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Symposium => "Open" Discussions => Topic started by: Chester Jim on November 15, 2021, 11:18:16 am

Title: Is this fake news?
Post by: Chester Jim on November 15, 2021, 11:18:16 am
I have found a very interesting article and I am sure that people on here would say that it is fake.

This article's claim is that polio was probably a man made epidemic.
I can't for the life of me find fault with the argument in the piece.
Basically he is saying that man made toxins created a pathway in the stomach for polio viruses and other pathogens like echovirus to infect the lower spine.  It happened in children mainly because their stomach is situated right in front of the lower spine where people were mainly paralyzed. If it were from the blood stream like they say, then it would have infected the entire spinal column.

This would put a serious dent in the perfect history of vaccines.

So,
For all of you who claim to have some special ability to understand information and to understand truthful sources.
Is this guy wrong?
How is he wrong?

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1005127713848463361.html
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: tylerthegloob on November 15, 2021, 11:54:45 am
it would put a dent in the (not perfect) history of pesticides, maybe
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: waygo0k on November 15, 2021, 12:04:02 pm
Dude...polio has been around for thousands of years.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Chester Jim on November 15, 2021, 01:01:09 pm
The polio virus.
There are several pathogens that cause poliomyelitis, which is the inflammation of the gray/polio area of the spine.  Polio is not the only one, there is also the echovirus, coxsackievirus etc.. .  If you read the article then you would see that it was man made toxins like arsenic and mercury which were used by ubiquitously in medicine for teething and to clean the bowels.   It created "holes or pathways in the stomach" right behind the lower spine where the majority of paralyzing inflammation occurred.

Without the man made chemicals there was no problem with "polio", because the spine was not exposed.  If the polio virus were causing it in the blood stream like many believe,  then it would have been located all across the spine, not just one area. 

The Salk vaccine was not a success at all because it created antibodies in the blood and not the gut. Then when they made an oral vaccine it was effective against polio, but not against the other pathogens that caused the inflammation which were caused by arsenic and mercury.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: waygo0k on November 15, 2021, 01:03:18 pm
Mercury and Arsenic are elements...they exist in nature. It's like calling oxygen "man made".
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Chester Jim on November 15, 2021, 01:08:18 pm
Mercury and Arsenic are elements...they exist in nature. It's like calling oxygen "man made".
Yikes, can't pull the wool over your eyes.
Did it occur to you that the purpose of man made was to refer to the cause of the problem not being cause by a virus and rather some product that was consumed, like ddt on plants and in wall paper or mercury in teething fomula?   Are you saying these aren't toxic because they are in nature?
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on November 15, 2021, 01:15:13 pm
I don't have enough information or expertise to say if what the guy posted was right or not.

Is it plausible there were a variety of factors that caused poliomyelitis and that a combination of factors led the demise of the condition? Sure. These sort of mistakes and things have happened before. Do I have any reason to suspect that happened here? Not really. And for a remarkable claim you're going to need remarkable proof. I'm not going to wholly dismiss it because it is certainly plausible given the state of medicine and scientific rigor even into the 50s-60s, so it does get that.

But the thing is, that really doesn't speak to your argument. Lets assume everything you've said about the polio vaccine is true and that it really didn't do much of anything. Does this apply to other vaccines? Smallpox? Measles? Mumps? Chicken Pox?

And one vaccine being not what it was initially suspected of being does not make ALL vaccines like that, nor does it argue to the efficacy of the COVID vaccine nor any others.

What you've done is introduce an interesting observation and set of questions to an issue that is connected only barely to the one you are now making, and it is certainly not evidence of anything greater.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: waygo0k on November 15, 2021, 01:16:43 pm
Yikes, can't pull the wool over your eyes.
Did it occur to you that the purpose of man made was to refer to the cause of the problem not being cause by a virus and rather some product that was consumed, like ddt on plants and in wall paper or mercury in teething fomula?   Are you saying these aren't toxic because they are in nature?

Oxygen toxicity is a thing. Everything can be toxic in the right amounts.

If you (or your source) can't even get the basics of science right in terms of classifying substances correctly, what does that say for the rest of the hypothesis?

Oh, and polio, which has been around for thousands of years, became an epidemic during the industrial era due to an improvement in hygiene and sanitation standards. Ironic...I know (https://www.britannica.com/science/polio/Polio-through-history).

Pre-industrial revolution, people were exposed to the virus as children, thus enabling populations to have herd immunity. As city sanitation improved and hygiene improved, fewer and fewer of the population were exposed to the virus in their early years...reducing immunity. Or so the "theory" goes.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on November 15, 2021, 01:24:55 pm
I mean, I would say one could certainly wonder if there weren't also some environmental factors that were causing conditions similar to polio and that these were all getting lumped together with the polio virus and that this may have significantly distorted the numbers.

Trying to figure out diseases, afflictions and maladies is often interesting and things can certainly happen where you think it's one thing only to find out it's something else entirely.

What this has to do with the efficacy of ALL vaccines is beyond me.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Chester Jim on November 15, 2021, 01:26:37 pm
Oxygen toxicity is a thing. Everything can be toxic in the right amounts.

If you (or your source) can't even get the basics of science right in terms of classifying substances correctly, what does that say for the rest of the hypothesis?

Oh, and polio, which has been around for thousands of years, became an epidemic during the industrial era due to an improvement in hygiene and sanitation standards. Ironic...I know (https://www.britannica.com/science/polio/Polio-through-history).

Pre-industrial revolution, people were exposed to the virus as children, thus enabling populations to have herd immunity. As city sanitation improved and hygiene improved, fewer and fewer of the population were exposed to the virus in their early years...reducing immunity. Or so the "theory" goes.
Oxygen toxicity is a thing. Everything can be toxic in the right amounts.

If you (or your source) can't even get the basics of science right in terms of classifying substances correctly, what does that say for the rest of the hypothesis?

Oh, and polio, which has been around for thousands of years, became an epidemic during the industrial era due to an improvement in hygiene and sanitation standards. Ironic...I know (https://www.britannica.com/science/polio/Polio-through-history).

