant on January 11, 2022, 04:02:11 pm
Yeah, the Ed office does a Korean police check on me every 2 years or so. In the past, I've taken on bits and pieces and I always needed another Korean police check, anywhere I was in contact with children. I've never had to submit a CRC from NZ though. I wonder how many other long term E2's (or other visas), have to do this. I kind of thought, like you Savant, that it would be mandatory if you have been here for a number of years.   

If you change regions or districts then the new education office always demands a CRC. In most cases, a copy from immigration suffices.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: VanIslander on January 11, 2022, 04:36:02 pm
Man, I have submitted zero documents since '09. (Moved my e-2 visa from Jeju to Gyeongsangnamdo in 2017  -  still rock a Jeju alien registration card with Gyeongsangnamdo stickers on back.

I hate red tape. That discourages taking a hiatus overseas as much as the pandemic does. Three or four years of e-2 renewals/transfers may be in order.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Sagi Keun on January 12, 2022, 12:18:30 am
Let's kick this thing in the ass.

Booster shots to be given after three months

https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/


Hahahahahahaahhahahahhahaha

(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-5ea3ed0e36b26895f353773263276240)
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Adel on January 12, 2022, 02:57:04 am
This might work for anti-vaxxers if they had any shame!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=19eG0YDrXWo
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: tylerthegloob on January 12, 2022, 07:25:35 am
oh i get it, now! sagi keun doesn't want to use the app because he didn't actually get vaccinated (and probably has some fake paper certificate that he likes to use)
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Kyndo on January 12, 2022, 08:15:34 am
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-5ea3ed0e36b26895f353773263276240)
Pretty sure most people saw all this coming a year ago, especially when the new variants started to pop out. Heck, a lot of these points are what mainstream society has been actively pushing for since the epidemic broke out.  :undecided:
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: L I on January 12, 2022, 09:06:19 am
“Health care professionals believe obesity can triple the risk of hospitalization. At least one study by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that half of patients hospitalized with COVID-19 categorized as obese.”

https://journalrecord.com/2022/01/11/obesity-undeniable-as-factor-in-many-covid-19-deaths/
___________________ ______

Why are hospitals overwhelmed and overburdened? Because so many are obese. Can they stop being so obese? Well, they could, but will they?
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Kyndo on January 12, 2022, 09:20:41 am
I feel that you're preaching to the choir, LI.
Most everybody here understands that obesity is the root of a lot of Western societies' medical issues.
I also think, judging from what I've seen on the gym threads, that most of us here on Waygook are fairly into fitness.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: D.L.Orean on January 12, 2022, 09:37:03 am
“Health care professionals believe obesity can triple the risk of hospitalization. At least one study by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that half of patients hospitalized with COVID-19 categorized as obese.”

https://journalrecord.com/2022/01/11/obesity-undeniable-as-factor-in-many-covid-19-deaths/
___________________ ______

Why are hospitals overwhelmed and overburdened? Because so many are obese. Can they stop being so obese? Well, they could, but will they?

Is anyone arguing against being healthier? Wouldn't encouraging vaccines be a quicker fix for the hospitals being overwhelmed problem? Be healthier in the long run. But getting a vaccine is a lot quicker than losing enough weight to go from the obese category to a healthy weight.

https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/k9wio/7/# (https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/k9wio/7/#)

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid-questions-boosters-omicron-1.6306774 (https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid-questions-boosters-omicron-1.6306774)
"National data shows that between Dec. 14, 2020, and Dec. 18, 2021, about 80 per cent of people hospitalized and 76 per cent of people who died with COVID-19 were unvaccinated"

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coronavirus/new-ny-breakthrough-data-show-omicrons-stunning-december-impact-as-viral-growth-rates-appear-to-slow/3487965/ (https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coronavirus/new-ny-breakthrough-data-show-omicrons-stunning-december-impact-as-viral-growth-rates-appear-to-slow/3487965/)
"almost 13 times lower than the hospitalization rate per 100,000 unvaccinated New Yorkers"
"Overall, the state reported a 92.3% age-adjusted rate of vaccine effectiveness against COVID hospitalization to end the month of December"
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: L I on January 12, 2022, 09:44:50 am
The more overweight a person is, the less likely the vaccine is to work. Fact. But yeah, old, obese, unvaccinated folk should get vaccinated. Young, in shape unvaccinated folk aren’t overburdening hospitals. The risk to them is almost non existent. But they should get vaccinated, too. To reduce the risk of spreading it to an unvaccinated or even vaccinated old out of shape person. Would be nice is everyone could live healthier lives. That’d make a hell of a difference.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: L I on January 12, 2022, 09:47:27 am
Vaccination is not the only thing people can do to help. Being healthy is another. Do you want to help? Are you doing all you can do? Yes or no?
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: L I on January 12, 2022, 09:49:15 am
(https://equalityingov.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/comforting-lies.png)
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: D.L.Orean on January 12, 2022, 09:55:53 am
Vaccination is not the only thing people can do to help. Being healthy is another. Do you want to help? Are you doing all you can do? Yes or no?

