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International => East Asia => China => Topic started by: hangook77 on April 29, 2021, 01:47:13 pm

Title: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on April 29, 2021, 01:47:13 pm
I have done a lot of research on this and other topics of China.  I don't go anywhere without doing lots of research and being well prepared.  I took my time researching Korea commenting on Daves (which was a bigger deal than this site at that time) in the mid 2000's.  I heard by word of mouth, go to Korea and make lots of money.  So, I asked many questions, did research, got passport, bought luggage, got vaccination shots, etc.  I was working and not making much money then so was tough, but did bit by bit.  It took me a year or two before I decided to go for it.  Some users were questioning why I kept commenting and wasn't coming to Korea.  When I did finally come folks were shocked.  So, I am taking my time researching and dipping my toe in the water and making sure I am well prepared.

So, I have posted two videos I came across, but I read other things confriming this and saw more than two videos recently. 

The short of it is if you are on a legal Z visa, you need a tax reciept and a proof of employment legally, passport, and some other pieces, you can transfer up to your salary at the bank.  As long as you are legally employed and have paid taxes on your salary, you can transfer money from the bank.  There is some more paperwork involved and you will be at the bank for an hour the first time.  You keep a photo copy of the form you fill out so you can give it as an example the next time you go.  Make it faster the next time you go and the person doing it may know you.  (In some ways it reminds me of the mid 2000's decade going to Nonghyup for an in person bank transfer to Canada.  I didn't get into online banking till around 2010ish or so here using that USB smart key thingee.)

You may get some lazy person at the bank try to not do the transfer or say it can't be done.  But you persist and say it can and make him do it.  Make some phone calls or whatever.  Don't take no for an answer.  Laziness and folks trying to avoid work esepecially if it isn't something simple and easy happens a lot in Korea for some business services too.  It will certaintly happen in China sometimes.  Living abroad means you have to be persistent and pushy sometimes.  Anyways, you will be able to send money home.

I have heard of other ways folks tried to send money home, but don't do this too often.  Government may audit you and think you are doing illegal things or the Chinese person may have to pay extra tax.  As the videos say, it may be people there teaching illegally on a tourist visa or with a fake diploma or something.  For those of us legal, we can just go to the bank.  It is a bit more hassle than Korea, but much more money can be sent home.

I was told that years ago, China did have a lockdown on money being sent out.  Extreme capital controls, but so did Korea before the Asian crises of 1997, I had heard.  Lots of expats went to Itaewon and where ever to get US dollars and sneak money out, I guess.  No different than China at the time.  But recent years, you can legally send out up to your salary on a Z visa and proof of taxes paid. 

Watch the videos, more informative.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIt27SgmCyU


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rVKzD73X0k



Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on April 29, 2021, 01:53:04 pm
This guys advice is the most relevant for sending money home and do it via bank transfer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJMw_o5AK5U

Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: CO2 on April 29, 2021, 02:06:35 pm
This is some interesting, useful and informative stuff and it shows you've dug a bit and done some research.

Appreciated, genuinely.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on April 29, 2021, 02:13:58 pm
This is some interesting, useful and informative stuff and it shows you've dug a bit and done some research.

Appreciated, genuinely.

Glad to help.  Did it for my future self.  But always glad to let fellow ESLers know too.

(I should also add that like Korea, you can send out up to 50,000 USD a year there too in total.)
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on April 30, 2021, 08:12:04 am
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1988155584768351/

Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: tony tony tony on April 30, 2021, 10:03:39 am
where in China are you moving to, Hangook?
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: gogators! on May 02, 2021, 04:51:07 am
Something or someone is holding 77 back.

(https://media.tenor.com/images/edb4ab43610cb3e5eb57d1d34347f092/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: JNM on May 02, 2021, 10:08:28 pm
Something or someone is holding 77 back.

(https://media.tenor.com/images/edb4ab43610cb3e5eb57d1d34347f092/tenor.gif)

I suspect you are correct; even the Korean woman shown is accurate.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on May 03, 2021, 07:45:41 am
The CCP has just enacted some new financial laws on foreign firms and while it may not apply to all foreigners YET, I am not betting the farm. China as an ESL alternative is looking less unattractive by the day. If I were a Canadian or from the US, there is no way I would set foot in China right now.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 03, 2021, 12:09:13 pm
The CCP has just enacted some new financial laws on foreign firms and while it may not apply to all foreigners YET, I am not betting the farm. China as an ESL alternative is looking less unattractive by the day. If I were a Canadian or from the US, there is no way I would set foot in China right now.

You are allowed to send up to 50,000 USD per year.  Anything more than that you need additional paperwork.  I think moving large sums is where the difficulty is lying.  Anyways, in spite of the rumors and hearsay, these are actual foreigners who have sent the money home legally on a Z visa.  No need to get Chinese to send it for you, use Western Union, etc unless you are an illegal teacher or some other nonsense.  You can actually send your money home, albeit with a bit more paprework. 
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 03, 2021, 12:10:28 pm
where in China are you moving to, Hangook?

I am reseaching all areas and types of jobs available.  Over the next year or two will make the leap unless Korea smartens up in the meantime or I strike it rich. 
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 03, 2021, 01:32:25 pm
But since it offends and triggers you so much. 
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: tony tony tony on May 03, 2021, 08:22:12 pm
I am reseaching all areas and types of jobs available.  Over the next year or two will make the leap unless Korea smartens up in the meantime or I strike it rich. 

I agree wholeheartedly. the Korean government has too much big government influence over every aspect of the market, and the minimum wage here is pathetic. The creeping socialised agenda (BEGUN in Europe, IMPORTED to America and SPREAD throughout the globe) is taking root. Time to hit the ejector seat.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: Mr C on May 03, 2021, 10:42:31 pm
creeping socialised agenda

Huh?
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: Kyndo on May 04, 2021, 07:23:28 am
He means a rise in (the pathetic) minimum wage, and the end of 2.1 ESL salaries, I think.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: MayorHaggar on May 04, 2021, 03:43:10 pm
Well have fun living in an actual communist dictatorship hangook if you do go through with it.

I thought about teaching in Shenzhen years ago when my Korean province non-renewed all our EPIK jobs, but the math just didn't add up. The salary was higher but you had to pay rather high rent for an apartment, and it looked like the commie taxes would end up being pretty insane. Also the vacation was longer than EPIK but it was basically unpaid unless you taught a LOT of summer/winter camps. If I remember correctly you'd get like $50 a week if you decided to take the vacation. This was years ago and again it was for a public school ESL job in Shenzhen.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on May 05, 2021, 07:58:59 am
Well have fun living in an actual communist dictatorship hangook if you do go through with it.

I thought about teaching in Shenzhen years ago when my Korean province non-renewed all our EPIK jobs, but the math just didn't add up. The salary was higher but you had to pay rather high rent for an apartment, and it looked like the commie taxes would end up being pretty insane. Also the vacation was longer than EPIK but it was basically unpaid unless you taught a LOT of summer/winter camps. If I remember correctly you'd get like $50 a week if you decided to take the vacation. This was years ago and again it was for a public school ESL job in Shenzhen.

Yes, you have to be a little careful. The packages aren't always what they seem. Now, I didn't work for a public school so it could be different, I worked for a University based in Florida who had a contract to supply lecturers and teachers to High Schools and Colleges. My first two contracts were with a college and I was offered a salary of 14,000 RMB (about $2,100 US) with free medical, an apartment etc. It sounded wonderful but this is what happened to me.

Freshmen have to do one month military training at the beginning of the first semester and I was assigned to teach freshmen. I had no classes for a month but also no pay. Twiddled my thumbs for a month with no pay. Winter and summer vacations, not paid and the academic year was supposed to end at the end of June. My college decided to invite some visiting lecturers from the US for June, so classes were cancelled from the last week of May, no pay for the last week of May and the whole of June. So, in the end I only got about 7 months pay. Not such a good deal. No bonuses either.

By contrast here in Taiwan, I work in a public school, get 11 month's pay no matter what and 1 month's bonus and my salary is about $2,900 US but out of that I pay my apartment which is $340 US. So, for me I am way better off here in Taiwan and no person looking over my shoulder from the government, no censorship, I can do what I like, say what I like and go where I like.

So Hankook, not saying you mustn't go, your choice but I believe there are better options out there.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 06, 2021, 02:35:00 pm
Well have fun living in an actual communist dictatorship hangook if you do go through with it.

I thought about teaching in Shenzhen years ago when my Korean province non-renewed all our EPIK jobs, but the math just didn't add up. The salary was higher but you had to pay rather high rent for an apartment, and it looked like the commie taxes would end up being pretty insane. Also the vacation was longer than EPIK but it was basically unpaid unless you taught a LOT of summer/winter camps. If I remember correctly you'd get like $50 a week if you decided to take the vacation. This was years ago and again it was for a public school ESL job in Shenzhen.

Communist dictatorship doesn't affect foriegn English teachers that much.  Total deductions in Korea were around 8 per cent and now are around 13 per cent of the paycheck plus more money owed at end of year 300 thousand or so that was not owed before.  China taxes and fees are closer to 20 per cent.  You can get an apartment on your own with a partial subsidy or you can get a contract with free school housing.  You can even stay at a school baording and get everything free and free meals and no utilities.  (Though you would only take that option if you were looking to bank money and really save cash.) 

You have to find public schools that pay close to 23 to 25 thousand RMB a month to cover that.  Free apartment, there is no reason on this you couldn't send home 15 or 16 thousand RMB a month left over.  (16,000 Chinese Yuan equals 2,779,058.39 South Korean won.)  You can get contracts and neogitate winter fully paid and if you renew the contract you can ask for partial pay in summer for 2 months.  Ask for 8 to 10 thousand RMB for 2 months a year.  Drive a bargain.  But add up what you save over 10 months and the money saved and put away is a lot more.  (If you choose to live in the school dorm for a year or two you will save even more.  But that is not ideal so you can get an allowance and get a place. )

Shenzhen is more expensive and has more moderate pay though still good.  You can find plenty of other areas all over with free housing and good pay.  Many also give long vacations with no desk warming too. 

If you want full pay year round, choose a Kindergarten or Chinese hakwon and find something paying 25,000 to 30,000 rmb.  Make even more money.  I certaintly would negotiate a good deal and look for it.  There are bad contracts and there are good ones.  Some still pay low and some pay high.  (IE  Chains like EF pay low and are less of a good deal though they may change that due to competition.) 

Anyways, I have done and am doing lots of research plus spoken to friends who went to China.  It was an okay deal in recent years but it has really accelerated very recently.  Do your own research.  I would not do it for 15,000 rmb a month and pay my own rent (hello EF chain).  I would want 25,000 to 30,000 rmb with getting my own place or at least a small subsidy.  I would go 20,000 to 25,000 rmb with a free apartment or place to stay. 

Anyways, China has shot up a lot recently.  Go search the job boards and look at what the pay and what is inlcuded.  Convert to Korean Won or your home country's currency and see for yourself.  Compare to what you will make and save here.  After all, it is about what you can actually save regardless of actual salaries, right?
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 06, 2021, 02:45:40 pm
Yes, you have to be a little careful. The packages aren't always what they seem. Now, I didn't work for a public school so it could be different, I worked for a University based in Florida who had a contract to supply lecturers and teachers to High Schools and Colleges. My first two contracts were with a college and I was offered a salary of 14,000 RMB (about $2,100 US) with free medical, an apartment etc. It sounded wonderful but this is what happened to me.

Freshmen have to do one month military training at the beginning of the first semester and I was assigned to teach freshmen. I had no classes for a month but also no pay. Twiddled my thumbs for a month with no pay. Winter and summer vacations, not paid and the academic year was supposed to end at the end of June. My college decided to invite some visiting lecturers from the US for June, so classes were cancelled from the last week of May, no pay for the last week of May and the whole of June. So, in the end I only got about 7 months pay. Not such a good deal. No bonuses either.

By contrast here in Taiwan, I work in a public school, get 11 month's pay no matter what and 1 month's bonus and my salary is about $2,900 US but out of that I pay my apartment which is $340 US. So, for me I am way better off here in Taiwan and no person looking over my shoulder from the government, no censorship, I can do what I like, say what I like and go where I like.

So Hankook, not saying you mustn't go, your choice but I believe there are better options out there.

You have to have a Bed to teach public schools in Taiwan.  As for Universities in China, I never considered it as I thought their pay was too low.  But what you told me, makes me want to avoid any more.  They should still pay you for being there for 10 months or so.  Regular public schools wouldn't have those problems.  One friend who did it in a Tier 2 or 3 city his contract said up to 25 teaching hours.  So, if he taught less he got his 15,000 rmb a month and free apartment.  He insisted on his own place rather than boarding on the campus itself.  He taught elementary school.  But this was up until about 3 years ago when he went back to Canada.  So, this was the standard pay a few years ago.  He went home to Canada for 2 months every summer and didn't have desk warming.  He taught 10 hours a week.  Though they did get up closer to 25 before he left though he still didn't have to stick around after wards.  Pay is more now.  23,000 to 25,000 very common, but also many much higher. 

