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All about South Korea => Life in Korea => Topic started by: Aristocrat on November 30, 2020, 11:18:57 am

Title: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Aristocrat on November 30, 2020, 11:18:57 am
Post a question or quote a person's post with any answer you might have.

Question
Why do so many cars have heavily tinted windows? Do they think it'll prevent the skin from darkening?

Question
Why do schools open for 2 weeks in early February? I've asked and never got a universal/straight answer. A few changes to the system and some proper scheduling could easily manage an uninterrupted holiday period.

Question
Why do people spit? I've heard numerous reasons (it helps prevent cancer while smoking etc.) but never one universal theory. I'm guessing nobody really knows and Korean teenagers simply do it to emulate adults.

Question
Why does every school need a principal and vice principal? One of my elementary schools has a total of 40 students and I've heard of ones with fewer. Do we really need a VP and principal to run such a small school?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: oglop on November 30, 2020, 11:29:19 am
why do the old people here ALWAYS push you in the back to get off the subway when EVERYONE IS ALREADY getting off, only to then potter slowly to the escalator and stand still? what's gooing on there?

why do old korean men always seem to gravitate into my path when the pavement is 100% empty, only to then look offended when they get slightly shoulder checked?

if i go to the park for the afternoon, why does a family always seem to set up camp RIGHT NEXT TO me, despite the whole area being empty?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: CO2 on November 30, 2020, 11:33:02 am
why do the old people here ALWAYS push you in the back to get off the subway when EVERYONE IS ALREADY getting off, only to then potter slowly to the escalator and stand still? what's gooing on there?

why do old korean men always seem to gravitate into my path when the pavement is 100% empty, only to then look offended when they get slightly shoulder checked?

if i go to the park for the afternoon, why does a family always seem to set up camp RIGHT NEXT TO me, despite the whole area being empty?

In B4

Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on November 30, 2020, 11:40:54 am
Question
Why do people spit? I've heard numerous reasons (it helps prevent cancer while smoking etc.) but never one universal theory. I'm guessing nobody really knows and Korean teenagers simply do it to emulate adults.
I can't answer the other two, though the implication that stupidity is the cause of the second is probably not the answer.

As for spitting, have you ever smoked? Inhaled a giant breath of fresh cow dung? Some other foul taste? Quite simply your body's reflex is to spit out something it perceives as toxic. In this case, it's perception is straight on.

Also, one's mouth may produce excess saliva when smoking. That saliva can go one of two places- A) Down your esophagus, which would mean the ingestion of said toxins or B) Expectoration of the saliva and toxins.

Most of the complaints I see about spitting are more about their own personal disgust rather than any rational standard. These same people who bitch and moan about spitting have no problem with people walking their dog and having it piss and shit everywhere. This is before we get to the question of whether anyone thought a street was clean to begin with. Nevermind pigeon shit, vehicle fluids, shit on the bottom of one's shoe, rotting fruit from gingkos, and 1000 other things. And as a vector for disease? Yeah it's clearly why Korea has one of the worst disease problems right now and the West is fine.

I always said the various claims about Korea and disease were massively overblown. Well, we've gotten to see the results. If various Korean practices were indeed as dangerous as people claimed and various western etiquette practices were as effective as people claimed, then we should have seen completely different results over the last 11 months. At the time I was mocked. Well, the results are in. Things people claimed would result in massive spreads, turned out not to be the case and the efficacy of flimsily covering your mouth or not spitting hasn't been borne out.

But of course, I should shut up and not speak up in threads or disagree because I'm just reflexively disagreeing. Not pointing out holes in flawed claims.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on November 30, 2020, 11:47:06 am
I think it would be good if while asking these questions, people attempt to legitimately come up with a non-insulting explanation as part of their question. You might be able to answer your own question!
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on November 30, 2020, 11:52:14 am
why do the old people here ALWAYS push you in the back to get off the subway when EVERYONE IS ALREADY getting off, only to then potter slowly to the escalator and stand still? what's gooing on there?

why do old korean men always seem to gravitate into my path when the pavement is 100% empty, only to then look offended when they get slightly shoulder checked?

if i go to the park for the afternoon, why does a family always seem to set up camp RIGHT NEXT TO me, despite the whole area being empty?
1) Probably from earlier times with different conditions where people would be crammed into trains or other vehicles. When we get old we'll probably do some irking things too.

2) Old people have decreased coordination in general. And yes, can be ornery and rude.

3) Probably think you're the start of the designated camping space and take the next spot in the row. That and they don't consider it some invasion of space.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: CO2 on November 30, 2020, 11:55:24 am
Why do teachers whom I've never talked to before come into the office and ask me where the teachers are? Yes, Ms Jeong, sits across from me in this office.

(This was all in Korean)

 :-* Where is Jeong teacher.

 :police: She's usually in the English room.

2 mins later

 :-* She's not there. Where is she?

 :police: Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhh

 :-* I'm on the second floor [office is on the third]  and I need her to sign this paper.

 :police: Well, okay, but I don't know where she is. Sorry.

 :-* UGH. *walks away*

Like, does she think I keep track on where everyone is? I got shit to do.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: oglop on November 30, 2020, 12:00:36 pm
1) Probably from earlier times with different conditions where people would be crammed into trains or other vehicles. When we get old we'll probably do some irking things too.

2) Old people have decreased coordination in general. And yes, can be ornery and rude.

3) Probably think you're the start of the designated camping space and take the next spot in the row. That and they don't consider it some invasion of space.
number 1 makes sense, but still insanely irritating

number2 - definitely not a lack of coordination. just rudeless or trying to show how....macho they are?

you're probably right about number 3. i guess i dont go camping here really, but, yeah, they do all camp next to each other. however, these families always have kids loud running around. i also think they lack common sense


Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Aristocrat on November 30, 2020, 12:04:02 pm
I can't answer the other two, though the implication that stupidity is the cause of the second is probably not the answer.

As for spitting, have you ever smoked? Inhaled a giant breath of fresh cow dung? Some other foul taste? Quite simply your body's reflex is to spit out something it perceives as toxic. In this case, it's perception is straight on.

Also, one's mouth may produce excess saliva when smoking. That saliva can go one of two places- A) Down your esophagus, which would mean the ingestion of said toxins or B) Expectoration of the saliva and toxins.

From the age of 15 to 25 as did many of my friends. Before I quit, I smoked up to a full packet of 20s a day (Stuyvesant or Camel filter). Never did I feel the need to spit. Only one of my friends felt the need to spit and he only did so, while smoking, never while not smoking. This is why I've always found the smoking theory to be complete BS; you see guys hocking back what sounds like their entire spleen and hocking it up, in the street and with no cigarette in hand.

"Toxins"? Once you've inhaled the smoke into your lungs, the ship's already sailed. Spitting isn't going to do a damn thing to prevent anything.

You have smokers all over the world. Why is it that mainly Korean and Chinese smokers are the ones spitting?

Most of the complaints I see about spitting are more about their own personal disgust rather than any rational standard. These same people who bitch and moan about spitting have no problem with people walking their dog and having it piss and shit everywhere.

I find that disgusting too, but that still doesn't explain the spitting. Thanks for your input though.


[/quote]
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on November 30, 2020, 12:04:59 pm
Why do people try to get onto a full subway train before anyone has had a chance to get off?

Why do people rush into an elevator before people can get out?

BTW, this is not limited to Korea, happened to me in China too.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: 303lmc on November 30, 2020, 12:05:16 pm
why do they tell you how expensive air con and heat are, then leave the door open when you have it on? I understand the kids not closing doors, but the adults??
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: tylerthegloob on November 30, 2020, 12:12:30 pm
why does cool messenger show me ads?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: dippedinblush on November 30, 2020, 01:59:41 pm
Why can I no longer get hard shell tacos in Korea (Old El Paso)????  I used to be able to order them all the time online a couple years back.  I love me some tacos!  :cry:
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on November 30, 2020, 02:22:33 pm
From the age of 15 to 25 as did many of my friends. Before I quit, I smoked up to a full packet of 20s a day (Stuyvesant or Camel filter). Never did I feel the need to spit. Only one of my friends felt the need to spit and he only did so, while smoking, never while not smoking.
Well, as is the case with many things, some people have different reactions to chemical substances. I imagine some people react differently for biological reasons.

 
Quote
This is why I've always found the smoking theory to be complete BS; you see guys hocking back what sounds like their entire spleen and hocking it up, in the street and with no cigarette in hand.
They might have finished. Maybe they got a whiff of something else. Maybe they like spitting. I don't know. i"m sure there's a bunch of different reasons.

Quote
Toxins"? Once you've inhaled the smoke into your lungs, the ship's already sailed. Spitting isn't going to do a damn thing to prevent anything.
I didn't say it was effective, just reflexive.

number2 - definitely not a lack of coordination. just rudeless or trying to show how....macho they are?
Depends on the old people. The more spry 50-70 year olds, probably. Above 70 and the shuffling kind, I think age is a valid reason.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Don Hobak on November 30, 2020, 02:27:55 pm
Why can I no longer get hard shell tacos in Korea (Old El Paso)????  I used to be able to order them all the time online a couple years back.  I love me some tacos!  :cry:

Because you’re the only one who likes them  :P

They’re structurally unsound, and even if you manage to get them to hold up, any deviation from holding them parallel and they’ll leak all the meat and sauce juices that have sunk to the bottom.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Korea, why don’t you love me? Will I ever be enough for you?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: dippedinblush on November 30, 2020, 02:42:11 pm
I can not believe I'm the only one who likes hard tacos......

Don Hobak grrrrrrrrr

Also the last line in your post....Meant for me? 
Go suck it you hobgoblin!
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: JNM on November 30, 2020, 11:40:58 pm
...I've asked and never got a universal/straight answer. ...

The reason for THAT is an aversion to saying, “I don’t know,” which leads to people making up stuff. When those authority do it, it is accepted and propagated as true.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: thunderlips on December 01, 2020, 05:31:09 am
I can not believe I'm the only one who likes hard tacos......

Don Hobak grrrrrrrrr

Also the last line in your post....Meant for me? 
Go suck it you hobgoblin!

https://m.coupang.com/nm/search?q=Taco+shell
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: VanIslander on December 01, 2020, 07:21:42 am
Never saw a hard-shell taco in Mexico.

It must be an American thing. Like Chinese fortune cookies.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: CO2 on December 01, 2020, 07:47:48 am

Like Chinese fortune cookies.
They have those in Incheon Chinatown. I bought a couple and then realised that they'd be in Korean. They were. hahaha, lucky for me I had my Kor buddy, who came with me, translate it.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: thunderlips on December 01, 2020, 07:50:39 am
Never saw a hard-shell taco in Mexico.

It must be an American thing. Like Chinese fortune cookies.

No spaghetti and meatballs in Italy too. So I’ve heard
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: OnNut81 on December 01, 2020, 09:16:38 am
I can not believe I'm the only one who likes hard tacos......

Don Hobak grrrrrrrrr

Also the last line in your post....Meant for me? 
Go suck it you hobgoblin!

I love hard shell tacos.  I've never been to Mexico and for most of my life the Old El Paso Taco kits with their sauce was my definition of a taco.  Costco used to carry them years ago and so did Carrefour when it was around.  Some of the kits had the little taco stands to help out if you were lucky.  Then Cotsco stopped carrying them and Carrefour flew the coop.  I miss Americanized Taco night. 

Why have Old El Paso taco kits disappeared when taco places have been sprouting up everywhere?  I should be able to pick them up at Emart. 
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Chinguetti on December 01, 2020, 10:24:31 am
Why do so many of the gym bros here practically sit on their partners' faces whenever they're spotting them? Are they trying to micro-manage their breathing with their ball sacks and buttholes?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: 745sticky on December 01, 2020, 10:53:05 am
You just don't understand bro culture  :cry:
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: CO2 on December 01, 2020, 10:55:24 am
Why do so many of the gym bros here practically sit on their partners' faces whenever they're spotting them? Are they trying to micro-manage their breathing with their ball sacks and buttholes?
With American football not really being a thing here, this is the only way they can get sacked.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: CO4 on December 08, 2020, 09:06:24 am
What does this couple do for work? What are they like?

They're married and probably late 30s, early 40s.
 Sometimes with a baby.  She's wearing a Moncler coat and looks miserable.  He's wearing a full tracksuit and carrying a clutch bag.  I've seen carbon copies of this kind of couple over and over again.  Are they rich or what? What kind of job do you think?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: SPQR on December 08, 2020, 01:34:25 pm
I can not believe I'm the only one who likes hard tacos......

Don Hobak grrrrrrrrr

Also the last line in your post....Meant for me? 
Go suck it you hobgoblin!

I like tacos.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Kyndo on December 08, 2020, 02:23:23 pm
Why do so many cars have heavily tinted windows? Do they think it'll prevent the skin from darkening?
Possibly.
I think it's also perceived to be an indicator of wealth: limos, fancy sports cars, government cars etc all have tinted windows.
It affords the occupants privacy: with enough tint, you can pick your nose in peace at the intersection.
Related to privacy would be anonymity: it's easier to drive aggressively when people can't see who the $%^& is that just cut them off, turned on their blinkers, slammed on the brakes, and turned off the engine. Also, I heard from somebody that making eye contact with another driver at an intersection is like giving away right of way here in Korea lol.

Question
Why do schools open for 2 weeks in early February? I've asked and never got a universal/straight answer. A few changes to the system and some proper scheduling could easily manage an uninterrupted holiday period.
One answer I got was that this extra time was largely for the homeroom teachers to collate grades, and write references for highschool students. At this point, all of their grades will have come in, and the teachers can use that school period to focus on paper work and wrapping up the school year.



Question
Why do people spit? I've heard numerous reasons (it helps prevent cancer while smoking etc.) but never one universal theory. I'm guessing nobody really knows and Korean teenagers simply do it to emulate adults.
Yeah, it's pretty disgusting, unhygienic, and horribly anti-social. Back home it's mostly the rebellious crowd who does it (teenagers, mostly), so I'm guessing it has some macho appeal. Certainly don't see those few Korean women who smoke puddling saliva around their shoes!

Why does every school need a principal and vice principal? One of my elementary schools has a total of 40 students and I've heard of ones with fewer. Do we really need a VP and principal to run such a small school?
Probably a tradition thing. It's how it's always been done, so we should continue to do it today. Governmental positions are very prone to this, I've noticed (as are a lot of governmental practices in general).
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: nightninja on December 08, 2020, 03:51:28 pm
Why is it that showing emotion is not ok? Why is there not much sex ed here and why is there so little emotional intelligence?

I get saving face but....
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: MayorHaggar on December 08, 2020, 03:59:47 pm
In some of James Clavell's books he writes about how Chinese people think there's a dragon god or something in their lungs, and they have to spit to get it out. Wouldn't surprise me if he was just making up crap though.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 08, 2020, 04:15:05 pm
Why is it that showing emotion is not ok?
Just wait a few threads and you'll see someone ranting about how Koreans show emotions that we'd keep under control or whatever.

Quote
Why is there not much sex ed here
Students learn very little from sex ed beyond anatomy and "these diseases exist, wear a condom", which pretty much any kid knows/can find out if they aren't in an ultra-strict household. If someone isn't wearing a condom it's not because they don't know that condoms can prevent pregnancy and disease, it's because sex feels better without one and they've tricked whoever they're hooking up with into letting them f___ without wearing one. Thinking people don't know what condoms are for or what they do is on the level of people who ask "Why are you smoking? Don't you know it causes cancer?" As though people don't know.

Young adults will learn about sex the same way they have for decades- From their friends and on the street.

Quote
why is there so little emotional intelligence
Based on the local wayg population, I can say that lack of emotional intelligence is pretty evenly distributed across cultures.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: oglop on December 08, 2020, 04:43:00 pm
why have school at all if you can just get your education from your friends or on the street?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: JNM on December 08, 2020, 04:44:52 pm
why have school at all if you can just get your education from your friends or on the street?

Many do, but the consensus is that it is not the preferred method.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 08, 2020, 06:38:25 pm
why have school at all if you can just get your education from your friends or on the street?
State-sanctioned baby-sitting with activities+skills for future industrial/commercial work and military service. That and a few networking and educational opportunities to get some promising minds who aren't in private schools.

I'd ask everyone here, where did YOU learn about sex? I doubt out of 100 people here you would get 1 that would answer "Sex Ed class".

Let's be real- Sex Ed class exists so parents can pretend that their kids are getting taught the facts of life from a "reputable source" and so they can outsource that awkward talk to someone else. It's one of the ultimate delusions that society has engaged in. 

Seriously, sex ed should be at 1st grade- "Okay kids if someone wants to see or touch your private parts, call the police/teacher." At 5th grade it should be "Okay kids, these are the Prostate and the Fallopian Tubes" and after that there's little more that you can do. Pretending that sex ed is good for anything more than that is completely divorced from reality. Get a clue folks.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: oglop on December 08, 2020, 06:49:03 pm
i learnt a lot actually. definitely one of the most memorable things i learnt at school (for obvious reasons).

ah, but i forgot. because DM has had a certain experience with something, everyone else's experiences are wrong. classic
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 08, 2020, 07:53:36 pm
i learnt a lot actually. definitely one of the most memorable things i learnt at school (for obvious reasons).

ah, but i forgot. because DM has had a certain experience with something, everyone else's experiences are wrong. classic
What exactly did you learn? I mean, sure anatomy or like a few different diseases. (Like I knew about the clap and AIDS, but we get to learn about Chlamydia!).

Like what are we talking about here? By the time sex ed rolled around we all knew the, uh, ins and outs.

Also, how old are you? Aren't you one of the old farts here who grew up pre-internet? Times are different.

Or are you the opposite- One of the youngins who got taught sex ed in Kindergarten, complete with some propaganda trying to get you to be transgender at Age 5 or whatever? I guess in that case, you'd be right that Sex Ed would be the first time and place.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: nightninja on December 08, 2020, 07:58:04 pm
I at least learned how pregnancy works....all the steps that take place, the different phases etc
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: oglop on December 08, 2020, 08:01:29 pm
once in year 6, then again in secondary school in year 7. true, it was before i had internet, so i pretty much learnt everything, minus knowing what boobs looked it

anyway, i'm not sure that just because there's internet now, it solves everything. i've met quite a few korean adults (past gfs, old students/friends, even my own wife actually) who seemed to have weird misconceptions or ignorance about things sexually-related, stds, etc. and that's stuff we definitely learnt at school
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: CO2 on December 08, 2020, 08:07:43 pm
We learned the biology of baby production when I was 8 or 9? Can't remember. I was the only student brave enough to read the book in class.

We got more in grade 7. Talking about STDS and how to have safe sex.

We had one more in grade 10 gym class which was much more open and question/answer led.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: nightninja on December 08, 2020, 08:10:20 pm
My husband may not be the best example, but he believed (after talking to a dr about it) that the HPV vaccine "protects you from all damage from sex." so he got the vaccine.....
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: oglop on December 08, 2020, 08:16:19 pm
actually, thinking about it, i'd argue because of internet/porn, it's better to teach sex-ed at school than ever before. at least how the porn you watch is not (probably) a representation of normal sex etc

although we all know porn is banned here so i guess nobody has ever seen porn in this country, right?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: nightninja on December 08, 2020, 08:18:11 pm
actually, thinking about it, i'd argue because of internet/porn, it's better to teach sex-ed at school than ever before. at least how the porn you watch is not (probably) a representation of normal sex etc

although we all know porn is banned here so i guess nobody has ever seen porn in this country, right?

lol, illegal? It's available on the TV movie channel for free......even young kids could figure out how to turn it on
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Don Hobak on December 08, 2020, 08:18:59 pm
My husband may not be the best example, but he believed (after talking to a dr about it) that the HPV vaccine "protects you from all damage from sex." so he got the vaccine.....

Sounds better than “I don’t want to” when explaining away condom non-usage.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Don Hobak on December 08, 2020, 08:24:31 pm
although we all know porn is banned here so i guess nobody has ever seen porn in this country, right?

Not unless you have a hip, cosmopolitan urologist.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: oglop on December 09, 2020, 08:39:19 am
lol, illegal? It's available on the TV movie channel for free......even young kids could figure out how to turn it on
no way. i don't believe it
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: CO2 on December 09, 2020, 08:41:39 am
The stuff on TV is pretty mild here. You can't show penises or vaginas. So............... yeah. If you're learning from that you'll just frottage your partner like an insane person.  hahahaha
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: nightninja on December 09, 2020, 11:49:22 am
no way. i don't believe it

Sorry, can't tell if it's sarcasm but yeah...the movie channels for both lg and kt had free movies each month and one of them was always an adult movie
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 09, 2020, 12:48:40 pm
Sounds better than “I don’t want to” when explaining away condom non-usage.
It could well be ignorance, but not understanding condoms is one of those things you'd have to be born under a rock not to get. I think ol hubby up to no good is a far more plausible explanation, especially considering his track record.

It's not like there's zero sex ed in Korean schools or a lack of info out there. And him claiming a doctor gave him such advice is dubious. However there is a track record of the guy being a manipulative controlling sack of shit and some lie about STD stuff seems in character.