It's not the only thing. But if you are genuinely concerned about the problem of hospitals becoming overburdened it seems like you should be pushing vaccines as much as, if not more than, you push being healthy. Nobody is arguing for being unhealthy.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: gogators! on January 12, 2022, 11:13:13 am
The more overweight a person is, the less likely the vaccine is to work.
The more times you say the same thing, the more likely it is people will tune you out.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: L I on January 12, 2022, 11:41:16 am
The less healthy a person is, the more likely they are to get sick or die, vaccinated or not. Facts. Vaccines don’t offer 100% protection.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: D.L.Orean on January 12, 2022, 11:59:12 am
The less healthy a person is, the more likely they are to get sick or die, vaccinated or not. Facts. Vaccines don’t offer 100% protection.

A vaccinated person is less likely to get sick or die, healthy or not. Facts. Get vaccinated and try to be healthy. Give yourself the best protection.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: L I on January 12, 2022, 12:03:59 pm
Vaccinated people in poor health are at greater risk than unvaccinated people in good health. But yes, everyone should get vaccinated and get healthier.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: D.L.Orean on January 12, 2022, 12:11:50 pm
everyone should get vaccinated and get healthier.

I think most people would agree with this
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Adel on January 12, 2022, 12:13:53 pm
I think we would all agree that we should all breath oxygen everyday!
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: L I on January 12, 2022, 12:17:35 pm
I think most people would agree with this

Do they agree though? Why has obesity been going up since the start of the pandemic? Do people know being healthy improves immune systems? Have they considered the connection? Are they aware?
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: tylerthegloob on January 12, 2022, 12:21:51 pm
if only they were aware!
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: L I on January 12, 2022, 12:22:31 pm
I think we would all agree that we should all breath oxygen everyday!

Clean air without much pollution is ideal. While the world has becoming better in terms of growing wealth and shrinking crime (thanks to more CCTV), one area of deterioration is bad air, especially in Asia. Covid-19 has brought this down somewhat as people go out less, thus driving less, but it’s still one of the biggest problems of our time.
___________________ ___________________ ________

“Almost nine million people around the world die prematurely every year because of outdoor air pollution.”

https://science.gc.ca/eic/site/063.nsf/eng/97680.html

“Its impact on life expectancy is now comparable to poor diets and cigarette smoking.”
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: L I on January 12, 2022, 12:24:14 pm
if only they were aware!

Not sure what proportion is ignorance and what is laziness, but I’d say it’s a lot of both. But mostly the former? I hope so.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Kyndo on January 12, 2022, 12:27:44 pm
Do they agree though? Why has obesity been going up since the start of the pandemic? Do people know being healthy improves immune systems? Have they considered the connection? Are they aware?
Because the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.
 Everybody know that being in good shape is healthy, but not everybody is disciplined enough to make the sacrifices that good health requires.

Hedonism is seductive, convenience, and constantly pushed on us by our consumerist society. Ascetism is difficult, requires commitment, determination, and patience, and is often held in contempt by the people around us.

Telling people that they should be healthy is pretty insipid, as it's something that everybody already knows.
Rather than telling people what the (common knowledge) problem is, a far more constructive comment would be to share links to effective ways of becoming so.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Kyndo on January 13, 2022, 10:08:27 am
Cleaned up this thread a little bit to keep it on track: it was in danger of becoming another political argument. Mostly I just deleted insults and American red-team vs blue-team bickering. Apologies if something relevant got caught in the purge!

Let's get back to boosters and Wednesdays and stuff!
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: gogators! on January 13, 2022, 07:47:27 pm
Interesting factoid:
"The C.E.O. of United Airlines, Scott Kirby, said that while 3,000 employees recently tested positive for the virus, zero vaccinated employees were hospitalized. That’s a big change. Before the company enacted a vaccine mandate, an average of more than one United employee each week was dying from Covid."
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: L I on January 13, 2022, 08:39:32 pm
Glad to see you're a fan of CEOs now. But I'm wondering if what he's saying is true. I think so, but not !00% sure. And does recently mean within the past day?

Interesting factoid:

Bill Maher said the odds of hospitalization for an unvaccinated person who catches covid is 0.89%, while for a vaccinated person it's 0.01%.

For unvaccinated, it's below 1%, but for vaccinated it's waaayy below 1%.

TL;DR - For the overwhelming majority of the population, covid is not dangerous at all; however, we want to help that very small percentage for which it is.

Americans live very unhealthy lifestyles in general, as do people around the world. If they were healthier, there would be far fewer deaths.

Vaccines also help keep death rates down, and by a heck of a lot.
___________________ ___________________ ___________________ ___________

"Hi, I'm triple vaxxed. Can I has freedom?"

"No."

"ㅠ ㅠ."
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Adel on January 13, 2022, 11:05:54 pm
Glad to see you're a fan of CEOs now. But I'm wondering if what he's saying is true. I think so, but not !00% sure. And does recently mean within the past day?

Interesting factoid:

Bill Maher said the odds of hospitalization for an unvaccinated person who catches covid is 0.89%, while for a vaccinated person it's 0.01%.

For unvaccinated, it's below 1%, but for vaccinated it's waaayy below 1%.

