Waygook.org

Symposium => "Open" Discussions => Topic started by: SPQR on September 23, 2021, 01:01:40 pm

Title: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: SPQR on September 23, 2021, 01:01:40 pm

Bottom 10

42. Arkansas
Number of people fully vaccinated: 1,349,836
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 44.73

43. Louisiana
Number of people fully vaccinated: 2,069,667
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 44.52

44. Tennessee
Number of people fully vaccinated: 3,037,807
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 44.48

45. Georgia
Number of people fully vaccinated: 4,679,672
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 44.08

46. North Dakota
Number of people fully vaccinated: 330,399
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 43.36

47. Mississippi
Number of people fully vaccinated: 1,265,761
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 42.53

48. Alabama
Number of people fully vaccinated: 2,038,644
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 41.58

49. Idaho
Number of people fully vaccinated: 730,992
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 40.9

50. Wyoming
Number of people fully vaccinated: 236,319
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 40.83

51. West Virginia
Number of people fully vaccinated: 720,036
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 40.18

Top 10

1. Vermont
Number of people fully vaccinated: 430,763
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 69.03

2. Connecticut
Number of people fully vaccinated: 2,424,726
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 68.01

3. Maine
Number of people fully vaccinated: 911,032
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 67.77

4. Massachusetts
Number of people fully vaccinated: 4,643,212
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 67.37

5. Rhode Island
Number of people fully vaccinated: 711,015
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 67.12

6. New Jersey
Number of people fully vaccinated: 5,649,685
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 63.61

7. Maryland
Number of people fully vaccinated: 3,834,301
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 63.42

8. New York
Number of people fully vaccinated: 12,203,762
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 62.73

9. Washington
Number of people fully vaccinated: 4,764,888
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 62.57

10. New Mexico
Number of people fully vaccinated: 1,306,182
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 62.29

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-ranked-by-percentage-of-population-vaccinated-march-15.html

Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: JNM on September 23, 2021, 04:31:50 pm
Even those top state numbers aren’t that high for a place with no supply issues.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Savant on September 23, 2021, 04:47:26 pm
Does that mean more batsh1t Republicans will likely die?
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: SPQR on September 23, 2021, 05:19:49 pm
Well, if this was a vaccine civil war, the south would be
getting it's ass kicked again.  But seriously though, apparently
the south go to evangelical churches that believe god or some
other hyper, omni-dimensional being controls earthly matters,
so getting vaxed is somehow a sin. It must be a drag to get a
toothache or appendicitis in these places.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: tylerthegloob on September 24, 2021, 09:34:02 am
new england: "we're just better than you"
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr C on September 24, 2021, 11:02:11 am
Why is this a partisan issue? 

Who knows?  But it undeniably is.  Vaccination rates:

Democrats: 88 percent
Independents: 60 percent
Republicans: 55 percent
Republicans who support Trump more than party: 46 percent
Republicans who support party more than Trump: 62 percent
Quote

...  The media is making folks turn crazy and become obnoxious assholes.

No, no, no.  The media cannot  make anyone do anything!  People are responsible for their own actions.  Those people who are being obnoxious assholes were always obnoxious assholes.  It's just that everyone has a camera-phone on them nowadays.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: hangook77 on September 24, 2021, 12:35:03 pm
Who knows?  But it undeniably is.  Vaccination rates:

Democrats: 88 percent
Independents: 60 percent
Republicans: 55 percent
Republicans who support Trump more than party: 46 percent
Republicans who support party more than Trump: 62 percent
No, no, no.  The media cannot  make anyone do anything!  People are responsible for their own actions.  Those people who are being obnoxious assholes were always obnoxious assholes.  It's just that everyone has a camera-phone on them nowadays.

Funny, my comments are gone?  Censorship ain't cool kids. 

Anyhew, it seems a lot of pro vacciners are turning into assholes and trying to force themselves on others.  Personally, I'd just say, get the vaccine if you wish or don't get it if you don't wish.  Let everyone go their own way since social distancing and mask wearing is still a thing anyways. 

This vaccine didn't go through the proper trials and testing, so you can hardly blame folks for being reluctant.  The media has pushed other things, like endless wars, etc.  So, why not push this and stoke covid fear now?  Some folks I knew literally went off the deep end during the past year and a half.  I kept living my life. 
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: tylerthegloob on September 24, 2021, 12:44:47 pm
it seems a lot of pro vacciners are turning into assholes and trying to force themselves on others
now THATS what i call news
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Kyndo on September 24, 2021, 12:49:27 pm
it seems a lot of pro vacciners are turning into assholes and trying to force themselves on others
Now THAT'S what I call news!

Fox Entertainment Headlines:
"Drugged up shape-shifting sphincters on nonconsensual-sex rampage! More at 11!"
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: MayorHaggar on September 24, 2021, 01:08:52 pm
Funny, my comments are gone?  Censorship ain't cool kids. 


(https://i.redd.it/l63pi1zkgod61.jpg)
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: MayorHaggar on September 24, 2021, 01:09:33 pm

This vaccine didn't go through the proper trials and testing, so you can hardly blame folks for being reluctant.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7QLektVIAAp_0w.jpg)
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: hangook77 on September 24, 2021, 02:25:54 pm
(https://i.redd.it/l63pi1zkgod61.jpg)

No get falsely accused of saying something you didn't and use that as an excuse to silence them because you can't actually beat them at a debate.  So, just lie about them and censor them instead. 
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: hangook77 on September 24, 2021, 02:30:40 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7QLektVIAAp_0w.jpg)

Trump got booed talking about the vaccine roll out last summer though he was cheered on everything else.  He also wasn't for vaccine passports or forcing people to take it against their will.  Big difference.  I know quite a few Trump supporters last year who said they would vote for him on his Facebook page but that they didn't want the vaccine.  Friends of mine whose comments showed up in my feed.  Point is you can agree with Trump on most things, but disagree with him on one thing.  The world isn't ending here.  He was lied to about the virus and many things in 2020 by the so called experts. 

Either way it doesn't change the fact that most political leaders for decades of both parties sucked and were as useless as toilet waste basket in a Korean bathroom stall.  (Which is pretty useless.) 
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Kyndo on September 24, 2021, 02:44:10 pm
Either way it doesn't change the fact that most political leaders for decades of both parties sucked and were as useless as toilet waste basket in a Korean bathroom stall.
Poetic. Truer words were never spoken.
I feel that we might even be able to broaden those strokes: "Political leaders suck and are as useless as toilet waste basket in a Korean bathroom stall."

Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: MayorHaggar on September 24, 2021, 07:04:19 pm
Poetic. Truer words were never spoken.
I feel that we might even be able to broaden those strokes: "Political leaders suck and are as useless as toilet waste basket in a Korean bathroom stall."

Oh good, nihilist bothsiderism that conveniently lets conservatives off the hook for being odious trolls.

(https://i.redd.it/w6ad7lt9b4831.jpg)
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on September 24, 2021, 07:18:03 pm
Looks like we found out what happened to the Morning Clam guy.

Actually, I think even he was more subtle and fairer in his portrayals.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Kyndo on September 24, 2021, 07:40:21 pm
Poetic. Truer words were never spoken.
I feel that we might even be able to broaden those strokes: "Political leaders suck and are as useless as toilet waste basket in a Korean bathroom stall."
Oh good, nihilist bothsiderism that conveniently lets conservatives off the hook for being odious trolls.

(https://i.redd.it/w6ad7lt9b4831.jpg)


You're just feeling sad and offended because you're a mayor.
But don't worry! We'll make a special exemption for you. Because you're awesome! 
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: MayorHaggar on September 25, 2021, 08:41:03 pm
According to kyndo:

Abraham Lincoln sucked and was as useless as toilet waste basket in a Korean bathroom stall.

FDR sucked and was as useless as toilet waste basket in a Korean bathroom stall.

Winston Churchill sucked and was as useless as toilet waste basket in a Korean bathroom stall.

Hitler ALSO sucked and was as useless as toilet waste basket in a Korean bathroom stall BECAUSE BOTH SIDES ARE JUST AS BAD.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Kyndo on September 25, 2021, 09:13:39 pm
According to kyndo:
Abraham Lincoln sucked and was as useless as toilet waste basket in a Korean bathroom stall.
FDR sucked and was as useless as toilet waste basket in a Korean bathroom stall.
Winston Churchill sucked and was as useless as toilet waste basket in a Korean bathroom stall.
Hitler ALSO sucked and was as useless as toilet waste basket in a Korean bathroom stall BECAUSE BOTH SIDES ARE JUST AS BAD.
According to Kyndo -- who is an expert on all things said by Kyndo -- Kyndo did not, in fact, say that all politicians suck equally.
Kyndo said all politicians sucked, yes, but not that they sucked equally. That was a lame-o addition by sir MayorHaggar in a confusingly misguided attempt to make Kyndo feel bad.


I repeat: Kyndo did not say that all politician suck equally. Kyndo said only that all politicians suck.
Kyndo also very generously exempted you from that blanket statement, and is somewhat concerned at your continued attempts at making Kyndo feel bad.

But whatever, have a good rest-of-your-weekend anyway.  :smiley:
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr C on September 25, 2021, 11:42:28 pm
According to Kyndo -- who is an expert on all things said by Kyndo -- Kyndo did not, in fact, say that all politicians suck equally.
Kyndo said all politicians sucked, yes, but not that they sucked equally. That was a lame-o addition by sir MayorHaggar in a confusingly misguided attempt to make Kyndo feel bad.


I repeat: Kyndo did not say that all politician suck equally. Kyndo said only that all politicians suck.
Kyndo also very generously exempted you from that blanket statement, and is somewhat concerned at your continued attempts at making Kyndo feel bad.

But whatever, have a good rest-of-your-weekend anyway.  :smiley:


Sorry, but you did actually say that all politicians suck. PERIOD.  You did NOT include any caveats or provisos AT ALL, you just REPEATED the sentiment that, and I quote:   "Political leaders suck and are as useless as toilet waste basket in a Korean bathroom stall."

Again, there's no proviso, no waffling, no caveat, not exception or exemption, just the plain statement that political leaders suck.  END OF WITH NO HEDGING. NO EXCEPTIONS, NO PROVISOS.  Admit it, and resign.

Or. admit it, and become a better person.  I know you can.   And ban a couple of our trolls.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: VanIslander on September 25, 2021, 11:45:12 pm
Democrats are more likely to buy "for the common good" arguments;

Republicans are more likely to assert "individual rights" and "the gov't is wrong".

This was predictable.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on September 26, 2021, 11:19:42 am
Democrats are more likely to buy "for the common good" arguments;

Republicans are more likely to assert "individual rights" and "the gov't is wrong".

This was predictable.
Meh, if Trump had won and was telling everyone to "take my big, beautiful vaccine" you'd have a bunch on the left reflexively opposed and Trumpers wanting to be triple vaxxed.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Kyndo on September 27, 2021, 07:55:52 am
Sorry, but you did actually say that all politicians suck. PERIOD.  You did NOT include any caveats or provisos AT ALL, you just REPEATED the sentiment that, and I quote:   "Political leaders suck and are as useless as toilet waste basket in a Korean bathroom stall."

Again, there's no proviso, no waffling, no caveat, not exception or exemption, just the plain statement that political leaders suck.  END OF WITH NO HEDGING. NO EXCEPTIONS, NO PROVISOS.  Admit it, and resign.

Or. admit it, and become a better person.  I know you can.   And ban a couple of our trolls.
I appreciate your confidence in my ability to improve myself!

...but I don't think that you're following the point of discussion. My position is that what you just said is what I said.
I did not include caveats etc, nor did I specifically say that all politicians suck equally. That was somebody else's addition, and not something I personally agree with, hence the discussion.

It was a blanket statement, yes, and maybe a bit hyperbolic, but I stand by it.
It takes a specific kind of personality to want to get into politics, and those who do so with a genuine wish to better the world are far less likely to succeed than those who would happily stab any back or pander to an ideology to gain their throne.
   As with CEOs, borderline sociopaths are statistically overrepresented in politics. Heck, there is evidence that the same is true for psychopathy (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/research-suggests-politicians-are-more-likely-to-be-psychopaths-11364143/).

Finally, unfortunately (fortunately?), I don't have the ability to ban people. I'm just a lowly lvl.1 mod. :sad:

Meh, if Trump had won and was telling everyone to "take my big, beautiful vaccine" you'd have a bunch on the left reflexively opposed and Trumpers wanting to be triple vaxxed.
You're possibly right, but my guess would be that those numbers would be pretty small.
Anyway, hasn't Mr. Trump thrown his support behind the vaccine? Has that turned any ultra-lefts/never-Trumpers against the jab?
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: hangook77 on September 27, 2021, 07:59:40 am
Imagine having the kind of brain that a) thinks there is only one SARS-CoV-2 vaccine, and b) believes this broader statement to be true. Seriously, how deep do you have bury yourself under a mountain of misinformation to get here? How studiously do you have to work to swerve basic reality? It honestly seems like it would take a massive amount of effort, just to announce to the world that you're dumb.



How stupid do you have to be to shove something in your body that's untested and then call everyone else stupid because they're not as dumb as you?  Yeah, you're cool.  I bet everyone wishes they could be like you, obey every rule, and do exactly what they're told when they are told.  You want to put unknown things in your body, be my guest.  Five years from now, we'll see who's the healthiest. 
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr C on September 27, 2021, 08:08:42 am
How stupid do you have to be to shove something in your body that's untested and then call everyone else stupid because they're not as dumb as you?  Yeah, you're cool.  I bet everyone wishes they could be like you, obey every rule, and do exactly what they're told when they are told.  You want to put unknown things in your body, be my guest.  Five years from now, we'll see who's the healthiest. 

Dude, 6.12 BILLION doses of the vaccines have been given to date.  How stupid (to reflect back your question) is a person who calls that "untested"?

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: hangook77 on September 27, 2021, 11:44:24 am
Dude, 6.12 BILLION doses of the vaccines have been given to date.  How stupid (to reflect back your question) is a person who calls that "untested"?

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/

How many years has it been since folks had their doses?  Two years, five years, etc?  I wasn't aware this vaccine has gone through years of testing on controlled groups and results measured over time.  Go into the future and show me the long term results.  Bring me that report.  When it gives the green light, then I will consider taking it.  Not before.  It amazes me how many pro vaccine folks have turned into pushy obnoxious assholes trying to force their views on you and getting in your face being rude demanding you take the vaccine.  A lot of those ignorant folks need a good old fashioned punch to the face and told to shut up and mind their business.  Take the vaccine if you wish or don't take it if you wish.  There use to be a time when everyone was polite enough to mind their own business and not rudely get into people's faces. 
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Kyndo on September 27, 2021, 12:15:10 pm
How many years has it been since folks had their doses?  Two years, five years, etc?  I wasn't aware this vaccine has gone through years of testing on controlled groups and results measured over time.  Go into the future and show me the long term results.
Just fyi, mRNA vaccines have been in development since the 1980s, and have been undergoing trial testing since 2011 (although obviously not the covid one).
Also, all three of the popular covid vaccines have received official FDA approval as of August 23, 2021.

Out of curiosity, what are your opinions about Invermectin?
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on September 27, 2021, 12:25:38 pm
Me personally, I'm all for experimental treatments that show promise. There was the possibility of that with hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin, then they got politicized by both sides. One side referred to it as "fish tank cleaner" and "horse pills" (both false) and another started huffing the commercial/animal-versions of those things.

The fact that people want either the Vax or ivermectin to not work so they can "own" the other side is just awful. If you aren't rooting for the vaccines to work, you're a POS. If you aren't rooting for ivermectin to work, you're a POS.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: hangook77 on September 27, 2021, 12:31:21 pm
Just fyi, mRNA vaccines have been in development since the 1980s, and have been undergoing trial testing since 2011 (although obviously not the covid one).
Also, all three of the popular covid vaccines have received official FDA approval as of August 23, 2021.

Out of curiosity, what are your opinions about Invermectin?

A generic vaccine template still is not specific to covid 19.  Some folks have had bad side effects from taking it.  Otherwise, long term effects on this specific vaccine is still unknown. 

I have no opinions about Ivermectin.  I hear mixed stuff about it, some good and some bad.  I wish not to take something unknown in this context either.  Vitamin C, Zinc, other immune boosters, exercise, Vitamin D exposure to the sun (No mask outside socially distanced exercise) is what I am relying on for now.  That along with masks in crowded areas, hand sanitzier, and social distancing. 
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: hangook77 on September 27, 2021, 12:32:54 pm
Me personally, I'm all for experimental treatments that show promise. There was the possibility of that with hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin, then they got politicized by both sides. One side referred to it as "fish tank cleaner" and "horse pills" (both false) and another started huffing the commercial/animal-versions of those things.

The fact that people want either the Vax or ivermectin to not work so they can "own" the other side is just awful. If you aren't rooting for the vaccines to work, you're a POS. If you aren't rooting for ivermectin to work, you're a POS.

I though France and some other countries did use this and it had good results. 

Hydroxychloroquine, I mean.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Kyndo on September 27, 2021, 12:39:23 pm
I though France and some other countries did use Hydroxychloroquine and and it had good results. 
The EU banned it after continuing trials showed relatively high incidence of dangerous side effects (arrhythmia and death, for example).
https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-hydroxychloroquine-fr-idUSKBN2340A6

Me personally, I'm all for experimental treatments that show promise. There was the possibility of that with hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin, then they got politicized by both sides. One side referred to it as "fish tank cleaner" and "horse pills" (both false) and another started huffing the commercial/animal-versions of those things.

The fact that people want either the Vax or ivermectin to not work so they can "own" the other side is just awful. If you aren't rooting for the vaccines to work, you're a POS. If you aren't rooting for ivermectin to work, you're a POS.
Hydroxychloroquine, medically speaking, is an anti-malarial, and has no particular anti-viral properties, so I don't understand why it was being examined as something that could be used against the corona virus in the first place.

Ivermectin, on the otherhand, has been shown to have anti-viral and anti-inflammatory properties, so it's worth examining.
I imagine that there will be a fair bit of research needed to show how or even if it can be safely used to treat Covid.
Fingers crossed, I guess.

My question, I guess, is why people would shun thoroughly researched, well tested, and FDA approved vaccines in favour of something that is not even remotely close to being sufficiently tested or researched.
Seems unwise.  :undecided:
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Don Hobak on September 27, 2021, 12:43:48 pm
masks in crowded areas, hand sanitzier, and social distancing.

Nice to hear you’ve come around to masking. I know you were not a big fan of it earlier, to put it lightly. Don’t know what the results look like for ivermectin, but I don’t imagine it can compare to the effectiveness, nor the safety, of any of the vaccines that have been rolled out.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Lazio on September 27, 2021, 12:46:48 pm
It amazes me how certain pro China folks have turned into pushy obnoxious assholes trying to force their views on you and getting in your face being rude demanding you to go to China.  A lot of those ignorant folks need a good old fashioned punch to the face and told to shut up and mind their business.  Go to China if you wish or don't if you wish.  There use to be a time when everyone was polite enough to mind their own business and not rudely get into people's faces. 
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: OnNut81 on September 27, 2021, 02:09:04 pm
How many years has it been since folks had their doses?  Two years, five years, etc?  I wasn't aware this vaccine has gone through years of testing on controlled groups and results measured over time.  Go into the future and show me the long term results.  Bring me that report.  When it gives the green light, then I will consider taking it. 

I'm with Hangook on this one.  I want to know how the vaccine guinea pigs are doing sixty to eighty years down the road before I even think of getting a booster shot.  Can any of you soothsayers tell us that?
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: JNM on September 27, 2021, 03:33:03 pm
A generic vaccine template still is not specific to covid 19.  Some folks have had bad side effects from taking it.  Otherwise, long term effects on this specific vaccine is still unknown.   

This is no different than the flu shot, which changes every year based on the emerging strains. Health care workers are required to take it every year in most countries.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Aristocrat on September 27, 2021, 03:36:25 pm
I'm with Hangook on this one.  I want to know how the vaccine guinea pigs are doing sixty to eighty years down the road before I even think of getting a booster shot.  Can any of you soothsayers tell us that?

You do realise after getting the shot you're going to be pissing it out within 48hrs, right? Recalling HS biology class, a vaccine simply acts as a courier service, it
delivers the blueprint of COVID-19 to your B-cells, so they can produce antibodies that target the CCP virus. It has no conceivable way of effecting you long-term.

