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Career Venue => Contract, and Job Related Issues => Topic started by: SPQR on July 09, 2021, 02:42:26 pm

Title: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: SPQR on July 09, 2021, 02:42:26 pm
Schools will close. How about hagwons? My study room is till open.
Nobody has texted us to the contrary.
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: T.J. on July 09, 2021, 03:09:14 pm
Schools aren’t technically closing but rather going to online classes from Wednesday until the start of summer break.

The only communication we received was that all hagwon employees should get a Covid test next week. That came from MoE and City Hall
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: leaponover on July 09, 2021, 03:14:43 pm
Can we clarify if this is just a Seoul thing?  I haven't heard anything about this.
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: CO2 on July 09, 2021, 03:15:30 pm
Gyeonggi is all online next week
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: SPQR on July 09, 2021, 03:20:55 pm
Gyeonggi is all online next week


Gyeonggi what? Specifics please.
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: Lazio on July 09, 2021, 06:32:53 pm
Seoul, Gyeonggi, Incheon... to avoid further confusion, let's make clear what's what.
The capital area aka. 수도권 includes Seoul, Incheon and Gyeonggi-do.

So the the capital area aka. 수도권, will be under level 4 social distancing rules from Monday.

''Schools and educational facilities:
Classes will shift online starting July 14.
Private academies will be closed after 10 p.m., and can only allow one person per 8 square meters.''
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: L I on July 10, 2021, 11:06:21 am
One person per eight square meters? That’s one student per class.
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: Mr C on July 11, 2021, 08:03:50 pm
One person per eight square meters? That’s one student per class.

I think they're saying 8m2, not (8m)2.  That makes it a box 2.8 meters per side.
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: Lazio on July 11, 2021, 08:49:42 pm
I think they're saying 8m2, not (8m)2.  That makes it a box 2.8 meters per side.

???
So what is 8m2 then?

8 square meters is exactly what it means: 8 square meters. This regulation was already used a couple of times when cases spiked.
I believe it's counted for the entire school, not just one classroom. So if there is a school with a total area of 160 square meters, 20 kids can be present at any given time. It doesn't matter if they are in one classroom or across several classrooms.
But it isn't really enforced/followed.
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: Mr C on July 11, 2021, 09:40:53 pm
???
So what is 8m2 then?

8 square meters is exactly what it means: 8 square meters. This regulation was already used a couple of times when cases spiked.
I believe it's counted for the entire school, not just one classroom. So if there is a school with a total area of 160 square meters, 20 kids can be present at any given time. It doesn't matter if they are in one classroom or across several classrooms.
But it isn't really enforced/followed.

8 square meters means an area such that when the sides (taking a rectangle, for example) multiply together they make 8.  2.8m X 2.8 m = 8m2.

8 meters on a side would give 8m X 8m = 64m2.   

I was a math teacher for 20+ years.

https://sciencing.com/calculate-square-meters-room-7776820.html

https://grassfactory.co.za/calculating-an-area-in-square-meters/

https://www.scarsdaleschools.k12.ny.us/cms/lib/NY01001205/Centricity/Domain/1105/2014-11-19%20Meeting%20of%20Greenacres%20Building%20Committee%20Meeting%20Handout%203%20-%20Classroom%20Size%20Standards.pdf
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: Lazio on July 11, 2021, 10:24:38 pm
8 square meters means an area such that when the sides (taking a rectangle, for example) multiply together they make 8.  2.8m X 2.8 m = 8m2.

8 meters on a side would give 8m X 8m = 64m2.   

I was a math teacher for 20+ years.

https://sciencing.com/calculate-square-meters-room-7776820.html

https://grassfactory.co.za/calculating-an-area-in-square-meters/

https://www.scarsdaleschools.k12.ny.us/cms/lib/NY01001205/Centricity/Domain/1105/2014-11-19%20Meeting%20of%20Greenacres%20Building%20Committee%20Meeting%20Handout%203%20-%20Classroom%20Size%20Standards.pdf


It was fairly obvious from the get go that they mean 8 square meters and not 64 square meters. Hence, the quote said 8 square meters.
What had you confused is,  you are most likely used to public school classroom sizes and haven't seen many hagwon classrooms.
LI indicated that 8 square meters per student is rather small (when you consider a typical hagwon classroom size of somewhere between 15 and 20 square meters.)
You probably pictured a public school classroom and thought that LI must have meant 64 square meters when he mentioned 1 student/ class.
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: Mr C on July 11, 2021, 10:53:49 pm
It was fairly obvious from the get go that they mean 8 square meters and not 64 square meters. Hence, the quote said 8 square meters.
What had you confused is,  you are most likely used to public school classroom sizes and haven't seen many hagwon classrooms.
LI indicated that 8 square meters per student is rather small (when you consider a typical hagwon classroom size of somewhere between 12 and 20 square meters.)
You probably pictured a public school classroom and thought that LI must have meant 64 square meters when he mentioned 1 student/ class.