If my SO ever told me such a convoluted tale I'd get myself screened for STDs, hire a PI and call my lawyer.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: tylerthegloob on December 09, 2020, 12:52:06 pm
"sex ed is not important" is my personal least favorite DM take
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: D.L.Orean on December 09, 2020, 12:59:47 pm
"sex ed is not important" is my personal least favorite DM take

Of all his takes, this seems like one of the stranger ones
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: 745sticky on December 09, 2020, 01:10:24 pm
"sex ed is not important" is my personal least favorite DM take

i suppose contrarianism can only get you so far
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: nightninja on December 09, 2020, 01:23:22 pm
It could well be ignorance, but not understanding condoms is one of those things you'd have to be born under a rock not to get. I think ol hubby up to no good is a far more plausible explanation, especially considering his track record.

It's not like there's zero sex ed in Korean schools or a lack of info out there. And him claiming a doctor gave him such advice is dubious. However there is a track record of the guy being a manipulative controlling sack of shit and some lie about STD stuff seems in character.

If my SO ever told me such a convoluted tale I'd get myself screened for STDs, hire a PI and call my lawyer.

Although it does seem in character, I really don't think he understood........I was once at a dr app and he happened to be there and the dr mentioned in both korean and English that it wasn't my fault, nor was there anything to be done about such a situation, it would have happened prior to birth, but he still thought that it was because I did/ didn't do something and that I could change it....I don't know that I believe that particular dr about the situation anyway because no other dr made any mention that it could exist, but that's neither here nor there......
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 09, 2020, 01:24:50 pm
"sex ed is not important" is my personal least favorite DM take
More like functionally irrelevant. Aside from basic anatomy and some minimal disease awareness, its actual impact on outcomes is dubious at best. Sure it IS better than nothing, but the amount of emphasis placed on it vs. the impact it has on people's decisions is way out of whack. Both the right and left think Sex Ed is this big powerful thing and it isn't.  Media, internet and peers are wayyyyy more influential.

The left makes the classic mistake of- "If people just had more education, they'd think and behave a certain way!" while the right thinks that the school teaching 6 year olds what an ovary is will somehow turn them into sex-crazed perverts. The reason someone doesn't want to f*ck with a condom on isn't because they had bad sex ed class in high school or no sex ed in elementary school. It's because they don't give a f at the moment and it feels better without one. It's because they're f*ing horny. It's because they watch porn and sex scenes in movies and no one is wearing condoms. "Ohh gee, if we just had an extra bunch of sex ed classes and explained condoms for the 20th time and handed out more cucumbers for them to handle, this would have all been prevented!" is the dumbest take imaginable.

I mean look at the near-constant use of condoms amongst the gay population, clearly sex ed works.  :rolleyes:

In most cases, it is safe to assume ignorance instead of malice or whatever, not with sex. People are going to do what they do.

I mean, you do realize that a certain % of kids just go complete zombie and try to mentally block sex ed, right? They find the class extremely awkward and uncomfortable for whatever reason. Same as any other class. A certain % will always shut down.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 09, 2020, 01:29:43 pm
Although it does seem in character, I really don't think he understood........I was once at a dr app and he happened to be there and the dr mentioned in both korean and English that it wasn't my fault, nor was there anything to be done about such a situation, it would have happened prior to birth, but he still thought that it was because I did/ didn't do something and that I could change it....I don't know that I believe that particular dr about the situation anyway because no other dr made any mention that it could exist, but that's neither here nor there......
Well I don;t know your husband, but I do know manipulative pieces of shit, and I know that in that situation they'll take anything and try to twist it against someone, regardless of what science or professionals say. It's just a tool for them to emotionally rope-a-dope people with.

Anyways, glad you're leaving him. Stay strong.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: tylerthegloob on December 09, 2020, 01:36:14 pm
I mean, you do realize that a certain % of kids just go complete zombie and try to mentally block sex ed, right? They find the class extremely awkward and uncomfortable for whatever reason. Same as any other class. A certain % will always shut down.
yes lets stop teaching all the classes because a certain % will shut down. hwat does this part have to do with anything at all? and all i got from the rest of your post is that your sex ed classes were really bad
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: 745sticky on December 09, 2020, 01:43:32 pm
The left makes the classic mistake of- "If people just had more education, they'd think and behave a certain way!" while the right thinks that the school teaching 6 year olds what an ovary is will somehow turn them into sex-crazed perverts.

I don't think anyone in this thread is approaching sex ed through this weird political lens you've come up with, we're all (mostly) normal here.

 
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: nightninja on December 09, 2020, 01:44:09 pm

I guess what I meant in my original question/statement was that I feel people know little about how pregnancy works specifically (guess I could have been more specific) and of course STDs....yeah it seems pointless because people do learn a lot from others rather than from a school desk and teacher and yeah it's awkward .....and of course in the moment it would seem that most throw that out the window anyway, but I just want to do a facepalm when I hear people incorrectly describing how pregnancy happens or getting angry when their expectation of this or that timeline for it doesn't work out........ also personally like I don't want to be asked why I'm so tired all the time (especially around that time) and oh but it should only be this long and blah blah, especially coming from men.....but each person is different and it's not easy for others to really compare one woman to another on these matters, but I hear it all the time. .....oh, look at so and so they got pregnant so quickly and so did so and so....so why haven't you?

Like I mentioned somewhere else.....personally I'm not jealous or waiting for pregnancy because it's not something I want right now, but I really hate all the comparisons and misinformation I hear.....

Just today my coteacher asked if I was on birth control............ ....like wtf is that and why is it your business?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 09, 2020, 01:52:41 pm
yes lets stop teaching all the classes because a certain % will shut down. hwat does this part have to do with anything at all? and all i got from the rest of your post is that your sex ed classes were really bad
Not bad, just ineffective relative to the amount of attention, resources, and expectations of success placed on them. They should be little more than the equivalent of a once-a-year class you do at a workplace, strictly for liability purposes so that when your employees do f up, you can absolve yourself of liability, which is pretty much what they are. They're a way for parents to outsource their own parenting to the schools and then when their kids f up, they can lie to themselves and either blame the school or say "we did everything". They're a way for parents who are watching their kid growing up and jacking off into his socks that mom washes or daughter going down the path of rebellion and for them to emotionally cope with the whole thing and pretend what is really happening isn't happening and won't happen to them.

If it was real education it would at least try to acknowledge where kids are getting most of their information and what is actually influencing them and be realistic about what is going on. But it isn't. It's at best a well-intentioned fail with a few redeeming elements. At worst, it's a political football that is glorified theater. It's just a big fake show for appearances.

As far as I see it, sex ed should be cut down to essentially "Reproductive Cycle+Sexually Transmitted Diseases in Humans+Kids Don't Get Snatched" and left at that and not treated as a big deal. Any expectations beyond some really basic understanding of those concepts are ridiculous. Expecting class to ensure that kids will practice safe sex or whatever is beyond its purview.

But parents and teachers don't want that. They want their comfortable lie. You don't believe me? Some of you are parents. Go to a PTA meeting and talk real about sex and what kids are up to. See what kind of reaction you get. An entire room of people in fing denial about what is going on. You think much legitimate education is coming out of that?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: D.L.Orean on December 09, 2020, 01:57:31 pm
Not bad, just ineffective relative to the amount of attention, resources, and expectations of success placed on them. They should be little more than the equivalent of a once-a-year class you do at a workplace, strictly for liability purposes so that when your employees do f up, you can absolve yourself of liability, which is pretty much what they are. They're a way for parents to outsource their own parenting to the schools and then when their kids f up, they can lie to themselves and either blame the school or say "we did everything". They're a way for parents who are watching their kid growing up and jacking off into his socks that mom washes or daughter going down the path of rebellion and for them to emotionally cope with the whole thing and pretend what is really happening isn't happening and won't happen to them.

If it was real education it would at least try to acknowledge where kids are getting most of their information and what is actually influencing them and be realistic about what is going on. But it isn't. It's at best a well-intentioned fail with a few redeeming elements. At worst, it's a political football that is glorified theater. It's just a big fake show for appearances.

As far as I see it, sex ed should be cut down to essentially "Reproductive Cycle+Sexually Transmitted Diseases in Humans+Kids Don't Get Snatched" and left at that and not treated as a big deal. Any expectations beyond some really basic understanding of those concepts are ridiculous. Expecting class to ensure that kids will practice safe sex or whatever is beyond its purview.

But parents and teachers don't want that. They want their comfortable lie. You don't believe me? Some of you are parents. Go to a PTA meeting and talk real about sex and what kids are up to. See what kind of reaction you get. An entire room of people in fing denial about what is going on. You think much legitimate education is coming out of that?

I'd like to hear more about this. The adventures of DMart.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Don Hobak on December 09, 2020, 02:07:19 pm
This is both what DMart’s sex ed teacher looked like, and what DMart himself looks like at PTA meetings, which is when he stops being polite, and starts getting Real.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6f/17/e7/6f17e7a845a618cfc15a9de085a5abf4.png)
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 09, 2020, 02:33:25 pm
I'd like to hear more about this. The adventures of DMart.
You know it's true. Sex Ed these days is one big clusterf*ck of denial and outsourcing of responsibility.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: D.L.Orean on December 09, 2020, 03:12:11 pm
You know it's true. Sex Ed these days is one big clusterf*ck of denial and outsourcing of responsibility.

I was more interested in hearing the details of the time you talked sex at a PTA meeting
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 09, 2020, 05:34:54 pm
I was more interested in hearing the details of the time you talked sex at a PTA meeting
Huh? I was talking about a hypothetical.

How do you think it would go down if anyone tried for a moment to be realistic and say how things really are? Parents have a great track record there? Any sign that they aren't completely in denial?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: D.L.Orean on December 09, 2020, 06:31:28 pm
Huh? I was talking about a hypothetical.

How do you think it would go down if anyone tried for a moment to be realistic and say how things really are? Parents have a great track record there? Any sign that they aren't completely in denial?

I misunderstood. It was an oddly specific example. And you spoke with such authority. I just thought you were speaking from personal experience. It would be a good story, I'm sure. You should try it and get back to this thread with the details. No doubt it would be very entertaining.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on December 10, 2020, 08:12:50 am
This isn't Korea specific, I have observed this in all the countries I have been to in Asia. Why do people stand at the entrance to an escalator/stairs and answer a message on their phones blocking access to said places?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Kyndo on December 10, 2020, 11:24:44 am
You know it's true. Sex Ed these days is one big clusterf*ck of denial and outsourcing of responsibility.

This is true not just for students but also with us foreign teachers, unfortunately.

I went to one of the universities in my area for one of those sexual harassment seminars (for moral support: a friend of mine was doing a demonstration presentation).
The idea is that these seminars run for about 40-45 minutes with the remaining 15 taken up by Q&As, and everybody leaves together for some chimaek afterwards and calls it a tuesday night.

   BUT... whenever these kind of seminars happen, there are always 4 or 5 teachers (usually male and somewhat older) who get offended by the idea that others may not hold them in the super high esteem that they clearly hold themselves. They go on and on and on and on about clarifications on what does and does not count as harrasment, to the point where their hypothetical situations sound a lot like the crap we sometimes see here on waygook. I'm talking about L'Hom Strom levels of strawmen here.

   Anyway, the presenters (almost always reasonably young women) get completely derailed explaining stupid minutiae to a bunch of belligerent good ol' boys for half an hour while every other person in the room stares off into the distance wishing that they would just shut up already so the meeting could finish.

So, yeah, lots of denial and outsourcing of responsibility at SexHarEd as well.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: CO2 on December 10, 2020, 12:22:54 pm
Obligatory "Remember this? WTH were they thinking?"

https://www.waygook.org/index.php?topic=95753.20
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: 745sticky on December 10, 2020, 12:31:26 pm
Obligatory "Remember this? WTH were they thinking?"

https://www.waygook.org/index.php?topic=95753.20

What the **** is this.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 10, 2020, 02:46:29 pm
I misunderstood. It was an oddly specific example. And you spoke with such authority. I just thought you were speaking from personal experience. It would be a good story, I'm sure. You should try it and get back to this thread with the details. No doubt it would be very entertaining.
Ever attend a PTA/school board meeting? Oh my goodness the level of delusion and irrationality is off the charts, both from the school and the administration and from parents.

Anyways, sex ed is about as effective as DARE. Yes, there can be some marginal benefit, but the reason drugs fall into or out of fashion (or activities like smoking/drinking and driving) is because of peers, media, and other factors to a much greater extent. I guess if you want to count a 30 second ad on TV as "sex ed" then you can say it is effective, because those ads on TV about condoms or drinking and driving or smoking are way more effective than some class that kids are just trying to sit through as some adult lectures them yet again on what and what not to do.

Believing sex ed is effective means believing DARE is effective at preventing kids from smoking that evil Mari-Ju-ana, the gateway drug that will make them shoot themselves or be homeless.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: D.L.Orean on December 10, 2020, 02:52:29 pm
Ever attend a PTA/school board meeting? Oh my goodness the level of delusion and irrationality is off the charts, both from the school and the administration and from parents.

Anyways, sex ed is about as effective as DARE. Yes, there can be some marginal benefit, but the reason drugs fall into or out of fashion (or activities like smoking/drinking and driving) is because of peers, media, and other factors to a much greater extent. I guess if you want to count a 30 second ad on TV as "sex ed" then you can say it is effective, because those ads on TV about condoms or drinking and driving or smoking are way more effective than some class that kids are just trying to sit through as some adult lectures them yet again on what and what not to do.

Believing sex ed is effective means believing DARE is effective at preventing kids from smoking that evil Mari-Ju-ana, the gateway drug that will make them shoot themselves or be homeless.

Have you? I want to hear more about these meetings. Set the scene for us.

Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Kyndo on December 10, 2020, 03:23:27 pm
Ever attend a PTA/school board meeting? Oh my goodness the level of delusion and irrationality is off the charts, both from the school and the administration and from parents.

Anyways, sex ed is about as effective as DARE. Yes, there can be some marginal benefit, but the reason drugs fall into or out of fashion (or activities like smoking/drinking and driving) is because of peers, media, and other factors to a much greater extent. I guess if you want to count a 30 second ad on TV as "sex ed" then you can say it is effective, because those ads on TV about condoms or drinking and driving or smoking are way more effective than some class that kids are just trying to sit through as some adult lectures them yet again on what and what not to do.
Believing sex ed is effective means believing DARE is effective at preventing kids from smoking that evil Mari-Ju-ana, the gateway drug that will make them shoot themselves or be homeless.
I'm not certain how to consider your arguments because you haven't told us what you mean by "effective".

Effective at reducing teenage incidences of sex? At reducing transmission of STIs? Reducing unwanted pregnancies among teenagers? Not looking like a total noob the first time you get it on? What?

There's a lot of hard data on this general topic and I'm more than eager to sprinkle it all over this thread like confetti at a shotgun wedding, but you gotta tell me what data you're looking for (or not looking for, possibly)!
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Don Hobak on December 10, 2020, 03:26:27 pm
There's a lot of hard data on this general topic and I'm more than eager to sprinkle it all over this thread like confetti at a shotgun wedding, but you gotta tell me what data you're looking for (or not looking for, possibly)!
 :smiley:

Pun excused  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: CO2 on December 10, 2020, 03:26:45 pm
There's a lot of hard data on this general topic and I'm more than eager to sprinkle it all over this thread like confetti at a shotgun wedding, but you gotta tell me what data you're looking for

Marty has soft data, but it becomes hard when you provoke him.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Don Hobak on December 10, 2020, 03:27:42 pm
Marty has soft data, but it becomes hard when you provoke him.

No pun to see here   :lipsrsealed:
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: CO2 on December 10, 2020, 03:28:39 pm
No pun to see here

*See here, no fun!
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: oglop on December 10, 2020, 03:32:32 pm
Obligatory "Remember this? WTH were they thinking?"

https://www.waygook.org/index.php?topic=95753.20
knew it was gonna be this thread! ha
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 10, 2020, 07:08:15 pm
Have you? I want to hear more about these meetings. Set the scene for us.
My mom was a public school teacher back home. They would hold many of these meetings in the school library. My mom would sometimes be there in attendance, other times doing work while those meetings were going on. I'd catch the bus to her work from ages 6-12. Even at that young age, as I played Pax Imperia or whatever on the old Macs there, I knew what these people were saying was a load of shit. What they thought us kids thought and what we actually thought were light years apart.

Just look at parents everywhere. A massive collection of naivety and denial.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Don Hobak on December 10, 2020, 07:27:54 pm
Just look at parents everywhere. A massive collection of naivety and denial.
:blank:


Might be true, but only in societies where “parenting” is the dominant form of child-rearing.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: obwannabe on December 11, 2020, 01:13:00 am
This isn't Korea specific, I have observed this in all the countries I have been to in Asia. Why do people stand at the entrance to an escalator/stairs and answer a message on their phones blocking access to said places?

Funny you should ask that. I've also noticed this behavior in multiple asian countries as well....but each time the guilty party was a Korean/Koreans. No joke.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: 745sticky on December 11, 2020, 07:46:30 am
What they thought us kids thought and what we actually thought were light years apart.

I mean yeah, that's always going to be the case. Especially when you consider that recent generations grew up with the internet while our older relatives didn't
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Don Hobak on December 11, 2020, 09:30:44 am
I mean yeah, that's always going to be the case. Especially when you consider that recent generations grew up with the internet while our older relatives didn't

Older generations have proven incredibly adept at catching up with current technology.

(https://www.joeydevilla.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/boomer-with-a-computer-819x1024.jpg)

Image credits/ Mister Tim
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on December 11, 2020, 09:42:07 am
Older generations have proven incredibly adept at catching up with current technology.

Actually many of the 'older generation' can teach the youngsters a thing or two about modern technology. 

I often read that Koreans were the most tech savvy people in the world and I think if you go deeper into that claim it simply meant they were good at social media. If you asked them about the more complicated things their phone or computer could do then you probably would be met with a blank stare.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: hangook77 on December 11, 2020, 09:56:13 am
Older generations have proven incredibly adept at catching up with current technology.

Actually many of the 'older generation' can teach the youngsters a thing or two about modern technology. 

I often read that Koreans were the most tech savvy people in the world and I think if you go deeper into that claim it simply meant they were good at social media. If you asked them about the more complicated things their phone or computer could do then you probably would be met with a blank stare.

Actually, I use to find several years ago that many older and middle aged folks would study and focus intensely on one or two key areas and outside of that were almost dumb on general knowledge about other things.  (Though with many that is changing somewhat.  It seemed more like the older generation in some ways.) 
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Liechtenstein on December 11, 2020, 10:23:55 am
I went to Catholic schools, we had religion class. The Protestants, and there were a few, got sex-ed.

Truth....
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 11, 2020, 10:30:46 am
Older generations have proven incredibly adept at catching up with current technology.

Actually many of the 'older generation' can teach the youngsters a thing or two about modern technology. 
Older gen often had first hand experience with the innards of electronics, either from necessity or their job. Youngins? Nowhere near as much.

Ajumma ran the arcade I used to visit and every time a machine went down she'd fix it, not some hired geek squad dweeb.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: oglop on December 11, 2020, 11:11:14 am
are arcades current tech? most of the ones i've seen have machines that are 20+ years old
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 11, 2020, 01:05:20 pm
are arcades current tech? most of the ones i've seen have machines that are 20+ years old
Fair point on that.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Kyndo on December 11, 2020, 01:31:34 pm
are arcades current tech? most of the ones i've seen have machines that are 20+ years old

My favourite arcade game by far, and which I've spent more time and money on than I'd care to admit after a fun night out with friends, is DDR.
It saddens me that when I wikied it, I discovered that, yeah, DDR arcade machines are 20+ years old.  :cry:

The other game that I often gravitate to is 1945, which is maybe the classic, gold standard for all arcade games. It kinda shocked me to find out that it's only 2 years older than DDR!
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr C on December 11, 2020, 02:18:50 pm
Older generations have proven incredibly adept at catching up with current technology.

(https://www.joeydevilla.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/boomer-with-a-computer-819x1024.jpg)

Image credits/ Mister Tim

I must say I'm lookin' pretty good in that photo.  Lost some weight, I think.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Don Hobak on December 11, 2020, 08:44:23 pm
I must say I'm lookin' pretty good in that photo.  Lost some weight, I think.

First rule of internetting, old man: never out yourself on online forums! C’mon, you saw what happened to CO2. Perhaps the weight loss can be attributed to all that time spent on the DDR machine during your trips with Marty to Jeong Ajumma’s Arcade Palace. I’m surprised he didn’t warn you about the perils of being doxxed then.

And why your desk would be on castors but your desk chair not is beyond me.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: JNM on December 11, 2020, 11:14:12 pm
...
And why your desk would be on castors but your desk chair not is beyond me.