Given, I'm no virologist, but I can't think of any chemical, when injected into your body that will have long-term effects unless injected regularly. Can you?
The exception being poisons and venoms, which will have a near immediate effect. You could, once-off, mainline some heroine and unless you become addicted to it, it wouldn't have any long-term effects on your body.

It's consistent exposure and intake of harmful things that have long-term effects, not two freakin' vaccine shots.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on September 27, 2021, 03:48:04 pm
Again- "I'm not putting strange stuff in my body" says person who eats random stuff at Korean BBQ joint, drinks from glasses left unattended at bars, and goes on Coupang to order snack foods made with a bunch of stuff that sound like either a food chemical or something that Chemical Ali was put on trial for.  Not to mention in college would hit whatever random rolled up stuff was handed to him but some guy whose nickname was "Animal"
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: gogators! on September 27, 2021, 05:31:10 pm
How stupid do you have to be to shove something in your body that's untested and then call everyone else stupid because they're not as dumb as you?  Yeah, you're cool.  I bet everyone wishes they could be like you, obey every rule, and do exactly what they're told when they are told.  You want to put unknown things in your body, be my guest.  Five years from now, we'll see who's the healthiest. 
It's not untested.

That was his point.

We don't have to wait five years. The unvaccinated dying of Covid-19 are proof of who's the healthiest.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr C on September 27, 2021, 05:53:25 pm
I'm with Hangook on this one.  I want to know how the vaccine guinea pigs are doing sixty to eighty years down the road before I even think of getting a booster shot.  Can any of you soothsayers tell us that?

80 years?

Dude, polio vaccine has not been around that long. 
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: pkjh on September 27, 2021, 06:34:17 pm
Just a little curious how hangook77 is going to go to China if he wants to remain unvaccinated?
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: OnNut81 on September 27, 2021, 06:36:56 pm
80 years?

Dude, polio vaccine has not been around that long. 

I think my facetious support of hangook’s position by suggesting we wait sixty to eighty years and see what happens to people who took the vaccine got missed. 
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: CO2 on September 27, 2021, 06:55:48 pm
I think my facetious support of hangook’s position by suggesting we wait sixty to eighty years and see what happens to people who took the vaccine got missed. 

I was waiting for you to come in and tell everyone. Hahaha
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr C on September 27, 2021, 07:43:28 pm
I think my facetious support of hangook’s position by suggesting we wait sixty to eighty years and see what happens to people who took the vaccine got missed. 

Wow, my bad.  That was far too deadpan.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: gogators! on September 27, 2021, 11:47:43 pm
It's all a liberal plot:

"John Nolte (on Breitbart) argued that the partisan gap in vaccination rates was part of a liberal plot. Liberals like Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Anthony Fauci and Howard Stern have tried so hard to persuade people to get vaccinated, because they know that Republican voters will do the opposite of whatever they say, Nolte wrote.

His argument is certainly bizarre, given that Democratic politicians have been imploring all Americans to get vaccinated and many Republican politicians have not. But Nolte did offer a glimpse at a creeping political fear among some Republicans. “Right now, a countless number of Trump supporters believe they are owning the left by refusing to take a lifesaving vaccine,” Nolte wrote. “In a country where elections are decided on razor-thin margins, does it not benefit one side if their opponents simply drop dead?”

Better red AND dead?

"Since Delta began circulating widely in the U.S., Covid has exacted a horrific death toll on red America: In counties where Donald Trump received at least 70 percent of the vote, the virus has killed about 47 out of every 100,000 people since the end of June, according to Charles Gaba, a health care analyst. In counties where Trump won less than 32 percent of the vote, the number is about 10 out of 100,000."
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: gogators! on September 28, 2021, 12:23:23 am
Just fyi, mRNA vaccines have been in development since the 1980s, and have been undergoing trial testing since 2011 (although obviously not the covid one).
Also, all three of the popular covid vaccines have received official FDA approval as of August 23, 2021.

Out of curiosity, what are your opinions about Invermectin?
My opinion is that he could use a little deworming.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Aristocrat on September 28, 2021, 07:50:05 am
Just a little curious how hangook77 is going to go to China if he wants to remain unvaccinated?

It fits right into his playbook.

He likes to talk big about going to China but for the past decade, hasn't had the guts to go, so a travel ban suits him just fine.
The fact that he chooses to act like a hormonal teenage emo girl and remain unvaccinated, just because it's rebellious, is going
to be his next excuse to not follow through with all his big talk.

He always has, and always will be, a man of nothing but talk.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: OnNut81 on September 28, 2021, 07:54:30 am
It fits right into his playbook.

He likes to talk big about going to China but for the past decade, hasn't had the guts to go, so a travel ban suits him just fine.
The fact that he chooses to act like a hormonal teenage emo girl and remain unvaccinated, just because it's rebellious, is going
to be his next excuse to not follow through with all his big talk.

He always has, and always will be, a man of nothing but talk.

I don't disagree, but "hormonal teenage emo girl."  Ouch.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Kyndo on September 28, 2021, 08:09:58 am
The fact that he chooses to act like a hormonal teenage emo girl and remain unvaccinated, just because it's rebellious, is going
to be his next excuse to not follow through with all his big talk.

I'm surprised that their school allowed them the option of remaining unvaccinated.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if being vaccinated became part of our terms of employment some time in the near future.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Chinguetti on September 28, 2021, 08:27:25 am
I'm surprised that their school allowed them the option of remaining unvaccinated.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if being vaccinated became part of our terms of employment some time in the near future.

The impression that I was given was that, at least for public schools, Korean teachers are required to get vaccinated while the foreign teacher is not. It might still be expected of them at many schools and could effect their renewals in the future should they refuse to get it, but my own school had been surprised that I'd wanted to sign up for vaccination at the same time as the others.

Which kind of surprised me because I had thought that ALL teachers employed by the education office were required to receive the vaccination. Even now I'm not really sure about it. All I know is I couldn't really understand why everyone at my school at the time thought I was anti-vax, lol.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Kyndo on September 28, 2021, 08:30:04 am
All I know is I couldn't really understand why everyone at my school at the time thought I was anti-vax, lol.

They probably hear about the problems the USA has with their vaccine programmes, and assume that all Americans are like the ones they see on TV.
As always, it's the extremists who ruin it for everybody else.  :sad:
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: CO2 on September 28, 2021, 08:30:36 am
I couldn't really understand why everyone at my school at the time thought I was anti-vax, lol.

Stop ranting about Jewish 9/11 conspiracies at lunchtime, Chinguetti.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Chinguetti on September 28, 2021, 08:36:55 am
Yeah, I get the conspiracy theories and the news and all, but I'd been very, very vocal about my support of vaccination, and had even expressed numerous times that I couldn't wait to get vaxxed.

I mean there were Kteachers who were spouting the conspiracy theories and I was the one telling them that those theories have no basis.

This is just "kimchi is too spicy for foreigners" all over again, even after they've watched me eat it a shit-ton of times, haha.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: pkjh on September 28, 2021, 08:37:24 am
The impression that I was given was that, at least for public schools, Korean teachers are required to get vaccinated while the foreign teacher is not. It might still be expected of them at many schools and could effect their renewals in the future should they refuse to get it, but my own school had been surprised that I'd wanted to sign up for vaccination at the same time as the others.

Which kind of surprised me because I had thought that ALL teachers employed by the education office were required to receive the vaccination. Even now I'm not really sure about it. All I know is I couldn't really understand why everyone at my school at the time thought I was anti-vax, lol.
I usually skim through the tons of message that the school sends every day on their app, in an attempt to improve my Korean. And I do know it's not mandatory. But every single person working at my school has gotten vaccinated. I do believe full-time tenured teachers can't be fired over this. But they sure can be shunned  by being sent to really undesirable locations. I do see them saying it would be a requirement for contract, or incoming new teachers though.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Chinguetti on September 28, 2021, 08:40:38 am
I usually skim through the tons of message that the school sends every day on their app, in an attempt to improve my Korean. And I do know it's not mandatory. But every single person working at my school has gotten vaccinated. I do believe full-time tenured teachers can't be fired over this. But they sure can be shunned  by being sent to really undesirable locations. I do see them saying it would be a requirement for contract, or incoming new teachers though.

Oh, my coteacher told me it was required, like they didn't have a choice.

It could be one of those things that's "required," I guess.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: pkjh on September 28, 2021, 08:46:55 am
Oh, my coteacher told me it was required, like they didn't have a choice.

It could be one of those things that's "required," I guess.
Probably socially required, parental pressure. Being 'shunned' is a huge factor in Korea, especially in elementary schools, at least in my experience.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Aristocrat on September 28, 2021, 08:53:57 am
Oh, my coteacher told me it was required, like they didn't have a choice.

It could be one of those things that's "required," I guess.

One of my CTs didn't take hers. She told me she's afraid as she has a "heart condition" and relies heavily on BS social media stories.

VICE gave some very interesting examples of what happens on social media and how it's highlighting how many stupid, gullible, idiots there are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEmn_o3tnrc&t=1s&ab_channel=VICENews
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on September 28, 2021, 12:27:40 pm
Hydroxychloroquine, medically speaking, is an anti-malarial, and has no particular anti-viral properties, so I don't understand why it was being examined as something that could be used against the corona virus in the first place.
Salicylic acid is part of aspirin. It's also a skin care product for treating acne. It also treats dandruff and warts. Stuff can be effective against multiple conditions.

Quote
My question, I guess, is why people would shun thoroughly researched, well tested, and FDA approved vaccines in favour of something that is not even remotely close to being sufficiently tested or researched.
I don't know. Anti-vaxxers are dumb.

How long has ivermectin been tested? If it's reaching a similar duration and showing results, then people shouldn't resist it either. I mean, is there really THAT much less research and testing with ivermectin vs. the vaccine (at the vaccine's release date)?
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on September 28, 2021, 12:29:28 pm
One of my CTs didn't take hers. She told me she's afraid as she has a "heart condition"
Not to be contrarian, but she might genuinely have a heart condition. I could understand someone with a heart condition they take medication for being a bit leery about the vaccine when you hear reports of cardiac issues.

Of course at the same time, the risk of COVID far exceeds the risk of heart complications. But I can understand someone maybe wanting to be at the back of the line. They should still be in line, but I get wanting to wait and see.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on September 28, 2021, 12:33:35 pm
In counties where Donald Trump received at least 70 percent of the vote, the virus has killed about 47 out of every 100,000 people since the end of June, according to Charles Gaba, a health care analyst. In counties where Trump won less than 32 percent of the vote, the number is about 10 out of 100,000."
If true, then the difference in deaths is not sufficient to swing an election. Almost all counties where Trump when 70% of the vote are sub-100k in population. That would be like 30ish people. Each state might have at most, a few dozen counties that go hard Trump. I mean it could make a difference, but probably not.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: tylerthegloob on September 28, 2021, 12:39:03 pm
this just in from flawed reasoning news:
trump voters 400% more likely to die from coronavirus
wow!
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr C on September 28, 2021, 02:59:52 pm
this just in from flawed reasoning news:
trump voters 400% more likely to die from coronavirus
wow!

I'm not entirely sure what your point is here.  It's an overstatement of the case, and the numbers don't go there, exactly.

But the reasoning isn't flawed. 

Unvaccinated people are multiple times more likely to die than vaccinated people if they get Covid.
Those same unvaccinated people are less like likely to follow mitigation measures, therefore much more likely to get Covid than vaccinated people.
Donald Trump followers are much more likely than any other (political) demographic to be unvaccinated.
Thus Donald Trump followers are much more likely to die of Covid than other groups.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Kyndo on September 28, 2021, 03:39:59 pm
Salicylic acid is part of aspirin. It's also a skin care product for treating acne. It also treats dandruff and warts. Stuff can be effective against multiple conditions.
Yes, that's of course true, but insofar as I can tell, there's no link between it and reductions in viral load. My question wasn't rhetorical: I'm still uncertain what aspect of Hydroxychloroquine was being examined as a treatment for the corona virus.

How long has ivermectin been tested? If it's reaching a similar duration and showing results, then people shouldn't resist it either. I mean, is there really THAT much less research and testing with ivermectin vs. the vaccine (at the vaccine's release date)?

There's been a lot of studies done on ivermectin, but only recently has it been studied as a possible anti-viral.
Here's one of the more recent studies done that shows that it has the potential to eventually be useful for the treatment of covid:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354220302011

Disclaimer:
Please note that I'm not suggesting that shooting yourself up with horse dewormer is anything but sheer idiocy. The stuff needs to be researched, modified, and tested first!


As for mRNA vaccines, they've been intensely theorized about, studied, and refined for about 35 years. Having it specifically produce spike proteins that will trigger an immuno-response against covid is, obviously, pretty recent.
That said, making a virus specific mRNA vaccine is all about finding the appropriate protein codes to mount on the delivery system (the mechanism that will get the mRNA through the cell membranes and into the cytoplasm where the ribosomes can then read the code and crank out the appropriate proteins). It is the delivery system that has taken so very long to develop.

Not to say that finding the right antigen proteins is trivial, but it's not the long and grueling process that the rest of it was.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: SPQR on September 28, 2021, 06:58:12 pm
this just in from flawed reasoning news:
trump voters 400% more likely to die from coronavirus
wow!

No big loss.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Savant on September 29, 2021, 08:14:38 pm
this just in from flawed reasoning news:
trump voters 400% more likely to die from coronavirus
wow!

I wish it were higher.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: hippo on September 30, 2021, 01:24:59 am
I wish it were higher.

Wishing people's death seems slightly harsh.  Death is so final. 

If people were so concerned about coronavirus, they would be making sure the globe got vaccinated rather than focusing so much on voters in one country.  Money is just a story.  There are enough resources to vaccinate the globe, dropping patents, so I do not see why focusing on voters in a country with a small percentage of the world's population is useful.  Viruses do not directly care about the development status or GDP of nations.

I did not vote for the elephant tribe, reluctantly choosing the donkey tribe instead insofar as it means anything, but I am not really sure why people wish for more members of a voting block to die. 

It seems like you should need an extraordinarily high justification for wanting people to die (e.g. killing a school shooter in the act because they are killing people).
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on September 30, 2021, 02:07:52 am
I wish it were higher.
My man! Wishing death on those that don't agree with you politically.

Well done. Fine person you are and fine company you keep.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Savant on September 30, 2021, 07:04:06 am
My man! Wishing death on those that don't agree with you politically.

Well done. Fine person you are and fine company you keep.

Just the Trump voters who choose to not get vaccinated and not wear masks for idiotic and selfish reasons. Just a modern day version of “natural selection”.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on September 30, 2021, 11:40:01 am
Just the Trump voters who choose to not get vaccinated and not wear masks for idiotic and selfish reasons. Just a modern day version of “natural selection”.
99% of them will be fine. That survival rate is too high. You got any other ideas to handle them?
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Savant on September 30, 2021, 11:48:05 am
99% of them will be fine. That survival rate is too high. You got any other ideas to handle them?

No vaccination and no mask; no, I don't think, 99% of them will be fine.

Handle them? Nah, I would just deny them medical attention if they wish to deny that Covid exists.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on September 30, 2021, 12:23:46 pm
No vaccination and no mask; no, I don't think, 99% of them will be fine.
What % do you think would die and what data do you have to support that?

Quote
Handle them? Nah, I would just deny them medical attention if they wish to deny that Covid exists.
You'd have it be written law that hospitals can deny treatment based on political belief/vaccination status/political ideology?
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: tony tony tony on September 30, 2021, 12:36:40 pm
This thread... KILLING or DYING for an ideology?

It reminds me of a movie I once saw.

This was before he started getting in the mess and was driving the ship to them in an escape pod, and I think it is because it was before his powers started getting out of control, and he was really a child, still wasn't in a bad state of mind... still had a child's curiosity and innocence.
 In this he is a boy in a classroom, and looks at a drawing that is of some sort, and the boys in the classroom start giving him a hard time about it.

He is telling the teacher what he did with the drawing and the teacher shows it to the class and they are going nuts.

The teacher asks him if he wants to continue to stay with them, but he says he'll take the punishment.

Integrity. Use it or lose it. What people do with their own body is of no conern to you.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Kyndo on September 30, 2021, 12:41:27 pm
You'd have it be written law that hospitals can deny treatment based on political belief/vaccination status/political ideology?
That would be an utter disaster for a myriad of different reasons.  :huh:

On the other hand, triaging patients depending on their vaccination status has been up for consideration for a while now, the argument being that available beds are severely limited, and that those without the appropriate vaccines are less likely to survive or benefit from treatment than those who do.
   
    Thoughts? There are good points to be made both for and against this, in my opinion.

It reminds me of a movie I once saw...
I'm wracking my brain for a movie that would fit your description, and for some reason, the only thing that comes to mind is the video for Pearl Jam's "Jeremy".

Which is an awesome song, so thanks for bringing it to mind.  :smiley:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS91knuzoOA&ab_channel=PearljamVEVO



Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Savant on September 30, 2021, 12:48:30 pm
What % do you think would die and what data do you have to support that?
You'd have it be written law that hospitals can deny treatment based on political belief/vaccination status/political ideology?

Why use deaths solely as a measure? You can be severely affected by Covid without dying, which also puts a burden on the health system.
You've used political belief and ideology as a factor, not me. I don't care who they support but facts are that most of the non-vaccinated and non-mask wearing crowd are Republicans ergo likely Trump supporters.

If someone has chosen not to get vaccinated during a pandemic then they are a public health danger to the safety of the many [doctors/nurses/patients/family members] which should trump [the irony] that of those who put themselves first.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Aristocrat on September 30, 2021, 12:52:41 pm
people do with their own body is of no conern to you.

Someone wants to get drunk, no concern of mine.
Same person gets behind the wheel, now it becomes my concern.

After getting my 2nd shot I have very little fear about getting the virus, what does concern me is how long this virus sticks around and the effect it has on local and global economies.

When a person refuses to take the vaccine they end up:

- draining hospital resources when they ultimately do get sick
- giving the virus more opportunities to mutate
- prolonging the pandemic
- straining and crippling our economies

When your actions endanger the rest of society they become more than your business.

I struggle to comprehend how thick someone has to be to not understand these rather basic arguments.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: tylerthegloob on September 30, 2021, 01:09:05 pm
When a person refuses to take the vaccine they end up:

- draining hospital resources when they ultimately do get sick

obese people drain hospital resources too (i assume).  should fat people pay more for health insurance? (do they already? idk). i dont mean to troll you. i think these questions are related. if people who refuse to vaccine have to forfeit some rights, what about people who refuse to diet? what about people who refuse something more specific (idk like drinking sugar-free soda)? where do we draw the line? am i way off base here?
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Aristocrat on September 30, 2021, 01:31:00 pm
obese people drain hospital resources too (i assume).  should fat people pay more for health insurance? (do they already? idk). i dont mean to troll you. i think these questions are related. if people who refuse to vaccine have to forfeit some rights, what about people who refuse to diet? what about people who refuse something more specific (idk like drinking sugar-free soda)? where do we draw the line? am i way off base here?

If I had things my way, obesity would NOT be recognised as a disability and you would not be entitled to a cent in benefits or welfare. It's only the US, the UK and Canada (I think) that have these warped idea, policies and culture which actively keep people disgustingly enormous at the cost of the taxpayer. Good luck trying to get fat so you can live off benefits in SA. South African state benefits probably wouldn't cover a weeks' groceries. In Korea? I've got my issues with Korea, but one thing I can commend them for is that people still have a sense of propriety regarding their appearance in public unlike many westerners who seem to have lost their ability to feel shame.

Where does the line get drawn? Good question, I'd say when your actions directly endanger the public.

When you're obese and the taxpayers is paying for it, yes, you're a fat parasite, but you're not putting anyone in immediate danger so that can change when it changes. Anti-vaxers are, on top of taxing the economy and healthcare system, putting everyone else in very real danger is each day the pandemic lasts increases the likelihood of a new a deadlier variant mutating.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: tylerthegloob on September 30, 2021, 01:47:44 pm
i think you're spot on as always aristocrat ;)
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: L I on September 30, 2021, 02:03:44 pm
When you're obese and the taxpayers is paying for it, yes, you're a fat parasite, but you're not putting anyone in immediate danger so that can change when it changes.

The fatter a person is, the less likely the vaccine is to work.

The fatter a person is, the more likely they are to be sick longer, meaning the more chance the virus has to mutate.

A stronger immune system - which comes with being healthy - means a shorter period of illness.

The less in shape people are, the longer this pandemic will last.

