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All about South Korea => Life in Korea => Topic started by: VanIslander on December 09, 2021, 12:56:45 am

Title: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: VanIslander on December 09, 2021, 12:56:45 am
I have thought about this over my years here.

I eat a lot more raw greens, garlic and onions; yet I breathe a lot more bad air.

I eat a lot more anti-inflammatory seafood, but I eat a lot more inflammatory instant noodles.

I walk a lot safer streets on urban nights; yet I drive more dangerous roads due to taxis, trucks and buses from hell.

And so on.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: gogators! on December 09, 2021, 01:10:11 am
Walking should be high up on the list of healthy things, poor air quality for unhealthy aspects.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: JNM on December 09, 2021, 02:33:40 am
I just eat regular seafood and noodles.  I don稚 try to light them on fire.  But I agree, noodles burn better than clams.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: Adel on December 09, 2021, 06:35:10 am
I just eat regular seafood and noodles.  I don稚 try to light them on fire.  But I agree, noodles burn better than clams.

This is something that I used to get into. Those fresh live cockles and muscles were cheap and available in local super markets.
The cockles worked a treat in my pasta vongole.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: AvecPommesFrites on December 09, 2021, 08:47:48 am
Vanislander producing the goods here.

I often wonder what life would be like breathing clean air and seeing an animal once in a while.

I'm still amazed that as we approach 2022 Korean government don't require calories or nutritional information on ALL food items and drinks. Oh look some bulgogi sauce this has 'make your own calories and guess your own sodium content'.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: kevingrabb on December 09, 2021, 09:16:22 am
A lot of Korean nutrition labels are good, but a lot of them are shit. They are size 3 font and smashed together at the end of the giant list of EVERYTHING on the package. ITs like cramming a page of a book into a 3cmx2m square. It's atrocious. Nevermind the fact that it's in a language I don't fully understand, that's not the point. The point is it sucks.

This? This is gold standard stuff.

(http://www.bokuennews.com/data/photos/cdn/20170415/art_1491981801.jpg)
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: VanIslander on December 09, 2021, 10:13:02 am
As long as I get a heated sweet potato at 2am as an impulse point-of-purchase (POP) while going to the local convenience store (who am i kidding; back home we call them "corner stores"), all is good. Bokbunja helps the cardiovascular system, according to science, so sure, add it.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: MayorHaggar on December 09, 2021, 02:18:30 pm
Unhealthy: a lot of restaurant and supermarket food in Korea is basically rotten.

Healthy: you'll lose weight because the food will go straight into the toilet instead of making you put on the pounds!
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: VanIslander on December 09, 2021, 02:25:30 pm
Healthy: you'll lose weight because the food will go straight into the toilet instead of making you put on the pounds!
Fiber, yeah. That's partially why Koreans live longer statistically (by a few years).
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: tylerthegloob on December 09, 2021, 02:29:08 pm
is "rotten food" haggar's "2.1"?
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 09, 2021, 02:35:02 pm
is "rotten food" haggar's "2.1"?
If it's not that, it's him describing Korean food as "dishes with weeds".
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: MayorHaggar on December 10, 2021, 11:51:00 am
is "rotten food" haggar's "2.1"?

Dumb people on waygook: "oh yeah Korean food is so fresh. The food at Korean restaurants and grocery stores is definitely all fresh and 100% fit for human consumption."

Any Westerner with a brain who's spent 5 minutes in South Korea:

(https://c.tenor.com/WuYaPi5SLI8AAAAC/michael-jordan-laugh.gif)
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 10, 2021, 12:28:21 pm
Dumb people on waygook: "oh yeah Korean food is so fresh. The food at Korean restaurants and grocery stores is definitely all fresh and 100% fit for human consumption."

Any Westerner with a brain who's spent 5 minutes in South Korea:
There's a middle ground between "It's all rotten" and "It's all fresh".

I don't think a person who claims Koreans are eating "weeds" has much credibility when it comes to discussing the state of food in the country.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: VanIslander on December 10, 2021, 12:38:20 pm
One of the greatest testaments to Korean food culture is the VARIETY of fresh, clean prepped kinds of lettuce at every local supermarket. It is remarkable. And the height of nutrition.