TL;DR - For the overwhelming majority of the population, covid is not dangerous at all; however, we want to help that very small percentage for which it is.

Americans live very unhealthy lifestyles in general, as do people around the world. If they were healthier, there would be far fewer deaths.

Vaccines also help keep death rates down, and by a heck of a lot.
___________________ ___________________ ___________________ ___________

"Hi, I'm triple vaxxed. Can I has freedom?"

"No."

"ㅠ ㅠ."
It's a shame that after all this time you still fail to comprehend the significance of vaccinations and the protection that they  provide against the complete collapse of health care systems. If only Bill Maher or Stossel would provide a video to explain that to you. That way it might spare us from your parroting of more inane dribble.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: JNM on January 14, 2022, 12:47:23 am
Even if you accept these numbers, a 1% chance is a much higher risk than most people understand.

It is about the same as the child of a 40 year old woman having Down’s Syndrome.

It is about the same lifetime risk of dying from suicide, or opioid overdose, or traffic accident.




Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: gogators! on January 14, 2022, 04:22:24 am
Glad to see you're a fan of CEOs now. But I'm wondering if what he's saying is true. I think so, but not !00% sure.

One. Not a fanboy--that's your department.
Two. Why would he lie about this?
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: L I on January 14, 2022, 04:35:19 am
It’s not in his interest to say, “Our company policy is great.”? There’s financial incentive to do so. Meaning there could be bias. Potentially.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: L I on January 14, 2022, 04:48:29 am
CDC director Rochelle Walensky is being dragged over the coals for having had said:

“The overwhelming number of deaths, over 75%, occurred in people who had at least four comorbidities. So really these are people who were unwell to begin with.”

Should true information not be given because it’s offensive? Even if said information can save lives?

Those with multiple comorbidities should work to have less of them. That’d alleviate burden on the healthcare system.

Why are young, triple vaccinated teachers so afraid of dying from coronavirus? They have a warped perception of risk.

TL;DR - Get triple vaccinated…. and get healthy if you’re still afraid. After that stop living in fear. Not worth it. Better to enjoy life.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Adel on January 14, 2022, 05:06:27 am

Why are young, triple vaccinated teachers so afraid of dying from coronavirus? They have a warped perception of risk.

TL;DR - Get triple vaccinated…. and get healthy if you’re still afraid. After that stop living in fear. Not worth it. Better to enjoy life.

I don't know. I'm yet to come across any young triple vaccinated teachers that are afraid of dying from Covid. However I am aware of triple vaccinated people that are concerned about spreading the disease to more elderly family members and young co-teachers undergoing chemotherapy for breast cancer that are concerned about their compromised immune system that are not comforted by the fact the death would statistically insignificant.   
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: VanIslander on January 14, 2022, 05:10:23 am
Solution: become quadruple vaccinated. Right?
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: L I on January 14, 2022, 05:22:06 am
Yes. That’s on the horizon. Also, the healthier one is, the less likely they are to spread the disease, so gotta quit drinking and lose weight to protect the lives of nearby elderly family members with whom we interact as well as our colleagues who are undergoing chemotherapy for breast cancer.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Adel on January 14, 2022, 05:27:31 am
Solution: become quadruple vaccinated. Right?
A combination of vaccination, test trace isolate quarantine (TTIQ)  and continued social distancing measures, for the foreseeable future. That said , the IQ in the TTIQ needs refining a little with more widespread use of rapid antigen tests (RATs) as it's creating havoc for critical supply chains at present.

I'm yet to read any research that relates alcohol consumption and obesity with an increased risk of Covid infection. If you have any please provide it.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: L I on January 14, 2022, 08:51:03 am
Telling people that they should be healthy is pretty insipid, as it's something that everybody already knows.

Not true, as evidenced above. Heck, even you didn’t know until you saw a Bill Maher video.

That's actually pretty interesting. I never thought about links between obesity and increased Covid19 mortality rates.

https://www.waygook.org/index.php?topic=120430.msg836124#msg836124

(Informative videos in the link.)
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: L I on January 14, 2022, 08:54:52 am
I'm yet to read any research that relates alcohol consumption and obesity with an increased risk of Covid infection. If you have any please provide it.

Weakened immune system increases risk of catching and spreading Covid. Alcohol and obesity degrade overall health.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: hangook77 on January 14, 2022, 08:58:52 am
CDC director Rochelle Walensky is being dragged over the coals for having had said:

“The overwhelming number of deaths, over 75%, occurred in people who had at least four comorbidities. So really these are people who were unwell to begin with.”

Should true information not be given because it’s offensive? Even if said information can save lives?

Those with multiple comorbidities should work to have less of them. That’d alleviate burden on the healthcare system.

Why are young, triple vaccinated teachers so afraid of dying from coronavirus? They have a warped perception of risk.

TL;DR - Get triple vaccinated…. and get healthy if you’re still afraid. After that stop living in fear. Not worth it. Better to enjoy life.

Feelings matter more than facts.  You are not WOKE enough if you do not understand that.  Thankfully, Omicron seems to be weaker than the previous strains. 
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Adel on January 14, 2022, 09:24:18 am
Weakened immune system increases risk of catching and spreading Covid. Alcohol and obesity degrade overall health.