Fully vaccinated? Oh, you’ve still got to wear a mask and socially distance because of all the mutated variants. Bleh.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: L I on September 30, 2021, 02:09:59 pm
The least vaccinated states also have higher obesity rates than the most vaccinated states, further compounding the problem. Unvaccinated and in great shape? You’ll beat the virus quickly, meaning very low chance of mutation. But how many Americans are in great shape? Not many. Same holds true for most of the rest of the world.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: JNM on September 30, 2021, 03:56:53 pm
If you think if healthcare as an insured service (which it is regardless of who is funding it), it is entirely reasonable to insist the insured take reasonable measures to prevent loss.

That’s why insurance plans often exclude activities (extreme sports), require regular check-ups to catch things early, and cover vaccines 100% with no co-pay.

I pay a high-BMI premium for my private health insurance, and pre-existing conditions are not covered. Smokers also pay more.

They also commonly have a pandemic exclusion. Both my private and employer funded plans have this.

It wouldn’t surprise me if they started adding exclusions or premiums based on vaccine status since it is statistically significant.

Edits: A couple grammatical errors 
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on September 30, 2021, 04:04:15 pm
Why use deaths solely as a measure? You can be severely affected by Covid without dying, which also puts a burden on the health system.
You've used political belief and ideology as a factor, not me. I don't care who they support but facts are that most of the non-vaccinated and non-mask wearing crowd are Republicans ergo likely Trump supporters.

If someone has chosen not to get vaccinated during a pandemic then they are a public health danger to the safety of the many [doctors/nurses/patients/family members] which should trump [the irony] that of those who put themselves first.
The point you're making here is perfectly reasonable and fine (although the rates on non-vaccination amongst the African-American community suggests that there's more than "Trump supporter" to it).

But the data does not support some catastrophic chance of death and I think the morality of denying medical care to someone because they engaged in risky behavior is really dubious and is not scientifically supported as a way to help prevent the spread of infectious disease, in fact it may very well exacerbate it.

I mean, this sounds like denying medical care to HIV patients. It's one thing to deny entry to prevent spread, it's another to deny medical care period under the assumption that their lifestyle choices mean they shouldn't receive care.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: hippo on September 30, 2021, 04:20:13 pm
The focus always seems to be on the US or a handful of developed countries.  There are plenty of Petri dishes for the virus to mutate in other nations.  The virus does not care about human politics. 

Is the coronavirus serious?  Is it easily communicable?  Does it mutate easily?  Have we had mutations that are much more contagious and/or harmful than it was at the beginning at the end of the pandemic?  Might it be possible to have a mutation that renders the virus less impacted by the vaccines or even makes the vaccines ineffective?

If the coronavirus is so serious, as I think it most definitely is, then it would make sense to vaccinate people throughout the world.  Drop the patents, share information about how to make vaccines, and help nations without the resources to manufacture on their own. 

In relation to the pandemic, I worry about vaccine nationalism more than how many obese people there are, who people voted for, or other information.   Is the coronavirus a serious disease or not?  If it is serious, there needs to be a robust global response.

I suspect there is concern among drug manufacturers about a precedent for dropping patents and following the Jonas Salk model might do.  If you can drop the patent for this disease, what about dropping patents for other diseases?  Surely there is much more at play than that, but I see Pfizer pushing for booster shots in the US when much of the globe doesn't have vaccines and I cannot square the circle.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on September 30, 2021, 04:20:24 pm
Thoughts? There are good points to be made both for and against this, in my opinion.
I'm wracking my brain for a movie that would fit your description, and for some reason, the only thing that comes to mind is the video for Pearl Jam's "Jeremy".
It really is difficult. I sympathize with those who are starting to lose patience with the anti-vaxx crowd and are leaning towards "you made your bed, now lie in it." to an extent. It was understandable during the opening period (I've always used the phrase- "It's fine to want to be at the back of the line so you can wait and see, especially if you might have some factors, but you should still get in line"). I think we're starting to move beyond that point.

Some random thoughts
- I'd be much more comfortable with anti-vaxxers if they were around 10% of the population. We really need another 20-30% in the U.S. to get vaxxed.
- On the other hand, the relatively low mortality rate for COVID means that various stern measures might be disproportional. To put myself in the shoes of an anti-vaxxer, from their perspective they see some fat person yelling at them to get a vaccine or be fired because they're endangering their health over a disease that has a pretty low mortality rate amongst healthy adults below a certain age comparable to that of other diseases and causes of death that don't involve such intervention. It does seem that there is a failure of proportionality taking place. "We had to fire these people and beat them up while arresting them in order to save them and us."  starts to wade into "We had to bomb the village in order to save it" territory.
- At some point the anti-vax crowd, which claims to be pro-economy, has to put their money where their mouth is and be pro-economy and get vaxxed and mask up if it gets business rolling. I think if a "grand bargain" of "You get vaxxed and mask in these specified locations" and ALL other restrictions will go away was offered, that would be a fair offer and if the anti-vaxxers reject that, then I'd be in favor of much sterner measures. The thing is, we're close to that, but there are a few bat-crap restrictions and panic measures, combined with sloppy messaging that are inhibiting that, but the onus is definitely much more on the anti-vax crowd.
- The messaging by the pro-vax crowd has been about the worst I could imagine. Not everything has to be a hard sell and some of the more hysterical claims of doom as well as some of the mischaracterization s just make things worse. Case in point, what was done recently to Jonathan Isaac, NBA player. He gave an interview and the journalist basically said he decided to be anti-vax because he studied black history and watched Trump speeches (?????), which Isaac said was completely false and mischaracterized him, which I tend to suspect happened (watch the interview, Isaac may be (is) wrong, but he does not come across as a liar or someone basing his choice off of kooky stuff).
- As I keep saying, given how the Dems were when Trump started Operation Warp Speed, I really do think that in some parallel universe, Trumpers are getting triple-vaxxed with Trump's "big, beautiful vaccine" while anti-Trumpers are anti-vax. If people on both sides can't recognize that unfortunate part of human nature and at least have some sympathy for people on the other side, then that's sad.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on September 30, 2021, 04:22:12 pm
obese people drain hospital resources too (i assume).  should fat people pay more for health insurance? (do they already? idk). i dont mean to troll you. i think these questions are related. if people who refuse to vaccine have to forfeit some rights, what about people who refuse to diet? what about people who refuse something more specific (idk like drinking sugar-free soda)? where do we draw the line? am i way off base here?
This. People just tossing out such measures seem to not understand the concept of legal precedent and the affect that has. You give this sort of action legal standing, it opens up a Pandora's Box. Now, it might be worth it to do so, and it might well lead to nothing, but it should be carefully considered before we do it and people need to understand real concerns about it.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: VanIslander on September 30, 2021, 06:24:18 pm
According to the CDC, 42.4% of Americans were clinically obese in 2018, with an increasing rate, year after year.

In a democracy, the gov't is unlikely to take any measure to upset, challenge, or even inconvenience such a percentage. Obesity is becoming the new norm. "Average" blood pressure, heart rates, bloodwork (e.g., LDL-HDL ratio) will be far from ideal: disease-forming.

The southeastern states aren't as vaccinated, are obese and have higher cancer rates (take a look at cancer maps of the U.S.). Yikes.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on September 30, 2021, 06:44:27 pm
https://news.yahoo.com/wh-touts-successful-vaccination-rate-190537258.html (https://news.yahoo.com/wh-touts-successful-vaccination-rate-190537258.html)

(https://i.imgur.com/dVZe7PK.png)
Trump didnt get 30% of the black vote.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on September 30, 2021, 06:49:38 pm
Yes. So?
If it was about being Trumpers it should reflect his share of the black vote.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: gogators! on October 01, 2021, 05:43:12 am
Interesting comparison/update:
"South Korea, Japan and Malaysia have administered more doses per 100 people than the U.S., a pace that seemed unthinkable in the spring.

Vaccines have helped keep most South Koreans out of the hospital. Among fully vaccinated people who contracted Covid there, about 0.6 percent had severe illness and about 0.1 percent died, according to the country’s Disease Control and Prevention Agency.

In Japan, serious cases have fallen by half over the last month, to a little over 1,000 a day. Hospitalizations plummeted from a high of just over 230,000 in late August to around 31,000 on Tuesday.

The turnabout, my colleagues Sui-Lee Wee, Damien Cave and Ben Dooley write, is as much a testament to the region’s success in securing supplies as it is to some Americans’ vaccine hesitancy and political opposition.

Vaccines are not polarizing in the Asia-Pacific region. Movements against them have been relatively small, without the sympathetic news media, advocacy groups and politicians that can exacerbate misinformation.

Overall, most Asians have put community needs over their individual freedoms. They’ve also trusted their governments, although many of those governments have also used incentives, such as lifting restrictions for the fully vaccinated."

Interesting conclusion: no Fox News or Newsmax leads to a healthier population.

Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: pkjh on October 01, 2021, 09:09:17 am
Interesting comparison/update:
"South Korea, Japan and Malaysia have administered more doses per 100 people than the U.S., a pace that seemed unthinkable in the spring.

Vaccines have helped keep most South Koreans out of the hospital. Among fully vaccinated people who contracted Covid there, about 0.6 percent had severe illness and about 0.1 percent died, according to the country’s Disease Control and Prevention Agency.

In Japan, serious cases have fallen by half over the last month, to a little over 1,000 a day. Hospitalizations plummeted from a high of just over 230,000 in late August to around 31,000 on Tuesday.

The turnabout, my colleagues Sui-Lee Wee, Damien Cave and Ben Dooley write, is as much a testament to the region’s success in securing supplies as it is to some Americans’ vaccine hesitancy and political opposition.

Vaccines are not polarizing in the Asia-Pacific region. Movements against them have been relatively small, without the sympathetic news media, advocacy groups and politicians that can exacerbate misinformation.

Overall, most Asians have put community needs over their individual freedoms. They’ve also trusted their governments, although many of those governments have also used incentives, such as lifting restrictions for the fully vaccinated."

Interesting conclusion: no Fox News or Newsmax leads to a healthier population.
I think memory has a huge factor. Most Americans don't remember when common diseases, that can be eliminated by vaccines, were a problem. However, in large parts of Asia, it's still an issue. And in South Korea like up to the late-80s lots of people were still getting preventable diseases. People here were still getting measles, and the mumps up to the 2000s.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: CO2 on October 01, 2021, 09:18:39 am
It's one thing to say "They didn't get vacced, what did they think would happen" and another to say "HEH, thinning the herd."

Do you relish the thought of people getting hit by cars for not having looked both ways?

Again, people should get jabbed but to take delight in their death makes you look like a piece of 똥.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 01, 2021, 11:16:31 am
Ah, I think you thought the chart referred only to black voters. It's total population, fully vaccinated. The new stats refer to people who've received at least one shot, but even when you look at those who are fully vaxxed, black Americans are a few percentage points behind whites (though by all accounts race isn't recorded for every dosage, so these are really just estimates). The point is, being a Trump voter is a stronger determinant of being unvaccinated than being black.
But being a Trump voter is NOT a strong determinant amongst black people, suggesting something else is at play.

My guess is education and/or religious service attendance is more strongly correlated.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 01, 2021, 11:22:29 am
Interesting conclusion: no Fox News or Newsmax leads to a healthier population.
If that's what you conclude after reading that, that's a shocking lack of critical thinking skills, scientific acumen, and reading comprehension.

For starters, if there's something we can all agree on, it's that the Korean media has an absence of sensationalist, irresponsible partisan journalism.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr C on October 01, 2021, 12:59:33 pm
But being a Trump voter is NOT a strong determinant amongst black people, suggesting something else is at play.


Uh:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/08/04/what-about-black-people-defense-republican-vaccine-hesitancy/

Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 01, 2021, 01:28:38 pm
Uh:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/08/04/what-about-black-people-defense-republican-vaccine-hesitancy/
Again, this doesn't contradict my point- That the level of vaccine hesitancy amongst black people is not in line with black partisanship, thus in their case, there is something beyond simply "being Trump supporters". Amongst white people? Yes, there is a very strong correlation. It's fair to say that white people not getting vaxxed are overwhelmingly Trump supporters. It is not fair to say that Americans who aren't getting vaxxed are overwhelmingly Trump supporters.

If you say "It's all because of Trump supporters", then you won't be able to understand the issue regarding black Americans who are not getting vaxxed.

As far as Latinos, their numbers appear in line with Trump supporters, though I wonder about the partisan breakdown amongst Latinos not getting vaxxed because I suspect in both the Latino and black communities, education and religious intensity is a significant factor and strongly religious blacks and Latinos have much less of a partisan split than white Americans (and something that Democrats should point out when the GOP panders and plays identity politics by falsely claiming the Dems are a "godless" party)
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr C on October 01, 2021, 01:38:42 pm
Again, this doesn't contradict my point- That the level of vaccine hesitancy amongst black people is not in line with black partisanship, thus in their case, there is something beyond simply "being Trump supporters". Amongst white people? Yes, there is a very strong correlation. It's fair to say that white people not getting vaxxed are overwhelmingly Trump supporters. It is not fair to say that Americans who aren't getting vaxxed are overwhelmingly Trump supporters.

If you say "It's all because of Trump supporters", then you won't be able to understand the issue regarding black Americans who are not getting vaxxed.

As far as Latinos, their numbers appear in line with Trump supporters, though I wonder about the partisan breakdown amongst Latinos not getting vaxxed because I suspect in both the Latino and black communities, education and religious intensity is a significant factor and strongly religious blacks and Latinos have much less of a partisan split than white Americans (and something that Democrats should point out when the GOP panders and plays identity politics by falsely claiming the Dems are a "godless" party)

Someone missed the point here, but it wasn't me.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Adel on October 01, 2021, 02:02:51 pm
Again, this doesn't contradict my point- That the level of vaccine hesitancy amongst black people is not in line with black partisanship, thus in their case, there is something beyond simply "being Trump supporters". Amongst white people? Yes, there is a very strong correlation. It's fair to say that white people not getting vaxxed are overwhelmingly Trump supporters. It is not fair to say that Americans who aren't getting vaxxed are overwhelmingly Trump supporters.

If you say "It's all because of Trump supporters", then you won't be able to understand the issue regarding black Americans who are not getting vaxxed.



(https://64.media.tumblr.com/0a504f75d3a1705748220b770aa23c5e/tumblr_inline_o3z3ukhWOw1s8w9kp_500.gif)
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 01, 2021, 02:33:43 pm
Oh, a strawman. Never would've guessed that was coming.
What is your point? That being a Trump supporter is the biggest factor? Because that's a gross over-simplification of a much more complex issue. Did you look at education or religiosity?

Or do you accept Savant's simplistic point that the anti-vaxxers are overwhelmingly Trumpists?
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr C on October 01, 2021, 03:05:26 pm
What is your point? That being a Trump supporter is the biggest factor? Because that's a gross over-simplification of a much more complex issue. Did you look at education or religiosity?

Or do you accept Savant's simplistic point that the anti-vaxxers are overwhelmingly Trumpists?

It defies every bit of the available evidence to suggest there is not a massive partisan divide on Covid vaccination--only an imbecile or the intentionally obtuse would try to.

And furthermore that Trump supporters lead all other political demographics in vaccine refusal by a wide (and widening) margin.  No one capable of understanding a graph, like say, a statistician, would say otherwise.

As the article I pointed you to ends:  "Trying to rebut a largely partisan opposition to vaccination by blaming a historically disadvantaged group as the real problem without actually exhibiting any curiosity about the distinctions is not a real testament to intellectual rigor."

But if the shoe fits ...
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Savant on October 01, 2021, 05:30:36 pm
Oh look it’s Marty putting fuel again on his own straw man arguments.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 01, 2021, 06:09:21 pm
And furthermore that Trump supporters lead all other political demographics in vaccine refusal by a wide (and widening) margin.  No one capable of understanding a graph, like say, a statistician, would say otherwise.
Okay, I will make this so simple, even you dunderheads can figure it out.

Is vegetarianism based on political ideology? (Anti-Meat)
50% of Greens (35% of the population) are vegetarian, therefore most vegetarians are Green. A TRUE statement

What is not true? That being a vegetarian is correlated with being a Green, why?

Because you have another data point

70% of Indians are not vegetarian, 30% are. However only 8% of Indians voted for the Green Party.

Now are these 30% of Indians being vegetarian, is it because they support the Green Party? Or perhaps is there another factor? Perhaps while there can be a correlation between vegetarianism and political affiliation in SOME groups, it is not prevalent in such a degree across all groups as to make it a conclusive statement.

And that is the same mistake you lot are making. Now when you remove a lot of the current political baggage, it becomes easy to see where the weaknesses in the argument are. But some people are so blinded by politics they can't do that.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 01, 2021, 06:20:52 pm
It defies every bit of the available evidence to suggest there is not a massive partisan divide on Covid vaccination--only an imbecile or the intentionally obtuse would try to.
By that "logic" your response to the 30% of black Americans hesitant to take the vaccine, would be to tell them that they were lied to when they voted for Donald Trump and do a bunch of stuff about Trump and Repubicans?

Do you have any idea how dim-witted that would be?

Quote
No one capable of understanding a graph, like say, a statistician, would say otherwise.
You couldn't even grasp the concept/paradox being a 10/10 to 33% of the population being a better product than a product that was 7/10 to 100% of the population.

One of the very purposes of statistical analysis is to look at seemingly contradictory information such as that and determine why the first product is outselling the second product and similar quandaries.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Savant on October 01, 2021, 07:01:39 pm
What is your point? That being a Trump supporter is the biggest factor? Because that's a gross over-simplification of a much more complex issue. Did you look at education or religiosity?

Or do you accept Savant's simplistic point that the anti-vaxxers are overwhelmingly Trumpists?

Aren't the facts that most people who are not vaccinated: Republicans. Which these days may as well be called Trumpicans.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Savant on October 01, 2021, 07:04:53 pm
By that "logic" your response to the 30% of black Americans hesitant to take the vaccine, would be to tell them that they were lied to when they voted for Donald Trump and do a bunch of stuff about Trump and Repubicans?

Do you have any idea how dim-witted that would be?
You couldn't even grasp the concept/paradox being a 10/10 to 33% of the population being a better product than a product that was 7/10 to 100% of the population.

One of the very purposes of statistical analysis is to look at seemingly contradictory information such as that and determine why the first product is outselling the second product and similar quandaries.

Your statistical analysis is worthless when you spend the majority of your time with your head up your own ass losing arguments.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr C on October 01, 2021, 11:26:22 pm
By that "logic" your response to the 30% of black Americans hesitant to take the vaccine, would be to tell them that they were lied to when they voted for Donald Trump and do a bunch of stuff about Trump and Repubicans?

You don't think people were lied to when they voted for Donald Trump?  "do a bunch of stuff"?  You don't make any sense. 

Quote

Do you have any idea how dim-witted that would be?


I have an idea ...

Quote

You couldn't even grasp the concept/paradox being a 10/10 to 33% of the population being a better product than a product that was 7/10 to 100% of the population.


Sure I could.  You couldn't grasp the idea that it doesn't apply to a binary decision.  How about you send me a few links to this phenomenon?

Quote

One of the very purposes of statistical analysis is to look at seemingly contradictory information such as that and determine why the first product is outselling the second product and similar quandaries.

Says the guy that thinks Indians and vegetarianism is a corollary to African-American distrust of US government .

I looked up strawman in the dictionary today.  It had a picture of you.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: gogators! on October 02, 2021, 04:14:27 am

I looked up strawman in the dictionary today.  It had a picture of you.
But was it a recent picture?
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 02, 2021, 10:24:08 am
You don't think people were lied to when they voted for Donald Trump?  "do a bunch of stuff"?  You don't make any sense. 
But that's not the reason African-Americans are not getting vaccinated, therefore "Trump" and "REPUBLICANS" does not sufficiently explain the phenomenon.

Quote
Sure I could.  You couldn't grasp the idea that it doesn't apply to a binary decision.  How about you send me a few links to this phenomenon?
1) I never said it was a binary decision, in fact I specifically mentioned it in reference to primaries and elections where there at a minimum is enough of a presence by 3rd party candidates/other nominees to possibly have an effect.
2) At no point did you ever raise the binary issue and state that it only applied then. You made the assumption it was a binary choice. And even when there is a binary choice the 33% product might still outperform the other depending on intensity and indifference.

Quote
Says the guy that thinks Indians and vegetarianism is a corollary to African-American distrust of US government .
You didn't get the point did you?

