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International => East Asia => China => Topic started by: hangook77 on May 13, 2021, 12:29:54 pm

Title: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 13, 2021, 12:29:54 pm
Some samples of apartments in China.

Outside Shenzhen, many deal can be had.  Decent enough places.  Not the newest, not the dumpiest either.  Better than some foreigner apartments here.  Free apartments or apartment allowance jobs.  Also notice the cheap living costs like utilities.  Get more than 20,000 rmb salary with apartment and more than 25,000 rmb with no apartment and no allowance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QJDHD3pgQI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq-sbMxZx1c

Seems paying for apartments in Tier 2 or most places are 400 US or 2500 RMB aprox.  Get low 20's salary 3000 rmb allowance for apartment.  (Or get higher pay too.) 




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeuRPl8Dhgw


Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: plan b on May 13, 2021, 01:53:24 pm
Hangook, thank you for posting this.
What a discrepancy between China and Korea.
Many of us have gotten used to our shoebox apartments here, and its obvious that one can live better over there.

I don't think I can live in China, as I've been there several times and find the country "rough" to say the least, but I can see the appeal, and I might try a year there if they would release the Canadians they are holding in prison right now on bogus charges.

Forget the haters on here...many have Stockholm syndrome from living in Korea for so long.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 13, 2021, 02:00:45 pm
Hangook, thank you for posting this.
What a discrepancy between China and Korea.
Many of us have gotten used to our shoebox apartments here, and its obvious that one can live better over there.

I don't think I can live in China, as I've been there several times and find the country "rough" to say the least, but I can see the appeal, and I might try a year there if they would release the Canadians they are holding in prison right now on bogus charges.

Forget the haters on here...many have Stockholm syndrome from living in Korea for so long.
I don't think anyone is disputing that China offers better pay and living housing conditions.

I think people's issue with China boils down to two major things
1) Air pollution that makes Korea look like a paradise
2) The Chinese government.

Also, I find it amusing that people who flip their lid over a sign-in sheet are touting the perks of CHINA.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: Kurt Sorensen on May 13, 2021, 02:26:45 pm
I don't think anyone is disputing that China offers better pay and living conditions.

I think people's issue with China boils down to two major things
1) Air pollution that makes Korea look like a paradise
2) The Chinese government.

Absolutely agree.
I also think that hangook77 is posting some good stuff for people who are interested in heading over to China. Just not my cup of tea for past stated reasons.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: tylerthegloob on May 13, 2021, 02:37:53 pm
Just waiting for 6 guys to come and flame and troll me for sharing useful apartment info in China for no particular logical or sane reason.  Anyways, here's the info. 
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BrilliantSpiritedCaiman-size_restricted.gif)
"need a light?"

i think it's cool that ESL is booming in china. i hope it opens up the country to, well, being more open about things (freedom 'murica yee'haw).

one of those apartments looking out over the city reminds me of my friends apartment that was on the coast and looked out over the ocean. absolute killer view. his apartment was a bit bigger and newer than mine too (way higher utility fee for some reason though).
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 13, 2021, 02:53:27 pm
Absolutely agree.
I also think that hangook77 is posting some good stuff for people who are interested in heading over to China. Just not my cup of tea for past stated reasons.

Yeah exactly.  I have no problem with folks not wanting to go.  Just no need to flame me for showing what's out there.  I have a still okay set up for now here.  But I see the writing on the wall for me personally.  Rising living costs and salaries, even mine, not rising over time.  Still better than average but honestly, in inflationary terms I am starting to lose ground compared to my purchasing power that I had years ago on a much lower salary.  So, I may have to consider the jump myself.  I research the hell out of things before I jump in.  I choose to share the benefits of my research with others.

Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 13, 2021, 02:53:56 pm
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BrilliantSpiritedCaiman-size_restricted.gif)
"need a light?"
NNNNNEEEERRRRRDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 13, 2021, 03:00:23 pm
Hangook, thank you for posting this.
What a discrepancy between China and Korea.
Many of us have gotten used to our shoebox apartments here, and its obvious that one can live better over there.

I don't think I can live in China, as I've been there several times and find the country "rough" to say the least, but I can see the appeal, and I might try a year there if they would release the Canadians they are holding in prison right now on bogus charges.

Forget the haters on here...many have Stockholm syndrome from living in Korea for so long.

Thanks for the feedback.  I understand the worry about the Canadians.  Sadly, I don't think they are released until the executive in Canada is.  But ESL teachers aren't targets.  Rich Chinese want foreigners for their kids and there would be a mass exit if they started arresting esl teachers.  A Canadian teacher was arrested for being on the wrong visa at the time.   They might have jailed her for a day or two and then deported her.  You have to go on the legal Z visa just like you have to be on a legal E2 here or another visa for another type of school.  Korea has also held and deported for not being on the right type of visa.  Some BC teachers in an international school were on E2s but were suppose to be on another and the Korean government kicked them out too.  Sad the foreign teachers have to pay when it is the schools that should.  But that is for another topic.  That said, I completely respect the ethical angle and desire to boycott if that is your route. 
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 13, 2021, 03:02:38 pm
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BrilliantSpiritedCaiman-size_restricted.gif)
"need a light?"

i think it's cool that ESL is booming in china. i hope it opens up the country to, well, being more open about things (freedom 'murica yee'haw).

one of those apartments looking out over the city reminds me of my friends apartment that was on the coast and looked out over the ocean. absolute killer view. his apartment was a bit bigger and newer than mine too (way higher utility fee for some reason though).

I assume you don't want China to be another 'merica. 

Anyhow, some folks get lucky and get a nice apartment.  When I took the provided apartments they were always shoeboxes with problems.  I usually took the money and got my own.  Only downside is having to pay deposits myself to get something decent.  Some newer places are really nice, but the deposits and rents are rising for those even out here in the provinces. 
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: tylerthegloob on May 13, 2021, 03:11:51 pm
But ESL teachers aren't targets.  Rich Chinese want foreigners for their kids and there would be a mass exit if they started arresting esl teachers.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-education-idUSKCN1V2233

just some food for thought (thats a sc1 cheat code). article from 2009. thought i'd save some people a click and posted the most interesting parts. other parts were about people in trouble for drug use/random testing/random apartment searches

"Switzerland-based Education First (EF), which runs 300 schools across 50 Chinese cities, has seen a “significant” increase in detentions in China for alleged offences including drugs, fighting and cybersecurity violations, according to a June 27 internal notice sent to employees and seen by Reuters.

It said EF staff had been “picked up by police at their home and work as well as in bars and nightclubs and have been questioned and brought in for drug testing”. The notice said the school had also received warnings from embassies about the rise in arrests."

...

"Last September, China launched a wide-reaching campaign to remove foreign influences from education, including efforts to ban foreign history courses, outlaw self-taught material and revise textbooks to focus on core Communist Party ideology.

The ongoing effort, which includes follow-up checks and random inspections at schools, is designed to promote “patriotism” and “core socialist values”, reflecting a “love for the motherland”, China’s education ministry said at the time."

...

"“When (schools) get a lot of applications they feel they are in a commanding position,” said Pang, whose firm has handled dozens of labor arbitrations between teachers and schools in recent months.

Emily, a 25-year old English teacher from the U.S. state of Utah, said a school in the southwestern Chinese city of Chengdu held her passport for 10 weeks in late 2018, refusing to hand it back until she threatened to call police.

“There was always an excuse, like registering my dorm with police or some administration to transfer my visa ... at one point they just said they were keeping it safe,” she said, asking not to publish her full name or the name of the school because of an ongoing arbitration.

The Chengdu school did not respond to phone calls by Reuters. The HR employee who Emily said had held her passport confirmed she had worked at the school, but declined to comment on the case via a messaging app.

The school docked her 16,000 yuan ($2,269) monthly salary by 1,200 yuan for an unexpected “agency” fee, according to documents provided to her by the school before and after her arrival.

Lawyers say the practice is not unusual, and arbitration typically costs more than the withheld wages.