Pre-industrial revolution, people were exposed to the virus as children, thus enabling populations to have herd immunity. As city sanitation improved and hygiene improved, fewer and fewer of the population were exposed to the virus in their early years...reducing immunity. Or so the "theory" goes.

Wtf are you even talking about?
Man made problem means that if they didn't eat the f^%^ing mercury then there wouldn't have been a problem.  Got it  Not that the mercury is man made .  Holy shit!!
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on November 15, 2021, 01:37:43 pm
Who knows? Maybe the polio virus exacerbated issues with chemical contaminants or perhaps those same contaminants exacerbated issues with the polio virus and that separately both could cause problems but put them together and you get huge outbreaks.

Again, this doesn't really disprove the effectiveness of vaccines. It's just a potentially fascinating (or nothing at all) potential medical mystery and could well end up back at the conventional explanation, which wouldn't be disappointing (from an excitement standpoint) if things initially looked like one thing, then another, and finally we end up back at the beginning after all. Would certainly be a fun journey of research and investigation.

The efficacy of vaccines in general does not change if the polio vaccine is

A) Everything it is claimed to be
B) A complete fraud
C) Something in the middle where it was both environmental and infectious
D) There was a genetic explanation

And any of those outcomes is fascinating.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Chester Jim on November 15, 2021, 01:46:03 pm
I don't have enough information or expertise to say if what the guy posted was right or not.

Is it plausible there were a variety of factors that caused poliomyelitis and that a combination of factors led the demise of the condition? Sure. These sort of mistakes and things have happened before. Do I have any reason to suspect that happened here? Not really. And for a remarkable claim you're going to need remarkable proof. I'm not going to wholly dismiss it because it is certainly plausible given the state of medicine and scientific rigor even into the 50s-60s, so it does get that.

But the thing is, that really doesn't speak to your argument. Lets assume everything you've said about the polio vaccine is true and that it really didn't do much of anything. Does this apply to other vaccines? Smallpox? Measles? Mumps? Chicken Pox?

And one vaccine being not what it was initially suspected of being does not make ALL vaccines like that, nor does it argue to the efficacy of the COVID vaccine nor any others.

What you've done is introduce an interesting observation and set of questions to an issue that is connected only barely to the one you are now making, and it is certainly not evidence of anything greater.

Another f ing strawman.   What are you talking about?  Seriously sounds like BS. 
Did I or the article say the vaccine didn't do anything?   I and the article said that the oral one was successful, but since it wasn't only the "polio virus" that caused polio myletiitis, it didn't go away. The other vaccine which was administered in the blood wasn't a success, because the problem was coming from the stomach, and is a notorious failure.    At the very least the history of vaccines needs revising, and it should be told honestly.
I didn't say that all vaccines don't work or anything like that.  You are pulling things out of your prejudice ass.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: waygo0k on November 15, 2021, 02:06:25 pm
Wtf are you even talking about?
Man made problem means that if they didn't eat the f^%^ing mercury then there wouldn't have been a problem.  Got it  Not that the mercury is man made .  Holy shit!!

Humans have been ingesting mercurous compounds for thousands of years. The romans had mercury mines. Arsenic was even more ubiquitous, with its use as the poison of poisons.

Yet, with these 2 elements in their compound salts being in circulation in human populations for millennia…polio epidemics were rare to non-existent.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Chester Jim on November 15, 2021, 02:19:30 pm
Humans have been ingesting mercurous compounds for thousands of years. The romans had mercury mines. Arsenic was even more ubiquitous, with its use as the poison of poisons.

Yet, with these 2 elements in their compound salts being in circulation in human populations for millennia…polio epidemics were rare to non-existent.

Rare to nonexistent yet important enough for Egyptians to portray them in hieroglyphs?

If you read the article then you would have seen that when humans are babies their stomachs are situated in front of where the tail of spine is.  As they grow older adults don't have the problem as much because the spine end, or location of the infection is much higher than the stomach.   We gave it to babies for teething and put it on food.  I doubt the Romans or Egyptians did and if they did you can't prove that they didn't have an outbreak, but it looks like Egyptians cared enough to depict it.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: waygo0k on November 15, 2021, 02:26:56 pm
Rare to nonexistent yet important enough for Egyptians to portray them in hieroglyphs?

Did the Egyptians depict polio as an epidemic in their hieroglyphs?

If you read the article then you would have seen that when humans are babies their stomachs are situated in front of where the tail of spine is.  As they grow older adults don't have the problem as much because the spine end, or location of the infection is much higher than the stomach.   We gave it to babies for teething and put it on food.  I doubt the Romans or Egyptians did and if they did you can't prove that they didn't have an outbreak, but it looks like Egyptians cared enough to depict it.

Again, compounds of these elements have been in circulation in human populations for millennia, yet there is no evidence of polio cases in those periods coming anything close to what we had post industrial revolution. The Egyptians, being meticulous record keepers as they were, would probably have not missed off polio epidemic(s) from their hieroglyphs.

I don't know how many different ways I can poke the same holes in your hypothesis.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Chester Jim on November 15, 2021, 02:37:34 pm
Did the Egyptians depict polio as an epidemic in their hieroglyphs?

Again, compounds of these elements have been in circulation in human populations for millennia, yet there is no evidence of polio cases in those periods coming anything close to what we had post industrial revolution. The Egyptians, being meticulous record keepers as they were, would probably have not missed off polio epidemic(s) from their hieroglyphs.

I don't know how many different ways I can poke the same holes in your hypothesis.

Christ almighty yes.  look it up.
 
Really? No evidence coming anywhere close to the industrial revolution in Egypt and Rome?  I wonder why there might not be as much evidence.


Hey you obviously need to take a little time and read the article more carefully.  It explains why it might be the case. It was given to children and their spinal cord location was near their stomach whereas in adults the location moves away from the stomach for the second time, should be the third if you read the article. .  Do you have evidence that arsenic and mercury were being given to kids like Tylenol during Roman times, teething babies?


Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: MayorHaggar on November 15, 2021, 03:51:47 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/6rGadRU.jpg)
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on November 15, 2021, 04:16:32 pm
  At the very least the history of vaccines needs revising, and it should be told honestly.
I didn't say that all vaccines don't work or anything like that.  You are pulling things out of your prejudice ass.
Very well, you did not actually state that.