Now, putting grilled fatty pork inside a lettuce leaf is pretty unhealthy, but one can sub garlic, onion, hot peppers and sauce instead.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: tylerthegloob on December 10, 2021, 12:39:09 pm
WRONG! dmarteeno. it's obviously all rotten. that's why almost all foreign teachers willingly consume their school lunches every day (school lunches that they know to be rotten inside their big brains). mayorhaggar and all the other MENSA members know what kind of sick stuff is really going in there
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 10, 2021, 12:58:31 pm
WRONG! dmarteeno. it's obviously all rotten. that's why almost all foreign teachers willingly consume their school lunches every day (school lunches that they know to be rotten inside their big brains). mayorhaggar and all the other MENSA members know what kind of sick stuff is really going in there
Yeah, I wager that it is far more likely that the entire nation of South Korea is just one giant land of endemic salmonella and e-coli that somehow has bamboozled the WHO and the U.S. State Dept. into not realizing it. Certainly more likely than Mayor Haggar himself having a psychosomatic response and allowing his own personal dislike of the place to cloud his judgment.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: Chinguetti on December 10, 2021, 01:05:17 pm
Now, putting grilled fatty pork inside a lettuce leaf is pretty unhealthy, but one can sub garlic, onion, hot peppers and sauce instead.

How about using all of the above?

Love me some greasy pork with grilled garlic and gochujang. Or with grilled kimchi.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: pkjh on December 10, 2021, 04:36:12 pm
Where's all the rotting food in the super markets? Never had an issue.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: VanIslander on December 10, 2021, 06:29:59 pm
Oddly, the only place I have had rotten vegetables was the 5-day market, where the green peppers sometimes are brown or black inside, the onions soft, shriveling and/or growing the green stalk and the tomatoes liquified inside.

Back home we used to go to the farmers' market to get fresher produce than supermarkets!
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: jamsilnaynay on December 28, 2021, 07:10:05 pm
Avocados in Korea are pretty awful. 90% of the avos I bought in the supermarket went rotten even before ripening


Healthy: walking everywhere, public transportation, lots of hills

Unhealthy: air quality, long work hours, a lot of sugar in unexpected places
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: hippo on December 29, 2021, 01:19:04 am
I am surprised no one mentioned alcohol.  Being encouraged to drink alcohol regularly at work settings and in one's social life so much is unhealthy.  Having soju so cheap doesn't help either. 

People need to get intoxicated.  But not like this.  One of the few things I like about the pandemic is being able to drink in moderate amounts.  In reality, no amount of alcohol is healthy but I think having a tall boy or two is lot less unhealthy than what I have normally been expected to drink.  At times, I have flippantly thought about converting to some religion so I don't have to drink. 



Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on December 29, 2021, 08:15:46 am
People need to get intoxicated.

Why? I know plenty of people, including myself who have never felt the need or desire to get intoxicated.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: hippo on December 29, 2021, 03:41:18 pm
People need to get intoxicated.

Why? I know plenty of people, including myself who have never felt the need or desire to get intoxicated.

Not every individual. But becoming intoxicated at least occasionally is a popular human behavior.

Some healthy things I like about Korea include an outstanding public transportation system, which is good for the environment, and plenty of outdoor places to exercise.  I like hiking and there is never a mountain too far away in Korea. 
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: chimp on December 29, 2021, 06:44:29 pm
Yeh hippo, don't you know that confusedlolfer doesn't drink? Your observation that people tend to like a drink, supporting a multi-billion dollar industry in the process, is totally invalid. How can he make dull and priggish posts if the room is spinning?
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on December 29, 2021, 09:22:09 pm
Yeh hippo, don't you know that confusedlolfer doesn't drink? Your observation that people tend to like a drink, supporting a multi-billion dollar industry in the process, is totally invalid. How can he make dull and priggish posts if the room is spinning?

Chimp, the only thing that is invalid, is your comment.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: Sagi Keun on December 30, 2021, 09:14:28 am
Where's all the rotting food in the super markets? Never had an issue.

Its all greenhouse produce though in Korea.

Less tasty and probably less nutritive. Aquaponics etc


That's why i always buy the more expensive organic stuff.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: MayorHaggar on December 30, 2021, 10:34:32 am
I am surprised no one mentioned alcohol. 

Oh man. Drinking is so bad in Korea. The green bottle soju is the only non-beer thing Koreans drink and it's basically poison. As for beer, you pretty much usually only have Hite or Cass to choose from, the two worst beers on the planet. Better Korean beers are available but most of the time when you go to a restaurant the coolers are just full of Hite or Cass. Foreign beers tend to be horrifically expensive because of protectionist tariffs, and a lot of them are low-quality versions of international beers. This is really noticeable if you drink Tsingtao or a few other foreign beers, I can't remember which ones were the worst offenders but Tsingtao was definitely one of them. The 500ml can versions are usually the worst.