“What has changed is that many government officials think that kicking out Western influences like English teachers is doing the Party’s work, and the schools are taking advantage of it” said Harris, the Seattle lawyer, who now advises against foreigners teaching in China. “The risks of going to China to teach far outweigh the rewards.”"


I assume you don't want China to be another 'merica.
no, in some ways i definitely want china to be more like 'murica. specifically freedom of information type stuff
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 13, 2021, 03:24:58 pm
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-education-idUSKCN1V2233

just some food for thought (thats a sc1 cheat code). article from 2009. thought i'd save some people a click and posted the most interesting parts. other parts were about people in trouble for drug use/random testing/random apartment searches

"Switzerland-based Education First (EF), which runs 300 schools across 50 Chinese cities, has seen a “significant” increase in detentions in China for alleged offences including drugs, fighting and cybersecurity violations, according to a June 27 internal notice sent to employees and seen by Reuters.

It said EF staff had been “picked up by police at their home and work as well as in bars and nightclubs and have been questioned and brought in for drug testing”. The notice said the school had also received warnings from embassies about the rise in arrests."

...

"Last September, China launched a wide-reaching campaign to remove foreign influences from education, including efforts to ban foreign history courses, outlaw self-taught material and revise textbooks to focus on core Communist Party ideology.

The ongoing effort, which includes follow-up checks and random inspections at schools, is designed to promote “patriotism” and “core socialist values”, reflecting a “love for the motherland”, China’s education ministry said at the time."

...

"“When (schools) get a lot of applications they feel they are in a commanding position,” said Pang, whose firm has handled dozens of labor arbitrations between teachers and schools in recent months.

Emily, a 25-year old English teacher from the U.S. state of Utah, said a school in the southwestern Chinese city of Chengdu held her passport for 10 weeks in late 2018, refusing to hand it back until she threatened to call police.

“There was always an excuse, like registering my dorm with police or some administration to transfer my visa ... at one point they just said they were keeping it safe,” she said, asking not to publish her full name or the name of the school because of an ongoing arbitration.

The Chengdu school did not respond to phone calls by Reuters. The HR employee who Emily said had held her passport confirmed she had worked at the school, but declined to comment on the case via a messaging app.

The school docked her 16,000 yuan ($2,269) monthly salary by 1,200 yuan for an unexpected “agency” fee, according to documents provided to her by the school before and after her arrival.

Lawyers say the practice is not unusual, and arbitration typically costs more than the withheld wages.

“What has changed is that many government officials think that kicking out Western influences like English teachers is doing the Party’s work, and the schools are taking advantage of it” said Harris, the Seattle lawyer, who now advises against foreigners teaching in China. “The risks of going to China to teach far outweigh the rewards.”"

no, in some ways i definitely want china to be more like 'murica. specifically freedom of information type stuff

Sounds like Korea was until a few years ago.  You gotta have a backbone, do some research, know what to expect, and have a backbone.  No one's keeping my passport.  Police are called right away.  (Girl in article eventually did this.)  I think China, like Korea in the 80's or 90's attracted a lot of creepy characters, back then.  Heck a bunch of waygooks here were rounded up in 2005 or so and deported becasue they were on illegal visas and with fake diplomas.  (I rememebed reading the story after my grandma sent it to me when I was planning to come over.  I told her I would get a legal visa or not come over.  I wouldn't end up like them.  She was worried at the time.) 

I can't even begin to tell you about the meetings new teachers on a new E2 had to attend 10 years ago where they were lectured and told a bunch of racist nonsense.  I never went as I kept the same employer.  A friend showed me a video of it.  Craziness.  This country here was rife with open xenophobia until not too long ago.  The labor board also ruled in favor of Korean employers because you were the foreign devil.  Korea has changed a lot in that regard and that doesn't happen anymore. 

Anyways, ebbs and flows.  You got paid a lot more in inflationary terms though you did have to put up with more (in someways).  Though this stuff never affected me personally.

Best advice I have for anyone who does go over to China, don't get comfortable with the extra money in your pocket and spend hard.  Keep a frugal lifestyle and send most of your money home for at least a couple of years.  Build up some savings and leave that be or have that as your investing money or whatever.  Don't get lulled in by the big city lights and try to put down roots.  You can after 3 or 4 years.  There are still risks like a government not renewing a visa after a few years or something.  Downside of China.  But make your money and send it all out so you can live later.  I don't think it is a long term destination even though I am all for going eventually.     
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: StillInKorea on May 13, 2021, 11:58:25 pm
Those apartments are not that special. Outside of major cities, an apartment of a similar size in Korea would be around 500k a month with a 10 million deposit.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: Kyndo on May 14, 2021, 07:25:02 am
Those apartments are not that special. Outside of major cities, an apartment of a similar size in Korea would be around 500k a month with a 10 million deposit.
I was about to say, those look a lot like my first non school provided apartment, and yeah, 500k/m with 10mill down is *exactly* what I paid for it.

They might be nothing special, but man, they are sooooooooooooooooo much better than your standard EPIK of hagwon provided housing.

*****If you're planning on staying in Korea for more than 2 years, find a nice place to live yourself: the quality of life upgrade is immense.*****
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 14, 2021, 07:45:20 am
I was about to say, those look a lot like my first non school provided apartment, and yeah, 500k/m with 10mill down is *exactly* what I paid for it.

They might be nothing special, but man, they are sooooooooooooooooo much better than your standard EPIK of hagwon provided housing.

*****If you're planning on staying in Korea for more than 2 years, find a nice place to live yourself: the quality of life upgrade is immense.*****

Yes, same here.  I spend the same amount to get an apartment like this.  But a school provided apartment in Korea is rarely this nice.  On rare occasion a school may get you a nice place, but it is rare.  So, the school provided apartment or the place they let you get with an allowance (with no large key deposit) seems nicer than what you are provided for here.  On the other hand half the jobs are in the Seoul Gyeonggi area so the apartments there will cost you much more than 10 million deposit and 500 thousand won a month unless you want to get a small one room. 

So, on comparison, it seems the Chinese apartments are nicer, with better pay, and a cheaper living cost.  China is a large market and can absorb English teachers for years to come without being flooded or crowded with too many teachers. 
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on May 14, 2021, 08:25:01 am
China is a large market and can absorb English teachers for years to come without being flooded or crowded with too many teachers.

I would like to comment on this. While what you say logistically is true and the average Chinese parent wants to have their kid fluent in English and pay big money for it, the government not so much. When I left there in 2019, Zhengzhou, the city I lived in was short of 3,000 English Teachers and the schools and colleges were begging the local authorities to give work permits for more teachers and were met with a brick wall. They were so frustrated. Some government official just decided he didn't like foreigners and that was it, game over.

The local authorities are so corrupt and they just want to enrich themselves at the cost of all, so I am guessing the schools and colleges weren't lining his pockets enough.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 14, 2021, 09:18:54 am
China is a large market and can absorb English teachers for years to come without being flooded or crowded with too many teachers.

I would like to comment on this. While what you say logistically is true and the average Chinese parent wants to have their kid fluent in English and pay big money for it, the government not so much. When I left there in 2019, Zhengzhou, the city I lived in was short of 3,000 English Teachers and the schools and colleges were begging the local authorities to give work permits for more teachers and were met with a brick wall. They were so frustrated. Some government official just decided he didn't like foreigners and that was it, game over.

The local authorities are so corrupt and they just want to enrich themselves at the cost of all, so I am guessing the schools and colleges weren't lining his pockets enough.

