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Symposium => "Open" Discussions => Topic started by: Liechtenstein on August 18, 2021, 01:39:31 pm

Title: ex partners
Post by: Liechtenstein on August 18, 2021, 01:39:31 pm
Here's another question but I won't bother with a poll.

For those who have ex partners including long term boyfriend / girlfriend that you cohabitated with and those who were married, which is probably everybody here, do you still have a relationship with your ex?

Do you believe it is good to have one? Possible?

I'm still in contact with my ex-wife. I still love her. I'm not in love with her but I do still love her. I send her money and she helps me out by taking care of financial obligations back in Canada. I send her a birthday gift every year. My present wife loves her too and they talk on Skype when we call.  I'm still in contact with my girlfriend from university days 1980ish. I introduced her to her husband.

I admit, the huge majority of people I have met who have been divorced have absolutely no time for their exes. I think that's sad.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: hangook77 on August 19, 2021, 07:41:23 am
Your situation is a bit unique.  There are some exes if I ran into a polite hello and small brief chit chat.  But some others we avoid each other.  Overall, I never call or keep in contact with.  Though one or two may still be on a friends list with unfollowing. 
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: 745sticky on August 19, 2021, 08:03:24 am
just depends on the nature of the breakup, divorces especially usually tend to end on bad terms.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: nightninja on August 19, 2021, 03:48:00 pm
depends on culture too, i've heard if it's with a korean spouse you will never talk to him/her or the family again, unless there are kids involved
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Aristocrat on August 19, 2021, 04:10:08 pm
depends on culture too, i've heard if it's with a korean spouse you will never talk to him/her or the family again, unless there are kids involved

Agreed, big cultural differences even in Western countries.

Even as a Westerner, I find the behaviour of (hope you'll forgive me for saying this, but we're all friends here) "white" people quite odd. For example, cohabiting with someone I'm not married with would be asking for trouble. These couples who don't get married for years just blows my mind. One of a women's most valuable assets is her youth, so breakup after a relationship lasting years and you've essentially just wasted your time.

I believe a man should know if he wants to get married to his GF after 6 months. Take time to save or prepare for a wedding but don't jerk someone around or waste their time. Just my opinion.

Regarding past relationships, both my wife and I believe in a clean break. I wouldn't go so far as to hide behind a tree if I see them on the street, but maintaining a relationship with an ex would be a slap in the face to my wife, I'd never disrespect her like that. I see absolutely no logical reason to maintain any relationship with an ex... why?

Only thing, in this regard, that I can accept is that Gwen Steffani's 'Cool' is a great song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGwZ7MNtBFU
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: VanIslander on August 19, 2021, 11:59:06 pm
I have had relationships of (in order, in terms of number of years): 4, 1, 5, 2, 1... (yeah, a double rebound, but that's for another thread).

I had an on-going relationship with my first (4-year) gal, but it only complicated things.

I am all for a "fresh new start" and new relationships.

EDIT: Once a relationship goes south, drop the anchor or cut free.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: KimDuHan on August 20, 2021, 12:24:49 am
If you break up on good terms then there is nothing wrong with being friends.

The exception is some people are not compatible with each other and a messy break up/hate/regret is inevitable.

Live in the future, not the past

Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: JNM on August 20, 2021, 01:12:09 am
My ex-wife went “scorched earth” when she left and  I didn’t agree to her conditions for coming back.

Hard to remain friends with someone who makes ridiculous accusations and demands, sometimes in court.

I am still friends with my junior high girlfriend. We have dinner together whenever I am in her city, and she looked after my kids on my (2nd) wedding night.
 
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: nightninja on August 20, 2021, 09:06:57 am
I think being friends with a past gf/bf would be ok depending on the person and how close you were before dating etc, but after marriage, it just feels like it would be different......

I dunno...I'm still married and dont know why so I cant really have an opinion on the matter I guess

Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: CO2 on August 20, 2021, 09:15:55 am
Depends, like most things. If you only dated for 2 or 3 months and you have some mutual friends? Don't make a big deal of it, hang out in social settings, it's prob not the end of the world. Most relationships that short don't end in vases being thrown at each other.

But a couple of years? There are some deep roots there and it's not so easy to just "be cool" with each other and there's a much higher chance of there being a lot of underlying tension in the way the two communicate/deal with each other.

 In most scenarios, moving on and letting go is the best option whilst remaining cordial should they happen to run into each other.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Liechtenstein on August 20, 2021, 09:57:44 am
Good points, all.

In my opinion, an inevitable break-up is usually pretty clear well before the split actually happens. Most times it's difficult or impossible for the people involved to see it so they keep struggling to hold things together while the relationship unravels. Afterwards, it's easy (easier) to see where the tipping point was. That point where your best friend says, "Yeah man, I knew you guys were done for when XYZ happened." Which could have been weeks, months or maybe years prior to the actual break-up. This is very often the case when children are involved. People keep hanging on for the kids, when that is probably the worst thing for the kids.

I knew when my first marriage was done for. We weren't fighting, screaming yelling, throwing shit around, but it was broken and couldn't be fixed.

So we sat down, cracked a bottle of wine and grabbed some paper and a pen and figured out what we had and what we owed and came up with a split. No lawyers involved at all.

It was painless and friendly. She drove me to the airport, got a special pass to accompany me to the departure lounge and gave me a hug when I got on that big ol' 747 for Korea. That was in 2005.

The war starts when the inevitable break-up is long past its due date and the people involved keep playing, like a gambler chasing losses.

Exes almost always say, "I should have left him/her when blah blah blah." But they don't leave. They stay and anger becomes hatred all too often. Had they left, maybe they'd still be friends. I did exactly that. I know others who have done the same thing too.

I think the cultural argument is baseless and silly. Just because you split up from someone does not mean you must ghost them and their family for life. Remember, there was a time when you loved each other..........
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: nightninja on August 20, 2021, 10:07:51 am
I think the cultural argument is baseless and silly. Just because you split up from someone does not mean you must ghost them and their family for life. Remember, there was a time when you loved each other..........

Yes, I would agree that it is silly, but I think that it does happen a lot. I was talking to my Korean sister-in-law and she said after a divorce even if you still want to be friendly with that person or their family....you just have to think of them as being dead.....


maturity level may come into play so every situation/relationship would be different
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Aristocrat on August 20, 2021, 10:52:15 am
I think the cultural argument is baseless and silly. Just because you split up from someone does not mean you must ghost them and their family for life. Remember, there was a time when you loved each other..........

You seem unable to be able to view from a different cultural perspective. Your reasoning is sound, but that doesn't mean it's the only form of reasoning out there.

I can't remember the term, but it refers to words having different meaning in different cultures. Aside from that, different cultures and Religions view the institute of marriage differently.

From my perspective, my wife will be the first and oftentimes only person I'll come to with a problem, issue or concern. If the problem is with my wife, again, she'll be the first and only person I'll discuss it with (except of course a professional).
It's a bitch of a man that complains to his friends/mother/co-workers or whoever about personal problems he is having with his wife.

If you find yourself having thoughts or feelings for an ex, you man up, keep that sh*t to yourself, control your hormones like an adult and take it to your grave.
There are 7 billion people on Earth, why do you need to be friends with an ex? Love? BS, people who do this enjoy feeling desired by others. A guy sitting in a room full of women he slept
with is going to feel like a bit of rockstar because each one of these women was attracted to him. Men who enjoy putting themselves in these positions are insecure. Same is true for women.

You might not be able to control your feelings but you can control your actions. If you must, discuss with your wife the option of taking on your ex as a 2nd wife, at least then you're being honest and honouring them both with legitimacy instead of sneaking back and forth like a rat.

If, say, I discovered my ex was the real-estate agent for the house my wife and I were buying then ok, that's a professional relationship.

So there you go, a different cultural perspective. You might not agree, but the reasoning is sound.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: 745sticky on August 20, 2021, 11:04:25 am
why are you equating being friends with an ex to ****** them? and while i guess nobody technically "needs" to be friends with an ex, itd be pretty rude to cut out someone you were once that close with (assuming the breakup was amicable). nobodys saying you gotta be best buds with yours or anything, your life and all that, but putting it down to wanting to feel desired by others... im not entirely sure if youre nihilistic or projecting, haha
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Liechtenstein on August 20, 2021, 11:08:40 am
You seem unable to be able to view from a different cultural perspective. Your reasoning is sound, but that doesn't mean it's the only form of reasoning out there.

I can't remember the term, but it refers to words having different meaning in different cultures. Aside from that, different cultures and Religions view the institute of marriage differently.

From my perspective, my wife will be the first and oftentimes only person I'll come to with a problem, issue or concern. If the problem is with my wife, again, she'll be the first and only person I'll discuss it with (except of course a professional).
It's a bitch of a man that complains to his friends/mother/co-workers or whoever about personal problems he is having with his wife.

If you find yourself having thoughts or feelings for an ex, you man up, keep that sh*t to yourself, control your hormones like an adult and take it to your grave.
There are 7 billion people on Earth, why do you need to be friends with an ex? Love? BS, people who do this enjoy feeling desired by others. A guy sitting in a room full of women he slept
with is going to feel like a bit of rockstar because each one of these women was attracted to him. Men who enjoy putting themselves in these positions are insecure. Same is true for women.

You might not be able to control your feelings but you can control your actions. If you must, discuss with your wife the option of taking on your ex as a 2nd wife, at least then you're being honest and honouring them both with legitimacy instead of sneaking back and forth like a rat.

If, say, I discovered my ex was the real-estate agent for the house my wife and I were buying then ok, that's a professional relationship.

So there you go, a different cultural perspective. You might not agree, but the reasoning is sound.

How about this? Not everyone is full of hate and anger they can't let go of.

I never invited my ex to visit me in SE Asia. My SE Asian wife did. Yeah, that's right. A man would have to be insane to invite his ex into his house with his present wife. I'm a lot of things, but I'm not insane.

I talked to my ex on Skype and my wife always joined in. After many conversations my wife invited my ex. She continued to invite her with each successive conversation. I never said anything.

My ex asked me if my wife was serious. I told her that the locals don't say anything they don't mean. They say nothing as opposed to saying something that they clearly don't mean. So, my wife would never have asked my ex to visit when she didn't want her too. She certainly wouldn't have asked several times. She would have said nothing.

So, when my ex was assured she really was welcome she came to SE Asia on vacation and stayed with us at the behest of my wife. They have been friends ever since and still talk on Skype.

Not everyone has to hate forever. Or hate at all for that matter. Maybe you do and that's okay.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Aristocrat on August 20, 2021, 12:13:32 pm
How about this? Not everyone is full of hate and anger they can't let go of.

Not everyone has to hate forever. Or hate at all for that matter. Maybe you do and that's okay.

You still don't get it.
 
It's got nothing to do with hate, it's foresight and maturity. Not everything is a crappy Hollywood movie plot. 

I've never had a nasty breakup (HS flings don't count). It's precisely because we want the best for one another that we agree to part ways, it's the selfless and best choice.
When the other person is absent from your life it becomes easier to move on, start fresh and devote all your attention to your current spouse as you should.
As I said, there are 7 billion people on Earth, there's no shortage of prospective friends. Why the hell would I want to socialize with an ex?

I fully agree with KimDuHan and will slightly amend has quote that we should "Live in the present and the future, not the past."

Then again... you're still exclusively listening to the same old music from 40yrs ago.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: CO2 on August 20, 2021, 12:16:35 pm
Aristrocrat, why would I listen to anything besides Foghat and Thin Lizzy? There is no good music today because mumble rap and Taylor Swift.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Aristocrat on August 20, 2021, 12:17:26 pm
why are you equating being friends with an ex to ****** them? and while i guess nobody technically "needs" to be friends with an ex, itd be pretty rude to cut out someone you were once that close with (assuming the breakup was amicable). nobodys saying you gotta be best buds with yours or anything, your life and all that, but putting it down to wanting to feel desired by others... im not entirely sure if youre nihilistic or projecting, haha

I'm giving the person the opportunity to forget about me so she can find happiness with someone new.
My perspective prioritises my wife's honour and the happiness of my ex, not my shitty nostalgia.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Liechtenstein on August 20, 2021, 12:24:35 pm
I'm giving the person the opportunity to forget about me so she can find happiness with someone new.
My perspective prioritises my wife's honour and the happiness of my ex, not my shitty nostalgia.

There's the answer right there. You are profoundly easy to forget about.

What's wrong with music from 40 years ago? Details....
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: CO2 on August 20, 2021, 12:31:44 pm
There's nothing wrong with that music. But all too often I meet people in their 50s who think the only good music was made when they were 16-24yo.

Funny.............. .

Obviously we all have our preferences and favourite bands, but it's SO small-minded not to delve in to what the ENTIRE music scene has to offer.

Guess what? Tiktok isn't going to introduce you to new music you like. You might not like lists of greatest albums, but if you like Rock, just look at Rolling Stone or NME's year end lists. There will be SOMETHING in there for you, I'll bet 1000$ on it.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Liechtenstein on August 20, 2021, 12:39:50 pm
There's nothing wrong with that music. But all too often I meet people in their 50s who think the only good music was made when they were 16-24yo.

Funny.............. .

Obviously we all have our preferences and favourite bands, but it's SO small-minded not to delve in to what the ENTIRE music scene has to offer.

Guess what? Tiktok isn't going to introduce you to new music you like. You might not like lists of greatest albums, but if you like Rock, just look at Rolling Stone or NME's year end lists. There will be SOMETHING in there for you, I'll bet 1000$ on it.

I've read some research about the music memory phenomenon somewhere some time ago that said the human brain gets hard-wired to things that it learned on. That's why baby boomers (not an insult) think life was better back then, music was better back then. Children today listening to mostly what I consider to be crap, will be saying the same things boomers say 40 years from now to their kids and grandkids.

Back in 2020, when I was young, music was so much better than the crap you're listening too.

And the kids will here the same things I hear from young kids. You're old. You don't get it.

And the exact same thing will happen 40 years hence, and 40 years later and on and on.......
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Aristocrat on August 20, 2021, 12:57:08 pm
I've read some research about the music memory phenomenon somewhere some time ago that said the human brain gets hard-wired to things that it learned on. That's why baby boomers (not an insult) think life was better back then, music was better back then. Children today listening to mostly what I consider to be crap, will be saying the same things boomers say 40 years from now to their kids and grandkids.

Back in 2020, when I was young, music was so much better than the crap you're listening too.

And the kids will here the same things I hear from young kids. You're old. You don't get it.

And the exact same thing will happen 40 years hence, and 40 years later and on and on.......