You only need to move one, and having the wall behind you:

1) prevents people from seeing your porn sensitive or personal data you may be working on, and
2) makes a better Zoom background.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: mikestanley464 on December 12, 2020, 12:50:08 am
First rule of internetting, old man: never out yourself on online forums! C’mon, you saw what happened to CO2. Perhaps the weight loss can be attributed to all that time spent on the DDR machine during your trips with Marty to Jeong Ajumma’s Arcade Palace. I’m surprised he didn’t warn you about the perils of being doxxed then.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: 303lmc on December 15, 2020, 09:42:19 am
my question earlier was WHY do they  top and butcher trees here? I heard the buzz of chainsaws all day  yesterday at the school, which is next to my apartments. they totally butchered the once beautiful trees. I had seriously considered staying just one more year, but that was a clear message to GTFO!!
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Kyndo on December 15, 2020, 10:25:12 am
Perhaps the weight loss can be attributed to all that time spent on the DDR machine during your trips with Marty to Jeong Ajumma’s Arcade Palace.
What? Mr.Demartino and Mr. C do DDR as well?  :shocked: Fantastic! We should all totally do a Waygook DDR party!
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Ariadne on December 15, 2020, 10:52:48 am
Why don't they put fluoride in the toothpaste?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: OnNut81 on December 15, 2020, 11:31:02 am
Why don't the big supermarkets have the check out counters that have the swiveling bar, so when one person is packing their groceries they can just swivel the bar and the next person's items go into a separate area?  People are always on top of each other at the check out counters because they never wait until you're done before they start ringing up the next person's stuff.  Seems like a pretty straightforward and well known solution. 
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: 303lmc on December 15, 2020, 11:56:05 am
Why don't the big supermarkets have the check out counters that have the swiveling bar, so when one person is packing their groceries they can just swivel the bar and the next person's items go into a separate area?  People are always on top of each other at the check out counters because they never wait until you're done before they start ringing up the next person's stuff.  Seems like a pretty straightforward and well known solution. 
agreed. and yet the parking lot for the market is super hi tech, lights over each parking spot indicating if its open or not, red or green.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: 745sticky on December 15, 2020, 12:05:59 pm
Perhaps the weight loss can be attributed to all that time spent on the DDR machine

I learned what DDR really means the hard way
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: hangook77 on December 15, 2020, 12:50:47 pm
Post a question or quote a person's post with any answer you might have.

Question
Why do so many cars have heavily tinted windows? Do they think it'll prevent the skin from darkening?

Question
Why do schools open for 2 weeks in early February? I've asked and never got a universal/straight answer. A few changes to the system and some proper scheduling could easily manage an uninterrupted holiday period.

Question
Why do people spit? I've heard numerous reasons (it helps prevent cancer while smoking etc.) but never one universal theory. I'm guessing nobody really knows and Korean teenagers simply do it to emulate adults.

Question
Why does every school need a principal and vice principal? One of my elementary schools has a total of 40 students and I've heard of ones with fewer. Do we really need a VP and principal to run such a small school?


Tinted windows were originally to save face.  No one s\could see a younger person or an older person.  Though ajossis drove black cars and women drove white.  Younger people drove silver.  Also a tiny matiz hatchback had to give way to a BMW or a black grandeur as you had to give way to your senior.  Not being able to see the driver allowed you to hide your shame or something like that.  This was years ago the hierarchy which also applied to the road.  It's also why police use to not pull people over.  Because the ajossi told the cop he was older than him and how dare he pull him over.  If the ajossi was friendly or knew the head of the police, the younger cop could get reprimanded.  Formula for corruption.  Confuscianism taken to the extreme.  It is changing a lot now.  Much of this going out the window.  But some habits remain.  Being anonymous or hidden while driving still plays a role.

The two weeks in February is dumb and should just be the first week or two of January tacked onto the school year.  But it was originally to check the kids homework assigned over the holidays.  Then spring vacation the last two or three weeks of Feb was for resting.  I usually take my vacation during this time though some schools restrict it for some dumb reason. 

When you have flem or other things or stomach acid or whatever, spitting gets rid of it rather than keeping it in and swallowing it.  Clears the nasal and throat passages better.  Spicy food can cause stomach acid and a kind of mucus and smoke or even allergies from dust or whatever.  Westerners aren't immune to this.  But folks spit here a lot less than they use to.  Korea not the smokers paradise it once was. 

In the countryside when I was there over a decade ago, small middle schools only had a principal and no support or admin staff.  The teachers had a low teaching workload so they had to split the duties up amongst themselves.  Teachers liked it due to less stress and some slackness (IE their principal might let them sit during class or go for a walk in the afternoon around the area).  Why elementary does it, I have no idea.  But the administration of the schools are broken into two categories at the local and provincial office.  Middle and High school together.  Elementary is it's own separate division and the two don't communicate with each other.  To be honest I have only worked elementary the last 3 or 4 years in a bigger city.  I did middle before that exclusively and a bit of both in the country but mostly middle with a little High School. 

I am stumped on that one.  Different bureaucracy and reporting systems.  Even many of the teachers don't associate with each other.  Sometimes we had meetings at the education office where a bunch of co teachers had to come.  The Elementary and Middle teachers largely stayed in their own groups even there in a social setting. 
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: OnNut81 on December 15, 2020, 12:52:44 pm
agreed. and yet the parking lot for the market is super hi tech, lights over each parking spot indicating if its open or not, red or green.

In comparison to back home, the parking lots are probably the nicest parts of the supermarkets here.  I was always perplexed when Walmart was leaving Korea, Koreans would say that Walmart just didn't understand the Korean shopper.  They didn't like the bare bones feel of the stores.  EMart hasn't changed a thing with the look of the former Walmart at Pyeongcheon station.  It still looks like crap.  The only nice supermarket I've been to in Korea was a Kim's Club in the Bucheon bus terminal building.  All the others are fine, just very utilitarian.  No high ceilings letting in the natural light for example.  They have all the warmth of a laboratory. 

So, to keep in the spirit of things I will ask a burning question:

Why do Koreans hate nice supermarkets so much?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: hangook77 on December 15, 2020, 12:53:32 pm
why do the old people here ALWAYS push you in the back to get off the subway when EVERYONE IS ALREADY getting off, only to then potter slowly to the escalator and stand still? what's gooing on there?

why do old korean men always seem to gravitate into my path when the pavement is 100% empty, only to then look offended when they get slightly shoulder checked?

if i go to the park for the afternoon, why does a family always seem to set up camp RIGHT NEXT TO me, despite the whole area being empty?

Why do the old people always walk in the middle of the road in a rural myeon or ri when there is a sidewalk built and they don't use it?  (Though honestly, it was far more widespread 10 or 15 years ago.)

Why did ajossis whip it out in the middle of the street or standing on a bridge over a river and take a leak in front of everyone with no shame?  (I did witness this in some very small towns long ago.  Never in Seoul.)  It really doesn't happen anymore.   But it was the strangest thing ever.  This was during the middle of the day no less. 
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: hangook77 on December 15, 2020, 12:58:59 pm
In comparison to back home, the parking lots are probably the nicest parts of the supermarkets here.  I was always perplexed when Walmart was leaving Korea, Koreans would say that Walmart just didn't understand the Korean shopper.  They didn't like the bare bones feel of the stores.  EMart hasn't changed a thing with the look of the former Walmart at Pyeongcheon station.  It still looks like crap.  The only nice supermarket I've been to in Korea was a Kim's Club in the Bucheon bus terminal building.  All the others are fine, just very utilitarian.  No high ceilings letting in the natural light for example.  They have all the warmth of a laboratory. 

So, to keep in the spirit of things I will ask a burning question:

Why do Koreans hate nice supermarkets so much?

They left just before I got here.  I heard many suppliers actually tried to block them and would refuse to sell to them to sabotage them.  Koreans use to be very good at collective behaviour especially if the national pride was at stake.  No one would go against the grain.  Not like that so much anymore. 

One of the things I did hear was also with carrefour is they made great fresh bread and then it became home ever?  They made crappier bread and then later it became homeplus?  Only going on what folks told me.  In general, my guess is Wal Mart didn't sell enough kinds of kimchi?  At least when Costco came in, they brought their own supply chain, which Wal Mart didn't do.

I have heard in China when it went in, Chinese treated it as high end and only wealthier people originally shopped there.  China didn't have the nationalism going on until recent years though.  Korea did at the time.  Wal Mart went into both countries in the late 90's? 
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: OnNut81 on December 15, 2020, 01:19:07 pm
They left just before I got here.  I heard many suppliers actually tried to block them and would refuse to sell to them to sabotage them.  Koreans use to be very good at collective behaviour especially if the national pride was at stake.  No one would go against the grain.  Not like that so much anymore. 

One of the things I did hear was also with carrefour is they made great fresh bread and then it became home ever?  They made crappier bread and then later it became homeplus?  Only going on what folks told me.  In general, my guess is Wal Mart didn't sell enough kinds of kimchi?  At least when Costco came in, they brought their own supply chain, which Wal Mart didn't do.

I have heard in China when it went in, Chinese treated it as high end and only wealthier people originally shopped there.  China didn't have the nationalism going on until recent years though.  Korea did at the time.  Wal Mart went into both countries in the late 90's? 

Yeah, I also heard that EMart partnered with Walmart to learn the ropes of running a hypermart, and then tried to squeeze them out when they thought they could run it on their own.  Koreans usually got defensive when asked about that, so they would always revert to the collective bullsh*t line of "Walmart didn't get Korean shoppers."  Carrefour had some good products that the other places didn't carry.  Like jarred coq au vin sauce and Old El Paso taco kits.  I don't remember their bread, but I'm sure it was better than its successors, Homever and Homeplus's bakeries. 

Why do Koreans hate Old El Paso taco kits so much? 
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: hangook77 on December 15, 2020, 01:25:54 pm
Yeah, I also heard that EMart partnered with Walmart to learn the ropes of running a hypermart, and then tried to squeeze them out when they thought they could run it on their own.  Koreans usually got defensive when asked about that, so they would always revert to the collective bullsh*t line of "Walmart didn't get Korean shoppers."  Carrefour had some good products that the other places didn't carry.  Like jarred coq au vin sauce and Old El Paso taco kits.  I don't remember their bread, but I'm sure it was better than its successors, Homever and Homeplus's bakeries. 

Why do Koreans hate Old El Paso taco kits so much? 

They might like it now if educated on how to use it and which supplies to use or partially use.  Even out here in the provinces, foreign restaurants are opening up and they are starting to like many kinds of foreign foods.  I remember, especially outside of Seoul and Gyeonggi, if it wasn't rice and kimchi, it wouldn't go over very well nor last.  Shows just how much Korea has changed in the last few years. 

I never tried Coupang.  Are they on there?  I have to buy some specialty foods there due to not trekking up to Seoul this winter.  I just started using that site over the past year or so. 
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 15, 2020, 01:30:08 pm
Why do Koreans hate Old El Paso taco kits so much?
Same reason Mexicans hate them.

They're shit.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: D.L.Orean on December 15, 2020, 01:31:40 pm
Same reason Mexicans hate them.

They're shit.

DMart bringing the heat.

Put me in the same category. Not sure why people think old el paso taco kits are good.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 15, 2020, 01:37:59 pm
Why do Koreans hate nice supermarkets so much?
Top question on my mind when i walk into a supermarket- "Why aren't there cathedral ceilings so we can waste more energy heating and cooling the place?"
Also, next question from OnNut81: "Why don't Koreans do anything about the smog?"

Quote
Yeah, I also heard that EMart partnered with Walmart to learn the ropes of running a hypermart, and then tried to squeeze them out when they thought they could run it on their own.
That's what you're supposed to do if you don't want to get overtaken. What, are they supposed to all hug and kiss each other? This is hyper-competitive business, not neighbors teaching each other how to bake a cake. You think Wal-Mart is some sort of kind entity that wasn't looking to take over E-Mart?

Even out here in the provinces, foreign restaurants are opening up and they are starting to like many kinds of foreign foods.  I remember, especially outside of Seoul and Gyeonggi, if it wasn't rice and kimchi, it wouldn't go over very well nor last.  Shows just how much Korea has changed in the last few years. 

I never tried Coupang. 
Dude, my EBF town I first taught in had foreign products and a few restaurants.

Going out on a limb here, but maybe the person who thinks this is some "new phenomenon in the last few years" and "never used Coupang" doesn't exactly have his finger on the pulse of food, shopping, and dining in Korea.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 15, 2020, 01:46:03 pm
DMart bringing the heat.

Put me in the same category. Not sure why people think old el paso taco kits are good.
Seriously..."Why don't Koreans like good food, like Old El Paso taco kits" is a massive self-fail on so many levels. Reminds me of way back when on Dave's when someone was bitching that Koreans didn't like good food like Subway.

I can't imagine why someone wouldn't have wanted a bunch of stale taco shells that crumble when you take one bite or vacuum-packed tortillas combined with a foil-wrapped packet of sodium benzoate sulfite sorbate acid hypertension masquerading as "seasoning."

You'll see this pop up at various times "Why don't Koreans like processed, mass-produced, mediocre tasting, and incredibly unhealthy product X from back home? What's wrong with them???"

It's on the level of bitching about Korean pizza having sweet potato or corn and it not being authentic as a person orders a Hawaiian or Chicken BBQ pizza. Like, FFS, do you not have any self-awareness?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: 745sticky on December 15, 2020, 01:54:55 pm
Top question on my mind when i walk into a supermarket- "Why aren't there cathedral ceilings so we can waste more energy heating and cooling the place?"

Interesting definition of a "nice supermarket" you got there, but I'm not sure if anyone else is on the same page.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 15, 2020, 02:02:55 pm
Interesting definition of a "nice supermarket" you go there, but I'm not sure if anyone else is on the same page.

The only nice supermarket I've been to in Korea was a Kim's Club in the Bucheon bus terminal building.  All the others are fine, just very utilitarian. No high ceilings letting in the natural light for example.  They have all the warmth of a laboratory. 

So, to keep in the spirit of things I will ask a burning question:

Why do Koreans hate nice supermarkets so much?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: 745sticky on December 15, 2020, 02:06:36 pm
interesting definition of a "nice supermarket" you got there, but I'm not sure if anyone else is on the same page (x2)
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: OnNut81 on December 15, 2020, 02:40:45 pm
Seriously..."Why don't Koreans like good food, like Old El Paso taco kits" is a massive self-fail on so many levels. Reminds me of way back when on Dave's when someone was bitching that Koreans didn't like good food like Subway.

I can't imagine why someone wouldn't have wanted a bunch of stale taco shells that crumble when you take one bite or vacuum-packed tortillas combined with a foil-wrapped packet of sodium benzoate sulfite sorbate acid hypertension masquerading as "seasoning."

You'll see this pop up at various times "Why don't Koreans like processed, mass-produced, mediocre tasting, and incredibly unhealthy product X from back home? What's wrong with them???"

It's on the level of bitching about Korean pizza having sweet potato or corn and it not being authentic as a person orders a Hawaiian or Chicken BBQ pizza. Like, FFS, do you not have any self-awareness?

Self-awareness? Says the guy who is so thin-skinned, that the fact that I clearly made those questions in jest to keep in line with the thread name went completely over his head and triggered him.  Do you think I actually think Koreans are even aware of Old El Paso and collectively voiced their displeasure over the product?  Do you think I believe that Koreans hate nice supermarkets?   

Just when I think you've expressed all the different ways one can to embarrass themselves , you go and pull another example out of your hat.

And, yes, I enjoy supermarkets that have high ceilings, natural lighting, wide aisles, and some art and murals to low-ceilinged bare bones utilitarian places.  DMart, this triggers you how? 

I am not Mexican or from the south.  I don't care whatsoever if someone thinks taco kits are crap.  I like them.  I like warming them in the toaster oven a bit, then laying them out so people can stuff in what they want from what you've prepared.  Black beans, guacamole, shredded cheese, sour cream, ground beef and yes, I like the Old El Paso taco sauce.  My taste buds answer to only one person. 
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: OnNut81 on December 15, 2020, 02:47:21 pm
interesting definition of a "nice supermarket" you got there, but I'm not sure if anyone else is on the same page (x2)

Aesthetically speaking.  No point in going over things like having an actual deli counter with a variety of foods and prepared dishes.  That would be subjective and trigger DMart because I would be complaining about foods that Koreans don't want.  He would then tell me "Welcome to life as an immigrant."  I wanted to avoid that.  But, apparently even criticism of a Korean supermarket's look  can set him off. 
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 15, 2020, 03:58:14 pm
Do you think I actually think Koreans are even aware of Old El Paso and collectively voiced their displeasure over the product?  Do you think I believe that Koreans hate nice supermarkets?   
50-50. Lots of people say dumb stuff on here from time to time. Not always sure.

Quote
And, yes, I enjoy supermarkets that have high ceilings, natural lighting, wide aisles, and some art and murals to low-ceilinged bare bones utilitarian places.  DMart, this triggers you how?
It's not "triggered" to point out that if you're going to wish for those things, don't bitch and moan when the power plant is belching out smog to power the A/C or heater for the place.

Quote
I am not Mexican or from the south.  I don't care whatsoever if someone thinks taco kits are crap.  I like them.  I like warming them in the toaster oven a bit, then laying them out so people can stuff in what they want from what you've prepared.  Black beans, guacamole, shredded cheese, sour cream, ground beef and yes, I like the Old El Paso taco sauce.  My taste buds answer to only one person.
Okay, you're upset Koreans don't like Old El Paso Taco kits which taste like shit. You're bothered that Koreans don't like the crap food you like.

Quote
Aesthetically speaking.  No point in going over things like having an actual deli counter with a variety of foods and prepared dishes.  That would be subjective and trigger DMart because I would be complaining about foods that Koreans don't want.  He would then tell me "Welcome to life as an immigrant."
Whining that Korean supermarkets don't have a deli counter makes as much sense as some Korean in the US bitching and moaning that there isn't a banchan counter.

They do have prepared dishes, just not the prepared dishes YOU want.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: oglop on December 15, 2020, 04:19:51 pm
talking of supermarkets, what's with the guy shouting down the microphone with volume turned up to 11 while almost blasting my eardrums out? no korean person i have ever talked to actually likes this. most i know actively dislike and the others don't really care either way
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: OnNut81 on December 15, 2020, 05:12:19 pm
50-50. Lots of people say dumb stuff on here from time to time. Not always sure.
It's not "triggered" to point out that if you're going to wish for those things, don't bitch and moan when the power plant is belching out smog to power the A/C or heater for the place.
Okay, you're upset Koreans don't like Old El Paso Taco kits which taste like shit. You're bothered that Koreans don't like the crap food you like.
Whining that Korean supermarkets don't have a deli counter makes as much sense as some Korean in the US bitching and moaning that there isn't a banchan counter.

They do have prepared dishes, just not the prepared dishes YOU want.

No, there is no way anyone could believe I actually believed Koreans as a whole hated Old El Paso taco kits.  The only way that could be believed would be if someone came into the discussion with a an already established set of beliefs and was just hoping for a comment to confirm what they already believe.  It’s almost like a confirmation bias. Are you familiar with that term?

Your other comments about tacos and Koreans I will dismiss out of hand because you want my comments to have been serious to justify your embarrassing earlier comments.  But, it’s obvious they weren’t to any rational person. 

In regards to complaining about the smog from air conditioning the supermarket where did I mention anything about that?  Or are you going to do that thing where you cite a specific comment but respond with a fake allegation and claim you just meant it as general remark to the world at large? 

In regards to the deli counter, again where did I say they don’t have anything I want?  By the way, the manner in which you capitalized YOU really hit home.  I almost started slow clapping.  I just would like to see more.  Again, i pointed out this was subjective so I didn’t bring it up specifically as you would take it the wrong way, and no surprise, you did.  You really need to look into what “confirmation bias” is. I think it may help you stop missing the point so often. 
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 15, 2020, 06:11:36 pm
No, there is no way anyone could believe I actually believed Koreans as a whole hated Old El Paso taco kits. 
Given how most posts go here, yeah it is actually a way people could believe it.

Or are you claiming "Why do Koreans (insert generalized comment here)?" is some sort of rare occurrence here?

Quote
Your other comments about tacos and Koreans I will dismiss out of hand because you want my comments to have been serious to justify your embarrassing earlier comments.  But, it’s obvious they weren’t to any rational person.
My response was that they don't like them for the same reason Mexicans don't like them: They taste like shit.

If you think this is an untrue or "embarrassing" comment, go right ahead and think that. I'll also add that the lack of Chef Boyardee here is probably due to Koreans thinking the same as Italians- It tastes like shit.  (Except for Beefaroni)

Quote
In regards to complaining about the smog from air conditioning the supermarket where did I mention anything about that?  Or are you going to do that thing where you cite a specific comment but respond with a fake allegation and claim you just meant it as general remark to the world at large?
You know there's a connection between the volume of a facility and the energy required to heat/cool it, right? You know their might be a connection between that and the lack of spacious ceilings, right?

No one is taking anything the wrong way, just pointing out some things you might not have considered.


Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: JNM on December 15, 2020, 07:03:10 pm
I think it was the extreme hatred of Old El Paso Taco Kits(TM) that led to the demise of both Carrefour and WalMart in Korea.

/s
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: OnNut81 on December 16, 2020, 07:58:18 am
Given how most posts go here, yeah it is actually a way people could believe it.

Or are you claiming "Why do Koreans (insert generalized comment here)?" is some sort of rare occurrence here?


Irrelevant and an attempt to distract from your obvious overreaction.  How most posts go has nothing to do with my very specific comment.  You can keep talking around the fact that you took a flippant comment seriously and parodied yourself, yet again. And I have no doubt you will continue to attempt to rationalize your reaction until people get bored and move on from this thread, and you can count that as some kind of victory in whatever warped scorecard you keep. 