As for the other comments, I addressed in the last comment.  But I will add China still has a cheaper living cost while in Korea it has a higher living cost and is rising sharply.  (IE  I rememeber buying toilet paper for 16,000 to 18,000 won - the non sandpaper feeling kind.  Now there are sold for around 30,000 but with 'sales' for 18,000 to 22,000 won.  The sale prices are higher than the old regular price.  These 'sales' have been on since about January, I have noticed.  Eventually, the 'sales' price will be mid to upper 20's and then the new regular price will kick in.  I think it will be by 2022 that it is over 30,000 won.  COmpanies playing the long game to get people conditioned to a sharp price hike.  This is only one example.  Other massive inflation is coming to Korea.  Remember that.)
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 06, 2021, 03:05:02 pm
Pay is going up a lot recently in China.  But, the uncertainty of covid and vaccines, etc.  Stay put for now.  But make the plans to hop in 2022 and beyond if you go. 

I am replying to private messages I have gotten with folks asking me to share my research with them.  I think they won't ask due to them seeing me get jumped on for passing on the info. 

I am set up with apartment and car and waiting for covid to clear up.  I will begin making plans to wind down and move on from there.  If you are set up here, give Korea till 2022.  If you are a new teacher looking for jobs, do China instead.  The money is far better and the work conditions are less demanding and less picky.  Come to Korea if you wish, but don't be surprised by the low savings after one year and that it isn't what recruiters led you to believe it is.  To each their own.   
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: Aristocrat on May 06, 2021, 03:12:28 pm
Communist dictatorship doesn't affect foriegn English teachers that much. 

I'm not trying to be an alarmist, but arbitrary arrests, detentions and deportations are very much a thing in China, depending on your countries monthly relationship with the CCP.

In a place like Saudi Arabia you could disagree with many things happening around you, but it's a guarantee that as long as you don't break the law, you'll be fine. In China, you've got no such guarantee, particularly these days with China rapidly becoming more hostile and nationalistic by the day.

Higher salaries, perhaps, but the cost of living HAS gone up, so how much are you able to bank? Aside from that, catastrophic air pollution, restrictions, censorship and working in a country where genocide is taking place would bother most people.

The approach I'm taking, and the one I'd recommend to anyone looking for more money in the ESL field, is to improve your qualifications to get higher paying jobs. Get a teaching license, CELTA, your MA in a teachable field or something and land a lucrative university gig in a 'not China' country. If you've been sitting on nothing but an undergrad BA for years then you've got no right to bitch about pay.

Do what you want, but try not to grandstand about going to China, it's not impressing anyone.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: tylerthegloob on May 06, 2021, 03:19:10 pm
gotta factor a good VPN into your cost of living, dude. and factor in dealing with scummy tencent
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on May 06, 2021, 04:49:48 pm
Communist dictatorship doesn't affect foreign English teachers that much.

Sadly you are wrong there. I left at the beginning of 2019 and things had got exponentially worse for foreigners in the 2 and a bit years I was there. In the beginning it was all cool, the government didn't bother you but towards the end it was getting nasty and I am not an American but I was made (by the government, NOT the people) to feel unwelcome.

Things like not being able to buy a bus ticket to the next city simply because the official didn't like foreigners. Having the police turn up at 11 pm at your apartment wanting to know where you had been and where you had dinner. After I told them where, one had the gall to say 'prove it', luckily for me I had the payment on Alipay to show him. Once a month called into the directors office to fill in a form stating my religious beliefs, immigration turning up regularly to check your visa, having to get permission from the police to cut a spare key for my apartment, not being able to leave the city I lived in because the CCP was having a conference in Beijing, 2 hours by plane away. Having full on body searches when getting on a subway train. Having to show your passport when going to hike in a national park, etc,etc.

Nationalism was on the rise in 2019 and I can just imagine how bad it must be right now especially if you are from the US, Australia or Canada.

It just became so unpleasant and that besides the moral issues around genocide, organ harvesting etc.

I want to state VERY CLEARLY that I was treated like a celebrity by the Chinese people and I still have many dear friends there which rate among the kindest people I have ever met but the CCP................ ....

I was very sad to leave my friends and students there, as I said, awesome people but in hindsight I am glad because in all honesty I could not stay there now knowing what is going on with the genocide etc.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: JNM on May 06, 2021, 07:00:31 pm
I visited China in 2016 and 2018.

As a Canadian I would not today.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: MayorHaggar on May 06, 2021, 07:22:06 pm
Communist dictatorship doesn't affect foriegn English teachers that much.

You complain about everything in Korea and act like Joe Biden is personally out to get you.

Also maybe wait until you've spent a few months actually living and working in China before acting like an expert about it. I expect a lot of "I didn't know what I was expecting" posts when you move there, assuming you can get your commie internet to work.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: Aristocrat on May 06, 2021, 08:54:42 pm
You complain about everything in Korea and act like Joe Biden is personally out to get you.

Also maybe wait until you've spent a few months actually living and working in China before acting like an expert about it. I expect a lot of "I didn't know what I was expecting" posts when you move there, assuming you can get your commie internet to work.

Yeah, he keeps complaining about having to follow silly rules (I do too) and having to "stick up for yourself"... if he thinks he's going to experience anything better in China, he's got another thing coming.
Confusedsaffa's experience confirmed everything I learned about China. Cops are going to regularly bang on your door at 11pm, barge in, demand to see all your papers and interrogate you like you're a sex predator. That slightly higher salary (debatable) comes at the cost of your dignity, Hangkook.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 07, 2021, 08:07:11 am
You complain about everything in Korea and act like Joe Biden is personally out to get you.

Also maybe wait until you've spent a few months actually living and working in China before acting like an expert about it. I expect a lot of "I didn't know what I was expecting" posts when you move there, assuming you can get your commie internet to work.

Joe Biden is out to get me?  Joe Biden can't get his way out of a paper bag.  Back to senile sleep grandpa. 
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: L I on May 07, 2021, 08:37:17 am
How about bigging up ideas for working in the West as well?

There are in fact disadvantages from being away for so long.

And it is possible to make money there.

The job market for English teaching is on an overall downward trajectory and has been for decades. The decline is slight and gradual, but itís getting worse and worse across the globe. Overall, that is absolutely true. The future for the industry is gonna get worse bit by bit as time goes on. Less opportunities. Might be wise to get out before itís too late and one is older without skills to do anything else as a decent career. Worth thinking about at least. There are 200 countries on earth. How many have great ESL / EFL opportunities? A hell of a lot less than before.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: MayorHaggar on May 07, 2021, 08:58:36 am
Yeah, he keeps complaining about having to follow silly rules (I do too) and having to "stick up for yourself"... if he thinks he's going to experience anything better in China, he's got another thing coming.
Confusedsaffa's experience confirmed everything I learned about China. Cops are going to regularly bang on your door at 11pm, barge in, demand to see all your papers and interrogate you like you're a sex predator. That slightly higher salary (debatable) comes at the cost of your dignity, Hangkook.

Years ago I saw a comment on Dave's that was something like "if you thought you were getting screwed over in Korea, you haven't seen anything until Big Red has its way with you."
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 07, 2021, 09:30:55 am
How about bigging up ideas for working in the West as well?

There are in fact disadvantages from being away for so long.

And it is possible to make money there.

The job market for English teaching is on an overall downward trajectory and has been for decades. The decline is slight and gradual, but itís getting worse and worse across the globe. Overall, that is absolutely true. The future for the industry is gonna get worse bit by bit as time goes on. Less opportunities. Might be wise to get out before itís too late and one is older without skills to do anything else as a decent career. Worth thinking about at least. There are 200 countries on earth. How many have great ESL / EFL opportunities? A hell of a lot less than before.

There are actually a lot more ESL jobs than before that pay well.  Vietnam and China are much more prominent than 10 to 20 years ago.  There were jobs there that were low paying for backpackers.  But if they want uni educated grads, they got to pay.  There have always been low paying jobs too.  Some European countries, South America, etc.  The difference there is English is more of a niche market and not in demand by the whole population.  Japan kind of leans this way too even though they have academies in Tokyo.  But much of the country, folks want to live through translators.  A lot of folks there don't care about learning English though.  Korea, Vietnam, China, and others do want English.  Mothers want it for their kids too.  Including meeting a native speaker.  But there are too many teachers in Korea.  Korean employers have had it too good since the Great Recession began, though there is more slack in the market over the last few years.  Either way, there are new options that didn't exist as well as now even 5 years ago.  Chinese and Vietnamese wages 5 plus years ago were not as exciting as now.  Vietnam you can find similar wages to Korea with experience, a degree, and an in class TESOL certificate.  It has a cheaper living cost though.  Chinese wages were only 15,000 rmb range until a couple of years ago.  Now, 25,000 can be found.  There are also a lot more room and apartments included in contracts than before. 

More and more folks here are leaving for China due to the pay.  Just make sure you get the Z Visa and don't go on a temporary tourist Visa.  Walk away from any recruiter that pushes that on you.  You will be screwed for sure then.  As for jobs back home, you all can look for them yourselves online.  The economy in the US was finally recovering before Coronavirus.  If you could have found a job outside the overpriced coastal cities, you could have lived well depending on the field.  I would have retrained had I gone home, maybe retrained and just worked with my hands blue collar for the quick cash.  I have no snobbery about jobs or status only pay and whether I can tolerate it well enough.  ESL jobs don't pay well in the west or they didn't use to.  That may have changed now.  At least this was the case for the majority of the jobs. 

I never chose a country that ESL didn't pay well.  I wasn't a rich kid who could afford to back pack and work for pennies.  That wouldn't pay off my loans.  It's why I chose Korea over Japan at the time, though I did have some Japanese job offers too.  I wouldn't say, Korea has fallen to Japan's level yet.  Though incrementally you see it.  More expensive and one way flights instead of two way flights.  Housing still included but allowances still the same even with rising rents and other costs.  Prices still okay out in the provinces though they are slowly rising too in some places.  (On the other hand, some wages being offered in Japan are higher than I have seen for starting wages.  Was 250k Yen and often less.  Nowadays, I had seen 270 Yen and slightly more in some cases.)

Either way, no reason to be scared of an employer or coteacher here.  If you're unfairly canned or non renewed, you can get a job elsewhere and for more money (no matter how much that triggers).  Korea has more rules in the public schools and are even starting to be enforced down in the provinces.  For years, many new ridiculous rules were put into the newer contracts but ignored in some places.  Though if you worked in Seoul public schools, you had to follow everything to the letter and got lower pay in return (even lost the renewal allowance).  Point is more rules and no extra pay in return.  Chinese public schools no desk warming and no paying for lunches etc.  The way it use to be here.  No desk warming and I never had to pay for school lunches.  Lots of lattitude use to be given here.  Chinese public schools like that now.  And more money. 
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: Lazio on May 07, 2021, 10:09:03 am
No need to repeatedly troll me for passing on some of my research to help other teachers.  If some of you are secretly recruiters, then start recruiting for China too.  Problem solved.

Interesting ideas you have about trolling. When someone says they wouldn't go to China or they are satisifed with their circumstances in Korea, you call them losers, secret recruiters, hagwon owners and having stockholm syndrome.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: CO2 on May 07, 2021, 10:12:34 am
Trolling is pointed out all too frequently. An off the cuff pun is not trolling. A quippy remark is not trolling. Trolling is intentionally and repeatedly being antagonising to drag someone down into a fight and to keep them there.


Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: OnNut81 on May 07, 2021, 11:56:15 am
If people feel you are repeatedly putting false or misleading information up, and repeatedly  disagree with you (Hangook), you somehow consider it trolling.  If you keep making the same statements and people keep pointing out the flaws in those statements there is no trolling going on.  And when you get upset and attack people, that is called being triggered.  It's very clear you're triggered by people disagreeing with you and calling out your posts.  You somehow feel that if you make the same post again and again people should just give up and let you get away with posting exaggerated information. 

On another point of accuracy, it is misleading to take your renewal bonus and severance pay and spread it out over the course of the year to bump up your monthly salary.  Your monthly salary is what gets deposited into your account on pay day each month.  Everything together is your yearly compensation.  You're always comparing China to Korea with an inaccurate monthly salary.  That's not helpful.   
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 07, 2021, 01:00:14 pm
If people feel you are repeatedly putting false or misleading information up, and repeatedly  disagree with you (Hangook), you somehow consider it trolling.  If you keep making the same statements and people keep pointing out the flaws in those statements there is no trolling going on.  And when you get upset and attack people, that is called being triggered.  It's very clear you're triggered by people disagreeing with you and calling out your posts.  You somehow feel that if you make the same post again and again people should just give up and let you get away with posting exaggerated information. 

On another point of accuracy, it is misleading to take your renewal bonus and severance pay and spread it out over the course of the year to bump up your monthly salary.  Your monthly salary is what gets deposited into your account on pay day each month.  Everything together is your yearly compensation.  You're always comparing China to Korea with an inaccurate monthly salary.  That's not helpful.  

Actually, I posted the links that have the salaries right on them.  It says what it says.  Not making anything up.  (All I do is run it through google and it tells me what it equals in Korean won.  Maybe Google is lying about the exchange rate?)  China's monthly pay for the jobs I post as an example is what it pays.  I don't add any annual bonus or anything else.  I posted a couple of examples that also had free housing and free flight or flight reimbursement.  I didn't mention cheaper living cost outside a tier one city which I could have,  I have been pretty honest.  Not sure what you are talking about and still not sure why you and 5 others are so defensive about it and argue over it so much.  Maybe you should put this energy into raising your wages if you love Korea this much and want to stay forever. 