Adam Neely discussed the theory that your musical taste peaks at 14. He removed the video because he probably realised that it had nothing to do with musical taste, but rather with emotion.

Listening to music triggers parts of the brain that deal with emotion and is a powerful tool for bringing up implicit memories (memories which have been stored in your subconscious)

If you find yourself swearing that music from your youth is the only music worth listening to then it's likely that it's got nothing to do with the music, but rather the emotions and memories the music is bringing back.
You were younger, life was more carefree, you were in better shape, you went on adventures etc. and listening to nothing but tired, old dad-rock on a regular basis is a sign that you're living in the past.

Incidentally, this segues nicely to the topic of one of the reasons why people insist on socialising with their ex; they can't let go of the past.

https://sites.psu.edu/siowfa16/2016/09/16/why-does-music-trigger-specific-memories/comment-page-1/
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: OnNut81 on August 20, 2021, 12:57:50 pm
You seem unable to be able to view from a different cultural perspective. Your reasoning is sound, but that doesn't mean it's the only form of reasoning out there.

I can't remember the term, but it refers to words having different meaning in different cultures. Aside from that, different cultures and Religions view the institute of marriage differently.

From my perspective, my wife will be the first and oftentimes only person I'll come to with a problem, issue or concern. If the problem is with my wife, again, she'll be the first and only person I'll discuss it with (except of course a professional).
It's a bitch of a man that complains to his friends/mother/co-workers or whoever about personal problems he is having with his wife.

If you find yourself having thoughts or feelings for an ex, you man up, keep that sh*t to yourself, control your hormones like an adult and take it to your grave.
There are 7 billion people on Earth, why do you need to be friends with an ex? Love? BS, people who do this enjoy feeling desired by others. A guy sitting in a room full of women he slept
with is going to feel like a bit of rockstar because each one of these women was attracted to him. Men who enjoy putting themselves in these positions are insecure. Same is true for women.

You might not be able to control your feelings but you can control your actions. If you must, discuss with your wife the option of taking on your ex as a 2nd wife, at least then you're being honest and honouring them both with legitimacy instead of sneaking back and forth like a rat.

If, say, I discovered my ex was the real-estate agent for the house my wife and I were buying then ok, that's a professional relationship.

So there you go, a different cultural perspective. You might not agree, but the reasoning is sound.

Like you did above with your disclaimers before you shit on relationships based on being white or culturally different, I also respect everyone's cultural viewpoints. Now, let's get to it.

You seem to have these preconceptions for relationships between men and women that are childish and not based on practical world experiences.  It's like something out of a comic book or B movie when the ancient mystic appears to the young man in a peyote fueled vision and tells him the rules for being a man.  You seem to have these defined roles for you and your wife from the outset, instead of an organically and naturally evolving relationship.  It's a bitch of a man that goes to others about problems he's having with his wife?  Sounds like rules that were drawn up by the Macho Man's Club, made up exclusively of dudes that are single.  It can be very healthy, therapeutic and enlightening to discuss concerns with other people that also have experience.  Sometimes, it can lead to understanding something is just a bump in the road and lead to better resolutions. 

As far as maintaining friendships with previous partners, a real man is capable of judging things on a case by case basis.  Much of what we got from a previous partner we get from our new partner and vice versa so the interest in meeting up evaporates.  I used to still meet up with the girl I dated for three years of university.  When she ended up working at the same law firm I was at after we broke up, we used to go out to lunch regularly in a group and had lots of laughs.  The girl I lived with and first came to Korea with I never saw again after our break up.  I still hear about my ex-wife but I cut off direct ties because her friendly phone calls were usually accompanied by a request to "borrow" some money.  You sound as if you ran into your ex and had a coffee you would have to go home and explain that "Wife, I have broken the rules of Man.  I saw old wife today and we caught up.  I have wronged you.  No, you do not need to react as the rules of the Elders specify my punishment.  I will do the dishes for a week and watch Friends every night at nine.  I will also not tell you my sprint times for a period not exceeding seven days.  Sorry, Wife. "

It just sounds like you're a guy with limited experience in long term relationships telling everyone here how they should behave based on your current set up.  For me, your viewpoint lacks authority. But if it works for you and your culture, awesome!
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on August 20, 2021, 01:18:23 pm
I think it's hilarious that the people who make the biggest deal about their students being all about Kpop and not into other music and being upset when they tell them they don't listen to Kpop, always throw the biggest hissy fits over rock from 30-50 years ago being the greatest thing ever and get butthurt when people tell them they don't listen and they don't care.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: 745sticky on August 20, 2021, 01:20:30 pm
I think it's hilarious that the people who make the biggest deal about their students being all about Kpop and not into other music and being upset when they tell them they don't listen to Kpop, always throw the biggest hissy fits over rock from 30-50 years ago being the greatest thing ever and get butthurt when people tell them they don't listen and they don't care.

what?

edit: my bad, i missed the previous like 3-4 posts of unrelated posting, anyways music moment over lets get back to the actual topic (not that theres much hope of that now that martino has thrown in his usual snarky quip deliberately placed to rile people up)
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Liechtenstein on August 20, 2021, 01:26:05 pm
Adam Neely discussed the theory that your musical taste peaks at 14. He removed the video because he probably realised that it had nothing to do with musical taste, but rather with emotion.

Listening to music triggers parts of the brain that deal with emotion and is a powerful tool for bringing up implicit memories (memories which have been stored in your subconscious)

If you find yourself swearing that music from your youth is the only music worth listening to then it's likely that it's got nothing to do with the music, but rather the emotions and memories the music is bringing back.
You were younger, life was more carefree, you were in better shape, you went on adventures etc. and listening to nothing but tired, old dad-rock on a regular basis is a sign that you're living in the past.

Incidentally, this segues nicely to the topic of one of the reasons why people insist on socialising with their ex; they can't let go of the past.

https://sites.psu.edu/siowfa16/2016/09/16/why-does-music-trigger-specific-memories/comment-page-1/

That's a good point. I do still listen to music I grew up with. I still listen to the Beatles and Led Zep. I also listen to Mozart and Bach which were not in the least prevalent in my household :-)

As I grew I learned to like various genres of music beyond my own personal tastes as a young person. I suppose there is a legitimate argument for people clinging to the past that only listen to what they grew up with. That's not me, although I do prefer what I grew up with compared to much of what is coming out today. But what I grew up with, into the teen years was fairly widespread. From Hank Snow to Frank Zappa. I'm not as closed-minded as some here think. Note my post from a while back where I introduced myself to BlackPink. In fact I have Arirang K-Pop on the stereo right now. Some is bubble gum crap, but some is also pretty boppy.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on August 20, 2021, 01:28:48 pm
So, when my ex was assured she really was welcome she came to SE Asia on vacation and stayed with us at the behest of my wife. They have been friends ever since and still talk on Skype.

Not everyone has to hate forever. Or hate at all for that matter. Maybe you do and that's okay.
I don't mean this as an insult and this is only in jest at the situation in general, not you specifically but I have to make a list of possible explanations

1) "I believe the term is...menage a trois?"
2) Evidence for future divorce
3) Female cuck fantasies
4) Finally someone who knows what an idiot he is and I can rant to about his foot odor!
5) Wife is selling Avon and a sale is a sale

I kid I kid with all of these, but ones radar has to go up...who knows it might be good!
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: OnNut81 on August 20, 2021, 01:29:00 pm
Yeah, this was just getting interesting before people without warning veered a conversation about exes into which generation of music people like, so that we can have the same comments we've heard a thousand times before about people preferring the music of their youth as they get older.  We got it then and we get it now. 

Any way could we get the guys above who started the completely unrelated foray into music on this thread voluntarily delete the posts?  And now DMart has brought Kpop into the discussion.  Son of a bitch...it's done. 
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Liechtenstein on August 20, 2021, 01:31:12 pm
I don't mean this as an insult and this is only in jest at the situation in general, not you specifically but I have to make a list of possible explanations

1) "I believe the term is...menage a trois?"
2) Evidence for future divorce
3) Female cuck fantasies
4) Finally someone who knows what an idiot he is and I can rant to about his foot odor!
5) Wife is selling Avon and a sale is a sale

I kid I kid with all of these, but ones radar has to go up...who knows it might be good!

#1 would have been fun.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: 745sticky on August 20, 2021, 01:32:37 pm
sometimes i feel like the lack of interesting conversation on this forum is manufactured. in any case, im apparently off early today, so ill leave yall to have fun with regurgitated music conversation # god knows what
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Liechtenstein on August 20, 2021, 01:33:22 pm
To make a long thread short, it is possible to have a positive relationship with an ex. It doesn't happen often but it is possible.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: L I on August 20, 2021, 01:39:18 pm
I'm not as closed-minded as some here think. Note my post from a while back where I introduced myself to BlackPink.

Here’s their biggest English hit:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vRXZj0DzXIA

Over half a billion views!

The world’s lovin’ Kpop!
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on August 20, 2021, 01:44:34 pm
As far as exes, I think out of respect for whomever you're with and to each other, both of you should leave things in the realm of professional or at most, if there is some sort of friend/community group be cordial then. But if you're still sharing messages and whatever, that's only going to breed suspicion.

I know, I know, everyone thinks it's just being friendly and kind and your SO shouldn't be insecure and bothered about it. Bullsh*t. We all know what often happens- One person starts not trusting the other. One person either slowly falls back into the old relationship or sees the lack of complaint as implicit consent to push boundaries. Yes, ideally we could all be cordial and friendly and there ARE some ex relationships that go that way, but the odds of you being that are vanishingly small.

I will somewhat agree with Aristocrat that I think there is a problem with how marriage is perceived in the West and the issues it creates. In recent times it has become based around "love". I've discussed this earlier, but marriage really isn't about love. It's about family, families coming together, raising children, being there in sickness, and the years of your life 50-80+. The western view of marriage seems to be based in large part around the first quarter, when the entire thing is four quarters. The focus tends to be on the excitement of love, physical attractiveness, "we're soulmates", enjoying the best of times when young and healthy, doing fun stuff couples without kids do, spending money, doing cool stuff with other cool people, etc. etc. It's a really childish and unrealistic view of things and it's no wonder that the rate is so high and that couples really struggle with children and so on.

There does seem to be some pushback among younger people who either A) Just won't get married or B) Actually are taking the whole "raising children and building a home" aspect of it seriously and being a bit more practical.

Finally, a lot of these rules and customs are similar in cultures across the world (and many "Eastern" things were really Eurasian until about the 1960s). They've also persisted over thousands of years. There is probably a good reason for that and it's not just "ignorant religion" or "the patriarchy".

I wouldn't go as far as Aristocrat in drawing as firm a line, but I would lean somewhat in his direction and say that there are good reasons much of the rest of the world (and the western world until recent times) had such practices and views.

While traditional couples have many problems as we all know, the fact is that the rate of "drama" I saw in them back home vs. the "live together for years, have a fling with an ex, etc." and whatnot was far lower. They also tended to be more financially stable, be better at long-term decision making, willing to delay gratification, have better impulse control, and engage in less-risky behavior.

I think it ultimately comes down to this- Do you view your pleasure and happiness as the most important thing in the world? If your answer is yes, you probably get our current model. If the answer is "no", you probably get a more traditional view.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on August 20, 2021, 01:51:52 pm
#1 would have been fun.
Well, hopefully. Or...

"Dude! Two chicks at the same time! So how was it? I bet you were like a rock star!"
"Uh, well, actually...I felt more like one of the roadies...getting stuff out of boxes...making sure cables were working...hoping to catch some action after the band finishes..."  :sad:
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Chinguetti on August 20, 2021, 01:53:51 pm
Yeah, it's very possible to have a good relationship with an ex, but so much of that depends on what note the relationship ended on as well as on what type of people are involved and their motivation for wanting to keep in touch.

For most people that I've known, it's not possible to have a positive existence with an ex, and the only reason why they keep in touch with an ex is normally for the kids if kids are involved. Just too many negative emotions involved.

Plus, there are ulterior motives that can keep a toxic thing going when a clean break would have been healthiest for both individuals. I've known too many people who tried to maintain a friendship with their exes only to have their exes get seriously possessive of them if they start dating someone else or even get mad when their sexual advances get rejected. You can't have a healthy relationship with people who want to keep you around because they still have feelings for or a sense of ownership over you.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: L I on August 20, 2021, 01:54:16 pm
sometimes i feel like the lack of interesting conversation on this forum is manufactured.

The more uninteresting posts on here, the more interesting readers/posters will leave the forums.

Low quality posts cause high quality posters to leave.

An example of low quality posting would be saying stuff that’s petty and inane which lacks insight.

Best way to be interesting is to say something relevant and useful that’s of universal appeal to the readers.

Talk about ideas. Imagine you are writing something of publishable quality. Like a book with broad reach. Timeless philosophy.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: OnNut81 on August 20, 2021, 02:27:51 pm
The more uninteresting posts on here, the more interesting readers/posters will leave the forums.

Low quality posts cause high quality posters to leave.

An example of low quality posting would be saying stuff that’s petty and inane which lacks insight.

Best way to be interesting is to say something relevant and useful that’s of universal appeal to the readers.

Talk about ideas. Imagine you are writing something of publishable quality. Like a book with broad reach. Timeless philosophy.

You left out the example of a high quality post while criticizing his low quality post which is completely apropos of this site nowadays. 

This site should be renamed dejavu.org.  It's the same posts being post being thrown up by the same posters for the consumption of the same dwindling group of active participants.  I've said it before, and it generally gets dismissed out of hand (which I can live with), but this site needs an overhaul.  Get rid of the Recent Activity forum.  The more interesting slow burn threads that might eventually draw more people in slide off in favour of the bickering threads.  Replace it and the 36 different sub forums no one can be bothered with and just put four or five forums up.  That way someone can avoid nineteen different American politics threads without them blowing all other topics off the page into the nether world where no one goes. 

And can anyone make a case for these post counts and the idiotic titles that go with them?  They bestow a false sense of authority and keep a new poster with only three posts reluctant to jump in.  We need new blood, otherwise it's going to continue to be the same small group of us reposting sh*t we've all seen dozens of times.  Li and Hangook seem convinced they keep reaching a wider audience with their respective Stossel videos and China Job recruitment.  You're just telling the same people the same thing guys.  I, of course, am above all reproach. 
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: CO2 on August 20, 2021, 02:35:56 pm
I, of course, am above all reproach. 

Here, here!
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: tylerthegloob on August 20, 2021, 02:36:09 pm
are you telling me i'm not a ****** legend?
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: CO2 on August 20, 2021, 02:39:56 pm
are you telling me i'm not a ****** legend?
Drake's UnSmarted
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: OnNut81 on August 20, 2021, 02:49:11 pm
are you telling me i'm not a ****** legend?

