Waygook.org

Symposium => "Open" Discussions => Topic started by: tylerthegloob on April 16, 2021, 03:22:37 pm

Title: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: tylerthegloob on April 16, 2021, 03:22:37 pm
let's settle this. i dont wanna hear any "i'm a centrist" silliness. just lean left or right. just pick one
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: L I on April 16, 2021, 03:26:56 pm
Im a centrist!

The world needs more centrists. (People like Sam Harris.)
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: L I on April 16, 2021, 03:28:24 pm
The poll will be better if it includes centrist. How about amending it?
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: 745sticky on April 16, 2021, 03:29:38 pm
Im a centrist!

The world needs more centrists. (People like Sam Harris.)
sigh

The poll will be better if it includes centrist. How about amending it?
no
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on April 16, 2021, 03:53:32 pm
Poor Tyler: Attempts earnest poll for our enlightenment, is about to be bombarded with three straight pages of people taking the piss and posting memes and bad puns.

Where do I put down Commie-Nazi Fascist-Anarchist?
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on April 16, 2021, 04:00:33 pm
I think the more apt description for waygook.org people is a pub side known for its shithousery.
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: SPQR on April 16, 2021, 04:35:27 pm
I abstained from voting. I don't think these terms have meaning anymore.
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: thunderlips on April 16, 2021, 05:06:20 pm
I lean right while taking a piss.
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: Mr C on April 16, 2021, 05:45:30 pm
let's settle this. i dont wanna hear any "i'm a centrist" silliness. just lean left or right. just pick one

I'm assuming this is meta. 
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on April 16, 2021, 05:52:39 pm
At this point responding, with it 6-2 conservative we have tyler, 745, Mr. C, thunderlips, and SPQR who have posted, who are all established left/anti-Trump (now one can still lean right and be anti-Trump so that isn't conclusive, though the initial point was not just them right-wing but ""Aging loser who couldn't make it in his home country" describes like 50% of the expat males teaching in Korea. Not surprising it's a magnet for conservatives." as well as the idea that such a term doesn't in any way describe any of the left-leaners) but I do think that while the poll results are something (and having called for a poll, I can't totally poo-poo it because it isn't going "my way"), it does seem that there is something of a disconnect.

I mean, so far somewhat right-wing has only described, of posters, me and L I. L I a self-proclaimed centrist and me who is probably the most lefty of the various righties on here.
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: CO2 on April 16, 2021, 06:48:27 pm
I voted right just to mess with Haggar.
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: MayorHaggar on April 16, 2021, 07:08:53 pm
I only have one political master

(https://media.tenor.com/images/0d80cddcfc87d366999eaa6e711faf69/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: DocH on April 17, 2021, 01:58:03 am
Quote
April 16, 2021
Disturbing historical parallels in how the Democrat party's going lately
By Drew Allen

If we could go back in time and warn the German people of the true intentions of the Nazi Party, would it have made any difference?  Or would the German people have called us conspiracy theorists and rushed to the defense of Hitler and the Nazi Party?

We can't go back in time, but we can study the past in an effort to avoid repeating history.  What if I told you that what happened to Germany in the 1930s is happening in America today?  That the Democrat Party aspires to seize absolute control of America in the same manner in which the Nazi Party did?  Even if I could convince you, would it change anything?  I suppose it's worth trying.

The event that sparked the Nazi Party's takeover of Germany was their version of our January 6 "insurrection."  A supposed 24-year-old communist sympathizer named Marinus van der Lubbe was arrested on the night of February 27, 1933 for setting fire to the Reichstag, the German parliament building their citadel of liberty.

Adolf Hitler used the incident to expel the communists from public office, censor free speech, and arrest the Nazis' political opposition.  "Communist" became synonymous with "treason."  They suspended the constitutional rights of the German people by passing the "Decree of the Reich President for the protection of the People and state."  They seized control of Germany under the guise of defending Democracy.  Sound familiar?

Following our January 6 "insurrection," the Washington Post published an opinion piece with the headline: "Democrats are faced with a choice. Protect the Filibuster or protect democracy."  Like the Nazi Party, the Democrat Party cunningly hides its totalitarianism behind the mask of defending democracy.

In the elections that followed the "Insurrection of the Reichstag" in March of 1933, the Nazi Party won 43.9% of the vote.  Despite gaining 92 seats in the German Parliament, the Nazi Party had failed to win a de facto ruling majority.  So, on March 23, 1933, Hitler proposed the "Enabling Act," also known as the "Law to Remedy the Distress of People and the Reich."  The act passed, and Germany became a dictatorship, ruled by Hitler and the Nazi regime.

Like the Nazi Party, the Democrat Party today is not content with the White House or its slim majority in the House.  Absolute power is the Democrats' goal.  While the Senate is split 50-50, the golden goose is the Supreme Court.  Like it or not, the Supreme Court is our last remaining bulwark against the Democrat Party's totalitarian ambitions.  While many of our own justices on the Supreme Court are milquetoast at best, based on the Supreme Court's recent 5-4 decision to lift restrictions on prayer meetings in private homes, the left does not have firm control of the highest court in our land.  This frustrates the Democrat Party to no end.