Scroll the page link.  RMB 20,000 to 25,000 to 30,000  https://www.eslcafe.com/postajob-detail/high-paid-teaching-positions-of-international-4?koreasearch=&koreapageno=&koreapagesize=&chinasearch=&chinapageno=1&chinapagesize=60&internationalsearch=&internationalpageno=&internationalpagesi ze=

It's all there.  I am not exaggerating anything. 
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 07, 2021, 01:11:30 pm
Another exaggeration perhaps?

https://www.eslcafe.com/postajob-detail/salary-25000-rmb-all-benefits-25-lessons-no-o-2?koreasearch=&koreapageno=&koreapagesize=&chinasearch=&chinapageno=1&chinapagesize=60&internationalsearch=&internationalpageno=&internationalpagesi ze=

Private kindy 25000 to 35000 RMB with no housing included, but high salary.

https://www.eslcafe.com/postajob-detail/beijing-high-paying-opportunity-to-teach-youn-3?koreasearch=&koreapageno=&koreapagesize=&chinasearch=&chinapageno=1&chinapagesize=60&internationalsearch=&internationalpageno=&internationalpagesi ze=

Still trying to figure out what I am exaggerating and being dishonest about?

35,000 rmb is 6 million won.  First link lists deductions just above 10 per cent.  (Mine in Korea are 13 per cent nowadays.)  Apartment in Beijing depending on where you want to live and how much luxury you want or whether you want a room mate or not will be 3 to 8 thousand rmb.  Again it depends how high end you want to be.  But 4 or 5 thousand or less is easy enough to pay for rent.  If you pay rent, ask for 25,000 rmb and up.  If school pays rent and gives apt then ask for 20,000 rmb and up. 
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: OnNut81 on May 07, 2021, 01:16:33 pm
Actually, I posted the links that have the salaries right on them.  It says what it says.  Not making anything up.  (All I do is run it through google and it tells me what it equals in Korean won.  Maybe Google is lying about the exchange rate?)  China's monthly pay for the jobs I post as an example is what it pays.  I don't add any annual bonus or anything else.  I posted a couple of examples that also had free housing and free flight or flight reimbursement.  I didn't mention cheaper living cost outside a tier one city which I could have,  I have been pretty honest.  Not sure what you are talking about and still not sure why you and 5 others are so defensive about it and argue over it so much.  Maybe you should put this energy into raising your wages if you love Korea this much and want to stay forever. 

Scroll the page link.  RMB 20,000 to 25,000 to 30,000  https://www.eslcafe.com/postajob-detail/high-paid-teaching-positions-of-international-4?koreasearch=&koreapageno=&koreapagesize=&chinasearch=&chinapageno=1&chinapagesize=60&internationalsearch=&internationalpageno=&internationalpagesi ze=

It's all there.  I am not exaggerating anything. 

It's how you tabulate your monthly Korean salary which is inaccurate.  You keep making the point that you're ok here (so are others, including myself) but you falsely inflate your monthly salary.  You have on several occasions said you factor in your renewal bonus and severance into your monthly salary.  But, your monthly salary is what is paid on pay day.  You can't factor in severance or bonuses.  The point being, you are pushing others towards China, yet defending yourself staying here with an inflated monthly salary to justify you not taking your own advice.  It's why I don't think you really want to make the move to the land of milk and dumplings.  Anyone here with a car or their own housing knows you can get out of those obligations in a few months.  You don't need two years to wind things down.  It gets a little tiring hearing some say "China, China, China!" followed by "Oh, well I can't go right now, but it's the best move for YOU." 

I don't expect you to even make an attempt at understanding an opposing view, so, carry on. 
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 07, 2021, 01:17:55 pm
Avoid lower paying chains like EF unless they raise their pay.  12 to 15 thousand RMB with no housing.  No thanks.  Lots of better pay to take advantage of.  Also stay away from universities, lower pay as well and cancelled classes no pay apparently.  Public schools make them give you some lower pay in exchange for renewing the contract for the summer.  But overall the year average pay is still higher than Korea.  If you want full 12 month pay, work in a kindergarten or hakwon there and get the full 12 months pay.  But publics give full pay for 10 months some for 9.  They are desperate.  Drive a hard bargain for yourself.  I will ask for 25,000 for 10 months and partial pay for 2 months summer in exchange for renewing and free housing when I do it.  The demand is high and the supply is low.  Plenty of publics in China.  If one won't play ball, I move onto the next.  Their loss.  Either way, good money to be made as of late.  (I wouldn't have done 4 or 5 years ago for 15,000 rmb.) 
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: L I on May 07, 2021, 01:22:57 pm
I read one canít be hired in China unless already in China due to border restrictions. I guess thatís whatís causing the supply shortage. Some leaving with no more coming in. How many want to stay for more than one year? Most donít I assume. So, harder to get Western teachers.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 07, 2021, 01:30:09 pm
It's how you tabulate your monthly Korean salary which is inaccurate.  You keep making the point that you're ok here (so are others, including myself) but you falsely inflate your monthly salary.  You have on several occasions said you factor in your renewal bonus and severance into your monthly salary.  But, your monthly salary is what is paid on pay day.  You can't factor in severance or bonuses.  The point being, you are pushing others towards China, yet defending yourself staying here with an inflated monthly salary to justify you not taking your own advice.  It's why I don't think you really want to make the move to the land of milk and dumplings.  Anyone here with a car or their own housing knows you can get out of those obligations in a few months.  You don't need two years to wind things down.  It gets a little tiring hearing some say "China, China, China!" followed by "Oh, well I can't go right now, but it's the best move for YOU." 

I don't expect you to even make an attempt at understanding an opposing view, so, carry on. 

Not sure what you're getting on about. 

Level 1 plus 2.7 million won.  Rural allowance 100 k.  Multiple school allowance 3 plus schools 150K

2.7 plus 100k plus 150k equals 2.95 million straight pay.  Also get 400K housing which I didn't count.  I do some overtime every year which I do add on.  It equals an average of 100K a month.  So, 3.05 million pay which goes into my account each month.  Well some months higher and some months lower, but that was the only thing I averaged out.  I do not add renewal allowance of 2 million won.  Nor did I add severance which I do not cash out every year.  2 million renewal allowance (which the SMOE hasn't paid in years) does equal 166,666 won per month if you wanted to average it out with your pay (which I don't)

Either way, I do make 3 million excluding allowances and housing allowance.  (Some months well over 3 and some just slightly under 3).  Nothing exaggerated or lied about.  SMOE and other Metro cities do pay even lower and do rip people off more on pay.  But that's nothing to do with me.  Rural EPIK pays more and they set this pay up because just before the Great Recession, they were desperate for teachers so they upped the pay to get people.  They aren't so desperate anymore.  But if they cut the pay I'd be gone.  Do, your own EPIK online research if you wish and search it out for yourself.  I get paid what I get paid. 

I am noticing the pinch recently with the inflation coming along.  I couldn't imagine doing anything on 2.1, especially if you want a roomy apartment, a good used car, or anything else for quality of life.  Korea really does need to up it's salaries and if it doesn't, either accept it or go to China or elsewhere.  If Korea doesn't up the salaries including my own over the next couple of years, I will have to move on too.  If I were at 2.1, I'd already be gone.  I backed up everything I said. 
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 07, 2021, 01:33:17 pm
I read one canít be hired in China unless already in China due to border restrictions. I guess thatís whatís causing the supply shortage. Some leaving with no more coming in. How many want to stay for more than one year? Most donít I assume. So, harder to get Western teachers.

One of my friends applied in February and he expects to be there in summer.  It does take longer to get documents and application process.  My friend hired someone in North America a service to do all the legwork with Chinese embassy there.  Also, I spoke to a couple of recruiters and they said it is opening up.  Some ads on Dave's do say outsiders welcome now.  There are some ads which say only in China, but if you get your application in now, prob by fall or whenever you can get over there.  I will renew this year until the Corona issue clears up and I am at a higher base pay for now.  My friend was doing your standard 2.1 in Seoul and he was sick of it. 
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 07, 2021, 01:43:45 pm
Another example I just found of a job bringing in folks from outside of China with free apartment and high pay. 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/ucels/permalink/3046020438942711/
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: D.L.Orean on May 07, 2021, 02:26:07 pm
One of my friends applied in February and he expects to be there in summer.  It does take longer to get documents and application process.  My friend hired someone in North America a service to do all the legwork with Chinese embassy there.  Also, I spoke to a couple of recruiters and they said it is opening up.  Some ads on Dave's do say outsiders welcome now.  There are some ads which say only in China, but if you get your application in now, prob by fall or whenever you can get over there.  I will renew this year until the Corona issue clears up and I am at a higher base pay for now.  My friend was doing your standard 2.1 in Seoul and he was sick of it.

Why was he stuck at 2.1 if he'd been here for a while?
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 07, 2021, 02:39:02 pm
Why was he stuck at 2.1 if he'd been here for a while?

He may have been a bit more.  But still towards the bottom.  Seoul area hakwons many still pay it.  Doesn't matter how much experience you have or how good you are at teaching.  There are some (I saw Gangnam Kindies) going as high as 2.8 to 3.0 million a while back.  But many are still stuck in the low 2.0's to mid 2.0's.  He changed jobs, took breaks after contracts then applied for next opening, etc.  Like a lot of English teachers use to do.  Hakwons little vacation.  Folks finished the contract then went to a beach somewhere cheap and then came back to work.  (Not a good long term plan of course, but to each their own.) 

Also, most foreigners don't want to go out to the country.  When I first came countryside and Seoul was similar in pay.  I was about to move up there to get out of the sticks then the Recession flooded the market so I stayed put.  Salaries got put up and was good for a long time, though I have been stuck for quite a few years no raise.  Still okay but soon will not be due to coming inflation I see around the corner.  You can make more money in public schools and some universities long term but you have to start low and build your way up to the higher pay.  Plus the lack of convenience of multiple schools and taking buses all over unless you drive in a nice air conditioned car or heated car.  More money, more expenses for some like me, I guess.  It is more convenient to live in a city if you live in a one room next to your school and walk there in 10 minutes even with lower pay.

My friend only did hakwons, kindies, maybe some adult teaching.  Even out in the provinces those few types of jobs still pay low too.  Anyways, he was on that F points visa and now go is making it too hard reducing points for Korean language, age (40 and up), etc.  I think Korea wants to drive out those foreigners.  You aren't a real foreigner unless you are an executive, rich, a banker, an IT person, lawyer, engineer, etc.  Boot the scummy English teachers apparently by now changing the F points Visa and making it too hard.  That's another thing that's making him leave, I believe. 
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: D.L.Orean on May 07, 2021, 02:44:34 pm
He may have been a bit more.  But still towards the bottom.  Seoul area hakwons many still pay it.  Doesn't matter how much experience you have or how good you are at teaching.  There are some (I saw Gangnam Kindies) going as high as 2.8 to 3.0 million a while back.  But many are still stuck in the low 2.0's to mid 2.0's.  He changed jobs, took breaks after contracts then applied for next opening, etc.  Like a lot of English teachers use to do.  Hakwons little vacation.  Folks finished the contract then went to a beach somewhere cheap and then came back to work.  (Not a good long term plan of course, but to each their own.) 

Also, most foreigners don't want to go out to the country.  When I first came countryside and Seoul was similar in pay.  I was about to move up there to get out of the sticks then the Recession flooded the market so I stayed put.  Salaries got put up and was good for a long time, though I have been stuck for quite a few years no raise.  Still okay but soon will not be due to coming inflation I see around the corner.  You can make more money in public schools and some universities long term but you have to start low and build your way up to the higher pay.  Plus the lack of convenience of multiple schools and taking buses all over unless you drive in a nice air conditioned car or heated car.  More money, more expenses for some like me, I guess.  It is more convenient to live in a city if you live in a one room next to your school and walk there in 10 minutes even with lower pay.

My friend only did hakwons, kindies, maybe some adult teaching.  Even out in the provinces those few types of jobs still pay low too.  Anyways, he was on that F points visa and now go is making it too hard reducing points for Korean language, age (40 and up), etc.  I think Korea wants to drive out those foreigners.  You aren't a real foreigner unless you are an executive, rich, a banker, an IT person, lawyer, engineer, etc.  Boot the scummy English teachers apparently by now changing the F points Visa and making it too hard.  That's another thing that's making him leave, I believe.

If you're a F-visa holder in your 40s making 2.1 at a hagwon, that's a you problem not a Korea problem.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: L I on May 07, 2021, 03:17:17 pm
The problem is age 40 means the F points visa is harder to get in the first place now. Also harder to renew. Also renewal is only one year (or even less if income is too low). For me it was previously five years. Now gonna be one. Sucks to have to keep paying 120,000 every year rather than once every five years... plus accumulating necessary paperwork (of which there is a lot) then traveling to the immigration office for yearly renewal.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: Kurt Sorensen on May 08, 2021, 12:27:02 pm
Back in the mid 1980s, my step-brother and his wife (New Zealand Chinese) stopped off in China for a week on their way to the England. They had a suitcase half full of Bibles to give to long lost family members and who knows who else. They knew that this was illegal but did it anyway. Customs got them and hauled them over the coals for 24 hours, lucky not to get kicked out on the next flight. They got fined and the Bibles were confiscated of course. They said that the constant interrogation was so intense that they were both in tears. Ha! No sympathy. Bet they never did that again.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: Aristocrat on May 08, 2021, 01:07:46 pm
Not sure if it's a pattern or just coincidence.