However, this claim does not stand up. While I think "strawman" gets overused and often times is used in technicality rather than actual distinction with difference, I have to say by your standard, what you posted here is one and is indicative of prejudice.
This would put a serious dent in the perfect history of vaccines.
The claim of vaccine perfection has not been made by anyone serious, nor would this damage it if true. And there is a long way to go before this is proven true. You need to supply a lot more information beyond coincidental history, which while raising a possible line of inquiry (if indeed polio outbreaks are closely correlated with certain pesticide programs or other such chemical releases that certainly could be something to investigate) does not therefore result in the person's claim being true, only that we might begin to do more research and investigation.

I gave your source about as fair a hearing as I could. I didn't dismiss your source out of hand, despite the obvious lack of credentials and relevant education, nor the lack of scientific evidence nor a host of other things. All of that could be true and he could still be right. But this is something whose scope begins and ends with polio, and has zero applicability outside of it, save perhaps for other earlier diseases for which early vaccines were developed that might have had similar environmental causes and even then many of those diseases do have verifiable vaccines. And it certainly doesn't apply to modern vaccines in which environmental factors are much more closely scrutinized.

I wasn't perfect but I think you got a fairer look from me than just about anyone else on this forum would give. Hangook77 might agree with you more on this, but that isn't the same as being fair. Because if you posted something he disagreed with, he would just trash whatever you posted.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: waygo0k on November 15, 2021, 05:47:28 pm
Christ almighty yes.  look it up.
 
Really? No evidence coming anywhere close to the industrial revolution in Egypt and Rome?  I wonder why there might not be as much evidence.


Hey you obviously need to take a little time and read the article more carefully.  It explains why it might be the case. It was given to children and their spinal cord location was near their stomach whereas in adults the location moves away from the stomach for the second time, should be the third if you read the article.  Do you have evidence that arsenic and mercury were being given to kids like Tylenol during Roman times, teething babies?




Look what up?  :laugh: :laugh: I’m the one that told you polio has been around for thousands of years.

Ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs depicting one person here and there with polio symptoms =/= epidemic of polio in ancient Egypt…unless we now have to explain to you what an epidemic is in addition to having to explain what man-made is.

There isn’t evidence of pre industrial revolution polio epidemics on par with post industrial revolution cases because…there weren’t any on any meaningful scale pre IR.

If you can find any, I’d be more than happy to recant my statement. And a drawing of one person with polio doesn’t count as an epidemic.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Chester Jim on November 15, 2021, 06:04:59 pm
Christ almighty yes.  look it up.
 
Really? No evidence coming anywhere close to the industrial revolution in Egypt and Rome?  I wonder why there might not be as much evidence.


Hey you obviously need to take a little time and read the article more carefully.  It explains why it might be the case. It was given to children and their spinal cord location was near their stomach whereas in adults the location moves away from the stomach for the second time, should be the third if you read the article. .  Do you have evidence that arsenic and mercury were being given to kids like Tylenol during Roman times, teething babies?



Why the F did you ask if they had depicted polio in their hieroglyphs then?  Seriously this is too dumb.  I’m done with you.  Try to read the article a little more carefully.   And you asking why they didn’t have the evidence from Roman times compared to the industrial revolution is completely stupid and you don’t answer articles points about teething or anything. Dumb beyond belief.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Chester Jim on November 15, 2021, 06:09:54 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/6rGadRU.jpg)

How so?  Did you read it ? Enlighten me.  That’s what I thought.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: hangook77 on November 16, 2021, 12:24:28 pm
Remember when the racist Ilbo (Chosun Ilbo) ran a news story proclaiming to "be aware of the ugly English teacher"?  Now that was fake news before the term was coined.  That MBC news story about 10 years ago about all the foreigners in Itaewon?  Another racist fluff piece.  Memories of just how fake news can be. 
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on November 16, 2021, 12:41:33 pm
Remember when the racist Ilbo (Chosun Ilbo) ran a news story proclaiming to "be aware of the ugly English teacher"?  Now that was fake news before the term was coined.  That MBC news story about 10 years ago about all the foreigners in Itaewon?  Another racist fluff piece.  Memories of just how fake news can be. 
Yes. And?
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: hangook77 on November 16, 2021, 01:25:35 pm
Yes. And?

We are talking about fake news.  Remember, before CNN there was Korean media.  (Well, some Korean media.)
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Kyndo on November 16, 2021, 03:12:00 pm
Here's an interesting read about new laws being passed to address the issue of fake news in Korea.
Not surprisingly, a lot of people are worried about how this will affect South Korea's Freedom of Press Index ranking (they're currently in first place here in Asia).

https://thediplomat.com/2021/08/the-trouble-with-south-koreas-fake-news-law/
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: gogators! on November 16, 2021, 07:49:32 pm
Here's an interesting read about new laws being passed to address the issue of fake news in Korea.
Not surprisingly, a lot of people are worried about how this will affect South Korea's Freedom of Press Index ranking (they're currently in first place here in Asia).

https://thediplomat.com/2021/08/the-trouble-with-south-koreas-fake-news-law/
Good article--thanks.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: hangook77 on November 17, 2021, 08:57:56 am
Here's an interesting read about new laws being passed to address the issue of fake news in Korea.
Not surprisingly, a lot of people are worried about how this will affect South Korea's Freedom of Press Index ranking (they're currently in first place here in Asia).

https://thediplomat.com/2021/08/the-trouble-with-south-koreas-fake-news-law/

Korea already has many restrictions on free speech.  This from many younger Koreans who have told me it is not really a democracy.  (This constitution was put in place by the military dictatorship after all.)  But, as for this, never let a good crisis go to waste.  Milk it for all that it's worth.  Clamping down on more personal freedoms is of no consequence to the elites. 
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: D.L.Orean on November 17, 2021, 09:05:55 am
Korea already has many restrictions on free speech.  This from many younger Koreans who have told me it is not really a democracy.  (This constitution was put in place by the military dictatorship after all.)  But, as for this, never let a good crisis go to waste.  Milk it for all that it's worth.  Clamping down on more personal freedoms is of no consequence to the elites.