What do the heating/cooling requirements of a building have to do with me preferring the aesthetic look of many western supermarkets where I'm from?  Are you actually so sensitive that you feel the need to defend an inanimate object?  And, before you mention it, only someone with blinders on could've taken my comment about "Koreans hating nice supermarkets" seriously.  You say it happens all the time, but the vast majority of those kind of comments on this site have come from you when you present one of your many fictitious accounts of western reactions to Korean culture. 

If only you could have controlled your triggered impulses and left your comments at "because Mexicans hate them" you would just have had a humorous response.  But you couldn't and turned it into another one of your entitled foreigner rants. 
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: 745sticky on December 16, 2020, 08:04:15 am

My response was that they don't like them for the same reason Mexicans don't like them: They taste like shit.

If you think this is an untrue or "embarrassing" comment, go right ahead and think that. I'll also add that the lack of Chef Boyardee here is probably due to Koreans thinking the same as Italians- It tastes like shit.  (Except for Beefaroni)


the point

your head

OnNut has already said his assertion that Koreans as a whole hate Old Paso taco kits was meant to be facetious. Instead of trying to re-frame his point by making it seem like he's arguing against the response he has already acknowledged he doesn't care about, you should quote the rest of it:

Seriously..."Why don't Koreans like good food, like Old El Paso taco kits" is a massive self-fail on so many levels. Reminds me of way back when on Dave's when someone was bitching that Koreans didn't like good food like Subway.

I can't imagine why someone wouldn't have wanted a bunch of stale taco shells that crumble when you take one bite or vacuum-packed tortillas combined with a foil-wrapped packet of sodium benzoate sulfite sorbate acid hypertension masquerading as "seasoning."

You'll see this pop up at various times "Why don't Koreans like processed, mass-produced, mediocre tasting, and incredibly unhealthy product X from back home? What's wrong with them???"

It's on the level of bitching about Korean pizza having sweet potato or corn and it not being authentic as a person orders a Hawaiian or Chicken BBQ pizza. Like, FFS, do you not have any self-awareness?

You got big mad over an obvious bait post. Just take your L and get over it, and stop trying to pretend that you're actually proving anything
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: hippo on December 16, 2020, 11:44:17 am
Garden of Eatin’ Taco Kits are the best. Tell me why I am wrong.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 16, 2020, 01:36:35 pm
Irrelevant and an attempt to distract from your obvious overreaction.  How most posts go has nothing to do with my very specific comment.  You can keep talking around the fact that you took a flippant comment seriously and parodied yourself, yet again. And I have no doubt you will continue to attempt to rationalize your reaction until people get bored and move on from this thread, and you can count that as some kind of victory in whatever warped scorecard you keep. 
I said that Old El Paso taco kits taste like shit. That was as flippant as anything you wrote. Then I went on a quick rant about people bitching about food things here.

You got big mad over an obvious bait post. Just take your L and get over it, and stop trying to pretend that you're actually proving anything

Dude...

Quote
I can't imagine why someone wouldn't have wanted a bunch of stale taco shells that crumble when you take one bite or vacuum-packed tortillas combined with a foil-wrapped packet of sodium benzoate sulfite sorbate acid hypertension masquerading as "seasoning."

This is not "big mad". This is having a laugh. Case in point:

Quote
I'll also add that the lack of Chef Boyardee here is probably due to Koreans thinking the same as Italians- It tastes like shit.  (Except for Beefaroni)

Same as the Canadian throwdown with some poster a while back, there was a wink there.

What do the heating/cooling requirements of a building have to do with me preferring the aesthetic look of many western supermarkets where I'm from?  Are you actually so sensitive that you feel the need to defend an inanimate object? 
Okay, this I'll actually go after because it is genuinely ignorant. There is a direct connection between the "look" and heating/cooling costs. There is also a direct link between that and increased energy consumption and pollution.

If you want to talk about me taking an L and calming down, you should probably do the same here. Acknowledge "Yeah, it makes sense to have low ceilings to reduce energy costs. I didn't think of that. In fact, we should probably do that back home to be greener. Aesthetics aren't everything."
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: 745sticky on December 16, 2020, 02:20:17 pm
This is not "big mad". This is having a laugh. Case in point:

Good job cutting up your quotes to avoid acknowledging the bits of what you said that we're actually talking about.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: OnNut81 on December 16, 2020, 02:20:28 pm



Okay, this I'll actually go after because it is genuinely ignorant. There is a direct connection between the "look" and heating/cooling costs. There is also a direct link between that and increased energy consumption and pollution.

If you want to talk about me taking an L and calming down, you should probably do the same here. Acknowledge "Yeah, it makes sense to have low ceilings to reduce energy costs. I didn't think of that. In fact, we should probably do that back home to be greener. Aesthetics aren't everything."

It wasn't me talking about you taking the L.  You've already received the L, that's clear to anyone who read this thread.  It's not like a summons.  You don't have to accept it for it to be served.  You have been served with an L, no question. 

You are trying to avoid another L, by attempting to change the tone of the argument.  I never said high ceilings was more energy efficient.  I said repeatedly that I preferred the aesthetic look of some western supermarkets.  Only YOU have brought the energy angle into this in a pathetic attempt to change the conversation and mask that once again you saw red before even understanding the comments.  And enough with the attempt to turn it into a "green" argument.  My local Emart has three floors of shopping with about four open floors of parking on top.  The escalator passageway is open all the way to the top, allowing cool or heated air to escape out through the escalator wells and up to the parking which is open to the elements with the doors constantly opening.  Yeah, that's pretty green all right. 

I know you took a beating here, and you're taking another one by completely whiffing on The Trainspotting reference currently in another thread, but you're not helping your case.  Actually, none of it matters.  Perhaps there was a time where you had credibility on a site, but that's long gone so I guess you don't care.  You need to be the resident harpy to feel better about yourself.  Have at it.  I will stay out of this thread for a few days and you can respond, and when I don't counter, you have my permission to say "I've won!"  Arguing with you sometimes feels like picking on a child.  I feel a bit ashamed. 
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: tylerthegloob on December 16, 2020, 02:54:33 pm
completely whiffing on The Trainspotting reference currently in another thread
feelsbadman
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 16, 2020, 03:01:52 pm
It wasn't me talking about you taking the L.  You've already received the L, that's clear to anyone who read this thread.  It's not like a summons.  You don't have to accept it for it to be served.  You have been served with an L, no question. 

You are trying to avoid another L, by attempting to change the tone of the argument.  I never said high ceilings was more energy efficient.  I said repeatedly that I preferred the aesthetic look of some western supermarkets.  Only YOU have brought the energy angle into this in a pathetic attempt to change the conversation and mask that once again you saw red before even understanding the comments.  And enough with the attempt to turn it into a "green" argument.  My local Emart has three floors of shopping with about four open floors of parking on top.  The escalator passageway is open all the way to the top, allowing cool or heated air to escape out through the escalator wells and up to the parking which is open to the elements with the doors constantly opening.  Yeah, that's pretty green all right. 

I know you took a beating here, and you're taking another one by completely whiffing on The Trainspotting reference currently in another thread, but you're not helping your case.  Actually, none of it matters.  Perhaps there was a time where you had credibility on a site, but that's long gone so I guess you don't care.  You need to be the resident harpy to feel better about yourself.  Have at it.  I will stay out of this thread for a few days and you can respond, and when I don't counter, you have my permission to say "I've won!"  Arguing with you sometimes feels like picking on a child.  I feel a bit ashamed. 
Dude, you just proclaiming wins and losses doesn't change the fact that you made a STUPID point. Yes, it was STUPID. Deep down you KNOW you didn't think of that factor when you made the comment. It's okay, we all have those slips. Everyone says stupid shit. And yes, we're going to try and get around it when it happens, but it was dumb.

You did more than just comment on the aesthetic. There was an implicit value judgment. Just admit you didn't think about heating and cooling costs and thought you were making a point, a fairly mild one, but still it was poorly thought through.

Again, why not just admit you didn't consider that factor and go "Oh, that makes sense." Instead you do this pathetic tactic of trying to posture so you look like you're above it all.

Quote
The escalator passageway is open all the way to the top, allowing cool or heated air to escape out through the escalator wells and up to the parking which is open to the elements with the doors constantly opening.  Yeah, that's pretty green all right.
Yes, every store is going to have points of ingress and egress that will result in heat/cooling loss.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: 745sticky on December 16, 2020, 03:16:00 pm
Again, why not just admit you didn't consider that factor and go "Oh, that makes sense." Instead you do this pathetic tactic of trying to posture so you look like you're above it all.

ironic
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Kyndo on December 17, 2020, 06:59:02 am
Yes, every store is going to have points of ingress and egress that will result in heat/cooling loss.

Just would like to randomly point out that most of the e-marts etc in my area have small "airlock" foyers (with automatic glass doors on either side). These serve a few different purposes I guess, but one of them is to prevent too much mixing of air. They're pretty effective.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: hangook77 on December 17, 2020, 11:18:45 am
This is a long chat about Old El Paso kits.  Ha ha.  I've been too busy making ppt's.  (But am coming to the end of this 2 year spiel.) 
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: vicarious on December 17, 2020, 11:25:22 am
Why is garlic bread sweet here?

(And why do I love it so much?)
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: leaponover on December 22, 2020, 03:56:33 pm

Question
Why do people spit? I've heard numerous reasons (it helps prevent cancer while smoking etc.) but never one universal theory. I'm guessing nobody really knows and Korean teenagers simply do it to emulate adults.


My stepson spits a lot, and it drives me nuts.  Turns out, its allergies.  Not a heck of a lot he can do about it.  Just gets a lot of congestion and swallowing it makes him feel like he's choking, so he feels the need to spit it out.  Can't really say that's a blanket answer, the spitting drives me crazy as well, but at least that's one explanation for one case, lol.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Aristocrat on December 22, 2020, 05:40:09 pm
My stepson spits a lot, and it drives me nuts.  Turns out, its allergies.  Not a heck of a lot he can do about it.  Just gets a lot of congestion and swallowing it makes him feel like he's choking, so he feels the need to spit it out.  Can't really say that's a blanket answer, the spitting drives me crazy as well, but at least that's one explanation for one case, lol.

Yeah, that's understandable and definitely an exception. The only time I ever feel the need to spit is while surfing, no idea why, probably something to do with the salt. Even so, I don't hock back my lungs, it's a quick little spit into the sea.

For most people in Korea, I don't buy the smoking argument. My current theory is that it's a combination of: teenagers trying to posture their Machismo by acting like ajjushis, superstitious jazz about bad energy, growing up relatively uncivilized and without a masculine
role-model who taught you how to be any more refined than a boiled potato. 


Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: oglop on December 22, 2020, 06:06:18 pm
a guy i used to teach told me he got in trouble for constantly spitting while in singapore but couldn't understand what was wrong with it. he didn't consider his behaviour strange or dirty

i guess that hits on the "uncivilised" part, but i found it genuinely mental he thought spitting was 100% okay

having said that, we once did a business english group lesson on how to tell an anecdote. everyone told relatively normal anecdotes but his anecdote was that when he was in australia, he was on a farm doing fruit picking. suddenly, while sleeping (in a big room with multiple others in it), he got a stomach ache but the toilet was occupied. so he shat himself in the shower and stamped it down the plughole. the end.

so maybe this guy's opinions shouldn't be taken too seriously
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 22, 2020, 06:59:32 pm
If I were to swallow smokey saliva or a mouthful of cowdung air, I would probably vomit. Spitting is a better alternative.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Aristocrat on December 22, 2020, 08:01:51 pm
If I were to swallow smokey saliva or a mouthful of cowdung air, I would probably vomit. Spitting is a better alternative.

Tissues are a thing
I smoked for a decade and not once did I feel the need to spit and only once, outside Korea, did I meet someone who did. This person only did so while smoking. I'm breathing the same air as the spitters, as are all the Koreans who don't spit and find the behaviour repulsive.

If you feel the need to urinate, do you find a toilet or pee in the road? If you feel the need to fart and you're around others, do you find a toilet/exercise general discretion by doing the deed away from others or do you proudly sound the trumpets?
You see where I'm going with this?

That aside, exactly how many times, while in Korea, have you really felt the need to spit????

No other way to cut it other than public spitters are crass, uncivilized simpletons who should be fined on the spot for their disgusting behaviour. 
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: oglop on December 22, 2020, 08:26:57 pm
Enter DM's <"yes but what people letting their dogs piss on the street? Same difference"> comment here

Pre-emptied ya
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Lazio on December 22, 2020, 08:41:29 pm
If I were to swallow smokey saliva or a mouthful of cowdung air, I would probably vomit. Spitting is a better alternative.

Damn, there must be a f.ckton of cowdung in this country... Most people that we see spitting, would have a hard time recalling the last time they saw a farm animal up close.
Stop trying to make ridiculous excuses for spitting. Please don't embarass yourself with the ''what about birds crapping on the pavement'' line! You really want to compare humans to animals???
Don't try to make it look okay because you're just making yourself ridiculous. Just let it go.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: hangook77 on December 23, 2020, 08:00:23 am
Older generations have proven incredibly adept at catching up with current technology.

(https://www.joeydevilla.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/boomer-with-a-computer-819x1024.jpg)

Image credits/ Mister Tim

What's with the whole OK Boomer nonsense?  Any intelligent idea or skepticism should be discarded because they are a boomer or something?  Quite harping on my parents generation, man! 

Besides, weren't a bunch of them dirty pot smoking free love hippies?  Guess that explains all the divorces and kids coming from broken homes, then.  Well, in that case, OK boomer.  Damn you!!!
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: fka on December 23, 2020, 08:12:20 am
It's obvious that DeMartino's objection to public defecating has more to do with his animus toward Koreans and his inability to adapt as an immigrant than to the defecation itself. What with his acceptance of spitting, the pigeon droppings on the pavement and car oil staining his shoe soles, such an objection is completely arbitrary. After all, there is only one letter of difference between spit and shit. If you aren't complaining about ajeossis throwing phlegm in the subway station during a viral pandemic, but you find it "disgusting" and "foul" when someone noisily signals their gastrointestinal discomfort, slowly lowers their trousers, squats in the middle of a busy shopping street and drops a pile of steaming crap, that reflects only your hypocrisy and ridiculous double standards (not to mention a probable element of racism).

Have you ever drunk coffee? It stimulates the bowels and has a laxative effect. If you drink coffee, you basically have two options: 1) suffer from compacted bowels and die or 2) rip a loud fart in public, drop your drawers and spray the street with diarrhea. That's why you see so many people huddled at the entrances of coffee shops, baring their asses and dropping turds onto the doorway. Martino doesn't like it when he wakes up to a human turd in his doorway, but some people were just never meant to live abroad. Welcome to being an immigrant.

As for Koreans who don't engage in this kind of behavior and also find it repulsive, I can only guess that they are products of wishy-washy modern liberal education. A 12-hour shift in the munitions factory and a few sachets of Maxim would fix that, and before long the streets would glow brown with hard-won life experience and acknowledgement of biological reality.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Kyndo on December 23, 2020, 08:45:49 am
Before anybody responds to the above comment, I want to say that my sarcasm detector is tingling. (https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1061/1924/products/2_large.png?v=1571606116)
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: 745sticky on December 23, 2020, 08:52:12 am
same, although I also gotta say for people who complain about Martino's posts so much yall really love to set the stage for him
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Kyndo on December 23, 2020, 09:09:05 am
The problem is that fka is always just so darn subtle. It took weeks for Team Trump to realize that fka's MAGA hat was a bit off kilter.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: shanebarry1986 on December 23, 2020, 10:23:23 am
growing up relatively uncivilized and without a masculine
role-model who taught you how to be any more refined than a boiled potato. 

The hilarious lack of self awareness from the guy who chimps out and threatens to break the jaw of someone who asks an innocent question, and believes that "If the woman [...]  maintains her chastity and obeys her husband, she will enter the Paradise of her Lord.” (Ṣaḥīḥ Ibn Ḥibbān 4252)  is the perfect Christmas gift.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: 745sticky on December 23, 2020, 10:31:35 am
oh boy
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Aristocrat on December 23, 2020, 10:45:07 am
The hilarious lack of self awareness from the guy who chimps out and threatens to break the jaw of someone who asks an innocent question, and believes that "If the woman [...]  maintains her chastity and obeys her husband, she will enter the Paradise of her Lord.” (S&#38;#803;ah&#38;#803;i&#38;#772;h&#38;#803; Ibn H&#38;#803;ibba&#38;#772;n 4252)  is the perfect Christmas gift.

A threat is a statement of intent. I extended an invitation, an invitation for you to insult my family to my face after signing a waver. I predicted that you would likely receive a nasty injury if you decided to go that route. You chickened out, because you're a coward and you kept trying to get more and more personal with your insults, from the safety of your keyboard because that's your deal... it took me a while to comprehend, but yes, people like you who get pleasure from this kind of behaviour do exist, they're called cowards.

I'm more than happy to discuss ANY topic with anyone in a civilized fashion. You don't discuss, you insult and you have no interest in learning, you're only concerned with antagonizing and trolling.

I'll save the civility for civilized people. You don't fall into that camp and I'm not going to try to change your mind about anything so don't waste your time. Nobody here wants to see another thread derailed into Religion, so give it a rest. I've given you more than enough of my attention.
Now, run along and find something to do, engaging with a coward makes me uncomfortable. 
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: CO2 on December 23, 2020, 10:56:12 am
(https://i.imgflip.com/4rdbtl.jpg)
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: tylerthegloob on December 23, 2020, 11:45:36 am
shanebarry antagonizing aristocrat. that one is definitely on the waygook bingo card!
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: 745sticky on December 23, 2020, 11:48:06 am
is someone referencing the waygook bingo card also on the waygook bingo card?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: tylerthegloob on December 23, 2020, 11:49:11 am
not sure the frequency warrants it, but **** it sure dude
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: 745sticky on December 23, 2020, 12:09:24 pm
not sure the frequency warrants it, but **** it sure dude

you might be underestimating the waygook bingo card, its really been putting in the rounds these past few weeks
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: OnNut81 on December 23, 2020, 01:14:31 pm
you might be underestimating the waygook bingo card, its really been putting in the rounds these past few weeks

A Waygook bingo card would definitely be more equitable.  Would that be in addition to the Dmart bingo card or is it an amalgamation of the two?  Twenty five spaces in total?  I vote for Dude! taking the place of the "free" space. 
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: CO2 on December 23, 2020, 01:25:00 pm
You're welcome.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: OnNut81 on December 23, 2020, 01:29:31 pm
You're welcome.

HaHa, that's an excellent start.  For Chinguetti, I was also thinking something along the lines of "Chinguetti wants to murder all her co-workers today." 
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 23, 2020, 01:30:30 pm
Tissues are a thing
I smoked for a decade and not once did I feel the need to spit and only once, outside Korea, did I meet someone who did. This person only did so while smoking. I'm breathing the same air as the spitters, as are all the Koreans who don't spit and find the behaviour repulsive.
People respond differently to different stimuli. I'm sure some foods in Korea would trigger your gag reflex while they can eat them fine. I can't speak for other Koreans, but I can speak for myself. Smoking gives me a very very strong urge to spit. This wasn't the case when I started smoking, but it is the case now. I don't know why, just one of those things. Anyways, as long as it is in a seedy alley or into a storm drain or flower bed or whatever, who cares?

Quote
No other way to cut it other than public spitters are crass, uncivilized simpletons who should be fined on the spot for their disgusting behaviour
That's one way. Another way is that people getting bent out of shape over it have a stick up their ass and irrationally focus on certain things as "disgusting" with no real basis in logic and would make one rule after another until we all went insane.

Enter DM's <"yes but what people letting their dogs piss on the street? Same difference"> comment here

Pre-emptied ya
It's a valid point. If you have a pet that you let urinate or shit in public, but you bitch and moan about spitters, your position is completely irrational. It's just "dogs cute, ajeosshis not" which is childish thinking.

Damn, there must be a f.ckton of cowdung in this country... Most people that we see spitting, would have a hard time recalling the last time they saw a farm animal up close.
Stop trying to make ridiculous excuses for spitting. Please don't embarass yourself with the ''what about birds crapping on the pavement'' line! You really want to compare humans to animals???
Don't try to make it look okay because you're just making yourself ridiculous. Just let it go.
Go teach in the countryside. Lot of smaller towns have farms even within the city limits. Get off at the bus stop in the summer and breathe deep- First thing that will hit you will be that wonderful smell.

There's more to places than just cities.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 23, 2020, 01:46:49 pm
You're welcome.
Non-User Specific
Canadian brags about how "It's not that cold"
Canadian bitches about how hot it is
TRUMP (Free Space)
John Stossel
Jordan Peterson
Youtube link posted with no description
L I confused for L I C
Thread locked for going off-topic and talking about inane subject after 15 pages of personal attacks
Post about services/goods by someone clearly stuck in pre-smartphone era
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: tylerthegloob on December 23, 2020, 01:51:46 pm
@co2 my only problem is the 1.8mil job posts and hangook's salary moaning are almost aways related. +points for the self-diss though. might i suggest "confusedsaffer mentions taiwan" or perhaps (my favorite) "previously prolific poster departs" (ronnie, colburnnnnnnnnn, eggie, and so on)

pre-post edit: ooooooo d'tino nailed it with stossel video. that should definitely have a place. actually i think LI could probably have his own board.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Lazio on December 23, 2020, 02:01:46 pm
It's a valid point. If you have a pet that you let urinate or shit in public, but you bitch and moan about spitters, your position is completely irrational. It's just "dogs cute, ajeosshis not" which is childish thinking.