A friend used to teach in Korea and left to start a business in his home country. It didn't go well and he's been unemployed for quite a while. He spends way too much time on Facebook, complaining about politics, racism, the woke agenda and his personal thoughts on the injustice he's facing with his struggles to find a job as a white man. It's sad since I've known him to be a cool guy, but it's clear to see that he's changed and it's likely that he's going through a bit of depression and his political, anti-religious and personal views have become more hostile. He's recently thrown a complete 180 and has expressed his admiration for the CCP and plans to work in China.

He's not the first person I know to adopt this viewpoint and I've picked up similar characteristics of these kinds of people who're becoming CCP supporters:

- white male
- quite conservative
- obsessed with politics
- mid 30s to 50s
- militant Atheist
- single
- no remarkable qualifications

Just a thought
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: Kurt Sorensen on May 08, 2021, 01:46:23 pm
Yeah Aristocrat, that's a strange one. Perhaps he sees the restrictive life style imposed be the CCP, as a kind of freedom. Kind of mind boggling given what most people know the CCP are doing. and the stupid games they play. Anyway, your observations are food for thought. Personally I don't understand any praise for the CCP, and I have never had any desire to visit.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: Aristocrat on May 08, 2021, 03:57:28 pm
Yeah Aristocrat, that's a strange one. Perhaps he sees the restrictive life style imposed be the CCP, as a kind of freedom. Kind of mind boggling given what most people know the CCP are doing. and the stupid games they play. Anyway, your observations are food for thought. Personally I don't understand any praise for the CCP, and I have never had any desire to visit.

I see it as a kind of teenage temper tantrum or rebellion at the Western society they believe has rejected them for being who they are.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: waygo0k on May 08, 2021, 05:50:12 pm
One of my friends applied in February and he expects to be there in summer.  It does take longer to get documents and application process.  My friend hired someone in North America a service to do all the legwork with Chinese embassy there.  Also, I spoke to a couple of recruiters and they said it is opening up.  Some ads on Dave's do say outsiders welcome now.  There are some ads which say only in China, but if you get your application in now, prob by fall or whenever you can get over there.  I will renew this year until the Corona issue clears up and I am at a higher base pay for now.  My friend was doing your standard 2.1 in Seoul and he was sick of it. 

90% of applicants currently can't get into China due to several hurdles deliberately put in place by the central government.

Some people can't even get an embassy appointment as the embassy where they are might be closed or not accepting applications. Right now all new applicants need something called a PU letter before they can even apply for a visa, which is issued out on a city by city (and even provincial) basis...most cities and provinces aren't even issuing PU letters right now, but some are. Even if one manages to jump through the hoops and secure a visa, they need to apply for permission to board from the local   Chinese embassy at the port of departure (strict rules on PCR tests etc), and even then those who follow the rules aren't always accepted at this final hurdle.

But with all that said, things are improving. Previously it would have been 99% of people not being able to enter China for work. China should open up more later this year if the current vaccination  trend continues (currently 7mil per day, doubling every 2-3 weeks).
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: Mr C on May 09, 2021, 06:35:43 pm
.... Personally I don't understand any praise for the CCP, and I have never had any desire to visit.

Well, I'm 100% with you regarding the CCP, without a doubt one of the most repressive and brutal governments on the planet.  However, "never had any desire to visit" makes me raise my eyebrows.

I know people have different tastes, etc, but China's amazing ancient history, which has for the most part been carefully curated at least in the recent era, has something for everybody!  Ancient naked eye observatories, amazing animals, the Great Wall (I've been to two sections), the terra-cotta warriors (in a very chill town, btw), museums, temples, markets (eg, the bird and insect market in Shanghai), art ... and the FOOD.  No place on earth does food like the Chinese!

And bear in mind what confusedsaffer points out, don't confuse the government with the people--in a half-dozen trips I've met a few a$$h*les, but only at the same rate as anywhere else, most Chinese have been kind and gracious, good folks.

I do have to say though traveling is getting more onerous.  The paperwork for getting my visa (an American) in 2018 was ridiculous, but otoh it's good for 10 years.  My first few visits, to go on the subway, you had to go through bag screening, but not foreigners--I was always waved past.  But not so anymore, when I went in 2018 and 2019, my camera bag was routinely inspected. 

The rise of electronic pay is becoming a problem too.  I did not experience this, but I have heard that some pedicabs/tuk-tuks and street vendors don't even take cash anymore.  Apparently it's to track your income/outgo, like how Matt Gaetz is purportedly getting caught out for paying young ladies for whatever.  I have my visa until 2028, so I certainly hope to take advantage of it a couple more times, there's still loads to see.

Of course, it's not my place to tell you how to spend your time or money (and frankly I wouldn't live there under the Xi regime) but I'm just saying to keep your mind open to China as a vacation possibility.
https://seoulpatch.blogspot.com/search/label/china
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: Kurt Sorensen on May 10, 2021, 09:10:45 am
Mr C, thanks for the blog link. I glanced at it and it looks great. I'll have a good read later. Also interesting what you said about your travels. The truth is I'm just not much of a traveler or a person who enjoys visiting different sites while on holiday. The exception being natural history museums (which I saw in the blog). I'm basically a beach, barbecue, and beer vacationer. China, in fact Asian countries in general have never been on my interested list. Growing up, it was all about the South Pacific and the occasional fleeting idea of going to Britain, Europe, and small town America.   
I don't know any Chinese Chinese people, but I do (did) know a few NZ Chinese. All good folk, but preferred to socialize within their own community.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: Aristocrat on May 10, 2021, 11:19:43 am
Of course, it's not my place to tell you how to spend your time or money (and frankly I wouldn't live there under the Xi regime) but I'm just saying to keep your mind open to China as a vacation possibility.
https://seoulpatch.blogspot.com/search/label/china

Fair enough, my dad visited a few years ago and he's the most apolitical person I know. He enjoyed a few things like the Terracotta Army, The Great Wall and the transportation, but he complained bitterly how dirty the place was and how the air pollution made him sick.

The issue is that, save a few important historical and cultural sights, the cultural revolution destroyed almost everything that made China fascinating. I've spent many deskwarming hours binging over ADV China videos and China can be pretty beautiful in certain rural areas. The problem is... you can't stay the night at MANY hotels as they don't allow foreigners and China is HUGE so it's incredibly inconvenient for foreigners to travel outside the big cities and off the beaten path. Oh, and good luck getting Google or any international kind of navigation to work there. VPNs are always going to be slow.

China sounded fun to travel to 15yrs ago, but no longer.

If I want to experience authentic, traditional Chinese culture I'd rather go to Taiwan.
 
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on May 10, 2021, 01:03:42 pm
If I want to experience authentic, traditional Chinese culture I'd rather go to Taiwan.

Never a truer word spoken. The Chinese people pay lip service to their culture and anything 'cultural' is just another way to get rich. It is an incredibly materialistic society and it's everyman for himself with little social conscience.

To alter course a little, the world is at a crossroad now. It is the same crossroad now that it was in 1939 and the world thought it was not serious. Well we know how that worked out.

As I said, we are there again and unless the CCP is stopped (genocide, deathcamps, organ harvesting, human medical experiments, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Mongolia etc) will be our future. For those who think I am talking nonsense, well you just bury your head in the sand and listen to the CCP'S propaganda and see how that works out for you.

Make no mistake, Xi's plans are like Hitler's, world domination, anyone with half a brain cell can see that, but the world doesn't care because it's all about money, money so they will sell their souls for money but they don't realise they are selling the world to a demonic dictator who will stop at nothing to achieve his goals, even at the cost of millions upon millions of lives. The world needs to make a stand now. Sadly they will realise this when it is too late.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: Kayos on May 10, 2021, 01:12:14 pm
Fair enough, my dad visited a few years ago and he's the most apolitical person I know. He enjoyed a few things like the Terracotta Army, The Great Wall and the transportation, but he complained bitterly how dirty the place was and how the air pollution made him sick.

The issue is that, save a few important historical and cultural sights, the cultural revolution destroyed almost everything that made China fascinating. I've spent many deskwarming hours binging over ADV China videos and China can be pretty beautiful in certain rural areas. The problem is... you can't stay the night at MANY hotels as they don't allow foreigners and China is HUGE so it's incredibly inconvenient for foreigners to travel outside the big cities and off the beaten path. Oh, and good luck getting Google or any international kind of navigation to work there. VPNs are always going to be slow.

China sounded fun to travel to 15yrs ago, but no longer.

If I want to experience authentic, traditional Chinese culture I'd rather go to Taiwan.

Don't forget the VPNs are technically still illegal in China too, though the government the internet is a problem for foreigners and most use VPNs are were thinking of changing the rules about them, but not sure if anything has come of it yet.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: tylerthegloob on May 10, 2021, 01:16:03 pm
selling the world to a demonic dictator
taking the whole "demonizing the enemy" thing and running with it, eh saffer?
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 10, 2021, 01:21:24 pm
If you're a F-visa holder in your 40s making 2.1 at a hagwon, that's a you problem not a Korea problem.

No, that's what the employers are offering.  No extra pay for experience.  It's definately a Korean problem. 
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 10, 2021, 01:22:28 pm
The problem is age 40 means the F points visa is harder to get in the first place now. Also harder to renew. Also renewal is only one year (or even less if income is too low). For me it was previously five years. Now gonna be one. Sucks to have to keep paying 120,000 every year rather than once every five years... plus accumulating necessary paperwork (of which there is a lot) then traveling to the immigration office for yearly renewal.

That's why my friend is leaving.  Korean BS not worth it to him plus shrinking pay with inflation factored in. 
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 10, 2021, 01:24:54 pm
Back in the mid 1980s, my step-brother and his wife (New Zealand Chinese) stopped off in China for a week on their way to the England. They had a suitcase half full of Bibles to give to long lost family members and who knows who else. They knew that this was illegal but did it anyway. Customs got them and hauled them over the coals for 24 hours, lucky not to get kicked out on the next flight. They got fined and the Bibles were confiscated of course. They said that the constant interrogation was so intense that they were both in tears. Ha! No sympathy. Bet they never did that again.

Who cares?  If you want to read a bible, read one.  If you want to read a Koran, read one.  If you want to read a MAXIM, read one.  It ought to be no ones business.  But, with China and many countries, you go to make some money for a time, then move on.  If and when I go, it will be for a few years, not decades. 
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 10, 2021, 01:26:40 pm
90% of applicants currently can't get into China due to several hurdles deliberately put in place by the central government.

Some people can't even get an embassy appointment as the embassy where they are might be closed or not accepting applications. Right now all new applicants need something called a PU letter before they can even apply for a visa, which is issued out on a city by city (and even provincial) basis...most cities and provinces aren't even issuing PU letters right now, but some are. Even if one manages to jump through the hoops and secure a visa, they need to apply for permission to board from the local   Chinese embassy at the port of departure (strict rules on PCR tests etc), and even then those who follow the rules aren't always accepted at this final hurdle.

But with all that said, things are improving. Previously it would have been 99% of people not being able to enter China for work. China should open up more later this year if the current vaccination  trend continues (currently 7mil per day, doubling every 2-3 weeks).

It's opening up slowly now.  It was shut down for Corona. 
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 10, 2021, 01:33:23 pm
If I want to experience authentic, traditional Chinese culture I'd rather go to Taiwan.

Never a truer word spoken. The Chinese people pay lip service to their culture and anything 'cultural' is just another way to get rich. It is an incredibly materialistic society and it's everyman for himself with little social conscience.

To alter course a little, the world is at a crossroad now. It is the same crossroad now that it was in 1939 and the world thought it was not serious. Well we know how that worked out.

As I said, we are there again and unless the CCP is stopped (genocide, deathcamps, organ harvesting, human medical experiments, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Mongolia etc) will be our future. For those who think I am talking nonsense, well you just bury your head in the sand and listen to the CCP'S propaganda and see how that works out for you.

Make no mistake, Xi's plans are like Hitler's, world domination, anyone with half a brain cell can see that, but the world doesn't care because it's all about money, money so they will sell their souls for money but they don't realise they are selling the world to a demonic dictator who will stop at nothing to achieve his goals, even at the cost of millions upon millions of lives. The world needs to make a stand now. Sadly they will realise this when it is too late.

I share little agreement with CCP goals.  Though Chinese people I have met seem like very socialable and friendly people.  Puts some other nearby countries to shame.  However, as an English teacher, when you steer clear of politics, you have lots of freedom there, save for an odd spot check. 

Anyhow, I think the pay in Taiwan sucks.  A few teachers left China and had to work harder and struggle to get enough hours.  Taiwan does have a slightly cheaper living cost than Korea, but you work for hours part time and pay your own rent.  (Public schools require a Bachelor of Education even though you are doing ESL and not actual teaching where you grade the kids, call the parents, elad a homeroom, etc.  Dumb.) 