Makes sense.  Lots of Korean officials back in the day didn't like foreigners and would decide at the local level to follow their own interpretation of the rules.  Shitty for them.  Fortunately, lots of other places in China still hiring and folks rotate their jobs every couple of years like they do here.  Hopefully, that asshat bigot moves on soon.  Korea had so many of them back in the day.  WHo was that President who got elected in 2002 over pushing anti Americanism?  Around same time, redone "Surfing USA" song done to "****** USA".  Psy got busted for nasty remarks he said around this era years later.  Attack Americans, kill their families, etc.  Gusts of popular feeling blog dictate how racist folks were here too.  China is bound to have some anti western bigots.  I suspect as teachers demand grows, these officials will be more and more over ruled.  I do remember I lived in a rural town happy to get a foreigner after struggling to get one.  But another small town had all the bigots who didn't want foreigners.  The Koreans there even told them they didn't need foreigners to teach English and that they were only because the national government forced them to have them but didn't want them there locally.  I did an overnight camp with them (my ed office lent me to them for a few days) and what a difference between their office and mine.  They pulled their crap on me and I pushed back.  Then sup there told me about respect for your seniors bla bla bla.  I had only been in Korea a few weeks.  I told him: "You have to give respect to get respect".  I think he stood there stunned at the time.  Ha ha.  Oddly enough that ajossi supervisor came to like me later on and I transferred to another town and I worked with him on some extra teaching tasks for some extra money.  I came to like him.  He gave some of the other foreigners a hard time, but he never did to me later on.  So, good experience.  But it does show how messed up Korea was at one time. This is a totally different country during the last several years.  The risk taking you use to take here I guess you take in China.  More risks, more rewards, all that. 
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: Kyndo on May 14, 2021, 10:04:50 am
Unfortunately, the big difference between Korea and China is that in China, the anti-Westerner sentiment is codified in the system of government. It is official government policy to reduce Western influence whenever possible. While the demand for English teachers may be high, and may continue to rise, the government will do what it can to ensure that they cause as little cultural pollution as possible.
Travel restrictions, lack of economic freedom, constant 'random' legal harassment will continue to be policy rather than the actions of a few racist individuals.
China is a beautiful country, and there is a lot to experience there, but one should absolutely go forward there with one's eyes open.
My understanding is that most people won't find trouble there, but for those that do, it'll be worse on them than it would be over here in Korea.

"More risk, more reward" might not be a bad way of looking at it.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 14, 2021, 01:41:39 pm
Unfortunately, the big difference between Korea and China is that in China, the anti-Westerner sentiment is codified in the system of government. It is official government policy to reduce Western influence whenever possible. While the demand for English teachers may be high, and may continue to rise, the government will do what it can to ensure that they cause as little cultural pollution as possible.
Travel restrictions, lack of economic freedom, constant 'random' legal harassment will continue to be policy rather than the actions of a few racist individuals.
China is a beautiful country, and there is a lot to experience there, but one should absolutely go forward there with one's eyes open.
My understanding is that most people won't find trouble there, but for those that do, it'll be worse on them than it would be over here in Korea.

"More risk, more reward" might not be a bad way of looking at it.

Yeah, for sure.  Good advice.  Korea has changed a lot in the past decade or so.  I guess Korea had shades of the risk when I was first looking to come over.  Hakwons could screw you.  Some owners could be friends with mobsters or something or be a delinquent paying his gambling debts etc.  Could be a different kind of danger if you aren't paid and get pushy about it.  Some Korean guys apparently would try to fight you in the streets in the 90s if they saw you with a Korean woman.  Racist cops would take their side because they were Korean.  Foreign women working in a hakwon arguing with male owner getting slapped in the face for speaking back to a man.  Foreign woman living alone in a villa and a break in and raped.  Korean cops would do nothing about it and tell her to leave Korea.  Deliberately bungle the rape kit if they even had one.  They would blame her for it anyways.  Korea wasn't so bright not that long ago.  It has only become this safe risk free place the last few years, hence I assume a different type of teaching coming here too.  Less of a risk taker. 

Korea much more of a risk when I came over.  Roll of the dice whether you got a good job or a bad one.  Law didn't always take your side either.  Lots of racism you had to put up with too.  Anyhow, China is like Korea use to be. 

If I go myself soon, I would go to work and send as much home as I could for a couple of years and probably avoid foreign hotspots.  I would focus on money to build as much so I could leave or if a local official didn't renew the visa, then no problem.  I did what I went to do.  I wouldn't spend too much money becoming invested like I did in Korea (in the beginning).  IE  Maybe take a school with a dorm and get everything paid for.  Get a 23 to 25 thousand k rmb salary.  Send home like 17k cause I was living so cheap.  (17k almost 3 million won now.)  Then in the summer for 2 months if paid peanuts, I'd be in Canada or the US anyhow and spend some savings a little but most not touch.  Withdraw some of it via UnionPay card from Canada.  I'd negotiate at least 5000 rmb for two months and maybe 25,000 rmb for the other 10.  Get free utilities and room and meals.  So no expenses.  I would go to make most money and get out.  Or maybe move to a place with an apartment and a life after that within China.  As long as I have some cash in Canadian bank account before that then I've got something no matter what. 

Everyone will have a different plan.  But I'd say don't blow the extra cash you have in your pocket.  Live cheaply and send most of it home. 
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: chimp on May 16, 2021, 07:48:13 pm
Dem risk and danger times in the rough-and-ready Korea of 2005. Back then you were moving to an industrialized country in the OECD and didn't know what the hell you were getting into.

People would point and stare, and there were bad bosses that would rip-off workers which is unheard of in Des Moines, IA
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: Mr C on May 16, 2021, 10:01:40 pm
bad bosses that would rip-off workers which is unheard of in Des Moines, IA

You sure about that?
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: VanIslander on May 16, 2021, 10:59:15 pm
Samples vs. Examples.

As an English language teacher, the difference is significant.

Give me a sample and I will TAKE IT.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: MayorHaggar on May 17, 2021, 07:42:53 am
When you apply to EPIK they like to pretend that everyone gets an amazing modern apartment. The reality is that the apartment you get is completely random, and often it's a weird decrepit typical Korean apartment. I'm sure there's a wide range of apartments in China too but I wouldn't assume that everyone gets the same modern apartment.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: CO2 on May 17, 2021, 07:49:38 am
When you apply to EPIK they like to pretend that everyone gets an amazing modern apartment. The reality is that the apartment you get is completely random, and often it's a weird decrepit typical Korean apartment. I'm sure there's a wide range of apartments in China too but I wouldn't assume that everyone gets the same modern apartment.

The people who have shit modern apartments

a) prob aren't going to brag on youtube about it
b) if they do make  youtube vid about it, it might not be as popular as a "nice apt" video. Unless it's a sty, those always get views.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 17, 2021, 07:52:56 am
Dem risk and danger times in the rough-and-ready Korea of 2005. Back then you were moving to an industrialized country in the OECD and didn't know what the hell you were getting into.

People would point and stare, and there were bad bosses that would rip-off workers which is unheard of in Des Moines, IA

I'll tell you out in the provinces, it felt more like a developing country.  Lots of shabby run down buildings too.  The rule of law was not always followed.  Cops and the legal system never took your side in any dispute with a Korean.  Immigration, the labor board if they were friends with your hakwon owner, gave you the boot and ruled in their favor and not yours.  Government officials were constantly trying to get rid of foreign teachers and their "cultural" problems. 
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: D.L.Orean on May 17, 2021, 07:54:38 am
  Cops and the legal system never took your side in any dispute with a Korean.

What first hand experience do you have of this?
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 17, 2021, 08:05:51 am
What first hand experience do you have of this?

Antarctica is extremely cold.  What first hand experience do you have with this?  You can't say it is cold then since you were never there.  You must not be believed under any circumstance.

Your snarky remark aside, that was the way Korea rolled, unless all those people were lying and even foreign investors use to complain about this years ago too.  But since you must know, I did have a friend who went through a divorce and the judge tried to screw him and even said he didn't want to deal with foreigners.  His wife was Korean.  However, he had some connections to some folks and he found a way to get the prosecutors to drop the charges and he told me he had to get him a nice "gift" afterwards.  He had money, was a lawyer in America, and wasn't an English teacher.  If he were and had limtied resources, he would have gotten screwed.  He had good lawyers also and he was going to file a complaint against the judge.  At any rate the open contempt shown.  He also told me he had foreign business friends and they complained about the one sidedness of the legal system back then.  Get in a dispute with a Korean and you would always lose, unless you were very very wealthy. 
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: tylerthegloob on May 17, 2021, 08:29:57 am
foreign investors use to complain about this years ago too
i'm sorry. i really try not to be this person. but i've seen you make this exact mistake like 10 times in the past week and i feel compelled to let this one be the last.