No evidence for a direct link then? Just more Bill theory?
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: gogators! on January 14, 2022, 10:44:32 am
It’s not in his interest to say, “Our company policy is great.”? There’s financial incentive to do so. Meaning there could be bias. Potentially.
His remarks were factual and would be pretty easy to refute by someone unhappy with the policy if untrue. So it would not be in his interest to fabricate results.

It WOULD, however, be in the interest of an entertainer who needs viewers/clicks to sustain his career to at the very least stretch the truth.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: gogators! on January 14, 2022, 10:47:38 am
CDC director Rochelle Walensky is being dragged over the coals for having had said:

“The overwhelming number of deaths, over 75%, occurred in people who had at least four comorbidities. So really these are people who were unwell to begin with.”



Should true information not be given because it’s offensive? Even if said information can save lives?

Those with multiple comorbidities should work to have less of them. That’d alleviate burden on the healthcare system.

Why are young, triple vaccinated teachers so afraid of dying from coronavirus? They have a warped perception of risk.

TL;DR - Get triple vaccinated…. and get healthy if you’re still afraid. After that stop living in fear. Not worth it. Better to enjoy life.
Dragged over the coals you say. By who? Do you have a link?

Those folks got those comorbidities by enjoying life.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: L I on January 14, 2022, 10:52:18 am
His remarks were factual and would be pretty easy to refute by someone unhappy with the policy if untrue.

Actually, no, because “recently” is not a defined number. It can neither be proven nor disproven.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: gogators! on January 14, 2022, 10:58:55 am
Actually, no, because “recently” is not a defined number. It can neither be proven nor disproven.
Something doesn't have to be a number to be a fact. Anyone with a lick of common sense would know he's talking about the Omicron surge when he says recently. Maybe your OS needs an update.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: gogators! on January 14, 2022, 11:02:39 am
It’s been all over the news. You didn’t see?

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/covid-cdc-disability-comorbidity-anger-1282759/amp/

Not a frequent reader of RS.

It shows how many, such as yourself, view the disabled with disdain rather than compassion.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: L I on January 14, 2022, 11:08:43 am
Obesity is a disability? Well, it doesn’t have to be permanent. One can change from disabled to abled in the majority of cases. I hope more people around the world will lessen their number of comorbidities through lifestyle change. That’d be better for both them and society at large.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on January 14, 2022, 12:51:38 pm
Not a frequent reader of RS.

It shows how many, such as yourself, view the disabled with disdain rather than compassion.
First thing that jumps in my head, or anyone's head, when they think of gogators!- compassionate.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr C on January 14, 2022, 02:03:59 pm
First thing that jumps in my head, or anyone's head, when they think of gogators!- compassionate.

Compared to LI, my left shoe is compassionate.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: L I on January 14, 2022, 02:18:13 pm
Life saving advice is compassion. Quality of life improving advice is compassion. Those who react angrily and defensively towards it have issues. It’s just information.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr C on January 14, 2022, 02:41:26 pm
Life saving advice is compassion. Quality of life improving advice is compassion. Those who react angrily and defensively towards it have issues. It’s just information.

1) it's bad information.
2) Dude, "One can change from disabled to abled in the majority of cases." is not life saving advice, it is some bizarre fantasy or something.  I should tell my friend, "You really should just give up that Crohn's Disease" or my nephew, "Hey, when you got that cancer when you were a teenager, that was a poor choice, but happily you can change.  This highly compassionate, all-knowing guy on the internet says so." "Psst, Tammy Duckworth, if you really tried, you could re-grow your legs."
3) I would like to see your stats on "the majority" of disabled people, O Compassionate One.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Adel on January 14, 2022, 02:44:41 pm
Thank god for Li. Truly a lifesaver. Where would we be without his sagely and insightful advice.
Who would have thought losing a weight and adopting a healthier life-style would be a good idea?  :rolleyes:
I must tell my sister that after her next bout of chemo and after she rides her bike 100kms over the weekend.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Kyndo on January 14, 2022, 02:49:24 pm
But you're not offering life saving advice. You're telling hard truths to people (us) who already very much already aware of them and are probably already acting on it. Thus, rather than giving unpleasant but important advice, you're just reiterating unpleasant things that we already know and would rather not dwell on.
The effectiveness of information often depends on the format on which it's delivered.

Yes, maintaining good physical condition *is* important. Yes, it absolutely *does* bolsters our immune systems and will help us survive viral infections. 100% true, undeniably so. But repeating these facts shows a certain tone-deafness that can be construed as a lack of compassion.
  It might be to your benefit to address the issue from a lateral approach: rather than stating "people who choose to be in poor health are more likely to experience more extreme covid19 symptoms", it might be more socially-acceptable -- and beneficial -- to think of effective strategies that would correct correct the issue.