It was to use as an example of flawed statistical reasoning and analysis. That you were drawing the same conclusions, using the same logic as in the example I showed. It was not to say they are the same thing. You could have replaced Indians with "Vulcans" or "Hfgghfdhgerwerians".
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 02, 2021, 10:31:13 am
Live look at Savant and Mr. C talking to African-Americans who won't take the vax:

Mr. C & Savant: "This is all because of Trump's lies. You've been duped."
Audience: "We didn't vote for Trump."
Mr. C & Savant: "Of course you did, why else are you anti-vax?"
Audience: "We DIDN'T vote for Trump!"
Mr. C & Savant: "This is also because of the Republican Party. They betrayed you and they're manipulating you.
Audience: "We aren't Republicans"
Mr. C & Savant: "Stop voting for Republicans. They hate you and are making this pandemic worse."
Audience: "We aren't Republicans!"
Mr. C & Savant: "Yes, you are, because those who are anti-vax are almost all Republicans"
Audience: "WE AREN'T REPUBLICANS!!!!!"
Mr. C & Savant: "This is because of FOXNews. FOXNews brainwashed you."
Audience: "We don't watch FOXNews."
Mr. C & Savant: "FOXNews is just Republican propaganda. Stop voting Republican and watching FOXNews"
Audience: "WE DON'T WATCH FOXNEWS AND WE DON'T VOTE REPUBLICAN!!!!!"

Seriously, everything looks like a nail to you two hammers. You're so wrapped up in this Trump-Republican view of the world that when something comes along that is somewhat connected to it, but not in the same predictable way, your brain basically short-circuits and can't adapt to a different paradigm.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Savant on October 02, 2021, 11:03:14 am
Paradigms? With your frequently altering viewpoints you’re basically “Marty in the Multi-Verse”. But also more Green Lantern than one of those top-tier Marvel characters.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr C on October 02, 2021, 11:59:52 am
But that's not the reason African-Americans are not getting vaccinated, therefore "Trump" and "REPUBLICANS" does not sufficiently explain the phenomenon.
1) I never said it was a binary decision, in fact I specifically mentioned it in reference to primaries and elections where there at a minimum is enough of a presence by 3rd party candidates/other nominees to possibly have an effect.
2) At no point did you ever raise the binary issue and state that it only applied then.

https://www.waygook.org/index.php?topic=115682.msg796575#msg796575

"Incidentally, while consumer markets may not usually be two choice situations, US elections almost always are. And that's what we were talking about, isn't it?"
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr C on October 03, 2021, 06:22:41 pm
Live look at Savant and Mr. C talking to African-Americans who won't take the vax:

Mr. C & Savant: "This is all because of Trump's lies. You've been duped."
Audience: "We didn't vote for Trump."
Mr. C & Savant: "Of course you did, why else are you anti-vax?"
Audience: "We DIDN'T vote for Trump!"
Mr. C & Savant: "This is also because of the Republican Party. They betrayed you and they're manipulating you.
Audience: "We aren't Republicans"
Mr. C & Savant: "Stop voting for Republicans. They hate you and are making this pandemic worse."
Audience: "We aren't Republicans!"
Mr. C & Savant: "Yes, you are, because those who are anti-vax are almost all Republicans"
Audience: "WE AREN'T REPUBLICANS!!!!!"
Mr. C & Savant: "This is because of FOXNews. FOXNews brainwashed you."
Audience: "We don't watch FOXNews."
Mr. C & Savant: "FOXNews is just Republican propaganda. Stop voting Republican and watching FOXNews"
Audience: "WE DON'T WATCH FOXNEWS AND WE DON'T VOTE REPUBLICAN!!!!!"

Seriously, everything looks like a nail to you two hammers. You're so wrapped up in this Trump-Republican view of the world that when something comes along that is somewhat connected to it, but not in the same predictable way, your brain basically short-circuits and can't adapt to a different paradigm.

Did you even read one word--one word--of the article I posted for your benefit?  It says EXACTLY the OPPOSITE of what you "think" we're saying here!

Which is that even Trump-voting A-As' vaccine hesitancy is NOT really related to Trumpism as it is to other longstanding reasons A-As in general (like the ones in the "audience") don't trust and/or can't access government agencies and healthcare. 

The article, which you didn't read, further eviscerates your point that Trump-voting A-As  somehow prove there is something other than Trumpism fueling the vaccine antipathy of Trump voters, who are by far the least-vaccinated political demographic.

The fact that you would go on this completely false screed is just another example of how you degrade discourse on this website with false analogies, mischaracterization and strawmen, and outright lies.  You should stop.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 04, 2021, 10:56:18 am
Did you even read one word--one word--of the article I posted for your benefit?  It says EXACTLY the OPPOSITE of what you "think" we're saying here!
Of course I didn't read your article. It was behind a paywall. Next time post the article's contents if you are citing something behind a paywall. Anyways, I did do some archive digging and the article starts with a false premise: That conservatives are attempting to "blame" black people or get them blamed for not being vaccinated. That's not what is happening. What they are doing is pointing out the hypocrisy an different standards the media and the left show towards different groups based on whether their "feels".

Yes, the Republicans are much more of the unvaccinated population amongst white Americans and account for most of the disparity, but that doesn't apply to black Americans and thus "Trumpism" as an answer for why Americans are not getting vaccinated is insufficient. I also love how historical distrust of institutions is a legitimate reason for African-Americans but not for Republicans. Does that mean if a black person looks at Tuskegee and is hesitant, it's justified, but if a white Republican looks at Tuskegee, it's not justified? How does that work?

The article basically does the same kind of gross oversimplification and partisan hatchet work as the people it claims to oppose.

Quote
Which is that even Trump-voting A-As' vaccine hesitancy is NOT really related to Trumpism as it is to other longstanding reasons A-As in general (like the ones in the "audience") don't trust and/or can't access government agencies and healthcare. 

The article, which you didn't read, further eviscerates your point that Trump-voting A-As  somehow prove there is something other than Trumpism fueling the vaccine antipathy of Trump voters, who are by far the least-vaccinated political demographic
2) Read the above part- You yourself say that AA vaccine hesitancy is NOT related to Trumpism. But the very next sentence you say that my point that something other than Trumpism is fueling vaccine apathy has been eviscerated. Finally, the % of black Americans not being vaccinated is substantially higher than the number that voted for Trump. You have to account for why they aren't getting vaccinated and it isn't because of Trumpism.

There are MULTIPLE REASONS for vaccine hesitancy amongst Americans. Simply blaming Trumpism does not get to the point.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr C on October 04, 2021, 11:40:13 am
Of course I didn't read your article. It was behind a paywall.
Then why did you respond directly under the link: "Again, this doesn't contradict my point"?  How on earth could you possibly know that if you didn't read the article????

And I am sorry, but it wasn't behind a paywall here--and no, I don't subscribe.

Quote
Next time post the article's contents if you are citing something behind a paywall. Anyways, I did do some archive digging and the article starts with a false premise: That conservatives are attempting to "blame" black people or get them blamed for not being vaccinated. That's not what is happening. What they are doing is pointing out the hypocrisy an different standards the media and the left show towards different groups based on whether their "feels".

Yes, the Republicans are much more of the unvaccinated population amongst white Americans and account for most of the disparity, but that doesn't apply to black Americans and thus "Trumpism" as an answer for why Americans are not getting vaccinated is insufficient. I also love how historical distrust of institutions is a legitimate reason for African-Americans but not for Republicans. Does that mean if a black person looks at Tuskegee and is hesitant, it's justified, but if a white Republican looks at Tuskegee, it's not justified? How does that work?

To anyone being honest about the American government's history of treatment of blacks, that question contains its own answer.

Quote
The article basically does the same kind of gross oversimplification and partisan hatchet work as the people it claims to oppose.

How on earth can you have that opinion?  You didn't even read the article!

Quote
2) Read the above part- You yourself say that AA vaccine hesitancy is NOT related to Trumpism. But the very next sentence you say that my point that something other than Trumpism is fueling vaccine apathy has been eviscerated. Finally, the % of black Americans not being vaccinated is substantially higher than the number that voted for Trump. You have to account for why they aren't getting vaccinated and it isn't because of Trumpism.

There are MULTIPLE REASONS for vaccine hesitancy amongst Americans. Simply blaming Trumpism does not get to the point.

No one has said there is only one reason for vaccine hesitancy.  No one.  But we are saying it's not just a coincidence the the rates are so high among Trumpists.  And that pointing to AAs as if that proves it is, is just incorrect.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 04, 2021, 12:40:14 pm
Then why did you respond directly under the link: "Again, this doesn't contradict my point"?  How on earth could you possibly know that if you didn't read the article????
I got what I could be constantly refreshing and sure enough, when I read it with an archiver, it was as lackluster as it looked. But after you made a stink about it, I did go back and look for the full article archived in case I missed something.

Quote
And I am sorry, but it wasn't behind a paywall here--and no, I don't subscribe.
Maybe it was one of your "Free Articles this Month"? WaPo is subscription-based.

Quote
To anyone being honest about the American government's history of treatment of blacks, that question contains its own answer.
Yes, black people are suspicious due to the American government's history of treatment of blacks. Are you suggesting white Republicans can't look at that history and have the same suspicion? I know some people have this cartoonish version of American society where all Republicans hate black people and are Nazis, but in the real world that isn't the case.

Quote
How on earth can you have that opinion?  You didn't even read the article!
Because it starts with a false premise. It also doesn't show the same attempt at insight and understanding towards Republicans as it does towards African-Americans.

Quote
No one has said there is only one reason for vaccine hesitancy.  No one.  But we are saying it's not just a coincidence the the rates are so high among Trumpists.  And that pointing to AAs as if that proves it is, is just incorrect.

This started with people cheering the fact that unvaccinated people were dying and people saying they were all Trump voters and also saying the unvaccinated should be denied medical care.

Now, just to show that you are consistent, are you also going to cheer the deaths of unvaccinated black people and say they should be denied medical care? Even if they are at lower rates of not being vaccinated than Trump voters, they are still at a sizable rate overall.

Or is this the latest in liberal double-standards and hypocrisy on issues where minority voters come into play-

"Uneducated voters make dumb decisions"
"Uh, you know the black community has one of the lowest rates of education and votes Democrat, are you saying...???

"Religious voters are stupid and they shouldn't encourage people to vote"
"Well black and Latino voters are disproportionately religious. And one of the biggest Dem 'Get out the Vote' drives is 'Souls to the Polls' in which African-American churchgoers are encouraged to go out and vote"

Look either be fair or just abandon any claim to objectivity and go purely subjective. Just say "I'm not going to go hard on black people for not being vaccinated because I don't want to look like a racist, I understand why they are hesitant, I hold them to different standards than white people (and yes, you can hold groups to different standards without being patronizing) plus I just hate Trump voters. Really, most of it is I hate Trump voters."

That's all you have to say. But stop with this attempt to have your cake and eat it too.

The fact is in most cases, this stuff happens because the person says something impulsively like "Religious voters are dumb" or "Unvaccinated shouldn't get care" without thinking it through, and when called on it, rather than admit their F up and that they said something d*ckish, they try and double down and weave all this convoluted BS.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr C on October 04, 2021, 12:55:00 pm

This started with people cheering the fact that unvaccinated people were dying and people saying they were all Trump voters and also saying the unvaccinated should be denied medical care.

Now, just to show that you are consistent, are you also going to cheer the deaths of unvaccinated black people and say they should be denied medical care? Even if they are at lower rates of not being vaccinated than Trump voters, they are still at a sizable rate overall.

Or is this the latest in liberal double-standards and hypocrisy on issues where minority voters come into play-

Who is cheering?  I have a couple of family members who refuse to get vaccinated, I'm not cheering!

We are trying to understand why, and find ways to convince them--not just my relatives, anti-vaxxers in general. 

You have to look at the data to understand the whys of it, and it's certainly a useful data point that pro-Trump Republicans are less vaccinated than non-Trump Republicans and every other political demographic.  Guess where these family members sit.

For someone who is decrying stereotyping, you seem to have very little trouble stereotyping "liberals". 

As far as not getting care, many US hospitals have had to institute a triage system because of unvaccinated people with Covid.  It's not as simple as you seem to think.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 04, 2021, 01:04:48 pm
As far as not getting care, many US hospitals have had to institute a triage system because of unvaccinated people with Covid.  It's not as simple as you seem to think.
It's quite simple- You don't look at personal history. You treat the problem based on severity and chance of death and what you can do to help.

Same as battlefield medics who would treat wounded on both sides.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: JNM on October 04, 2021, 01:26:33 pm

Same as battlefield medics who would treat wounded on both sides.

Theoretically.

Most people, even medics, are not as altruistic as that.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 04, 2021, 01:34:55 pm
We are trying to understand why, and find ways to convince them--not just my relatives, anti-vaxxers in general. 
1) Start by listening
2) Accept that the people on "your side" haven't always done things perfectly and made mistakes as well (not saying equivalent, but that there are reasons)
3) Look at why some Dems were skeptical about the vaccines while Trump was President
4) Maybe consider that a soft-sell and leading by example might be ways to do it (and many leaders are doing this or trying "Carrot and Stick" methods- which I applaud as well as some of the sterner measures. We have to see what works and different governors can try different things)

I do think one of the worst things that can be done is the attempt to limit discussion on popular platforms. That is just about the worst thing you can do. It confirms every worst fear of those who are skeptical. It would be like banning discussion of 9/11 conspiracy theories. I agree they are full of rubbish, just like anti-Vax ones, but to limit them would just exacerbate the problem.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 04, 2021, 01:36:08 pm
Theoretically.

Most people, even medics, are not as altruistic as that.
True, but as a matter of policy we do try to say that medical treatment of wounded/captured should not be dependent on what uniform they wear and that being an enemy soldier does not permit doctors to refuse to help them.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr C on October 04, 2021, 01:40:38 pm
True, but as a matter of policy we do try to say that medical treatment of wounded/captured should not be dependent on what uniform they wear and that being an enemy soldier does not permit doctors to refuse to help them.

But we're not talking about emergency room care here, we're talking about who gets first crack at limited ICU or respiratory care.  And medical history is routinely taken.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: gogators! on October 05, 2021, 08:51:58 am
"This started with people cheering the fact that unvaccinated people were dying"

One person. Not people.

Yet you ask others to be "fair and objective." That's a real life example of a double standard, not one of your full of hot air hypotheticals.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 05, 2021, 12:40:19 pm
But we're not talking about emergency room care here, we're talking about who gets first crack at limited ICU or respiratory care.  And medical history is routinely taken.
Would you deny first crack at an ICU to someone who got HIV through drug use? How about care to someone critically injured snowboarding or base jumping? How about to someone overweight who had money but decided to eat at Wendy's everyday? Smokers? People who drink? Elderly with dementia?

If with all the others you're weighing pros and cons and feel squeamish about it, but with unvaccinated, you're like "Sure, let em die", then you've let political theater warp your morality.

On the other hand if you look at all or at least most of those and are like "Sure, F em." then at least you're consistent and you have a case to make.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 05, 2021, 12:44:02 pm
"This started with people cheering the fact that unvaccinated people were dying"

One person. Not people.

Two. SPQR and Savant.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Savant on October 05, 2021, 01:21:07 pm
Two. SPQR and Savant.

And I still don’t care if unvaccinated people continue to die for refusing the vaccine for stupid reasons.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 05, 2021, 01:36:30 pm
And I still don’t care if unvaccinated people continue to die for refusing the vaccine for stupid reasons.
Do you think it should be the policy of hospitals to refuse treatment to the unvaccinated?
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Savant on October 05, 2021, 01:41:53 pm
Do you think it should be the policy of hospitals to refuse treatment to the unvaccinated?

To those who have refused to get vaccinated at the expense of the vaccinated when resources are scarce? Yes!
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 05, 2021, 01:54:45 pm
To those who have refused to get vaccinated at the expense of the vaccinated when resources are scarce? Yes!
Do you apply this standard to HIV patients who got infected through IV-drug use or unprotected sex? To overweight people? To smokers? To people who engage in dangerous or risky sports?
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Kyndo on October 05, 2021, 01:59:13 pm
To those who have refused to get vaccinated at the expense of the vaccinated when resources are scarce? Yes!
Basically triage: allocating resources to ensure that the maximum number of people can be saved given a limited amount of resources.
There's been a lot of discussion about the ethics of denying the unvaccinated medical treatment, and for the most parts there is agreement that no, it isn't ethical.
However, it's also been pointed out that vaccination status is a contributing factor to survivability, and should be included in the calculations of who gets a ventilator and who does not.
Of course, the argument now is how much weight it should be given.

Here's a short and sweet article written by an ethicist on this exact topic. Apologies for the source!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/08/23/refuse-covid-treatment-unvaccinated-triage/

Do you apply this standard to HIV patients who got infected through IV-drug use or unprotected sex? To overweight people? To smokers? To people who engage in dangerous or risky sports?
The problem with these example is that these problems rarely occur in numbers that would strain a society's ability to treat them, so triage is never an issue.
I suppose that wasn't true back when AIDS epidemic occurred and effective anti-virals were thin on the ground, but the stigma of the disease was such that *all* of the infected were considered in an equally negative light.
   In most of these examples, one can see a sort of payment triage in that medical insurance costs differ depending on an individual's habits and circumstances. So in a way, yes, it sort of does apply.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 05, 2021, 02:03:19 pm
However, it's also been pointed out that vaccination status is a contributing factor to survivability,
So is HIV and hardcore drug use. Drug addicts have higher rates of violent crime. If someone is ODing, should they get denied treatment? How about those with HIV who can spread it?
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Kyndo on October 05, 2021, 02:05:11 pm
So is HIV and hardcore drug use. Drug addicts have higher rates of violent crime. If someone is ODing, should they get denied treatment? How about those with HIV who can spread it?
No, because there is no scarcity of treatment. Triage isn't necessary.

However, if you're talking about covid patients with HIV and hardcore drug issues, then yes, those would probably be factored into triage calculations: they would both greatly decrease patient survivability, and would also increase risk to medical staff.


Also, I love trolley problems!
... although... I'm not certain if  the majority of psychologists would agree with some of my answers...  :sad:
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 05, 2021, 02:10:04 pm
No, because there is no scarcity of treatment. Triage isn't necessary.
Triage isn't necessary for drug ODs being taken to the ER? How about criminals who are shot during the course of criminal activity? Do they get denied treatment?

Quote
Also, I love trolley problems!

I do too. Clearly the problem is how do we kill both the unvaccinated, as well as the obese, drug addicts, AIDS patients and motorcyclists who didn't wear a helmet when they show up at the ICU? I propose that upon examination of their records, a mechanical arm holding a pillow is immediately activated and administered over the no longer considered a person's face, thereby resulting in cessation of life function within 120 seconds, freeing the unit up for someone else. We already have robot arms. And we already have pillows, so this shouldn't be too hard.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Savant on October 05, 2021, 02:10:16 pm
Do you apply this standard to HIV patients who got infected through IV-drug use or unprotected sex? To overweight people? To smokers? To people who engage in dangerous or risky sports?

I should apply the standard to those afflicted with Strawmanitis.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 05, 2021, 02:12:00 pm
I should apply the standard to those afflicted with Strawmanitis.
It's not a strawman. It's about a consistent set of ethical standards when administering triage. You cannot have those standards be subjective and down to YOUR individual personal preferences based on YOUR view. You have to come up with objective standards.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: JNM on October 05, 2021, 02:14:54 pm
Triage isn't necessary for drug ODs being taken to the ER? How about criminals who are shot during the course of criminal activity? Do they get denied treatment?

They do.
Some insurance policies exclude injury sustained while committing a crime.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Savant on October 05, 2021, 02:20:03 pm
Do you apply this standard to HIV patients who got infected through IV-drug use or unprotected sex? To overweight people? To smokers? To people who engage in dangerous or risky sports?

This is about personal responsibility regarding Covid. Pretty sure that a person with HIV can still get vaccinated. That is what you’re asking, right?
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Kyndo on October 05, 2021, 02:25:21 pm
Triage isn't necessary for drug ODs being taken to the ER? How about criminals who are shot during the course of criminal activity? Do they get denied treatment?
Not if the hospital has the capacity to treat them. Otherwise, I imagine they do. 
:undecided:
This precedent is, in my opinion, why ultimately, doctors will be able to use vax status as part of their triage equations.