Oh, I think you're a legend all right.  I'm just saying it could drive away some new posters to be surrounded by so many legends and Lords. 
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: OnNut81 on August 20, 2021, 02:50:18 pm
The more uninteresting posts on here, the more interesting readers/posters will leave the forums.

Low quality posts cause high quality posters to leave.

An example of low quality posting would be saying stuff that’s petty and inane which lacks insight.

Best way to be interesting is to say something relevant and useful that’s of universal appeal to the readers.

Talk about ideas. Imagine you are writing something of publishable quality. Like a book with broad reach. Timeless philosophy.

You left out the example of a high quality post while criticizing his low quality post which is completely apropos of this site nowadays.

This site should be renamed dejavu.org.  It's the same posts being post being thrown up by the same posters for the consumption of the same dwindling group of active participants.  I've said it before, and it generally gets dismissed out of hand (which I can live with), but this site needs an overhaul.  Get rid of the Recent Activity forum.  The more interesting slow burn threads that might eventually draw more people in slide off in favour of the bickering threads.  Replace it and the 36 different sub forums no one can be bothered with and just put four or five forums up.  That way someone can avoid nineteen different American politics threads without them blowing all other topics off the page into the nether world where no one goes.

And can anyone make a case for these post counts and the idiotic titles that go with them?  They bestow a false sense of authority and keep a new poster with only three posts reluctant to jump in.  We need new blood, otherwise it's going to continue to be the same small group of us reposting sh*t we've all seen dozens of times.  Li and Hangook seem convinced they keep reaching a wider audience with their respective Stossel videos and China Job recruitment.  You're just telling the same people the same thing guys.  I, of course, am above all reproach.

Modify message
« Last Edit: Today at 02:38:29 pm by OnNut81 »
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: CO2 on August 20, 2021, 02:53:43 pm
Oh, I think you're a legend all right.  I'm just saying it could drive away some new posters to be surrounded by so many legends and Lords. 

Let's peon EVERYONE
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Chinguetti on August 20, 2021, 03:00:17 pm
are you telling me i'm not a ****** legend?

Aw, you're gloobtastic. :)
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: OnNut81 on August 20, 2021, 03:04:41 pm
Let's peon EVERYONE

Was that an R. Kelly song?  Back to the music tangent again, I see. 
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: tylerthegloob on August 20, 2021, 03:07:12 pm
Let's peon EVERYONE
(https://hotemoji.com/images/emoji/p/1gqjxj8vn7php.png)
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: CO2 on August 20, 2021, 03:10:08 pm
Was that an R. Kelly song? 

Nope. Coldplay

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKNxeF4KMsY
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: L I on August 20, 2021, 03:12:47 pm
There are way more people reading than posting- people who are searching information about teaching in Korea. Do you think they enjoy one liner puns? No, and I don’t either. I feel like the people doing them do them to amuse themself and to show off to others (incidentally, strangers) how clever they are. Useful? Not really. Single sentence posts are usually really bad, especially those without capitalization or punctuation. It’s annoying to read stuff devoid of insight. I feel dumber for having read it.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: tylerthegloob on August 20, 2021, 03:15:50 pm
especially those without capitalization or punctuation. It’s annoying to read stuff devoid of insight. I feel dumber for having read it.
rude. i find your posts truly edifying L I, especially the one's that are just links to youtube or blackpink videos with comments like "K-Pop is really popping off! Hip hip hooray!" or whatever
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: OnNut81 on August 20, 2021, 03:19:39 pm
There are way more people reading than posting- people who are searching information about teaching in Korea. Do you think they enjoy one liner puns? No, and I don’t either. I feel like the people doing them do them to amuse themself and to show off to others (incidentally, strangers) how clever they are. Useful? Not really. Single sentence posts are usually really bad, especially those without capitalization or punctuation. It’s annoying to read stuff devoid of insight. I feel dumber for having read it.

yeah I know when I research a job I read threads about exes  that's where you get the info you really need what are some examples of posts you've made that help out the job hunters in Korea   

BTW, I absolutely post to amuse myself.  This is not the job discussion forum.  There's one of those for that if you were looking.  Just to be clear the last two posts you've made criticizing useless posts have ironically been useless in their own right. 

Now, can we get back to exes and urine related song play, please?
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: CO2 on August 20, 2021, 03:31:06 pm
Is it safe to assume that L I isn't universally loved and revered? And maybe has a bit of a saviour complex?

I don't care about US Politics so I didn't go in the Trump Megathread.

It's a bit of banter, mate. Relax. We're not here collectively to publish a psych paper on the effects of exes on our behaviour.

Chill.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Aristocrat on August 20, 2021, 03:35:59 pm
You seem to have these preconceptions for relationships between men and women that are childish and not based on practical world experiences. 

Wrong, they are not based on YOUR "practical world experiences".

It's like something out of a comic book or B movie when the ancient mystic appears to the young man in a peyote fueled vision and tells him the rules for being a man. 
You seem to have these defined roles for you and your wife from the outset, instead of an organically and naturally evolving relationship.

Again, not your experiences. My wife and I share the same Religious beliefs. We entered marriage knowing exactly what our roles and responsibilities would be.
What you call "organically and naturally evolving", I call unnecessary drama. All successful marriages share eventually figure out the same truths
through years of drama and trial and error. I don't have that problem, we had the blueprint from day 1 and we do our best to follow it. Ultimately, my success rate is going to be
a hell of a lot higher than your "wing it" approach.

It's a bitch of a man that goes to others about problems he's having with his wife?  Sounds like rules that were drawn up by the Macho Man's Club, made up exclusively of dudes that are single.  It can be very healthy, therapeutic and enlightening to discuss concerns with other people that also have experience.  Sometimes, it can lead to understanding something is just a bump in the road and lead to better resolutions. 

Find me a wife or husband that appreciates you badmouthing them and discussing your personal marriage problems to your friends, family or ex.... I'll wait.

If you can't talk to your wife about a problem then... you have a bigger problem.

As far as maintaining friendships with previous partners, a real man is capable of judging things on a case by case basis.  Much of what we got from a previous partner we get from our new partner and vice versa so the interest in meeting up evaporates.  I used to still meet up with the girl I dated for three years of university.  When she ended up working at the same law firm.... we had lunch... she touched my arm... we giggled like we did back when we were kids

Please spare me. If you're going to make a point make the damn point because I'm really not interested in your convoluted stories of past relationships.

You sound as if you ran into your ex and had a coffee you would have to go home and explain that "Wife, I have broken the rules of Man.  I saw old wife today and we caught up.  I have wronged you.  No, you do not need to react as the rules of the Elders specify my punishment.  I will do the dishes for a week and watch Friends every night at nine.  I will also not tell you my sprint times for a period not exceeding seven days.  Sorry, Wife. "

If I ran into my ex I would exchange pleasantries, wish them well and NOT have a coffee thus keeping the hypothetical conversation I'd have with my wife hypothetical. 

It just sounds like you're a guy with limited experience in long term relationships telling everyone here how they should behave based on your current set up.  For me, your viewpoint lacks authority. But if it works for you and your culture, awesome!

Your long term relationships didn't work, mine did. I think I'm better at this than you.

There's no other term to use, but liberal, Western white people from dozens of broken relationships giving advice to other white people going through another relationship is like the blind leading the blind. Perhaps considering or learning just one thing from Muslim, Traditional Asian, Orthodox Jewish or Indian people's approach to marriage and relationships might be worth considering... That is, if you can set aside your ego and entertain the idea that marriage has been done by billions of people before you over thousands of years and that these cultures might might
have a better idea of how to approach marriage than you.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: OnNut81 on August 20, 2021, 03:54:03 pm
Wrong, they are not based on YOUR "practical world experiences".

Again, not your experiences. My wife and I share the same Religious beliefs. We entered marriage knowing exactly what our roles and responsibilities would be.
What you call "organically and naturally evolving", I call unnecessary drama. All successful marriages share eventually figure out the same truths
through years of drama and trial and error. I don't have that problem, we had the blueprint from day 1 and we do our best to follow it. Ultimately, my success rate is going to be
a hell of a lot higher than your "wing it" approach.

Find me a wife or husband that appreciates you badmouthing them and discussing your personal marriage problems to your friends, family or ex.... I'll wait.

If you can't talk to your wife about a problem then... you have a bigger problem.

Please spare me. If you're going to make a point make the damn point because I'm really not interested in your convoluted stories of past relationships.

If I ran into my ex I would exchange pleasantries, wish them well and NOT have a coffee thus keeping the hypothetical conversation I'd have with my wife hypothetical. 

Your long term relationships didn't work, mine did. I think I'm better at this than you.

There's no other term to use, but liberal, Western white people from dozens of broken relationships giving advice to other white people going through another relationship is like the blind leading the blind. Perhaps considering or learning just one thing from Muslim, Traditional Asian, Orthodox Jewish or Indian people's approach to marriage and relationships might be worth considering... That is, if you can set aside your ego and entertain the idea that marriage has been done by billions of people before you over thousands of years and that these cultures might might
have a better idea of how to approach marriage than you.

Alright, well at least we cleared the air about you pretending not to be looking down at other's approaches.  I didn't mean to wound you that much. Run it off, man.  I'm in a long term relationship now and I am happy I've been in all the relationships I've been in.  You do understand that claiming you're better at relationships than me is completely subjective and arrogant, while at the same time you try to and chastise me for thinking my way is the right way.  That's called being a hypocrite.

And as for the "white people" thing...by your own admission you had never seen a car turn right on a red before you came to South Korea and were astounded at this.  That tells me that you clearly had not travelled to any of the western "white" countries that you seem to be an authority on.  Tell me how you arrived at these conclusions about "white" relationships in the western world.  Go ahead, I'll wait.  (Not really, I'm going to the gym.  Would you like me to let you know my rep and set count on Monday?) 

As for meeting up with my ex, if you have a legitimate counter point why did you change my words?  I wrote " I used to still meet up with the girl I dated for three years of university.  When she ended up working at the same law firm I was at after we broke up, we used to go out to lunch regularly in a group and had lots of laughs."  Why did you change it in your rebuttal to " we had lunch... she touched my arm... we giggled like we did back when we were kids?"  The fact you felt the need to take the time and effort to misquote me tells me you're interested in reading EVERY word I wrote.  Clearly, the fact that I pointed out you have a lack of serious relationship experience, and as a result are not the person to be criticizing others or offering advice has touched a nerve.   At work we were able to function enjoyably in a group of employees.  If you're unable to control yourself around an ex, you definitely shouldn't be around them.  That requires maturity you obviously don't yet have. 
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Aristocrat on August 20, 2021, 05:01:51 pm

And as for the "white people" thing...by your own admission you had never seen a car turn right on a red before you came to South Korea and were astounded at this.  That tells me that you clearly had not travelled to any of the western "white" countries that you seem to be an authority on.  Tell me how you arrived at these conclusions about "white" relationships in the western world.  Go ahead, I'll wait.  (Not really, I'm going to the gym.  Would you like me to let you know my rep and set count on Monday?) 


The entire commonwealth drives on the left, meaning we don't turn right on a red. This includes Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and the UK. White enough for you, you complete chop!
The title of the thread was WTF moments, not "Things I never knew".

I grew up in South Africa, where, believe it or not, white people are a thing and, on a cultural level, is generally a Western nation. I'm sure Dmart or any other person with Asian, Middle-Eastern or
even African heritage will affirm that, on a general level, there's a certain level of cluelessness about non-Western cultures that many white people tend to have.

I didn't bother to read, let alone respond, to that long drivel you wrote about your ex because it doesn't apply to anything. It's your anecdotal accounts, I wrote about my general beliefs, not
personal stories because: a.) it's anecdotal and can't be applied to the situation of others and b.) it's none of anyone's business, even on an anonymous forum.

Sometimes sh*t happens because you put yourself in that position. I don't socialise (learn to read, socialise is a coffee with your ex during your free time, not a meeting with her at work to discuss last week's reports) with my ex because it's completely unnecessary
and unlike you, I think of more than what I want to do. If your wife says she's cool with you meeting with your ex for lunch then clearly there's more than one thing you're completely clueless about. 
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: CO2 on August 20, 2021, 05:05:52 pm
Canada is Commonwealth. We drive on the right and make rights on red lights, should it be safe to do so.

For more Fun Canadian Facts text "EHBUD" to 1867-11-11
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Kurt Sorensen on August 20, 2021, 05:07:52 pm
Li and Hangook seem convinced they keep reaching a wider audience with their respective Stossel videos and China Job recruitment.  You're just telling the same people the same thing guys.

Li's posts remind me of 'Foreverparadise' and his rinse and repeat, but with better sentence structure and more videos.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Kurt Sorensen on August 20, 2021, 05:12:05 pm
The entire commonwealth drives on the left, meaning we don't turn right on a red. This includes Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and the UK. White enough for you, you complete chop! 

Sorry Bro! NZ's pretty brown. 8) 8)
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: CO2 on August 20, 2021, 05:14:12 pm
Thank you for subscribing to Fun Canadian Facts!

Aug 20 Fact

Did you know that through more ice hockey and a healthier diet (cut back on those Maple Cookies™, Justin!), that you too can shed those pounds?

"So what?" you say. Well, this can result in a lessening of the symptoms from Covid 19!

"But I live in China," you say. Well, don't worry! You'll have way more money as a teacher there so you'll be able to afford good medical care!

To unsubscrive text IWANTOFFCO2WILDRIDE to ****-18-27
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Liechtenstein on August 20, 2021, 05:31:37 pm
I'm not sure Muslims have a great view on marriage. Not convinced any Western woman would trade places.

I really do not understand why Aristocrat is so vehemently opposed to keeping in touch with an ex and can't seem to understand that friends bitch about their spouses with friends. I find it odd that he only complains about his wife, to his wife. That's weird.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Aristocrat on August 20, 2021, 06:09:45 pm
I'm not sure Muslims have a great view on marriage. Not convinced any Western woman would trade places.

I really do not understand why Aristocrat is so vehemently opposed to keeping in touch with an ex and can't seem to understand that friends bitch about their spouses with friends. I find it odd that he only complains about his wife, to his wife. That's weird.

Muslims don't have a great view on marriage??? You're saying we don't like marriage? I'm confused.
My wife's a western woman, so are all her married Muslim female friends and every other Muslim woman born in SA.

I've explained my views on why I don't believe in maintaining a social relationship with an ex. If you can't at least understand the reasoning then you're pretty closed-minded.
I disagree with your views, but being a Westerner I completely understand your reasoning.