The sun is setting on Korea. When the borders open up it's time to move to China where we won't need to worry about authorities clamping down on personal freedoms.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: hangook77 on November 17, 2021, 09:21:09 am
The sun is setting on Korea. When the borders open up it's time to move to China where we won't need to worry about authorities clamping down on personal freedoms.

Well, at least there, you are getting paid good money.  Also, China never billed itself as a democracy.  (You would obviously go there for the cash short term, then maybe go elsewhere later on.)  But, if Korea bills itself as a democracy along with other nations in the west and then gradually chips away at it, then there is no where left to run to. 
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: gogators! on November 17, 2021, 09:56:31 am
The sun is setting on Korea. When the borders open up it's time to move to China where we won't need to worry about authorities clamping down on personal freedoms.
I foresee a mass exodus.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: tylerthegloob on November 17, 2021, 10:39:01 am
But, if Korea bills itself as a democracy along with other nations in the west and then gradually chips away at it, then there is no where left to run to. 

there goes hangook banging on about something he knows almost nothing about. south korea is at least as strong a democracy as the US (and many of the other countries you're probably thinking of). i spent a bit of time studying korean politics in university. but you don't even need a fancy degree, you could just google it. just about any democracy index puts korea at or above the US (i'm talking about things like the economist's democracy index or the freedom house rankings)
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: L I on November 17, 2021, 11:03:19 am
2015: USA- 8.05; ROK- 7.92
2020: USA- 7.92; ROK- 8.01

Meaning the USA became what the ROK was five years ago and the ROK became almost as good as what the USA was five years ago. I guess the score makers believe the Trump presidency did lasting damage to America’s democracy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Kyndo on November 17, 2021, 11:12:07 am
Korea already has many restrictions on free speech.  This from many younger Koreans who have told me it is not really a democracy.  (This constitution was put in place by the military dictatorship after all.)  But, as for this, never let a good crisis go to waste.  Milk it for all that it's worth.  Clamping down on more personal freedoms is of no consequence to the elites. 

This has been discussed before, but South Korea (#42) ranks higher than the USA (#44) on the World Press Freedom Index.
https://rsf.org/en/ranking_table

If you go to the linked site and click on the country you're interested in, you can see the current issues that it faces with respect to press freedom as well with some disturbing stats like the average number of reporters killed in a year etc.


Also, While China is a ruthlessly authoritarian state, it does, in fact, bill itself as a Democracy. Of course, China has a very different idea of what it means to be a democracy than the West. Here's an interesting read on the topic:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/democracy-post/wp/2017/04/11/why-does-china-pretend-to-be-a-democracy/
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: L I on November 17, 2021, 11:20:52 am
Five years ago, USA #41, ROK #70.

The ROK is gettin’ better and USA is getting’ worse.

https://rsf.org/en/ranking/2016

How is America’s press becoming less free though? Cancel culture? What is it specifically?
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Kyndo on November 17, 2021, 11:26:29 am
I'm not sure. Interesting question.
A big part of the ranking involves how centralized the media is. If there've been any big mergers in American media, that would negatively affect their ranking
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: tylerthegloob on November 17, 2021, 11:45:28 am
re: democracy index: the ROK's dipped during park geun-hye's presidency. in 2012, ROK was also higher. but anyway my point was korea is roughly as democratic if not more than hangook's "western nations"
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: L I on November 17, 2021, 11:48:46 am
The Democracy Index ranking was made by Brits. The Freedom of Press ranking was made by French.   Sometimes people of those nationalities unfairly malign the USA a bit more than the global average. I was reading on the Freedom of Press website why America’s press isn’t free and a reason given was capitol protesters had called them fake news and in some cases attacked them. But that incident was just one day in the year, and journalists freely reported on it. That’s some weak reasoning and rationale. America’s press is free. People can publish what they want. There are no hate speech laws. Not the case with some other countries. 
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: L I on November 17, 2021, 11:54:03 am
Another reason the Freedom of Press Index gave for ranking the United States low is “unchecked conspiracy theories that continue to flourish online”. Their definition of what makes a press free or unfree is debatable and subjective. I thought free press was the opposite- the ability to say what you want without government interference silencing you.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on November 17, 2021, 12:22:35 pm
Europeans have a trash view of rights and freedoms in general. They view rights as something granted by states, not something you inherently possess. Your right to press is not yours. It is something that is licensed.

Who cares what they think? They're the morons with a hereditary monarchy and like 5 different Republics.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: CO2 on November 17, 2021, 12:40:00 pm
Europeans have a trash view of rights and freedoms in general. They view rights as something granted by states, not something you inherently possess. Your right to press is not yours. It is something that is licensed.


(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/51988128.jpg)
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: tylerthegloob on November 17, 2021, 12:51:25 pm
Europeans have a trash view of rights and freedoms in general.

yeah they only invented those ideas...
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on November 17, 2021, 12:52:49 pm
Brief history reminder for everyone. Last time some dipshit Europeans tried to tell us what to do.
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/IndelibleUnrulyGlowworm-max-1mb.gif)
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on November 17, 2021, 12:53:42 pm
yeah they only invented those ideas...
How can they invent something that is inherent to all people? The trash Euro view is that they created these rights. The correct American view is that these rights are inherent and finally their suppression was lifted.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: tylerthegloob on November 17, 2021, 01:59:30 pm
How can they invent something that is inherent to all people? The trash Euro view is that they created these rights. The correct American view is that these rights are inherent and finally their suppression was lifted.

what on god's green earth are you blathering about? read a book demartino. Wow! You might start with aristotle, cicero, hobbes or locke or maybe Dr. Seuss i don't know. they (sans the Seuss) came up with and developed the idea that we have these inherent rights

nevermind the fact that the "americans" you're talking about were europeans who had recently taken a cruise
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on November 17, 2021, 02:37:14 pm
what on god's green earth are you blathering about? read a book demartino holy shit you might start with aristotle, cicero, hobbes or locke or maybe Dr. Seuss i don't know. they (sans the Seuss) came up with and developed the idea that we have these inherent rights

nevermind the fact that the "americans" you're talking about were europeans who had recently taken a cruise
The Washington driving a Dodge might be a bit on insight into how serious I am about this.