I did find some good foreign beers here and there like Hoegaarden Grand Cru and Morretti Doppio Malto, but you'd usually be paying like twice what you would in the US or Europe.

Also there are amazing brands of soju from Andong, there's one with an owl on the label but I can't remember the name. Very smooth to drink and it won't give you a horrible hangover from just one glass like the green bottle shit will. Bring it to a hoesik and give it to all your Korean workmates and they'll all get really red-faced and drunk because they aren't used to drinking anything but the green bottle shit.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 30, 2021, 11:07:51 am
Oh man. Drinking is so bad in Korea. The green bottle soju is the only non-beer thing Koreans drink and it's basically poison. As for beer, you pretty much usually only have Hite or Cass to choose from, the two worst beers on the planet. Better Korean beers are available but most of the time when you go to a restaurant the coolers are just full of Hite or Cass. Foreign beers tend to be horrifically expensive because of protectionist tariffs, and a lot of them are low-quality versions of international beers. This is really noticeable if you drink Tsingtao or a few other foreign beers, I can't remember which ones were the worst offenders but Tsingtao was definitely one of them. The 500ml can versions are usually the worst.

I did find some good foreign beers here and there like Hoegaarden Grand Cru and Morretti Doppio Malto, but you'd usually be paying like twice what you would in the US or Europe.

MayorHaggar how long has it been since you've been in Korea?

Because everything you've written is comically wrong.

1) If you think Cass/Hite are the worst, you clearly don't know the depths of beer. Blatz, Black Label, Milwaukee's Best, Busch Light all are worse and that's before we get to Schlitz and Camo Black Ice.

2) Terra has pretty much pushed out Hite. Kloud had its moment too.

3) All alcohol is basically poison.

4) Foreign beers are not horrifically expensive. Maybe because you're in a bar charging 250% markup but that's every bar around the planet that isn't a dive.

5) Uhhh...you know what the price is for 4 500 ml cans of foreign beer is, right? Like I think it's basically the same as Australia.

Dude, I kind of think you either need to return Korea or stop posting on Korean-related stuff because you're just out of touch at this point. And that's before we get to the bigoted nature of some of your past takes.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: pkjh on December 30, 2021, 05:01:52 pm
Beers run for like 4 for 10k-won. Pretty cheap imo.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: Orkblut on April 10, 2022, 03:35:11 pm
One of the greatest testaments to Korean food culture is the VARIETY of fresh, clean prepped kinds of lettuce at every local supermarket. It is remarkable. And the height of nutrition.

How is this different from your average Western European supermarket? Genuinely curious.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: VanIslander on April 10, 2022, 06:17:03 pm
How is this different from your average Western European supermarket? Genuinely curious.
Your average American supermarket doesn't have it. You have to cut up and clean the leafy greens yourself, and buy in prepackaged form, not weighed self-selected amounts.

Europe? I have no idea.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: VanIslander on April 10, 2022, 06:21:50 pm
People need to get intoxicated.

Why? I know plenty of people, including myself who have never felt the need or desire to get intoxicated.
Every tight *** overly-wound-up stiff i've met doesn't drink. Male & female.

It is a basic tenet of psychology.
No wonder they have more heart attacks.
They don't unwind, relax and go with the flow sometimes.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: VanIslander on April 10, 2022, 08:09:43 pm
Also knew heaps of people that didn't drink, preferring to smoke.
Heaps? In Korea?

Marijuana smokers in Vancouver, yeah.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: Sagi Keun on April 10, 2022, 09:24:58 pm

Oh man. Drinking is so bad in Korea.

The winter air is very dry here and will dehydrate you quicker than elsewhere.

Meaning you're more likely to wake up with a horrendous hangover.

Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: VanIslander on April 11, 2022, 03:38:26 am
The winter air is very dry here and will dehydrate you quicker than elsewhere.

Meaning you're more likely to wake up with a horrendous hangover.
I was told 20 years ago: drink two glasses of water after a night of soju and you'll only wake up to an eager piss in the bowl. Not being much of a drinker, i took it to heart, and dang, it has served me well.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: hangook77 on April 11, 2022, 12:47:55 pm
The winter air is very dry here and will dehydrate you quicker than elsewhere.

Meaning you're more likely to wake up with a horrendous hangover.