"used to"
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: fka on May 17, 2021, 08:58:15 am
Quote
I did have a friend who went through a divorce and the judge tried to screw him and even said he didn't want to deal with foreigners.  His wife was Korean.  However, he had some connections to some folks and he found a way to get the prosecutors to drop the charges and he told me he had to get him a nice "gift" afterwards. 

Wait a minute... Prosecutors don't file charges in a divorce case. Either it's a criminal case the divorce is irrelevant, or a divorce case, for which no prosecutors should be involved. Which was it?

Quote
He had money, was a lawyer in America, and wasn't an English teacher.  If he were and had limited resources, he would have gotten screwed.  He had good lawyers also and he was going to file a complaint against the judge.

Did he? What was the outcome? Wouldn't he have implicated himself in the bribe since he told you that he paid it?

Was he a practicing lawyer in Korea? If not, what was he doing here? Just curious.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 17, 2021, 12:52:19 pm
Wait a minute... Prosecutors don't file charges in a divorce case. Either it's a criminal case the divorce is irrelevant, or a divorce case, for which no prosecutors should be involved. Which was it?

Did he? What was the outcome? Wouldn't he have implicated himself in the bribe since he told you that he paid it?

Was he a practicing lawyer in Korea? If not, what was he doing here? Just curious.

Yeah, I guess I didn't mention the side story.  She started some shit together with her dad and then he had to drive off staying safe.  He deliberately jumped on the car as he drove off to create extra drama for revenge.  Dad was also a sixth degree black belt.  So another trial going on at the same time.  Was over a decade ago.  Anyways, he got the charges dropped due to some advice from Korean lawyers he knew.  He worked as a common law professor and did some common law legal consulting.  He was a lawyer in America.  Anyways, he got the charges dropped from the prosecutor and had to give him a "nice gift". 

You haven't been here for very long if you don't know how Korea worked until very recently.  Corruption was rampant throughout society.  Heck, a province a friend was working in, the education superintendant took off with a bunch of money and went into hiding due to bribery or something.  This was in the 2000's decade.  Park Guen Hye and other past governments, too.  Connections, what do the Chinese call it - Guangshi?  (I have no clue of the spelling.)  Most East Asian cultures have corruption built into them.  Korea has been cleaning it up in some ways in recent years though. 
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: Aristocrat on May 17, 2021, 01:08:15 pm
No one gives a rats ass except for nerds.

...and English teachers, ESL teachers, anyone looking to hire an English or ESL teacher, anyone looking to learn from an English or ESL teacher.

... rat's ass.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 17, 2021, 01:11:44 pm
...and English teachers, ESL teachers, anyone looking to hire an English or ESL teacher, anyone looking to learn from an English or ESL teacher.

... rat's ass.

I teach speaking and use spell check on ppts and handouts.  Get back to the drawing board. 
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: Aristocrat on May 17, 2021, 01:17:37 pm
I teach speaking and use spell check on ppts and handouts.  Get back to the drawing board. 

No problem at all, that sounds like a 2.1mil won a month kind of job.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: tylerthegloob on May 17, 2021, 01:20:03 pm
shit i guess the students are lucky you don't teach grammar. unfortunately, neither powerpoint nor word find any problem with "I use to like chicken," despite it being wrong.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 17, 2021, 01:22:44 pm
Yeah, I guess I didn't mention the side story.  She started some shit together with her dad and then he had to drive off staying safe.  He deliberately jumped on the car as he drove off to create extra drama for revenge. 
Uhh..... I think this seems like a situation where we might be 1) Aren't getting the whole story and 2) There's a different side to this story.

I have no idea what he was wrapped up in.

I do know that one complaint Koreans have is that foreigners often get treated more leniently and that they get a bunch of special perks (some of these aren't justified at all, others do have some merit). The grass is always greener...
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 17, 2021, 01:27:15 pm
Uhh..... I think this seems like a situation where we might be 1) Aren't getting the whole story and 2) There's a different side to this story.

I have no idea what he was wrapped up in.

I do know that one complaint Koreans have is that foreigners often get treated more leniently and that they get a bunch of special perks (some of these aren't justified at all, others do have some merit). The grass is always greener...

Nope.  English teachers get in a fight with a Korean, even self defence, they get charged.  Cops always take the Koreans side.  A foreign girl gets raped, at least until recently, the cops often deliberately bungled the evidence and before never even wanted to investigate the crime.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 17, 2021, 01:42:37 pm
Nope.  English teachers get in a fight with a Korean, even self defence, they get charged.  Cops always take the Koreans side.  A foreign girl gets raped, at least until recently, the cops often deliberately bungled the evidence and before never even wanted to investigate the crime.
Well, a lot of these stories, frankly, aren't as one-sided in what transpired as are related. The people I've seen who tend to get into these incidents often have some sort of preceding altercation and may be doing some pretty obnoxious or aggressive things themselves. Usually there's alcohol involved. And yes, there are different laws for assault and self-defense here. Often these stories are told by people who were buzzed at the least and often have a stunning lack of self-awareness. "This cab almost hit me (almost hit means he was driving down a party street and you almost stumbled into him), so I kicked a dent into his door. The cops of course took his side."

Generally, what my experience has been is if you're sober and the Korean person is being aggressive and is a known problem, usually the cops will side with you if you're in the right. Sex assault is far worse, but then Korea is generally shit on sex crimes period.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 17, 2021, 01:54:11 pm
Well, a lot of these stories, frankly, aren't as one-sided in what transpired as are related. The people I've seen who tend to get into these incidents often have some sort of preceding altercation and may be doing some pretty obnoxious or aggressive things themselves. Usually there's alcohol involved. And yes, there are different laws for assault and self-defense here. Often these stories are told by people who were buzzed at the least and often have a stunning lack of self-awareness. "This cab almost hit me (almost hit means he was driving down a party street and you almost stumbled into him), so I kicked a dent into his door. The cops of course took his side."

Generally, what my experience has been is if you're sober and the Korean person is being aggressive and is a known problem, usually the cops will side with you if you're in the right. Sex assault is far worse, but then Korea is generally shit on sex crimes period.

You want to make excuses and be an apologist, that's your right to I guess.  No one can take that away from you. 
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 17, 2021, 02:32:56 pm
You want to make excuses and be an apologist, that's your right to I guess.  No one can take that away from you. 
No one is making excuses or being an apologist. I'm just pointing out what is the case when it comes to many of these incidents
1) We're only getting one side of the story and it's the side we are most sympathetic too
2) Alcohol is usually involved
3) Often the person(s) on either side or both sides claiming to be the victims are both at fault at various stages
4) The person communicating to the police is often speaking in English to a non-native speaker, is emotional, and is inebriated and thus it is going to happen that they won't be understood the best
5) The people who seem to repeatedly get into these incidents tend to often represent the rule of "running into assholes all day"
6) If we're getting 2nd or 3rd hand accounts of this, the details have often gotten exaggerated
7)  A first hand re-telling is little better. "What? You didn't mention the fact that you were obnoxiously loud in an Izakaya and the next table asked you to keep your voices down and that's when things kicked off? You think that might have been relevant to why the cops didn't take your side?"

Now don't get me wrong. I have seen cops blatantly taking the side of Koreans without cause, but it is not that often and usually someone else noticing the scene (even a subordinate) will get this look on their face of things being wrong. And of course, I have seen plenty of times where the Korean police take the foreigner's side and show tremendous patience.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 17, 2021, 03:02:40 pm
No one is making excuses or being an apologist. I'm just pointing out what is the case when it comes to many of these incidents
1) We're only getting one side of the story and it's the side we are most sympathetic too
2) Alcohol is usually involved
3) Often the person(s) on either side or both sides claiming to be the victims are both at fault at various stages
4) The person communicating to the police is often speaking in English to a non-native speaker, is emotional, and is inebriated and thus it is going to happen that they won't be understood the best
5) The people who seem to repeatedly get into these incidents tend to often represent the rule of "running into assholes all day"
6) If we're getting 2nd or 3rd hand accounts of this, the details have often gotten exaggerated
7)  A first hand re-telling is little better. "What? You didn't mention the fact that you were obnoxiously loud in an Izakaya and the next table asked you to keep your voices down and that's when things kicked off? You think that might have been relevant to why the cops didn't take your side?"