But yes, there is a tendency in European systems to view rights as being granted by the state rather than something inherently possessed.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: tylerthegloob on November 17, 2021, 02:43:59 pm
The Washington driving a Dodge might be a bit on insight into how serious I am about this.

But yes, there is a tendency in European systems to view rights as being granted by the state rather than something inherently possessed.
where?
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Adel on November 17, 2021, 03:03:20 pm


The Washington driving a Dodge might be a bit on insight into how serious I am about this.

But yes, there is a tendency in European systems to view rights as being granted by the state rather than something inherently possessed.

(https://www.icegif.com/wp-content/uploads/icegif-599.gif)

Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on November 17, 2021, 03:50:08 pm
You see this reflected in values.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/04/19/5-ways-americans-and-europeans-are-different/
https://today.ku.edu/2020/01/11/study-analyzes-american-other-free-speech-traditions-suggests-inevitable-clashes

Here we see someone who ascribes to the European view of things.

Quote
“When we talk about First Amendment issues, free speech and protecting speech, I think this is a great way to frame it, by looking at how the world’s first great democracy viewed free speech,” Rosenthal said. “We don’t have that type of character and fitness exam. I argue, because of that, anyone can say what they please. We’re not insulating people or licensing them to speak. In some ways that’s good. In other ways it’s not.”

Quote
“Our free speech permissiveness was born of colonial suppression. Because of that, we’ve enshrined it in our Constitution and in our jurisprudence,” Rosenthal said. “The Supreme Court has regularly extended protections of free speech to a point, that I argue, goes too far.”
Perhaps some colonialism and oppression of Euros and their allies would make them change their mind.

He does make a really good point here-
Quote
Rosenthal concluded that differing traditions in the United States and other parts of the world have led to a point where powerful American corporations are attempting to export their cultural and legal philosophies around the world, which should call for a re-examination of those traditions and prepare society for disagreements between the traditions.

You see this in European laws like the hijab ban. You also see the nature of Euro style thinking- That whoever is in charge is clever and that they are guiding people to some goal through these laws, that their duty is to move and shape the public, not to ensure freedom for the public, that whatever law they make is fine as long as it is done in the name of some goal such as "equality" or "to elevate discourse". It is an ultimately arbitrary philosophy, IMO. That being said, it's their country and they have every right to live according to this philosophy of theirs. One might also say that it is more Old World really than European as many Asian countries have similar views.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2017-03-19/free-speech-in-europe-isn-t-what-americans-think

More Euro views on Free Speech
Quote
Paragraph 2 of Article 10 enounces the legitimate aims that can justify the restriction of freedom of expression: “The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the
reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.”
https://digitalcommons.wcl.american.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1401&context=hrbrief
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Chester Jim on November 17, 2021, 04:06:49 pm
https://twitter.com/johnbwellsctm/status/1460650574920171530?s=21


Another collage of news stories about people collapsing.  This stuff is not normal.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Chester Jim on November 17, 2021, 04:11:38 pm
Project Veritas does it again.   CBS teaching their employees not to be objective.   It’s a leftist cartel ladies and gentlemen.  https://youtu.be/x4yJYMIpoy8
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Chester Jim on November 17, 2021, 04:14:26 pm
Omg
Pfizer lied about the number of individuals who died during thir COVID vaccine trials.
The actual number of deaths during the clinical trials was 21 not 16 as was originally reported.
This was four more deaths than the clinical trials control group.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/11/huge-breaking-news-pfizer-hid-public-number-deaths-covid-clinical-trials-actual-number-21-6-reported-4-unvaccinated-group/?utm_source=Gab&utm_campaign=websitesharingbuttons
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Bakeacake on November 17, 2021, 04:50:41 pm
Omg
Pfizer lied about the number of individuals who died during thir COVID vaccine trials.
The actual number of deaths during the clinical trials was 21 not 16 as was originally reported.
This was four more deaths than the clinical trials control group.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/11/huge-breaking-news-pfizer-hid-public-number-deaths-covid-clinical-trials-actual-number-21-6-reported-4-unvaccinated-group/?utm_source=Gab&utm_campaign=websitesharingbuttons

your posts are always fun to see.
what an amazing news source.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: gogators! on November 17, 2021, 06:57:10 pm
You left out this part, Martini.

"He points out that one of the Supreme Court’s most ardent defenders of free speech protections, Hugo Black, was a former member of the Ku Klux Klan. Naturally, a person with such views would fight for robust protections of all manner of speech, Rosenthal said. Such extensions of protected speech can result in an intolerant minority pushing out a tolerant majority in society, he wrote.

The differing traditions have led to today, where those largely controlling who can speak and how they can do so are social media companies and giant technology corporations. The most prominent of those are not only American, they are concentrated in Silicon Valley, one small section not representative of the rest of the nation and not always knowledgeable of other cultural and legal traditions, Rosenthal said. Because of that, the current era would be a good time to re-examine American free speech traditions."
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Kyndo on November 17, 2021, 08:49:30 pm
Omg
Pfizer lied about the number of individuals who died during thir COVID vaccine trials.
The actual number of deaths during the clinical trials was 21 not 16 as was originally reported.
This was four more deaths than the clinical trials control group.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/11/huge-breaking-news-pfizer-hid-public-number-deaths-covid-clinical-trials-actual-number-21-6-reported-4-unvaccinated-group/?utm_source=Gab&utm_campaign=websitesharingbuttons

The 16 number refers to death from the vaxxed group during the blinded part of the study. 5 additional deaths (for a total of 21) in that group occurred after the trials were unblinded. This is actually considered to be post-trial data.
The two numbers were referencing different parts of the study.

"During the blinded, controlled period, 15 BNT162b2 and 14 placebo recipients died; during the open-label period, 3 BNT162b2 and 2 original placebo recipients who received BNT162b2 after unblinding died. None of these deaths were considered related to BNT162b2 by investigators. Causes of death were balanced between BNT162b2 and placebo groups (Table S4)."

This is from the original vaccine study results report, in the "Safety" heading.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.21261159v1.full-text
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: JNM on November 17, 2021, 09:08:33 pm
The Washington driving a Dodge might be a bit on insight into how serious I am about this.