You will be poor in Taiwan, though it would be great to go for a couple of weeks to visit on vacation.  If I were going to be poor for a year and only a year, I'd hit Japan maybe their far north area.  But, I doubt I would do that though.  Got to be able to afford to live.  I like having money in my pocket intead of struggling.  I did it years ago.  I wish not to repeat being poor with no money in my pocket.  No thanks. 
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on May 10, 2021, 01:42:39 pm
You will be poor in Taiwan,

What absolute horse manure. I get the equivalent of 3.3 million KRW and my friend who works in a private school gets about the same with 20 teaching hours in a week, mornings only which means he has the rest of the day to do privates. So he is smiling all the way to the bank.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: Aristocrat on May 10, 2021, 01:46:15 pm
No, that's what the employers are offering.  No extra pay for experience.  It's definately a Korean problem. 

What qualifications do you have?

Many schools hiring "real" teachers and paying big bucks in places like the UAE don't really count ESL experience as experience. They want experience in teaching a particular curriculum, typically the one being taught at their school. It's not always nice to hear that serious educational institutions don't care about your experience with bomb games or co-teaching an unrecognised curriculum, but that's reality if you want a lucrative teaching position.

So, aside from being older, not as pretty and not knowing how to spell 'definite', what makes you better than the hundred thousand 22yr old undergrad kids going into the ESL field?
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: tylerthegloob on May 10, 2021, 01:51:38 pm
So, aside from being older, not as pretty and not knowing how to spell 'definite', what makes you better than the hundred thousand 22yr old undergrad kids going into the ESL field?
holyshit aristocrat, you didn't have to end this man's whole career
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 10, 2021, 01:59:04 pm
I do wonder why someone who spends their time bashing the libs and the woke for licking the boot of China is so eager to get people to go to China and is willing to help teach a future generation of fentanyl manufacturers, Africa exploiters, Uighur reeducators, and outright spies and soldiers how to speak our language in order to defeat us. All that for an extra million won in wages a month.

Oh wait, I know how they'll justify it- "I'm secretly changing things from the inside mannnn!!!! When I showed them an American character on my bomb game, that broke the conformity."

You know what? We should set a deadline. Anyone working for China after that time should have their citizenship revoked and be declared persona non grata.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: MayorHaggar on May 10, 2021, 05:52:31 pm
However, as an English teacher, when you steer clear of politics, you have lots of freedom there, save for an odd spot check. 

I'd just like to remind everyone that hangook hasn't spent a single minute working in China.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: T_Rex on May 10, 2021, 08:26:44 pm
Have you looked into opportunities in your home country? Back in 2019, I was considering a few offers from Chinese schools. The offers sounded pretty good at the time-16,000 to 20,0000 RMB monthly and housing. However, I chose to start a new career in the US.  I wasn't planning on being an ESL lifer and didn't want to keep delaying the inevitable. Now I make nearly triple what I was making in Korea. I have no regrets about turning down those offers.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: gogators! on May 10, 2021, 10:37:38 pm
I agree wholeheartedly. the Korean government has too much big government influence over every aspect of the market, and the minimum wage here is pathetic. The creeping socialised agenda (BEGUN in Europe, IMPORTED to America and SPREAD throughout the globe) is taking root. Time to hit the ejector seat.
So you're saving up for a SpaceX ticket to Mars?
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on May 11, 2021, 05:31:03 am
I'd just like to remind everyone that hangook hasn't spent a single minute working in China.

It's way more than the odd spot check, believe me as one who lived there. So Major is correct, work there first then make statements like "the odd spot check", 'lots of freedom'. Sadly Hangook has been mislead.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: Aristocrat on May 11, 2021, 08:16:29 am
It's way more than the odd spot check, believe me as one who lived there. So Major is correct, work there first then make statements like "the odd spot check", 'lots of freedom'. Sadly Hangook has been mislead.

To be fair, it could be that South Africans get it worse (the regular visits from police at 11pm etc.) than someone with a EU or US passport. Being incredibly racist and ignorant, it seems the perception there is that anyone with a passport from the African continent is seen as black, poor, nefarious and likely an illegal immigrant.

Still, we've got at least 2 random Canadians guys who're still in Chinese prisons for "espionage" and nothing is more fickle than Chinese politics.

Hangook's idea that if you "steer clear of politics" you'll be fine is quite hilarious. "Politics", in that cesspit, are going to find you whether you like it or not, mate.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on May 11, 2021, 10:11:07 am
To be fair, it could be that South Africans get it worse (the regular visits from police at 11pm etc.) than someone with a EU or US passport. Being incredibly racist and ignorant, it seems the perception there is that anyone with a passport from the African continent is seen as black, poor, nefarious and likely an illegal immigrant.

That would be true for black Africans perhaps but I can tell you that the checks carried out on us had nothing to do with nationality, it had to do with being a foreigner.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 11, 2021, 12:47:20 pm
You will be poor in Taiwan,

What absolute horse manure. I get the equivalent of 3.3 million KRW and my friend who works in a private school gets about the same with 20 teaching hours in a week, mornings only which means he has the rest of the day to do privates. So he is smiling all the way to the bank.

Lots of vids from people who went there and said that.  Also the salaries didn't look so great.  I am not talking about people with education degrees.  I am talking about ESL.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 11, 2021, 01:00:29 pm
What qualifications do you have?

Many schools hiring "real" teachers and paying big bucks in places like the UAE don't really count ESL experience as experience. They want experience in teaching a particular curriculum, typically the one being taught at their school. It's not always nice to hear that serious educational institutions don't care about your experience with bomb games or co-teaching an unrecognised curriculum, but that's reality if you want a lucrative teaching position.

So, aside from being older, not as pretty and not knowing how to spell 'definite', what makes you better than the hundred thousand 22yr old undergrad kids going into the ESL field?

Asides from a smartphone misspelling of a word, what other nonsense do you have?  (Honestly, it's always the most arrogant and stuck up that rather than actually having a good argument have to pick apart one mispelled word in a language with a million different exceptions and words that come from so many multiple languages in it's origins are bound to have the odd mispelled word.  But if that feeds your arrogant pipe dream, so be it.) 

Teachers experienced with children and doing many activities certainly can teach but an arrogant condescending attitude from ignorant stuck up foreigners is part of why the Koreans get away with the exploitation.  Like they are the House Slaves or something.   Apologists for sure.  The truth is someone who has taught for years has been great at knowing how to run a class, have fun activities, can deliver a lesson, and are fun for the kids.  Half of these old twits in ESL or who had a Masters of TESOL or whatever were the most boring nerdiest people I've ever met in my life.  I am surprised they stayed employed.  Kids probably complained about boring teacher.  It does actually take some skill to teach ESL and keep kids attention and interest as well as to manage a class.  Some jackass employer hiring a kid on the cheap then complaining about that kid's teaching ability has no one to blame but himself.  That's what he gets for being a greedy dick hakwon owner.  Either way more pay for experience ought to be the norm and if it isn't folks will leave once other options will become available. 
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 11, 2021, 01:02:12 pm
I just messaged a recruiter.  She did say they are hiring from outside China now.  There are some hoops to jump through and a couple of extra paperwork steps when you send money home from the bank each month, but you get paid to put up with it.  I posted many examples of jobs above. 

Though I am sorry to say that they won't hire South Africans right now due to the strain of covid from there right now.  Hopefully, that will clear up soon too. 

Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: Aristocrat on May 11, 2021, 01:55:57 pm
Asides from a smartphone misspelling of a word, what other nonsense do you have?  (Honestly, it's always the most arrogant and stuck up that rather than actually having a good argument have to pick apart one mispelled word in a language with a million different exceptions and words that come from so many multiple languages in it's origins are bound to have the odd mispelled word.  But if that feeds your arrogant pipe dream, so be it.) 

Teachers experienced with children and doing many activities certainly can teach but an arrogant condescending attitude from ignorant stuck up foreigners is part of why the Koreans get away with the exploitation.  Like they are the House Slaves or something.   Apologists for sure.  The truth is someone who has taught for years has been great at knowing how to run a class, have fun activities, can deliver a lesson, and are fun for the kids.  Half of these old twits in ESL or who had a Masters of TESOL or whatever were the most boring nerdiest people I've ever met in my life.  I am surprised they stayed employed.  Kids probably complained about boring teacher.  It does actually take some skill to teach ESL and keep kids attention and interest as well as to manage a class.  Some jackass employer hiring a kid on the cheap then complaining about that kid's teaching ability has no one to blame but himself.  That's what he gets for being a greedy dick hakwon owner.  Either way more pay for experience ought to be the norm and if it isn't folks will leave once other options will become available. 

You make it very difficult to feel sorry for someone like you.

While having never taught in China nor Taiwan, you claim to know better than a man who has taught in both countries.

If you think you're entitled to higher pay, your C.V needs to reflect that you qualify for it. Since you've evaded my questions about qualifications, I'm going to assume that you only have an undergraduate degree... and there's nothing wrong with that. To people who hate studying and are content with a 3mil cap that's cool. Nothing wrong with teaching ESL in Korea either, no need to tie you career to your self worth, but you're demanding people pay you more money so here we go:

- You were born in 1977, I assume.
- Lets assume you graduated when you were 23
- That means, you're around 45 and in the past 22yrs you've done jack sh*t to improve your qualifications as a teacher.
- A prospective employer is going to look at your application and see this massive gap and deduce that you're no particularly
  serious about improving your craft.

Then you have the downright arrogance and audacity to sneer at educated people who spent time, money and effort into studying to become better teachers as being boring, compared to you because you're more fun and interesting... you know what the kids also find fun and interesting? Jesters, clowns, monkeys, comedians and entertainers. Consider those fields.
Don't preach to us about what it takes to teach ESL, everyone here has at least 7yrs of ESL experience under their belt. ESL in South Korea really doesn't demand much. It's a frustrating job, but not demanding in the slightest. It would seem that a BA graduate is all it takes to teach key expressions from a YBM textbook with a few flashy games thrown in. Keeping students interested only requires a BA graduate. Getting academic results out of them requires a certified teacher WITH a solid curriculum AND a lot more authority than we're given.

You think THAT is what certified teachers, teaching American, British or South African curriculums are doing?
The day a real teacher's responsibilities, classroom management, curriculum and lesson planning are put on your desk is the day you're going to sh*t a chicken!

I give Koreans a lot of sh*t but do you know what they do when they want more money or a promotion? They do courses and postgrad work. They don't whine and complain, they improve themselves and work towards the money.

So, go to China. Like South Korea, they're not looking for you to produce academic results, they just want another funny little foreigner to make them laugh.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: tylerthegloob on May 11, 2021, 02:02:11 pm
holyshit aristocrat, you didn't have to end this man's whole careeragain
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on May 11, 2021, 02:08:47 pm
Lots of vids from people who went there and said that.  Also the salaries didn't look so great.  I am not talking about people with education degrees.  I am talking about ESL.

Some of my friends aren't licenced teachers and they are not poor. Not sure where you are getting your information from but it is wrong.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: L I on May 11, 2021, 02:26:58 pm
ESL in Taiwan has been on the decline for a while. Oversaturated market. Harder to get a good job while at the same time adjusted for inflation wages are going down. But the term poor is relative. For a South African the pay is good. Average wages in South Africa are roughly $6k a year.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on May 11, 2021, 02:40:11 pm
Hangook77, you are spending an awful amount of your time trying to convince people that China is the better option. Well maybe for you it is but for most folk here it isn't (CCP, internet censorship, lack of personal freedom, danger of being arrested without cause, moral reasons etc, etc).

No one is telling you not to go and if you want to go it's your choice but don't go in blindly and think it is all rosy and pink unicorns. It is not. It is a big challenge to live there as a foreigner these days, way harder than it was for me.

The CCP wants to stay in power forever (1000 year Reich) and they can only do so by keeping massive control over their people and making them believe that theirs is the only true system for happiness.

How do they do that? Massive nationalism through indoctrination. It starts at kindergarten and never lets up. Walk into any classroom and you will find propaganda books littering the classroom, it's in their curriculum, it's in their faces 24/7 and though the majority of people don't give a flying fig about the CCP, they will kowtow because they don't want their lives disrupted BUT there is a large % of real hardcore nationalists that will do anything to deify the CCP plus there are now incentives by the CCP to report your neighbor should they show any disregard for the CCP. 

So, as a foreigner, you may be completely innocent but some dude doesn't like you (took his girlfriend or something like that), you are a sitting duck. You won't get legal representation or even if you do it is token only and you are dead in the water. The conviction rate in China is almost 100%.

So, by all mean go, but really think carefully about it.  There is a verse from the Bible that comes to mind ( I am not Bible punching) just using it as an illustration.  What use is it that a man gains the whole world but loses his soul..
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on May 11, 2021, 02:42:52 pm
ESL in Taiwan has been on the decline for a while. Oversaturated market. Harder to get a good job while at the same time adjusted for inflation wages are going down. But the term poor is relative. For a South African the pay is good. Average wages in South Africa are roughly $6k a year.

L I, you are here? You speak with such authority. Just to point out your error. Recently the government has declared that English will be their 2nd language and they are pumping millions into English education, so don't be so sure that it's on the decline. My program in one county will get 300 additional teachers this coming academic year.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 11, 2021, 03:12:02 pm
You make it very difficult to feel sorry for someone like you.