After all, research has proven time and time again that "fat-shaming" is actually *counter-productive*. Motivation for self improvement is very closely linked to ego and self-worth: undermine the one, and you undermine the other.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: L I on January 14, 2022, 03:02:57 pm
Those who take offense to weight loss advice are overweight. It’s obvious. Those who take offense to messages about how alcohol is harmful are beer drinkers. Also obvious. They are angrily denying what I’m saying is true. Then when that doesn’t work, resort to other attacks.

About the other bit, I guess someone switched words that have loose definitions. We were originally talking about comorbidities. Are those disabilities? And what is a disability? There’s a hell of a lot that people can change that’s under their control. Bringing up outlier cases to shut down discussion, thus retarding progress isn’t compassionate.

Those studies… don’t seem to be correct. Read a bit; looks flawed. Look at places with body positivity. Obesity goes up. Conversely, East Asia is the opposite.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: L I on January 14, 2022, 03:09:38 pm
Why is it OK to say, “Those who didn’t get the vaccine deserve to die,” as many posters have been saying, often the same ones who say I lack compassion. That’s really cruel. I don’t wish death or sickness on anyone.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: L I on January 14, 2022, 03:18:58 pm
After all, research has proven time and time again that "fat-shaming" is actually *counter-productive*.

It hasn’t though. I read some of those SJW “studies”. Used words like may and could be. Surveyed people.

I’m not saying to fat shame, but it does appear to work. Look at adults in Korea.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Adel on January 14, 2022, 03:25:51 pm
Those who take offense to weight loss advice are overweight. It’s obvious. Those who take offense to messages about how alcohol is harmful are beer drinkers. Also obvious. They are angrily denying what I’m saying is true. Then when that doesn’t work, resort to other attacks.

About the other bit, I guess someone switched words that have loose definitions. We were originally talking about comorbidities. Are those disabilities? And what is a disability? There’s a hell of a lot that people can change that’s under their control. Bringing up outlier cases to shut down discussion, thus retarding progress isn’t compassionate.

Those studies… don’t seem to be correct. Read a bit; looks flawed. Look at places with body positivity. Obesity goes up. Conversely, East Asia is the opposite.

I'm just wondering if you'd find posters constantly offering therapy advice for individuals suffering autism and suggesting the screening of foreigners for obvious mental issues before providing E2 visa would be a good idea?
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: L I on January 14, 2022, 03:27:26 pm
Yeah, I don’t have autism, nor am I a moron, as you often asserted. Nice try, o compassionate one.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Adel on January 14, 2022, 03:30:11 pm
Yeah, I don’t have autism, nor am I a moron, as you often asserted. Nice try, o compassionate one.
So I guess you wouldn't have a problem with therapy advice and screening foreigners, is that how you were trying to answer that question?

But seriously, a lot of us would have an alternative opinion.
The first step is acknowledging there is a problem. 

https://exceptionalindividuals.com/candidates/neurodiversity-resources/neurodiversity-quizzes/autism-quiz-test/
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Kyndo on January 14, 2022, 04:40:29 pm
It hasn’t though. I read some of those SJW “studies”. Used words like may and could be. Surveyed people.

I’m not saying to fat shame, but it does appear to work. Look at adults in Korea.
LI, shame on you. You didn't fact check at all, did you?
There has been tonnes of research into this exact topic, and there's a pretty clear consensus: fat shaming directly causes a negative impact on health and often leads to weight gain.
Here are some articles on the topic, all from very reputable sources (ie not SJW sources):

"Fat Shaming is making people sicker and heavier"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6565398/
"“Fat Shaming” Won’t Solve Obesity. Science Might."
https://labblog.uofmhealth.org/body-work/fat-shaming-wont-solve-obesity-science-might
"The Scarlet F: Why Fat Shaming Harms Health"
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/magazine/magazine_article/the-scarlet-f/
"The Harmful Effects of Fat Shaming"
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/fat-shaming-makes-things-worse
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on January 14, 2022, 05:47:52 pm
Counterpoint: East Asia vs. the West in attitudes towards obesity and how people treat each other when it comes to obesity and outcomes related to obesity.

Sometimes lab experiments by scientists can be blind to the obvious and miss things.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: L I on January 14, 2022, 06:09:27 pm
Reading the comments:

My Korean karate instructor told me one day, "You are getting fat!" I took a look at myself and realized he was right. I changed my lifestyle and lost weight and never have been fat since. I never felt anything but gratitude for that man saying that to me.
________

Yeah, Koreans do this, I think it is bad ass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hUbTwOErTk

I was fat until I got a new Dr. at 15. the old wise Korean Doctor said "You're a male you're not supposed to have breasts.."
I lost all the weight and told him he's the greatest Doctor I ever had.
Other Doctors would just blame my parents for bringing in the grocery's and it never helped anything.. Go figure

________

Those Korean doctors will give it to you straight.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: L I on January 14, 2022, 06:24:09 pm
Fat shaming fxxking works! It worked on me. It was hurtful but I'm happier and healthier because of it. And the look on their faces is priceless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_UXyBkA-Z0