Now don't get me wrong. I have seen cops blatantly taking the side of Koreans without cause, but it is not that often and usually someone else noticing the scene (even a subordinate) will get this look on their face of things being wrong. And of course, I have seen plenty of times where the Korean police take the foreigner's side and show tremendous patience.

Get in a fight with a Korean and see what happens especially if they are running off at the mouth in Korean and you are speaking in English who gets listened to and who doesn't.  While I haven't had any problems myself, I don't dismiss others who have had.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 17, 2021, 04:33:31 pm
Get in a fight with a Korean and see what happens especially if they are running off at the mouth in Korean and you are speaking in English who gets listened to and who doesn't.  While I haven't had any problems myself, I don't dismiss others who have had.
I've had stolen property recovered by the Korean police. In 11 years of hard drinking I've had one fight with a complete stranger, and that guy was off his gourd and fighting half the bar. Otherwise dustups between friends and various group vs. group "hold me back" bench clearing type nonsense. There was some ajosshi who tried to get on my case and punched me in the stomach weaker than some of my 3rd graders. If you want to call that a "fight" go ahead.

Ive seen friends or randoms get into fights and the ones that were acting like assholes, yeah they had things go against them. Of course, them being assholes, they didn't blame themselves. Of course it was racism, not because you first touched some girl without permission, then got into a fight with her bf after he told you to stop all while claiming "she wanted it" And not realizing youre lucky to just be told to pay 500k won.

Other times, no damage done, mutual apologies, people move on. And a few times when people were outright assaulted the cops quickly dealt with it.

If people are habitually encountering the police and getting "bad treatment", as NETs, you have to wonder what they're up to.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: Aristocrat on May 18, 2021, 07:53:56 am
Other times, no damage done, mutual apologies, people move on. And a few times when people were outright assaulted the cops quickly dealt with it.

If people are habitually encountering the police and getting "bad treatment", as NETs, you have to wonder what they're up to.

I'm not taking hangook's alarmist, conspiracy theorist side here, but things typically are skewed against the foreigner.

I have 2 friends/acquaintances in the police, one I met at the track who asked me to help him prepare for his police physical exam and the other was a former temp-teacher. I see them now and then. The lady who used to cut my hair is a massive blabbermouth and is married to policeman, she'd constantly complain about her husband to me.

Anyways, here's what I've pieced together:

- If an officer is involved in any kind of incident, they'd have to cut down a whole forest to supply the amount of forms he/she will
  have to fill out. With this in mind, they do everything they can to get both parties to settle or conclude the matter as quickly as
  possible. Worst case, justice takes a back seat.

- There's a HUGE drinking culture within the police.

- The kinds of people who enter the force, particularly in smaller cities/towns, are oftentimes the laziest men looking for a job
  that pays them to park their car out of sight and spend most of their days sleeping.

- If you're blathering on in English after an incident with a Korean, the officer has the authority to make judgement on the spot
  and taking the Koreans side over going through the trouble of translating what you have to say is the path of least resistance.
  Ideally, he's just going to judge by facial expressions and call 50-50 or whatever gets things sorted with the least amount of
  work.

Somehow related, but I find it wise to stay away from places where I'll find lots of drinkers.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: Kayos on May 18, 2021, 08:16:51 am
I was about to say, those look a lot like my first non school provided apartment, and yeah, 500k/m with 10mill down is *exactly* what I paid for it.

They might be nothing special, but man, they are sooooooooooooooooo much better than your standard EPIK of hagwon provided housing.

*****If you're planning on staying in Korea for more than 2 years, find a nice place to live yourself: the quality of life upgrade is immense.*****

Sadly, in my area, there aren't many options for renting.
I've looked at all the nearby options and they are in worse condition than my current place.
I thought about moving to the city nearby, but it would add a really long commute to work, and I'd have to spend over 240,000won per month to get to school and back.
I think my current apartment, while it has a lot of room and is really close to my schools, I think there is A LOT of hidden mold in places I both can't see and get to, and it seems like it might be the cause of all my health issues over the last year. As, every hospital visit has shown me in the normal/healthy range (other than my weight which should be okay now).
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: Kyndo on May 18, 2021, 09:19:45 am
Yeah, it's one of the reasons we just bit the bullet and bought a car.
That's also a pretty big quality of life improvement, btw!
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: Kayos on May 18, 2021, 09:23:09 am
Yeah, it's one of the reasons we just bit the bullet and bought a car.
That's also a pretty big quality of life improvement, btw!

I'd like to, but I don't know how to drive. :P I've had some driving lessons but, never enjoyed it haha.
I've started considering learning to drive. All my lessons were in a manual, and I hated the stick thing.
I think I'd do well in an auto with practice.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: Kyndo on May 18, 2021, 09:34:37 am
I'd like to, but I don't know how to drive. :P
Well, then that would put you right in with the majority of people driving here in Korea!  :laugh:

I've had some driving lessons but, never enjoyed it haha.
I've started considering learning to drive. All my lessons were in a manual, and I hated the stick thing.
I think I'd do well in an auto with practice.
Honestly, those driving hagwons might be a bit pricey, but they *are* pretty thorough, and can be very helpful if you can find an instructor who has reasonable English skills. A friend of mine went the hagwon route, and it did absolute wonders for her confidence. Also made the driving exam pretty straight forward, as I believe that they basically have you do the exact same exam over and over on the practice course.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: Aristocrat on May 18, 2021, 09:38:20 am
I'd like to, but I don't know how to drive.

You'll fit right in with most Korean drivers on the road. 

I didn't want to give them my Saffa license so I did the test, pretty damn easy. Having a car infinitely improves your quality of life in Korea, particularly if you live in the country or commute a fair distance to work.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: Kayos on May 18, 2021, 09:39:03 am
Well, then that would put you right in with the majority of people driving here in Korea!  :laugh:
Honestly, those driving hagwons might be a bit pricey, but they *are* pretty thorough, and can be very helpful if you can find an instructor who has reasonable English skills. A friend of mine went the hagwon route, and it did absolute wonders for her confidence. Also made the driving exam pretty straight forward, as I believe that they basically have you do the exact same exam over and over on the practice course.

Ahh nice. :o
Do you know a rough price of one. I've been thinking about it, but not enough to really start looking into it yet haha.
I'm also not sure where my nearest one would be. I could likely offer my co-t money to give me driving lessons, she is retiring in August and already worried about being bored in retirement haha; assuming there isn't one close to me.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: Renma on May 18, 2021, 10:23:23 am
Ahh nice. :o
Do you know a rough price of one. I've been thinking about it, but not enough to really start looking into it yet haha.
I'm also not sure where my nearest one would be. I could likely offer my co-t money to give me driving lessons, she is retiring in August and already worried about being bored in retirement haha; assuming there isn't one close to me.

Around 600k for regular license from what I remember. I'm taking motorcycle 'lessons' and its frankly awful and in no way will prepare anyone for the road. The car course did look more useful though.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 18, 2021, 10:40:32 am
I'm not taking hangook's alarmist, conspiracy theorist side here, but things typically are skewed against the foreigner.

I have 2 friends/acquaintances in the police, one I met at the track who asked me to help him prepare for his police physical exam and the other was a former temp-teacher. I see them now and then. The lady who used to cut my hair is a massive blabbermouth and is married to policeman, she'd constantly complain about her husband to me.