While having never taught in China nor Taiwan, you claim to know better than a man who has taught in both countries.

If you think you're entitled to higher pay, your C.V needs to reflect that you qualify for it. Since you've evaded my questions about qualifications, I'm going to assume that you only have an undergraduate degree... and there's nothing wrong with that. To people who hate studying and are content with a 3mil cap that's cool. Nothing wrong with teaching ESL in Korea either, no need to tie you career to your self worth, but you're demanding people pay you more money so here we go:

- You were born in 1977, I assume.
- Lets assume you graduated when you were 23
- That means, you're around 45 and in the past 22yrs you've done jack sh*t to improve your qualifications as a teacher.
- A prospective employer is going to look at your application and see this massive gap and deduce that you're no particularly
  serious about improving your craft.

Then you have the downright arrogance and audacity to sneer at educated people who spent time, money and effort into studying to become better teachers as being boring, compared to you because you're more fun and interesting... you know what the kids also find fun and interesting? Jesters, clowns, monkeys, comedians and entertainers. Consider those fields.
Don't preach to us about what it takes to teach ESL, everyone here has at least 7yrs of ESL experience under their belt. ESL in South Korea really doesn't demand much. It's a frustrating job, but not demanding in the slightest. It would seem that a BA graduate is all it takes to teach key expressions from a YBM textbook with a few flashy games thrown in. Keeping students interested only requires a BA graduate. Getting academic results out of them requires a certified teacher WITH a solid curriculum AND a lot more authority than we're given.

You think THAT is what certified teachers, teaching American, British or South African curriculums are doing?
The day a real teacher's responsibilities, classroom management, curriculum and lesson planning are put on your desk is the day you're going to sh*t a chicken!

I give Koreans a lot of sh*t but do you know what they do when they want more money or a promotion? They do courses and postgrad work. They don't whine and complain, they improve themselves and work towards the money.

So, go to China. Like South Korea, they're not looking for you to produce academic results, they just want another funny little foreigner to make them laugh.

No, I just happen to know people who have taught in those countries as well as done lots of research.  I also can see the pay advertised.  It doesn't take a genius to see what they are paying.  So, a course and post grad work will make a uni or hakwon pay more than 2.1 million won?  Most still pay shit no matter what qualifications you have.  Waste of damn time.  Every other occupation got a cost of living increase.  The unionized bus drivers, the factory workers, they didn't take a course.  This is the ultimate lame apologist BS.  Always make excuses.  Raise the pay or start losing teachers.  I don't have to do anything nor do many other teachers leaving.  Experience is experience.  Being a better teacher through experience is being a better teacher through experience. 

No matter what arrogant BS you put out there, pay in Korea was good and now it isn't.  If it doesn't go up soon, people will leave for better paying jobs, except for a small minority (like yourselves).  There is something to being an experienced teacher and even Koreans ask for it and want it.  They just aren't willing to pay for it.  So, it will be time to move to where the pay is higher.  Simple.  Don't need to waste time and money in anything else, except maybe a TESOL course.  I'm talking about ESL anyways, which most of us do on here.   
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 11, 2021, 03:13:30 pm
L I, you are here? You speak with such authority. Just to point out your error. Recently the government has declared that English will be their 2nd language and they are pumping millions into English education, so don't be so sure that it's on the decline. My program in one county will get 300 additional teachers this coming academic year.

So, the pay in Taiwan will rise soon?  Great.  Maybe it will be time to reconsider.  So far the pay hasn't risen for ESLers there.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 11, 2021, 03:17:26 pm
Hangook77, you are spending an awful amount of your time trying to convince people that China is the better option. Well maybe for you it is but for most folk here it isn't (CCP, internet censorship, lack of personal freedom, danger of being arrested without cause, moral reasons etc, etc).

No one is telling you not to go and if you want to go it's your choice but don't go in blindly and think it is all rosy and pink unicorns. It is not. It is a big challenge to live there as a foreigner these days, way harder than it was for me.

The CCP wants to stay in power forever (1000 year Reich) and they can only do so by keeping massive control over their people and making them believe that theirs is the only true system for happiness.

How do they do that? Massive nationalism through indoctrination. It starts at kindergarten and never lets up. Walk into any classroom and you will find propaganda books littering the classroom, it's in their curriculum, it's in their faces 24/7 and though the majority of people don't give a flying fig about the CCP, they will kowtow because they don't want their lives disrupted BUT there is a large % of real hardcore nationalists that will do anything to deify the CCP plus there are now incentives by the CCP to report your neighbor should they show any disregard for the CCP. 

So, as a foreigner, you may be completely innocent but some dude doesn't like you (took his girlfriend or something like that), you are a sitting duck. You won't get legal representation or even if you do it is token only and you are dead in the water. The conviction rate in China is almost 100%.

So, by all mean go, but really think carefully about it.  There is a verse from the Bible that comes to mind ( I am not Bible punching) just using it as an illustration.  What use is it that a man gains the whole world but loses his soul..

It's because you same 5 or 6 people keep arguing with me over what was originally a helpful how to transfer money out of China post.  Then you 5 or 6 guys hopped in like you always do and bash and trash and defend Korea's low wages and claim with a never can do spirit that it is shameful if anyone wants better.  As for China, they will do what they will do.  As for the west, they too.  What about all the stuff they do and or ignore?  Anyways, if you want to work for less or are a certified teacher who can work for more, then go do it.  No need to troll and argue with the majority of teachers who are ESLers. 
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: L I on May 11, 2021, 03:25:36 pm
What use is it that a man gains the whole world but loses his soul..

You were kicked out of SMOE due to age, so went to China. Then you were forced out of there due to age, too. If the CCP hadnít given you the boot, youíd still be there. Blessing in disguise because you discovered Taiwan, the place you love.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: Aristocrat on May 11, 2021, 03:30:03 pm
No matter what arrogant BS you put out there, pay in Korea was good and now it isn't.  If it doesn't go up soon, people will leave for better paying jobs, except for a small minority (like yourselves).  There is something to being an experienced teacher and even Koreans ask for it and want it.  They just aren't willing to pay for it.  So, it will be time to move to where the pay is higher.  Simple.  Don't need to waste time and money in anything else, except maybe a TESOL course.  I'm talking about ESL anyways, which most of us do on here.   

Which is why I'd prefer to do the mature thing and be grateful for my time in Korea, improve my qualifications and bow out with some grace for a higher paying position in a different country that requires more expertise, responsibility and gives more authority.
I'm set to leave next year. Salaries are getting too low in Korea for my liking, yes, but I'm not going to be an entitled prick and blame anyone for it.
I suspect you'll STILL be here, re-hashing the same thread. On the bright side, you'll still be around when Korea adjusts their clothing sizes.

Don't need to waste time and money in anything else, except maybe a TESOL course.

Certainly not, since you truly are God's gift to Pedagogy, employers and students should pay you 5mil won a month for nothing more than the pleasure of smelling your dusty farts.
Come back and read this quote when you've become the weird 50yr old dude, pissed that he's still going on education office workshops with a bunch of 24yr olds.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on May 11, 2021, 03:43:48 pm
If the CCP hadnít given you the boot, youíd still be there.

Wrong again.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: L I on May 11, 2021, 07:25:58 pm
Reading your posts, one would certainly get that impression...

One of the problems people face when they hit 60 is in Asia it is impossible to get a visa to work. I faced this problem when China changed the rule in the province I taught, Henan, from 65 to 60. I wasn't able to renew my visa and contract.

I then hit Google and found a recruitment agency, Dewey, mailed them and stated my problem and was chuffed when I got the reply, no age limit in Taiwan, you may apply.

Obviously you have to do your homework, but there are many great gigs in China. I was sorry I had to leave due to my age but I had a great job. Everything was free. I only paid for my food I ate, the rest of my salary I put into my pocket.

Plenty of part time jobs there too, illegal but you can do it if you stay under the radar.

...but people change. Maybe you feel differently now.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: L I on May 11, 2021, 07:38:51 pm
I get the equivalent of 3.3 million KRW

Heads up to readers:

I am a licenced teacher and if you have 12 years or more teaching experience in a public school you get top of the scale

3.3 is possible... but not typical.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on May 11, 2021, 07:52:47 pm
Reading your posts, one would certainly get that impression...
 
...but people change. Maybe you feel differently now.

Absolutely, very different now.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: dippedinblush on May 11, 2021, 09:55:50 pm
Have you looked into opportunities in your home country? Back in 2019, I was considering a few offers from Chinese schools. The offers sounded pretty good at the time-16,000 to 20,0000 RMB monthly and housing. However, I chose to start a new career in the US.  I wasn't planning on being an ESL lifer and didn't want to keep delaying the inevitable. Now I make nearly triple what I was making in Korea. I have no regrets about turning down those offers.

What did you end up doing at home?
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: Kayos on May 12, 2021, 08:21:05 am
What qualifications do you have?

Many schools hiring "real" teachers and paying big bucks in places like the UAE don't really count ESL experience as experience. They want experience in teaching a particular curriculum, typically the one being taught at their school. It's not always nice to hear that serious educational institutions don't care about your experience with bomb games or co-teaching an unrecognised curriculum, but that's reality if you want a lucrative teaching position.

So, aside from being older, not as pretty and not knowing how to spell 'definite', what makes you better than the hundred thousand 22yr old undergrad kids going into the ESL field?

Japan is like that too, and one of the reasons the starting salaries are quite low when you try to go there, they only really count "ESL experience from within Japan." There are likely places that might count any. But, I've been interviewed by many of the ALT companies, and a few Eikaiwa's, and they have all stated that.
Even though teaching in Japan for us, is basically the same as Korea, except the levels tend to be a bit lower (2 years ago, a friend of mine teaching at a high school showed me some exam questions, and it was at the level that my grade 1 middle school textbook level).
A bit of a tangent, but my point is, even in ESL in Asia, some places will only consider experience from within their country.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: Kayos on May 12, 2021, 08:32:03 am
You make it very difficult to feel sorry for someone like you.

While having never taught in China nor Taiwan, you claim to know better than a man who has taught in both countries.

If you think you're entitled to higher pay, your C.V needs to reflect that you qualify for it. Since you've evaded my questions about qualifications, I'm going to assume that you only have an undergraduate degree... and there's nothing wrong with that. To people who hate studying and are content with a 3mil cap that's cool. Nothing wrong with teaching ESL in Korea either, no need to tie you career to your self worth, but you're demanding people pay you more money so here we go:

- You were born in 1977, I assume.
- Lets assume you graduated when you were 23
- That means, you're around 45 and in the past 22yrs you've done jack sh*t to improve your qualifications as a teacher.
- A prospective employer is going to look at your application and see this massive gap and deduce that you're no particularly
  serious about improving your craft.

Then you have the downright arrogance and audacity to sneer at educated people who spent time, money and effort into studying to become better teachers as being boring, compared to you because you're more fun and interesting... you know what the kids also find fun and interesting? Jesters, clowns, monkeys, comedians and entertainers. Consider those fields.
Don't preach to us about what it takes to teach ESL, everyone here has at least 7yrs of ESL experience under their belt. ESL in South Korea really doesn't demand much. It's a frustrating job, but not demanding in the slightest. It would seem that a BA graduate is all it takes to teach key expressions from a YBM textbook with a few flashy games thrown in. Keeping students interested only requires a BA graduate. Getting academic results out of them requires a certified teacher WITH a solid curriculum AND a lot more authority than we're given.

You think THAT is what certified teachers, teaching American, British or South African curriculums are doing?
The day a real teacher's responsibilities, classroom management, curriculum and lesson planning are put on your desk is the day you're going to sh*t a chicken!

I give Koreans a lot of sh*t but do you know what they do when they want more money or a promotion? They do courses and postgrad work. They don't whine and complain, they improve themselves and work towards the money.

So, go to China. Like South Korea, they're not looking for you to produce academic results, they just want another funny little foreigner to make them laugh.

Again to back up your fun and interesting point. In my first year teaching in Korea, on the first 2 days I had to go to 2 different schools to watch the foreign teacher's evaluation class.
Day 1) I watched a passionate teacher deliver a really well done elementary lesson, the kids were engaged with the lesson and even the lowest level students were able to demonstrate doing it on their own without the words and stuff in front of them too. This teacher got a 60/100 from the education office and school.

Day 2) Middle school lesson. The guy showed up with bags of candy, he played YT vid after YT vid for the lesson, and just threw candy to the students after every 2nd video. His score: 100/100.

Now, if you were actually the one hiring for your school and wanted real academic growth, which one would you want to hire? Cause the one that would have done that was non-renewed (granted, they were planning to leave anyway). The 2nd one is a waste of money.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: Kyndo on May 12, 2021, 10:18:00 am
Good lord. What do you think was the reason for the weird scoring?
Was the one decidedly more attractive than the other or something?

Honestly, unless those open lessons are evaluated by an outsider, they're a total joke. If the school likes you, you get perfect scores. If not, not.
I've always done well on my evaluations (perfect scores 5 years running baby!  :afro: ), but I really wish that I would have a real evaluation. I haven't had an honest critique of my teaching style for a very very long time. Would love to have actual constructive input! :sad:
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: Kayos on May 12, 2021, 10:35:31 am
Good lord. What do you think was the reason for the weird scoring?
Was the one decidedly more attractive than the other or something?