Fat shaming is how I got my life together. It wakes you up big time. I do enjoy food in moderation but I was shamed for trying to kill the father my daughter deserves. I have cut off the people who encouraged that bad lifestyle becus now they shame me for now being a Chad.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: grimlock2 on January 14, 2022, 08:31:24 pm
LI, shame on you. You didn't fact check at all, did you?
There has been tonnes of research into this exact topic, and there's a pretty clear consensus: fat shaming directly causes a negative impact on health and often leads to weight gain.
Here are some articles on the topic, all from very reputable sources (ie not SJW sources):

"Fat Shaming is making people sicker and heavier"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6565398/
"“Fat Shaming” Won’t Solve Obesity. Science Might."
https://labblog.uofmhealth.org/body-work/fat-shaming-wont-solve-obesity-science-might
"The Scarlet F: Why Fat Shaming Harms Health"
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/magazine/magazine_article/the-scarlet-f/
"The Harmful Effects of Fat Shaming"
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/fat-shaming-makes-things-worse

You guys are f..ing dillusional. Of course the only way to get people to ditch bad habits is for them to recognise they're doing themselves harm and stop doing it.  People just aren't going to do that if they blame someone or something else, it's common sense.

If you poll obese people, of course they'll say fat shaming doesn't work. The only way to survey it properly would be to poll people who have lost a lot of weight and kept it off.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Savant on January 14, 2022, 08:47:03 pm
I'm all for fat-shaming fat people - not the Korean idea of fat-shaming, in that, you're fat if not really thin.

If you spend your whole life eating fast-food and can't work because you're just too f@cking fat then I don't want my taxpayer money paying for any treatment that fatto needs because of overeating. The idea that those fattos needs to pay for 2 airline seats also works for me; hell, they should be forced to pay for a whole row.

If it's a medical condition that causes someone to put weight on then that's fine. But if you're fat because you just eat unhealthy food and don't exercise then get off your fat f@cking ass and do something about it.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: gogators! on January 14, 2022, 08:58:29 pm
Obesity is a disability? Well, it doesn’t have to be permanent. One can change from disabled to abled in the majority of cases. I hope more people around the world will lessen their number of comorbidities through lifestyle change. That’d be better for both them and society at large.
I'm just repeating what was the main thrust of the article you linked to. Did you read the article?
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: gogators! on January 14, 2022, 09:09:14 pm
Fat shaming doesn't have a chance against Madison Ave. It's the billions of dollars spent getting people to eat too much of foods that fatten you up and clog your arteries that's at work here, not laziness. Don't forget the industries created to cater to the obese, from diet companies to clothing manufacturers.

There are many studies on how diets and will power don't work. Even when people lose weight it too often comes back.

It takes a complete change of lifestyle which many can't do in their current circumstances.

It's a tough, tough road to hoe and I feel for those in that situation. But it is disgusting when you see obese parents with obese children. They've passed on their eating habits rather than teaching their children to learn from their mistakes.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Adel on January 15, 2022, 01:33:30 am
I'm all for fat-shaming fat people - not the Korean idea of fat-shaming, in that, you're fat if not really thin.

If you spend your whole life eating fast-food and can't work because you're just too f@cking fat then I don't want my taxpayer money paying for any treatment that fatto needs because of overeating. The idea that those fattos needs to pay for 2 airline seats also works for me; hell, they should be forced to pay for a whole row.

If it's a medical condition that causes someone to put weight on then that's fine. But if you're fat because you just eat unhealthy food and don't exercise then get off your fat f@cking ass and do something about it.

Don't know dude but that sounds kind of old school.  I'm much more in favour of inadvertent fat shaming when it comes to people who are capable of doing better.  I mean, I'm sure most people feel completely inferior when they witness my rock hard glutes, broad shoulders and solid pecs,  but I try to encourage them with positive advice like 'you've got to really suffer a lot to look this good'.   ;D
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: gogators! on January 15, 2022, 01:39:58 am
A lot of advice on here can be taken with a grain of salt since it comes mostly from people with nothing but time of their hands. Plenty of people do jobs that require actual hard work with long hours rather than just downloading PPT presentations and then clicking a mouse.

Wouldn't it be cool if carpenters or plumbers could just download a photo of what something looks like without actually having to build/install it?
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Adel on January 15, 2022, 03:30:31 am
A lot of advice on here can be taken with a grain of salt since it comes mostly from people with nothing but time of their hands. Plenty of people do jobs that require actual hard work with long hours rather than just downloading PPT presentations and then clicking a mouse.

Wouldn't it be cool if carpenters or plumbers could just download a photo of what something looks like without actually having to build/install it?

This is true. Not everyone is fortunate enough to have enough free time to spend at the gym. That said, I find a lot the gym compatriots at my local gym that work long hours in rather diverse professions find the time for exercise most mornings by arriving at about 6am and departing by about 7.30. Sure, I'm usually more hard core myself, rockin up at about 4.30 am, but my lifestyle offers much greater freedom in my daily routine. 
That said, exercise is only part of the equation. When I lived in Korea, my greatest challenge was avoiding fast convenience food. Since returning home though, one of the greatest benefits would have to be the availability,  variety and convenience of access to fresh inexpensive produce allowing one to easily prepare their own food. In Korea though, it was hard enough just finding a decent healthy loaf of whole meal bread, let alone anything decent enough to put on a sandwich.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQu9pGtNQUt6flkLFuWXPj1gg1XNGxCDrRr-A&usqp=CAU)
 However since returning home, I don't think I've eaten at McDonalds for at least a couple of years, but I do recall treating myself to KFC once last year. 
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Adel on January 15, 2022, 06:04:43 am
Solution: become quadruple vaccinated. Right?