A Dodge that was made in British North America Canada!
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Mr C on November 17, 2021, 10:17:00 pm
Yo, Jester Chim!  Any comment on the Hartle case?

I'm sure you remember ... the guy who PROVED the Dems had stolen votes in Arizona?  Remember? 

His wife had, sadly, passed away in 2017 but despite not receiving a mail-in ballot she had somehow voted and he couldn't understand it.  Election fraud, period.

He just pled guilty to felony vote fraud because he had actually sent in her vote.  Huh.

That, Jester, is what we call "Fake News"!

Oh, and he got caught, eh?  Suggests the system ultimately works, doesn't it?
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Chester Jim on November 18, 2021, 02:47:44 am
People are getting heart attacks from "Broken Heart Syndrome"


The media is looking for absolutely anything (other than the obvious) to blame for the sudden surge in heart attacks, myocarditis, pericarditis and assorted heart diseases throughout the West.
http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=62669


I guess they are just human sacrifices.
Galima shuktiday.
Shame Shame. !!! Pathetic.


Looks like 30,000 excess overdoses due to lockdown in 2020. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10209983/US-recorded-100-000-drug-overdose-deaths-year-Covid-lockdowns.html
Good job guys! 
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: gogators! on November 18, 2021, 08:58:00 am
Fentanyl is the real culprit here.

Lockdowns saved lives. The radical right and their chieftain trump on the other hand...
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on November 18, 2021, 10:49:04 am
Chester Jim, any tracking of this in Korea? Shouldn't there be waves of heart attacks in Korea and K-League athletes collapsing if your claim is true?
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on November 18, 2021, 12:30:33 pm
You left out this part, Martini.

"He points out that one of the Supreme Court’s most ardent defenders of free speech protections, Hugo Black, was a former member of the Ku Klux Klan. Naturally, a person with such views would fight for robust protections of all manner of speech, Rosenthal said. Such extensions of protected speech can result in an intolerant minority pushing out a tolerant majority in society, he wrote.
He left out the part where Thurgood Marshall was also an ardent defender of free speech. He also left out the part where Hugo Black was A Democrat and  appointed by Roosevelt and went on to become a solid member of the court's liberal wing.

But hey, if you want to adopt the tired right-wing talking point of "He was a former Klansman, the Democrats are the party of the KKK" then be my guest.

Seriously gogators!, you really need to start doing a basic amount of reading up before leaping in.

Quote
The differing traditions have led to today, where those largely controlling who can speak and how they can do so are social media companies and giant technology corporations. The most prominent of those are not only American, they are concentrated in Silicon Valley, one small section not representative of the rest of the nation and not always knowledgeable of other cultural and legal traditions, Rosenthal said. Because of that, the current era would be a good time to re-examine American free speech traditions."
I agree with that, which is why I am in favor of treating those social media companies like the public square, which they have essentially become, and as such they should have similar standards for speech.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on November 18, 2021, 12:32:08 pm
A Dodge that was made in British North America Canada!
Canada made its (correct) choice when they decided to drive on the correct side of the road. That and adopt ice hockey and gridiron as their sports.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Kyndo on November 18, 2021, 12:45:50 pm
Canada made its (correct) choice when they decided to drive on the correct side of the road. That and adopt ice hockey and gridiron as their sports.
Actually, Americans adopted ice-hockey from Canada.  It originated in Montreal, I believe. :smiley:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_hockey
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: tylerthegloob on November 18, 2021, 12:53:40 pm
Actually, Americans adopted ice-hockey from Canada.  It originated in Montreal, I believe. :smiley:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_hockey

Is this fake news?
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Kyndo on November 18, 2021, 01:07:11 pm
It can't be. It's in wiki.
Even Chester agrees that wiki is a definitive source.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on November 18, 2021, 01:30:48 pm
Actually, Americans adopted ice-hockey from Canada.  It originated in Montreal, I believe. :smiley:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_hockey
I meant adopt it from within (or without) as their sport. Not adopt it from America. I suppose "adopt" wasn't the right word.

Regardless, they moved on.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Kyndo on November 18, 2021, 02:27:03 pm
I kind of liked that Lacrosse was the national sport before. It's something very uniquely Canadian.
But, yeah, they moved on. Them colonials gotta differentiate from Mother Britain somehow, right?



So on the topic of fake news, here's something:
There was a covid cluster recently in an eorinijib in Gimhae. Unfortunately, it was one used mainly by foreigners. Because of this, the municipality ordered *all* foreign kids in Gimhae ( a city of over 550k) to --*in that same day* -- get covid tests. There was, of course, instant backlash over it (as it was pointlessly discriminatory) and they nixed the idea a few hours later.

So, a news article with the headline "Covid tests mandatory for foreign daycare students exclusively!" ...would that be fake news or no?
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: tylerthegloob on November 18, 2021, 02:35:41 pm
i saw that headline last night and thought "wow that's fucked" then i scrolled down a bit and found the next headline that it was cancelled. what is the best way to deliver news when information circulates so fast? should they edit the original articles/headlines? that would have obvious drawbacks too though
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Chester Jim on November 18, 2021, 04:59:31 pm
Since this thread is about fake news and fact checking.  Fact check this tweet from a doctor
Quote”for the first time in my career I took care of an 8 yr old boy with mycarditis in the ER. 
https://twitter.com/nursesarah1990/status/1460988170489716741?s=21
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Bakeacake on November 18, 2021, 05:14:29 pm
Since this thread is about fake news and fact checking.  Fact check this tweet from a doctor
Quote”for the first time in my career I took care of an 8 yr old boy with mycarditis in the ER. 
https://twitter.com/nursesarah1990/status/1460988170489716741?s=21
I hope she gets enough thoughts and prayers.

she didn't mention if it was caused by a vaccine, did she?  i couldnt find any response to peoples questions about it
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: VanIslander on November 18, 2021, 07:04:05 pm
I was a newspaper journalist for years before I first "fake news". It was on a station called "Fox". Huh. Fake? I know what inaccurate or false statements are. But fake news was new to me. Ironically, where i heard it first has since dealt it the most, if i understand it right.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: gogators! on November 18, 2021, 07:28:20 pm
He left out the part where Thurgood Marshall was also an ardent defender of free speech. He also left out the part where Hugo Black was A Democrat and  appointed by Roosevelt and went on to become a solid member of the court's liberal wing.