A lot of that is due to the gas heat inside your apartment.  It will dry you out.  You need a high quality humidifier to counter balance that.  It will help a lot though not undo all of it. 
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: Kyndo on April 11, 2022, 01:49:48 pm
For those with gas heating, that's certainly true.
Another factor is that cold fronts during the winter originate from the Siberian landmass and sweep south and east over the semi-arid interior plateau before it hits Korea. Almost all of the moisture has already long precipitated out, making the winters here pretty lacking in moisture.
Local coastal regions will be less so, obviously, but in the Korean interior it gets hella dry.  :sad:
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: hangook77 on April 11, 2022, 03:16:29 pm
For those with gas heating, that's certainly true.
Another factor is that cold fronts during the winter originate from the Siberian landmass and sweep south and east over the semi-arid interior plateau before it hits Korea. Almost all of the moisture has already long precipitated out, making the winters here pretty lacking in moisture.
Local coastal regions will be less so, obviously, but in the Korean interior it gets hella dry.  :sad:

Only sometimes.  Sometimes it can be a bit damp slightly and more overcast or hazy skies.  I do love it when the cold comes down from Siberia because it blows all the junk away even if it is cold.  Usually a week or two in January with the odd day or two in Dec and Feb.   
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: Sagi Keun on April 12, 2022, 12:07:03 am

Unhealthy: air quality


its no longer such an issue. The air is a lot cleaner now than it was pre-covid.

Basically Korea realized it was mostly their own fault. They closed down a few coal power stations and.... bingo. problem solved.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: L I on April 12, 2022, 12:34:46 am
Hmm. Is that it? I壇 say it痴 also partially due to people staying home more, thus doing less driving, both in Korea and China. Many areas of China are currently under lockdown - people aren稚 allowed to leave their homes.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: Kyndo on April 12, 2022, 07:34:02 am
The government required that coal plants reduce their operative load for December to February to decrease emissions, hopefully mitigating the traditional horrendous air quality of late winter/early spring.
https://www.spglobal.com/commodityinsights/en/market-insights/latest-news/coal/112521-south-korea-to-idle-up-to-16-coal-fired-power-plants-for-coming-winter

By doing this, they're hoping to increase reliance on LPG, which is significantly cleaner.
Of course, if they really wanted to do something about the air quality, they could recertify those nuclear plants that are currently (pun) just sitting around and shut down those coal plants permanently, but...  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: VanIslander on April 12, 2022, 07:42:04 am
Bad air today.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: L I on April 12, 2022, 07:45:03 am
A multi pronged approach is best. Every little bit helps. Too many diesel vehicles, including in the public sector. Hopefully we can see a reduction in these, in line with the rest of the developed world.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: kevingrabb on April 12, 2022, 09:42:43 am
Yeah, the first time we went to the gas station in my GF's car? I was pretty surprised. Diesel? It's a Chevy Orlando!!

The only cars that came to the diesel pumps in Canada were Volkswagons and Mercedes. ( I worked at a gas station in Barrie so I'm basically a pollster)
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: Chinguetti on April 12, 2022, 11:14:22 am
The mix coffee drinks here make me sick, I've realized. Don't know why, but bleagh. Definitely unhealthy.

Hallabong oranges are great while they're around. They take my smoothies up to another level.

Of course, if they really wanted to do something about the air quality, they could recertify those nuclear plants that are currently (pun) just sitting around and shut down those coal plants permanently, but...  :rolleyes:

All of this. Dump money into green energy options for future development, use nuclear energy to support infrastructures in the meantime.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on April 12, 2022, 11:50:34 am
In uncertain times, if which these qualify, you want diversification of energy sources and also to keep energy costs low. If coal enables that, then you have to for the time being.

The economy is far too unstable right now for idealistic projects that can spike energy costs in the short term.

You're looking at serious global spikes in energy costs while the economy and supply chains are still recovering from COVID, now you have a major war that is going to lead to rising fuel costs and stagflation around the world. You're about to have a significant humanitarian crisis in Europe, coupled with massive defense spending increases, and followed up by a confused energy policy that could lead to serious contraction.

We already have spiking inflation thanks to Moon's dim-witted and short-sighted policy of doubling the minimum wage over his term, not to mention his real estate debacle.

Just because policies make you feel good, doesn't mean they actually work. Moon's feel-good policies have clearly failed.

No coal made sense in 2019. It doesn't make sense right now. Inflation MUST be brought under control and energy costs reduced.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: Kyndo on April 12, 2022, 12:48:15 pm
In uncertain times, if which these qualify, you want diversification of energy sources and also to keep energy costs low. If coal enables that, then you have to for the time being.