Anyways, here's what I've pieced together:

- If an officer is involved in any kind of incident, they'd have to cut down a whole forest to supply the amount of forms he/she will
  have to fill out. With this in mind, they do everything they can to get both parties to settle or conclude the matter as quickly as
  possible. Worst case, justice takes a back seat.

- There's a HUGE drinking culture within the police.

- The kinds of people who enter the force, particularly in smaller cities/towns, are oftentimes the laziest men looking for a job
  that pays them to park their car out of sight and spend most of their days sleeping.

- If you're blathering on in English after an incident with a Korean, the officer has the authority to make judgement on the spot
  and taking the Koreans side over going through the trouble of translating what you have to say is the path of least resistance.
  Ideally, he's just going to judge by facial expressions and call 50-50 or whatever gets things sorted with the least amount of
  work.

Somehow related, but I find it wise to stay away from places where I'll find lots of drinkers.
I'd say that is certainly a fair point. At the same time I haven't really heard about that outside of traffic accidents with anyone I know, at least not in any case that didn't start with "So it was 2 AM in Hongdae..." by people who aren't obnoxious drunks.

And there have been multiple cases where the cops took the foreigner's side. Most were slam dunkers with helpful locals to be fair, but one, without going into too much personal detail (embarrassing situation and people might know them), involved the person making a report and it took all of two seconds talking to the suspect and the Korean person saying "They're lying" and the cops going "How could you know if they're lying if you weren't there?" and them instantly giving the Korean, a person of status, the 3rd degree.

But yeah laziness and those types often go hand in hand. I also bet each community can vary wildly, especially in the rural areas.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: Kyndo on May 18, 2021, 12:06:23 pm
Around 600k for regular license from what I remember. I'm taking motorcycle 'lessons' and its frankly awful and in no way will prepare anyone for the road. The car course did look more useful though.
I've heard that 600,000 won number as well.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: Kayos on May 18, 2021, 12:29:41 pm
I'd say that is certainly a fair point. At the same time I haven't really heard about that outside of traffic accidents with anyone I know, at least not in any case that didn't start with "So it was 2 AM in Hongdae..." by people who aren't obnoxious drunks.

And there have been multiple cases where the cops took the foreigner's side. Most were slam dunkers with helpful locals to be fair, but one, without going into too much personal detail (embarrassing situation and people might know them), involved the person making a report and it took all of two seconds talking to the suspect and the Korean person saying "They're lying" and the cops going "How could you know if they're lying if you weren't there?" and them instantly giving the Korean, a person of status, the 3rd degree.

But yeah laziness and those types often go hand in hand. I also bet each community can vary wildly, especially in the rural areas.

Wasn't there a story on here a year or 2 ago, where one of the foreign teachers from here was driving home, and some dude drove into car trying to cut ahead, he got the whole thing filmed on the dash cam, and backed the footage up to the cloud before giving the SSD card to the police. The police just so happened to lose the card, and when he said that he can get them another copy of the footage, thanks to the power of saving files to the internet from our phones, they miraculously found the SSD card like 5 mins later. No one had been drinking, the Korean driving was just trying to cut his commute time down, or get somewhere faster, drove recklessly and caused damage, and then the police were just siding with him, even though there was video evidence to support the opposite.
I may have missed some of the details, and the poster might even recognize this, if they are still around. I don't remember the username of the person who posted that originally.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: Kayos on May 18, 2021, 12:31:01 pm
I've heard that 600,000 won number as well.

Is that per lesson, or enough lessons to get the license? In the first message, it seemed like it would cost that much to study enough to get the driver's license. :o
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: Kyndo on May 18, 2021, 12:36:00 pm
I believe that that would be for the whole course, which concludes with you taking the actual test.
I also seem to remember somebody telling me that they basically guarantee that you pass the test if you've finished the course, but that might just be apocryphal, so take it with a grain of salt.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: OnNut81 on May 18, 2021, 12:39:10 pm
I've heard that 600,000 won number as well.

I knew a guy that paid 800K to get the international license as he was only getting it to do road trip in the U.S.  He did his through a school that catered to English speakers (or at least had an instructor who did) in Gimpo. 
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 18, 2021, 01:39:49 pm
I'm not taking hangook's alarmist, conspiracy theorist side here, but things typically are skewed against the foreigner.

I have 2 friends/acquaintances in the police, one I met at the track who asked me to help him prepare for his police physical exam and the other was a former temp-teacher. I see them now and then. The lady who used to cut my hair is a massive blabbermouth and is married to policeman, she'd constantly complain about her husband to me.

Anyways, here's what I've pieced together:

- If an officer is involved in any kind of incident, they'd have to cut down a whole forest to supply the amount of forms he/she will
  have to fill out. With this in mind, they do everything they can to get both parties to settle or conclude the matter as quickly as
  possible. Worst case, justice takes a back seat.

- There's a HUGE drinking culture within the police.

- The kinds of people who enter the force, particularly in smaller cities/towns, are oftentimes the laziest men looking for a job
  that pays them to park their car out of sight and spend most of their days sleeping.

- If you're blathering on in English after an incident with a Korean, the officer has the authority to make judgement on the spot
  and taking the Koreans side over going through the trouble of translating what you have to say is the path of least resistance.
  Ideally, he's just going to judge by facial expressions and call 50-50 or whatever gets things sorted with the least amount of
  work.

Somehow related, but I find it wise to stay away from places where I'll find lots of drinkers.

These are the types of things I have heard over the years.  Laziness being the worst problem.  Though massive paperwork should be cut down on.  Anyways, not sure why you are claiming I'm a conspiracy theorist for saying this.  I've lived here a long time and though I haven't had the trouble myself, I do know of other folks experiences and have read enough stories to figure it out.  Even now, some folks in 2021 are describing their experiences online and problems they have had here "Every expat in Korea" group. 
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: Renma on May 18, 2021, 01:40:40 pm
Is that per lesson, or enough lessons to get the license? In the first message, it seemed like it would cost that much to study enough to get the driver's license. :o

It's for the whole course, theory (3 hours) and practical lessons (10 hours). You do have to pay for the eye test (6k), written test ( around 10k?) and the final test (idk this fee).
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: VanIslander on May 18, 2021, 01:41:58 pm
Can I have a sample?

I've never had a sample of an apartment. Is it a mini-model? That would be cool.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: D.L.Orean on May 18, 2021, 01:50:32 pm
Can I have a sample?

I've never had a sample of an apartment. Is it a mini-model? That would be cool.

If at first you don't succeed,
try, try, try again.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 18, 2021, 01:52:57 pm
These are the types of things I have heard over the years.  Laziness being the worst problem.  Though massive paperwork should be cut down on.  Anyways, not sure why you are claiming I'm a conspiracy theorist for saying this.  I've lived here a long time and though I haven't had the trouble myself, I do know of other folks experiences and have read enough stories to figure it out.  Even now, some folks in 2021 are describing their experiences online and problems they have had here "Every expat in Korea" group.
I wouldn't say conspiracy theorist, but some of the stories you share, well, anyone with a lick of streetsmarts would take one look at those and say "You know, there might be more to this than what you're telling me..."

Like, you should be skeptical of some of these claims and not just taking them at face value. You're only getting one side of the story and while you say I am biased, and that is probably the case (everyone has bias), I think you should probably consider that you're biased, and potentially more biased. That and just so many of these stories begin with "So me and my friends were out drinking..."

Like at no point in your citing of these tales, have you ever considered the possibility that the person isn't giving the whole story or might be at fault. Nor have you given two shits about what the other party's view is. That s why some might think you are a bit off on this.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: OnNut81 on May 18, 2021, 02:41:37 pm
Can I have a sample?

I've never had a sample of an apartment. Is it a mini-model? That would be cool.