But hey, if you want to adopt the tired right-wing talking point of "He was a former Klansman, the Democrats are the party of the KKK" then be my guest.

Seriously gogators!, you really need to start doing a basic amount of reading up before leaping in.
I agree with that, which is why I am in favor of treating those social media companies like the public square, which they have essentially become, and as such they should have similar standards for speech.

So you're now finding fault with the article YOU linked to and blaming me?

That's rich.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: gogators! on November 18, 2021, 07:30:45 pm
Since this thread is about fake news and fact checking.  Fact check this tweet from a doctor
Quote”for the first time in my career I took care of an 8 yr old boy with mycarditis in the ER. 
https://twitter.com/nursesarah1990/status/1460988170489716741?s=21
She fails to mention how many covid-19 patients have died in the hospital she works in.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Kyndo on November 19, 2021, 07:09:41 am
My brother had myocarditis when he was 5. Had open heart surgery and the works (not for the myocarditis, but for a related issue).
Made it through, fortunately.
He recently got a recurrence of it about a year ago, just before the vaccine rollouts. Sucked, because there was an O2 shortage at the time, so treatment was difficult. Still has it, but it's being managed by some pretty hefty drugs.

Myocarditis is usually pretty mild, but it can suck pretty bad in some cases. Hopefully the kiddo referred to in the twitter was managed okay.


As to fact checking a twitter from a random nurse... who knows. Give her the benefit of the doubt, I guess.

But myocarditis is pretty prevalent in young children, so seeing young kids with it in a hospital that specialized in cardiology is not at all unusual, unfortunately.  :sad:
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: VanIslander on November 19, 2021, 07:20:45 am
... there was an O2 shortage at the time, so treatment was difficult.
In Korea? Or back home?

Stop eating animals, according to science-researched doctor: Dr. Michael Greger.

The opposite of fake news in terms of science experiments: double-blind placebo-controlled human trials.

www.nutritionfacts. org
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Kyndo on November 19, 2021, 09:25:06 am
In Korea? Or back home?

Stop eating animals, according to science-researched doctor: Dr. Michael Greger.

The opposite of fake news in terms of science experiments: double-blind placebo-controlled human trials.

www.nutritionfacts. org
Back home, due to all the covid patients in needing intubation etc. I don't think Korea ever experienced a shortage.

And yeah, he's more or less vegetarian, and has a very low-sodium diet.
The myocarditis is due to congenital heart defects, not life-style choices, unfortunately, which means that living healthy can only reduce symptoms, not eliminate them.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on November 19, 2021, 11:38:23 am
So you're now finding fault with the article YOU linked to and blaming me?

That's rich.
When I linked to it, I linked to it disagreeing with the person's view, so yes. I'm blaming you for not doing due diligence in checking his point and for parroting a tired right-wing talking point.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on November 19, 2021, 12:35:39 pm
Chester Jim, any tracking of this in Korea? Shouldn't there be waves of heart attacks in Korea and K-League athletes collapsing if your claim is true?
Comment Chester Jim? Seem awfully quiet on this.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: VanIslander on November 19, 2021, 01:03:08 pm
More fruit, less meat is good for health

Can we all agree on this headline?
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: VanIslander on November 19, 2021, 01:57:27 pm

No I can't agree, and neither would my doctor!

For me being healthy, it is less fruit and more lean meat.
Yes. Because we consume too much vitamin C and protein deficiency is a real thing. Isn't it?

We have all heard about the negative effects of protein deficiency. Haven't we?

The human body like all animals, heck, even herbivores, don't make all the protein that's needed from amino acids acquired from plants. Where do vegans and horses get their protein?

All of the questions above are misplaced/wrong, aren't they?... gawd i hope so.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Kyndo on November 19, 2021, 02:21:00 pm
Horses, like many ruminants, get their calories from digesting the microorganisms that digest the vegetable matter in their gut.
It's why a foal separated from it's mother directly after birth has a much greater chance of dying from malnutrition: it hasn't had the chance to acquire the necessary gut flora. As for essential amino acids, domestic horses get supplements, while wild horses will travel to find plants higher in whatever requisite amino acid they're low on. Apparently, they can tell from the taste of the plant.

As for vegans, no plant contains high quantities of all nine essential amino-acids (ie the ones our own bodies can synthesis), but one *can* eat a variety of plants to get all your required protein building blocks by mixing and matching. For example, eating rice with beans together will give you all 9 essential amino acids.


Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: VanIslander on November 19, 2021, 02:28:35 pm
Indeed.
... no plant contains high quantities of all nine essential amino-acids (ie the ones our own bodies can synthesis), but one *can* eat a variety of plants to get all your required protein building blocks by mixing and matching. For example, eating rice with beans together will give you all 9 essential amino acids.
No single plant has ALL 9 essential amino acids. That's why millions of people in the Maya, Aztec and Inca civilization consumed the "three sisters": corn, beans, squash.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on November 19, 2021, 02:29:52 pm
A wise man once said: Leaves of three let them be. Leaves of four eat some more.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Kyndo on November 19, 2021, 02:37:56 pm
No single plant has ALL 9 essential amino acids. That's why millions of people in the Inca civilization consumed the "three sisters": corn,
Yep.
And that's essentially (pun) how modern day vegans get their essential amino acids too.

The Three Sisters is pretty amazing for far more than just being nutritionally complete, btw. Fixes nitrogen into the soil, provids natural weed and pest control, and allows for ultra-high crop densities compared to monocultures. Learned a fair bit about it this in high-school socials classes. Your mention of it brought me wayyyyyy back. +1!

A wise man once said: Leaves of three let them be. Leaves of four eat some more.
Are there three? Leaf them alone!  :laugh:  :lipsrsealed:
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: gogators! on November 19, 2021, 08:51:50 pm
When I linked to it, I linked to it disagreeing with the person's view, so yes. I'm blaming you for not doing due diligence in checking his point and for parroting a tired right-wing talking point.
This is you disagreeing: "He does make a really good point here."