The economy is far too unstable right now for idealistic projects that can spike energy costs in the short term.

You're looking at serious global spikes in energy costs while the economy and supply chains are still recovering from COVID, now you have a major war that is going to lead to rising fuel costs and stagflation around the world. You're about to have a significant humanitarian crisis in Europe, coupled with massive defense spending increases, and followed up by a confused energy policy that could lead to serious contraction.

We already have spiking inflation thanks to Moon's dim-witted and short-sighted policy of doubling the minimum wage over his term, not to mention his real estate debacle.

Just because policies make you feel good, doesn't mean they actually work. Moon's feel-good policies have clearly failed.

No coal made sense in 2019. It doesn't make sense right now. Inflation MUST be brought under control and energy costs reduced.
They tanked the nuclear program in Korea not because of economic reasons, but because of political ones: public opinion on nuclear energy became exceedingly negative after the Fukushima incident which, coupled with the discovery of forged safety certifications, pretty much slammed the coffin shut on nuclear for the time being.
As for energy diversification, I'm not sure if this is the end goal in Korea per se. What a country wants (ideally) is energy *security*.  Diversification is usually an intermediary step in moving away from a less than reliable energy source (ie Russian LPG in Europe, for example), but ultimately the end goal is to have a reliable source (or sources) of power, ideally domestically produced.
Diversification is also a way of hedging bets, considering that the cost and availability of any one power source can fluctuate significantly over time.
Korea is relying almost exclusively on LPG and coal, both fuels internationally sourced (ie neither 100% reliable or secure), and both facing ever increasing sociopolitical costs. Moving away from that towards nuclear and renewables ultimately will benefit South Korea in almost everyway.

And while you're right that coal, purely from an economic standpoint, is still one of the cheapest energy sources (especially when one takes into consideration that the local infrastructure for it already exists), it's by an ever-decreasing margin.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: pkjh on April 12, 2022, 01:04:58 pm
We already have spiking inflation thanks to Moon's dim-witted and short-sighted policy of doubling the minimum wage over his term, not to mention his real estate debacle.

Just because policies make you feel good, doesn't mean they actually work. Moon's feel-good policies have clearly failed.

No coal made sense in 2019. It doesn't make sense right now. Inflation MUST be brought under control and energy costs reduced.
Really? You pin-pointing inflation on Moon? It may be true if Korea was the only country facing inflation issues, but it's happening worldwide. Try again...
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: hangook77 on April 12, 2022, 01:36:07 pm
They tanked the nuclear program in Korea not because of economic reasons, but because of political ones: public opinion on nuclear energy became exceedingly negative after the Fukushima incident which, coupled with the discovery of forged safety certifications, pretty much slammed the coffin shut on nuclear for the time being.
As for energy diversification, I'm not sure if this is the end goal in Korea per se. What a country wants (ideally) is energy *security*.  Diversification is usually an intermediary step in moving away from a less than reliable energy source (ie Russian LPG in Europe, for example), but ultimately the end goal is to have a reliable source (or sources) of power, ideally domestically produced.
Diversification is also a way of hedging bets, considering that the cost and availability of any one power source can fluctuate significantly over time.
Korea is relying almost exclusively on LPG and coal, both fuels internationally sourced (ie neither 100% reliable or secure), and both facing ever increasing sociopolitical costs. Moving away from that towards nuclear and renewables ultimately will benefit South Korea in almost everyway.

And while you're right that coal, purely from an economic standpoint, is still one of the cheapest energy sources (especially when one takes into consideration that the local infrastructure for it already exists), it's by an ever-decreasing margin.


Yeah, I remember.  They started loading up on coal and the air quality went to shit.  Add that to what is blowing over from China and it's been awful.  The past couple of years with China's lockdowns have been better here.  I'm all for cleaner energy and air.  Right now with current technology, natural gas (or some variant or it) and nuclear will keep the air clean.  Solar, wind, battery storage has a long way to go before it can power a modern grid.  It almost has to be re invented and improved upon a lot.  Even if more electric cars get on the road, more electricity from dirty resources will be consumed.  Electric cars will need batteries that can last longer and cars will need to drive more kms before a charge.  The best solar panels have 20 per cent efficiency.  If that could triple or more, then it would be a game changer and could take over.  This is more so true as they could be made smaller and generate more power and also if batteries could hold 1000 per cent more charge or more than they do now.  It will be a game changer.  Fund more research and make the patents available to everyone. 