Honestly, unless those open lessons are evaluated by an outsider, they're a total joke. If the school likes you, you get perfect scores. If not, not.
I've always done well on my evaluations (perfect scores 5 years running baby!  :afro: ), but I really wish that I would have a real evaluation. I haven't had an honest critique of my teaching style for a very very long time. Would love to have actual constructive input! :sad:

Basically, the education office lady of the city was there to evaluate the foreign teacher, the principal and someone else was there to evaluate them too, and me and 2 others that started in that city at the same time had to evaluate them too. After the class we had to talk and discuss the lessons that we watched.
I think the result was, and bare in mind this was like almost 5 years ago, the person who done good was leaving, so they didn't really care how they scored them. I think, that person just wouldn't bend to office politics, but was great in the classroom. Whereas the 2nd person was well liked because they made the students happy and were no problem for the Korean teachers.

For me, I've only had 1 evaluation lesson in my 5 years in Korea, and it was last year, and it was on request. Basically, they'd tell me I have one on x-date and no one would show up. Last year, my Wednesday school just started getting to me too much, the school... can't do anything about it... so I asked the education office to change me to a different school because of the issues. They wanted to see the issues first hand, however, they gave the school the date in advance, got the students to behave for that lesson with me, and so they didn't see the problems, but used that class to evaluate me  and I got close to a perfect score (they wanted to see more worksheets given to the students was their only gripe - but my co-teacher said, whenever we give them worksheets, they just rip/cut them up, so it's a waste of paper).
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: Kyndo on May 12, 2021, 10:56:22 am
So frustrating!!
 What's the point in scheduling open classes or evaluations beforehand? Given notice, they end up being full-on movie productions. Special effects and everything!

Heck, a few years ago, one of the teachers rehearsed the class with her students like 4 or 5 times so that it would work out for the evaluation.
Complete and utter waste of time.

Make 'em surprise evaluations, or don't bother at all.
The same goes for those building fire-inspections etc. Such a joke.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 13, 2021, 12:23:44 pm
Which is why I'd prefer to do the mature thing and be grateful for my time in Korea, improve my qualifications and bow out with some grace for a higher paying position in a different country that requires more expertise, responsibility and gives more authority.
I'm set to leave next year. Salaries are getting too low in Korea for my liking, yes, but I'm not going to be an entitled prick and blame anyone for it.
I suspect you'll STILL be here, re-hashing the same thread. On the bright side, you'll still be around when Korea adjusts their clothing sizes.

Certainly not, since you truly are God's gift to Pedagogy, employers and students should pay you 5mil won a month for nothing more than the pleasure of smelling your dusty farts.
Come back and read this quote when you've become the weird 50yr old dude, pissed that he's still going on education office workshops with a bunch of 24yr olds.

Nothing about being entitled.  I refuse to defend wage dicks who keep wages low just because they can.  The other professions have gotten raises and cost of living increases.  Even the cleaning ajummas who cleans my friend's apartment building.  He told me she got 2.3 million.  Unionized bus drivers who made 2 million won and factory workers who made 1.5 million a month while hakwon workers made 2.1 to 2.3 million a month now make much more.  ESL jobs still paying 2.1 to 2.3 while unionized bus drivers make over 3 plus million won now and the factory jobs are paying 2.7 to 3.0 million (for the migrant workers).

Had friends take Masters to get uni job that paid the same and even less than years ago when they hired folks with experienced and Bachelors.  Not exactly stellar case here.  Will the schools pay more, not at all?  A few will, but many will not.  Waste of time.  It's about respect and not entitled.  But folks who want to be arrogant and feel stuck up and superior to anyone else is free to do as they wish.  Either Korea pays and steps up or starts losing their teachers.  Slow exodus beginning.  Folks are voting with their feet.  Slow trickle.  But will become gushing river.

Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: Kyndo on May 13, 2021, 12:38:26 pm
K-pop is the dam to that river.
Halyu forever, oppa! *squueeeee*!

You want to tip the market in the ESL worker's favour? Attack the root of the problem: Korean cultural export. If Korea loses its cultural draw, far fewer newly graduated folk will be looking for work here, which will drive up those wages!

Alternatively, one can just not worry about it and just make oneself more marketable (as you yourself have done, from what I've read). Nobody who's worked in Korea for more than a few years should be earning entry level wages, so this ridiculously low entry wage isn't really applicable to them.  :undecided:
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 13, 2021, 12:42:34 pm
I don't buy the majority come over here to meet bts or super junior.  Like maybe .02%.  That's a bunch of propoganda.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: Kyndo on May 13, 2021, 12:53:43 pm
I've assisted in organizing an ESL orientation or two, and culture is definitely something that many quote as being a factor in deciding where to go. Trust me, your percentage is off by 2, 3, or even 4 orders of magnitude!
    I wouldn't say it's the number one most important factor, but it does play a huge part for many.

Awareness, familiarity, and a general conception of the culture being cool/interesting/kawaii will go a long way towards attracting those who want to spend a year abroad and are trying to decide their destination.

And yeah, I agree that propaganda is definitely an important part of cultural export!
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: D.L.Orean on May 13, 2021, 12:58:28 pm
I don't buy the majority come over here to meet bts or super junior.  Like maybe .02%.  That's a bunch of propoganda.

What/How much did you know about Korea before you first came? Even if people aren't into the pop culture exports, Korea is definitely in the consciousness of more people than 10/15/20 years ago. I'd guess the pop culture stuff is a big part of that.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: L I on May 13, 2021, 01:36:05 pm
BTS has been added to the performer lineup at the 2021 Billboard Music Awards, where they will give the debut television performance of their upcoming English-language single "Butter" on May 23.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.billboard.com/amp/articles/news/awards/9570490/bts-performing-butter-2021-billboard-music-awards/


Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 13, 2021, 01:55:22 pm
I don't buy the majority come over here to meet bts or super junior.  Like maybe .02%.  That's a bunch of propoganda.
You know, when I think of "People who are clued into what the Age 18-30 demographic are into", the first name that pops into my head is hangook77.

We all know what a social butterfly you are and how plugged into the world of the 20 somethings you are, so obviously we should take your claim at face value.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: tylerthegloob on May 13, 2021, 02:28:09 pm
yeah a big reason i ever came to korea (or perhaps even THE reason) was starcraft. not exactly BTS *squeeee* but, close enough. .02%er reporting in!
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 13, 2021, 03:09:05 pm
You know, when I think of "People who are clued into what the Age 18-30 demographic are into", the first name that pops into my head is hangook77.

We all know what a social butterfly you are and how plugged into the world of the 20 somethings you are, so obviously we should take your claim at face value.

If you're 30 and screming BTS, you have a serious mental problem.  I know a lot of Koreans in their 20's (former students) and none of them scream and jump up and down about BTS.  They did that shit when they were elementary and middle school age.  They outgrew that by mid 20's if not sooner for sure.  If some 28 year old foreign chick is hanging out at a BTS concert with Middle School girls, that is lame as shit. 

I've also dated Korean women late 20's and early 30's (and attracted attention from some working at Starbucks or where ever early to mid 20's too).  None of them friek out over BTS.  If anything, they think they look too girly.  Trust me, the majority of folks are not into this stuff.  They travel for a gap year or they believe the outdated lines recruiters tell from 10 or 15 years ago that they can make a lot of money to pay off their loans.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 13, 2021, 03:09:52 pm
How did a posting about how to send money out of China turn into a multipage arguement over Korea?  This is getting lame. 
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: 745sticky on May 13, 2021, 03:28:03 pm
If you're 30 and screming BTS, you have a serious mental problem.  I know a lot of Koreans in their 20's (former students) and none of them scream and jump up and down about BTS.  They did that shit when they were elementary and middle school age.  They outgrew that by mid 20's if not sooner for sure.  If some 28 year old foreign chick is hanging out at a BTS concert with Middle School girls, that is lame as shit. 

I've also dated Korean women late 20's and early 30's (and attracted attention from some working at Starbucks or where ever early to mid 20's too).  None of them friek out over BTS.  If anything, they think they look too girly.  Trust me, the majority of folks are not into this stuff.  They travel for a gap year or they believe the outdated lines recruiters tell from 10 or 15 years ago that they can make a lot of money to pay off their loans.

maybe i missed something but im genuinely confused here, what do koreans in their 20s have to do with anything at all? i'm assuming this is in response to the discussion on why people move over here... are korean girls moving from korea to korea to teach ESL?

anyways, the k-pop craze is a lot bigger than you make it out to be (well, in the states at least, idk how into it people in SA or what have you are, so ill plead ignorance on that). sure it isnt a massive cultural movement or anything but i had at least 1 or 2 k-pop crazies in most of my college courses, and BTS has sold out pretty much every concert they've had in the states (almost immediately most of the time. hell hangook if you really need money you could take up scalping tickets as a side hustle lol)
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 13, 2021, 04:58:25 pm
If you're 30 and screming BTS, you have a serious mental problem.  I know a lot of Koreans in their 20's (former students) and none of them scream and jump up and down about BTS.  They did that shit when they were elementary and middle school age.  They outgrew that by mid 20's if not sooner for sure.  If some 28 year old foreign chick is hanging out at a BTS concert with Middle School girls, that is lame as shit. 
What? As opposed to grown ass men yelling, screaming and fighting over 22 people chasing a ball? Slamming a bunch of beers at some rock concert and banging your head for two hours and trying to dodge security to spark a j? Who gives a shit? Most people have at least one childish hobby. For some its Star Wars or video games. For others its BTS. Big Fing Deal.

Anyways, interest in Kpop groups usually go until about 25 or whenever undergrad is over, but I've seen BTS fans into their 30s even 40s. They aren't part of any mafia, but they like to feel young and enjoy the whole thing. Why the F do you think they appeared on Ellen anyways? That's not exactly the 13-25 demographic there?

Quote
Trust me, the majority of folks are not into this stuff
Majority? No. More than like .02%? Sure.

Just because YOU aren't into something, doesn't make it lame, stupid, or not popular.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 13, 2021, 05:00:22 pm
I've also dated Korean women late 20's and early 30's (and attracted attention from some working at Starbucks or where ever early to mid 20's too).  None of them friek out over BTS.  If anything, they think they look too girly.
BTS being a topic of conversation during your dates or while getting a latte at Starbucks?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreliable_narrator
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 14, 2021, 07:49:14 am
BTS being a topic of conversation during your dates or while getting a latte at Starbucks?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreliable_narrator

They've never brought it up to me.  They have no interest in it whatsoever.  They outgrew it.  Elementary school girls and middle schools like them here and apparently a small minority of 25 year old white chicks.  I may have asked a couple if they liked them but they didn't really care about them.  I also said in another thread that I knew of some 20 something women who saw a really skinny guy the way most Koreans use to be and she kept commenting to me how gross it was being too skinny.  They hated it.   So BTS skinny feminine doesn't turn the adult women on here. 
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 14, 2021, 07:49:53 am
How does a thread on sending money of China turn into a love on for BTS by DeMartino?
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: 745sticky on May 14, 2021, 07:51:32 am
They've never brought it up to me.  They have no interest in it whatsoever.  They outgrew it.  Elementary school girls and middle schools like them here and apparently a small minority of 25 year old white chicks.  I may have asked a couple if they liked them but they didn't really care about them.  I also said in another thread that I knew of some 20 something women who saw a really skinny guy the way most Koreans use to be and she kept commenting to me how gross it was being too skinny.  They hated it.   So BTS skinny feminine doesn't turn the adult women on here.

How does a thread on sending money of China turn into a love on for BTS by DeMartino?

I'm not sure whether I hate this because of what a dumpster fire it is / will cause or whether I love this because of how incredibly ironic and entertaining it is / will prove to be
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: tylerthegloob on May 14, 2021, 08:12:07 am
BTS has some absolute bangers.

"Shoes on, get up in the morn'
Cup of milk, let's rock and roll"


also, for what its worth, BTS isn't the only cultural export. look at all the k-dramas on netflix (a few of which are actually good). look at 420BONG blazeitJOON-HO collecting awards like a kid collecting candy on halloween. any kid who plays any kind of competitive video game is aware of how good the koreans are.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: CO2 on May 14, 2021, 08:27:01 am
BTS has some absolute bangers.

"Shoes on, get up in the morn'
Cup of milk, let's rock and roll"


Come on, now. Share the whole verse.

Shoes on, get up in the morn'
Cup of milk, let's rock and roll
King Kong, kick the drum
Rolling on like a Rolling Stone
Sing song when I'm walkin' home
Jump up to the top, LeBron
Ding-dong, call me on my phone
Ice tea and a game of ping pong

I don't need my lyrics to make sense (It's Alright, Ma is one of my fave songs of all time) but this?

Ugh. It's honestly like Friday by Rebecca Black.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 14, 2021, 09:08:01 am
I'm not sure whether I hate this because of what a dumpster fire it is / will cause or whether I love this because of how incredibly ironic and entertaining it is / will prove to be

If any slight perceived criticism of Korea is detected by some, the hairs on their back get raised and they leap into action.  I still say BTS sucks though.  (I pretend to be interested in them in class due to my elementary kids liking them in Gr 6.) 