Sorry, but I haven't confused anything.  8m2 means only and exactly what I said. You definitely thought I had that wrong, yeah? (With a "so" and three "?")   

How many students would fit in a box 2.8m X 2.8m?  One student can easily fit in that size, right?  My apartment could hold 6-8 students at that spread, 2 more if I put one in the bathroom and one in the entryway.  That's a lot more than one.

Did you look at the links I provided?

Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: D.L.Orean on July 12, 2021, 07:18:43 am
I'm surprised an adult wouldn't understand the very simple concept of square meters/feet.

Hagwon classrooms are definitely big enough for more than 1 student. Classrooms aren't bigger than 2.8mx2.8m? Without restrictions, how many students are usually squeezed into 8m2?
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: L I on July 12, 2021, 08:05:38 am
One teacher + one student = sixteen square meters needed. Twenty three square meters would still be not enough to add another student.

How big are hagwon classrooms? Some I saw were pretty small.

A square meter is think of a square, one meter by one meter?
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: Lazio on July 12, 2021, 08:16:57 am
Sorry, but I haven't confused anything.  8m2 means only and exactly what I said. You definitely thought I had that wrong, yeah? (With a "so" and three "?")   

How many students would fit in a box 2.8m X 2.8m?  One student can easily fit in that size, right?  My apartment could hold 6-8 students at that spread, 2 more if I put one in the bathroom and one in the entryway.  That's a lot more than one.

Did you look at the links I provided?



Again, it was pretty clear from the start that the article I quoted meant 8 square meters. You then wrote that you think it means eight square meters and not 64 square meters. Only you thought about the latter version.
I couldn't have imagined how you, or anyone would even think it could mean 64sqm. That is why I wrote the ???.

It's so simple. No need to box anyone in, or put them in the bathroom or the entryway. Just divide the total floor space by eight. That's it.
Like LI wrote above, 8 square meters is pretty small when you consider hagwon classroom sizes. Although the quote said 1 person and not student but I believe teachers aren't counted into this. Still, a 23 square meter room would allow a teacher and no more than 2 students. That is a big room in a hagwon. I have seen plenty, smaller than that.
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: L I on July 12, 2021, 08:20:30 am
A 23.9 square meter room would allow a teacher and no more than one student.

A 31.9 square meter room would allow a teacher and no more than two students.
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: L I on July 12, 2021, 08:29:19 am
A Goshiwon is a small room somewhere around three square meters that students will often live in for a number of months in order to focus on a test.

https://www.studyinkorea.go.kr/en/overseas_info/allnew_lifeinKorea.do

The cost ranges from 200,000 to 550,000KRW per month.
___________________ ________________
TL;DR- Some people live in rooms that are three square meters.
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: Mr C on July 12, 2021, 09:06:49 am
Again, it was pretty clear from the start that the article I quoted meant 8 square meters. You then wrote that you think it means eight square meters and not 64 square meters. Only you thought about the latter version.
I couldn't have imagined how you, or anyone would even think it could mean 64sqm. That is why I wrote the ???.


So you anticipated what I was going to write, and pre-emptively put the ???

Because that came before further discussion of the meaning of squares.  I had only said that 8m2 means 2.8m X 2.8m and you clearly thought that was wrong.  So, ???
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: Lazio on July 12, 2021, 09:26:51 am
So you anticipated what I was going to write, and pre-emptively put the ???

Because that came before further discussion of the meaning of squares.  I had only said that 8m2 means 2.8m X 2.8m and you clearly thought that was wrong.  So, ???