I'm well aware of the popular narrative of complaining about your wife to your friends. While many Muslims still do it, Islamically, you're supposed to keep your trap shut.

My wife and I sit down and talk about our problems, weird, right?
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on August 21, 2021, 01:03:58 am
If you're unable to control yourself around an ex, you definitely shouldn't be around them.  That requires maturity you obviously don't yet have. 
Individually, some people can control themselves. On a systemic level, that control rate is likely not the greatest. The rules Aristocrat discusses came about as a systemic approach for a society, not for an individual. It's like putting alcohol around a mix of people- You're going to get a whole bunch of results and not everyone is going to be that controlled.

Now the question is, do we want to take the safer approach that perhaps has less chance of some sort of added happiness or do you want to take the riskier approach? That's for each person to decide, but I'd say with something like marriage, particularly where things like the health and well-being of children being raised is potentially on the line, or even things like say, 25-50% of your income for some massive duration of your life, it might be better to let things go than to take that risk.

Everyone believes that they'll be fine with their ex and nothing will happen. Do you think everyone was successful in that outcome?

As I said earlier, if you look at traditional marriage practitioners (*who support and believe in those practices), they likely demonstrate better risk-reward decision making processes, impulse control, financial stability, and make better long-term decisions.

This whole "Still get along with your ex" likely would reflect that on average. Again, not saying there aren't exceptions, but we are talking averages.

Quote
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on August 21, 2021, 01:27:37 am
There's no other term to use, but liberal, Western white people from dozens of broken relationships giving advice to other white people going through another relationship is like the blind leading the blind. Perhaps considering or learning just one thing from Muslim, Traditional Asian, Orthodox Jewish or Indian people's approach to marriage and relationships might be worth considering...
This. It's easy for those of us with a Western liberal mindset to see the potential problems in such marriages. We know all the stereotypes and stories. How many of us are good at looking at our own beliefs?

Because, let me tell all of you- We do NOT look good to the rest of the world. As easy as it is for us to see their problems, it is just as easy (if not easier) for them to see OUR problems. And seriously, marriage in the West has turned into a major problem.

I grew up in South Africa, where, believe it or not, white people are a thing and, on a cultural level, is generally a Western nation. I'm sure Dmart or any other person with Asian, Middle-Eastern or
even African heritage will affirm that, on a general level, there's a certain level of cluelessness about non-Western cultures that many white people tend to have.
Again, this. The level of ignorance people in the West have regarding other cultures, even among those who are "cultured" and travel is staggering.

Now as for me personally, growing up with white Western parents, in a diverse community and being of another ethnicity myself, I was able to see a lot of different perspectives. Usually people in different cultures have if not a good reason, at least A reason for doing what they do. And sometimes, shocker, their practices can be better than ours.

Now, my parents while not religious, in many ways have a very traditional marriage. They have never gotten divorced, I've never seen any outrageous arguments between them, almost no public displays of affection, they have MANY interests in common, they also know how to give themselves alone time, I've never heard them discuss anyone before they met, they both have an EXTREMELY dim view of adultery and divorce, they are very financially stable and successful, they do not make impulsive decisions, they do not have problems with addiction or abuse or a bunch of other things I have seen or heard from in many other families, and they also come from stable families that stayed together their whole lives. They share similar views on how important happiness vs. responsibility is, the role of money, the nature of the universe, the way children should be raised, and so on. Most in their circle of friends and our family (one "party first" uncle being the exception) were similarly reserved and more wholesome than hedonistic.

Again, I'd say that their attitudes and many "traditional" attitudes were often common in the West until recently.

So, if I have to choose between the examples I've seen in my life, because a fair number of my friends have tried the "get along with the ex" thing, many to negative results (and a fair number of divorces already), I have to say, that I'd go with traditional. Sure, maybe you can beat the odds, and traditional is no guarantee, but there's a reason the odds are against you.

=========================================================================================================================

(Not addressed to Aristocrat)

Seriously, what is the purpose of marriage? What does it really mean to you? Are you marrying with a vision of that person in their 70s in your mind? If you're not at least in part, you probably aren't really ready for marriage and really understanding it. Are you picturing taking care of them if they face serious or even, God forbid, terminal illness? Or even worse- long term crippling, disfiguring, costly illness. If you're not, you aren't ready for marriage and you really don't get what marriage is about.

Finding someone willing to stick with you to those points is not easy these days. And if you are lucky enough to, they deserve your utmost respect, and frankly having fun with an ex isn't worth risking that. If you are willing to risk that level of commitment for some fun coffee or brunches and reminiscing about old times and risk hurting the feelings of the person willing to commit to you like that, you really aren't thinking marriage through. Yes, you get the odd case where somehow all three people are cool, but very often one person is jealous and that suspicion and doubt lasts forever. And usually once those doubts start, they don't stop.

Finally, this isn't some test. There's nothing to prove regarding your self-control. This isn't about trying to look cool in your friend circle because you have that sitcom-style relationship with your ex. This is about who you value most and your commitment to them and being honest with yourself about why you're doing the things you're doing.

Marriage is serious. It deserves to be treated as such.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on August 21, 2021, 01:34:06 am
I'm not sure Muslims have a great view on marriage. Not convinced any Western woman would trade places.
I think most people of traditional background, regardless of faith or culture, would probably side more with the Islamic view than the hedonistic liberal one.

Again, I don't think people realize just how bad our marriages look to the rest of the world. You have people jeopardizing the mental health of their children just because they want to f*ck someone else. Or they look old. Or they aren't making enough money. Can you believe that shit? That's just such a trash perspective. Giving up after two years because someone wants to do something that the other doesn't like for 4 hours out of the week and suddenly "They don't understand me. Our differences are irreconcilable." Millions of people unable to make long-term relationships work because of 15 years previous of a revolving door of dating. Like, wtf is wrong with us? Seriously, we have no business lecturing Muslims or anyone else on marriage.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: grimlock2 on August 21, 2021, 10:18:02 am
It's funny the way you caring, liberal intellectual types are quite happy to criticize white marriage culture, while  sidestepping the elephant in the room. (hint, 70% illegitimacy rate) . If  some right wing Republican came on here talking about black marriage culture and crime rates, you'd be the first to call him a wacist and claim there's no connection.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Aristocrat on August 21, 2021, 11:08:28 am
I think most people of traditional background, regardless of faith or culture, would probably side more with the Islamic view than the hedonistic liberal one.

Again, I don't think people realize just how bad our marriages look to the rest of the world. You have people jeopardizing the mental health of their children just because they want to f*ck someone else. Or they look old. Or they aren't making enough money. Can you believe that shit? That's just such a trash perspective. Giving up after two years because someone wants to do something that the other doesn't like for 4 hours out of the week and suddenly "They don't understand me. Our differences are irreconcilable." Millions of people unable to make long-term relationships work because of 15 years previous of a revolving door of dating. Like, wtf is wrong with us? Seriously, we have no business lecturing Muslims or anyone else on marriage.

This man gets it.

A Korean, Pakistani, Indian, Nigerian etc. person with a more traditional mindset is going to struggle to understand the liberal, hedonistic western approach and view to dating, relationships and marriage.
Someone of non-Western heritage raised in a western country is likely going to have a good understanding of both perspectives. If they talk, listen.

From a non-western perspective the hedonistic, liberal perspective looks like 2 selfish teenagers fighting and arguing as they try to emulate the caricature of relationships they grew up watching on sitcoms and soap operas. 

As Dmart said, marriage is very serious and just like any serious undertaking, you absolutely need a plan. Koreans, Indians, Buddhists, Jews, Christians, Muslims etc. we all have a plan, guide or strategy. The liberal, western approach's
plan is... get this.... your emotions. Every relationship or marriage contract (yes, its' first an foremost a contract)  is supposed to be guided by those fickle, temperamental and selfish things we call feelings and emotions.
Liberal westerners have no plan because they were raised with no plan. 2 people governed by their feelings and emotions getting married and that's supposed to be how it's done? The couple with a strong cultural and/or Religious foundation
are the crazy ones because they're humble enough to accept that them being a pair of 27yr old pissants, they have no clue what they're getting into and could use some guidance.

I some people are simply afraid of being thought of as traditional and (backward) that you'd be willing to shoot yourself in the foot just so you can flex their perceived agency. Go hang with the Goth Kids from South Park.

BTW, my wife read some of this thread and she thinks most of you have no clue how women really think.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on August 22, 2021, 10:02:30 am
It's funny the way you caring, liberal intellectual types are quite happy to criticize white marriage culture, while  sidestepping the elephant in the room. (hint, 70% illegitimacy rate) . If  some right wing Republican came on here talking about black marriage culture and crime rates, you'd be the first to call him a wacist and claim there's no connection.
Uhh...the two main critics in this thread aren't white and at least when it comes to the topic, aren't very liberal (although in other ways I'm liberal about it- Let whomever or how many get married for consenting adults, if people don't want to do legal marriage whatever) but if you are going to do it, there is a way to go about it and the liberal one is NOT it. 

I don't think you'd get much disagreement with conservatives on this issue. Evangelicals and conservative Catholics don't consider themselves part of what Aristocrat has termed "white liberal marriage culture". They have similar disgust at the sitcom values and rampant adultery that seems to be pushed about and similarly dim views of divorce.

Heck, even some in liberal circles have started to change their views. Especially as people get older and perhaps experienced a failed marriage, they've come to realize that the modern dating and marriage culture is not producing good outcomes and is not really preparing people for marriage.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Liechtenstein on August 22, 2021, 10:49:48 am
Just got off a 45 minute chat with the ex and my wife. Got caught up on all the news back in Canada, how the ex-in laws are doing. Everything is as expected with the virus thing.

People who don't get this are missing something.

People who let their lives be controlled by dogma are missing something too.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on August 22, 2021, 11:05:02 am
I am of the opinion that "If you don't get/do (insert X thing I get/do), then you are missing something" is one of the more meaningless takes out there.

I guess in some sense it's true, I mean I'm sure I'm missing out on something by not knowing how to windsurf, but this applies to everyone because there is so much out there. Everyone is missing something by that "logic".

I really don't see any tremendous benefit being added, well, unless uh...well...hehe... The point is that it's def higher risk for something that might be rewarding kind of?
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Liechtenstein on August 22, 2021, 11:17:45 am
I am of the opinion that "If you don't get/do (insert X thing I get/do), then you are missing something" is one of the more meaningless takes out there.

I guess in some sense it's true, I mean I'm sure I'm missing out on something by not knowing how to windsurf, but this applies to everyone because there is so much out there. Everyone is missing something by that "logic".

I really don't see any tremendous benefit being added, well, unless uh...well...hehe... The point is that it's def higher risk for something that might be rewarding kind of?

What is this risk you keep going on about? Risk of what? Friendship? Or are you just so weak that being friends with an ex means you must jump into bed with them? I don't get it.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Aristocrat on August 22, 2021, 12:55:38 pm
Just got off a 45 minute chat with the ex and my wife. Got caught up on all the news back in Canada, how the ex-in laws are doing. Everything is as expected with the virus thing.

People who don't get this are missing something.

People who let their lives be controlled by dogma are missing something too.

I'll say it again, you have a VERY difficult time seeing things from a different perspective, which isn't the same as being opinionated.

Your life seems to be quite unconventional and you have a different outlook (congratulations) to most. This "dogma" is to help people who want a marriage that lasts a lifetime, are probably looking to have a raise kids who will be successful and aren't looking for drama. It's not going to be of much use to someone who is proud of the fact that he can bushwhack through the jungle for days on end without telling his wife. You also don't seem to be interested in having children, so you've got a bit more room to be selfish. Your wife seems to be an exceptional woman as she invites and befriends your ex into your home. I'm no expert on woman, but I'd say she's definitely the exception.

The vast majority of men and women, whether they're willing to admit it or not, DO NOT want their partners to socialise with their ex beyond what is necessary (the ex and the spouse share children, for example). You probably don't understand this because you're the same as another white friend of mine who visited my place; I greeted him when he came in and when my wife tried to greet him with a wave, he moved in for a hug. She immediately backed away and he felt hurt, obviously under the assumption that everyone hugs when greeting. During a tour of our place, he took the liberty of opening our bedroom door to have a look. The two of you are completely clueless to cultures outside your own.

I hope you don't mind me discussing your life, but you brought up personal examples if it makes you uncomfortable I'll stop.

TO get away from the personal, I'd like to focus on this hedonistic Western mindset to marriage in general and why it's such a problem.

When you're a Muslim, or hold strongly to any other Faith and/or you live by strong cultural values that many describe as, for lack of a better word, traditional, what you deal with on a regular basis is criticism against your beliefs.

The critics usually uses words like "dogmatic", "backward", "medieval", "archaic", "oppressive",  "mindless" etc.
Beyond that, the criticism is actually quite shallow. People never properly articulate why a traditional Religious or cultural approach to something like marriage is bad other than be conjuring up stereotypes and terms used above.

Most worryingly, in the West there's an almost perverse obsession with choice (which you and onetesticle have shown), which is typically associate with "freedom". Give one of these westerners a hammer to knock in a nail and he'll be upset that you enforced your dogma on him, by oppressing him with the traditional stereotype of a hammer being used to knock in nails. No, he wants to use the rubber chicken for the job because it's his right to choose. Tell them to wear a freakin' mask to protect themselves and others from contracting a virus and they'll cry and protest that they're being oppressed by the government and you're robbing them of their choice. You criticised the more traditional approach to marriage, which defines the roles of husband and wife, for simply being 'dogmatic'. Dogmatic refers to laying down a principal of something that is arbitrarily true, there's reason for the traditional approaches discussed (You don't socialise with your ex because you're retarding both of your abilities to find new love and out of respect to your current spouse). That seems quite logical to me, it's not the same as saying "Don't see your ex because someone says so."

.... this obsession with choice has become so ridiculously idiotic.

You get methods for how to eat, how to swim, how to cook, why not how to live? We call it a lifestyle. The difference between us is that I've accepted that there is a carefully constructed lifestyle approach which is I believe is best. You use feelings and emotions.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: grimlock2 on August 22, 2021, 01:55:15 pm
Yes most people in the West think freedom is pretty important. Freedom to chhose to live your life in a religious or traditional way or not. You don't agree people should be able to make that decision themselves?
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: VanIslander on August 22, 2021, 02:03:33 pm
There's nothing wrong with that music. But all too often I meet people in their 50s who think the only good music was made when they were 16-24 year olds...
1985 to 1993? ... Gawd no. People my age skew older or much younger in our musical tastes. For example, the top single in 1986 was the f****** macarena! And in 1992 it was Whitney Houston. I grew up with garbage.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on August 22, 2021, 02:58:35 pm
What is this risk you keep going on about? Risk of what? Friendship? Or are you just so weak that being friends with an ex means you must jump into bed with them? I don't get it.
Namely the risk that one's SO gets jealous about it one day or when they find out and this spirals into legal bills and divorce as it tends to do. Have people beaten the odds? Sure. Do you know you will when it starts? Not at all.