The Democrat-controlled Congress has proposed adding four activist justices to the Supreme Court.  If they pack the court, the Supreme Court will become a notary for the Democrat Party, rubber-stamping approval on any and every unconstitutional law proposed.  The Democrats will have carte blanche to overturn the 2nd Amendment and rule by fiat.  The Constitution will be rendered a worthless piece of paper, with no legal authority.

Do not be nave and take Nancy Pelosi's recent dismissal of the proposed court-packing bill to mean they do not intend to pack the Supreme Court.  They do, and they will.  This is a strategy.  While the Biden Committee studies the issue, Democrat activists will pressure Democrat senators to support the bill.  The propagandist media will campaign to persuade their voter base that this is justified.  Biden's exploratory committee will then complete their "study" and determine that court-packing is A-OK.  Democrats will then use the approval from the "committee" as legal justification to pass the bill.

The Democrat Party will need the Supreme Court to uphold the H.R. 1 bill, should it pass.  H.R. 1, otherwise known as the "For the People Act," is unconstitutional it would federalize elections, which is a clear violation of the Constitution, and grant the Democrat Party the unconstitutional authority to unilaterally change election laws in all 50 states.  Like the Nazi-proposed "Law to Remedy the Distress of People and the Reich," the "For the People Act" has nothing to do with the people and everything to do with ending free and fair elections, just as the Nazi bill did in Germany.

George Washington warned Americans of this happening in his Farewell Address in 1796.  He said, "One method of assault may be to effect, in the forms of the Constitution, alterations which will impair the energy of the system, and thus to undermine what cannot be directly overthrown."  This was true in Nazi Germany, and it is true in America today.  The Nazi Party couldn't win a de facto majority through elections, so the Nazis passed a bill to seize power.  The Democrat Party can't win a de facto majority through elections, so they propose H.R. 1 and packing the Supreme Court.

Frederick Douglass once said, "The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."  We better tap into vast stores of endurance, because if not, we might as well say, "Heil the Democrat Party."
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: Adel on April 17, 2021, 04:55:54 am
Quote
Drew Allen has lived and worked in Italy in the fashion industry and in New York City and Los Angeles as an actor, screenwriter, and independent film producer.

It looks as though he specialises in works of fiction and fantasy.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2021/03/climate_change_obsession_is_a_cult.html
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: T_Rex on April 17, 2021, 06:20:15 am
The results of this quiz tell me I'm a Core Conservative:
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/quiz/political-typology/

But I think their description of a Country First Conservative fits me better.
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: DocH on April 17, 2021, 06:23:00 am
The results of this quiz tell me I'm a Core Conservative:
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/quiz/political-typology/

But I think their description of a Country First Conservative fits me better.

You're probably more along the lines of the Classic Liberal, not the imposter ideology representing what is known as "liberalism", today. 
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: T.J. on April 17, 2021, 11:15:07 am
My daily podcast list:
The Dan Bongino Show
The Buck Sexton Show
The Jesse Kelly Show
The Glenn Beck Program
The Ben Shapiro Show

Weekend podcasts:
The Joe Pags Show
Dark Secret Place with Bryan Suits

I voted right.
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: KimDuHan on April 17, 2021, 04:43:53 pm
 :blank:
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: VanIslander on April 17, 2021, 06:40:46 pm
Lean?

More like SWAY, depending on the issue.

The gov't has a role to help the sick, poor and old (sway left) but the gov't is pretty incompetent, wasteful and corrupt at times (sway right).

The Left says trust the gov't and science.
The Right says trust corporations and self-interest.

Both are full of **** and a lot of people know it.

But a lot of people are tribal in their thinking and affiliations, and so both have a legion of relentless supporters.

Politics sucks. Neither a king nor the masses nor an elite few nor a majority can rule perfectly.

But some forms of gov't are worse than others, not in abstract (like Plato's three forms argument for democracy as the worst ideally run but least worst when corrupted), but depending on the particulars of a time and place and society (given the situational needs and excesses).
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: tony tony tony on April 17, 2021, 08:56:36 pm
DocH, do you live in Korea? I'm genuinely curious. I've only ever seen you posting about American politics on here.
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: JNM on April 17, 2021, 10:27:33 pm
No.

My answer to the OP is No.
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: VanIslander on April 19, 2021, 04:45:41 am
Who do you trust?

A professional doctor of dentistry who says your cavities should be replaced or the farm-raised experienced old guy who says pull the teeth because it'll leave more space for the "wisdom" teeth molars (a consequence the dentist strongly rejects).

Both top back cavity teeth were pulled as per my dad's farm-upbringing instructions. The dentist said the gap will remain whereas my dad said the wisdom teeth will push the gap closed. Thankfully I was a teenager intimidated by a Clint Eastwood-like dad, because today I cannot even put a thin white floss in what was the gap from the extracted teeth. My wisdom teeth grew in strong. I have in the 35 years since, had nothing except once-in-a-decade cleaning at a dentist.