That said we are still years away from that.  AOC and her extremist buddies might want everyone to live with rolling blackouts with very little power in order to save energy and to carbon tax everyone to death into extreme poverty.  But, it's not ideal or practical.  Improve the tech first and then these debates will be a moot point.  Everyone will adopt them including in the developing world where most of the CO2 actually comes from. 
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on April 12, 2022, 01:37:39 pm
Really? You pin-pointing inflation on Moon? It may be true if Korea was the only country facing inflation issues, but it's happening worldwide. Try again...
Inflation is not solely down to Moon, however his minimum wage policy certainly exacerbated it. It was a terrible thing to drive up the wages of so many low-wage workers to such a degree in such a short amount of time. Did it solve anything? No. Did it make things even worse in terms of inflation? Yes.

They tanked the nuclear program in Korea not because of economic reasons, but because of political ones: public opinion on nuclear energy became exceedingly negative after the Fukushima incident which, coupled with the discovery of forged safety certifications, pretty much slammed the coffin shut on nuclear for the time being.
That's certainly true, but they should look at changing that under the present circumstances. Also, a decent public education campaign might have mitigated some of that fear. 

Quote
As for energy diversification, I'm not sure if this is the end goal in Korea per se. What a country wants (ideally) is energy *security*.  Diversification is usually an intermediary step in moving away from a less than reliable energy source (ie Russian LPG in Europe, for example), but ultimately the end goal is to have a reliable source (or sources) of power, ideally domestically produced.
Well, it's more of a general point for every country. In the case of Korea, which MUST import energy, then yes, it has to have energy security and diversification helps that. There simply isn't the capacity in Korea to domestically produce sufficient energy. It MUST import energy.

Quote
Korea is relying almost exclusively on LPG and coal, both fuels internationally sourced (ie neither 100% reliable or secure), and both facing ever increasing sociopolitical costs. Moving away from that towards nuclear and renewables ultimately will benefit South Korea in almost everyway.
The uranium has to be imported. South Korea does not have domestic uranium deposits. Renewables can't hope to supply enough energy.

There isn't always a happy feel-good solution. In the case of South Korea, it needs natural gas, petroleum and coal. ESPECIALLY in these times. On Feb. 24th, 2022, green energy projects became a backburner slow burn project at best. At worst it became a luxury that the country simply cannot afford at the moment. Any energy project must yield considerable amounts of energy and be up and running relatively quickly. Nuclear can do that at the moment, Coal can do that. Renewables and green energy can't.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: L I on April 12, 2022, 01:40:41 pm
Bad air today.

Forest fire today. That痴 a contributing factor.

http://m.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20220412000168
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: Kyndo on April 12, 2022, 01:49:44 pm
That's certainly true, but they should look at changing that under the present circumstances. Also, a decent public education campaign might have mitigated some of that fear.
Yeah. I think the fact that when they looked at the domestic nuke plants and saw the falsification, that pretty much made it impossible to get the public to trust in its safety. It was a series of unfortunate events.  :sad:

The uranium has to be imported. South Korea does not have domestic uranium deposits. ...
True enough. But unlike most other non-renewables, it's ridiculously easy to stockpile fuel for fission. A little goes a loooong way: 1 tonne of U (130,000 USD)* is equivalent to burning 16,000 tonnes of coal (4,848,000 USD)* or 80,000 barrels (7,692,000 USD)* of oil.

*(as of 1st quarter, 2022)
Nuclear can do that at the moment, Coal can do that. Renewables and green energy can't.
Typo?


Anyway, there are seldom simple, easy answers, else we'd all live in a perfect world, right?
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: pkjh on April 12, 2022, 03:24:35 pm
Inflation is not solely down to Moon, however his minimum wage policy certainly exacerbated it. It was a terrible thing to drive up the wages of so many low-wage workers to such a degree in such a short amount of time. Did it solve anything? No. Did it make things even worse in terms of inflation? Yes.
Moon's impact is marginal at best. I don't think it would have been much better under a conservative government. Inflation would have still spiked, with covid, and the war. Minimum wage's link to inflation is pretty weak anyways. Under a conservative government it's likely housing would be no better, probably even worse since they believe the free market will take care of things. And the workers at the lower-end will be making less.