Actually VanIslander, I don't mean to be a nitpicker, but I am compelled to correct these kinds of errors.  One would provide an "example" of an apartment in China, rather than a sample.  Not mocking you, but how one would provide a sample of an apartment?  HaHaHa, that would certainly be a sight!
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 18, 2021, 02:51:12 pm
Sadly, in my area, there aren't many options for renting.
I've looked at all the nearby options and they are in worse condition than my current place.
I thought about moving to the city nearby, but it would add a really long commute to work, and I'd have to spend over 240,000won per month to get to school and back.
I think my current apartment, while it has a lot of room and is really close to my schools, I think there is A LOT of hidden mold in places I both can't see and get to, and it seems like it might be the cause of all my health issues over the last year. As, every hospital visit has shown me in the normal/healthy range (other than my weight which should be okay now).

Been there in the countryside years ago with the moldly old uninsulated buildings.  You gotta rip of the wallpaper and repaint the walls with some kind of water sealant paint or material.  See if you can coat the windows with anything too.  Then, put new wallpaper up over it and a color of your liking.  If you know a Korean who can translate (not in the school), just do it without asking permission.  Do it first.  What are they gonna do?  Place will look better.  But first rip off wallpaper and scrub clean walls with hot soapy wayter, bleach, etc.  Go to town on it. 

Check with a paint store and an interior store.  Once this is done, check your furniture to see if it has any mold on it to be cleaned.  Keep all your furniture a couple of inches or more away from the wall.  To allow air flow.  Once all okay, get a good dehumifier.  Air con prob has one already during summer.  Winter on the hottest heating days you may need a humidifier too.  But often you will need a dehumidifier.  Run that bad boy all day when you are out, especially rainy days or winter days.  Should be a self shutting off one. 
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 18, 2021, 02:52:52 pm
Actually VanIslander, I don't mean to be a nitpicker, but I am compelled to correct these kinds of errors.  One would provide an "example" of an apartment in China, rather than a sample.  Not mocking you, but how one would provide a sample of an apartment?  HaHaHa, that would certainly be a sight!

A shame your basketweaving degrees never had Statistics.  Probablities, sample sizes, standard deviation, etc?  Gotta go back to the drawing board.....
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: CO2 on May 18, 2021, 02:56:41 pm
but how one would provide a sample of an apartment?  HaHaHa, that would certainly be a sight!
(https://filmschoolrejects.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/ZOOLANDER.jpg)
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: Kayos on May 18, 2021, 03:05:45 pm
Been there in the countryside years ago with the moldly old uninsulated buildings.  You gotta rip of the wallpaper and repaint the walls with some kind of water sealant paint or material.  See if you can coat the windows with anything too.  Then, put new wallpaper up over it and a color of your liking.  If you know a Korean who can translate (not in the school), just do it without asking permission.  Do it first.  What are they gonna do?  Place will look better.  But first rip off wallpaper and scrub clean walls with hot soapy wayter, bleach, etc.  Go to town on it. 

Check with a paint store and an interior store.  Once this is done, check your furniture to see if it has any mold on it to be cleaned.  Keep all your furniture a couple of inches or more away from the wall.  To allow air flow.  Once all okay, get a good dehumifier.  Air con prob has one already during summer.  Winter on the hottest heating days you may need a humidifier too.  But often you will need a dehumidifier.  Run that bad boy all day when you are out, especially rainy days or winter days.  Should be a self shutting off one.

We got permission from the landlord to rip the wallpaper off. However, other than the spots where the wallpaper was visibly bad, it's REALLY stuck on there, and I don't have the tools to take the wallpaper down all over the apartment. I've already cleaned the areas I managed to get it down a lot. I also have 2 mold killing air purifiers that I change the filters on every 3 months or so too. Actually, my AC is full of mold, and there is no way to open it up, I need to call the AS number. My washing machine is full of mold too, behind the drums, where I can't clean.
Maybe I should get a dehumidifier. I think that's the only important thing I don't have.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: OnNut81 on May 18, 2021, 03:07:47 pm
A shame your basketweaving degrees never had Statistics.  Probablities, sample sizes, standard deviation, etc?  Gotta go back to the drawing board.....

Meme of object flying over Hangook's head undetected inserted here.   
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: waygo0k on May 18, 2021, 03:09:47 pm
It's not all flowers and roses here in Chinese apartments. One thing I've learned is you absolutely MUST do your homework before settling on a place (city and home).

For example, a lot of buildings (5-10 stories) don't have elevators...might be great daily exercise but not for everyone, especially if you're on the 5th floor and above.

Also, a ton of homes don't have unlimited hot water. What they have are these mini electric water heating tanks that heat up 20-40L of water at the time...so you're SOL if you like long showers, especially in winter. My place is a tower built in 2015 (we do have elevators lol), but no central hot water system, so my landlord installed one of those shitty tanks...I replaced it with an instant hot water heater that gives me as much hot water as I want 24/7. Advantage is it's cheap to do (China), but with language issues it might be difficult for someone new to the country. My rent is currently 2k CNY and the apartment is modern enough...but an extra 1-2k would get me something luxurious (2-3 bed with completely new furnishings, central heating etc), which I'll be doing later this year.

In major tier 1 cities like shanghai, beijing, shenzen etc, you'd be paying a lot more money for older (and crappier) apartments, and even more for anything remotely modern (i.e. built in the past decade)...think of Seoul prices but on steroids (anything from 4-10k CNY for older places)...but again it really depends on which part of the city you prefer to be in and how long of a commute to work you're willing to put up with.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 18, 2021, 03:13:36 pm
A shame your basketweaving degrees never had Statistics.  Probablities, sample sizes, standard deviation, etc?  Gotta go back to the drawing board.....

Dude, you of all people to be going off on this...
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: CO2 on May 18, 2021, 03:19:53 pm
Meme of object flying over Hangook's head undetected inserted here.

You rang?

(https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.300330400.9135/flat,750x,075,f-pad,750x1000,f8f8f8.u5.jpg)
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: tylerthegloob on May 18, 2021, 03:22:30 pm
Dude, you of all people to be going off on this...
the gall!
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: Kayos on May 18, 2021, 03:22:56 pm
You rang?

(https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.300330400.9135/flat,750x,075,f-pad,750x1000,f8f8f8.u5.jpg)

How'd you get my most recent photo? :O
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: OnNut81 on May 18, 2021, 03:26:34 pm
You rang?

(https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.300330400.9135/flat,750x,075,f-pad,750x1000,f8f8f8.u5.jpg)

I was counting on you, man. 
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: CO2 on May 18, 2021, 03:27:33 pm
I was counting on you, man. 

I just wish I'd made the picture larger.

Ah well.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: pkjh on May 18, 2021, 03:31:27 pm
It's not all flowers and roses here in Chinese apartments. One thing I've learned is you absolutely MUST do your homework before settling on a place (city and home).

For example, a lot of buildings (5-10 stories) don't have elevators...might be great daily exercise but not for everyone, especially if you're on the 5th floor and above.

Also, a ton of homes don't have unlimited hot water. What they have are these mini electric water heating tanks that heat up 20-40L of water at the time...so you're SOL if you like long showers, especially in winter. My place is a tower built in 2015 (we do have elevators lol), but no central hot water system, so my landlord installed one of those shitty tanks...I replaced it with an instant hot water heater that gives me as much hot water as I want 24/7. Advantage is it's cheap to do (China), but with language issues it might be difficult for someone new to the country. My rent is currently 2k CNY and the apartment is modern enough...but an extra 1-2k would get me something luxurious (2-3 bed with completely new furnishings, central heating etc), which I'll be doing later this year.

In major tier 1 cities like shanghai, beijing, shenzen etc, you'd be paying a lot more money for older (and crappier) apartments, and even more for anything remotely modern (i.e. built in the past decade)...think of Seoul prices but on steroids (anything from 4-10k CNY for older places)...but again it really depends on which part of the city you prefer to be in and how long of a commute to work you're willing to put up with.
Sounds just like Korea in the 80s. My father worked in Korea for a few years in Korea, so I spent a few summer with him in Korea in the 80s. Anyways, lots of apartments had no hot water, so most people went to those bath houses. Or you'd heat up a huge bucket of hot water and pour it into the bath tub. Most apartment buildings built before the 80s had no elevators, which meant most of them. One time my father went to a colleague's apartment, and the family lived on like the 15th floor. So, my father, my sister, and mother, had to walk up 15 floors... lol

Also, they had scheduled daily brownouts in residential areas, during week days, for a few hours in the early afternoon. And most small businesses had no A/C units, which meant you only had a lousy electric fan, or those ceiling fans to cool down in those summer months. And people smoked on those public buses, and sellers would get on those buses to sell cigarettes, candy, and stuff.