F dentists. They used to give me sugar candy. Really? Shouldn't they have given nuts to re-mineralize teeth with potassium and magnesium?!

And the night I stayed in a hospital they fed me jello (really? how tf can this help my body? And I passed the Pepsi machine on my way out of the building.

One of the leading causes of death in America is "medical treatment". Look it up. This is not an indictment on all medical services but a cautionary note: look at the history of this versus that.

That said, I sway left in terms of universal emergency room coverage. Every human being deserves top-notch surgery and treatment in cases of emergency. I cannot fathom a world worth keeping that doesn't do everything it can to save lives at IMMEDIATE risk.
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: DocH on April 19, 2021, 07:51:03 am
...
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: hippo on April 19, 2021, 10:32:22 pm
up up down down left right left right b a
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: Mr C on April 20, 2021, 07:31:43 am
Lean to the left!
Lean to the right!
Stand up! Sit down!
Fight! Fight! Fight!

--Lazlo Toth, aka Don Novello
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: 745sticky on April 20, 2021, 07:40:59 am
DocH already muted? unsurprising
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: 745sticky on April 20, 2021, 07:44:04 am
DocH, do you live in Korea? I'm genuinely curious. I've only ever seen you posting about American politics on here.
thats not true, he's also extremely active in the jobs forum going off at recruiters lol
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: hangook77 on April 20, 2021, 07:46:06 am
My comments lean towards common sense and being the real "woke" as opposed to this fake cliched woke that is taught in the schools nowadays.  I am awake in other words. 
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: D.L.Orean on April 20, 2021, 07:48:10 am
My comments lean towards common sense and being the real "woke" as opposed to this fake cliched woke that is taught in the schools nowadays.  I am awake in other words.

And everyone else is sleeping
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: hangook77 on April 20, 2021, 12:13:24 pm
And everyone else is sleeping

Apparently.  Debt crises and massive inflation coming but most folks are asleep.  They'll regret the day unless they prepared.  Forcing women to let men compete in their sports and use their bathrooms is a more important issue than heading off a major financial crises, it seems.  Good one, sleepy Joe.
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: hippo on April 20, 2021, 10:00:46 pm
Once everyone has the same opinions as me, things will be just.  On a planet of more than seven billion people, my particular ideological belief system has discovered the solutions.  I have found a belief system with answers for all problems.  If only everyone thought like me, we would finally reach the end of history.  Everyone but my group are a bunch of lemmings.


Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: Mr C on April 20, 2021, 10:25:34 pm
Once everyone has the same opinions as me, things will be just.  On a planet of more than seven billion people, my particular ideological belief system has discovered the solutions.  I have found a belief system with answers for all problems.  If only everyone thought like me, we would finally reach the end of history.  Everyone but my group are a bunch of lemmings.


Might I suggest you run for President?  Hippo-POTUS has a nice ring to it.
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: hippo on April 21, 2021, 01:48:04 pm
Might I suggest you run for President?  Hippo-POTUS has a nice ring to it.

I want to do what is best for my family and my country.  I am focused right now on performing my duties as an EFL instructor since I believe this and political discussions primarily focusing on US politics  through expat forums will have the most impact.  If the EFL industry and the state of discourse on connected websites becomes less constructive, I will consider running for office or doing real world things to create tangible change.  Until then, I will limit myself to voting in US elections via mail and Korean local elections. I do not want to rule anything out however.   
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: hangook77 on April 22, 2021, 11:37:49 am
A debt crises, a run on the currency, and hyper inflation cares not about any of our opinions nor about how much we virtue signal or don't virtue signal.  When the time comes, we all have to pay the reaper when he's come to collect.  Bad policies for decades result in the chickens coming home to roost.  Corona money printing has just pouring hyperinflation fuel on the fire.  Hence the rise in gold prices and folks including me jumping on the crypto train. 
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: gogators! on April 23, 2021, 04:30:49 am
Apparently.  Debt crises and massive inflation coming but most folks are asleep.  They'll regret the day unless they prepared.  Forcing women to let men compete in their sports and use their bathrooms is a more important issue than heading off a major financial crises, it seems.  Good one, sleepy Joe.
I hope you don't make any investment decisions based on the idea that massive inflation is coming because it isn't. But it's a free world so throw away your hard-earned or hardly-earned money.
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: Liechtenstein on May 21, 2021, 09:42:27 am
The results of this quiz tell me I'm a Core Conservative:
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/quiz/political-typology/

But I think their description of a Country First Conservative fits me better.

Decent quiz. I'm a Market Sceptic Republican, whatever that means.

Back to the question, my politics lean to the right. They haven't always done so.

I'm not sure how accurate this quote from DeMartino is,

"Aging loser who couldn't make it in his home country" describes like 50% of the expat males teaching in Korea."

although Korea did seem to attract an lot of weirdoes.

Some folks (men and women) don't have a home country, They have a country they were born in, but home doesn't fit the bill.
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: tony tony tony on May 21, 2021, 10:13:20 am
I'm a "classic" style, Liberal. In the vein of Jordan Peterson and Samuel Harris.