The halls of family court and filled with people who thought they could still be friends with their ex and it would be no big deal.

Seriously, if I was a divorce lawyer or in marriage counseling, I would encourage everyone to be friends with their ex , that no one can tell them what to do, that such rules make no sense, and if your partner objects they're just being insecure and you have every right to pursue happiness. I would shout this from the rooftops. I'd hope some app was made just so exes could be friends  and if I lived in Hollywood, I would pay some writer 30k to write it into their script and make it look funny and happy.

The great thing is if people listen to me, they tend to be repeat clients. I can't wait for people to hand me 5-20% of their worth they've taken years to gather while they bicker over the rest, all because they thought it would be great to see their ex for brunch or spend 2 hours together at some hotel.

The last thing I'd do? Encourage people to follow traditions, rules, and not give into urges and impulses. Those things would be a drag on my business.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on August 22, 2021, 03:11:58 pm
Yes most people in the West think freedom is pretty important. Freedom to chhose to live your life in a religious or traditional way or not. You don't agree people should be able to make that decision themselves?
No one says they shouldn't be free. Just that the "free" choice isn't necessarily the best choice.

- While Aristocrat has termed this Western, which is partially true, I'd say it's modern Western, because traditional Western cultures view things similarly and these views exist in large swaths of the Western world, particularly amongst any religious communities that persist.
- A lot of people do things against tradition not because it makes sense to, but out of sheer reflexive opposition.
-The people that do things simply to be a "rebel" have a strong tendency to blame others when their acts of rebellion cause harm to themselves or others
- Many people confuse negative freedoms with "what you are now free to do is good and should be done". For example, Being free to smoke marijuana does not in turn mean it is good to smoke marijuana or you should start doing so. Being free to have an adulterous relationship does not mean you should. Being free to see your ex (and no one is saying it shouldn't be free, just that it is considered wrong under whatever rules/structure traditionalists abide by)does not in turn make it a good idea to do so. It's the understanding that you shouldn't be punished for it, NOT that it is the best thing to do.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: grimlock2 on August 22, 2021, 03:48:47 pm
Yeah, if people are allowed their freedom, they often make bad choices. Thanks for clearing that up.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Aristocrat on August 22, 2021, 04:09:03 pm
Yes most people in the West think freedom is pretty important. Freedom to chhose to live your life in a religious or traditional way or not. You don't agree people should be able to make that decision themselves?

No, the people in the West who I'm talking about don't seem to understand what Freedom or Liberty are or mean.
I'm one the staunchest supporters of Liberty and Freedom, but this isn't about that.

If you paid a personal trainer to create a plan for you to achieve a certain physique within a certain timeframe, that plan will include telling you what you should do and eat.
You've made the decision to submit to their authority and knowledge and to make use of it. They're not robbing you of your freedom as you've paid them to make certain
decisions for you. So, you can either be a "free" dumbass who wasted his money on a personal trainer by eating and doing what he felt like or you can make use of or
you can use your brain to learn and improve.

A Religion or culture is exactly the same, a collection or arrangement of beliefs governing a broader focus and you've decided to live your life according to these
beliefs because you believe it's the correct path.

Contemporary Western culture clings to the stereotype that all of these 'traditional' beliefs have strict and random rules that you need to follow just because.
At least regarding Islam, which governs how I approach marriage among everything else, there's a reason for EVERYTHING, nothing is arbitrary. I can argue the reason
for everything from why I don't socialise with my exes to why I enter the bathroom with my left foot. I'm sure plenty of other Religions and cultures have good reasons for their teachings.
Many contemporary Western beliefs simply cannot be rationally explained, they're just loose conventions, which typically have their source in entertainment based television.

What makes you think people who follow a religious or cultural belief aren't doing so because they choose to?

If I told you to build a car from scratch would you study mechanical engineering? Read up on the mechanics of an internal combustion engine? Take up a welding course? Enlist the help of some mechanics, or ignore
all previous knowledge and skills you don't possess and "make all the decisions yourself"?
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: L I on August 22, 2021, 07:53:11 pm
BTW, I absolutely post to amuse myself.

Posting to amuse oneself without consideration for the broader audience is rude. Would you make noise in a library? Throw trash on the ground?
___________________ ___________________ ___________________ ___________________ ___________________ ___________________ ___________________ ___________________ __

i really wish this was a better place for new members or quieter members to participate.  it would be freshing and beneficial to hear new voices, opinions, and points of view, but i can totally understand why they don't say much.

i think it was co4, stoat, and onnut that mentioned how most threads are just tired memes and corny attempts at starting a pun-train. i agree 100% with them.

co2 desperately trying too hard to be popular and funny. first - is it possible for you to make a post without somehow trying to wedge in YOUR GIRLFRIEND AND HER DAUGHTER? it is exhausting trying to read a thread and having to scroll past your 6th...and 7th...and 8th meme or the lame way you try and turn EVERYTHING into a pun or play on words. bro - sometimes people just wanna have a real back and forth conversation without all the immature nonsense and distractions. it's ok if every conversation doesn't include or revolve around you. just because people don't tell you you're annoying, doesn't mean you aren't. please quit trying to be the mayor of this website.

Hilarious and accurate.  Apancoe gets it's quality not quantity.  There are a select few who have decided they're the gatekeepers here and tend to kill the threads by over posting.  Moderation is key here.  Some people don't get the website is supposed to be for the room as opposed to a private inside conversation between a few posters.  Definitely suck the life out of a number of threads they don't need to do that sh*t in.  Keep it for the random thought themed threads fellas.  If you want to have a running conversation there is that other website where you can do that.

Yeah, none of the punny group is doing anything malicious and aren't a-holes, so you just have to hope they catch on and police themselves.  Can't be warned for over posting.  Most people aren't intimidated.  It just gets boring.  Bantering a lot doesn't mean you're good at bantering. 

I see the party a little differently than CO2.  I see it as a party where people are mingling and enjoying their conversations but then that one group of people who find themselves hilarious show up and talk extra loud because they want people to overhear them, but other people find them annoying and either leave the party or snap and say "Shut the f*ck up, no one gives a sh*T."  That's how I see Apancoe's post today.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: CO2 on August 22, 2021, 09:35:36 pm
Ah yes, apancoe. The guy we never hear from and then suddenly gives everyone a good shellaquing.

If this were a party, he'd be the guy in the corner that no one notices that suddenly says we're all philistines and then leaves and slams the door.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: JNM on August 22, 2021, 10:35:15 pm
Ah yes, apancoe. The guy we never hear from and then suddenly gives everyone a good shellaquing.

If this were a party, he'd be the guy in the corner that no one notices that suddenly says we're all philistines and then leaves and slams the door.


Quoting as evidence that it is possible to have no "GF & kid" references in a CO2 post.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: OnNut81 on August 23, 2021, 07:35:51 am
Posting to amuse oneself without consideration for the broader audience is rude. Would you make noise in a library? Throw trash on the ground?
___________________ ___________________ ___________________ ___________________ ___________________ ___________________ ___________________ ___________________ __


Those don't equate whatsoever. 

Try this.  Someone in a library keeps tapping on their desk with a pencil and keeps drumming out the same tuneless beat again and again and again.  Other patrons at the library ask them to be quiet and stop but that just makes them do it more.  It's like someone on waygook.org that keeps posting the same Bill Maher and John Stossel videos over and over but when people say they don't like them it just makes that poster do it more often.  How rude!
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: L I on August 23, 2021, 08:05:32 am
The people complaining about that are rude nerds who themselves rarely make a good post. People making inane writing complaining about a concise insightful video directly related to the discussion. Seems ironic. And ignorable. Pretty sure most don’t enjoy reading immature nonsense. Well,  they shouldn’t at least.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: CO2 on August 23, 2021, 08:07:37 am
Pretty sure most don’t enjoy reading immature nonsense.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbKRTuDWAAEggb7.jpg)

Have you seen mainstream comedy lately?

Also, Aunty Donna's Big Ol' House of Fun
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: OnNut81 on August 23, 2021, 08:11:13 am
The people complaining about that are rude nerds who themselves rarely make a good post. People making inane writing complaining about a concise insightful video directly related to the discussion. Seems ironic. And ignorable. Pretty sure most don’t enjoy reading immature nonsense. Well,  they shouldn’t at least.

Yeah, I don't think you've read the room here.  For most people this site is a time killer and a way to shoot the sh*t.  This thread is a perfect example.  It's a topic that has no clear answer because we all deal with relationships and exes in different ways, yet it became a five page rambling, largely pointless discussion. 
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: L I on August 23, 2021, 08:16:59 am
My point is that forum readers don’t enjoy pun trains, which is what you and the above poster were doing. You: “Hey, we’re just here to kill time.”

The problem is just killing time without a filter / without consideration for the readers degrades the quality of the forums.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: OnNut81 on August 23, 2021, 08:33:33 am
My point is that forum readers don’t enjoy pun trains, which is what you and the above poster were doing. You: “Hey, we’re just here to kill time.”

The problem is just killing time without a filter / without consideration for the readers degrades the quality of the forums.

I don't do that.  I generally have a point and have more than once derided the old pun runs.  What sparks anyone, normally, to write something is that they themselves find it interesting or amusing and the expectation is someone else will pick it up and go.  What you do is purposely antagonize a number of posters knowing they are sick and tired of the SAME Stossel and Maher videos being linked.  You just seem to do it more when it's pointed out.  So, run it by me how doing that shows consideration for the readers and the quality of the forums?  People have made it clear they don't think your repeated links adds quality to the forum.  You're only doing it for yourself. 
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: L I on August 23, 2021, 09:11:32 am
Only some people have said that. People who themselves make poor quality posts and then declare to all they’ve never watched a video link and never will. They’re antagonized by the presence of a link they don’t click? Seems rather petty. I post for a broader audience, not just a couple of haters.
___________________ ___________________ ____

Those videos ain’t in this thread. But your pun run is.

“The word peon reminds me of R Kelly peeing on someone.”

“Here’s the song Yellow because pee is yellow.”

That’s gross and immature.
___________________ __________

Well, I’ve said my piece. Gonna log out for a while and get some work done rather than continue arguing until the end of time.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Adel on August 23, 2021, 09:20:25 am
Quote
Quote from: tylerthegloob on May 28, 2021, 11:40:56 am
man do i really ****** hate bill maher

Quote from: gogators! on May 28, 2021, 08:13:28 pm
Agreed.

Quote from: waygo0k on May 28, 2021, 02:27:52 pm
I say this with the utmost sincerity in my heart - FCUK Bill Maher and his pseudo-cool bullshit.

Quote from: Aristocrat on May 31, 2021, 08:43:41 am
Bill Maher isn't a "straight shooter", he oversimplifies things to be entertaining so more people can agree with him and watch his show. People like him know exactly how to pander to his target audience, frustrated, western white men.

Quote from: 745sticky on May 31, 2021, 11:17:44 am
hes an idiot who acts like an asshole and gives lukewarm dumbed down takes to satisfy his boomer audience.


Do you have any evidence from this board of this broad audience that you say those relentless Maher and Stossel posts are  actually appealing to? :rolleyes:
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: OnNut81 on August 23, 2021, 09:20:27 am
Only some people have said that. People who themselves make poor quality posts and then declare to all they’ve never watched a video link and never will. They’re antagonized by the presence of a link they don’t click? Seems rather petty. I post for a broader audience, not just a couple of haters.
___________________ ___________________ ____

Those videos ain’t in this thread. But your pun run is.

“The word peon reminds me of R Kelly peeing on someone.”

“Here’s the song Yellow because pee is yellow.”

That’s gross and immature.
___________________ __________

Well, I’ve said my piece. Gonna log out for a while and get some work done rather than continue arguing until the end of time.

Why did you make up those quotes?  Is that becoming a thing now?  First Aristocrat and now you?  You don't need to put in quotes something that you said, just things someone else said, if that helps.  If you think these forums have a much broader audience that you're posts are getting through to, you're mistaken.  You seem to take yourself seriously.  I suggest you'd be happier finding a more serious site.  This place will just frustrate you. 
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: caitlinn on August 23, 2021, 09:42:48 am
a women

representative emanuel cleaver moment
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: CO2 on August 23, 2021, 09:49:03 am
representative emanuel cleaver moment
He works in the capital............ ... you should work on your use of capitals, too.  :wink:
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: CO2 on August 23, 2021, 09:51:42 am
Ah, sorry, the post above could be construed as humour. All apologies. Let me fix that.

ATTN: Mme. caitlinn
It has come to my attention that you have started a sentence without capitalising the first word. This is grammatically incorrect.

Furthermore, you have used a proper name, in this case an American man's name, and capitalised neither his surname, nor given name.

Please reflect and correct.

Yours truly, CO2

PS: Together, we can beat anti-intellectualism and the dreaded scourge known as humour.

Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: D.L.Orean on August 23, 2021, 10:04:43 am
Ah, sorry, the post above could be construed as humour. All apologies. Let me fix that.

ATTN: Mme. caitlinn
It has come to my attention that you have started a sentence without capitalising the first word. This is grammatically incorrect.

Furthermore, you have used a proper name, in this case an American man's name, and capitalised neither his surname, nor given name.

Please reflect and correct.

Yours truly, CO2

PS: Together, we can beat anti-intellectualism and the dreaded scourge known as humour.

I applaud your efforts to raise the standards of this board. As we know, low quality posts turn away high quality posters. You have helped me learn and become a better person this morning. While I can only speak for myself when I say that, I am sure other posters share similar sentiments. Thank you for helping keep my brain sharp.

Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: caitlinn on August 23, 2021, 10:05:45 am
no  :smiley:
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Kyndo on August 23, 2021, 10:06:56 am
Ah, sorry, the post above could be construed as humour. All apologies. Let me fix that.

ATTN: Mme. caitlinn
It has come to my attention that you have started a sentence without capitalising the first word. This is grammatically incorrect.
Furthermore, you have used a proper name, in this case an American man's name, and capitalised neither his surname, nor given name.
Please reflect and correct.
Yours truly, CO2
PS: Together, we can beat anti-intellectualism and the dreaded scourge known as humour.
I applaud your efforts to raise the standards of this board. As we know, low quality posts turn away high quality posters. You have helped me learn and become a better person this morning. While I can only speak for myself when I say that, I am sure other posters share similar sentiments. Thank you for helping keep my brain sharp.