The over-reliance of jargon in your posts is another tell.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Chester Jim on November 20, 2021, 02:39:21 am
Holy moly.

This has to be fake.
The official European Union database of suspected drug reaction website is now reporting 30,551 fatalities and 1,163,356 from COVID vaccines Pfizer, Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson, and AztraZeneca through November 13, 2021 based on the data submitted to its system.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/11/european-medicines-agency-data-shows-1163356-adverse-drug-reactions-30551-fatalities-covid-19-vaccinations/


Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: VanIslander on November 20, 2021, 08:31:52 am
"There is no way a multinational corporation would work with governments to promote their shared interests at the expense of the public. Just stop it."

My friend basically said.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Chester Jim on November 20, 2021, 12:27:21 pm
A little of the report has been released.

“FDA produces first 91+ pages of Pfizer's Covid-19 vaccine documents.  It reveals that Pfizer, after just 2 ½ months of vaccine use, received 25,957 reports of “Nervous system disorders.”  Only 54 years, 11 months to go for the remaining pages…”

https://twitter.com/aaronsirisg/status/1461852379893010436?s=21
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: MayorHaggar on November 20, 2021, 03:43:32 pm
Just to be clear: evidently it's perfectly ok to post obvious antivaxxer horseshit here, despite the mods claiming that it isn't ok to do so. How much blood does Waygook.org want on its hands?
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: gogators! on November 20, 2021, 06:08:41 pm
These folks will believe pretty much anything if it fits their anti-science agenda. For example:
Quote
Anthony Fauci was swamped by so many angry messages and threats that in late October his assistant quit answering the phone for two weeks. The U.S. covid chief got 3,600 phone calls in 36 hours, just as he and other Biden administration officials were preparing for the campaign to vaccinate young children.

Much of the onslaught stemmed from a viral and false claim that the agency Fauci leads, the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, had funded a medical experiment in which beagles were trapped in mesh cages filled with diseased sand flies, according to four National Institutes of Health officials familiar with the calls. The outrage was supercharged by a bipartisan letter signed by 24 members of Congress that questioned the agency's funding of medical research on dogs.

Let's not discount the profit motive behind some of this:
Quote
Donald Trump Jr. was selling "Fauci Kills Puppies" T-shirts and hoodies. #FauciLiedDogsDied was trending on Twitter. Far-right platforms such as 8kun were awash in memes casting Fauci as a mad, puppy-killing scientist.

I wonder where those t-shirts were manufactured. My money's on anyplace but the US.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Liechtenstein on November 21, 2021, 10:43:34 am
Freedom of speech? Where?

No place on this planet to be sure.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Chester Jim on November 21, 2021, 02:59:15 pm
These folks will believe pretty much anything if it fits their anti-science agenda. For example:
Let's not discount the profit motive behind some of this:
I wonder where those t-shirts were manufactured. My money's on anyplace but the US.
He funded the gain of function research in China that caused this pandemic,
He also funded maximum pain experiments on monkeys.
He approved of remdesivir in Ghana I think, to fight Ebola, but they said hell no we’lltake the Ebola because remdesivir was killing them

During the aids pandemic Fauci allowed the prescription of AZT to aids patients because the gays begged him.   Well, AZT is like taking chemo nonstop.  So the result was that they died.  Guess what happens when you take azt too long?  You die of AIDS.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: VanIslander on November 21, 2021, 03:44:50 pm
Freedom of speech? Where?

No place on this planet to be sure.
My father used to say: "You can say anything you want, as loud as you want, as long as no one hears it."

Of course, he grew up in Soviet-occupied Hungary and fled during the failed 1956 Hungarian revolt, with a handgun as a 25 year old army-trained officer, then-recent mechanical engineering graduate, ending up in Toronto where he was given $5 and told "Here is Canada."
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: gogators! on November 21, 2021, 07:33:16 pm
He funded the gain of function research in China that caused this pandemic,
He also funded maximum pain experiments on monkeys.
He approved of remdesivir in Ghana I think, to fight Ebola, but they said hell no we’lltake the Ebola because remdesivir was killing them

During the aids pandemic Fauci allowed the prescription of AZT to aids patients because the gays begged him.   Well, AZT is like taking chemo nonstop.  So the result was that they died.  Guess what happens when you take azt too long?  You die of AIDS.
What is that you've been taking too long?

"I think"--who are you kidding, jester?
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: hangook77 on November 22, 2021, 07:58:10 am
"There is no way a multinational corporation would work with governments to promote their shared interests at the expense of the public. Just stop it."

My friend basically said.

Big Pharma must be protected at all costs.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Liechtenstein on November 22, 2021, 11:59:57 am
My father used to say: "You can say anything you want, as loud as you want, as long as no one hears it."

Of course, he grew up in Soviet-occupied Hungary and fled during the failed 1956 Hungarian revolt, with a handgun as a 25 year old army-trained officer, then-recent mechanical engineering graduate, ending up in Toronto where he was given $5 and told "Here is Canada."

Your father was wise.
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Chester Jim on November 23, 2021, 03:01:58 am

Why won’t the capitol police release the footage of the January 6th production. 

Perhaps because it will show them beating an elderly woman to death?

https://twitter.com/cernovich/status/1462844927340126215?s=21
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Kyndo on November 23, 2021, 07:23:26 am
Why won’t the capitol police release the footage of the January 6th production. 
Yes, that's definitely fake news. Plenty of capitol police footage of the Jan 6th shenanigans has been released. Just type in "jan 6th footage" and you'll see dozens of body cam reels.  :undecided:
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Savant on November 23, 2021, 08:23:12 am
Why won’t the capitol police release the footage of the January 6th production. 

Perhaps because it will show them beating an elderly woman to death?

https://twitter.com/cernovich/status/1462844927340126215?s=21

Why is this clown still here posting conspiracy theories and fake news?
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: Kyndo on November 23, 2021, 09:23:05 am
At least the latter is on-topic. Although I'm guessing the on-topic aspect is accidental...  :laugh:
Title: Re: Is this fake news?
Post by: hangook77 on November 23, 2021, 11:56:41 am
I just saw CNN has a new owner and he wants it to go back to real journalism like years ago. 


www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EoPzFJSjPc


Looks like good news for integrity.