Not a Clintonian Liberal as the media would have it!
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: hangook77 on May 21, 2021, 10:24:38 am
I was a traditional liberal and centrist years ago.  But the far left with their woke insanity and extremism, has pushed me into the right I guess.  Liberals use to believe in free speech and respect for each other no matter what your personal beliefs on topics were.  Now, the woke kids and crazies have taken over the left and you will be cancelled if you dare even to slightly disagree with them.   Bill Maher gets it right sometimes, but what he gets wrong is the Democrats will shake off this new extreme ideology  that has infiltrated and taken it over.  He wrongly claims Biden is ignoring them.  But instead, he has them working for him controlling the levers of government agencies putting their woke BS into everything, even the military.  (I mean next time there's a war, the enemy will respect a gender fluid inclusive military.  That'll win a war rather than toughness, grit, and technology?)   Anyways, the Marxist nutjobs have taken over the left.  I know a lot of older Liberal types that shake their head at this crap, though they aren't quite ready to make the leap like I did to the Trump side. 
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: Kyndo on May 21, 2021, 12:46:31 pm
Do you mean the Republican side?
I've seen a few people talk about the Trump side recently, and I'm wondering if that's short-hand for "the Republican side", or if it something different, politically speaking?
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: tony tony tony on May 21, 2021, 01:09:33 pm
I was a traditional liberal and centrist years ago.  But the far left with their woke insanity and extremism, has pushed me into the right I guess.  Liberals use to believe in free speech and respect for each other no matter what your personal beliefs on topics were.  Now, the woke kids and crazies have taken over the left and you will be cancelled if you dare even to slightly disagree with them.   Bill Maher gets it right sometimes, but what he gets wrong is the Democrats will shake off this new extreme ideology  that has infiltrated and taken it over.  He wrongly claims Biden is ignoring them.  But instead, he has them working for him controlling the levers of government agencies putting their woke BS into everything, even the military.  (I mean next time there's a war, the enemy will respect a gender fluid inclusive military.  That'll win a war rather than toughness, grit, and technology?)   Anyways, the Marxist nutjobs have taken over the left.  I know a lot of older Liberal types that shake their head at this crap, though they aren't quite ready to make the leap like I did to the Trump side. 

It's absolutely crazy to me that Marxism is coming back.

We defeated this vile ideology in World War 2. We defeated this accursed politcal stance in the Korean War. In the Cold War, we defeated this ideology a third and final time. And yet now it returns in America.
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: Kyndo on May 21, 2021, 01:13:54 pm

We defeated this vile ideology [Marxism] in World War 2.
The defeat of Nazi Germany opened the doors to Marxism. We [the West] were literally on the same side as the Marxists.
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 21, 2021, 01:18:36 pm
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/quiz/political-typology/
That survey was just far too binary. Basically all of the questions I'm like "Why not both?" and that it depends on the situation.

It seemed like it was a survey designed to force me into one category rather than trying to best capture what my political sentiments are. They really should use a 7 point Likert scale for each individual statement.
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: tony tony tony on May 21, 2021, 01:20:45 pm
The defeat of Nazi Germany opened the doors to Marxism. We [the West] were literally on the same side as the Marxists.

Nationalist SOCIALISM. Two sides of the same coin.
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: hangook77 on May 21, 2021, 01:29:32 pm
The defeat of Nazi Germany opened the doors to Marxism. We [the West] were literally on the same side as the Marxists.

I hate both extremes, though I can't get kids today who think Communism is not that bad and that all the Communist and Marxist governments are not real Communism.  Kind of like saying Mussolini and Hitler weren't real fascists and fascism isn't so bad.  Pretty ludicrous, right? 
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: Kyndo on May 21, 2021, 01:32:44 pm
Nazi ideology wasn't terribly similar to Marxism. Very different brands of socialism.
The same currency, sure, but not the same coin.
...although that's kind of a vague quantifier. Let's just say they're no more similar thanAmerican Free-market capitalism is to and Scandinavian mixed-market capitalism.

Not all socialism is the same, despite the memes that elderly Americans like to post whenever people talk about subsidized medical care etc.  :wink:

I hate both extremes,
Moderation in the heart of excess is the key to success!
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: hangook77 on May 21, 2021, 01:42:22 pm
Lean?

More like SWAY, depending on the issue.

The gov't has a role to help the sick, poor and old (sway left) but the gov't is pretty incompetent, wasteful and corrupt at times (sway right).

The Left says trust the gov't and science.
The Right says trust corporations and self-interest.

Both are full of **** and a lot of people know it.

But a lot of people are tribal in their thinking and affiliations, and so both have a legion of relentless supporters.

Politics sucks. Neither a king nor the masses nor an elite few nor a majority can rule perfectly.

But some forms of gov't are worse than others, not in abstract (like Plato's three forms argument for democracy as the worst ideally run but least worst when corrupted), but depending on the particulars of a time and place and society (given the situational needs and excesses).