Yoon was musing about having people work 52 hours or 120 hours per week. He doesn't get it too, it's not the work hours that matter, it's the productivity. If I were a mid-to-low wage earner Korean I'd dread the next five years under Yoon.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: L I on April 13, 2022, 11:48:18 am
Interesting article:

The number of registered vehicles in South Korea has surpassed 25 million.

https://m-en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20220412009000320?section=news

The number of environmentally friendly cars is 1.25 million.
覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧

What is meant by environmentally friendly, which is 5% of the total? Not electric vehicles, which are a quarter mil- 1% of the total.

Not long ago I read roughly half of vehicles in Korea are diesel powered. Why so many? Because diesel is slightly cheaper is not worth it to pollute the air; that痴 a very selfish reason.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: hangook77 on April 13, 2022, 11:49:41 am
Interesting article:

The number of registered vehicles in South Korea has surpassed 25 million.

https://m-en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20220412009000320?section=news

The number of environmentally friendly cars is 1.25 million.
覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧

What is meant by environmentally friendly, which is 5% of the total? Not electric vehicles, which are a quarter mil- 1% of the total.

Not long ago I read roughly half of vehicles in Korea are diesel powered. Why so many? Because diesel is slightly cheaper is not worth it to pollute the air; that痴 a very selfish reason.

Improve the tech )longer lasting, faster charges) and bring down the price a lot then people will buy them more. 
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: L I on April 13, 2022, 11:56:53 am
Ok, you池e talking about electric vehicles, but why are so many Koreans choosing diesel vehicles over gasoline vehicles? To save a few bucks? One way would be to buy less huge SUVs. Saddens me to see unnecessarily large SUVs powered by diesel.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: pkjh on April 13, 2022, 12:00:25 pm
Interesting article:

The number of registered vehicles in South Korea has surpassed 25 million.

https://m-en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20220412009000320?section=news

The number of environmentally friendly cars is 1.25 million.
覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧

What is meant by environmentally friendly, which is 5% of the total? Not electric vehicles, which are a quarter mil- 1% of the total.

Not long ago I read roughly half of vehicles in Korea are diesel powered. Why so many? Because diesel is slightly cheaper is not worth it to pollute the air; that痴 a very selfish reason.
Diesel used to be a lot cheaper than regular gas, and it used to be considered cleaner until maybe the last 10 years.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on April 13, 2022, 12:04:15 pm
Minimum wage's link to inflation is pretty weak anyways.
I'm not so sure. Korea has a lot of small businesses (i.e. restaurants, cafes, markets, pubs, markets, etc.) which rely on low-wage workers. Raising minimum wage over 5 years would double labor costs. As prices rise, orders fall. Whereas before they could sell for cheaper and make up for it in sales volume, that isn't an option any more. The raising of minimum wage flat out solved ZERO problems and it exacerbated others. Yes, inflation still would have been a problem, but the raising of minimum wage made it worse.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: Kyndo on April 13, 2022, 12:08:38 pm
Also, up until not too long ago, the Korean government subsidized the purchase of diesel vehicles pretty heavily. The idea was that "clean diesel" emitted slightly less CO2 than the average gas powered vehicle. However, after the mass rush to buy diesel engines, it soon came out that not only were those reductions in CO2 somewhat overstated, but that diesel produced substantially more fine particulates, which strongly impacted urban air quality. Combined with a urea shortage (a chemical needed to catalyze a nitrate to nitrogen reaction in a diesel vehicle), diesel was no longer the favourite child, and the gov retracted all the subsidies (which infuriated a lot of people).

I'm not so sure. Korea has a lot of small businesses (i.e. restaurants, cafes, markets, pubs, markets, etc.) which rely on low-wage workers. Raising minimum wage over 5 years would double labor costs. As prices rise, orders fall. Whereas before they could sell for cheaper and make up for it in sales volume, that isn't an option any more. The raising of minimum wage flat out solved ZERO problems and it exacerbated others. Yes, inflation still would have been a problem, but the raising of minimum wage made it worse.

It's not that cut-and-dry, unfortunately.
  There have been oodles of studies done on the link between increases in minimum wage and inflation. There is a correlation, yes, but evidence that minimum wage increases cause inflation is tenuous at best (although there is pretty strong evidence that inflation does casue minimum wage increases). It really depends on how competitive various markets are and on price elasticity etc.
Here's a research paper that examines the link between the two: https://www.jstor.org/stable/41445397

Here is a decent article by an economic paper that provides a pretty well balanced look at evidence supporting and not supporting the link: https://www.forbes.com/advisor/personal-finance/minimum-wage-debate/
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: gogators! on April 13, 2022, 06:26:00 pm
I'm not so sure. Korea has a lot of small businesses (i.e. restaurants, cafes, markets, pubs, markets, etc.) which rely on low-wage workers. Raising minimum wage over 5 years would double labor costs. As prices rise, orders fall. Whereas before they could sell for cheaper and make up for it in sales volume, that isn't an option any more. The raising of minimum wage flat out solved ZERO problems and it exacerbated others. Yes, inflation still would have been a problem, but the raising of minimum wage made it worse.
Have orders fallen? If so, wouldn't that be due more to the pandemic than to anything else? In Seoul last fall, it was hard to find a seat in a cafe. They seemed to be doing alright.