There it is again: You are comparing animals to humans. Whatever a dog can do, an ajhossi can do it too. Got it! There is an idea among middle aged and older Korean ladies that men are just like dogs. Perhaps you are also following that logic.

Go teach in the countryside. Lot of smaller towns have farms even within the city limits. Get off at the bus stop in the summer and breathe deep- First thing that will hit you will be that wonderful smell.
There's more to places than just cities.

Yet, people do it in cities as well. I've been all over the countryside and been to farms as well. Never felt the urge to spit. Moreover, I was around plenty of farmers and farms back home but there was no spitting.
No matter how you are trying to twist and turn it, you can't make spitting okay. Anyone with a sense of hygene would find it disgusting. Since you don't, I hope you enjoy walking through plenty of loogies. May the New Year bring plenty of them your way. Merry Christmas!
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Aristocrat on December 23, 2020, 02:06:10 pm
People respond differently to different stimuli. I'm sure some foods in Korea would trigger your gag reflex while they can eat them fine.

Yes, but you think that gives me the excuse to launch a projectile of bolus onto the restaurant floor? Civilized people make use of the serviette and cover their mouth or excuse themselves and go to the bathroom.

I can't speak for other Koreans, but I can speak for myself. Smoking gives me a very very strong urge to spit. This wasn't the case when I started smoking, but it is the case now. I don't know why, just one of those things. Anyways, as long as it is in a seedy alley or into a storm drain or flower bed or whatever, who cares?

It is not in a seedy alley, if it were, it wouldn't be one of the biggest culture shocks when coming to a place like Korea or China. We're all aware of it because it's done in full public view and without shame. Every country on Earth has smokers, but it's a major quirk in places like Korea and China therefore, smoking is NOT the common factor. It's culture and culture is fallible, everyone has the right to praise or criticize any point of culture (whether it's theirs or not) that they wish.

That's one way. Another way is that people getting bent out of shape over it have a stick up their ass and irrationally focus on certain things as "disgusting"

Not showering twice a day = disgusting.
Leaving loogies the size of small pizzas on the pavement where people walk = no problemo

I'm really not going to waste my time rationalizing why it's repulsive and unhygienic. You're obviously blinded by emotion on this subject, but I don't think you're a fool. You can figure it out.

Go teach in the countryside. Lot of smaller towns have farms even within the city limits. Get off at the bus stop in the summer and breathe deep- First thing that will hit you will be that wonderful smell.

My Tuesday school is a country school, I smell fertilizer and pollution on the drive there and I dodge horse crap and potholes... still don't feel the need to spit. Neither does my female CT, neither do most of my students. Strangely, it's only the boys (once they reach middle school) and the male teachers who start spitting. Obviously it's got something to do with Korean male lungs being susceptible to pollution at the onset of puberty and not fledgling macho bravado.

It's an ugly side of Korean culture and that's ok, every culture has an ugly side. Stop trying to defend it, it's pathetic. We're not animals.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: 745sticky on December 23, 2020, 02:07:26 pm
Go teach in the countryside. Lot of smaller towns have farms even within the city limits. Get off at the bus stop in the summer and breathe deep- First thing that will hit you will be that wonderful smell.

I'm from the countryside. Honestly, you get pretty used to the manure smell.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 23, 2020, 04:04:41 pm
Yes, but you think that gives me the excuse to launch a projectile of bolus onto the restaurant floor? Civilized people make use of the serviette and cover their mouth or excuse themselves and go to the bathroom.
I'm not defending that kind of spitting. But smokers alley spitting behind the bbq joing? Who gives a shit?

Quote
Every country on Earth has smokers, but it's a major quirk in places like Korea and China therefore, smoking is NOT the common factor. It's culture and culture is fallible
You'll get a fair number of spitters amongst smokers in the States. Not Korea-China levels but the occassional loogie.

Not to mention joggers in the park, people playing sports, etc.

Quote
It's culture and culture is fallible
It's a host of potential factors for each individual, culture certainly can be one, but there are others and focusing solely on culture above all others is a mistake. Also I'd call it more of a subculture if you are going to call it culture. There's certainly subcultures within say, the US that will spit that have nothing to do with Korea.

Quote
... still don't feel the need to spit
Congrats. maybe you just aren't as sensitive to certain odors or tastes. I would vomit if I swallowed a moutful of fertilizer saliva. I do agree that location should be a factor and where you choose to spit (i.e. well-tended-to public space vs. stormdrain.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 23, 2020, 04:15:32 pm
There it is again: You are comparing animals to humans. Whatever a dog can do, an ajhossi can do it too. Got it! There is an idea among middle aged and older Korean ladies that men are just like dogs. Perhaps you are also following that logic.
1) A pet is something that is voluntarily owned and whose conduct the owner is responsible for. If you walk your dog and it shits in public, YOU are responsible for it. Where it pees, YOU are responsible for it.

Owning a dog does give you and your dog the right to do whatever you please simply because "it's a dog and it doesn't know any better."

I shouldn't have to put up with your pet shitting and pissing in public. Your pet should piss and shit on your property, not public property. If you think spitting should be banned, then so should pets sitting and pissing in public.

2) The point about the pets is if you are disgusted by one, you should be disgusted by the other. People's PETS doing this. Their pet shit and piss should be kept to them, but instead they feel they are entitled to spread that nastiness on our streets. Why? But one is acceptable because pet dogs are "cute."
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Lazio on December 23, 2020, 10:25:17 pm
1) A pet is something that is voluntarily owned and whose conduct the owner is responsible for. If you walk your dog and it shits in public, YOU are responsible for it. Where it pees, YOU are responsible for it.

Owning a dog does give you and your dog the right to do whatever you please simply because "it's a dog and it doesn't know any better."

I shouldn't have to put up with your pet shitting and pissing in public. Your pet should piss and shit on your property, not public property. If you think spitting should be banned, then so should pets sitting and pissing in public.

2) The point about the pets is if you are disgusted by one, you should be disgusted by the other. People's PETS doing this. Their pet shit and piss should be kept to them, but instead they feel they are entitled to spread that nastiness on our streets. Why? But one is acceptable because pet dogs are "cute."

There are disgusting things that can be helped and there are disgusting things that can't. Babies soiling their diapers is not the same as some drunkards soiling their pants. It's the same stuff but the circumstances make it entirely different.
A dog taking a dump in a park is not the same as a human doing it. A dog licking its genitals in public is not the same as a human doing it. Both are disgusting but why would you equate the two? We are humans for f.cks sake, not animals!

It's a matter of basic manners. Or rather, the lack of it. Something that can, and should be learned. Something that separates us (well, most of us) from all the other creatures.
Do you expect animals to have manners?
There are things that are universally considered bad manners. Like you don't pick your nose, reach into your pants and scratch your balls, fart loudly etc. in public. Spitting is simply a very bad habit that causes disgust and discomfort to others. Especially the obnoxios, shameless way that it is done here.
Don't try very hard. You aren't convincing anyone with your pitiful argument.

btw, my pets aren't shitting anywhere because I have none. But it doesn't bother me when other pets do their business in a public place. As long as the owners pick it up. Which is pretty much a general thing nowadays. Ever seen someone try to pick up their phlegm from the sidewalk?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: JNM on December 24, 2020, 01:43:10 am
My dog was trained to prefer to pee in gravel or sand.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on December 24, 2020, 07:47:46 am
This is not a burning question about Korea, it's about the world. Why do smokers think its okay to throw their cigarette butts everywhere?  It really gets up my nose.

I think we all can agree that spitting in public is disgusting and there is no reason to defend it no matter in which country you are.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Chinguetti on December 24, 2020, 08:06:16 am
Honestly, people who defend dirty habits are most often guilty of doing it themselves and just don't want people telling them that what they're doing is disgusting, lol.

The more staunchly unreasonable they are about it, the more guilty. My dad was absolutely like this, came up with all kinds of excuses for justifying a bad habit.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 24, 2020, 09:40:54 am
There are disgusting things that can be helped and there are disgusting things that can't. Babies soiling their diapers is not the same as some drunkards soiling their pants. It's the same stuff but the circumstances make it entirely different.
A dog taking a dump in a park is not the same as a human doing it. A dog licking its genitals in public is not the same as a human doing it. Both are disgusting but why would you equate the two? We are humans for f.cks sake, not animals!

It's a matter of basic manners. Or rather, the lack of it. Something that can, and should be learned. Something that separates us (well, most of us) from all the other creatures.
Do you expect animals to have manners?
There are things that are universally considered bad manners. Like you don't pick your nose, reach into your pants and scratch your balls, fart loudly etc. in public. Spitting is simply a very bad habit that causes disgust and discomfort to others. Especially the obnoxios, shameless way that it is done here.
Don't try very hard. You aren't convincing anyone with your pitiful argument.

btw, my pets aren't shitting anywhere because I have none. But it doesn't bother me when other pets do their business in a public place. As long as the owners pick it up. Which is pretty much a general thing nowadays. Ever seen someone try to pick up their phlegm from the sidewalk?
Pets should be shitting on their owner's property, not in public. The owner is responsible for the pet. I'm not talking stray dogs, I'm talking pets. Why can't your dog shit on your lawn or pad?

It doesn't bother you because "pets cute, ajeosshis not."

Are pet ownners mopping up their piss?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 24, 2020, 09:43:24 am
Honestly, people who defend dirty habits are most often guilty of doing it themselves and just don't want people telling them that what they're doing is disgusting, lol.

The more staunchly unreasonable they are about it, the more guilty. My dad was absolutely like this, came up with all kinds of excuses for justifying a bad habit.
True, but the same applies to pet owners and their dogs pissing everywhere.

As I said before, there's a difference between openly spitting on the sidewalk vs smokers alley.

Also, what about football pitches and joggers paths?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: 745sticky on December 24, 2020, 09:49:37 am
It doesn't bother you because "pets cute, ajeosshis not."

Another distinction you fail to mention is that pets animal, ajeosshis human.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 24, 2020, 09:52:39 am
Another distinction you fail to mention is that pets animal, ajeosshis human.
Humans have control over where pets shit and piss, yes?

Humans choose to buy pets and assume responsibility for them, yes? This includes their defecation.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: 745sticky on December 24, 2020, 09:58:41 am
Humans have control over where pets shit and piss, yes?
No. Unless you're suggesting that pet owners somehow physically prevent their pets from shitting and pissing.

Humans choose to buy pets and assume responsibility for them, yes? This includes their defecation.
Pretty sure cleaning up after your dog is a pretty common standard.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 24, 2020, 10:02:30 am
No. Unless you're suggesting that pet owners somehow physically prevent their pets from shitting and pissing.
Pretty sure cleaning up after your dog is a pretty common standard.
People mop their dogs' piss?
Pet owners aren't responsible for scooping up poop? They aren't responsible if their pet's pee (or other conduct) damages rental property?

If pet owners have no control over where their pets shit and piss then how come housetraining and litterboxes are a thing?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mister Tim on December 24, 2020, 10:10:39 am
Pets should be shitting on their owner's property, not in public. 

Agreed.

And given the context of this conversation, the logical extension of that is that people should only ever spit on their own property. Once you're out the front door (or the front gate), no spitting. Not on the sidewalk, not in the street, not in the park, not in the alleys behind restaurants.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Chinguetti on December 24, 2020, 10:11:53 am
True, but the same applies to pet owners and their dogs pissing everywhere.

As I said before, there's a difference between openly spitting on the sidewalk vs smokers alley.

Also, what about football pitches and joggers paths?

All equally disgusting, and all equally shamed when people don't follow the rules. I'd definitely put spitting way up higher than dog piss, though, as you can't catch the likes of tuberculosis from dried urine like you can from dried spit. Certain diseases, like tuberculosis, is much higher in countries where people feel the need to constantly spit onto sidewalks.

As others have already said, there's a difference between animals and humans, even if those animals are pets, and humans have regulations that they follow when regarding pets in human living situations. If those rules didn't exist, and if most people didn't follow those rules, it would be a whole lot more filthy. As it is, when you turn a disgusting habit into a norm, it happens a lot more often than it should and in areas where it shouldn't. It wouldn't be a big deal if people spit away from common pedestrian footpaths and down drains. But they don't. I walked past no less than three yellow puddles of spit in my school stairwell this morning. THAT is a problem.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: 745sticky on December 24, 2020, 10:13:07 am
People mop their dogs' piss?
Every animal pisses on things that we would prefer they not piss on. This is because they are animals. We are humans, and so we hold ourselves to higher standards than animals.

Are you suggesting that an ajeosshi is no better than a dog?

Pet owners aren't responsible for scooping up poop?
They are. The majority of them do. The ones who don't are frowned upon heavily.

They aren't responsible if their pet's pee (or other conduct) damages rental property?
If a pet causes damage to another person or their property, the owner can be held liable.

If pet owners have no control over where their pets shit and piss then how come housetraining and litterboxes are a thing?
Although there are quite a lot of them here, cats are not in fact the only type of pet.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Lazio on December 24, 2020, 10:53:48 am

It doesn't bother you because "pets cute, ajeosshis not."

Building your usual strawman and trying to support it with things you made up. I never said what you quoted. Moreover, no one here ever said it!

It doesn't bother me because they're  .uckin animals. Still don't get the difference?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: oglop on December 24, 2020, 11:43:35 am
i saw a pigeon do a poo on the road the other day and i was fcking livid
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: tylerthegloob on December 24, 2020, 11:50:59 am
can anyone give me the tldr of what you guys are arguing about...
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 24, 2020, 11:55:59 am
Agreed.

And given the context of this conversation, the logical extension of that is that people should only ever spit on their own property. Once you're out the front door (or the front gate), no spitting. Not on the sidewalk, not in the street, not in the park, not in the alleys behind restaurants.
I have no problem with this position because it's consistent. If you are against spitting and also against pets pissing and shitting on public grounds, then fine. But if you are fine with one but not the other, then it's just an irrational argument based on cuteness and you aren't applying any kind of logic or consistency.

But if your dog can piss all over the street, then I see no problem with someone spitting.

As others have already said, there's a difference between animals and humans, even if those animals are pets, and humans have regulations that they follow when regarding pets in human living situations. If those rules didn't exist, and if most people didn't follow those rules, it would be a whole lot more filthy. As it is, when you turn a disgusting habit into a norm, it happens a lot more often than it should and in areas where it shouldn't. It wouldn't be a big deal if people spit away from common pedestrian footpaths and down drains. But they don't. I walked past no less than three yellow puddles of spit in my school stairwell this morning. THAT is a problem.
No problem with this, at least there's some level of consistency and understanding. I'd agree that given the spitting on sidewalks and footpaths, spitters have in a sense forfeited any defense they have. At least you're willing to acknowledge that spitting into a drain or in some alley isn't some travesty. I do think the TB thing is bit overblown. No one seems to be shitting themselves in fear over TB when they're drunk in Hongdae at 1230AM in some alley drinking soju and powerade and there's a bunch of smokers there. That being said, it IS a vector and there is a legitimate basis for it, even if it is a small risk, it's just one more thing that adds to reasons for regulation.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: D.L.Orean on December 24, 2020, 12:07:29 pm
I have no problem with this position because it's consistent. If you are against spitting and also against pets pissing and shitting on public grounds, then fine. But if you are fine with one but not the other, then it's just an irrational argument based on cuteness and you aren't applying any kind of logic or consistency.

You are literally the only person who has mentioned "cuteness"
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: 745sticky on December 24, 2020, 12:21:33 pm
can anyone give me the tldr of what you guys are arguing about...

being disgusted by people spitting in public when you're fine with pets shitting/pissing in public is a double standard (according to martino).
(@martino I believe that summarizes your main point accurately, if I'm wrong feel free to correct me)
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 24, 2020, 12:42:01 pm
being disgusted by people spitting in public when you're fine with pets shitting/pissing in public is a double standard (according to martino).
(@martino I believe that summarizes your main point accurately, if I'm wrong feel free to correct me)
Pretty much.

People claim its okay for pets because they're animals, but I'm not talking wild animals, talking trained pets whose owners make a conscious choice to have them shit and piss on public property. Sometimes even on private property.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 24, 2020, 12:46:44 pm
You are literally the only person who has mentioned "cuteness"
It's the reason. Claims about disease (for the most part and with most people) are justifications, not actual reasons.

It's like elites who want to ban smoking in dives and use "employee health". They dont really give a shit about that. They're just using it as justification for their legislation based on personal preference and need to control.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: tylerthegloob on December 24, 2020, 12:47:40 pm
i'm not sure how you can equate the control you have over whether or not you yourself spit somewhere with the control you have over when and where your pet decides to pee. my intuition is that it's obvious that any person has more control over oneself than they do over any other thing/person/animal, but maaaaaaan this is NOT the fish i'm trying to fry on christmas eve
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 24, 2020, 01:10:58 pm
i'm not sure how you can equate the control you have over whether or not you yourself spit somewhere with the control you have over when and where your pet decides to pee. my intuition is that it's obvious that any person has more control over oneself than they do over any other thing/person/animal, but maaaaaaan this is NOT the fish i'm trying to fry on christmas eve
The pet owner has control over:
1) Whether or not to purchase a pet in the first place.
2) Where to house that pet
3) Whether to have that pet piss and shit on their property or on public property

Seems like pet owners have a lot of control to me. They chose to buy a pet. They chose to house it in a place where they didn't have their own yard or whatever, they chose to not use pee pads and instead have their dog piss and shit in public.

Pretty f*ing disgusting and selfish if you ask me.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: bigfishlittlefish on December 24, 2020, 01:20:49 pm
Dude, we get it. You like to smoke, you like to spit, you're an ajeossi that isn't cute.

No amount of your whataboutisms will make us think that's OK, leave the keyboard and go for a smoke.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: stoat on December 24, 2020, 01:25:55 pm
The pet owner has control over:
1) Whether or not to purchase a pet in the first place.
2) Where to house that pet
3) Whether to have that pet piss and shit on their property or on public property

Seems like pet owners have a lot of control to me. They chose to buy a pet. They chose to house it in a place where they didn't have their own yard or whatever, they chose to not use pee pads and instead have their dog piss and shit in public.

Pretty f*ing disgusting and selfish if you ask me.

Owners should clear up dog number twos I think we can all agree on that. Re dog number ones, for most dogs the highlight of their day is to go for a walk and mark their territory with their urine so it'd be pretty cruel to keep a dog permanently in the house/back yard . It might be selfish towards other people but it's definitely putting the dog's best interests first. Most people who don't own dogs probably accept this very minor annoyance on their streets, so that people in towns/cities can have the freedom to keep a dog in a decent mental condition.  Remember dogs are often lonely people's only friend
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 24, 2020, 01:26:36 pm
Dude, we get it. You like to smoke, you like to spit, you're an ajeossi that isn't cute.

No amount of your whataboutisms will make us think that's OK, leave the keyboard and go for a smoke.
Can you admit that your belief that it isn't "ok" is irrational and that if you are fine with pets pissing and shitting in public, you're a total hypocrite and have no logical basis for your complaint?

If you read what I wrote carefully, you'd see that I wasn't 100% okay with people smoking.

Anyways, how do you feel about joggers or footballers spitting back home? Because you'd basically have to call anyone who plays organized professional sports an uncivilized barbarian because guess what? They all spit constantly.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 24, 2020, 01:27:07 pm
Owners should clear up dog number twos I think we can all agree on that. Re dog number ones, for most dogs the highlight of their day is to go for a walk and mark their territory with their urine so it'd be pretty cruel to keep a dog permanently in the house/back yard . It might be selfish towards other people but it's definitely putting the dog's best interests first. Most people who don't own dogs probably accept this very minor annoyance on their streets, so that people in towns/cities can have the freedom to keep a dog in a decent mental condition.  Remember dogs are often lonely people's only friend
Then don't buy a damn dog if it's cruel to keep it in a small back yard or inside. A pet is a responsibility, not a toy.  Sorry city people, dogs aren't a toy. Sorry, but if you are such an emotional wreck and for whatever damn reason you NEED a dog (not counting disability/emotional support animals), then the problem is with you. You're the one who needs to get their shit together and find out why you need a dog to fill a void to the point that you will buy one even though you don't have the appropriate facilities to keep one and then outsource its filth onto public streets for everyone else to deal with.

You call it a minor annoyance, spitting should be viewed the same way if you're rational and consistent. But seems like most people here aren't. So far only Mister Tim and to some extent, Chinguetti have been able to understand that yeah, it sort of is a bit hypocritical to bitch and moan about spitters but be fine with pet dogs pissing everywhere.

Stop buying dogs. Get a damn cat or a guinea pig. Problem f*ing solved.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: bigfishlittlefish on December 24, 2020, 01:44:52 pm
Can you admit that your belief that it isn't "ok" is irrational and that if you are fine with pets pissing and shitting in public, you're a total hypocrite and have no logical basis for your complaint?

If you read what I wrote carefully, you'd see that I wasn't 100% okay with people smoking.

Anyways, how do you feel about joggers or footballers spitting back home? Because you'd basically have to call anyone who plays organized professional sports an uncivilized barbarian because guess what? They all spit constantly.