Here here!

Hear hear!

***Edit: I copy/pasted my original comment from one of CO2's earlier comments, hence the complete and utter mangling of the popular expression.
I know, I know: my actions were shockingly dumb -- I should've known better. Mea culpa etc.
 :wink:
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: CO2 on August 23, 2021, 10:08:13 am
I totally did that on purpose. hahaha

no  :smiley:

I like your attitude.

Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Liechtenstein on August 23, 2021, 10:30:38 am
My point is that forum readers don’t enjoy pun trains, which is what you and the above poster were doing. You: “Hey, we’re just here to kill time.”

The problem is just killing time without a filter / without consideration for the readers degrades the quality of the forums.

What are you expecting? Literary giants discussing gigantic literature?

My point is simple.

Is it possible to maintain a civil friendly relationship with an ex?   YES

Can everyone do it?   NO
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: CO2 on August 23, 2021, 10:57:49 am
I suppose to answer the question, I'll bite.

I was in Daegu 4 years ago and having some GalbiGym by myself. I get a FB message. BING!
It's some weird name. I look at the photo. Oh shit! It's my first GF! I hadn't seen her in............ 8 years?

But, we caught up a bit. I wasn't with anyone, literally and figuratively, as I was single at the time anyway, and it was nice. I'm in Korea, she's in Ontario so nothing is gonna go sideways. Just a bit of banter. "How you been, where are you now" kinda thing.

Enough time passes and everything mellows out. Unless they stabbed you or something, or there was some horrific transgression, it's easy just to be civil and catch up for a second. And we'd been together, in total, 5 years when we were young adults. Pretty formative times and we had meant an awful lot to each other. She was in SCOTLAND working at a golfcourse as Greenskeeper. Which is cool.

I also agree with Aristocrat to a degree. Not as adamant and inflexible, but I see where he's coming from. I'm NOT single anymore (gotta find a way to insert my GF into the chat. Did you know about her daughter?) so I wouldn't really be texting old flames/GFs.

If I knew my current GF was texting her exes even semi-regularly I would be hurt first, and then........... curious next. I'm pretty chill and trusting, I wouldn't immediately assume malice, but.............. why? In 90% of these situations they're not your friend. Like Lichtenstein said, you CAN and that's up to the (ex)couple in question, but most don't. If your ex is your only friend in your life you can shoot the shit with, you're doing it wrong. Find some FRIENDS.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on August 23, 2021, 10:57:51 am
Looking at social media and the internet, if there's one thing I can conclude, it's that people are not drawn to the following

-inane stuff
-bad grammar
-sophomoric content
-arguments and flaming
-shoddy arguments

I mean, anyplace such as twitter or facebook or youtube that posts such content is an internet slow zone. It's google scholar that's the hot place of the web!
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Kyndo on August 23, 2021, 11:53:05 am
I mean, anyplace such as twitter or facebook or youtube that posts such content is an internet slow zone. It's google scholar that's the hot place of the web!
We live in an imperfect world.  :sad:
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on August 23, 2021, 01:06:01 pm
Back on topic, I would say that contact with an ex might depend on friend/community group/relatives. If say, you're part of a small religious community or community organization where virtually everyone knows each other, then yes, you're going to have some sort of ongoing contact, be civil, and might even work or plan events or do things together. I mean, I'm sure Aristocrat has seen at least one time where a couple in his community broke up but were somehow unintentionally (or intentionally by family/friends in an effort to revive the relationship) put in a situation together and had to deal. You're still going to see each other at church or mosque or at the school newspaper or in math club or mock trial or the local Habitat for Humanity or whatever.

But "I wonder what so and so is up to these days (lustful thoughts). Lets check facebook" and five minutes later sending a DM, yeah that's pretty effed up and that's how a lot of those contacts go. There's something going on behind that reason for seeking them out and it's generally not to get their recipe for roasted potatoes and chicken.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Liechtenstein on August 23, 2021, 01:33:12 pm
Do people hang out on Facebook checking to see what other people are doing? I didn't know that.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: L I on September 02, 2021, 04:10:14 am
Do you have any evidence from this board of this broad audience that you say those relentless Maher and Stossel posts are  actually appealing to?

Yes.

Billy did a good job hitting out at the woke kids.

I like Stossel
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Adel on September 02, 2021, 04:37:31 am
Yes.


Crongrats, an audience of two if you include yourself.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: 745sticky on September 02, 2021, 08:27:54 am
since hangook is the only one who appreciates it how about you make use of the dm function and leave the rest of us out of it
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: hangook77 on September 02, 2021, 03:04:46 pm
since hangook is the only one who appreciates it how about you make use of the dm function and leave the rest of us out of it

How about you put the sticky up and leave me out of it?
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Liechtenstein on September 23, 2021, 03:34:57 pm
I was reading in bed a week ago or so and my wife was beside me on her phone. She was typing away then a little chuckle, then typing some more. This went on for 5-10 minutes till I finally asked what was going on. She was chatting with my ex-wife about life and our niece and what is going on.

Isn't that nice.

I chatted with my ex last weekend and I need some money put on my credit card to cover monthly withdrawals. But, due to a total lockdown here I can't make it to a bank or Western Union. So she said she'd cover the expenses for the next couple of months and we'd settle up later.

Isn't that nice.

Except for the haters of course............. .................

Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Aristocrat on September 23, 2021, 05:39:40 pm
I was reading in bed a week ago or so and my wife was beside me on her phone. She was typing away then a little chuckle, then typing some more. This went on for 5-10 minutes till I finally asked what was going on. She was chatting with my ex-wife about life and our niece and what is going on.

Isn't that nice.

I chatted with my ex last weekend and I need some money put on my credit card to cover monthly withdrawals. But, due to a total lockdown here I can't make it to a bank or Western Union. So she said she'd cover the expenses for the next couple of months and we'd settle up later.

Isn't that nice.

Except for the haters of course............. .................

^
This, ladies and gents, is how you really stick it to the man.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Liechtenstein on September 28, 2021, 02:51:46 pm
^
This, ladies and gents, is how you really stick it to the man.

And this is how you behave when you are a legitimately nice guy:

I was divorcing my wife after 14 years of marriage for something I bet not one of you here would be even remotely forgiving or nice about.

I was leaving Canada. My wife was starting a new job on a few days. We had 2 big dogs and a cat. We sat down, figured out our debts and credits over a bottle of wine or two. We were in the black, divided it and she'd pay me half and I'd sign over the house etc etc.

She didn't have that much cash. I didn't care. I trusted her. No lawyers. No legal papers. Just two people splitting up with tens of thousands on the line and our word of honour. She'd pay me when she could. I didn't need her to screw her life up, selling the house and all that nonsense.

I left. She paid me back. The divorce became final some time afterwards and we got drunk on Skype and laughed about the good times.

We still do.

This is what nice people do.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: theman3285 on September 28, 2021, 06:47:45 pm
for something I bet not one of you here would be even remotely forgiving or nice about.

Why you blue-balling us?
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: OnNut81 on September 28, 2021, 08:15:26 pm
Why you blue-balling us?

If you must know his ex-wife, when she was his wife, teleported herself into the future and had a fling with his current wife, who was not his wife at the time. 
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: gogators! on September 29, 2021, 12:08:31 am
To hit it or not hit it, that is the question.

Why not?

Obligatory music reference;
"I'm just an average guy
I like a little on the side"
Ray Parker Jr.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: JNM on September 29, 2021, 03:35:08 am
Quote
I was divorcing my wife after 14 years of marriage for something I bet not one of you here would be even remotely forgiving or nice about.

Well, if you divorced over it, I guess it wasn’t forgiven in your case either.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Aristocrat on September 29, 2021, 08:12:04 am
And this is how you behave when you are a legitimately nice guy:

I was divorcing my wife after 14 years of marriage for something I bet not one of you here would be even remotely forgiving or nice about.

I was leaving Canada. My wife was starting a new job on a few days. We had 2 big dogs and a cat. We sat down, figured out our debts and credits over a bottle of wine or two. We were in the black, divided it and she'd pay me half and I'd sign over the house etc etc.

She didn't have that much cash. I didn't care. I trusted her. No lawyers. No legal papers. Just two people splitting up with tens of thousands on the line and our word of honour. She'd pay me when she could. I didn't need her to screw her life up, selling the house and all that nonsense.

I left. She paid me back. The divorce became final some time afterwards and we got drunk on Skype and laughed about the good times.

We still do.

This is what nice people do.

You don't use personal anecdotes and experience when discussing issues on a societal scale. If we look at western society as a whole, unnecessary contact with an ex
isn't exactly making a good case for happier relationships. You think you're special, good for you.

All you've said is how amicable your divorce was and how you went about it.
So... your advice is how to end a relationship and mine is how to save one.

Both useful, I suppose.


Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Liechtenstein on October 01, 2021, 11:55:28 pm
Well, if you divorced over it, I guess it wasn’t forgiven in your case either.

What happened was forgiven. I could not forgive  the total lack of verbal remorse.

A simple "I'm sorry" or anything like that and we'd be looking at 30 years married.

You guys don't get it.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: JNM on October 02, 2021, 04:52:38 am
What happened was forgiven. I could not forgive  the total lack of verbal remorse.

A simple "I'm sorry" or anything like that and we'd be looking at 30 years married.

You guys don't get it.

I guess I don’t.

In any event, I am content with the relationship I have with my ex-wife.  Our kids are adults now. The last time I spoke to her was about 2 years ago when she picked up one of our kids. She awkwardly attempted to make small talk, I rolled my eyes and said very little.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Aristocrat on October 02, 2021, 06:33:47 am
What happened was forgiven. I could not forgive  the total lack of verbal remorse.

A simple "I'm sorry" or anything like that and we'd be looking at 30 years married.

You guys don't get it.

No, you don't get it.

Your thought process and views are based on hedonism. You make decisions on what yields the most joy/pleasure and/or is the least difficult.
For most of us it would be difficult to sever contact with someone you've shared your life with for years, but that's generally what you should do, unless you share children.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 02, 2021, 09:34:11 am
The issue people have isn't that it can't be done, it's that very often it fails. The fact that a rare few can do something and have it work (and it's not always due to skill, but luck) doesn't make it a good idea for everyone to do.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Liechtenstein on October 02, 2021, 04:33:52 pm
No, you don't get it.

Your thought process and views are based on hedonism. You make decisions on what yields the most joy/pleasure and/or is the least difficult.
For most of us it would be difficult to sever contact with someone you've shared your life with for years, but that's generally what you should do, unless you share children.

Let me ask you this, do you make decisions on what yields the least joy and pleasure and is the most difficult? What a guy.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: VanIslander on October 02, 2021, 04:40:41 pm
Please don't criticize marriages.

Relationships are tricky enough, hard to handle, require specific humility and adaptation,...

So, support those who fail, herald those who succeed, i mean, do well.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Kurt Sorensen on October 02, 2021, 08:14:27 pm
Please don't criticize marriages.

Relationships are tricky enough, hard to handle, require specific humility and adaptation,...

So, support those who fail, herald those who succeed, i mean, do well.

WTF???
You have 2 cats, and have been living here, single, for 19 years. Before that you ran away from a marriage. Don't give advice on marriage. Ever!!!!
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: JNM on October 02, 2021, 08:31:14 pm
Don't give advice on marriage. Ever!!!!

He wasn’t. He was giving advice on criticizing. :)
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Kurt Sorensen on October 02, 2021, 08:41:27 pm
Disagree. You are one of the savvy posters. Please read between the lines.

Edit: okay, read it a few more times. You're right. My bad.
         I shouldn't let a style of writing get up my nose so much.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Aristocrat on October 02, 2021, 09:22:43 pm
Let me ask you this, do you make decisions on what yields the least joy and pleasure and is the most difficult? What a guy.

Uhh, anyone can.
When you shut your brain off and follow what feels good, in the moment, that's called being hedonistic and it's what separates humans from animals.

Your argument to maintain close ties after divorce is rooted in the selfish desire to do what feels good for yourself.
There's a part of you that doesn't want to see your ex find happiness with another man and wants to maintain some kind of relationship.

On the other hand...

The argument to respectfully sever ties, unless children are involved, is the final gift of love to your spouse to give both you and her the best
possible odds to move on with your life and find someone new.

Hypothetical scenario, 1000 couples and they all divorced at the same time. Group A consisted of 500 couples who stayed in contact and Group B consisted of 500 couples
who severed ties. What's the worst outcomes you could expect from Group B??? Both parties simply move on with their lives. Group A? A large percent of those will commit adultery with their
ex in future relationships, the ex will become an issue for the new partners etc.

There's only one logical choice.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Aristocrat on October 04, 2021, 10:27:53 am
A number that's flying around is that 50% of American women, in relationships, have a backup guy and that backup guy is typically an ex or other male she's known for years. Now, this is according to a market research company called Onepoll.com and while plenty of other crappy sites are throwing around this number and I can't get any info on the methodology of the study, it's something to think about
https://curlytales.com/new-research-shows-that-over-50-of-women-in-relationships-have-a-back-up-partner/

While the figures are more conservative, this data is a lot more legitimate.
From Psychology today, a the findings Nicole Wedberg's Masters thesis concluding that 20% of heterosexual women in relationships (short and long-term) have a backup guy.

Since this is literally a female evolutionary trait I can't be too judgemental, but what we could argue is that having a backup partner weakens a person's resolve to focus on sorting out any problems they will encounter during marriage. They'll divorce and run off with their plan B before exhausting all opportunities to save the marriage.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/darwins-subterranean-world/201901/the-psychology-the-backup-boyfriend-or-girlfriend

Liechtenstein fails to understand that just because he won a round of Russian Roulette (for now), it doesn't mean it's a great idea to gamble with your marriage.

Play it safe, particularly when you're gambling for a prize which isn't that impressive.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Liechtenstein on October 05, 2021, 11:38:28 am
Not that impressive. Being mature enough and sensible enough to realize that friendship is still possible some times when a relationship falls apart.

That sounds impressive to me. But I'm an atheist so I'm gonna burn in hell anyway. The down side: no 42 virgins...the upside, think of the band!
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Aristocrat on October 05, 2021, 12:10:50 pm
Not that impressive. Being mature enough and sensible enough to realize that friendship is still possible some times when a relationship falls apart.

Winning at the races, is it possible, yes. Is it advisable to gamble when your marriage is on the line?
As Dmart said a while back, everyone thinks it'll never happen till it does.
The statistics aren't on your side either.