I would like to see some proof of your continued assertions that raising the minimum wage is economically destructive. Its connection to inflation is dubious at best. Gas prices have nothing to do with minimum wage. Corporate profits in the US are at an all-time high and still big companies raise prices, more than making up for the higher wages they are paying workers.

Businesses can't operate without employees. They should correspondingly pay them a decent wage in safe working conditions. They are not slaves.



Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: Sagi Keun on April 13, 2022, 09:00:26 pm
The idea was that "clean diesel" emitted slightly less CO2 than the average gas powered vehicle. However, after the mass rush to buy diesel engines, it soon came out that not only were those reductions in CO2 somewhat overstated, but that diesel produced substantially more fine particulates, which strongly impacted urban air quality.

Wonder what the back story is there. Car companies sponsoring scientists to make certain findings.

Science is often corrupted by human agendas.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: pkjh on April 13, 2022, 09:48:39 pm
Wonder what the back story is there. Car companies sponsoring scientists to make certain findings.

Science is often corrupted by human agendas.
It was thought that diesel was cleaner way back in like the 80s. Another factor was regular gas still had lead, and diesel was for sure cleaner than leaded gas. That's why companies like Volkswagen went heavy into diesel cars back then, virtually all of their cars were diesel then. But as time goes on, science gets more tech, and learn more things.

Also, diesel back then was like half the price of regular gas.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: gogators! on April 14, 2022, 04:37:28 am
It was thought that diesel was cleaner way back in like the 80s. Another factor was regular gas still had lead, and diesel was for sure cleaner than leaded gas. That's why companies like Volkswagen went heavy into diesel cars back then, virtually all of their cars were diesel then. But as time goes on, science gets more tech, and learn more things.

Also, diesel back then was like half the price of regular gas.
A little more specific background;
"The Volkswagen emissions scandal, sometimes known as Dieselgate[23][24] or Emissionsgate,[25][24] began in September 2015, when the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) issued a notice of violation of the Clean Air Act to German automaker Volkswagen Group.[26] The agency had found that Volkswagen had intentionally programmed turbocharged direct injection (TDI) diesel engines to activate their emissions controls only during laboratory emissions testing, which caused the vehicles' NO x  output to meet US standards during regulatory testing, while they emitted up to 40 times more NO x  in real-world driving.[27] Volkswagen deployed this software in about 11 million cars worldwide, including 500,000 in the United States, in model years 2009 through 2015."

I remember maybe 15 years or so back Korean car makers were selling LPG-powered minivans, but I guess that never truly caught on. The taxis run on LPG, which makes their trunks quite small.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: Lazio on April 14, 2022, 07:29:21 am
I remember maybe 15 years or so back Korean car makers were selling LPG-powered minivans, but I guess that never truly caught on. The taxis run on LPG, which makes their trunks quite small.

Let's not forget that until 2019, the use of lpg vehicles was restricted to certain groups such as taxis, rental cars and the disabled.
Now, car makers are free to equip any vehicle with lpg and sell it to anyone.
About 2 million vehicles currently run on lpg and that number is expected to increase to 2.8 by 2030.
Also, converted cars have an extra lpg tank in the trunk. Very annoying that you can't load much cargo into taxis. But there are lpg cars that are manufactured that way so there is no visible fuel tank in the trunk.
Title: Re: Healthier AND unhealthier aspects of life in South Korea
Post by: pkjh on April 14, 2022, 07:32:41 am
I remember maybe 15 years or so back Korean car makers were selling LPG-powered minivans, but I guess that never truly caught on. The taxis run on LPG, which makes their trunks quite small.
Problem with LPG is that it needs to be compressed, which makes it harder to do everything cheaper than gasoline. Another advantage with gasoline is the power it produces, it maybe one of the least efficient combustible gases out there (something like 90% of it is wasted), but the power that it produces is unmatched.