No, I will not admit that my belief is irrational.  I think it is perfectly rational not to like people spitting in public places.  I am also well aware that people can play football or go jogging in any country so am not entirely sure what you are arguing about there.  But as a former member of a jogging club both here and in other countries, I am pleased to say there was very little to no spitting.  But I guess Paula Radcliffe 'back home' in the 2005 London marathon will always be remembered for her pitstop.

As I said, if you choose to spit when you smoke, that is your choice, but you will be hard pressed finding people that will excuse you due to you giving other examples.  When I smoke, I choose not to spit, many will think I'm an uncivilised barbarian for smoking, I'm not going to try and give them other examples of bad things to try and make myself seem better.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: stoat on December 24, 2020, 01:54:39 pm
Then don't buy a damn dog if it's cruel to keep it in a small back yard or inside. A pet is a responsibility, not a toy.  Sorry city people, dogs aren't a toy. Sorry, but if you are such an emotional wreck and for whatever damn reason you NEED a dog (not counting disability/emotional support animals), then the problem is with you. You're the one who needs to get their shit together and find out why you need a dog to fill a void to the point that you will buy one even though you don't have the appropriate facilities to keep one and then outsource its filth onto public streets for everyone else to deal with.

You call it a minor annoyance, spitting should be viewed the same way if you're rational and consistent. But seems like most people here aren't. So far only Mister Tim and to some extent, Chinguetti have been able to understand that yeah, it sort of is a bit hypocritical to bitch and moan about spitters but be fine with pet dogs pissing everywhere.

Stop buying dogs. Get a damn cat or a guinea pig. Problem f*ing solved.

As I said, most people are prepared to put up with very minor inconveniences to enable others to have certain freedoms. I imagine you're the kind of person who would be in favour of stopping people  travelling with little kids on aeroplanes. They don't have to have kids or choose to travel abroad with them so why should it annoy other passengers etc. 

As for spitting, you could make a medical case to be tolerant about it but I think you'd be pushed to make a case that you're limiting someone's freedom to live the life they choose, by banning it. 
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: fka on December 24, 2020, 01:55:54 pm
The hilarious thing about this is that DeMartino is obviously disgusted by animals urinating and defecating in public, but has spent half the thread making justifications for Korean spitting habits and then claiming that if you're not equally disgusted by both, you're a hypocrite.

I think it's clear that he knows spitting in the uniquely Korean way that we've all witnessed thousands of times is wrong, but can't let go of the defend-Korea-at-all-costs impulse, so he tried to derail the argument by pretending we were actually talking about farmers spitting in their own fields, or a jogger who inhales a bug, or someone discreetly shooting a bit of spit into a dark alley. If you have to work that hard to avoid the real topic of conversation, your argument is probably not a very good one.

Waygook.org, 2024...

Joe Teacher: I live on a street in Seoul covered in dog feces and puddles of urine. I see pet owners letting their dogs do their business there all day long, and nobody cleans it up, nobody calls out this profoundly antisocial behavior. It's a shame that Korean culture is one of few in the world where this is acceptable, particularly now that we're in the middle of a pandemic caused by a virus whose main vector of transmission is dog waste...

DeMartino: Oh my god, I cannot believe how irrational you are. Can you just admit that you don't like dogs because you think cats are cuter? If a wolf pees against a tree in the middle of a forest, who cares? This isn't about public health, this is about an authoritarian desire to control nature by culling the wolf population. Seriously, you're upset about a dingo having a bowel movement behind a bush in the outback? Get some perspective, people.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: tylerthegloob on December 24, 2020, 02:17:25 pm
Then don't buy a damn dog if it's cruel to keep it in a small back yard or inside.

you've set up a false dichotomy: (1) own enough land to let a pet roam free or (2) don't own a pet. there is the obvious (3) own a pet and take it to dog parks or other public places where pets are allowed to roam.

and as for the control argument... a dog owners choice to buy a dog does not necessarily lead to peeing in public (you've mentioned pee pads), so it's irrelevant to the discussion. dog owners have less control over their dogs (at any given time) than spitters do over their own mouths. that's why we can hold spitters more responsible for their public spitting than dog owners for dogs peeing in public.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 24, 2020, 02:18:35 pm
No, I will not admit that my belief is irrational.  I think it is perfectly rational not to like people spitting in public places. 
It is if you are consistent about similar things. If you aren't consistent then it's about as rational as saying "my music is better than your music." You aren't basing it off of reason, but emotion.

Quote
I am also well aware that people can play football or go jogging in any country so am not entirely sure what you are arguing about there.  But as a former member of a jogging club both here and in other countries, I am pleased to say there was very little to no spitting.
BBC seems to disagree with you. Once again "We don't do behavior X back home" (which in actuality is often done) strikes again.
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-13134283

Heck, our cross country coach back home told everyone to spit and not swallow or hold it in.

Quote
I'm not going to try and give them other examples of bad things to try and make myself seem better.
It's about applying consistent rational standards, not relying on base emotions to dictate what is right and wrong. Lets create a system for regulating public expectoration and defecation of citizens and pets. I'm all for it, but if we're going to have a system, we have to apply consistent principles.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 24, 2020, 02:20:46 pm
As I said, most people are prepared to put up with very minor inconveniences to enable others to have certain freedoms. I imagine you're the kind of person who would be in favour of stopping people  travelling with little kids on aeroplanes. They don't have to have kids or choose to travel abroad with them so why should it annoy other passengers etc. 

As for spitting, you could make a medical case to be tolerant about it but I think you'd be pushed to make a case that you're limiting someone's freedom to live the life they choose, by banning it.
I say let people spit in dingy alleys and the like or into a bush or down a drain and let dogs do what they do.

But if you're going to go after me, I'm going to go after your f*ing mutt or something else you do. You're not the f*ing king. You want to regulate something I do? Fine, I'm going to try to regulate something you do.

Or we could let bygones be bygones and grudgingly tolerate (or in my case, genuinely not give a shit) things like that and live with fewer regulations.

Your choice.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 24, 2020, 02:22:56 pm
or someone discreetly shooting a bit of spit into a dark alley. If you have to work that hard to avoid the real topic of conversation, your argument is probably not a very good one.
Too bad you didn't read what I wrote, otherwise you would have seen that this has been my position from the getgo and that more than that I find too much. But if you're going to come in my direction, I'll go back in yours. This isn't YOU up here who gets to make rules and me who has to eat them. There's give and take in all of this.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: OnNut81 on December 24, 2020, 02:24:38 pm
Can you admit that your belief that it isn't "ok" is irrational and that if you are fine with pets pissing and shitting in public, you're a total hypocrite and have no logical basis for your complaint?


It's not my week of Martino sentry duty, so I just have one quick question.  Every time this issue of horking on the sidewalk, elevators, ATM booths and the subway platforms comes up DMart always makes the above claim; how it's hypocritical to be ok with one and not the the other.  However, for the life of me I can't seem to find on any of the threads where someone actually made the above statement.  Well, I can find numerous instances of Martino making the statement. But what set him off was that people were ok with pets pissing and shitting in elevators and sidewalks and building foyers, but had a problem with people spitting in said places.  I can't find the post where someone made that assertion.  It's almost like he made a claim, attributed it to the board at large, and is now arguing against his own declaration. 

So, my question, obviously, is why do Koreans hate clean floors so much?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: bigfishlittlefish on December 24, 2020, 02:28:46 pm
"We don't do behavior X back home"

Again, I'm sorry my post does not meet your narrative.  I clearly said that both here, and other countries, jogging groups I have been in have had very little spitting. 

Your need to defend Korea doesn't work this time, I have not made it a Korea Vs the world thing.   I have clearly said that you aren't likely to find anyone here, no matter what justification you put forward who will agree that spitting in the street whilst having a smoke is a good thing.

If you are able to find other posters who agree, good for you.  If you are not, well, I'll ignore this until the thread "Where are the best places to visit in Jeju" or similar turns into you trying to justify it again.

Merry Christmas, I'll be spending mine with good whiskey, some lovely smokes and a spit free environment.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 24, 2020, 02:29:29 pm
you've set up a false dichotomy: (1) own enough land to let a pet roam free or (2) don't own a pet. there is the obvious (3) own a pet and take it to dog parks or other public places where pets are allowed to roam.

and as for the control argument... a dog owners choice to buy a dog does not necessarily lead to peeing in public (you've mentioned pee pads), so it's irrelevant to the discussion. dog owners have less control over their dogs (at any given time) than spitters do over their own mouths. that's why we can hold spitters more responsible for their public spitting than dog owners for dogs peeing in public.
I have no problem with public dog parks, but if the dog pisses or shits between your house and your park, then their owner should be fined, same as a spitter. You don't need a damn dog. If you can't control it, then you shouldn't own it. Dog owners have made a series of conscious decisions that have led to the point of their dog shitting and pissing on public property. This could have been stopped by 1) Not buying a damn dog. 2) Keeping their damn dog inside or on their property. 3) Training their dog not to shit or piss in public. 4) Taking sanitizers and a mop to clean after their pet's piss along with them on a walk.   

Also spitting, at times, can be an involuntary reflex or at the very least compete with another reflex (personally in my case, it's running up against my gag reflex).
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: 745sticky on December 24, 2020, 02:30:09 pm
It's not my week of Martino sentry duty,

Hear that, guys? OnNut is on the case :)
Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night!
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 24, 2020, 02:34:21 pm
Again, I'm sorry my post does not meet your narrative.  I clearly said that both here, and other countries, jogging groups I have been in have had very little spitting. 
Clearly though, you are simply supplying an anecdote, because it appears that overall such groups do engage in a lot of spitting, otherwise it wouldn't be a global news item.

Quote
   I have clearly said that you aren't likely to find anyone here, no matter what justification you put forward who will agree that spitting in the street whilst having a smoke is a good thing.
I don't think it's a good thing either. I simply said that people should have a consistent regard for such expectorations and defecations. Most don't seem to. For them, it simply is "one I think is cute, the other I don't."


It's not my week of Martino sentry duty, so I just have one quick question.  Every time this issue of horking on the sidewalk, elevators, ATM booths and the subway platforms comes up DMart always makes the above claim; how it's hypocritical to be ok with one and not the the other.  However, for the life of me I can't seem to find on any of the threads where someone actually made the above statement.  Well, I can find numerous instances of Martino making the statement. But what set him off was that people were ok with pets pissing and shitting in elevators and sidewalks and building foyers, but had a problem with people spitting in said places.  I can't find the post where someone made that assertion.  It's almost like he made a claim, attributed it to the board at large, and is now arguing against his own declaration. 
It is implied that people are okay with it given the various comments we've seen regarding pets as well as the lack of complaint about pets peeing and pooping on public streets. A phenomenon every bit as common as spitting but seems to not draw the same amount of ire, despite both being under the complete control of human beings.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: D.L.Orean on December 24, 2020, 02:36:21 pm
Clearly though, you are simply supplying an anecdote, because it appears that overall such groups do engage in a lot of spitting, otherwise it wouldn't be a global news item.
I don't think it's a good thing either. I simply said that people should have a consistent regard for such expectorations and defecations. Most don't seem to. For them, it simply is "one I think is cute, the other I don't."

Nobody has said this
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: OnNut81 on December 24, 2020, 02:42:08 pm
Hear that, guys? OnNut is on the case :)
Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night!

I believe you missed the NOT part.  I just needed to ask one question as I was very curious.  Martino has above confirmed that he has been aggressively making a stance based on an assumption.  He just made it up.  Again.  Merry Christmas!
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: 745sticky on December 24, 2020, 02:47:18 pm
For them, it simply is "one I think is cute, the other I don't."
Who is this mysterious "them", and how are they relevant to this conversation?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: stoat on December 24, 2020, 02:50:28 pm
I say let people spit in dingy alleys and the like or into a bush or down a drain and let dogs do what they do.

But if you're going to go after me, I'm going to go after your f*ing mutt or something else you do. You're not the f*ing king. You want to regulate something I do? Fine, I'm going to try to regulate something you do.

Or we could let bygones be bygones and grudgingly tolerate (or in my case, genuinely not give a shit) things like that and live with fewer regulations.

Your choice.

Sure, I'm not in favour of banning spitting by law, though I do think you could make a stronger case for making it socially unacceptable. 
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 24, 2020, 03:06:07 pm
Nobody has said this
What reason then? Please spare me "disease."
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: D.L.Orean on December 24, 2020, 03:09:43 pm
What reason then? Please spare me "disease."

The reason for what? What do you think people are arguing?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: oglop on December 24, 2020, 03:38:56 pm
if nothing else, spitting  is just minging

farting near somebody else is minging, seeing spit on the floor is minging/spitting near someone is minging, throwing litter on the floor is minging, sneezing without covering your mouth is minging, etc, etc. these are just behaviours that most people think is gross and rude

pre-empt: yes i know dogs may sneeze in public without covering their mouth or fart. no, i don't think this is the same as people doing it (or that it's the owner's fault)
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: fka on December 26, 2020, 04:46:17 pm
Going back to the original topic, it's not so much a question, but the "Can't do" attitude of some Korean businesses can really pull the rug from under you sometimes.

 I'm used to minor displays of this, i.e

"Can I have a little milk to add to the tea?"
 "No."
 "Really?"
"There is no milk."
"Don't you sell lattes and cappuccinos? I can see a caton of milk there..."
"It's not possible."

But today I experienced the most shocking incidence of this so far. I kid you not... a branch of the Casa Mia furniture store turned down an ₩850,000 sale because my building doesn't have an elevator and the delivery guys won't take a sofa frame to the 5th floor. They insisted on a ladder car but it's impossible in my building - the only street-facing windows are tiny. In the two years I've lived here, we've managed to get a bed, sofa, refrigerator, tall bookcase,  washing machine and tv cabinet into the apartment without a ladder car. Yet the two employees dealing with me treated this claim with extreme skepticism and eventually told me that without an elevator or ladder car, they had to forgo an ₩850,000 sale. Unbelievable.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: JNM on December 26, 2020, 07:03:26 pm
... eventually told me that without an elevator or ladder car, they had to forgo an ₩850,000 sale. Unbelievable.


The staff can only do what they are authorized. That is the root of the issue.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: oglop on December 26, 2020, 07:32:09 pm
i quite like the casa mia store otherwise. it's the only korean furniture store i've been in where i don't immediately think "everything here is both insanely expensive and also completely rank"
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on December 26, 2020, 07:32:09 pm
I must admit the term I heard more than I care to remember, 'It's impossible', for the most basic logical thing really got to me. I guess it is because of the 'top down' everything in Korea. No one was allowed to show initiative. That must be so soul destroying for those Koreans who want to think outside the box.

Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: fka on December 26, 2020, 07:34:36 pm
Quote
The staff can only do what they are authorized. That is the root of the issue.

Oh, I know. I could be wrong here, but I suspect that the company uses a third-party contractor for deliveries, who set their own policy, and Casa Mia was simply going by what was written in the rulebook. But I couldn't believe that nobody was willing to make a phone call and see if a compromise could be reached in order to make a sale. I also suggested that they could deliver it to the ground floor, and I'd take it up the stairs with a friend, if they gave me a discount. They said no because the sofa was already on sale. Another thing that was impossible.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Aristocrat on December 27, 2020, 10:55:58 am
Going back to the original topic, it's not so much a question, but the "Can't do" attitude of some Korean businesses can really pull the rug from under you sometimes.

 I'm used to minor displays of this, i.e

"Can I have a little milk to add to the tea?"
 "No."
 "Really?"
"There is no milk."
"Don't you sell lattes and cappuccinos? I can see a caton of milk there..."
"It's not possible."

But today I experienced the most shocking incidence of this so far. I kid you not... a branch of the Casa Mia furniture store turned down an ₩850,000 sale because my building doesn't have an elevator and the delivery guys won't take a sofa frame to the 5th floor. They insisted on a ladder car but it's impossible in my building - the only street-facing windows are tiny. In the two years I've lived here, we've managed to get a bed, sofa, refrigerator, tall bookcase,  washing machine and tv cabinet into the apartment without a ladder car. Yet the two employees dealing with me treated this claim with extreme skepticism and eventually told me that without an elevator or ladder car, they had to forgo an ₩850,000 sale. Unbelievable.


My favourite was going to Baskin Robbins. They'd always stacked the ice-cream flavours from top to bottom. So, if you ordered a tub, you'd get flavour 1 at the bottom, 2nd in the middle and flavour 3 on the top. Recently, they'd changed it to stack all flavour sideways. I guess some people like this, I don't.

I asked the server to not stack it side to side but top to bottom. You guessed it... no, impossible. Lady, I'm not asking for a favour or a freebie, just stack the flavours I'm paying for from top to bottom. Like a robot struggling to compute, she just repeats, impossible. Her manager sees the issue and has to come over and treat a fully functioning adult like a damn robot by reprograming it to fulfil such a simple request/telling her to stack the damn ice-cream how I asked.

Aside from critical thinking and creativity that is somewhat discouraged in Korean education, a Japanese guy was discussing how, at a cultural level, the Japanese are generally a very risk averse people. Perhaps a similar hypothesis can be used to explain this behaviour in Korea; people don't want to risk not following protocol to the letter.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: fka on December 27, 2020, 01:08:39 pm
My perennial favorite is this one:

*At the cafe counter, having just spied that the Americano cups are enormous and likely to result in a weak, watery coffee*

"Can I have a smaller cup?"

"Americano is this size."

"Yes, I know. Can you give me a smaller cup?"

"No, it's not possible."

"How about this size? You can't put two espresso shots into this cup and fill it with water?"

"I'm sorry, it's not possible."



Or when dining with someone with celiac disease, in a virtually empty restaurant where the chef is relatively unburdened:



"Do you coat your fries in flour?"

"No. Only potato. Wait. Maybe. Yes, flour. Wait, let me ask the chef... Yes, we use flour with the fries."

"Okay, one of us has a gluten allergy. Is it possible to make them without the flour?"

*I peer into the kitchen and see uncoated raw potatoes next to the deep fryer.*

"Let me check with the chef... No, it's not possible."

"You can't do it for someone with an allergy? You just deduct one ingredient?"

"Sorry, it's not possible."
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: VanIslander on December 27, 2020, 02:58:09 pm
Koreans can be so de rigueur.

But Westerners can too: we go bat crazy when someone opens an umbrella inside. No matter how big the room, no matter how uncrowded or distant the next human may be, it is met with an immediate condemnation. "It could poke someone's out" doesn't explain the degree of reaction in all contexts.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: oglop on December 28, 2020, 10:48:26 am
right, so now we're arguing about how to put  ice cream in a tub

this is some next level inanity shit
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: CO2 on December 28, 2020, 01:52:02 pm
Slow day at work.

EDIT: Shit, he fixed it. Dmart quoted it, though. heh
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Kyndo on December 28, 2020, 02:21:09 pm
Well, this bit of the conversation has been fun, but I think we've milked it for all it's worth.
I'm going to move parts of this thread to somewhere appropriate (https://miro.medium.com/max/696/1*_26e019H5VwKO4qJd-Zo6A.gif), so that the rest of us can go back to answering burning questions or whatever.
Apologies in advance for the collateral culling!
:smiley:
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: tylerthegloob on December 28, 2020, 02:25:54 pm
why do waegs in korea generally lean too heavy one way or the other re: korea (its gotta be the worst or the best)? it seems like everyone has a pretty strong opinion one way or another. maybe its the same in expat communities everywhere (but i wouldnt know)
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 28, 2020, 02:28:03 pm
You're now resorting to my supposed obsession with brand names (something I've never expressed nor do I agree with) as some kind of possible reason for me having the audacity of asking to STACK A DAMN ICE-CREAM FROM TOP TO BOTTOM; an act requiring no more or less effort than stacking it sideways and no more or less ice-cream. Guess who didn't have a problem with my request? Every other Baskin Robbin I've been to in Korea and I like ice-cream, so I've been to quite a few. If I was a problem customer I'd be posting a new story at least once a week, what's your proof other than the "Oh, Aristocrat likes expensive clothes and wear perfume" joke which is just that... a joke.
Dude, own it. You're Aristocrat. You DO demand a certain level and expectation. Don't apologize for it. You're demanding and difficult as a customer. You're also probably right and your money talks. They may have a good explanation or reason, but that's irrelevant to you. You want it done this way. Make it happen.

But don't try them "I'm easy going and whatever" thing one minute and then be a stickler the next. If you're going to go off on them being inflexible, maybe you should be flexible about them stacking it horizontally. Like there's a point where both you and them could be really stubborn.  You can't say "It's no big deal for them to change it" and then treat them not changing it as a big deal. Either it's a big deal both ways or it isn't. If it's not a big deal for them, it shouldn't be a big deal to you.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 28, 2020, 02:33:47 pm
I've said it before and I'll say it again- Too often the average foreigner dining outing, particularly amongst more casual friend groups consists of these relevant elements

1) Not being able to decide on a restaurant because someone is a vegan/gluten-free/etc.
2) A bunch of customization requests, some bordering on absurd
2A) Sanctimonious lecture/Unsolicited tutorial on food request X, usually by person from Item 1.
3) Delays in receiving food and waiting to start because inevitably one of those got screwed up
4) 20 minutes fiddling with the bill because everyone got strange crap and someone always chintzes
5) Befuddlement as to why a negative dining experience occurred. No acknowledgment whatsoever that anyone's choices contributed to that outcome.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: CO2 on December 28, 2020, 02:35:31 pm
I still don't get why anyone would care what ice cream goes in in what order. It's all future poo.