As someone else said, some dramas are good.  My folks currently living in America, liked Mr. Sunshine on Netflix.  One of my friend's moms said she watched a couple of dramas on Netflix in Canada. 
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: L I on May 14, 2021, 09:28:01 am

K-pop megaband BTS will cover the June issue of U.S. pop culture magazine Rolling Stone for the first time "after years of asking for it," the magazine announced Thursday night.

https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/2021/05/14/entertainment/kpop/BTS-Rolling-Stone-cover/20210514094102214.html

Rolling Stone also posted an article titled "The Triumph of BTS," which explained how "seven young superstars rewrote music-biz rules and became the biggest band in the world."

Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: 745sticky on May 14, 2021, 09:56:40 am
If any slight perceived criticism of Korea is detected by some, the hairs on their back get raised and they leap into action.  I still say BTS sucks though.  (I pretend to be interested in them in class due to my elementary kids liking them in Gr 6.) 

As someone else said, some dramas are good.  My folks currently living in America, liked Mr. Sunshine on Netflix.  One of my friend's moms said she watched a couple of dramas on Netflix in Canada.

I mean don't get me wrong I'm not a huge fan of BTS myself, but that's less to do with any particular fault of theirs and more that I just don't really like k-pop/pop in general (i dont really mind it if I hear it walking around or in a store or whatever, its just not something i specifically choose to listen to in my free time)
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 14, 2021, 09:59:36 am
Given the lousy manufactured pop that has taken over music charts the last 10 years, this is hardly a leap.  There was a time when Rolling Stone actually covered bands that wrote their own music and made their own contracts.  They haven't been relevant in years.  Still some great rock bands out there that still put out stuff but charts ignore them all now mostly. 

Of course, it's not to say I don't mind some poppy songs.  Exes listening to that music makes you more use to it and not minding certain songs.  Some are hybrid songs between rock and pop.  Still I have a lot more respect for those that write their music and play their own instruments.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: 745sticky on May 14, 2021, 10:05:43 am
i mean theyre almost two different mediums with two different skillsets, pop/kpop can def be more "manufactured" but it also requires a lot more work on the image side of things (costumes/makeup, dancing, etc).

also what takes up the music charts only really matters if you pay attention to the music charts. there are a lot better ways to find good music these days than radio top 100 or whatever.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 14, 2021, 11:19:24 am
They've never brought it up to me. 
Wait, so you claim to have attracted some attention from a girl working at Starbucks, and because in your at most two minute interaction while ordering a Venti latte, she didn't mention BTS, therefore BTS is not popular? Seriously? Is that really how your thought process works?

Did they bring up how they wipe their ass? No? Well, then they must not do it.
1) Just because someone doesn't mention something doesn't mean they aren't into it.
2) Korean women dating foreigners are probably disproportionately likely not to be into Kpop. Like white women dating black guys might be disproportionately not into rock music.

Quote
Elementary school girls and middle schools like them here and apparently a small minority of 25 year old white chicks.
This is based on research? Now, I'm not privy to numbers here, but I do notice that abroad the fact that BTS is appearing on Ellen and Rolling Stone, not exactly the biggest hits with the 13-25 demo, and that back home one of the biggest demos (at the time) for pop radio stations was soccer moms, it stands to reason that there is at least a significant number of women aged 25+ who are into them.

I'm pretty sure that if one of the members of BTS were to walk into a room of single women aged 25-40, they'd be doing better than any of us, whether people knew they were in BTS or not.

Quote
I may have asked a couple if they liked them but they didn't really care about them.
Impressive sample size.

Quote
I knew of some 20 something women who saw a really skinny guy the way most Koreans use to be and she kept commenting to me how gross it was being too skinny.  They hated it.   So BTS skinny feminine doesn't turn the adult women on here.
I believe it was a 'woman', singular, and she is a sample size of one. Because this singular individual doesn't like some way skinny guy, it is clearly enough to draw conclusions over for ALL adult women in Korea. Also, not all BTS members are rail skinny or feminine looking.

Also, I forgot this-
Quote
to meet bts or super junior
Yeah, you're definitely up to date.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 14, 2021, 11:19:57 am

Quote
How does a thread on sending money of China turn into a love on for BTS by DeMartino?
Because we were debating why people come to Korea. You asserted that it was some tiny sliver of the NETs that came for cultural reasons. You disagreed despite everyone else telling you, you were wrong. You then went on to assert that anyone who was above a certain age that liked them had a mental problem (Newsflash, if that's your response to things and how you perceive the world, YOU are the one with the mental problem). The pushback is on whether you have your finger on the pulse of Korea and what Koreans are into (as well as NETs) and basically everyone is saying that we think you probably aren't the most reliable or accurate source of information on that.

Quote
If any slight perceived criticism of Korea is detected by some, the hairs on their back get raised and they leap into action.
It's not slight perceived criticism, it's bad criticism. And you made one of the most common bad criticisms that people do-

"I saw something happen involving one or a handful of people, therefore I am going to draw conclusions about it and apply them to the entire country."

And this isn't the first time. This has been done with clothes as well. It seems to be a common method of "thinking" (it's not really thinking, because it is more akin to evolutionary instinct). To take one incident applying TO YOU and apply it to every "other" and assume that's the reality of the situation.

Question- Why do you take these and conclude that they're the norm rather than treating them as individual anecdotes? Are you aware of small sample size bias and confirmation bias and think you've corrected for those? Or do you just settle on the first reaction you have?
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 14, 2021, 11:36:35 am
Shit!  This post is about how to send money out of China legally from the bank.  Seriously Martino!??!
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: tylerthegloob on May 14, 2021, 11:42:26 am
I also said in another thread that I knew of some 20 something women who saw a really skinny guy the way most Koreans use to be and she kept commenting to me how gross it was being too skinny.  They hated it.   So BTS skinny feminine doesn't turn the adult women on here. 
actually i wanna come in here and say that i have VIDEO PROOF that at least one member of bts can do at least 17 pushups and at least 4 pullups. i'm pretty sure that in THE BIG BOOK OF RULES you're not allowed to call someone skinny if they're pound for pound stronger than you so i'm gonna need VIDEO PROOF that you can do one or both of those things. until then, BTS are not skinny they're s h r e d d e d

ayo kyndo feel free to slap this bad boy down in the aforementioned thread if this is too off-topic (or split the whole BTS convo here into a new thread if you want to do that you sly dog)
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 14, 2021, 12:23:40 pm
Shit!  This post is about how to send money out of China legally from the bank.  Seriously Martino!??!
Dude, don't whine because you make a nonsense claim and get pushback on it.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: 745sticky on May 14, 2021, 12:34:29 pm
actually i wanna come in here and say that i have VIDEO PROOF that at least one member of bts can do at least 17 pushups and at least 4 pullups. i'm pretty sure that in THE BIG BOOK OF RULES you're not allowed to call someone skinny if they're pound for pound stronger than you so i'm gonna need VIDEO PROOF that you can do one or both of those things. until then, BTS are not skinny they're s h r e d d e d

ayo kyndo feel free to slap this bad boy down in the aforementioned thread if this is too off-topic (or split the whole BTS convo here into a new thread if you want to do that you sly dog)

people ran out of useful things to say in like the first 3 posts just let the thread run its course
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 14, 2021, 01:25:37 pm
Dude, don't whine because you make a nonsense claim and get pushback on it.

Whine?  You keep rambling on about things not related to the original post.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 14, 2021, 01:27:22 pm
people ran out of useful things to say in like the first 3 posts just let the thread run its course

First two of them were mine.  Not sure what the deal is after those.  A couple folks arguing on this thread about this, that, and the BTS thing. 
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 14, 2021, 01:47:11 pm
Whine?  You keep rambling on about things not related to the original post.
This started with you complaining about the salaries and people willing to accept 2.1.
Then Kyndo pointed out how this was due to people willing to come because they were into Korean culture and have fun for a gap year or two.
You said this wasn't true with "I don't buy the majority come over here to meet bts or super junior.  Like maybe .02%.  That's a bunch of propoganda."
Kyndo then cited his experience in conference organizing where culture was listed as a factor by a significant number of people.

This should have been the end of the argument with you going "Well, I guess things have changed. People are coming here just for culture and it IS driving down wages." But you didn't do that. You doubled down.

Then, I finally showed up by pointing out how you probably aren't the most accurate or reliable analyst of what young people are into and their motivations.

Again, rather than acknowledging your limited knowledge and expertise on this or providing some kind of analysis or source, you doubled down. This time with "If you're 30 and screming BTS, you have a serious mental problem.  I know a lot of Koreans in their 20's (former students) and none of them scream and jump up and down about BTS.  They did that shit when they were elementary and middle school age.  They outgrew that by mid 20's if not sooner for sure.  If some 28 year old foreign chick is hanging out at a BTS concert with Middle School girls, that is lame as shit. "

In other words, you're losing the argument so you decided to just hurl insults ( A sign of both losing an argument and cognitive dissonance). Then you wrote this- "I've also dated Korean women late 20's and early 30's (and attracted attention from some working at Starbucks or where ever early to mid 20's too).  None of them friek out over BTS.  If anything, they think they look too girly.  Trust me, the majority of folks are not into this stuff.  They travel for a gap year or they believe the outdated lines recruiters tell from 10 or 15 years ago that they can make a lot of money to pay off their loans.". What that has to do with how NETs coming here for the culture and driving down wages, I have no idea.

Then, you accused people of going off-topic. This after ranting about lower wages, and then instead of accepting why wages were being driven lower, you ranted about BTS and how someone who is into them has mental problems. You followed this up by introducing an irrelevancy.

Next, I pointed out a host of flaws in your reasoning and conclusions.

And AGAIN, your response, rather than admitting flaws in your reasoning, was to do the "You're off topic" thing. When it was you who doubled-down and then went off-topic in the first place....
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 14, 2021, 01:59:04 pm
This started with you complaining about the salaries and people willing to accept 2.1.


I started this post about transferring money via local bank out of China.  Better go back and re read the original post.  This is just getting weird.  I understand why folks quit this site and migrate over to the Facebook groups. 
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: SPQR on May 14, 2021, 02:09:27 pm
people ran out of useful things to say in like the first 3 posts just let the thread run its course

Totally agree here. Useless, verbose garbage with little meaning or fact.
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 14, 2021, 02:35:44 pm
I started this post about transferring money via local bank out of China.  Better go back and re read the original post.  This is just getting weird.  I understand why folks quit this site and migrate over to the Facebook groups. 

Quote
Nothing about being entitled.  I refuse to defend wage dicks who keep wages low just because they can.  The other professions have gotten raises and cost of living increases.  Even the cleaning ajummas who cleans my friend's apartment building.  He told me she got 2.3 million.  Unionized bus drivers who made 2 million won and factory workers who made 1.5 million a month while hakwon workers made 2.1 to 2.3 million a month now make much more.  ESL jobs still paying 2.1 to 2.3 while unionized bus drivers make over 3 plus million won now and the factory jobs are paying 2.7 to 3.0 million (for the migrant workers).

Had friends take Masters to get uni job that paid the same and even less than years ago when they hired folks with experienced and Bachelors.  Not exactly stellar case here.  Will the schools pay more, not at all?  A few will, but many will not.  Waste of time.  It's about respect and not entitled.  But folks who want to be arrogant and feel stuck up and superior to anyone else is free to do as they wish.  Either Korea pays and steps up or starts losing their teachers.  Slow exodus beginning.  Folks are voting with their feet.  Slow trickle.  But will become gushing river.

Anyways, keep doing this rather than admit your take that almost no one is coming here for culture is a trash take.

Again-
Quote
This should have been the end of the argument with you going "Well, I guess things have changed. People are coming here just for culture and it IS driving down wages."
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: L I on May 15, 2021, 12:53:36 pm
Hangeul, the Korean alphabet, will be seen in McDonaldís in its outlets across the world starting this month.

McDonaldís, the fast food restaurant chain, is teaming up with BTS to release a new celebrity meal on May 26.


http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20210514000553

The crew T-shirts, which will be worn by McDonaldís employees worldwide, include a logo of both BTS and McDonaldís as well as Hangeul consonants of each party.

Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: OnNut81 on May 16, 2021, 02:08:57 pm
I started this post about transferring money via local bank out of China.  Better go back and re read the original post.  This is just getting weird.  I understand why folks quit this site and migrate over to the Facebook groups. 

Are you thinking of making that move in a couple of years?  Just winding up loose ends here first?  What's it like posting in Facebook groups?  This is the only Korean posting site I've ever wasted time on. 
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 17, 2021, 08:13:38 am
Are you thinking of making that move in a couple of years?  Just winding up loose ends here first?  What's it like posting in Facebook groups?  This is the only Korean posting site I've ever wasted time on. 

I don't know.  Like posting anywhere's I guess.  More people, I suppose.  First Dave's lost lots of users.  They migrated over here.  Now, they have migrated to Fbook groups, I guess.      Not sure, I only post here during desk warming time.  I am rarely on here or there on weekends.  Seems lots of folks do post all weekend long. 
Title: Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
Post by: hangook77 on May 21, 2021, 05:10:09 am
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nr89cXZpOo