I do too. Clearly the problem is how do we kill both the unvaccinated, as well as the obese, drug addicts, AIDS patients and motorcyclists who didn't wear a helmet when they show up at the ICU? I propose that upon examination of their records, a mechanical arm holding a pillow is immediately activated and administered over the no longer considered a person's face, thereby resulting in cessation of life function within 120 seconds, freeing the unit up for someone else. We already have robot arms. And we already have pillows, so this shouldn't be too hard.
Nonono. You just don't allocate the resources necessary to extend their lives. Because those same resources could save multiple other lives.
No need to go waste resources hurrying the process up. That would be counter-productive, not to mention unethical.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 05, 2021, 03:55:44 pm
They do.
Some insurance policies exclude injury sustained while committing a crime.
But the hospital will still treat them and stabilize. It's only after that they pay.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: gogators! on October 06, 2021, 05:30:45 am
"Oct. 4, 2021 -- Health officials in Alaska activated the state’s emergency crisis protocols on Saturday to allow 20 medical facilities to ration care if needed.

Alaska has reported the nation’s highest COVID-19 cases per 100,000 residents in recent days, pushing the health care system to a breaking point. Three hospitals already had emergency protocols for rationing care, including Providence Alaska Medical Center in Anchorage, which is the state’s largest hospital.

“Today’s action recognizes that Alaska has an interconnected and interdependent health care system, requiring the need for activation of the state’s decision-making framework,” the state health department wrote in a statement.

Several factors led to the announcement, according to The Associated Press, including scarce medical resources, limited staff, limited bed availability and difficulty transferring patients between facilities. Fairbanks Memorial Hospital, for instance, activated its own crisis protocols on Friday due to shortages in beds, staff and monoclonal antibody treatments.

This is the first time during the pandemic that Alaska’s hospitals have been forced to make decisions about who should receive treatment and who should wait.

A team of doctors at Providence Alaska Medical Center, for instance, has been using a formula to score patients on their potential of dying and consulting with an ethicist to make decisions. In a recent case, two patients with critical COVID-19 needed to use a specialized dialysis machine. The team selected the person who was more likely to live to start dialysis. The other patient died."

It doesn't note if vaccination status was part of the decision. More than likely both were unvaccinated.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: gogators! on October 06, 2021, 05:32:02 am
Two. SPQR and Savant.
Two persons, then. Still not your people generalization.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: gogators! on October 06, 2021, 07:08:37 am
RE insurance and what it does and doesn't cover":

"If your partner or spouse is unvaccinated, it may cost you more in insurance fees — at least in Louisiana.

The state’s largest nonprofit health care provider, Ochsner Health, recently said that it was adding an extra charge — about $200 a month — for unvaccinated spouses and domestic partners who are covered by the company’s insurance plan.

The provider’s decision to charge extra was similar to a policy implemented by Delta Air Lines, which said that it would charge any employee who remains unvaccinated an additional $200 per month to remain on the company’s health care plan.

These employers are among the first to embrace an idea that has widely been discussed but is mired in legal uncertainty: charging unvaccinated employees more for health insurance.

Legally speaking, insurance surcharges are more complicated than simple employment mandates, which are widely considered legally sound. Federal law bars employers and insurers from charging higher prices to people with pre-existing health conditions. But the vaccine surcharges are being structured as employer “wellness” incentive programs, which are permitted under the Affordable Care Act.

Warner Thomas, the president of Ochsner Health, said medical and religious exemptions to the policy would be allowed, adding that it was not a mandate.

“The reality is the cost of treating Covid-19, particularly for patients requiring intensive inpatient care, is expensive,” he said."
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: SPQR on October 06, 2021, 07:21:30 am

And I still don’t care if unvaccinated people continue to die for refusing the vaccine for stupid reasons.


I agree. Anti-vaxxers are like dangerous, gibbering monkeys that
put others in society at risk. That is why Facebook, Twitter et al. have
now permanently removed their deluded rantings. Also why would you
let these psychopaths make the American healthcare system (The envy
of the world.) any more expensive? I think it was Darwin that postulated
a suitable future for characters like those.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 06, 2021, 01:13:39 pm
I agree. Anti-vaxxers are like dangerous, gibbering monkeys that
put others in society at risk. That is why Facebook, Twitter et al. have
now permanently removed their deluded rantings.
If you think they did that because they "put society at risk", I have a bridge to sell you.

They did it to avoid regulation and liability on a hot button issue. One look at all the other conspiracy and quackery crap out there on those sites and it's clear that they don't care about stopping misinformation.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Chester Jim on October 24, 2021, 10:30:30 am
My coworker died from that bs and they didn't even list it as a vaccine death.
Vaers shut down after 14k deaths
Myocarditis has a 66% fatality rate over 5 years.
And google search myocarditis news and yes the "market" for myocarditis is looking good.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Kyndo on October 25, 2021, 10:00:06 am
My coworker died from that bs and they didn't even list it as a vaccine death.
I'm sorry for your loss.  :sad:

Vaers shut down after 14k deaths
VAERS is required to report any deaths after inoculating, regardless if the vaccination was at fault or not. In the USA, about 9,000 deaths have been reported: even if they were all linked to the vaccination (and they demonstrably were not), that would be 9,000 out of 390 million doses administered, which is a 0.0021% fatality rate.
Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-coronavirus-usa-idUSL1N2R00KP

Myocarditis has a 66% fatality rate over 5 years.
"According to the surgeon in this youtube video, myocartiditis has a mortality rate
of 66% in a 5 year span (https://comp.os.linux.advocacy.narkive.com/pn0ztjFA/myocarditis-5-year-66-mortality-rate)."
Without getting into the issue of quoting secondhand sources from unqualified "experts" from youtube videos, there are some pretty basic problems with this statement.
Most importantly, Myocarditis is usually quite mild.
The quote lists the stats for acute myocarditis, which is only a subset of general myocarditis.
My brother, unfortunately has the latter, a relatively common symptom of a relatively uncommon genetic disorder.  :sad:

And google search myocarditis news and yes the "market" for myocarditis is looking good.
Yes, you're probably right.
Pharmaceutical companies have been profiting from human frailties for as long as they've existed. It's their *reason* for existing.
It's unpleasant, but it's how the capitalist society is set up, unfortunately.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Chester Jim on October 25, 2021, 10:37:15 am
Vaers is and has always been undercounted by a lot.   It has been made tedious and erased, maybe it still does, the data  that doctors fill out without being able to save it.  Many doctors are invested in vaccines, and think they are doing something positive by stopping vaccine hesitancy.

They are required to by law, yes, but they don't.  Probably only 5%  or so of deaths are reported.

And now athletes are collapsing on the field a few in one game.
The vaccines are a disaster.
 
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/06/sen-ron-johnson-vaers-system-vaccine-deaths-youtube-censorship-suppressing-information-american-people-paying-price-video/

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/06/sen-ron-johnson-vaers-system-vaccine-deaths-youtube-censorship-suppressing-information-american-people-paying-price-video/

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/07/vaers-website-currently-offline-number-covid-vaccine-deaths-reaches-11405-listed-website/


And Vaers is at 17k now.    https://rumble.com/vo3j0f-the-latest-vaers-numbers-have-been-published-10-22-2021.html

Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr C on October 25, 2021, 11:03:52 am
Vaers is and has always been undercounted by a lot.   It has been made tedious and erased, maybe it still does, the data  that doctors fill out without being able to save it.  Many doctors are invested in vaccines, and think they are doing something positive by stopping vaccine hesitancy.

They are required to by law, yes, but they don't.  Probably only 5%  or so of deaths are reported.

And now athletes are collapsing on the field a few in one game.
The vaccines are a disaster.
 
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/06/sen-ron-johnson-vaers-system-vaccine-deaths-youtube-censorship-suppressing-information-american-people-paying-price-video/

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/06/sen-ron-johnson-vaers-system-vaccine-deaths-youtube-censorship-suppressing-information-american-people-paying-price-video/

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/07/vaers-website-currently-offline-number-covid-vaccine-deaths-reaches-11405-listed-website/


And Vaers is at 17k now.    https://rumble.com/vo3j0f-the-latest-vaers-numbers-have-been-published-10-22-2021.html



You can't link to Ron Johnson on vaccines and still pretend you want a serious discussion.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Kyndo on October 25, 2021, 12:05:07 pm
Vaers is and has always been undercounted by a lot.   It has been made tedious and erased, maybe it still does, the data  that doctors fill out without being able to save it.  Many doctors are invested in vaccines, and think they are doing something positive by stopping vaccine hesitancy.

They are required to by law, yes, but they don't.  Probably only 5%  or so of deaths are reported.
.....
The point you're avoiding is that those deaths are not necessarily vaccine related, and therefor have no meaning.

And I would love to see a credible source on that pretty incredible 5% stat.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Chester Jim on October 25, 2021, 12:41:01 pm
The point you're avoiding is that those deaths are not necessarily vaccine related, and therefor have no meaning.

And I would love to see a credible source on that pretty incredible 5% stat.
I'm not avoiding any points.  The same way that you know an antibiotic works after you take it: your sore throat or whatever goes away.   You take a vaccine and then you become ill or injured.
Every day you have young healthy people taking this vaccine and getting injured or killed. It's even on cbs.   Now they want to make young kids take the vaccine who don't need it.  Monsters.

here's a good video on the highwire about Vaers. https://thehighwire.com/videos/episode-233-the-vaers-scandal/

But the Mainstream corporate media cartel will not readily have this information.  I simply don't trust CNN special sponsored by Pfizer on vaccines.  They have all paid billions because they are disgusting greedy filth you don't care about peoples' health

 
This looks to me like it is from the Vaers website. https://rumble.com/vo3j0f-the-latest-vaers-numbers-have-been-published-10-22-2021.html

I was being generous with the 5% but it's probably more like 1 %. Electronic support for Public Health Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System.  I'm sure the top ten google searches will give you plenty to say that it is not a face, but there is a problem with the Vaers system.

Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Aristocrat on October 25, 2021, 01:52:43 pm
I'm not avoiding any points.  The same way that you know an antibiotic works after you take it: your sore throat or whatever goes away.   

A sore throat throat or runny nose is not an illness, it is a symptom of a viral infection and it is a normal completely natural
response that your body does.

Antibiotics don't kill viruses, they kill bacteria.

Did you pass high school biology?
You take a vaccine and then you become ill or injured.

The vaccine may trigger your bodies' immune system response (runny nose, muscle pain, sore throat), but again, this is completely normal.

The job of the vaccine is to DRAMATICALLY minimise the odds of you dying or getting seriously ill should you get the virus and it has accomplished that, no doubt about it.

69.5% of Koreans have been vaccinated, that's 36 million people.
Deaths related to (not caused by) the vaccine... 2.

Cases of COVID in Korea 352 000
Deaths 2766

You did pass high school maths, right?
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Kyndo on October 25, 2021, 01:59:41 pm
I'm not avoiding any points.  The same way that you know an antibiotic works after you take it: your sore throat or whatever goes away.   You take a vaccine and then you become ill or injured.
Every day you have young healthy people taking this vaccine and getting injured or killed. It's even on cbs.   Now they want to make young kids take the vaccine who don't need it.  Monsters.

here's a good video on the highwire about Vaers. https://thehighwire.com/videos/episode-233-the-vaers-scandal/
The Highwire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_Bigtree) is a you tube channel created and promoted by a fellow who earns over 120k per year promoting anti-vax conspiracies by various organizations. Critics of his films have thoroughly discredited the pseudo-science involved in their key claims.
Using it as a source is like linking research by Exxon about why humans have nothing to do with current climate change. The bias is impossible to overlook.

This looks to me like it is from the Vaers website. https://rumble.com/vo3j0f-the-latest-vaers-numbers-have-been-published-10-22-2021.html
I was being generous with the 5% but it's probably more like 1 %. Electronic support for Public Health Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System.  I'm sure the top ten google searches will give you plenty to say that it is not a face, but there is a problem with the Vaers system.

Again, while the numbers may be real (and the source appears to be from somebody's Rumble channel (https://rumble.com/vo3j0f-the-latest-vaers-numbers-have-been-published-10-22-2021.html), a platform that caters to, among others, those whose contents have been branded as harmful conspiracy theories and banned from Youtube and FB, so I'm somewhat suspicious of its veracity), there's no causative or even correlative link between them and vaccine injury.

Those numbers are literally just records of the causes of death of people who happened to have taken the vaccine in the recent past.  :undecided:
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 25, 2021, 02:33:46 pm
The Highwire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_Bigtree) is a you tube channel created and promoted by a fellow who earns over 120k per year promoting anti-vax conspiracies by various organizations. Critics of his films have thoroughly discredited the pseudo-science involved in their key claims.
Using it as a source is like linking research by Exxon about why humans have nothing to do with current climate change. The bias is impossible to overlook.
Ehh...as has been noted, linking to reputable outlets with climate predictions past wouldn't exactly be spreading certain truth either.

Exxon should be able to make their defense. I'd take it with a massive grain of salt, but they should be able to mount a claim. Every source is going to have some degree of bias.

That being said, I'm not sure this even qualifies as a report put out by Exxon. This is more like, unfounded mis-sourced ramblings.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Chester Jim on October 25, 2021, 05:07:27 pm
The Highwire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_Bigtree) is a you tube channel created and promoted by a fellow who earns over 120k per year promoting anti-vax conspiracies by various organizations. Critics of his films have thoroughly discredited the pseudo-science involved in their key claims.
Using it as a source is like linking research by Exxon about why humans have nothing to do with current climate change. The bias is impossible to overlook.

Again, while the numbers may be real (and the source appears to be from somebody's Rumble channel (https://rumble.com/vo3j0f-the-latest-vaers-numbers-have-been-published-10-22-2021.html), a platform that caters to, among others, those whose contents have been branded as harmful conspiracy theories and banned from Youtube and FB, so I'm somewhat suspicious of its veracity), there's no causative or even correlative link between them and vaccine injury.

Those numbers are literally just records of the causes of death of people who happened to have taken the vaccine in the recent past.  :undecided:

Del big tree is legit.  He had a career producing the doctors a total shit show, and whatever else he wanted.  Incredibly talented guy, but felt a need to tell the truth.

Can’t wait for Robert Kennedy jrs new book next month “the real Anthony Fauci”.  That guy got a lot of crap today for funding experiments where beagles were put to sleep and their head were eaten by sand flies.   Was number one on Twitter until a bunch of Fs took it down.

You did see the recent program and criticism on social media of cnn doing special on vaccines which was promoted by Pfizer.

Our media is a corporate media I can’t explain how important the corporate part is.  They can’t do news which hurts their friends and they all make lots of money together.

Rumble was created as an alternative to YouTube because they were censoring people who they didn’t agree with politically.   Hunter Biden laptop turned out to be real and everything else.  Why would anyone believe anything the mainstream media has to say at all.  They are incredibly and provably leftist.  And the left still loses proving that they have no good ideas and are full of crap.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Adel on October 25, 2021, 05:46:32 pm
Del big tree is legit.  He had a career producing the doctors a total shit show, and whatever else he wanted.  Incredibly talented guy, but felt a need to tell the truth.

Can’t wait for Robert Kennedy jrs new book next month “the real Anthony Fauci”.  That guy got a lot of crap today for funding experiments where beagles were put to sleep and their head were eaten by sand flies.   Was number one on Twitter until a bunch of Fs took it down.

You did see the recent program and criticism on social media of cnn doing special on vaccines which was promoted by Pfizer.

Our media is a corporate media I can’t explain how important the corporate part is.  They can’t do news which hurts their friends and they all make lots of money together.

Rumble was created as an alternative to YouTube because they were censoring people who they didn’t agree with politically.   Hunter Biden laptop turned out to be real and everything else.  Why would anyone believe anything the mainstream media has to say at all.  They are incredibly and provably leftist.  And the left still loses proving that they have no good ideas and are full of crap.

Hey Jimbo, that last paragraph was quite a word salad. I reckon, you'll end up getting banned just to give moderators like Kyndo some respite eventually.  :laugh:
But seriously though, I'm just wondering how you define leftist these days. I guess, it would include immunologist and virologist and any one intersted in containing and spreading disease. Am I right?
Just how whack is your ideology these days? Does your definition of leftist include people who accept the existence of Covid 19 ?
Help us out with us all out with extent of your latest beliefs.
You've agreed with this
Quote
Looking in to what is happening in Australia and I can now confidently say that World War 3 is upon us. We are in the midst of a global, psychological warfare. Under the guise of Covid-19, governments worldwide have declared war on their people for full totalitarian control.
Is there a cohesive theory on this that you subscribe to or is it just a random collection of conspiracy theories?
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: gogators! on October 25, 2021, 09:03:10 pm
How much disinformation does one need to post/link to before a moderator steps in?

Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Chester Jim on October 26, 2021, 02:27:02 am
How much disinformation does one need to post/link to before a moderator steps in?
I see you still have no arguments and rely on tying your opponents hand behind their backs.

Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: gogators! on October 26, 2021, 05:41:11 am

Arguing with a liar is a fool's errand.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 26, 2021, 01:22:37 pm
Hunter Biden laptop turned out to be real and everything else.  Why would anyone believe anything the mainstream media has to say at all. 
He does kind of have a point about this. The mainstream media all rushed to declare the story "Russian disinformation".

Here are the "experts" telling us that it is disinformation- https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/19/hunter-biden-story-russian-disinfo-430276
And later on we find out it's not. https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/10/12/hunter-biden-corruption-515583

Yet again the "experts" were wrong about things and gullible saps accepted the media explanation.  Yes, there was propaganda on this story- by American mainstream media outlets and various experts and officials, not by Russia But of course many dimwits on the left believed the "RUSSIA!!!!!!!!!" nonsense because..... Why exactly?

Just a reminder that a few of our resident gullible saps were INSISTENT this was all Russian nonsense and the story was nonsense.
https://www.waygook.org/index.php?topic=117567.2480

Seriously why do you guys (MayorHaggar, Mr. C, etc.) keep giving the MSM the benefit of the doubt after they've effed up so many times? Like, after this is it any surprise 1/3rd of the American public on the right completely distrusts the MSM and is prone to believe in conspiracy theories? And that's before we get to the Sandernistas on the left who also think a lot of the same things...
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Chester Jim on October 26, 2021, 02:27:12 pm
Arguing with a liar is a fool's errand.

Where's the lie?
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Savant on October 26, 2021, 04:29:55 pm
He does kind of have a point about this. The mainstream media all rushed to declare the story "Russian disinformation".

Here are the "experts" telling us that it is disinformation- https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/19/hunter-biden-story-russian-disinfo-430276
And later on we find out it's not. https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/10/12/hunter-biden-corruption-515583

Yet again the "experts" were wrong about things and gullible saps accepted the media explanation.  Yes, there was propaganda on this story- by American mainstream media outlets and various experts and officials, not by Russia But of course many dimwits on the left believed the "RUSSIA!!!!!!!!!" nonsense because..... Why exactly?

Just a reminder that a few of our resident gullible saps were INSISTENT this was all Russian nonsense and the story was nonsense.
https://www.waygook.org/index.php?topic=117567.2480

Seriously why do you guys (MayorHaggar, Mr. C, etc.) keep giving the MSM the benefit of the doubt after they've effed up so many times? Like, after this is it any surprise 1/3rd of the American public on the right completely distrusts the MSM and is prone to believe in conspiracy theories? And that's before we get to the Sandernistas on the left who also think a lot of the same things...

No, a lot on the right distrust the media because Trump hammered "Fake News" into them at every opportunity and also quite a lot of them are gullible and idiots.

MSM > any right-wing "news" outlet.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 26, 2021, 04:48:36 pm
No, a lot on the right distrust the media because Trump hammered "Fake News" into them at every opportunity and also quite a lot of them are gullible and idiots.

MSM > any right-wing "news" outlet.
Can you explain the MSM's conduct on the Hunter Biden story then?

The MSM may be better, but that doesn't mean they still aren't a bunch of ratings-chasing scumbags who constantly misrepresent things in the pieces they publish.

"Not as shitty as them" isn't really much of a defense.

I mean, if you listened to the MSM you'd believe that 1) Candace Owens called for an invasion of Australia 2) That Hunter Biden's laptop was just Russian disinformation 3) That Trump called Nazis "fine people" 4) That Trump told people to drink bleach 5) That Joe Rogan took horse de-wormer 6) The Covington Kids Nonsense 7) That Trump Jr. was offered advance access to the Wikileaks dump 8) That 17 intel agencies agreed Russia was behind the attacks and on and on and on

All of these are not true, but many of them are widely-held beliefs by those who follow the MSM.