I didn't anticipate anything. I had no idea what you were thinking when you brought in 8m2 vs. (8m)2.
Also wasn't clear why you would think that 8 square meters/student is not much of a restriction.
Anyways, you seem to be doing better than many Korean families by living in a 70-80 square meter apartment by yourself. And your bathroom alone is 8 square meters! Must be pretty awesome.
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: Mr C on July 12, 2021, 09:43:19 am
I didn't anticipate anything. I had no idea what you were thinking when you brought in 8m2 vs. (8m)2.
Also wasn't clear why you would think that 8 square meters/student is not much of a restriction.
Anyways, you seem to be doing better than many Korean families by living in a 70-80 square meter apartment by yourself. And your bathroom alone is 8 square meters! Must be pretty awesome.

Dude, you have not explained why 2.8X2.8m = 8m2 elicited this "??? So what is 8m2" response.

That is all I wrote, and you clearly did not understand what 8m2 is.
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: Lazio on July 12, 2021, 10:05:40 am
Dude, you have not explained why 2.8X2.8m = 8m2 elicited this "??? So what is 8m2" response.

That is all I wrote, and you clearly did not understand what 8m2 is.

It was meant as: what is 8 square meters TO YOU?
Also, from your post it wasn't clear whether you mention the box of 2.8 meters per side for the former or the latter measurement:
I think they're saying 8m2, not (8m)2.  That makes it a box 2.8 meters per side.

While we are at it: Can you explain how would you fit 8-10 times eight square meters into your one room apartment? Unless you moved since or you happened to live in the largest one room apartment in the country.

My apartment rental is 700,000W .  It's just a one room, but has a nice view, 10 minute walk to school, and is in a good area w/ subway station in the basement.
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: Mr C on July 12, 2021, 10:51:14 am
It was meant as: what is 8 square meters TO YOU?
Also, from your post it wasn't clear whether you mention the box of 2.8 meters per side for the former or the latter measurement:


What latter measurement?  There was only one. 

Just not buying this.
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: Lazio on July 12, 2021, 10:55:48 am
What latter measurement?  There was only one. 

Just not buying this.

I quoted your post. 8m2, vs. (8m)2

So how big is your apartment if you don't mind me asking.
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: tylerthegloob on July 12, 2021, 11:01:50 am
from the simple english wiki, because i havent been in a math classroom in a long time and i'm simple

A "square metre" is not the same thing as a "metre square" - although it is true that exactly 1 square metre is exactly 1 meter square. But that only works for the numbers 1 and 0; no others.

For example, a square that is 2 metres long and 2 metres wide has 4 square metres of area.

2m * 2m = 4m2

But a square that is 4 metres squared would have 4 metres on each side. This means it would have 16 square metres of area.

4m * 4m = 16m2

That is, (4m)2 is 4 meters squared, whereas 4m2 is 4 square meters.


???
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: Mr C on July 12, 2021, 11:27:35 am
I quoted your post. 8m2, vs. (8m)2

So how big is your apartment if you don't mind me asking.

Oh, brother.  I'll tell you this:  It's at least 4 m X  12 m, which is what it needs to be to hold six students. 

See, not hard to figure, if you, y'know, understand how area works. 
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: tylerthegloob on July 12, 2021, 11:30:21 am
how high are the ceilings though..? :(
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: Mr C on July 12, 2021, 11:34:48 am
how high are the ceilings though..? :(
Maybe because it's Monday, but this thread is irking me more than the whole egg roll thing.
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: macollie on July 12, 2021, 11:35:44 am
how high are the ceilings though..? :(

For that matter... how low are the floors?
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: sammie5460 on July 12, 2021, 11:51:20 am
If Mina has 60 apples and gives 12 to Greg, what is the height of your walls?
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: Lazio on July 12, 2021, 12:20:13 pm
Oh, brother.  I'll tell you this:  It's at least 4 m X  12 m, which is what it needs to be to hold six students. 

See, not hard to figure, if you, y'know, understand how area works. 

+ a humongous bathroom and an entry way...
Wow! You are doing great!
Gotta go to work now and make money, so I can afford to live in a nice, big place like you.
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: Ellynmellyn on July 12, 2021, 12:57:19 pm
Do we have to answer this question with math? Suppose a kindergarten has 7 classes, and 1 child with a positive Covid test. An unknown number of teachers (X) greater than 2 now require a two week quarantine, leaving the school understaffed. How many weeks of online class (Y) should they have? Solve for Y and make a graph.