It'd be like taking your books to a friend's house and demanding they be transported like this
(https://previews.123rf.com/images/olegdudko/olegdudko1710/olegdudko171000021/88421908-books-leaning-on-each-other-.jpg)

rather than like this
(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/cdba954f-a7f5-417a-9337-8b719326f6be/dcaf95j-b3503a89-adad-42e4-9999-87a60ff0b910.png/v1/fill/w_1024,h_765,strp/freebie_stacked_books_png_overlay_by_lewis4721_dcaf95j-fullview.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOiIsImlzcyI6InVybjphcHA6Iiwib2JqIjpbW3siaGVpZ2h0IjoiPD03NjUiLCJwYXRoIjoiXC9mXC9jZGJhOTU0Zi1hN2Y1LTQxN2EtOTMzNy04YjcxOTMyNmY2YmVcL2RjYWY5NWotYjM1MDNhODktYWRhZC00MmU0LTk5OTktODdhNjBmZjBiOTEwLnBuZyIsIndpZHRoIjoiPD0xMDI0In1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmltYWdlLm9wZXJhdGlvbnMiXX0.LKiQ5TGTwShC6rQ1GYAvWznsiZRfacEhCiqAeF5CSO0)

Does this really matter? haha
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: OnNut81 on December 28, 2020, 02:49:39 pm
I've said it before and I'll say it again- Too often the average foreigner dining outing, particularly amongst more casual friend groups consists of these relevant elements

1) Not being able to decide on a restaurant because someone is a vegan/gluten-free/etc.
2) A bunch of customization requests, some bordering on absurd
2A) Sanctimonious lecture/Unsolicited tutorial on food request X, usually by person from Item 1.
3) Delays in receiving food and waiting to start because inevitably one of those got screwed up
4) 20 minutes fiddling with the bill because everyone got strange crap and someone always chintzes
5) Befuddlement as to why a negative dining experience occurred. No acknowledgment whatsoever that anyone's choices contributed to that outcome.

You've made up a lot of fabrications before.  Saying it again doesn't make it any more true.  Obviously the meal that you described above is a rarity.  You should give the foreign community a little more credit for the ability to function as adults.  You need to stop imagining the worst case scenario and then applying it en masse to the community at large.  It's delusional. 
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: bigfishlittlefish on December 28, 2020, 02:50:55 pm
I've said it before and I'll say it again- Too often the average foreigner dining outing, particularly amongst more casual friend groups consists of these relevant elements

1) Not being able to decide on a restaurant because someone is a vegan/gluten-free/etc.
2) A bunch of customization requests, some bordering on absurd
2A) Sanctimonious lecture/Unsolicited tutorial on food request X, usually by person from Item 1.
3) Delays in receiving food and waiting to start because inevitably one of those got screwed up
4) 20 minutes fiddling with the bill because everyone got strange crap and someone always chintzes
5) Befuddlement as to why a negative dining experience occurred. No acknowledgment whatsoever that anyone's choices contributed to that outcome.

I'm calling bull. Average foreigner dining experience is cheap as hell samgyeopsal and gallons of cass.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 28, 2020, 03:55:00 pm
I'm calling bull. Average foreigner dining experience is cheap as hell samgyeopsal and gallons of cass.
Depends on the crowd. There's definitely people who keep it simple. There's also the crowd that's like herding cats.

But yeah, majority of the time it's pretty easy- BBQ n beer or some soj. 
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 28, 2020, 04:00:20 pm
You've made up a lot of fabrications before.  Saying it again doesn't make it any more true.  Obviously the meal that you described above is a rarity.  You should give the foreign community a little more credit for the ability to function as adults.  You need to stop imagining the worst case scenario and then applying it en masse to the community at large.  It's delusional.
The first time I wrote about it pretty much everyone agreed and said they had similar experiences at some point.

I'll go with the initial response before you started having personal issues with me.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Aristocrat on December 28, 2020, 05:03:18 pm
I still don't get why anyone would care what ice cream goes in in what order. It's all future poo.

Does this really matter? haha

Ice-cream or a big slab of chocolate is something I'll treat myself to on Fridays, particularly after a shitty week. You guys have your beer, I have my chocolate, cakes and ice-cream.

First time I bought some they offered 3 flavours, I chose three, with toppings and they stacked it from top to bottom, with toppings between each layer. Loved it.
Following occasions I didn't even have to ask, they just served it that way. One day, I noticed they changed it to serving sideways, only realized when I got home. Next time, I asked them to stack the way I like it, no idea why I like it this way
,I guess it's nice to work through the flavours instead of having them all mushed together. Anyways, if I'm paying W7000 for the tub, I don't have to explain.
They obliged, no problem. It was only one server on one occasion who gave the "impossible" and I think she was new. I didn't have to raise my voice or anything, the manager was near and intervened before anything evolved into a scene.

Martin will be glad to know that I no longer eat Baskin Robbins, at least in Korea. About 2yrs ago I learned that it's not halal. I just gorge on chocolate now or make my own, peppermint crisp tart, cookies and biscuits.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: OnNut81 on December 29, 2020, 07:55:44 am
The first time I wrote about it pretty much everyone agreed and said they had similar experiences at some point.

I'll go with the initial response before you started having personal issues with me.

Two minutes for deflecting!  What does you taking things personally have to do with the substance at hand.  You gave an example of a typical foreign meal at a restaurant that you have now acknowledged isn't the norm.  Yet, you had no problem applying your example as the standard for foreigner meals in Korea.  Just because everyone can recall a meal like that doesn't make it typical.  Everyone who ever went out on a group meal back home in high school or uni will be familiar with that scenario.  Most people will have moved on and will dine out with people they are familiar with.  Often referred to as friends.  The only people that continue to go out in groups of strangers are those rare breed that enjoy being the voice of authority among newbies.  And we've all met that kind of person at some point as well.  Doesn't make them the average foreigner.  That's your tried and true method.  Make up or refer to an exceptional circumstance, and then just paint the whole group with that brush. 
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 29, 2020, 10:35:02 am
Two minutes for deflecting!  What does you taking things personally have to do with the substance at hand.  You gave an example of a typical foreign meal at a restaurant that you have now acknowledged isn't the norm.  Yet, you had no problem applying your example as the standard for foreigner meals in Korea.  Just because everyone can recall a meal like that doesn't make it typical.  Everyone who ever went out on a group meal back home in high school or uni will be familiar with that scenario.  Most people will have moved on and will dine out with people they are familiar with.  Often referred to as friends.  The only people that continue to go out in groups of strangers are those rare breed that enjoy being the voice of authority among newbies.  And we've all met that kind of person at some point as well.  Doesn't make them the average foreigner.  That's your tried and true method.  Make up or refer to an exceptional circumstance, and then just paint the whole group with that brush. 
Youre right it's not average. I worded it poorly. I was going for "Too often a not unusual.." It was written poorly. Average foreigner dining experience is you and 2-3 friends at wherever.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: 745sticky on December 29, 2020, 10:54:44 am
Well, this bit of the conversation has been fun, but I think we've milked it for all it's worth.
I'm going to move parts of this thread to somewhere appropriate (https://miro.medium.com/max/696/1*_26e019H5VwKO4qJd-Zo6A.gif), so that the rest of us can go back to answering burning questions or whatever.
Apologies in advance for the collateral culling!
:smiley:
This is the second time you've got me with this. ****


why do waegs in korea generally lean too heavy one way or the other re: korea (its gotta be the worst or the best)? it seems like everyone has a pretty strong opinion one way or another. maybe its the same in expat communities everywhere (but i wouldnt know)
cmon tyler, we live in the age of clickbait. you know how this stuff works
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr C on December 29, 2020, 12:18:49 pm
Youre right it's not average. I worded it poorly. I was going for "Too often a not unusual.." It was written poorly. Average foreigner dining experience is you and 2-3 friends at wherever.

Clearly not true.  It was the crux of your argument that this is standard  foreigner crap.  It is the entirety of what you are positing in the argument.   Just admit you're full of BS.  Sheesh.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 29, 2020, 01:34:06 pm
Clearly not true.  It was the crux of your argument that this is standard  foreigner crap.  It is the entirety of what you are positing in the argument.   Just admit you're full of BS.  Sheesh.
No, the crux of my argument is that there are often alternative explanations or good reasons for why some merchants refuse to honor requests. My point about "foreigner dining experience" was to link the myriad diet fads and customization requests prevalent amongst a more hipster foreigner subset (say what you will about the Seoul Pub/Old Town crowd, they aren't picky eaters generally) to increased likelihood of negative dining outcomes.

The primary argument was over perceived Korean intransigence at fulfilling certain requests and why this is so.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: 745sticky on December 29, 2020, 02:30:16 pm
No, the crux of my argument is that there are often alternative explanations or good reasons for why some merchants refuse to honor requests. My point about "foreigner dining experience" was to link the myriad diet fads and customization requests prevalent amongst a more hipster foreigner subset (say what you will about the Seoul Pub/Old Town crowd, they aren't picky eaters generally) to increased likelihood of negative dining outcomes.

The primary argument was over perceived Korean intransigence at fulfilling certain requests and why this is so.
Eh. I'd imagine that the hipster foreigner subset probably dines at restaurants that cater to them. Either way, I can't see what they have to do with the examples mentioned so far in this thread. Getting your coffee in a smaller cup shouldn't be a back-breaking issue, and any restaurant should be prepared to make slight accommodations for an allergy. I also doubt these hipster foreigners are hitting up Baskin Robbins.



Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 29, 2020, 03:03:18 pm
Eh. I'd imagine that the hipster foreigner subset probably dines at restaurants that cater to them. Either way, I can't see what they have to do with the examples mentioned so far in this thread. Getting your coffee in a smaller cup shouldn't be a back-breaking issue, and any restaurant should be prepared to make slight accommodations for an allergy. I also doubt these hipster foreigners are hitting up Baskin Robbins.
Fair enough. I wouldn't say fka or Aristocrat are hipsters, but they definitely give off a vibe of being a more...specificity focused customer. The kind of customer that's constantly evaluating things.

Like I said, I would probably do all of those things myself, but I'm not going to instantly condemn the worker and the culture of their ethnicity at the drop of a hat either. We don't know what the person is thinking and for fka and Aristrocrat to leap to harsh conclusions and to start blaming culture I think is a bit rash. Isn't that a bit knobish as well?

My general reaction to this wouldn't be to declare the poor peon behind the counter to be a fool and to then blast their ethnicity and culture. That seems a bit...well...dickis h. My general reaction would be to wonder what bureaucratic-corporatist calamity or customer scuzziness resulted in this.

It's like being denied the bathroom. When it happens you think the employee is a worm and then you might blast their culture, but before you do, you should maybe ask if there was a previous customer who left errant feces or decided to OD.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: CO2 on December 29, 2020, 03:05:39 pm
It's like being denied the bathroom.

Honestly, if you're not a customer, GTFO, in my view.

You contribute to use, wear/tear and cleaning to the facilities. Buy something.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: fka on December 29, 2020, 03:06:16 pm
Keep in mind that Martino's most impassioned outburst on the subject of hipster foreigners and their food fads was prompted by my mentionIng a Korean who tested positive for celiac disease after multiple consultations with a gastroenterologist.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: D.L.Orean on December 29, 2020, 03:10:25 pm
Honestly, if you're not a customer, GTFO, in my view.

You contribute to use, wear/tear and cleaning to the facilities. Buy something.

I got the impression he was talking about a paying customer being refused access to a bathroom
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: oglop on December 29, 2020, 03:17:24 pm
Honestly, if you're not a customer, GTFO, in my view.

You contribute to use, wear/tear and cleaning to the facilities. Buy something.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O5RVsmxqiA#t=2m32s
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 29, 2020, 03:19:31 pm
I got the impression he was talking about a paying customer being refused access to a bathroom
Could go either way. Obviously paying customers could be given more leeway, however in both cases there may be a history of bathroom calamities.

Or someone might have their kitchen sink gravity bong out.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: CO2 on December 29, 2020, 03:23:04 pm
Nah, if there's a bathroom that's just a bathroom for the customers, and I buy something? I get to use it.

Unless it's some kind of newspaper stand with a private bathroom/shitter or something.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 29, 2020, 03:28:59 pm
Nah, if there's a bathroom that's just a bathroom for the customers, and I buy something? I get to use it.

Unless it's some kind of newspaper stand with a private bathroom/shitter or something.
I was thinking more an employee restroom, not the McD's one.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 29, 2020, 03:35:27 pm
Food Customization in America.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/05/food-customization-america/482073/

Quote
In many other countries, this practice of tweaking your order, known as “cheffing,” would not stand. Or at least, it would stand out from the norm. But when Americans fiddle with recipes, “We don’t feel we’re insulting anyone,” Egan says. “We feel we’re getting our money’s worth.”

“People are very funny about food here,” adds Debra Zellner, a professor of psychology at Montclair State University. “Americans think about their food as being more medicinal. They don’t eat for pleasure as much as Europeans do, so they’re always concerned about is what they’re eating going to hurt them? Is it good for them?” Zellner suspects a lot of cheffing has to do not only with people’s personal preferences (and possibly, fear of trying new foods) but with people tailoring their meals to better fit the health fad of the moment.

American culture is also notoriously individualist. We tend to define our personal identities as separate from our communities, which sociological research contrasts with the collectivism seen in other cultures, such as in East Asia or Kenya, where people tend to think of the groups they belong to as equal to or more important than their personal characteristics.

This craze of “mass customization,” Egan says, makes people feel both unique and catered to when they are able to have it their way.  It’s a “desire within our hyper industrialized food system to have something that feels like it meets my personal taste profile. We have access to customized and personalized food experiences at the restaurant level, at the fast casual level, and at the packaged food level and it has only increased.” People can personalize their order at Starbucks or wherever else, and they can also purchase whatever weirdly precise flavor of chips they prefer. (For example, Barbecue, Honey Barbecue, Sweet Southern Heat Barbecue, Hot n’ Spicy Barbecue, and Mesquite Barbecue are all available from Lay’s.) Some fast-food chains have “secret menus” which offer both more options and a supercharged opportunity to signal how special you are for knowing about them.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: fka on December 29, 2020, 03:43:40 pm
Quote
I suspect that the company uses a third-party contractor for deliveries, who set their own policy, and Casa Mia was simply going by what was written in the rulebook.

Is this an example of the "harsh conclusion" to which I leapt? And is it more harsh than the "obnoxious foreigners, going out in huge groups and bothering Korean workers with their wacky demands" scenario that  you've tried to link to my occasional request for a smaller coffee cup? Can you show me where I blasted someone's ethnicity and culture?

Does it rectify things if I say that I hate dealing with Italians in an official capacity? Should I mention that I find British customer service less surly than the stereotype suggests, but also less friendly than my typical experience in the US? And can I add that I actually prefer the more transactional British variant to the artificial chumminess of the USA? How about if I say that the "it's impossible" tendency is stronger in Japan than Korea, and one thing I prefer about Korea over Japan is the greater degree of casual flexibility. 

Where do these comments fall on the spectrum of blasting ethnicities and cultures?

Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: fka on December 29, 2020, 03:45:26 pm
Food Customization in America.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/05/food-customization-america/482073/

The thing is, I actually agree with you in terms of being massively annoyed by the kind of thing you're talking about. I imagine that many others do, too. The problem is that it has absolutely nothing to do with anything that's been discussed here.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 29, 2020, 04:09:53 pm
Is this an example of the "harsh conclusion" to which I leapt?
Well you did call it "the most shocking." It was only after JNM mentioned that there was probably an authorization issue that you brought up the 3rd Party contractor idea. Which was good! I'm not going to pull a Mr. C and say "We all know what you meant." On the contrary, that is exactly what we all need to do- Consider if there isn't some explanation, and if we do alter our views, support people for changing them, not bash them.

I think it's great you did that. I should have drawn a bigger distinction between you and Aristocrat instead of lumping you together and I should have acknowledged your explanation.

But yes, I think we should try and avoid going for nationality/ethnicity/culture explanations. It's often lazy and a rather dubious conclusion to draw.

I mean, it's far more likely that you aren't being allowed to use the employee restroom because last time that happened someone's toddler pissed everywhere vs. "It's because they're Korean."
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: stoat on December 29, 2020, 04:17:20 pm
Quote
But yes, I think we should try and avoid going for nationality/ethnicity/culture explanations. It's often lazy and a rather dubious conclusion to draw.

The exception being US policemen killing black people I guess.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: fka on December 29, 2020, 04:46:58 pm
Well you did call it "the most shocking." It was only after JNM mentioned that there was probably an authorization issue that you brought up the 3rd Party contractor idea. Which was good! I'm not going to pull a Mr. C and say "We all know what you meant." On the contrary, that is exactly what we all need to do- Consider if there isn't some explanation, and if we do alter our views, support people for changing them, not bash them.

I think it's great you did that. I should have drawn a bigger distinction between you and Aristocrat instead of lumping you together and I should have acknowledged your explanation.

But yes, I think we should try and avoid going for nationality/ethnicity/culture explanations. It's often lazy and a rather dubious conclusion to draw.

I mean, it's far more likely that you aren't being allowed to use the employee restroom because last time that happened someone's toddler pissed everywhere vs. "It's because they're Korean."

I didn't alter my view after reading JNM's comment. I was well aware, throughout the whole exchange, that the employees were being guided by forces that they had no power to control. That was what made the situation so absurd - that they had to turn down a big sale and claim that it was impossible to complete the transaction when, in actual fact, it is very possible to move a sofa base two floors past their cut-off point. The butt of the joke here is the ridiculous bureaucracy that prevents common sense from overriding some abstract rule. We have jokes of this nature in Western culture, too, so I don't know why they can't be applied to Korea. The more ridiculous the situation, the more likely it is to come up on a board like this.

In fact I think you misunderstood the whole nature of the discussion, to be honest. You imagined a bunch of unreasonable foreigners making awkward demands of Korean workers and then losing their tempers when those demands weren't met. Yet the whole basis of the joke is that "it's impossible" is sometimes applied
to requests that are not only possible, but frequently carried out without complaint. I think I've probably requested a smaller Americano cup maybe ten times in Korea, only after noticing that the standard cups are particularly gargantuan. Here's how most of those transactions have gone:

Me (speaking in Korean): Do you have a small cup? I like less water.
Barista (holds up a cappuccino or latte cup): How about this?
Me: Yes, thanks.
Barista: Sure.

So when someone says "I can't do it, it's not possible", it's the exception, not the norm. Therefore it becomes the subject of a joke. Because it's absurd - putting water and espresso in a smaller cup has been proven to be very much within the realm of possibility. Just because there's a rule in place doesn't mean that we can't laugh at the degree of control that such a rule has on adults who can't serve their own business interests because of it.

This isn't a new or obscure strain of humor. What you've been doing in this thread is the equivalent of screaming "But the computer really does say no!" at this clip:


https://youtu.be/sX6hMhL1YsQ (https://youtu.be/sX6hMhL1YsQ)



Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: JNM on December 29, 2020, 10:11:44 pm
My best “impossible” story:

Saturday morning, 8 am, McDonald’s drive through near the Seoul Arts Centre.

Me: Three Bacon and Egg McMuffins, please
McD Lady: Impossible!
[pause]
Me: Is egg impossible, or bacon impossible?
McD Lady: Bacon impossible today.
Me: Are three Ham and egg McMuffins possible?
McD Lady: Yes!

Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: 745sticky on December 30, 2020, 08:10:08 am
My general reaction to this wouldn't be to declare the poor peon behind the counter to be a fool and to then blast their ethnicity and culture. That seems a bit...well...dickis h. My general reaction would be to wonder what bureaucratic-corporatist calamity or customer scuzziness resulted in this.
Saying the top-down work culture probably discourages employees from taking initiative isn't blasting Korean ethnicity or culture.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Aristocrat on December 30, 2020, 08:59:11 am
But yes, I think we should try and avoid going for culture explanations. It's often lazy and a rather dubious conclusion to draw.

You criticize cultures and sub-cultures all day long, as long as they're Western. Elements of culture can always be critiqued and should always be critiqued, that's part of the way it adapts to better suit the environment. The fact that it hits a nerve whenever people criticize Korean culture isn't our problem.

You don't get to tell me what I should avoid speaking about. I'll praise and criticize whatever aspect of Korean culture I wish.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 30, 2020, 10:41:35 am
You criticize cultures and sub-cultures all day long, as long as they're Western. Elements of culture can always be critiqued and should always be critiqued, that's part of the way it adapts to better suit the environment. The fact that it hits a nerve whenever people criticize Korean culture isn't our problem.

You don't get to tell me what I should avoid speaking about. I'll praise and criticize whatever aspect of Korean culture I wish.
I criticize subcultures, i.e. SJWdom or such.

I don't blanket criticize Italian culture or American culture. If you criticized a Korean SUBculture, i.e. That incel Korean internet group, and made it clear they were a subculture, that wouldn't be an issue. But in most cases, whatever happens is labeled Korean culture.