Granted on the right you could make a worse list of 8 batcrap crazy beliefs fueled by their media, but that doesn't make it right for the MSM and their followers to do that kind of nonsense as well.

Get a clue- Trust no one in the media. Always look at stories from multiple angles and multiple sources. Take seriously the issues the other side raises with the story, be they on the left or on the right.

Get out of your bubble.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Savant on October 26, 2021, 05:16:50 pm
Can you explain the MSM's conduct on the Hunter Biden story then?

The MSM may be better, but that doesn't mean they still aren't a bunch of ratings-chasing scumbags who constantly misrepresent things in the pieces they publish.

"Not as shitty as them" isn't really much of a defense.

I mean, if you listened to the MSM you'd believe that 1) Candace Owens called for an invasion of Australia 2) That Hunter Biden's laptop was just Russian disinformation 3) That Trump called Nazis "fine people" 4) That Trump told people to drink bleach 5) That Joe Rogan took horse de-wormer 6) The Covington Kids Nonsense 7) That Trump Jr. was offered advance access to the Wikileaks dump 8) That 17 intel agencies agreed Russia was behind the attacks and on and on and on

All of these are not true, but many of them are widely-held beliefs by those who follow the MSM.

Granted on the right you could make a worse list of 8 batcrap crazy beliefs fueled by their media, but that doesn't make it right for the MSM and their followers to do that kind of nonsense as well.

Get a clue- Trust no one in the media. Always look at stories from multiple angles and multiple sources. Take seriously the issues the other side raises with the story, be they on the left or on the right.

Get out of your bubble.

This sounds like your equivalent of "There's good news on both sides" which is a lot of BS.

Who on the right gives factual, unbiased news information that is actually respected and referenced by right-wingers?
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Adel on October 26, 2021, 05:29:41 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/wZaW9kL.gif)

Can you explain the MSM's conduct on the Hunter Biden story then?

The MSM may be better, but that doesn't mean they still aren't a bunch of ratings-chasing scumbags who constantly misrepresent things in the pieces they publish.

"Not as shitty as them" isn't really much of a defense.

I mean, if you listened to the MSM you'd believe that 1) Candace Owens called for an invasion of Australia 2) That Hunter Biden's laptop was just Russian disinformation 3) That Trump called Nazis "fine people" 4) That Trump told people to drink bleach 5) That Joe Rogan took horse de-wormer 6) The Covington Kids Nonsense 7) That Trump Jr. was offered advance access to the Wikileaks dump 8) That 17 intel agencies agreed Russia was behind the attacks and on and on and on

All of these are not true, but many of them are widely-held beliefs by those who follow the MSM.

Granted on the right you could make a worse list of 8 batcrap crazy beliefs fueled by their media, but that doesn't make it right for the MSM and their followers to do that kind of nonsense as well.

Get a clue- Trust no one in the media. Always look at stories from multiple angles and multiple sources. Take seriously the issues the other side raises with the story, be they on the left or on the right.

Get out of your bubble.

There's a poster inspired by the mainstreaming of crazy with Jimbo's return.  :laugh:
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr C on October 26, 2021, 05:35:11 pm
He does kind of have a point about this. The mainstream media all rushed to declare the story "Russian disinformation".

Here are the "experts" telling us that it is disinformation- https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/19/hunter-biden-story-russian-disinfo-430276
And later on we find out it's not. https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/10/12/hunter-biden-corruption-515583

Yet again the "experts" were wrong about things and gullible saps accepted the media explanation.  Yes, there was propaganda on this story- by American mainstream media outlets and various experts and officials, not by Russia But of course many dimwits on the left believed the "RUSSIA!!!!!!!!!" nonsense because..... Why exactly?

Well, hang on a sec.  Did you happen to examine the links to parts of the story on that politico "investigation"?  Aside from linking to politico (natch) the vast majority are to MSM reporting on the story.  I don't think that really helps your point that they got it wrong, when their reporting is what is used. 

I don't understand, either, why you insist that I only read left-leaning/MSM sources.  You have no basis for that, because it isn't true.  However, long years of experience have shown me that CNN, WaPo and NYT are more likely to have the facts than Breitbart, NYPost and the WSJ editorial page.  Is that concept too difficult or far-fetched for you?
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Savant on October 26, 2021, 06:10:37 pm
Well, hang on a sec.  Did you happen to examine the links to parts of the story on that politico "investigation"?  Aside from linking to politico (natch) the vast majority are to MSM reporting on the story.  I don't think that really helps your point that they got it wrong, when their reporting is what is used. 

I don't understand, either, why you insist that I only read left-leaning/MSM sources.  You have no basis for that, because it isn't true.  However, long years of experience have shown me that CNN, WaPo and NYT are more likely to have the facts than Breitbart, NYPost and the WSJ editorial page.  Is that concept too difficult or far-fetched for you?

Marty is still trying to push the Hunter Biden story which the Trumpers really hoped would be devastating to Daddy Biden's campaign. Turns out there wasn't much to it apart from the disgraced exploits of a screwed-up, drug-addicted man. Just like the left didn't really push the coke-fueled rants of Don Jr.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: gogators! on October 26, 2021, 06:58:30 pm
He does kind of have a point about this. The mainstream media all rushed to declare the story "Russian disinformation".

Here are the "experts" telling us that it is disinformation- https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/19/hunter-biden-story-russian-disinfo-430276
And later on we find out it's not. https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/10/12/hunter-biden-corruption-515583

Yet again the "experts" were wrong about things and gullible saps accepted the media explanation.  Yes, there was propaganda on this story- by American mainstream media outlets and various experts and officials, not by Russia But of course many dimwits on the left believed the "RUSSIA!!!!!!!!!" nonsense because..... Why exactly?

Just a reminder that a few of our resident gullible saps were INSISTENT this was all Russian nonsense and the story was nonsense.
https://www.waygook.org/index.php?topic=117567.2480

Seriously why do you guys (MayorHaggar, Mr. C, etc.) keep giving the MSM the benefit of the doubt after they've effed up so many times? Like, after this is it any surprise 1/3rd of the American public on the right completely distrusts the MSM and is prone to believe in conspiracy theories? And that's before we get to the Sandernistas on the left who also think a lot of the same things...
You slam the media yet your post uses links from the same publication to support your argument.

Joe has a Hunter problem, no doubt. But as for russia:

"Russia’s premier intelligence agency has launched another campaign to pierce thousands of U.S. government, corporate and think-tank computer networks, Microsoft officials and cybersecurity experts warned Sunday, only months after President Joe Biden imposed sanctions on Moscow in response to a series of sophisticated spy operations it had conducted around the world.

The new effort is “very large, and it is ongoing,” said Tom Burt, one of Microsoft’s top security officers. Government officials confirmed that the operation, apparently aimed at acquiring data stored in the cloud, seemed to come out of the SVR, the Russian intelligence agency that was the first to enter the Democratic National Committee’s networks during the 2016 election."

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/nation-world/story/2021-10-25/russia-challenges-biden-again-with-broad-cybersurveillance-operation
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Chester Jim on October 27, 2021, 01:50:23 am
Marty is still trying to push the Hunter Biden story which the Trumpers really hoped would be devastating to Daddy Biden's campaign. Turns out there wasn't much to it apart from the disgraced exploits of a screwed-up, drug-addicted man. Just like the left didn't really push the coke-fueled rants of Don Jr.
Not much to it?  He was taking money from Ukraine and China and giving a percentage to his dad.  Any other century and he would be shot for treason.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Kyndo on October 27, 2021, 07:46:55 am
Not much to it?  He was taking money from Ukraine and China and giving a percentage to his dad.  Any other century and he would be shot for treason.
He was giving a percentage to his dad? Really?
Seems pretty unlikely that his dad would accept it, being a career politician and all.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 27, 2021, 10:44:33 am
Marty is still trying to push the Hunter Biden story which the Trumpers really hoped would be devastating to Daddy Biden's campaign. Turns out there wasn't much to it apart from the disgraced exploits of a screwed-up, drug-addicted man. Just like the left didn't really push the coke-fueled rants of Don Jr.
And I said as much when it happened- That Hunter probably tried to trade off the family name and Joe Biden beyond wanting to get his idiot addict son some help, didn't have anything to do with it. I even said that Joe should just talk to the voters about Hunter's problems and be candid about it, because that's when he's at his best.

Some others on the other hand, all said this was a fake story and it was Russian disinformation.

Well turns you were wrong.

WRONG- This Hunter Biden story is fake (MSM, The left, the lefties on here)
WRONG- This Hunter Biden story will sink Joe Biden (RW Media, The right, the righties on here)
RIGHT- This story is potentially real and likely not Russian propaganda, but there's probably not much there, at least as far as Joe Biden is concerned. At MOST you'll find out he did something to get his idiot son out of serious trouble, like any dad would.

If you had a brain and didn't just lap up the MSM or parrot liberal talking points all the time, you would have been able to see this. But you can't because you operate on pure reflex. That's what dimwits do. Stop being a dimwit and just agreeing or disagreeing on reflex.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 27, 2021, 10:54:24 am
Well, hang on a sec.  Did you happen to examine the links to parts of the story on that politico "investigation"?  Aside from linking to politico (natch) the vast majority are to MSM reporting on the story.  I don't think that really helps your point that they got it wrong, when their reporting is what is used. 
The MSM were all calling the Hunter Biden story "Russian Disinformation" at the start and refusing to give it credence. Now they're changing their tune.

Quote
I don't understand, either, why you insist that I only read left-leaning/MSM sources.  You have no basis for that, because it isn't true.  However, long years of experience have shown me that CNN, WaPo and NYT are more likely to have the facts than Breitbart, NYPost and the WSJ editorial page.  Is that concept too difficult or far-fetched for you?
Because if you did, you should be able to suss out when the MSM is full of it and when the conservative media is full of it, but you just go in one direction.

CNN being more likely than FOXNews to be accurate isn't some great accomplishment nor a reason to trust them. It just means relative to FOXNews they have a somewhat increased chance of being more accurate.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr C on October 27, 2021, 12:01:26 pm
The MSM were all calling the Hunter Biden story "Russian Disinformation" at the start and refusing to give it credence. Now they're changing their tune.
Because if you did, you should be able to suss out when the MSM is full of it and when the conservative media is full of it, but you just go in one direction.

CNN being more likely than FOXNews to be accurate isn't some great accomplishment nor a reason to trust them. It just means relative to FOXNews they have a somewhat increased chance of being more accurate.

If this way of looking at things leads to "thinking" the way you do, no thanks!
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 27, 2021, 12:23:32 pm
If this way of looking at things leads to "thinking" the way you do, no thanks!
You were the one who was wrong about the Hunter Biden story.

It wasn't made-up. It wasn't disinformation. It wasn't a right-wing conspiracy theory. The MSM outlets should have ran the story and the fact they didn't looks rather suspect now.

You went hard that this story was a bunch of baloney. You were flat-out wrong. If you read the non-denial denials of the Biden camp at the time, you should have realized that yes, it probably was his laptop and he probably has some dodgy stuff on it (hence the propaganda effort by various experts and officials to label it Russian misinformation) but it also probably wasn't that damaging to Joe, hence the lack of full-on panic by the Dem apparatus.

But nope, you went with it being a bunch of baloney. Why? Because it's just team team team team team.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 27, 2021, 12:39:45 pm
Who on the right gives factual, unbiased news information that is actually respected and referenced by right-wingers?
None of them do.

That's the point- NO ONE gives unbiased news. What you have to do is follow media outlets from a variety of sources. See where they agree- if they all state something as a fact, odds are pretty good that it's a fact. Generally stick to things that are objective statements of fact. Ignore adjectives and other words which add opinion or slanting to the story. You literally have to train yourself to read without absorbing anything that is opinion (and you'll still make mistakes- so acknowledge that as well).

If you see something written about the other side in a negative light, switch the words and terms around so that it's about your side. If your reaction completely changes, then you are being influenced by bias. Likewise if you are excusing something on your side, switch it around with people and terms from the other side and see if you would be as lenient. Finally, learning how to read government documents, legalese and how to read between the lines of what politicians say is a skill. It's why some people on here think the Mueller report actually proves collusion, whereas anyone with a brain when it comes to knowing government language and legalese can tell that it actually doesn't make any connection at all. It 'sounds' colludy, but it's really thin on actual provable facts and the figures it gives are rather laughable. Same with the 'Pandemic Playbook'. Anyone reading it knows it's just a bunch of generic crap that's about as useful as the teaching guide at your crapwon. However lots of morons believed that it was something of substance. Why? Either they hadn't read it or they can't really comprehend it.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr C on October 27, 2021, 01:37:43 pm
You were the one who was wrong about the Hunter Biden story.

It wasn't made-up. It wasn't disinformation. It wasn't a right-wing conspiracy theory. The MSM outlets should have ran the story and the fact they didn't looks rather suspect now.

You went hard that this story was a bunch of baloney. You were flat-out wrong. If you read the non-denial denials of the Biden camp at the time, you should have realized that yes, it probably was his laptop and he probably has some dodgy stuff on it (hence the propaganda effort by various experts and officials to label it Russian misinformation) but it also probably wasn't that damaging to Joe, hence the lack of full-on panic by the Dem apparatus.

But nope, you went with it being a bunch of baloney. Why? Because it's just team team team team team.

Dude, you went from explaining it as a perfectly normal behavior of a busy person to justifying your opinion of it as being because Hunter Biden was a crazed, drug-addled lunatic along with his assistant.  You think you were behaving skeptically or had you totally bought into the right-wing narrative?  No, I'll stay on this side, thanks.

What, by the way, has turned up in the laptop related to Biden's illegal dealings with Burisma?
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Chester Jim on October 27, 2021, 02:05:00 pm
He was giving a percentage to his dad? Really?
Seems pretty unlikely that his dad would accept it, being a career politician and all.

Yes his emails say 10% to the big guy the big guy is Joe Biden.
I don't get it.  Are you saying that it didn't happen, or saying that it is okay because that is what politicians do? 
If they were taking money from the Chinese then the Chinese have dirt on them, so they are compromised. This is not fake like Russia.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Savant on October 27, 2021, 04:41:01 pm
Yes his emails say 10% to the big guy the big guy is Joe Biden.
I don't get it.  Are you saying that it didn't happen, or saying that it is okay because that is what politicians do? 
If they were taking money from the Chinese then the Chinese have dirt on them, so they are compromised. This is not fake like Russia.

Damn! Get this information to the US District Attorney. Let's indict Joe Biden now based on the sole information of "the big guy". Thanks for the laughs as always!
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: gogators! on October 27, 2021, 11:06:25 pm
I don't think supporting/defending trump at every turn makes one a skeptic who can sniff out BS like a trained bloodhound.

The big problem with Hunter Biden would appear to be his artwork, which is selling for prices that don't seem to match the level of artistry. Who is buying this art?  IMO he should halt all sales until his dad leaves office.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Chester Jim on October 28, 2021, 02:42:37 am
Damn! Get this information to the US District Attorney. Let's indict Joe Biden now based on the sole information of "the big guy". Thanks for the laughs as always!

So you are telling me that the big guy who has used repeated before is not his dad?  And yes it would warrant an investigation.  But that is not all, his business partner is talking and is willing to testify.   He got billions of dollars to invest days after landing on a plane in China with his dad as Vice President.  He is also pictured in hotel with a known honey pot ccp Chinese actress. 
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: gogators! on October 28, 2021, 04:48:15 am
So you are telling me that the big guy who has used repeated before is not his dad?  And yes it would warrant an investigation.  But that is not all, his business partner is talking and is willing to testify.   He got billions of dollars to invest days after landing on a plane in China with his dad as Vice President.  He is also pictured in hotel with a known honey pot ccp Chinese actress. 
But did he hit it?

You sound awfully jealous. I'd say green with envy, but I know how opposed to anything green right wing reactionaries such as yourself are.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Kyndo on October 28, 2021, 07:14:38 am
Yes his emails say 10% to the big guy the big guy is Joe Biden.
I don't get it.  Are you saying that it didn't happen, or saying that it is okay because that is what politicians do? 
If they were taking money from the Chinese then the Chinese have dirt on them, so they are compromised. This is not fake like Russia.
I'm asking for clarification, and a credible link to a source that says Mr.Biden received money from his son's idiocy.
You post a lot of interesting stuff, but often fail to provide sources. Sources that often prove to be difficult to track down.

People would take you more seriously if you did.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 28, 2021, 10:46:58 am
I have no reason to be skeptical that Hunter Biden in his drug-fueled scammery might have said some crap that linked his dad to what he was doing.

I have every reason to be skeptical that Joe Biden actually was involved.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 28, 2021, 10:54:12 am
Dude, you went from explaining it as a perfectly normal behavior of a busy person to justifying your opinion of it as being because Hunter Biden was a crazed, drug-addled lunatic along with his assistant.  You think you were behaving skeptically or had you totally bought into the right-wing narrative?  No, I'll stay on this side, thanks.

What, by the way, has turned up in the laptop related to Biden's illegal dealings with Burisma?
Hunter Biden's problems with addiction have been well documented. Asdicts doing erratic things is normal.

What I wrote was one possibility. I said "It could have been this that happened". It's not my fault you interpreted that as a statement of fact rather than speculation.

I have no idea what the laptop will hold. I previously predicted nothing on it would link Joe Biden. I'm sticking by that prediction. AT WORST Biden would have done something to rescue his knucklehead son, the same way any loving dad would if their stupid kid was in serious trouble. ESPECIALLY a dad who has already tragically lost one son. That's just being human.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr C on October 28, 2021, 12:23:33 pm
Hunter Biden's problems with addiction have been well documented. Asdicts doing erratic things is normal.

What I wrote was one possibility. I said "It could have been this that happened". It's not my fault you interpreted that as a statement of fact rather than speculation.


But as each new element emerged, you changed your story from perfectly sensible businessman behavior, to well, he's a drunk, addicted person (and so is his assistant).  You made up a bunch of stuff about, i don't remember what-all, changes of clothes, juggling three damaged laptops as he sprinted through the terminal, etc.

The point is that you spun an increasingly fantastic tale--why, because you were being unbiased and skeptical?  Gimme a break.  Because you were completely bought into the right-wing narrative.  Period.

you're a hypocrite, plain  and simple.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 28, 2021, 01:30:56 pm
But as each new element emerged, you changed your story from perfectly sensible businessman behavior, to well, he's a drunk, addicted person (and so is his assistant).  You made up a bunch of stuff about, i don't remember what-all, changes of clothes, juggling three damaged laptops as he sprinted through the terminal, etc.

The point is that you spun an increasingly fantastic tale--why, because you were being unbiased and skeptical?  Gimme a break.  Because you were completely bought into the right-wing narrative.  Period.

you're a hypocrite, plain  and simple.

Well, he would have carried three damaged laptops through two airports, which has got to be a major inconvenience. 

Anyway, this just didn't happen.  Fox News turned it down, because it was too BS even for them.

Well, he would have carried three damaged laptops through two airports, which has got to be a major inconvenience.  .

Not really. He's rich so he was probably rolling in 1st class, may have had an aide as well. That and he probably traveled light considering he'd probably stay over at the folks' in Delaware. This isn't like you or I traveling with our massive amounts of luggage. He also probably has expedited check-in and can skip most of the TSA crap.

Heck, he can just buy clothes when he lands. It's not like he's hurting for cash.

He owns a mansion in Hollywood Hills. He's not traveling like the rest of us.
Is any of this wild speculation?
Is it wild to suggest someone rich would be traveling 1st class? That they might have an aide? That they would travel light? That HUNTER BIDEN would have expedited TSA clearance? That he can just buy new clothes when he lands because he has a lot of money?

You're saying this is "wild speculation"???

Of course, you didn't read carefully and so your reaction was this-

You made up every single bit of that. 

If your supposition is correct, he sent this "aide' his doppleganger, it turns out, DRUNK, to a repair shop and both he and the aide forgot it ever happened and made no effort to get the laptops back ...

Read more carefully next time.


But the fact is, you insisted that this story wasn't true. Turns out it is. Why because you don't know how to read between the lines. You thought it was ridiculous that someone would leave a laptop behind or forget about it. But of course anyone who knows anything about the behavior of either A) The Rich or B) Addicts and especially C) Rich addicts knows that this isn't implausible at all. Anyone who knows anything about such people would instantly find such a story plausible.