It's exactly like what I saw in the Philippines, and other parts of SE Asia last time I was there.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on May 18, 2021, 07:20:57 pm
It's not all flowers and roses here in Chinese apartments. One thing I've learned is you absolutely MUST do your homework before settling on a place (city and home).

For example, a lot of buildings (5-10 stories) don't have elevators...might be great daily exercise but not for everyone, especially if you're on the 5th floor and above.

Also, a ton of homes don't have unlimited hot water. What they have are these mini electric water heating tanks that heat up 20-40L of water at the time...so you're SOL if you like long showers, especially in winter. My place is a tower built in 2015 (we do have elevators lol), but no central hot water system, so my landlord installed one of those shitty tanks...I replaced it with an instant hot water heater that gives me as much hot water as I want 24/7. Advantage is it's cheap to do (China), but with language issues it might be difficult for someone new to the country. My rent is currently 2k CNY and the apartment is modern enough...but an extra 1-2k would get me something luxurious (2-3 bed with completely new furnishings, central heating etc), which I'll be doing later this year.

In major tier 1 cities like shanghai, beijing, shenzen etc, you'd be paying a lot more money for older (and crappier) apartments, and even more for anything remotely modern (i.e. built in the past decade)...think of Seoul prices but on steroids (anything from 4-10k CNY for older places)...but again it really depends on which part of the city you prefer to be in and how long of a commute to work you're willing to put up with.

Waygook, is correct, generally Chinese buildings are terribly built. The apartment block I lived in was a hotel which then sold off the rooms which the owners converted into studio apartments and let them out. My first one, I managed to stay there for 2 days and told my college I must have another or I am out of there. It has leaky pipes in the walls, broken everything etc, etc.

They then move me to another apartment which was just great, the owner had done it up beautifully and fixed all the problems and he was the best landlord I have ever had. My co-workers who stayed in the same block were not so lucky and their apartments sucked.

I noticed that Chinese make these beautiful buildings on the outside but on the inside they are rotten. Contractors are forever cutting corners and using sub-par materials or sub-contracting to people who will give them a big kickback and make up for it by cutting corners and using cheap materials.

The college I taught at looked from the outside like some of the best colleges you could hope to see anywhere in the world but inside.... ugh. Leaking pipes were the order of the day in the walls and the rooms looked like they were a hundred years old. So, yes, be very careful about where you get an apartment, they can be terrible.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: VanIslander on May 18, 2021, 11:49:08 pm
Actually VanIslander, I don't mean to be a nitpicker, but I am compelled to correct these kinds of errors.  One would provide an "example" of an apartment in China, rather than a sample.  Not mocking you, but how one would provide a sample of an apartment?  HaHaHa, that would certainly be a sight!
That's the point of my post. I have never had a sample of an apartment. I am intrigued.

Of course, the op mixed up sample and example, a typical ESL student mistake but kinda surprising for an English teacher website. So I took him at his word that he meant sample, and wondered how I could get a free sample.

Several threads recently have been about China. Thank heavens for silly mistakes one can have fun with. It's getting a bit much.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: waygo0k on May 19, 2021, 12:27:43 pm
Sounds just like Korea in the 80s. My father worked in Korea for a few years in Korea, so I spent a few summer with him in Korea in the 80s. Anyways, lots of apartments had no hot water, so most people went to those bath houses. Or you'd heat up a huge bucket of hot water and pour it into the bath tub. Most apartment buildings built before the 80s had no elevators, which meant most of them. One time my father went to a colleague's apartment, and the family lived on like the 15th floor. So, my father, my sister, and mother, had to walk up 15 floors... lol

Also, they had scheduled daily brownouts in residential areas, during week days, for a few hours in the early afternoon. And most small businesses had no A/C units, which meant you only had a lousy electric fan, or those ceiling fans to cool down in those summer months. And people smoked on those public buses, and sellers would get on those buses to sell cigarettes, candy, and stuff.

It's exactly like what I saw in the Philippines, and other parts of SE Asia last time I was there.

In many ways, China is like Korea of the 80s and 90s...especially the rural places (even an hour outside a major city like Shanghai). In other ways, China is on par with Korea (organisation and tech wise). In 99% of my transactions in the country I haven't used a card let alone cash. And everything can be as cheap or as expensive as you want it to be.

Waygook, is correct, generally Chinese buildings are terribly built. The apartment block I lived in was a hotel which then sold off the rooms which the owners converted into studio apartments and let them out. My first one, I managed to stay there for 2 days and told my college I must have another or I am out of there. It has leaky pipes in the walls, broken everything etc, etc.

They then move me to another apartment which was just great, the owner had done it up beautifully and fixed all the problems and he was the best landlord I have ever had. My co-workers who stayed in the same block were not so lucky and their apartments sucked.

I noticed that Chinese make these beautiful buildings on the outside but on the inside they are rotten. Contractors are forever cutting corners and using sub-par materials or sub-contracting to people who will give them a big kickback and make up for it by cutting corners and using cheap materials.

The college I taught at looked from the outside like some of the best colleges you could hope to see anywhere in the world but inside.... ugh. Leaking pipes were the order of the day in the walls and the rooms looked like they were a hundred years old. So, yes, be very careful about where you get an apartment, they can be terrible.

Agreed on the beautiful exteriors!!! You see some swanky and majestic looking buildings, only to enter and they seem derelict and falling apart!! But things are slowly starting to change at least where I am.

Another thing is the sheer number of expensive cars you see here...Porsche SUVs are so ubiquitous they make BMWs look like standard level everyday cars. VW have a massive presence here (every other car is a VW), as does Tesla. The Chinese brands seem super high tech though (at least the ones built in the past 2-3 years)...driving here will be life threatening!! Also, electric motorcycles are everywhere...like flies in a landfill. They're pretty cheap too and you can even get imitations of western models (Harley, Ducati etc) in electric version.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: tony tony tony on May 19, 2021, 01:10:02 pm
That's the point if my post.

Did you mean "That's the point OF my post"?

If is used when introducing a conditional clause, for example "on the condition or supposition that; in the event that..."

Even a published author and journalist can make a mistake sometimes or another. We have to keep ourselves to account, as educators.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: VanIslander on May 19, 2021, 01:28:00 pm
Smartphone walking: i next to o on the keyboard display.

Not an intentional error in any way. The very definition of TYPO.

Not knowing the difference between a typo and grammatical error is on par with not knowing the difference between sample and example.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: CO2 on May 19, 2021, 04:18:35 pm
In 99% of my transactions in the country I haven't used a card let alone cash.
Huh? What did you do, odd jobs?
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: CO2 on May 19, 2021, 04:20:41 pm
i next to o on the keyboard display.

*I'm

You sound like my students,

"I next to Jimin."

No, "I'm next to Jimin."
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: tony tony tony on May 19, 2021, 04:22:03 pm
Smartphone walking: i next to o on the keyboard display.

Not an intentional error in any way. The very definition of TYPO.

Not knowing the difference between a typo and grammatical error is on par with not knowing the difference between sample and example.

As I said, everyone makes mistakes from time to time! But as you said...

As an English language teacher, the difference is significant.
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: Kyndo on May 20, 2021, 07:01:37 am
*I'm

You sound like my students,

"I next to Jimin."

No, "I'm next to Jimin."


Nonono "I" *is* next to "O"!

We all know how much you like conjugation (wink wink), but there is a time and a place for it!
Title: Re: Some samples of apartments in China.
Post by: gogators! on May 21, 2021, 02:09:34 am
You want to make excuses and be an apologist, that's your right to I guess.  No one can take that away from you. 
A blind squirrel and all that.