A combination of vaccination, test trace isolate quarantine (TTIQ)  and continued social distancing measures, for the foreseeable future. That said , the IQ in the TTIQ needs refining a little with more widespread use of rapid antigen tests (RATs) as it's creating havoc for critical supply chains at present.



This TTIQ strategy is really becoming an issue with the Omicron surge as it's becoming increasingly difficult to use logistically intensive PCR testing with so many infections and limited availability of RATs.
Skip to 1min 50sec mark of this video for an explanation of it in parts of Canada.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRycK82LsTE&t=1452s
It has been a massive problem in Australia, as PCR tests have been rationed and are eventually being replaced in favour of RATs once they become more available.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Kyndo on January 15, 2022, 08:23:08 am
Of course the only way to get people to ditch bad habits is for them to recognise they're doing themselves harm and stop doing it.
That's not fat shaming.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: L I on January 15, 2022, 08:34:18 am
Is saying obesity is correlated with worse Covid outcomes fat shaming? Would that cause people to eat more food, thus becoming fatter due to feeling bad more than it would spur people to lose weight? Seems like it wouldn’t.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Savant on January 15, 2022, 08:36:13 am
Don't know dude but that sounds kind of old school.  I'm much more in favour of inadvertent fat shaming when it comes to people who are capable of doing better.  I mean, I'm sure most people feel completely inferior when they witness my rock hard glutes, broad shoulders and solid pecs,  but I try to encourage them with positive advice like 'you've got to really suffer a lot to look this good'.   ;D

I don't know what more can be done. But fat people have to want to help themselves. If they don't care that their obesity can lead to a whole myriad of future health problems then that's on them. Yes, it takes willpower and will be hard but if the options are death or living then you've kind of got to make an effort. Take baby steps: go for a walk instead of sinking into the sofa with a KFC bucket to watch the latest episode of "The Voice" or at least take the KFC bucket on the walk with you /snark.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: grimlock2 on January 15, 2022, 08:57:08 am
That's not fat shaming.  :rolleyes:

Like most negative terms thesedays that would all depend on your perspective and a person's feelings. Just using the word 'fat' instead of 'big' or 'large' would be considered fat shaming by some people.

According to the dictionary fat shaming is mocking or criticising someone because of their weight. So how is telling someone they're fat because they eat too much of the wrong food and don't exercise enough and it's entirely their own fault (unless they have a medical condition, obviously) not being critical? But that's what people have to accept before they can properly change.

And no, people shouldn't go saying this to random strangers but to people they care about or come to them for professional advice.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: VanIslander on January 15, 2022, 10:17:51 am
Vegans have the lowest BMI and fewest heart attacks. So skip the sausages, beef, pork, chicken, fish, butter, milk and cheese.

Sorry. I am not fat shaming. I guess I'm health shaming?

If so, then so too are those who speak of obesity-related scientific research.

Fat shaming used to be about making fun of individuals, pointing a finger at someone, not spouting science.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Savant on January 15, 2022, 10:25:12 am
Vegans have the lowest BMI and fewest heart attacks. So skip the sausages, beef, pork, chicken, fish, butter, milk and cheese.

Sorry. I am not fat shaming. I guess I'm health shaming?

If so, then so too are those who speak of obesity-related scientific research.

Fat shaming used to be about making fun of individuals, pointing a finger at someone, not spouting science.

Vegans have a higher risk of strokes than meat-eaters according to a quick google into scientific research.

Eat in moderation seems to be the way. Have your steak but have it with a lot of vegetables, maybe, with a sweet potato instead of fries. Eat fruit everyday and drinks lots of water.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Adel on January 15, 2022, 10:28:40 am
Is saying obesity is correlated with worse Covid outcomes fat shaming? Would that cause people to eat more food, thus becoming fatter due to feeling bad more than it would spur people to lose weight? Seems like it wouldn’t.

No, but promoting fat shaming in red ink is.

Fat shaming fxxking works! It worked on me. It was hurtful but I'm happier and healthier because of it. And the look on their faces is priceless.

Fat shaming is how I got my life together. It wakes you up big time. I do enjoy food in moderation but I was shamed for trying to kill the father my daughter deserves. I have cut off the people who encouraged that bad lifestyle becus now they shame me for now being a Chad.

Most people without some form of cognitive deficit would understand that.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: WhenInRome... on January 15, 2022, 10:34:56 am
Im not fat, im husky, and Im brave for it. Anyone can eat right and exercise, but Im bold for being rather stout.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: L I on January 15, 2022, 10:40:11 am
No, but promoting fat shaming in red ink is.

Most people without some form of cognitive deficit would understand that.