 Thursday evening they told us this week would be all online. Twenty minutes before the kids went home Friday they changed their mind and had us unpack all the books we were sending home for online class because hagwons are not included in the schools having to close rule. Sunday I get a text that a kid (not in my homeroom) and her father were tested Saturday and are Covid positive with symptoms. Most of us got tested Sunday and had to turn up this afternoon after our results came back. Currently organizing books for the parents to pick up and preparing for online class starting Wednesday.

The two homeroom teachers from the class with the positive case are on 2 week quarantine and are expected to teach class from home. Another teacher got 'inconclusive' this morning, and if her results come back positive they told her to teach online class from her home (or even from the hospital if she has to stay there). We'll find out about the last few who tested this morning...

It took me like an hour to prepare for 3 days of 80 minute online classes and now we're sitting around asking our boss why we cant leave early (my boss got tested this morning and hasn't got her results back, but is here anyway...)
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: leaponover on July 12, 2021, 02:14:59 pm
So glad I'm not in the 'capital area'.  This all sounds like a nightmare.  I don't think I have a high enough math ability to live there, that's for sure!
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: hangook77 on July 21, 2021, 01:26:04 pm
schools still normal here for now.  Summer vacation will be here soon.  Still have a short English camp at my main school for part of next week.  Still normal for now.  Maybe will be canceled August 23rd or so when the schools get back.  That'd be sweet.  Last year with online classes most schools never asked me to do much of anything.  I think one school had me call all the kids from a list and ask a couple of simple questions. 
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: L I on September 01, 2021, 08:48:26 am
I'm surprised an adult wouldn't understand the very simple concept of square meters/feet.

How comically ironic the person speaking with insulting condescension is the one who got it wrong.

Hagwon classrooms are definitely big enough for more than 1 student. Classrooms aren't bigger than 2.8mx2.8m?

Firstly, 2.8mx2.8m is less than 8m2.

Secondly, take a tape measure to see how big a meter is. It's big! Make a square. Each side is one meter. How many of those big@$$ squares can fit in a room? That's how many square meters the room is.

The legal parameters for a socially distanced hogwon would be at least 16 square meters for a teacher and one student. (Why the f wouldn't a teacher count as a person?) Anything shy of 24 square meters wouldn't cut it for adding another student ... unless the teacher is instructing remotely beamed to a hagwon classroom screen, which I doubt. If that were the case - online learning - the kids wouldn't need to travel to the hagwon.

consider a typical hagwon classroom size of somewhere between 15 and 20 square meters.

a 23 square meter room [...]. That is a big room in a hagwon. I have seen plenty, smaller than that.

TL; DR - Social distancing rules will have a massive impact on Seoul's hagwon industry. Instruction will go online.

(If hagwons are scared enough of potential penalties to follow the rules that is. Not sure if they are. Maybe. Also, parents pay the bills and parents are afraid of coronavirus. That'll mean a lot, too.)
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: D.L.Orean on September 01, 2021, 09:20:14 am
How comically ironic the person speaking with insulting condescension is the one who got it wrong.


We are all familiar with the basic concept of rounding numbers up or down, aren't we? If not here's a link for you. Maybe you can learn something.

https://www.factmonster.com/math-science/mathematics/rounding-numbers-rules-examples-for-fractions-sums (https://www.factmonster.com/math-science/mathematics/rounding-numbers-rules-examples-for-fractions-sums)

 2.82842712475² was rounded to 2.8². Doesn't change the point. A hagwon classroom should be big enough to fit more than one student.

And...
 Let’s not act immature. It’s lame. Best to cut back on the inanity.
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: L I on September 01, 2021, 09:26:48 am
To person inspecting hagwon: “I know the rule is at least 8 square meters per person, but how about we go a bit under. Are you familiar with the concept of rounding? 7.84 square meters per person should suffice, right?”
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: D.L.Orean on September 01, 2021, 09:36:45 am
To person inspecting hagwon: “I know the rule is at least 8 square meters per person, but how about we go a bit under. Are you familiar with the concept of rounding? 7.84 square meters per person should suffice, right?”

Fortunately, we aren't talking with any inspectors and are instead only discussing the concept of space. A hagwon classroom should be big enough to fit more than one student.

Let’s not act immature. It’s lame. Best to cut back on the inanity.

You're actively bringing down the quality of this forum. We should all be aiming to contribute high quality posts. Be better.
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: L I on September 01, 2021, 09:57:10 am
A hagwon classroom should be big enough to fit more than one student.