"Addict forgets and loses something" OMG what a shocker!
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 28, 2021, 01:38:23 pm
Mr. C, remember when we argued about people connected to Trump who plead guilty to lying to investigators, that must mean the Russian collusion thing must be true. And I tried to point out that this didn't prove the conspiracy and that everyone lies to the police? you insisted this was preposterous despite the fact that every cop who has ever lived will tell you this is true (just like dentists) and that just because someone is lying, it doesn't make them guilty. Your job as a cop is to figure out who is lying about what. (Yes there are exceptions and of course in blatantly obvious stuff people are usually trying to be honest- tho often with faulty memory)

Mr. C, there is a clear pattern here- You just don't get criminal human behavior. This is both a good thing and a bad thing- It means you are a good person because you don't think like a criminal. But it also means you are incredibly bad at understanding anything relating to crime because you don't think like a criminal. You don't understand how such people think and operate. Your mind is very sequential and literal in its logic- "If A is true, then B is true then C is true." Which is great for a lot of things. However it really fails when you make false assumptions of logic, i.e. "If someone is lying to the police during an investigation into a criminal conspiracy, then they must be part of a criminal conspiracy and such conspiracy must have happened." It doesn't cross your mind that they could be lying for entirely different reasons or that people just lie to the police in general. You don't get how addicts behave.

To you the idea of being so blitzed out of your mind that you drop off a laptop with sensitive information and forget about it is preposterous. To anyone who knows anything about substance abuse, that's a normal type of story at an AA/NA meeting- "I was so effed up, I did this stupid thing I don't even remember and it came back to bite me in the ass 6 months later."

Seriously, anyone who has attended just ONE AA meeting in their life could look at the Hunter Biden story and be like, "Yeah, I can see it."

Both this and Russia collusion you were spectacularly wrong on. Why? Because you just took everything literally and accepted what was being fed to you and quite frankly, I think you lack the capacity at present to really analyze such stuff and understand why it may or may not be true because it relates to criminal conduct.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 28, 2021, 01:50:01 pm
How you can tell the Hunter Biden story had some element of truth-
1) The Biden campaign never issued a flat-out denial. They always used roundabout explanations and defenses.
2) The near-instant activation of the Russian disinformation and the term used- "This has all the hallmarks of..." Note it wasn't "Yes, we have specific information and direct evidence that this was deliberately manufactured by the Russians". Also, how could they know this within like, 24 hours of the story breaking?
3) Nothing in it was too far-fetched. (That he had dropped off the laptop, not the other stuff connecting Joe Biden to it all)

How you can tell the Russia stuff is nonsense
1) For this to work, Russia would have had to have had a crystal ball in 2015 that Trump was going to get the Republican nomination and not say, flame out in 2 weeks with some sort of scandal
2) Could Trump be manipulated? Sure. Could he be a reliable intelligence asset? No.
3) Trump cannot simultaneously have masterminded all of this while allegedly being senile
4) The fact that "Who controls Trump?" was a question with a revolving door of answers- Bannon, Ivanka, Kushner, Putin, Nazis, Trump's Massive Ego, His Followers, Don Jr. and every other person can't all be controlling Trump.
5) The fact that NATO nor Korea nor Japan ever really behaved as though any of this were true
6) The fact that these propaganda techniques that were allegedly so powerful seemingly can't manage to get people to switch from Absolut to Stoli.

Like the whole thing is so obviously preposterous. The only way someone could believe it's true is if they wanted it to be true. That and if they lack the ability to observe things such as above or to notice dogs that aren't barking.

And that ties into what I wrote above- Part of understanding criminal behavior is the ability to see the dog that isn't barking.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: tylerthegloob on October 28, 2021, 02:25:24 pm
You just don't get criminal human behavior. This is both a good thing and a bad thing- It means you are a good person because you don't think like a criminal.
unlike tino here. my man IS a criminal
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: MayorHaggar on October 28, 2021, 05:26:41 pm
How you can tell the Hunter Biden story had some element of truth-

(https://c.tenor.com/NrnuQ_LcNowAAAAM/iron-man-rolls-eyes.gif)
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: gogators! on October 28, 2021, 08:16:11 pm
That's some real  Barney Fife police work.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 29, 2021, 12:14:26 pm
(https://c.tenor.com/NrnuQ_LcNowAAAAM/iron-man-rolls-eyes.gif)
You thought the whole Hunter Biden thing was complete bunk too along with the Russia crap. Turns out you were wrong.

Why can't you admit your error?
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr C on October 29, 2021, 02:42:22 pm
(https://c.tenor.com/NrnuQ_LcNowAAAAM/iron-man-rolls-eyes.gif)
You thought the whole Hunter Biden thing was complete bunk too along with the Russia crap. Turns out you were wrong.

Why can't you admit your error?

Why can't you admit to falling for the lies of the right?  Like, for example when AG Bill Barr said the Mueller Report exonerated the president.  It didn't you know, and Mueller took the unusual step of calling him for it.

You insist the whole Russia thing is crap based on the lies of a lying liar, Bill Barr. 

A dozen examples of obstruction of justice does not an innocent man make. 

And for the hundredth time, Putin was backing anybody that wasn't Hillary Clinton, whom he despises.  Remember why?

Pepperidge Farm remembers:   https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-22/vladimir-putin-and-hillary-clinton-hatred-explained/9783076
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Chester Jim on October 29, 2021, 04:00:28 pm
Wow the mods on here keep erasing everything I wrote.
I have a question about Hunter Biden
I saw a video of him.
You can look it up.
It shows a woman who was giving him a foot job.
The woman appears to be his niece from the name he calls her and her phone.
This video exists.  I saw it. Why censor that information?.  The media did it before the election.   
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Savant on October 29, 2021, 05:32:59 pm
Wow the mods on here keep erasing everything I wrote.


Cause it's absolute nonsense.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: hippo on October 29, 2021, 06:16:49 pm
no Biden foot videos on Waygook.org to prevent the media and people in the US from getting to naked truth
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: hippo on October 29, 2021, 06:36:28 pm
You thought the whole Hunter Biden thing was complete bunk too along with the Russia crap. Turns out you were wrong.

Why can't you admit your error?

The Hunter Biden stuff seems to have been true.

Russia doesn’t have any deep commercial or strategic  ties with the US like China, Saudi Arabia, or Israel.

They are an easier scapegoat.  Things get exaggerated easily.  Even before the Soviet Union, you see negative commentary in US writings.  The USSR amplified that.  It has come down since the USSR, but there aren’t as many interlocking ties talked about.  They collaborate some on military matters to avoid accidental attacks and the like but there’s too much separation.

When do you see Chinese, Saudi, or Israeli villains in US movies?  How about Russian villains?
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: hippo on October 29, 2021, 06:49:04 pm
Bottom 10

42. Arkansas
Number of people fully vaccinated: 1,349,836
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 44.73

43. Louisiana
Number of people fully vaccinated: 2,069,667
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 44.52

44. Tennessee
Number of people fully vaccinated: 3,037,807
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 44.48

45. Georgia
Number of people fully vaccinated: 4,679,672
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 44.08

46. North Dakota
Number of people fully vaccinated: 330,399
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 43.36

47. Mississippi
Number of people fully vaccinated: 1,265,761
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 42.53

48. Alabama
Number of people fully vaccinated: 2,038,644
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 41.58

49. Idaho
Number of people fully vaccinated: 730,992
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 40.9

50. Wyoming
Number of people fully vaccinated: 236,319
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 40.83

51. West Virginia
Number of people fully vaccinated: 720,036
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 40.18

Top 10

1. Vermont
Number of people fully vaccinated: 430,763
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 69.03

2. Connecticut
Number of people fully vaccinated: 2,424,726
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 68.01

3. Maine
Number of people fully vaccinated: 911,032
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 67.77

4. Massachusetts
Number of people fully vaccinated: 4,643,212
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 67.37

5. Rhode Island
Number of people fully vaccinated: 711,015
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 67.12

6. New Jersey
Number of people fully vaccinated: 5,649,685
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 63.61

7. Maryland
Number of people fully vaccinated: 3,834,301
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 63.42

8. New York
Number of people fully vaccinated: 12,203,762
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 62.73

9. Washington
Number of people fully vaccinated: 4,764,888
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 62.57

10. New Mexico
Number of people fully vaccinated: 1,306,182
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 62.29

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-ranked-by-percentage-of-population-vaccinated-march-15.html



The US has a small percentage of the world’s population and coronavirus doesn’t give a s$:& what your ideology is.  Most of the continent of Africa doesn’t even have vaccine access.  Too much fear of starting a precedent of getting rid of patents that could lead to future cases?  Is Covid-19 serious?  If yes, get rid of the patents?  No? Continue the vaccine nationalism and blaming parts of this or that country and see what new variants emerge.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: L I on October 29, 2021, 07:07:48 pm
Governments can force companies to share their Covid vaccine recipes? Not gonna happen. And if it did that’d take away profit incentive to develop future pandemic fighting vaccines and they’d work on something like male pattern baldness instead. Over half the world’s population has already had at least one dose. The number is rising each day. You’re a little late with the bad idea, the outcome over which you have no agency. The best way you can protect yourself and others is by strengthening your immune system. Better health = less virus mutation. How many people will become healthier though? Not many in all likelihood. Can’t be bothered even if it meant saving lives.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: L I on October 29, 2021, 07:14:45 pm
  Is Covid-19 serious?

How many people do you know who got Covid, folks? I know a sh*tload. You?

Joe Rogan was afraid of Covid until people he knew who caught it told him it was no big deal. Then he too caught it in an unvaccinated state and was fine. That colored his perception. And his listeners’.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: hippo on October 29, 2021, 07:22:18 pm
Look up Jonas Salk, dude.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: gogators! on October 29, 2021, 08:35:57 pm
Governments can force companies to share their Covid vaccine recipes? Not gonna happen. And if it did that’d take away profit incentive to develop future pandemic fighting vaccines and they’d work on something like male pattern baldness instead. Over half the world’s population has already had at least one dose. The number is rising each day. You’re a little late with the bad idea, the outcome over which you have no agency. The best way you can protect yourself and others is by strengthening your immune system. Better health = less virus mutation. How many people will become healthier though? Not many in all likelihood. Can’t be bothered even if it meant saving lives.
You need to look at what's happening with Merck's anti-Covid pill regarding licensing.

"Merck is granting a royalty-free license for drugmakers worldwide to produce molnupiravir, the potential antiviral, in a move aimed at helping millions of people in poorer countries get access to the potentially life-saving drug, a United Nations-backed public health organization said on Wednesday."

And because you need links: https://www.pri.org/stories/2021-10-28/new-merck-pill-could-help-treat-covid-19-symptoms-people-without-access-vaccines
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: L I on October 30, 2021, 12:28:47 am
Hasn’t been approved yet. They’re hoping to get approved. “Hi. Please approve us. In the future we’ll allow low income countries to make a generic version.” Could be PR. Could be because they’re nice people. Could be both.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Chester Jim on October 30, 2021, 01:10:43 am
Cause it's absolute nonsense.

I haven’t  written anything untrue.
It’s not nonsense. 
Hunter Biden stuff was reported and is available, just not by the mainstream which protects him. 
You know that his laptop is true right?  That has been admitted right?
Or are you still waiting for something?
So go search out his laptop contents and see for yourself. 
You guys find out months later because you pay attention to an oligopoly of trash corporate news who is now pushing for vaccines and is sponsored by drug companies.  I remember when the left didn’t worship corporations. 
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: hippo on October 30, 2021, 01:27:35 am
What’s so important about feet?  I am a Tarantino fan, but I never understood why people are attracted to feet.

The laptop story seems legit.  The lack of a clear denial among other things made it reasonably clear it was Hunter Biden’s laptop.

But why are you so focused on feet now?  And what site did you go to for this source?  Is it legal in Korea?
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Chester Jim on October 30, 2021, 01:32:39 am
What’s so important about feet?  I am a Tarantino fan, but I never understood why people are attracted to feet.

The laptop story seems legit.  The lack of a clear denial.

But why are you so focused on feet now?
It’s more because it was his niece and the media didn’t report it.   
They also didn’t bring up Willy Brown and Kamala Harris.  The media is leftist.   Can you imagine if it were republican?  Everyone would have known.  The game is rigged.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: gogators! on October 30, 2021, 03:37:24 am
Hasn’t been approved yet. They’re hoping to get approved. “Hi. Please approve us. In the future we’ll allow low income countries to make a generic version.” Could be PR. Could be because they’re nice people. Could be both.
It's obviously PR. But then that's pretty much your SOP: stating the obvious.

Also it's fake news to suggest that the drug's approval will be biased because of how Merck intends to license it. I'd hate to think you're a LIar.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: gogators! on October 30, 2021, 03:39:52 am

 Is it legal in Korea?
Good question. Can it even be posted on Waygook legally?
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Chester Jim on November 05, 2021, 01:51:06 am
Hockey player collapses and dies.
People are asking if it was vaccine related.

Al lot of athletes are collapsing .

https://summit.news/2021/11/04/24-year-old-hockey-player-dies-after-suffering-cardiac-arrest-during-game/
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Chester Jim on November 05, 2021, 01:54:07 am
Disturbing Pfizer ad is telling kids the vaccine will give them superpowers. 
Sick

https://twitter.com/magmag77711777/status/1456263040697917446?s=21
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: gogators! on November 05, 2021, 05:05:29 am
Hockey player collapses and dies.
People are asking if it was vaccine related.

Al lot of athletes are collapsing .

https://summit.news/2021/11/04/24-year-old-hockey-player-dies-after-suffering-cardiac-arrest-during-game/
What people?
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Chester Jim on November 05, 2021, 06:27:19 am
Everyone is asking. Did you read the article.  He is asking.   It would be one hell of a coincidence if it weren’t the vaccine. It’s a huge recurring theme. 
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Kyndo on November 05, 2021, 07:26:56 am
Athletes die. :sad:
It's unfortunate, but not terribly surprising considering the strain they put themselves under.
One can find similar reports of athlete deaths pre-vaccine.
There's no credible claim in the article or elsewhere that the number of athletes who have recently died is statistically different than the norm.
The above linked article is just anti-vaccine sensationalism.

Summit News, by the way, is ranked as a far-right news source, and is ranked as having "extreme bias" and as a "very poor source" by several different media bias checkers.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/summit-news/
From the media checker, it looks like it actively  and deliberately publishes misinformation to push political agendas.
May want to cite other sources.  :lipsrsealed:


 
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: gogators! on November 05, 2021, 08:33:38 am
Everyone is asking. Did you read the article.  He is asking.   It would be one hell of a coincidence if it weren’t the vaccine. It’s a huge recurring theme. 
Everyone? Who are you trying to kid?
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: gogators! on November 05, 2021, 09:09:20 am
https://nz.news.yahoo.com/teen-star-rushed-to-hospital-after-pfizer-vaccine-so-much-pain-214236072.html

Equestrian star Cienna Knowles rushed to the hospital after taking the jab. 


It seems pretty obvious. 
Any comment on the number of deaths and injuries caused by this vaccine versus others. ?

Funny this is the one thing you could hang Trump with, operation warped experiment,  yet you all are on his side.

Trump 2024z
"The Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) told Yahoo News Australia it does not comment on individual cases once immunisation reports have been submitted.

A spokesperson did stress however PVT is not a recognised side effect from the Pfizer jab."
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Savant on November 05, 2021, 09:09:54 am
So even though we know that it causes myocarditis and people are collapsing all over the place these aren’t related?  Ok got it thanks

These anti-vaxxers should be muted from posting such nonsense. Even big social media have stepped up and banned their conspiracy theories.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: gogators! on November 05, 2021, 09:11:47 am
So even though we know that it causes myocarditis and people are collapsing all over the place these aren’t related?  Ok got it thanks
All over the place? Why haven't I come across any of these people? They should be easy to spot if they've just collapsed.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: gogators! on November 05, 2021, 09:12:32 am
These anti-vaxxers should be muted from posting such nonsense. Even big social media have stepped up and banned their conspiracy theories.
Kyndo is trying to turn him from the dark side.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Chester Jim on November 05, 2021, 10:03:08 am
All over the place? Why haven't I come across any of these people? They should be easy to spot if they've just collapsed.
Christian Erickson collapsed. 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1270602

I could go on all day. 
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Chester Jim on November 05, 2021, 10:05:30 am
All over the place? Why haven't I come across any of these people? They should be easy to spot if they've just collapsed.
These anti-vaxxers should be muted from posting such nonsense. Even big social media have stepped up and banned their conspiracy theories.

“Even big social media companies..””

Hahhahahaha
What a joke.
They will be dealt with soon enough. 
Youngkin just got elected saying he would ban mandates . This is not a popular position . 
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Savant on November 05, 2021, 10:24:40 am
“Even big social media companies..””

Hahhahahaha
What a joke.
They will be dealt with soon enough. 
Youngkin just got elected saying he would ban mandates . This is not a popular position . 

Have you been vaccinated yet?
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Kyndo on November 05, 2021, 10:44:34 am
No. It's why he's still paying for his 5G like a sucker.  :wink:
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on November 05, 2021, 11:28:52 am
Christian Erickson collapsed. 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1270602

I could go on all day. 
Fabrice Muamba collapsed because of the vaccine back in 2012!
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Chester Jim on November 05, 2021, 11:31:12 am
That was probably a s$)&t one also.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr C on November 05, 2021, 12:28:09 pm
“Even big social media companies..””

Hahhahahaha
What a joke.
They will be dealt with soon enough. 
Youngkin just got elected saying he would ban mandates . This is not a popular position . 

I think if you look at the polls, you'll find that's not true.  6 in 10 support Biden's vaccine mandates: https://news.gallup.com/poll/354983/majority-supports-biden-covid-vaccine-mandates.aspx

I mean, nothing in the media can be true, though, huh?
For that matter, how do you know Youngkin even won?  Or if he even exists?  The whole damn thing's a lie, Virginia isn't even a state, it's small boulder in the middle of Pennsylvania, I'm sick of all these media lies.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Chester Jim on November 05, 2021, 02:18:13 pm
I think if you look at the polls, you'll find that's not true.  6 in 10 support Biden's vaccine mandates: https://news.gallup.com/poll/354983/majority-supports-biden-covid-vaccine-mandates.aspx

I mean, nothing in the media can be true, though, huh?
For that matter, how do you know Youngkin even won?  Or if he even exists?  The whole damn thing's a lie, Virginia isn't even a state, it's small boulder in the middle of Pennsylvania, I'm sick of all these media lies.


Are you trying to be funny? 
The media is full or horse shit.
What if they actually allowed people to talk about vaccine injuries?  What if the they didn’t ignore coverage of massive protests across the world?  So they may have gaslit a few gullible Americans so that it hovers around %50 support.  But I do doubt even that.  I doubt how they pose the questions.   A lot of the “anti Vaxxers are on the left, old school liberals.   We’ll see how the GOP plays it but it looks like governors are going to run on anti mandates, which is the limited government position.   I seriously can’t even believe how sick and twisted people have become.  Trusting Pfizer ?Not today.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on November 05, 2021, 03:35:18 pm
That was probably a s$)&t one also.
And that Newcastle fan who had a cardiac arrest last month.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/16480643/newcastle-fan-cardiac-arrest-tottenham-family-statement/

Is it
A) The Vaccine
B) Him being an 80-year old who has eaten bangers and pies and drunk pints his whole life

Clearly it's A!
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: gogators! on November 05, 2021, 08:23:47 pm
Christian Erickson collapsed. 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1270602

I could go on all day. 
That article says nothing about the guy having a heart issue being vaccinated.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Chester Jim on November 06, 2021, 02:14:13 am
And that Newcastle fan who had a cardiac arrest last month.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/16480643/newcastle-fan-cardiac-arrest-tottenham-family-statement/

Is it
A) The Vaccine
B) Him being an 80-year old who has eaten bangers and pies and drunk pints his whole life

Clearly it's A!

[/quot
And that Newcastle fan who had a cardiac arrest last month.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/16480643/newcastle-fan-cardiac-arrest-tottenham-family-statement/

Is it
A) The Vaccine
B) Him being an 80-year old who has eaten bangers and pies and drunk pints his whole life

Clearly it's A!


Well then it’s B like most Covid deaths, another cause. 
But these, today, happening all over the place,  are not random and coincidences. 

I can’t even believe what I’m hearing.  A healthy teen who runs marathons dies and it’s”. Oh marathons put a lot of strain on your heart”.
  Crazies.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: gogators! on November 06, 2021, 05:11:45 am
How many would there be if they weren’t so gaslit?   Democrats believe the hospitalization rate is over 50%.    It’s mass stupidity, encouraged by a corporate sleazy media.