That was other people’s comments. They said it worked. This was posted in response to an assertion fat shaming makes people fatter. Does it? Seems it also makes people thinner. It does in some cases. Quite a few. Do you even care about what is true or are just an ideologue not open to changing his mind?
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: WhenInRome... on January 15, 2022, 10:51:39 am
I think Lizzo is really brave!

People say I look like Lizzo!... If Lizzo had eaten Lizzo...

So I'm extra brave ;)

That's what my non-binary partner tells me. :)
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Kyndo on January 15, 2022, 12:10:43 pm
Like most negative terms thesedays that would all depend on your perspective and a person's feelings. Just using the word 'fat' instead of 'big' or 'large' would be considered fat shaming by some people.

According to the dictionary fat shaming is mocking or criticising someone because of their weight. So how is telling someone they're fat because they eat too much of the wrong food and don't exercise enough and it's entirely their own fault (unless they have a medical condition, obviously) not being critical? But that's what people have to accept before they can properly change.

And no, people shouldn't go saying this to random strangers but to people they care about or come to them for professional advice.

Ah, OK.

Just to clarify, I don't think that what LI or anybody else on this thread are saying should be considered fat shaming.

   Relating information about the benefits of a healthy life style and a good BMI is entirely beneficial and only the most sensitive individuals (and people looking for something to argue about) would consider that to be fat shaming.

  While LI's writing style can come across as insensitive at times, I certainly wasn't accusing him of fat shaming.


This was posted in response to an assertion fat shaming makes people fatter. Does it? Seems it also makes people thinner. It does in some cases. Quite a few. Do you even care about what is true or are just an ideologue not open to changing his mind?
Did you click the links?
 Actual fat shaming has long been known to be counterproductive. There are have been many long term studies on the topic.
It might be effective for some individuals - you mentioned a few examples, and I have no reason to believe that it wasn't true in their case - but on a statistical level it has been shown to be ineffective. Read the studies if you're interested in learning why.

Please note, this relates to weight related harassment and citisism (Ie" You're so fat that you have two zip codes. It makes you ugly. Like you hit every branch falling out of the ugly tree. Lose weight!") not explaining the benefits of healthy living. That's a-OK.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on January 15, 2022, 12:29:50 pm
"Korean people are unhealthy skinny."- Someone with a life expectancy 10 years less and risk of serious health complications 40% greater based on weight and diet who has convinced themselves that hospitals are overflowing with slender people, not the pudgy.

Because Japan is renowned for its low life expectancy and health issues or something...
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Mr C on January 15, 2022, 01:11:55 pm
Obesity is a disability? Well, it doesn’t have to be permanent. One can change from disabled to abled in the majority of cases. I hope more people around the world will lessen their number of comorbidities through lifestyle change. That’d be better for both them and society at large.
I'm just waiting for your source, statistics or evidence on this statement.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: L I on January 15, 2022, 01:20:30 pm
In the context of obesity being a disability, it is absolutely true. Less calories equals less weight.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: VanIslander on January 15, 2022, 02:24:59 pm
MOD note: (several personal attack posts deleted)

 Instead of insulting the person, criticize the idea. This isn't Twitter. We are not to tolerate personal attacks.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: VanIslander on January 15, 2022, 02:37:05 pm
Vegans have a higher risk of strokes than meat-eaters according to a quick google into scientific research.

Eat in moderation seems to be the way. Have your steak but have it with a lot of vegetables, maybe, with a sweet potato instead of fries. Eat fruit everyday.....
Agreed with all except "have your steak".

Vegans have more hemorrhagic strokes (the bleeding kind) but less ischemic strokes (the blockage kind). True.

But A LOT more people die of heart attacks than strokes and vegans have significantly less heart attacks than beef eaters. This is fact. There are so many studies showing it. Google the science.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Kyndo on January 16, 2022, 11:45:22 am
Everybody dies of something, vegan or not. I think a better comparison would be to look at average life expectancy of the 2 groups.
... Although, given that the popular vegan lifestyle is still in its infancy, it might be difficult to get stats on vegan mortality.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: Sagi Keun on January 17, 2022, 09:53:55 pm
Let's kick this thing in the ass.

Lol.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: L I on January 17, 2022, 10:02:04 pm
Pfizer boss Albert Bourla said the “most likely scenario” is that coronavirus will be circulating for many years to come.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/pfizer-ceo-virus-will-be-here-for-years-but-this-may-be-last-wave-with-restrictions/amp/

“It’s important that people receive the three-dose regimen of Pfizer’s coronavirus vaccine, and will likely then require annual boosters although the immunocompromised could require them every four months,” Bourla said.
Title: Re: Boosters available Wednesday!
Post by: gogators! on January 17, 2022, 10:16:02 pm
Pfizer boss Albert Bourla said the “most likely scenario” is that coronavirus will be circulating for many years to come.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/pfizer-ceo-virus-will-be-here-for-years-but-this-may-be-last-wave-with-restrictions/amp/

“It’s important that people receive the three-dose regimen of Pfizer’s coronavirus vaccine, and will likely then require annual boosters although the immunocompromised could require them every four months,” Bourla said.

LOL. You criticize my post quoting a CEO for bias and now you post a statement from a CEO with an obvious conflict of interest.