Except, Trump is willing to tariff companies that outsource and wants to change bad trade deals.  (Traditional Republicans want companies to be free to outsource and do as they wish.)  Corporations are going over to the Democrats because they are caring more about stupid woke politics and getting government money (contracts, welfare, etc).  What may have been Democratic positions in many areas minus the big government spending seems to be going over to Republicans.  What was once the domain of Republicans with corporate interests seem to be going more Democratic.  Many Republicans such as Marco Rubio even expressed support for some Amazon workers trying to unionize in Alabama or Mississippi.  (I forget which state.)  So, the politics are realigning.   I think Republicans will be in favor of free enterprise where it relates to small and medium size business while being less inclined to large corporations in the future.  Steve Bannon once said in an interview after he left the Trump White House that he wanted to push for the top rate on incomes over 5 million dollars a year to be slightly higher and incomes under that to get a tax cut as opposed to the tax cut bill that did go through.  So, there is a shifting going on.  (I personally believe the rich making 4 or 5 million or more can afford to pay slightly more maybe an extra point or two percentage wise.  But keep them low for others below that amount.  Also I believe keeping corporate taxes too low is not necessary either.  Don't raise too high either.  But a couple of percentage points is fine while keeping low for small business and maybe for corporations with a low market capitalization. )
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: gogators! on May 21, 2021, 11:59:09 pm
It's absolutely crazy to me that Marxism is coming back.

We defeated this vile ideology in World War 2. We defeated this accursed politcal stance in the Korean War. In the Cold War, we defeated this ideology a third and final time. And yet now it returns in America.

Who specifically was defeated during the Korean War? The only reason the war ended was Russia ordered Mao, who was willing to sacrifice millions of Chines soldiers just to kill American ones, to stand down.

If it was defeated a "final time," how could it return?

American workers haven't done all that well since the end of the Cold War. Makes one wonder what "ideology" you subscribe to.
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: fka on May 22, 2021, 10:19:50 am
That survey was just far too binary. Basically all of the questions I'm like "Why not both?" and that it depends on the situation.

It seemed like it was a survey designed to force me into one category rather than trying to best capture what my political sentiments are. They really should use a 7 point Likert scale for each individual statement.

Yes, there were tons of questions in that survey that were impossible to answer because most reasonable responses would be context-dependent. I took it a few weeks ago and can't remember the exact way that most questions were expressed, but one was asking you to agree or disagree with the statement that corporations should be subject to more tax. Well, which corporations? How much more tax? In the US, there are at least 6 types of business structures that fall under the legal definition of a corporation. How am I supposed to answer a question like that?
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: tony tony tony on May 22, 2021, 10:56:24 am
If it was defeated a "final time," how could it return?

This is the question I'm asking myself every day when I say AOC on television. How?! How are we back here.

American workers haven't done all that well since the end of the Cold War. Makes one wonder what "ideology" you subscribe to.

"classic" style Liberal, as I mentioned before. But I definitely lean to more republican than wacky SJW democrat.
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: waygo0k on May 22, 2021, 04:43:01 pm
Nationalist SOCIALISM. Two sides of the same coin.

Someone literally fell for the branding trick...80+ years on.

Amazing!

Ps: DEMOCRATIC People's Republic of Korea.
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: fka on May 22, 2021, 06:21:03 pm
This is the question I'm asking myself every day when I say AOC on television. How?! How are we back here.

"classic" style Liberal, as I mentioned before. But I definitely lean to more republican than wacky SJW democrat.

Can you give us some examples of AOC's television quotes that you consider Marxist?

I'd also like to know which Marxist countries we defeated in World War II. Your first attempt at an answer failed, given a) the Nazis' persecution of Marxists, b) Hitler's published condemnations of Marxism and c) Allied powers' temporary alliance with Marxist countries.

I'm rolling the dice on you having no idea what Marxism actually means, but I'll reserve judgment until you answer these questions. 
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: tony tony tony on May 22, 2021, 10:01:51 pm
Ps: DEMOCRATIC People's Republic of Korea.

You actually think 'Rocket Man' Kim Jong Un is a DEMOCRATIC leader? Don't make me laugh. Now I've seen it all.

Can you give us some examples of AOC's television quotes that you consider Marxist?

I'd also like to know which Marxist countries we defeated in World War II. Your first attempt at an answer failed, given a) the Nazis' persecution of Marxists, b) Hitler's published condemnations of Marxism and c) Allied powers' temporary alliance with Marxist countries.

I'm rolling the dice on you having no idea what Marxism actually means, but I'll reserve judgment until you answer these questions. 

She praises Russia. She praises the Soviet Union, for Christ's sake. She stand against the free market, the very thing America was built on. What more do you need?

Oh, and nationalist SOCIALISM. I've said it before and I've said it again. B-but it wasn't real Marxism, right? Real marxism could never fail... Don't make me laugh. NOW I've seen it all!
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: gogators! on May 23, 2021, 02:17:10 am
You actually think 'Rocket Man' Kim Jong Un is a DEMOCRATIC leader? Don't make me laugh. Now I've seen it all.

She praises Russia. She praises the Soviet Union, for Christ's sake. She stand against the free market, the very thing America was built on. What more do you need?