These days, everyone is way too smart, mature and in control of their emotions to take advice from anyone other than themselves. The fact that infidelity and divorce is through the roof certainly can't be because people are too arrogant to take advice.

That sounds impressive to me. But I'm an atheist so I'm gonna burn in hell anyway. The down side: no 42 virgins...the upside, think of the band!

I remember my 14yr old schoolmates scribbling funnier and less cringey things on their bags, so again... you're not making a terrific case for being mature. Brush up on your wit/humour, it's horribly outdated and cringe.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 05, 2021, 01:11:22 pm
On the other hand if all the parties (or at least two of them) had a relatively transactional view of marriage, then they simply might not care that much. and I could see why it wouldn't be a big deal.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: L I on October 05, 2021, 02:10:59 pm
The down side: no 42 virgins...

It's actually 72. I learned about that from a NOFX song.
___________________ ___________________ ___________________

They don't hate us, they just hate their lives
And desperate people learn to despise
The suicidals don't want a coup
They don't want to blow up, they just want their 72


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bJdbWr4t6U

These holy wars aren't holy, it's not the military complex
Terrorists are 16 year old kids who were promised Jihad sex
Maybe if they could see a woman's face
They might not get onto that plane
With a bomb in their suitcase
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 05, 2021, 02:13:33 pm
The American belief that Middle Eastern/Islamic rage is down to a lack of sex is why America has been run out of the Middle East after years of failure and gobs of money spent and lives lost.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: L I on October 05, 2021, 02:19:11 pm
American presence there did loads of good; for example, getting rid of the ISIS caliphate. For the time the US kicked out the Taliban, females were allowed to be educated. Glad millions were able to experience that, even if it was temporary. No large scale 9/11 attacks lately. Something for which we should all be thankful.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: L I on October 05, 2021, 02:27:21 pm
...belief that Middle Eastern/Islamic rage is down to a lack of sex...

Think about it mathematically. When one man marries four wives, that leaves many more with nothing. Incels are created.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Kyndo on October 05, 2021, 02:42:48 pm
American presence there did loads of good; for example, getting rid of the ISIS caliphate.
ISIS bombed and killed a dozen US soldiers and 170 Afghan civilians only a month or 2 ago. Their territory is gone, but they have more support now than they did when they first began their land-grab. ISIS isn't done yet, more's the pity.  :sad:
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Aristocrat on October 05, 2021, 02:49:11 pm
Think about it mathematically. When one man marries four wives, that leaves many more with nothing. Incels are created.

It's not super common, even in the Middle-East, to marry multiple wives as it's only the super rich and/or men of influence within a particular
area who take on multiple wives.

This means the ration is still more is less balanced.

Another huge factor is that marriages are typically arranged between families so a guy really doesn't need any game or courtship skills
to get a wife.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: L I on October 05, 2021, 02:50:23 pm
ISIS bombed and killed a dozen US soldiers and 170 Afghan civilians only a month or 2 ago. Their territory is gone, but they have more support now than they did when they first began their land-grab. ISIS isn't done yet, more's the pity.  :sad:

Their capacity is greatly diminished at least. And I think support for them has gone done after people experienced living under them. Let’s hope they remain weak and ineffective compared to how strong they were at their peak.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Liechtenstein on October 05, 2021, 05:21:29 pm
It's not super common, even in the Middle-East, to marry multiple wives as it's only the super rich and/or men of influence within a particular
area who take on multiple wives.

This means the ration is still more is less balanced.

Another huge factor is that marriages are typically arranged between families so a guy really doesn't need any game or courtship skills
to get a wife.

Man, that just sounds delightful doesn't it? Any of you happily married people out there wish your parents had picked some person at random that you met on your wedding day to spend your life with?

Courtship, romance and love are so over-rated anyway.

Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: JNM on October 05, 2021, 05:56:56 pm
Man, that just sounds delightful doesn't it? Any of you happily married people out there wish your parents had picked some person at random that you met on your wedding day to spend your life with?

Courtship, romance and love are so over-rated anyway.



To be honest, they did warn me about wife V1.
I think they could have done better for me in my early 20s.

In my mid 30s, wife V2 came along, and everyone liked her.  :)
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Kyndo on October 05, 2021, 07:11:57 pm
Their capacity is greatly diminished at least. And I think support for them has gone done after people experienced living under them. Let’s hope they remain weak and ineffective compared to how strong they were at their peak.
Fingers crossed, definitely.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Aristocrat on October 06, 2021, 09:35:47 am
Man, that just sounds delightful doesn't it? Any of you happily married people out there wish your parents had picked some person at random that you met on your wedding day to spend your life with?

Courtship, romance and love are so over-rated anyway.

For someone who claims to love travelling and appreciating other cultures you certainly have a very myopic appreciation of things and illustrate the cultural understanding of an ajjushi who has never left his myeon.

Arranged marriages have been practiced for most of human history, across all civilisations and cultures. Only a fool would think it has no value.

There's a broad spectrum of how arranged marriages are carried out. The sale of daughters in places like Afghanistan, Pakistan and SE Asia is more slavery than arranged marriage.

While it does occur in the Muslim community back home, it's not common. It's more the Indians who practice it but they have a different way of doing it which I'm not too familiar with.

I'll try to explain how it happens in the Muslim community back home. Bear with me, but start from the ridiculous premise that your parents love you, know you and want the best for you.

- They find a potential bride from a family that's known and respected. Straight off the bat, the 2 of you will share around 80% of your values (same Religion) and to the best of your knowledge, you'll know that your partner wasn't raised by a dysfunctional family. Your parents know your personality better than you know yourself and do their best to select someone who matches you.

- The two families meet (alla Godfather 2) and the two of you have a chance to discuss your future. Better yet, you're surrounded by people who know both of you and have been married for decades. They have experience and can guide you on the best questions to ask. With this guidance, you find yourself learning more about your potential spouse and their values in an afternoon than you would over 6 months of dating.

- The bride isn't quite sure so you, and your siblings go hiking with her and her siblings to spend some time in a less formal setting. A few more of these fun outings and you're both sure.

- You inform your families that you both agree to get married, you're both engaged and the wedding arrangements go underway. Congratulations, you've found someone who'll be as close a match to you as you could intelligently decide and you've done it without going through years/decades of drama, breakups, illegitimate children and emotional baggage.

Love?
I'd rather believe what, arguably, the greatest writer in the Western world says about love (Let Me Not the Marriage of True Minds) over some lame frontman singing about his idea of love through the means of yet another crappy 80s, metal ballad.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: OnNut81 on October 06, 2021, 10:43:08 am
For someone who claims to love travelling and appreciating other cultures you certainly have a very myopic appreciation of things and illustrate the cultural understanding of an ajjushi who has never left his myeon.

Arranged marriages have been practiced for most of human history, across all civilisations and cultures. Only a fool would think it has no value.

There's a broad spectrum of how arranged marriages are carried out. The sale of daughters in places like Afghanistan, Pakistan and SE Asia is more slavery than arranged marriage.

While it does occur in the Muslim community back home, it's not common. It's more the Indians who practice it but they have a different way of doing it which I'm not too familiar with.

I'll try to explain how it happens in the Muslim community back home. Bear with me, but start from the ridiculous premise that your parents love you, know you and want the best for you.

- They find a potential bride from a family that's known and respected. Straight off the bat, the 2 of you will share around 80% of your values (same Religion) and to the best of your knowledge, you'll know that your partner wasn't raised by a dysfunctional family. Your parents know your personality better than you know yourself and do their best to select someone who matches you.

- The two families meet (alla Godfather 2) and the two of you have a chance to discuss your future. Better yet, you're surrounded by people who know both of you and have been married for decades. They have experience and can guide you on the best questions to ask. With this guidance, you find yourself learning more about your potential spouse and their values in an afternoon than you would over 6 months of dating.

- The bride isn't quite sure so you, and your siblings go hiking with her and her siblings to spend some time in a less formal setting. A few more of these fun outings and you're both sure.

- You inform your families that you both agree to get married, you're both engaged and the wedding arrangements go underway. Congratulations, you've found someone who'll be as close a match to you as you could intelligently decide and you've done it without going through years/decades of drama, breakups, illegitimate children and emotional baggage.



I notice this scenario of yours only had one outcome, so why bother with all the "Let's go for a hike and pretend you have a choice"  or why even meet and have a discussion?  In your scenario the meeting was pointless.  The decision was already made.  Seems about as fruitless as a trial in China.  What happens if one of the participants says "No, thanks, I'll handle this on my own."?

" The bride isn't quite sure so you, and your siblings go hiking with her and her siblings to spend some time in a less formal setting. A few more of these fun outings and you're both sure." 

That's guaranteed?  Sounds you've dictated the outcome.  Again, in the real world, "you're both sure" doesn't happen.  This "now you're sure" seems forced.

Lots of shit has happened for centuries (slavery) but we don't still consider it to have a value because of its longevity.  That's no excuse or rationale. 
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 06, 2021, 11:05:31 am
Courtship, romance and love are so over-rated anyway.

It's certainly a front-loaded short-term view of a relationship. It also likely comtributes to the high divorce rate.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: tylerthegloob on October 06, 2021, 11:22:56 am
courtship in 2021  :laugh:
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 06, 2021, 11:48:27 am
There's an elephant in the room regarding some people claiming their dating and marriage was about love.

At least Aristocrat's marriage isn't based on him being a ticket out of sustained endemic poverty. Odds are good at least a few people on this site are in a "traditional view of marriage" marriage whether they want to admit itbor not.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Aristocrat on October 06, 2021, 12:16:49 pm
I notice this scenario of yours only had one outcome

...No sh*t, Sherlock. Your family introduces you to someone for marriage and the outcome is either a wedding or no wedding. One outcome. Where are you going with this?

What happens if one of the participants says "No, thanks, I'll handle this on my own."?

Then that's all she wrote.
A marriage may not proceed without the woman's consent. There's no pressure on her either as the dowry (of which she can demand any amount) goes to her, not her family. While arranged marriages aren't common in the Muslim community back home, it's not uncommon for those looking to get married to go through multiple suitors.

Lots of shit has happened for centuries (slavery) but we don't still consider it to have a value because of its longevity.  That's no excuse or rationale. 

Does THIS sound like slavery to you?

It sounds like you know next to nothing about what you're criticising and are filling in the blanks of your knowledge with hearsay and things you've picked up after watching Vice documentaries of weird tribes in the middle of nowhere.

Believe it or not, but Muslims, like many other people (including Koreans) tend to make up their minds a lot quicker than modern westerners regarding marriage. You lot, cohabiting  for 5yrs before you think about marriage are the exception to the rest of the world, not us. When you're automatically aware that your prospective spouse shares 80% of your values, comes from a decent family and your interactions are guided by those who've been married for decades, it becomes a hell of a lot easier to make up your mind.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: 745sticky on October 06, 2021, 02:11:07 pm
At least Aristocrat's marriage isn't based on him being a ticket out of sustained endemic poverty.

funny, i seem to recall a user on this very forum actually bragging about that sort of thing. cant seem to place their name, its stuck their on the tip of my tongue.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: OnNut81 on October 06, 2021, 02:29:28 pm
...No sh*t, Sherlock. Your family introduces you to someone for marriage and the outcome is either a wedding or no wedding. One outcome. Where are you going with this?

Then that's all she wrote.
A marriage may not proceed without the woman's consent. There's no pressure on her either as the dowry (of which she can demand any amount) goes to her, not her family. While arranged marriages aren't common in the Muslim community back home, it's not uncommon for those looking to get married to go through multiple suitors.

Does THIS sound like slavery to you?

It sounds like you know next to nothing about what you're criticising and are filling in the blanks of your knowledge with hearsay and things you've picked up after watching Vice documentaries of weird tribes in the middle of nowhere.

Believe it or not, but Muslims, like many other people (including Koreans) tend to make up their minds a lot quicker than modern westerners regarding marriage. You lot, cohabiting  for 5yrs before you think about marriage are the exception to the rest of the world, not us. When you're automatically aware that your prospective spouse shares 80% of your values, comes from a decent family and your interactions are guided by those who've been married for decades, it becomes a hell of a lot easier to make up your mind.

For a guy that is so satisfied with his life choices, you're incredibly consistently combative and defensive about those choices.  Here's one for you to get in a twist about.  To those of us with more life experience you come across as incredibly naive.  You judge everyone in a different boat as being "you lot"  and just chalk everything up to you not having to experience all these things because you can fall back on the knowledge of centuries of Islam and all decisions are made for you.  If it works for you, great.  I would shudder at living the sheltered and dictated life you seem to take great comfort in.  But, it doesn't anger and upset me that you look down upon "my lot."  We look down on "your lot." As we have no personal investment in each other it shouldn't anger you and you shouldn't continue to be so thin-skinned as to always need to attack when questioned.  You're a narcissist that's insecure.  Reminds me of a recent American president. 
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: tony tony tony on October 06, 2021, 02:34:39 pm
Mrariage; the devil's dance. careful boys, you mess with a two-bit Yugoslav and she'll poke you in the eye and run off with the groomsman.

She just wanted somethnig pretty to put in her room.
smoke kills you in one way; and doesn't keep you warm for a minute.

He can ask no better match then the dark focres of Hell, and if all women were like her, they'd all be called Charles.

I'm twenty-seven, not eight; I'm always twenty-seven, always have been and always will be.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: OnNut81 on October 06, 2021, 02:38:12 pm
There's an elephant in the room regarding some people claiming their dating and marriage was about love.

At least Aristocrat's marriage isn't based on him being a ticket out of sustained endemic poverty. Odds are good at least a few people on this site are in a "traditional view of marriage" marriage whether they want to admit itbor not.

Marti, no matter how much you keep trying to suck up to him (and you've been really going hard lately) Aristocrat does not share your view that you're two posters, that although frequently clash, deep down have a reluctant respect for each other.  He has made it clear over the years he has no respect for you and your thoughts.  How often do you need to be put down by the guy before you pick up on that?  Your respect for him is not reciprocated in the slightest.  And if he were to come on now and say he did hold some respect you for you, it would be an outright lie evident to everyone who has been on here longer than a month.  I don't much respect you Martino, but even for you, it's getting cringe worthy watching you try and brown nose. 

Give it up Mart, he's just not that into you. 
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: OnNut81 on October 06, 2021, 02:45:04 pm
...No sh*t, Sherlock. Your family introduces you to someone for marriage and the outcome is either a wedding or no wedding. One outcome. Where are you going with this?