Or how many would support mandates if they knew actual death numbers?   
Here Italy changes Covid death numbers from 130k to 4k. 

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/italian-institute-health-drastically-reduces-its-official-covid-death-toll-number

The fatality rate is already very low in the US with the 700k number.  What’s the real rate?
You seem to have missed this:
"We trawled through the various websites of the Italian National Institute of Health (NIH) and National Institute of Statistics to try to corroborate this piece from an Italian newspaper, and it appears to be based on this report (in English) published on or before October 20th. The author of the piece is effectively stating his opinion that only those who died of Covid without comorbidities (2.9%) should be counted as a Covid death, and then extrapolates from there to suggest that the ‘real’ Covid death toll over the period in question was only 3,783. This is all contrary to the report itself and to the NIH’s detailed guidance (in Italian) on how to classify Covid deaths. It thus seems as though the article severely misrepresents the position of the NIH, but a lot seems to have been lost in translation and this is really just an opinion piece where the author is poking fun at the NIH while trying to make a point about the risks of Covid."

You're doing nothing but spreading disinformation, I guess because your guy lost the election.

Funny you should pass over the fact that 700,000 Americans died and that much of that death can be attributed to the disinformation you're peddling.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Lazio on November 06, 2021, 08:23:42 am
How many would there be if they weren’t so gaslit?   Democrats believe the hospitalization rate is over 50%.    It’s mass stupidity, encouraged by a corporate sleazy media.

Or how many would support mandates if they knew actual death numbers?   
Here Italy changes Covid death numbers from 130k to 4k. 

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/italian-institute-health-drastically-reduces-its-official-covid-death-toll-number

The fatality rate is already very low in the US with the 700k number.  What’s the real rate?

''Fact check: Italy did not lower its COVID-19 death toll to 3,783 - USA Today''

https://www.google.co.kr/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/6195621001

You can check excess deaths for 2020 and 2021 to  see how many more died than normally.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: gogators! on November 10, 2021, 09:04:40 pm
This is happening all over the place and in very high numbers. 
I’d love yous to talk to some of these people who have had family members die and or are injured and tell them that they are a necessary sacrifice.  What a joke.   
Athletes around the world dropping like flies.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/nKXYFhX0TzFT/


Worlds too static free diver may not compete again.

https://www.newswars.com/worlds-top-static-freediver-diagnosed-with-myocarditis-after-taking-pfizer-vax-may-end-his-career/


I’d say he knows a thing or two about heart rates, breathing  and his health.
guy can still hold his breath for 8 minutes so I don't think his career is over.

"Among patients in a large Israeli health care system who had received at least one dose of the BNT162b2 mRNA vaccine, the estimated incidence of myocarditis was 2.13 cases per 100,000 persons; the highest incidence was among male patients between the ages of 16 and 29 years. Most cases of myocarditis were mild or moderate in severity."

So "not all over the place" nor "in large numbers."

More disinformation from the jester. It looks like you're immune to at least one thing--the facts.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Lazio on November 11, 2021, 08:23:08 am
This is happening all over the place and in very high numbers. 
I’d love yous to talk to some of these people who have had family members die and or are injured and tell them that they are a necessary sacrifice.  What a joke.   
Athletes around the world dropping like flies.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/nKXYFhX0TzFT/


Worlds too static free diver may not compete again.

https://www.newswars.com/worlds-top-static-freediver-diagnosed-with-myocarditis-after-taking-pfizer-vax-may-end-his-career/


I’d say he knows a thing or two about heart rates, breathing  and his health.


Do you really want to pretend that ''sudden cardiac death of athletes'' was not a thing before covid vaccinations? Hit up google.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Savant on November 12, 2021, 10:14:50 pm
Yes .


Looks like ‘died suddenly’ is trending on Google. 

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=died%20suddenly&geo=US


I wish the idiotic nature of your posts would die suddenly.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Chester Jim on November 12, 2021, 10:18:43 pm
It looks like the media is being sponsored heavily by Pfizer. 

https://www.bitchute.com/video/9OaQKdkxwQtr/

Why would I trust a program on CNN or CBS that is sponsored by Pfizer?   “Brought to you by Pfizer”

Didn’t Pfizer pay the largest criminal fine ever?
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Kyndo on November 15, 2021, 07:40:57 am
Your quoting bitchute? A site renown for hate speech and far-right conspiracy theories? seriously  :laugh:
Anyway, after a quick search on the topic: according to more creditable sources ( including the one in the link below (AP news, "central political bias") , the opposite is true:
media and social media sites have been offered serious money to run smear campaigns against AstraZeneca and Pfizer.
https://apnews.com/article/europe-social-media-coronavirus-pandemic-business-coronavirus-vaccine-c4ce42244be08d7d73a412dd42e36360
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Chester Jim on November 15, 2021, 08:10:02 am
Your quoting bitchute? A site renown for hate speech and far-right conspiracy theories? seriously  :laugh:
Anyway, after a quick search on the topic: according to more creditable sources ( including the one in the link below (AP news, "central political bias") , the opposite is true:
media and social media sites have been offered serious money to run smear campaigns against AstraZeneca and Pfizer.
https://apnews.com/article/europe-social-media-coronavirus-pandemic-business-coronavirus-vaccine-c4ce42244be08d7d73a412dd42e36360

The bolded part is a hint that the rest of your idea will likely be complete drivel.

This is a video simply compiling the Pfizer ads in the news. 
“Nightline brought to you by Pfizer”. Etc..
This is pure data. 

Same video on rumble.  It’s trending.  https://rumble.com/vnylap-brought-to-you-by-pfizer.html

You are arguing that Big Pharma has no influence over the media, and instead it is other groups that are trying to get the media to make ads smearing Pfizer? 
You are really special.
Pfizer is a felon as are Gaxo,J&J and several others.

Bitchute is a site where videos that have been kicked off of YouTube can post their videos.   It’s full of terrible garbage conspiracy theories.  You might not be able to sift through it, but I can.
Bitchute is full of left wing conspiracy garbage as well.   What needs to happen is unbiased sites which allow legal speech and activities to be regulated by a fair and honest algorithm with no interruption from woke gatekeeper police who get their worldview from mainstream corporate media.   
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Kyndo on November 15, 2021, 08:32:07 am
 :laugh:
Supporting bitchute with a reference to Rumble is like supporting Stalin with a quote from Mao.

Also, your "sifter" has a few holes in it. Better get some tinfoil to fix it up.  :smiley:
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on November 15, 2021, 08:56:04 am
Your quoting bitchute? A site renown for hate speech and far-right conspiracy theories? seriously  :laugh:
First, did you even watch the video? It's nothing more than various clips of various news programs being sponsored by Pfizer. He isn't quoting bitchute, he's quoting Good Morning America and Anderson Cooper 360.

Secondly, he's not quoting bitchute. Bitchute isn't a producer of content. Bitchute is an open video sharing platform that chooses not to censor content. Yes you find hate on there. You can also find banal and apolitical content on there. That's its nature- It's an open platform.

One could say youtube is a site renowned for hate based on the comments. It's also the site where 9/11 conspiracy theory vids spread.

It's all in how you frame it.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Kyndo on November 15, 2021, 09:06:09 am
First, did you even watch the video? It's nothing more than various clips of various news programs being sponsored by Pfizer. He isn't quoting bitchute, he's quoting Good Morning America and Anderson Cooper 360.

Secondly, he's not quoting bitchute. Bitchute isn't a producer of content. Bitchute is an open video sharing platform that chooses not to censor content. Yes you find hate on there. You can also find banal and apolitical content on there. That's its nature- It's an open platform.

One could say youtube is a site renowned for hate based on the comments. It's also the site where 9/11 conspiracy theory vids spread.

It's all in how you frame it.
Sorry, you're right. It was shorthand for "You're quoting materials from bitchute". I shouldn't be lazy like that, I know, I know!
And honestly, it's not just Bitchute: Youtube is usually a pretty unreliable source as well. So much biased, unverified/unverifiable garbage there as well.

And while the segments stitched together might be legit, stitching together cherry-picked sound-bites  isn't a convincing way to make broad-sweeping accusations of a company nefariously buying influence over main-stream media.
It's just a suspect way of presenting information: it's all in how you frame it, you see.  :wink:
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on November 15, 2021, 09:23:51 am
Well I agree that it depends on the nature of the sponsorship and the level of control. For example, if some football announcer says that "I love my Pepsi because Coke is nasty", Coke might care or might not. And they might yank their sponsorship. But Pepsi would just swoop in and no one would really care, though the announcer might be told to be more professional.

At the same time an entire industry might exert a level of influence. We did see how big pharma was able to unite to get pharma commercials on regular TV, a rather dubious outcome. They could, as a united group, exert influence on broadcasters. This is especially the case as conglomerates become intertwined. Even if the media company isn't part of an umbrella corporation that also controls pharmaceuticals, it would face significant potential pressure in its content. Of course in most cases, this potential pressure is never actualized. Whatever company usually doesn't care, as long as you keep any criticism generalized. That's why you can get people criticizing the finance industry or the auto industry or Big Pharma as long as they don't get specific about the brand OR that whatever the company did was so obvious and newsworthy, that it would be a joke to gloss over it.

However in certain specific circumstances, there MIGHT be a case where a company would put pressure. Like say, a high-profile situation involving an incredibly high-profile product of theirs during an incredibly sensitive situation. This is a situation in which different rules and standards would apply and the stakes would be much higher. And while nothing can be proven, it certainly is something that should be monitored. Not investigated, but at least monitored.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Kyndo on November 15, 2021, 09:35:19 am
I won't deny any of that: it's certainly possible. Heck, I'm sure that to some minor extent it's even likely.
But it's beside the point. My issue was that the quality of the source was low.  A video collage posted on a video hosting site notorious for pandering to cranks and political extremists by an anti-vaxxer who also posts videos about demon manifestations and alien overlord conspiracies is not a particularly convincing way to make a point.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on November 15, 2021, 09:48:26 am
A video collage posted on a video hosting site notorious for pandering to cranks and political extremists by an anti-vaxxer who also posts videos about demon manifestations and alien overlord conspiracies is not a particularly convincing way to make a point.
I think all of that to some extent is sort of irrelevant if the content is simply recordings of various news programs being sponsored by pfizer. None of what follows makes it untrue per se, though it does make one wonder if it has been manipulated at all. However, given the relatively banal nature of it, I don't think most would disagree. I mean is anyone out here really thinking Pfizer hasn't sponsored various programming on various channels? Since that really isn't in dispute, I don't think that anything involving the source or the other content is really a factor in anything.

Now the CONCLUSIONS Chester Jim draws, those are up for debate. What he's missing is that yes, Pfizer exerts anamount of influence, but then so do the following- Coca Cola, Pepsi, Microsoft, Apple, Samsung, Kia Hyundai, Ford, Chrysler, GM, VW, BMW, Toyota, Honda, The Democratic Party, The Republican Party, McDonald's, Wendy's, Burger King, Carl's Jr., Smashburger, Taco Bell, Chipotle, Del Taco, Sonic, Denny's, etc. etc. etc.

The sheer diversity of sources dilutes the influence each has. That being said, as I said, either a conglomerate or a single industry, properly motivated, CAN make some noise.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Chester Jim on November 15, 2021, 10:02:37 am
I think all of that to some extent is sort of irrelevant if the content is simply recordings of various news programs being sponsored by pfizer. None of what follows makes it untrue per se, though it does make one wonder if it has been manipulated at all. However, given the relatively banal nature of it, I don't think most would disagree. I mean is anyone out here really thinking Pfizer hasn't sponsored various programming on various channels? Since that really isn't in dispute, I don't think that anything involving the source or the other content is really a factor in anything.

Now the CONCLUSIONS Chester Jim draws, those are up for debate. What he's missing is that yes, Pfizer exerts anamount of influence, but then so do the following- Coca Cola, Pepsi, Microsoft, Apple, Samsung, Kia Hyundai, Ford, Chrysler, GM, VW, BMW, Toyota, Honda, The Democratic Party, The Republican Party, McDonald's, Wendy's, Burger King, Carl's Jr., Smashburger, Taco Bell, Chipotle, Del Taco, Sonic, Denny's, etc. etc. etc.

The sheer diversity of sources dilutes the influence each has. That being said, as I said, either a conglomerate or a single industry, properly motivated, CAN make some noise.


You are not getting off that easy pal throwing ol Chester Jim from Arkansas under the bus. 
I am not missing anything.
I understand how corporate media works.
The same corporate media sponsored by Pfizer and all these trashy junk multinational globalist companies are the ones the Kyndo says are the legitimate sources. 
I wonder how familiar he is with the past dishonesty of these companies like CNN and the New York Times. How many life lines do they get before they become universally regarded as trash.
The only thing that matters is what is true. 
This collage is a very simple powerful way to see the problem. 
No tricks just clips straight from their sources.
It makes Kyndo uncomfortable because of cognitive dissonance. 
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on November 15, 2021, 10:13:11 am
I wonder how familiar he is with the past dishonesty of these companies like CNN and the New York Times. How many life lines do they get before they become universally regarded as trash.
The only thing that matters is what is true. 
This collage is a very simple powerful way to see the problem. 
No tricks just clips straight from their sources.
That can all be true. That doesn't mean that whoever disagrees with them or is reporting something else is necessarily correct either.

If you aren't applying the same level of skepticism to YOUR sources and the outlets YOU enjoy, then you are making the same mistake as everyone you claim to have a problem with. Yes, the MSM is often full of it and you need to carefully scrutinize them, same goes for youtubers and independent media. And you can't have a selective memory about what YOUR preferred sources get right and what they got wrong.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Chester Jim on November 15, 2021, 10:18:59 am
That can all be true. That doesn't mean that whoever disagrees with them or is reporting something else is necessarily correct either.

If you aren't applying the same level of skepticism to YOUR sources and the outlets YOU enjoy, then you are making the same mistake as everyone you claim to have a problem with. Yes, the MSM is often full of it and you need to carefully scrutinize them, same goes for youtubers and independent media. And you can't have a selective memory about what YOUR preferred sources get right and what they got wrong.
Preaching to the choir.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on November 15, 2021, 10:24:55 am
Preaching to the choir.
No, I don't think I am.

If I was, you'd also understand that the fact that Pfizer sponsors various media outlets is not proof of either a coverup nor that the vaccines are ineffecitve nor that the booster shot is a cash grab and that any media outlet/youtuber asserting that (vs. say, saying we need to watch carefully) is doing the same thing as the MSM.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Chester Jim on November 15, 2021, 10:41:19 am
No, I don't think I am.

If I was, you'd also understand that the fact that Pfizer sponsors various media outlets is not proof of either a coverup nor that the vaccines are ineffecitve nor that the booster shot is a cash grab and that any media outlet/youtuber asserting that (vs. say, saying we need to watch carefully) is doing the same thing as the MSM.

You seem to be fighting a strawman and are fading in an out of abstraction, perhaps to appeal as an intermediary, like a Cheney or a Kinzinger.  They won't be missed.  Is the right really going to come back to the table with the left like a battered housewife to her husband to start over again.  I don't think so.  You want to read into things without enough information like  Freudian garbage.  I am much better at it.

It's evidence and just a small bit of a mountain of evidence.  Their past criminal history is also part of the record.
I am saying take this evidence and make it part of the record along with all of the vaccination deaths and injuries.
Instead people seem content to silence the voices of these people.  If my child got injured because of the vaccine and I felt like we were forced,  god help whoever I deem responsible.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: tylerthegloob on November 15, 2021, 11:45:35 am
If my child got injured because of the vaccine and I felt like we were forced,  god help whoever I deem responsible.

you accidentally summed this up kind of nicely. it doesn't matter who is actually responsible. it's just about whoever you (and people like you) judge to be responsible.
just another one of the jester chim's fascistic tendencies. it all fits right in muh narrative
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Chester Jim on November 15, 2021, 12:02:37 pm
you accidentally summed this up kind of nicely. it doesn't matter who is actually responsible. it's just about whoever you (and people like you) judge to be responsible.
just another one of the jester chim's fascistic tendencies. it all fits right in muh narrative

Well there are so many people.  But, yes, if my child died I would lose my shit, and then I could take my pick.  I would aim as high as possible on the child vax pusher chart. .   But yes I would be judge jury and executioner at this point.  Rest assured they had some part in pushing the vaccine, so it's not random, but they would be high up. Of course my child would never take the vaccine, so this is all hypothetical, but  I would not give in to some sacrificial cult.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on November 15, 2021, 12:34:20 pm
You want to read into things without enough information like  Freudian garbage. 
If you think bias is "Freudian garbage", you're an idiot. Bias has nothing to do with Freud, it is something innate to all human beings based on their experiences and learned responses.

Quote
I am much better at it.
Why? Because you say so? Have you taken any kind of objective test to analyze this?

Quote
It's evidence and just a small bit of a mountain of evidence.
It's not evidence any more than Trump having visited Moscow is evidence of Trump-Russia. Simply being linked in some way isn't evidence that what is being alleged has actually taken place. Yes, it can provide motive and/or opportunity, but it doesn't then follow that the person is guilty.

Quote
  Their past criminal history is also part of the record.
Again, by your "logic" past criminal behavior or past actions by people such as Manafort or Trump and TrumpU are evidence. And while they can go to character, again they do not provide evidence of what is being alleged.

Quote
I am saying take this evidence and make it part of the record along with all of the vaccination deaths and injuries.
Again, it's not really evidence that anything has taken place. I have noted it and as I said, it warrants monitoring, but unless you have something more, it can't go any farther than that, and clearly it has in your mind.

Quote
Instead people seem content to silence the voices of these people.
I do think as long as they aren't engaged in criminal/actionable speech, they should be permitted to air their view on open platforms.

Chester Jim, the same thing that made me the foremost critic of the Trump-Russia nonsense, the Fine People hoax, the Capitol Riot being called an "insurrection" and the Trump Bleach delusion (and also dismissed Benghazi!!!! and Emails!!!!!! and pumped the brakes on Joe Biden being in trouble thanks to Hunter Biden's laptop) is why I'm now not endorsing the view that Pfizer is engaged in some sort of conspiracy to pressure the media into certain reporting via COVID. I could change my view in the future, but it's going to take more than the fact that they've sponsored certain shows.

Ford and GM will sponsor shows that in turn will feature guests bashing SUVs (among the most profitable vehicles for the Big 3). That shouldn't be happening if they really exerted as much control as you claim. It's possible that Brian Stelter genuinely thinks vaccines work and that's his honest opinion.
Title: Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
Post by: Chester Jim on November 15, 2021, 01:23:26 pm
If you think bias is "Freudian garbage", you're an idiot. Bias has nothing to do with Freud, it is something innate to all human beings based on their experiences and learned responses.
Why? Because you say so? Have you taken any kind of objective test to analyze this?
It's not evidence any more than Trump having visited Moscow is evidence of Trump-Russia. Simply being linked in some way isn't evidence that what is being alleged has actually taken place. Yes, it can provide motive and/or opportunity, but it doesn't then follow that the person is guilty.
Again, by your "logic" past criminal behavior or past actions by people such as Manafort or Trump and TrumpU are evidence. And while they can go to character, again they do not provide evidence of what is being alleged.
Again, it's not really evidence that anything has taken place. I have noted it and as I said, it warrants monitoring, but unless you have something more, it can't go any farther than that, and clearly it has in your mind.
I do think as long as they aren't engaged in criminal/actionable speech, they should be permitted to air their view on open platforms.

Chester Jim, the same thing that made me the foremost critic of the Trump-Russia nonsense, the Fine People hoax, the Capitol Riot being called an "insurrection" and the Trump Bleach delusion (and also dismissed Benghazi!!!! and Emails!!!!!! and pumped the brakes on Joe Biden being in trouble thanks to Hunter Biden's laptop) is why I'm now not endorsing the view that Pfizer is engaged in some sort of conspiracy to pressure the media into certain reporting via COVID. I could change my view in the future, but it's going to take more than the fact that they've sponsored certain shows.

Ford and GM will sponsor shows that in turn will feature guests bashing SUVs (among the most profitable vehicles for the Big 3). That shouldn't be happening if they really exerted as much control as you claim. It's possible that Brian Stelter genuinely thinks vaccines work and that's his honest opinion.

What is being alleged?  You keep creating strawmen and knocking em down.  Good job.