Oh, and nationalist SOCIALISM. I've said it before and I've said it again. B-but it wasn't real Marxism, right? Real marxism could never fail... Don't make me laugh. NOW I've seen it all!
For facts' sakes, how about some direct quotations or links?

For someone "who's seen it all," your posts are sure bombastic.
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: waygo0k on May 23, 2021, 09:49:04 am
Nationalist SOCIALISM. Two sides of the same coin.

+

You actually think 'Rocket Man' Kim Jong Un is a DEMOCRATIC leader? Don't make me laugh. Now I've seen it all.

(https://www.memesmonkey.com/images/memesmonkey/3c/3c3e7ba777caf8325531e87dbbde7863.jpeg)
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: fka on May 23, 2021, 10:20:32 am

She praises Russia. She praises the Soviet Union, for Christ's sake. She stand against the free market, the very thing America was built on. What more do you need?


Um, are you aware that the Soviet Union was dissolved in 1991? Does AOC praise modern-day, capitalist Russia or the old communist Soviet Union? The implications are quite different depending on which one. You still need to provide evidence. So far we have no clips, no links, nothing...
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: fka on May 23, 2021, 11:20:45 am
You actually think 'Rocket Man' Kim Jong Un is a DEMOCRATIC leader? Don't make me laugh. Now I've seen it all.


https://youtu.be/Wv_JTjYYaQI (https://youtu.be/Wv_JTjYYaQI)
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: fka on May 23, 2021, 12:58:31 pm
Modern American conservatives:

"Kids these days are getting indoctrinated into Marxist ideology by their teachers, the media and Democrat politicians. It's scary. They don't learn anything about about the horrors of Stalinism. A few more years of this and they'll turn America into North Korea. They need to learn about the realities of Marxism"

Can you explain your understanding of Marxism?

"Cancelling Dr. Seuss, Black Lives Matter, public health care, trans women in sports, de-platorming Milo, Twitter's content moderation policies, Nancy Pelosi, criticisms of Jordan Peterson, a math textbook with racially diverse stock photos, energy saving lightbulbs, Antifa, the WAP video... You know, all the Marxist stuff."
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: Kyndo on May 24, 2021, 07:15:10 am
You actually think 'Rocket Man' Kim Jong Un is a DEMOCRATIC leader? Don't make me laugh. Now I've seen it all.
I believe that you may have missed the point.

The official name for North Korea is the DPROK (the Democratic People's Republic of Korea). The previous poster mentioned this to illustrate that just because a country or party calls itself something doesn't necessarily make it true (just as describing the Nazi party as Nationalist socialism would be... uh... a bit of a misnomer).
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: hangook77 on May 24, 2021, 08:23:44 am
Modern American conservatives:

"Kids these days are getting indoctrinated into Marxist ideology by their teachers, the media and Democrat politicians. It's scary. They don't learn anything about about the horrors of Stalinism. A few more years of this and they'll turn America into North Korea. They need to learn about the realities of Marxism"

Can you explain your understanding of Marxism?

"Cancelling Dr. Seuss, Black Lives Matter, public health care, trans women in sports, de-platorming Milo, Twitter's content moderation policies, Nancy Pelosi, criticisms of Jordan Peterson, a math textbook with racially diverse stock photos, energy saving lightbulbs, Antifa, the WAP video... You know, all the Marxist stuff."

Par the course for the leftist crazies.  The extremists are out in full force.  Better get Trump back in there soon.  (Once they find the fraud.)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQdoDeIQfGg
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: tylerthegloob on May 24, 2021, 08:28:18 am
Better get Trump back in there soon.  (Once they find the fraud.)
holy shit he still thinks trump is getting back into office
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: 745sticky on May 24, 2021, 09:23:45 am
I believe that you may have missed the point.

The official name for North Korea is the DPROK (the Democratic People's Republic of Korea). The previous poster mentioned this to illustrate that just because a country or party calls itself something doesn't necessarily make it true (just as describing the Nazi party as Nationalist socialism would be... uh... a bit of a misnomer).

I dunno if I'd call describing the Nazi party as Nationalist Socialism a "misnomer", they were pretty socialist economically. I mean sure the rest of their policies were pretty different to standard socialism bu that's where the "Nationalist" part comes in
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: Kyndo on May 24, 2021, 09:55:34 am
I dunno if I'd call describing the Nazi party as Nationalist Socialism a "misnomer", they were pretty socialist economically. I mean sure the rest of their policies were pretty different to standard socialism bu that's where the "Nationalist" part comes in
You're right, maybe "misnomer isn't quite the right word, but I feel that it's not even remotely the best word to describe their party goals. Maybe "misleading" would've been better?
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: fka on May 24, 2021, 10:41:39 am
I think "misnomer" is accurate. The Nazis privatized many businesses that had been public assets in the Weimar Republic, including banks, the railway network, chemical companies, steelworks, shipbuilding, etc. Most centralized economic control related to militarization. They eliminated collective bargaining, persecuted trade unionists, froze wages and issued propaganda equating entrepreneurialism with racial advancement. They also permitted and encouraged the use of slave labor.