Weren't you juvenilely trying to mock Liechenstein just the other day for using an expression that was from your high school days?  And you just used "No sh*t Sherlock?"  Delicious!  I challenge anyone to find an expression that is more outdated that has been used in all seriousness here.  I'm sure you can explain it away, though. 
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 06, 2021, 02:53:43 pm
Marti, no matter how much you keep trying to suck up to him (and you've been really going hard lately) Aristocrat does not share your view that you're two posters, that although frequently clash, deep down have a reluctant respect for each other.  He has made it clear over the years he has no respect for you and your thoughts.  How often do you need to be put down by the guy before you pick up on that?  Your respect for him is not reciprocated in the slightest.  And if he were to come on now and say he did hold some respect you for you, it would be an outright lie evident to everyone who has been on here longer than a month.  I don't much respect you Martino, but even for you, it's getting cringe worthy watching you try and brown nose. 

Give it up Mart, he's just not that into you. 
Arsitocrqt could think I'm the biggest POS in the world and the Devil Incarnate.

Wouldn't change my view.

Unlike some posters on this board, my opinion isn't dependent on my opinion of the poster. I'm sorry if you base your opinion on policies regarding things like religious dress on your opinion of the person talking.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Chinguetti on October 06, 2021, 02:55:17 pm
The divorce rate for arranged marriages might be incredibly low, but the rate of infidelity is also really, really high. Cheating is almost synonymous with it.

Same in Korea. They make their decisions quickly, but they also can't seem to stick with them. I have never, ever been hit on by a Korean man who didn't have an SO. Literally, out of the many, many times I've been approached and propositioned by a Korean man, 100% of them were in a committed relationship, the majority of whom were married... with kids.  :undecided: And the statistics support that. Infidelity is rampant here.

I mean if an arranged marriage works for you and others, great, but there are a ton of problems that come with them, too, and it's not really fair or honest to pretend that people who are involved in arranged marriages or who make their marriage decisions quickly are the picture of marital bliss. There's a lot of idealism being presented as a supporting argument for them, but, much like with everything else, arranged marriages and rushed marriage decisions have their pros and cons, too, and they're definitely not everyone's answer for a happy marriage.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: CO2 on October 06, 2021, 02:58:39 pm
Weren't you juvenilely trying to mock Liechenstein just the other day for using an expression that was from your high school days?  And you just used "No sh*t Sherlock?"  Delicious!  I challenge anyone to find an expression that is more outdated that has been used in all seriousness here.  I'm sure you can explain it away, though. 
This thread is dead than a doornail, but I'm happy as a clam bringing home that tubular bacon.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: OnNut81 on October 06, 2021, 03:03:46 pm
Arsitocrqt could think I'm the biggest POS in the world and the Devil Incarnate.

Wouldn't change my view.

Unlike some posters on this board, my opinion isn't dependent on my opinion of the poster. I'm sorry if you base your opinion on policies regarding things like religious dress on your opinion of the person talking.

Hunh? 
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 06, 2021, 03:11:09 pm
funny, i seem to recall a user on this very forum actually bragging about that sort of thing. cant seem to place their name, its stuck their on the tip of my tongue.
Seems rather improbable considering both are ESL teachers working essentially the same position for the same wage with the same qualifications and level of education and if their marriage was indeed arranged it is likely their families were of similar socioeconomic status.

This as opposed to say someone lecturing peoples of the world on arraigned marriage and marriage being all about love when their wife that's 15 years younger than them comes from a country substantially lower on the economic scale and whose family lives in a hovel. Yes, tell us all about marrying for love.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 06, 2021, 03:11:57 pm
This thread is dead than a doornail, but I'm happy as a clam bringing home that tubular bacon.
Well if the thread weren't dead before....
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: tylerthegloob on October 06, 2021, 03:13:16 pm
arraigned marriage
hmmmmm

what would an arraigned marriage be...
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: OnNut81 on October 06, 2021, 03:24:17 pm
Seems rather improbable considering both are ESL teachers working essentially the same position for the same wage with the same qualifications and level of education and if their marriage was indeed arranged it is likely their families were of similar socioeconomic status.


This is what I mean.  Aristocrat, by his own admission would be smoking cigarettes and watching the surf roll in if he never left Cape Town.  Yet, Korea has given him the opportunity to save money and get ahead (by his own account) and work towards his teacher's qualifications so that he can move on to somewhere he wants to be.  Again, this is all by his own account.  Instead of being thankful, he openly has shown disdain consistently towards Korean driving standards, Korean teaching standards, the day to day behaviour of the Koreans at his workplace and even the local track ajusshi for not knowing as well as he does how to organize the running track.  And you just give him a pass.  Is this is what an arraigned marriage is? 

Anybody else could say something like "Corn on pizza is stupid" and you'd be off with a "Dude, how arrogant!"  "Welcome to life as an immigrant.  Do you think Italians don't look down on you for putting pineapple on a pizza?" 

Aristocrat comes on and says "Koreans stink and dare to talk to me in the workplace when I'm clearly lost in thought" and you'd be all like "Aristocrat is so fast.  I bet you he could be a real like Flash if he just wanted y'all."  And that was a real example, not made up. 
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Aristocrat on October 06, 2021, 03:44:36 pm
This is what I mean.  Aristocrat, by his own admission would be smoking cigarettes and watching the surf roll in if he never left Cape Town.  Yet, Korea has given him the opportunity to save money and get ahead (by his own account) and work towards his teacher's qualifications so that he can move on to somewhere he wants to be.  Again, this is all by his own account.  Instead of being thankful, he openly has shown disdain consistently towards Korean driving standards, Korean teaching standards, the day to day behaviour of the Koreans at his workplace and even the local track ajusshi for not knowing as well as he does how to organize the running track.  And you just give him a pass.  Is this is what an arraigned marriage is? 

Anybody else could say something like "Corn on pizza is stupid" and you'd be off with a "Dude, how arrogant!"  "Welcome to life as an immigrant.  Do you think Italians don't look down on you for putting pineapple on a pizza?" 

Aristocrat comes on and says "Koreans stink and dare to talk to me in the workplace when I'm clearly lost in thought" and you'd be all like "Aristocrat is so fast.  I bet you he could be a real like Flash if he just wanted y'all."  And that was a real example, not made up. 

I beg your pardon, "Korea" did not "give" me a damn thing.

I'm in a business arrangement with the Korean government; I teach, they pay me.

Try this for a fun exercise, pick a sport. Then, try to find something you like about it and something you dislike about it. Done? Welcome to my world, that's pretty much how I approach everything.
I can appreciate certain things about Korean culture (removing shoes before entering a home) and criticise other things (spitting).
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Aristocrat on October 06, 2021, 03:53:51 pm
The divorce rate for arranged marriages might be incredibly low, but the rate of infidelity is also really, really high. Cheating is almost synonymous with it.

Need to see some evidence before I believe this. Furthermore, arranged marriages are practiced in almost every country and across every culture. It's
a huge spectrum. Infidelity might be rife in Japanese arranged marriages, but non-existent in Indian arranged marriages.

Same in Korea. They make their decisions quickly, but they also can't seem to stick with them. I have never, ever been hit on by a Korean man who didn't have an SO. Literally, out of the many, many times I've been approached and propositioned by a Korean man, 100% of them were in a committed relationship, the majority of whom were married... with kids.  :undecided: And the statistics support that. Infidelity is rampant here.

I mean if an arranged marriage works for you and others, great, but there are a ton of problems that come with them, too, and it's not really fair or honest to pretend that people who are involved in arranged marriages or who make their marriage decisions quickly are the picture of marital bliss. There's a lot of idealism being presented as a supporting argument for them, but, much like with everything else, arranged marriages and rushed marriage decisions have their pros and cons, too, and they're definitely not everyone's answer for a happy marriage.

Very well, can you name one?
To keep things simple, since arranged marriages vary so dramatically, can you name an issue with the arranged marriage scenario I illustrated?

I agree it won't work for everyone, particularly in the modern western world where, unless your cultural or Religious background is solid, people
don't really have a distinct principle of values to identify themselves with. I'm simply challenging Liechtenstein's typically ridiculous beliefs that
only the hedonistic liberal way of doing everything from relationships to flossing is the only civilised way to go about something.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Chinguetti on October 06, 2021, 04:05:25 pm
I could and normally would, but I'm really not invested enough in this argument to put in the time and effort. I've actually got a lot of things I need to take care of, and it's left me kind of bleh-ish about this kind of stuff.

I'm also very aware that many countries practice arranged marriages, I just wanted to put forth that this is NOT because they're an ingenious secret to marital bliss. There is so much going on behind arranged marriages that it's really not a simple or easy topic to discuss or argue. Fwiw, though, there's a ton of info on the claims that I've put forth, and if you're really interested just for the sake of it you could do a google search. It's really not a heavy dig.

I also respect that you're just trying to counter LIC and will leave you to it. I know how it goes.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 06, 2021, 04:05:30 pm
hmmmmm

what would an arraigned marriage be...
Lol.
I suppose conjugal visits would be a sticking point.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 06, 2021, 04:08:53 pm
Aristocrat comes on and says "Koreans stink and dare to talk to me in the workplace when I'm clearly lost in thought" and you'd be all like "Aristocrat is so fast.  I bet you he could be a real like Flash if he just wanted y'all."  And that was a real example, not made up.
Except I've argued with him a bajillion times over stuff like that. Sooner or later another thread will come up and it will happen again, then he'll call me a turd and I'll say he's being an arrogant blowhard again and then we'll back here after Lichtenstein or whomever does something like this.

I will say, I do have some sympathy given the constant stream of shit he gets for being Muslim. Everyone on this site talks big about how tolerant and enlightened they are, but push comes to shove and something like 80% of people here turn into subtle bigots or outright ajosshis.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Kurt Sorensen on October 06, 2021, 04:29:53 pm
I will say, I do have some sympathy given the constant stream of shit he gets for being Muslim.

Marti, apart from this thread, I've rarely seem Aristocrat get negative shit thrown at him. Not starting an arguement, but can you quote examples of this.
I enjoy reading his stuff, and I cannot recall any, personally.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: WhenInRome... on October 06, 2021, 05:06:43 pm
Except I've argued with him a bajillion times over stuff like that. Sooner or later another thread will come up and it will happen again, then he'll call me a turd and I'll say he's being an arrogant blowhard again and then we'll back here after Lichtenstein or whomever does something like this.

I will say, I do have some sympathy given the constant stream of shit he gets for being Muslim. Everyone on this site talks big about how tolerant and enlightened they are, but push comes to shove and something like 80% of people here turn into subtle bigots or outright ajosshis.

Get summa dat sticky and chillaxxx brosuf. You gonna be ok ;)
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Aristocrat on October 06, 2021, 05:34:54 pm
Marti, apart from this thread, I've rarely seem Aristocrat get negative shit thrown at him. Not starting an arguement, but can you quote examples of this.
I enjoy reading his stuff, and I cannot recall any, personally.

It's calmed down recently, but if I remember correctly, 2yrs back it got pretty nasty.

The issue I've had has never been the belief of others or trying to spread mine. No, the issue has always been hypocrisy. In all the years on this forum I've not come across a single user who has illustrated even a fundamental knowledge of what Islam is... and that's perfectly fine. I like to think that it's a good idea to learn a bit about every major culture and Religion so that, in the case of Islam, you'll have a better understanding of roughly 1/4 of the humans on this planet, but anyway.

Some users will throw around criticism and insults of Muslims or Islam, fine, but illustrate a complete lack of knowledge of what they're criticising. It's basically the ajjushi who thinks all foreign men have AIDS yet he can't find USA on a map. I try to articulate, in plain English, with evidence "No... in Islam, a Muslim woman is free to refuse a marriage proposal" and that same user will post "Islam bad, Muslim women can't choose who they marry." 2 months later.

Again, it's not that bad these days and despite how harsh my words might come across this is waygook.org, there're few things that wont turn into an argument so we should all be used to it by now.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Aristocrat on October 06, 2021, 05:36:07 pm
Get summa dat sticky and chillaxxx brosuf. You gonna be ok ;)

Geez, even I'm getting annoyed at this "sticky nonsense", sounds like a crappy Blink182/Offspring verse from the early 2000s.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Kurt Sorensen on October 06, 2021, 05:44:08 pm
Cheers Aristocrat.

Okay, the rubbish was going back a few years. I never read it. Shouldn't happen though. I stay well away from religion and politics. I don't know enough, and I'd just come across as being an ingnoramous.

And, congrats to the Boks, you beat us (but only just). What a game!
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: WhenInRome... on October 06, 2021, 05:48:28 pm
Geez, even I'm getting annoyed at this "sticky nonsense", sounds like a crappy Blink182/Offspring verse from the early 2000s.

You get summa dat sticky too, brah ;)
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 06, 2021, 05:52:44 pm
You get summa dat sticky too, brah ;)
Looks like the sticky icky has made you a one-trick pony. Get some new material man.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: WhenInRome... on October 06, 2021, 05:55:21 pm
Looks like the sticky icky has made you a one-trick pony. Get some new material man.

Don't tell me what to do. ;)
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 06, 2021, 06:02:01 pm
Don't tell me what to do. ;)
Just some artistic criticism to my #1 fan. Daddy always wants to see son do well.

Think of some good beer commercials or maybe some good ol' 80s coke stuff.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Aristocrat on October 06, 2021, 08:00:25 pm
Cheers Aristocrat.

Okay, the rubbish was going back a few years. I never read it. Shouldn't happen though. I stay well away from religion and politics. I don't know enough, and I'd just come across as being an ingnoramous.

And, congrats to the Boks, you beat us (but only just). What a game!


Solid game, but winning by a ruck penalty always feels cheap.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: 745sticky on October 07, 2021, 08:54:05 am
Just some artistic criticism to my #1 fan. Daddy always wants to see son do well.

Think of some good beer commercials or maybe some good ol' 80s coke stuff.

please never refer to yourself as "daddy" again. dont ask why, just trust me on this one
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: tylerthegloob on October 07, 2021, 09:15:45 am
please never refer to yourself as "daddy" again. dont ask why, just trust me on this one
yes daddy
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Kurt Sorensen on October 07, 2021, 10:14:50 am
 'Come to your daddy',  said in a slow deep drawl. That'll make your skin crawl.

Bowie said it at the Live Aid Concert (???) as a joke. It still creeps me out.
Title: Re: ex partners
Post by: Liechtenstein on October 09, 2021, 02:53:28 pm
To be honest, they did warn me about wife V1.
I think they could have done better for me in my early 20s.

In my mid 30s, wife V2 came along, and everyone liked her.  :)

We call the first marriage a trial run.