Did you see what was written above? One teacher plus one student is what would be in a classroom sized 16 square meters to 23.99 square meters.

Ironically, the copy and paste job in attempt to mock and insult actually applies to you. Hopefully you’ll up your writing game someday and be open minded enough to admit you were wrong. Highly unlikely… but anything’s possible.
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: D.L.Orean on September 01, 2021, 10:02:46 am
Did you see what was written above? One teacher plus one student is what would be in a classroom sized 16 square meters to 23.99 square meters.

Ironically, the copy and paste job in attempt to mock and insult actually applies to you. Hopefully you’ll up your writing game someday and be open minded enough to admit you were wrong. Highly unlikely… but anything’s possible.

Teachers don't count. And do you really think that they won't count 23.99m² as 24m²?

I believe that if a city inspector was in a classroom 23.99m² he would sign off on 3 students being allowed.

I hope one day you'll live up to your own words and actually try to inject this forum with high quality posts.
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: L I on September 01, 2021, 10:07:53 am
Teachers don't count.

Says who? The link said people. Are teachers not people? We’re talking about social distancing here.
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: D.L.Orean on September 01, 2021, 10:11:55 am
Says who? The link said people. Are teachers not people? We’re talking about social distancing here.

What link?
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: L I on September 01, 2021, 10:19:39 am
“After 6 p.m., gatherings are limited to two people, even for the fully vaccinated.”

“Private academies will be closed after 10 p.m., and can only allow one person per 8 square meters.''

https://www.google.com/amp/m.koreaherald.com/amp/view.php%3fud=20210709000756
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: D.L.Orean on September 01, 2021, 10:20:29 am
The link that said this:

“Private academies will be closed after 10 p.m., and can only allow one person per 8 square meters.''

https://www.google.com/amp/m.koreaherald.com/amp/view.php%3fud=20210709000756

It was one student per 8m². Couldn't possibly tell you why the Korea Herald would write 'per person'. You'd have to email them to find out.
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: L I on September 01, 2021, 10:24:27 am
It was one student per 8m².

It was? Where’d you read that? Source? Could be true, but we’d like to see it in writing.

If more than two people are banned from gathering after 6pm does that mean hagwons can only have multiple people together pre 6pm?
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: D.L.Orean on September 01, 2021, 10:31:48 am
It was? Where’d you read that? Source? Could be true, but we’d like to see it in writing.

If more than two people are banned from gathering after 6pm does that mean hagwons can only have multiple people together pre 6pm?

Does a class in a hagwon count as a gathering?
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: OnNut81 on September 01, 2021, 10:44:09 am
It was? Where’d you read that? Source? Could be true, but we’d like to see it in writing.

If more than two people are banned from gathering after 6pm does that mean hagwons can only have multiple people together pre 6pm?

YOU'D like to see it in writing for whatever reason.  I'll take D.L. Orean at his word. 
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: D.L.Orean on September 01, 2021, 10:47:42 am
YOU'D like to see it in writing for whatever reason.  I'll take D.L. Orean at his word.

Also completely irrelevant now in September.
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: L I on September 01, 2021, 11:30:51 am
Pretty sure the social distancing rules are still in effect in September.

I saw a source that said “people” in hagwons.  Anyone have one that says “students”? No? Then it’d be wiser to go with people rather students, until it can be shown otherwise.
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: L I on September 01, 2021, 11:40:18 am
Does a class in a hagwon count as a gathering?

I don’t know. That’s why I asked (the readers). When people are gathered together, a virus spreads. How “essential” are in person (rather than online) hagwon classes? That’s subjective. Open to interpretation. What’d the Korean government decide?
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: D.L.Orean on September 01, 2021, 11:52:21 am
Pretty sure the social distancing rules are still in effect in September.

I saw a source that said “people” in hagwons.  Anyone have one that says “students”? No? Then it’d be wiser to go with people rather students, until it can be shown otherwise.

If we want to talk about current restrictions, there is nothing about 8m²
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: L I on September 01, 2021, 11:59:40 am
There isn’t? When did that get dropped?
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: D.L.Orean on September 01, 2021, 12:01:22 pm
There isn’t? When did that get dropped?

6m² OR an empty desk between students
Title: Re: Is your hagwon open?
Post by: Mr C on September 02, 2021, 09:29:51 pm
Call out to John Stossel: please do a video about calculating area and estimation.  And also on when it's time to just stop, for Heaven's sake!