Not very socialist.
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: 745sticky on May 24, 2021, 11:25:11 am
You're right, maybe "misnomer isn't quite the right word, but I feel that it's not even remotely the best word to describe their party goals. Maybe "misleading" would've been better?
I wouldn't say its "misleading" either, whats misleading is people claiming the Nazis were practicing the same socialism as Bernie supporters. But even if we did pretend it wasn't called National Socialism for an actual reason (not because it was socialism in the traditional sense, but because it started as a worker's party and claimed to be a nationalistic socialist response to stuff like Marxism) they'd just throw one of the hundreds of dumb quips they come up with at us instead.


I think "misnomer" is accurate. The Nazis privatized many businesses that had been public assets in the Weimar Republic, including banks, the railway network, chemical companies, steelworks, shipbuilding, etc. Most centralized economic control related to militarization. They eliminated collective bargaining, persecuted trade unionists, froze wages and issued propaganda equating entrepreneurialism with racial advancement. They also permitted and encouraged the use of slave labor.

Not very socialist.
i wouldnt say the nazis were "socialist" in the traditional sense, so if you called them regular socialists yeah it would be a misnomer, but it wouldnt be a misnomer to call them National Socialists. i think that honest people can pretty easily make the distinction between socialism and national socialism, the exception to that rule being people who pretend otherwise to push a political agenda
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 24, 2021, 11:34:50 am
Bernie=Socialist=National Socialist Nazi is the right's version of "Trump does this, Hitler also did this, ergo Trump=Hitler"

People seem to not understand that the key part is not how two things are alike, it is more important how two things are NOT alike.
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: Mr C on May 24, 2021, 11:35:18 am
I wouldn't say its "misleading" either, whats misleading is people claiming the Nazis were practicing the same socialism as Bernie supporters. But even if we did pretend it wasn't called National Socialism for an actual reason (not because it was socialism in the traditional sense, but because it started as a worker's party and claimed to be a nationalistic socialist response to stuff like Marxism) they'd just throw one of the hundreds of dumb quips they come up with at us instead.

i wouldnt say the nazis were "socialist" in the traditional sense, so if you called them regular socialists yeah it would be a misnomer, but it wouldnt be a misnomer to call them National Socialists. i think that honest people can pretty easily make the distinction between socialism and national socialism, the exception to that rule being people who pretend otherwise to push a political agenda

The Nazis were not socialist in ANY sense.  They just took over the word.  I refer you back to Waygo0k's point about DPRK or frankly almost any country that has "Democratic" in its name being anything but.
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: 745sticky on May 25, 2021, 08:11:58 am
The Nazis were not socialist in ANY sense.  They just took over the word.  I refer you back to Waygo0k's point about DPRK or frankly almost any country that has "Democratic" in its name being anything but.

I refer you back to my point in my post you quoted but clearly didn't read
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: Renma on May 25, 2021, 09:59:09 am
My memory is hazy on the topic, but I recall from my A-level history course that Nazi Germany had an extensive welfare state. So I wouldn't say they were 'not socialist in ANY sense.'
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: fka on May 25, 2021, 10:27:51 am
The Nazis dismantled a number of Weimar-era welfare programs and retooled them to support militarization and their Social Darwinist aims. Some of these resulted in what we would now consider robust public welfare operations - free education, unemployment benefits, custodianship of orphaned children, etc., and some of them made measurable improvements to the lives of many Germans. However, everything was sublimated to militarization.

Qualification for the programs was, of course, conditional, as these were very much in the fold of social engineering. I don't know if it's a great analogy, but a modern comparison might be the community outreach programs of Hezbollah or Hamas. Do they actually help people? Yes. Do they also help to account for the organizations' popularity? Yes. Do they provide models that could be replicated elsewhere? Not very likely. Do they fit into a neat socialist / capitalist binary? No.

I think this is an interesting summary, written by an American economist in 1944:

Quote
In the six years between the Fascist victory in Germany and the outbreak of war, Nazism erected a system of production, distribution and consumption that defies classification in any of the usual categories. It was not capitalism in the traditional sense: the autonomous market mechanism so characteristic of capitalism during the last two centuries had all but disappeared. It was not State capitalism: the government disclaimed any desire to own the means of production, and in fact took steps to denationalize them. It was not socialism or communism: private property and private profit still existed. The Nazi system was, rather, a combination of some of the characteristics of capitalism and a highly planned economy. Without in any way destroying its class character, a comprehensive planning mechanism was imposed on an economy in which private property was not expropriated, in which the distribution of national income remained fundamentally unchanged, and in which private entrepreneurs retained some of their prerogatives and responsibilities in traditional capitalism. All this was done in a society dominated by a ruthless political dictatorship.

https://www.nber.org/system/files/chapters/c9476/c9476.pdf (https://www.nber.org/system/files/chapters/c9476/c9476.pdf)
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: 745sticky on May 25, 2021, 10:43:50 am
However, everything was sublimated to militarization.

That's an important point, the Nazis more or less did everything with the idea that whatever deficit they created would be offset by spoils of war and whatnot. The "socialist" part of National Socialism is more about how they took some socialist policies and twisted them for war profiteering, that plus in the early days they renamed the party that in an attempt to win over votes from Germany's left-wing (actual) socialist party(s? don't remember if there were one or multiple, its Europe so probably the latter). So I guess you could describe their "socialism" as grifting or something of the sort
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: Mr C on May 25, 2021, 05:32:44 pm
I refer you back to my point in my post you quoted but clearly didn't read

To clarify, you said the Nazis were not socialist in the "traditional" sense--I said they were not socialist in any sense.
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 25, 2021, 06:14:41 pm
It depends whether you make a case for the ethno-national-cultural component of Nazi Germany and whether that is reflected in the production undertaken and controlled. If you view Nazi Germany as an ethno-state whos raison d'etre is the German/Nordic people above all us and society is geared to uplifting their lives and the state controls the productions and systems for the betterment of the German/Nordic people, then you COULD call it socialism of a sort.

On the other hand, if you view Nazi Germany as a state that didn't take into consideration the welfare of the German people and they had no control or influence on this, and that its reason for existence is to wage war and engage in conquest, then I don't think they really qualify as socialist.

TLDR: You could make some reasonable claim that Nazi Germany was socialist, but I don't really buy it.
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: gogators! on May 26, 2021, 01:20:42 am
holy shit he still thinks trump is getting back into office

he could be a jeff jansen follower.https://www.newsweek.com/pastor-jeff-jansen-stands-belief-trump-will-come-back-power-after-election-overturned-1589025 (https://www.newsweek.com/pastor-jeff-jansen-stands-belief-trump-will-come-back-power-after-election-overturned-1589025)
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: gogators! on May 26, 2021, 01:21:25 am
What if you drive a Volkswagen?
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: 745sticky on May 26, 2021, 07:58:28 am
To clarify, you said the Nazis were not socialist in the "traditional" sense--I said they were not socialist in any sense.

Okay, well in that case, I disagree. They were socialist in the sense that their precursor was a worker's party and kept some of their policies, or at least the ones that were conducive towards their war efforts. You don't get to re-label them just because you don't like their brand of "socialism" lol



It depends whether you make a case for the ethno-national-cultural component of Nazi Germany and whether that is reflected in the production undertaken and controlled. If you view Nazi Germany as an ethno-state whos raison d'etre is the German/Nordic people above all us and society is geared to uplifting their lives and the state controls the productions and systems for the betterment of the German/Nordic people, then you COULD call it socialism of a sort.

On the other hand, if you view Nazi Germany as a state that didn't take into consideration the welfare of the German people and they had no control or influence on this, and that its reason for existence is to wage war and engage in conquest, then I don't think they really qualify as socialist.

TLDR: You could make some reasonable claim that Nazi Germany was socialist, but I don't really buy it.
I view Nazi Germany as the former. I mean obviously things worked out disastrously but Hitler made his intentions pretty clear.  Just because he fucked up and got a lot of his "golden race" (or whatever he called it) Germans killed doesn't change the intention

I will add that I'm sure the intention desperately shifted towards saving his skin or salvaging as much of the situation at any cost towards the end of the war, but overall his ideology was more or less a bastardized version of socialism with war as his method of obtaining the material/land/etc necessary to support it. it goes without saying that his definition of what constituted a German was extremely narrow, but I'd imagine that's where the National (and right-wing) bits come in.
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: Liechtenstein on May 26, 2021, 12:59:07 pm
What if you drive a Volkswagen?

The people's car
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 26, 2021, 01:00:47 pm
Folks, acknowledging the Nazis had some kind of socialism does not invalidate socialism, nor does it mean the other side "wins". Likewise, acknowledging they were also nationalist does not invalidate every nationalist movement around the globe or anything termed as "nationalist" with respect to our own domestiv politics.

You can tell who the tribalists and low-order thinkers are if they are so wound up in their "us vs. them" view that they think in such a manner. Higher-order thinkers can do something like be on the left, acknowledge the Nazis had socialist elements, and then carry on with their beliefs because they aren't dumb enough to think "Because Nazis did X, ergo you are a Nazi if you do X."
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: 745sticky on May 26, 2021, 01:07:54 pm
The people's car
still sort of sad they discontinued the beetle tbh
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: Liechtenstein on May 26, 2021, 02:15:12 pm
still sort of sad they discontinued the beetle tbh

It all went south, literally and figuratively, when they moved production to Brazil. Then the new ones just seemed to lack the grooviness of the original bugs.
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 26, 2021, 05:59:14 pm
It all went south, literally and figuratively, when they moved production to Brazil. Then the new ones just seemed to lack the grooviness of the original bugs.
They all turned into this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1l6KfrAFJw
Title: Re: Do your politics lean left or right?
Post by: gogators! on May 27, 2021, 06:24:06 am
It all went south, literally and figuratively, when they moved production to Brazil. Then the new ones just seemed to lack the grooviness of the original bugs.
I'm looking forward to the EV microbus.