Far too often (not always) you aren't critiquing it and you aren't trying to improve it. When you're ranting and venting about it, you're using the acts to look down on and judge in order to make yourself feel superior because the person did something that hurt or bothered you but the restraints of law or society prevented you from doing what you wanted to do and now you can retaliate by belittling them. That's what a non-comedic rant or vent is all about, no matter the subject.

There's no attempt to understand or humanize or see how you might be susceptible to the same impulses as well or to draw any parallels. No consideration for the feelings or motivations or condition of the other person, which a REAL critique and attempt to improve would include.

A Korean turns right, it's because of culture.
A Korean turns left, it's because of culture.
A Korean goes straight, it's because of culture.
There's no objectivity to it. Basically, it's "This person pissed me off today, so I'm going to blame their culture."
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: 745sticky on December 30, 2020, 10:43:13 am
Would work culture qualify as a sub-culture?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 30, 2020, 10:59:05 am
Would work culture qualify as a sub-culture?
If specified as such and dealing with specific fields.

But here's the thing- If a restaurant back home doesn't customize something, is it because of American or Australian culture? And if it doesn't happen here, is it because of Korean culture? What's the standard?

Furthermore, both Aristocrat and fka claimed these incidents were exceptions not the norm, yet they STILL blame culture.

How does that work? If it's culture it should be the norm. That shows how dumb the culture argument is and why it deserves to be called out.

If the large majority of that ethnicity aren't doing something but you're still blanket condeming that ethnicity's culture and by extension, all of them, that's pretty f*cked up. 
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Kyndo on December 30, 2020, 11:05:37 am
But what if something was regularly customized in place A, but not in place B?  Then we would need to start looking for reasons, and workplace culture would certainly be a prime suspect.
And localized culture has roots in the culture that gave birth to it.
There are a series of jumps one can make from micro-culture to macro-culture that can show how a parent culture can influence the sub-cultures found within it.

...
...On the other hand, I'm not saying that Korean culture or Western culture (what is that, even?) is to blame when a minimum wage worker balks at scooping your ice cream in the way you want. Somethings just don't make the jump up from the very specific circumstances that surround it to the more general ones that influence those circumstances.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: stoat on December 30, 2020, 11:14:46 am
Quote
     
How does that work? If it's culture it should be the norm. That shows how dumb the culture argument is and why it deserves to be called out.

If the large majority of that ethnicity aren't doing something but you're still blanket condeming that ethnicity's culture and by extension, all of them, that's pretty f*cked up. 

Kind of like the way you attack UK culture by referencing football violence?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: 745sticky on December 30, 2020, 11:27:53 am
If specified as such and dealing with specific fields.

But here's the thing- If a restaurant back home doesn't customize something, is it because of American or Australian culture? And if it doesn't happen here, is it because of Korean culture? What's the standard?
You're taking a very complicated question and demanding a very simplistic answer. Whether or not something general like refusing to "customize" something is due to culture can only be determined on a case-by-case basis.


If the large majority of that ethnicity aren't doing something but you're still blanket condeming that ethnicity's culture and by extension, all of them, that's pretty f*cked up.
It isn't, at least in the context of our current conversation. Saying an employee may be more adverse to making slight deviations due to a strict top-down work culture is not "pretty f*cked up", and that observation can also exist alongside the acknowledgment that many other employees have grown comfortable enough in their positions to override that particular cultural suggestion.

You have this trend of taking specific examples about very benign things, removing them from that context, and then going on about how we're "blanket condemning that ethnicity's culture and by extension, all of them" and other such histrionics.

Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Aristocrat on December 30, 2020, 11:30:03 am
Furthermore, both Aristocrat and fka claimed these incidents were exceptions not the norm, yet they STILL blame culture.

How does that work? If it's culture it should be the norm. That shows how dumb the culture argument is and why it deserves to be called out.

You're contradicting yourself, as usual.

Earlier, you claimed culture was a lazy argument and that there were many other factors in play when it comes to explaining people's behaviour. Now, you're claiming that if culture was a legitimate argument, all Koreans would be doing the same thing. So, you're implying that culture is responsible for every aspect of every person's behaviour.

Make up your mind.

... and subculture is still culture, buddy.  I've never targeted race or ethnicity, skin pigment has no influence on behaviour.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: oglop on December 30, 2020, 11:30:24 am

If the large majority of that ethnicity aren't doing something but you're still blanket condeming that ethnicity's culture and by extension, all of them, that's pretty f*cked up. 
weren't you recently banging on about how foreigners always have some problems when they go out and eat together, stringing out a list of blanket stereotypes (and, by extention, implying how this doesn't happen with koreans)?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: fka on December 30, 2020, 01:00:10 pm
Quote
If the large majority of that ethnicity aren't doing something but you're still blanket condeming that ethnicity's culture and by extension, all of them, that's pretty f*cked up.

Take a look at that video that I posted (or another one of the "Computer says no" clips from Little Britain). Your take on this whole issue is equivalent to:

1) wondering why there's laughter when the woman refuses to override the computer commands with common sense decisions

2) insisting that the computer does, in fact, say "no", and this should be the final word on the subject

3) getting exasperated that people refuse to bow to the computer's authority

4) assuming that people who don't treat the character in the video with appropriate deference are spoiled, culturally insular, unaccustomed to service industry work and prone to making unreasonable demands of workers

5) extrapolating this situation into a mean-spirited critique of British culture and ethnicity

Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 30, 2020, 01:13:55 pm
But what if something was regularly customized in place A, but not in place B?  Then we would need to start looking for reasons, and workplace culture would certainly be a prime suspect.
And localized culture has roots in the culture that gave birth to it.
There are a series of jumps one can make from micro-culture to macro-culture that can show how a parent culture can influence the sub-cultures found within it.

...
...On the other hand, I'm not saying that Korean culture or Western culture (what is that, even?) is to blame when a minimum wage worker balks at scooping your ice cream in the way you want. Somethings just don't make the jump up from the very specific circumstances that surround it to the more general ones that influence those circumstances.
Certainly we can examine it. I just think perhaps a bit more rigor and a willingness to view things should be adopted than "This Korean person at this minimum wage job refused to do this, it's culture and if you disagree with me, you're an apologist." Also, examination of culture and "internet rant" probably is not going to yield the most accurate, unbiased results.

The culture argument is so prone to bias that it's really one to be cautious about. One example that always sticks with me, being into military history, is a British historians take on a war elephant and how it represented Eastern culture's emphasis on terror and that it was a clumsy weapon that only worked against untrained mass armies. I have the sneaking suspicion that if the British Isles had been full of pachyderms, they would have been used and that same historian would call them "Examples of the combination of mobility and destructive power. The forerunner of Blitzkrieg and the panzer." Somehow culture seems to always revolve around the perspective of the person employing it, especially when positive and negative traits are assigned.

Kind of like the way you attack UK culture by referencing football violence?
You really didn't understand that whole thing did you? The reason I brought that up was to hold the people making the culture argument to the same standard. If you're going to rant about crime or violence in Korea and problems using certain criteria, do you apply that to hooliganism as well and blame British culture? As I say in those, I don't think it IS fair to blame British culture, but if that's the standard you apply then what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

And notice how you say "attack"? If you think what I wrote was an attack, then you again have to apply that same standard.

You're taking a very complicated question and demanding a very simplistic answer. Whether or not something general like refusing to "customize" something is due to culture can only be determined on a case-by-case basis.
Yes, that's my point. The people blaming "culture" are taking a very complicated question and applying a very simplistic answer. Wouldn't you agree? Or are you saying their internet rant is a piece of carefully considered material?

Quote
It isn't, at least in the context of our current conversation. Saying an employee may be more adverse to making slight deviations due to a strict top-down work culture is not "pretty f*cked up", and that observation can also exist alongside the acknowledgment that many other employees have grown comfortable enough in their positions to override that particular cultural suggestion.
It is when you also state that their behavior is not the norm and that other people of the same people did something completely different. Remember they weren't discussing hierarchical cultures or franchise food service culture but Korean culture. While not the same level of bad act, it's akin to labeling terrorist bombings as Muslim culture or drive-by shootings as black culture. It's the same kind of observation. I mean we have posters on here who regularly post rants about those two respective cultures and I think many of us think there's more than just cultural frustration behind that and they have some issues and their obsession is "pretty f*cked up."
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: fka on December 30, 2020, 01:18:36 pm
What are the chances that if any one of these "it's impossible" situations occurred to DM in the US, it would be symptomatic of modern Americans' lack of gumption, a result of pampered upbringings, lax discipline, liberal education, bad parenting and a culture of entitlement?

But in Korea, it's because foreigners are hostile, stupid and intoxicated by the power of food customization.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 30, 2020, 01:25:53 pm
Take a look at that video that I posted (or another one of the "Computer says no" clips from Little Britain). Your take on this whole issue is equivalent to:

1) wondering why there's laughter when the woman refuses to override the computer commands with common sense decisions

2) insisting that the computer does, in fact, say "no", and this should be the final word on the subject

3) getting exasperated that people refuse to bow to the computer's authority

4) assuming that people who don't treat the character in the video with appropriate deference are spoiled, culturally insular, unaccustomed to service industry work and prone to making unreasonable demands of workers

5) extrapolating this situation into a mean-spirited critique of British culture and ethnicity
Yeah, except you and Aristocrat both explicitly mentioned Korea. You didn't make this about customer service in general, there was an emphasis on the Koreanness of it all. As for mean-spirited, well that's debatable. It certainly wasn't in the spirit of camaraderie. There was a distinct "us vs. them" aspect to it. You can still tell the story and have it in Korea and not have it be about culture.

You're contradicting yourself, as usual.

Earlier, you claimed culture was a lazy argument and that there were many other factors in play when it comes to explaining people's behaviour. Now, you're claiming that if culture was a legitimate argument, all Koreans would be doing the same thing. So, you're implying that culture is responsible for every aspect of every person's behaviour.
No, I'm trying to hold you to a consistent standard and point out YOUR contradiction. If culture was a legitimate argument, then what you encountered should have been the norm. It wasn't.

Your application of "culture" seems to be completely arbitrary. Why wasn't it "culture" when those employees DID fulfill your request? Why is THAT going against culture?  There appears to be no objective criteria other than "If they do something that makes me happy, I'll say they're doing it in spite of their culture, but if they do something that pisses me off, I'll blame their culture."

Quote
I've never targeted race or ethnicity, skin pigment has no influence on behaviour.
Well, I wouldn't say targeted, but you do seem to be a bit inconsistent with how you apply culture and seem to rather liberally apply it more to specific ethnicities compared to others.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 30, 2020, 01:28:47 pm
What are the chances that if any one of these "it's impossible" situations occurred to DM in the US, it would be symptomatic of modern Americans' lack of gumption, a result of pampered upbringings, lax discipline, liberal education, bad parenting and a culture of entitlement?
Having worked in food service and dealt with constant inane requests and the explosion of customization demands, probably nil. I tend to side with the workers. I also didn't make anything more than the most basic requests. Even when I was a vegetarian I never bitched and moaned and made demands or a big deal.

Some of us don't confuse a trip to Denny's with hiring a private chef.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: fka on December 30, 2020, 02:01:02 pm
So now we get to the root cause of your total misconstrual of everything that's gone on here. You had some bad experiences involving food customization requests in the US, saw a few trigger words on here, made a sweeping series of assumptions and decided that your past experience was relevant to the conversation, when it's actually not. Apart from Baskin Robbins, none of the examples involved franchises, despite your insistence otherwise, and none of them involved food customization of the sort that's gotten you so worked up. You're tilting at windmills.

Let's just remind ourselves that this comment:

Quote
Remember they weren't discussing hierarchical cultures or franchise food service culture but Korean culture.

was prompted by this:

Quote
the "Can't do" attitude of some Korean businesses can really pull the rug from under you sometimes.

A sensible person reads this as "I usually have normal, unremarkable experiences at Korean businesses. Isn't it weird when you come up against some surprising intransigence?"

But anyway, sorry about all the crappy experiences you had working in food service. I had a lot of them too, and I feel you on the customization issue. That's why I would never engage in that behavior.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: stoat on December 30, 2020, 02:05:41 pm
Quote
Kind of like the way you attack UK culture by referencing football violence?
You really didn't understand that whole thing did you? The reason I brought that up was to hold the people making the culture argument to the same standard. If you're going to rant about crime or violence in Korea and problems using certain criteria, do you apply that to hooliganism as well and blame British culture? As I say in those, I don't think it IS fair to blame British culture, but if that's the standard you apply then what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

I didn't understand it the way you used it no. Because your tactic was to bring up football hooliganism when someone was having a go at a much more general cultural phenomenon and compare them as equals. E.g. Why do people spit so much here? Why are you complaining about that when people in the West are killing each other over football matches?  That's usually the gist of your argument
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 30, 2020, 02:16:28 pm
I didn't understand it the way you used it no. Because your tactic was to bring up football hooliganism when someone was having a go at a much more general cultural phenomenon and compare them as equals. E.g. Why do people spit so much here? Why are you complaining about that when people in the West are killing each other over football matches?  That's usually the gist of your argument
Well, that's because you don't read it carefully. Go pull the actual quotes.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 30, 2020, 02:22:11 pm
So now we get to the root cause of your total misconstrual of everything that's gone on here. You had some bad experiences involving food customization requests in the US, saw a few trigger words on here, made a sweeping series of assumptions and decided that your past experience was relevant to the conversation, when it's actually not. Apart from Baskin Robbins, none of the examples involved franchises, despite your insistence otherwise, and none of them involved food customization of the sort that's gotten you so worked up. You're tilting at windmills.

Let's just remind ourselves that this comment:

was prompted by this:

A sensible person reads this as "I usually have normal, unremarkable experiences at Korean businesses. Isn't it weird when you come up against some surprising intransigence?"

But anyway, sorry about all the crappy experiences you had working in food service. I had a lot of them too, and I feel you on the customization issue. That's why I would never engage in that behavior.
I understand what you're saying. I'll decouple you from Aristocrat in this, which I probably should have done before this. I agree, your explanations make it clear you have a more nuanced view of the situation. I'll accept them and agree with your claim as it pertains to the examples you were making.

I will say in Aristocrat's case this adds more to the culture and rant aspect-
Quote
Aside from critical thinking and creativity that is somewhat discouraged in Korean education, a Japanese guy was discussing how, at a cultural level, the Japanese are generally a very risk averse people. Perhaps a similar hypothesis can be used to explain this behaviour in Korea; people don't want to risk not following protocol to the letter.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: 745sticky on December 30, 2020, 02:27:12 pm
Yes, that's my point. The people blaming "culture" are taking a very complicated question and applying a very simplistic answer. Wouldn't you agree? Or are you saying their internet rant is a piece of carefully considered material?
Who are "these people" and when have they said this? If you're going to cite something, please cite it specifically. I can't read your mind and know exactly what you are referring to.


It is when you also state that their behavior is not the norm and that other people of the same people did something completely different. Remember they weren't discussing hierarchical cultures or franchise food service culture but Korean culture.
While not the same level of bad act, it's akin to labeling terrorist bombings as Muslim culture or drive-by shootings as black culture. It's the same kind of observation. I mean we have posters on here who regularly post rants about those two respective cultures and I think many of us think there's more than just cultural frustration behind that and they have some issues and their obsession is "pretty f*cked up."
Here we are again with the over-exaggerations and histrionics. I suspect that at least part of the reason nobody takes your opinions on these subjects seriously is that you continuously interpret everything in the worst way possible (often changing the framing or decontextualizing what they said) and then insist on likening it to the most egregious acts of racism imaginable.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr C on December 31, 2020, 07:52:19 am
Who are "these people" and when have they said this? If you're going to cite something, please cite it specifically. I can't read your mind and know exactly what you are referring to.
"The people" are called "strawmen" and they exist only in DMT's brain.

Quote
Here we are again with the over-exaggerations and histrionics. I suspect that at least part of the reason nobody takes your opinions on these subjects seriously is that you continuously interpret everything in the worst way possible (often changing the framing or decontextualizing what they said) and then insist on likening it to the most egregious acts of racism imaginable.

A "debate" with him is like a textbook exercise in "identify the logical fallacy".
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 31, 2020, 10:21:56 am
"The people" are called "strawmen" and they exist only in DMT's brain.
A "debate" with him is like a textbook exercise in "identify the logical fallacy".
Care to explain the "logic" of using a 1/10 example to condemn the culture of the other 9/10 and declaring it to be the norm?

You think any poster on here isnt making constant logical fallacies? Please enlighten us O Surak, who be the Sarek amongst us?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr C on December 31, 2020, 11:26:09 am
Care to explain the "logic" of using a 1/10 example to condemn the culture of the other 9/10 and declaring it to be the norm?

See, you don't even get that that's you!
Quote
You think any poster on here isnt making constant logical fallacies? Please enlighten us O Surak, who be the Sarek amongst us?

Dude, no one is perfect.  Everyone here knows that and takes it into account.  And no--no one else is making constant logical fallacies.   

Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: bigfishlittlefish on December 31, 2020, 11:33:55 am
I have a question.  Why do many older Koreans (especially the ladies) have very bowed legs?  Obviously I assume this Confucianism or so they're closer to the ground for spitting, but really, why do they?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: stoat on December 31, 2020, 11:37:55 am
I have a question.  Why do many older Koreans (especially the ladies) have very bowed legs?  Obviously I assume this Confucianism or so they're closer to the ground for spitting, but really, why do they?

Nice DM bait but I'll suggest an answer anyway. Lack of vitamin D and rickets
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on December 31, 2020, 03:58:01 pm
See, you don't even get that that's you!
You don't even get that's you too as well as everyone else.

If you think it isn't, basically the totality of research into human cognition and behavior would like to have a word with you.

Quote
Dude, no one is perfect.  Everyone here knows that and takes it into account.  And no--no one else is making constant logical fallacies.   

Really? You don't think anyone else is making constant logical fallacies? I bet if you went through the comments here, you'd find logical fallacies all over the place with virtually every post people make.

I mean, this isn't a logical fallacy per se, but have you done any analysis? Have you tracked people's posts and counted the number of fallacies per post?

And again, basically all of science would disagree that I am the exception and everyone else is the norm. We're all the norm- highly illogical and irrational.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: waygo0k on January 01, 2021, 05:05:31 pm
I have a question.  Why do many older Koreans (especially the ladies) have very bowed legs?  Obviously I assume this Confucianism or so they're closer to the ground for spitting, but really, why do they?

Decades of sitting cross legged on the floor
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: JNM on January 01, 2021, 08:58:41 pm
Is the broom short to fit the hunched-over old woman, or is the old woman hunched-over from using a short broom all her life?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Kyndo on January 04, 2021, 09:36:13 am
I have a question.  Why do many older Koreans (especially the ladies) have very bowed legs?  Obviously I assume this Confucianism or so they're closer to the ground for spitting, but really, why do they?
Rickets.

Bowed legs and spinal curvature are classic signs of rickets. This is caused by insufficient intake of vitamin D and, to a lesser extent, calcium. Rickets is fairly common in developing countries where dairy is absent from diet, and where there is not sufficient access to vitamin supplements.

Keep in mind that during the time when many of these women where developing, Korea was one of the poorest countries in the world, and their diets consisted almost entirely of cereals (ie, rice).
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Aristocrat on January 04, 2021, 09:48:25 am
Rickets.

Bowed legs and spinal curvature are classic signs of rickets. This is caused by insufficient intake of vitamin D and, to a lesser extent, calcium. Rickets is fairly common in developing countries where dairy is absent from diet, and where there is not sufficient access to vitamin supplements.

Keep in mind that during the time when many of these women where developing, Korea was one of the poorest countries in the world, and their diets consisted almost entirely of cereals (ie, rice).

True. I think it's a big part of the reason you see old woman with ridiculously crooked spines... that and a lifetime of bending over, working the rice fields on a diet of rice and water.

Funnily enough, I've heard that bowed legs was considered a female beauty standard in Japan.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Kyndo on January 04, 2021, 09:59:39 am
I've heard that too.
The bones in your legs are naturally curved a bit. This tiny amount of curvature is ever-so-slightly more pronounced in women due to the shape of their pelvis and the subsequent proportionately wider spacing of the hip joints.
Because somebody with almost zero body fat is going to have super skinny legs, that curvature would be far more noticeable than on somebody with a healthy layer of fat and muscle.
Skinny is attractive in Japan (just like in most Western societies, I guess).

Or maybe they just really like adjummas!  :laugh:

On a vaguely related note, being slightly snaggle toothed is also considered attractive there. My teeth are, of course, perfect, but I do have pronounced canines, which a number of people have complimented me for back when I lived there. Was a bit weird maybe, but hey, compliments are compliments!  :azn:
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: stoat on January 04, 2021, 10:53:06 am
Quote
ecember 31, 2020, 11:33:55 am
I have a question.  Why do many older Koreans (especially the ladies) have very bowed legs?  Obviously I assume this Confucianism or so they're closer to the ground for spitting, but really, why do they?       

This is probably due to a medical condition known as 'rickets' caused by a lack of vitamin D.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Aristocrat on January 04, 2021, 12:00:27 pm
Questions 1
Why are so many bathrooms designed without privacy in mind?

Opening the door to the gents will give the entire hallway, including the inside the 5th grade classroom a full view of whoever is pissing into the urinal. The door opens on the same side as the urinal and without any kind of mini labyrinth entrance. More often than not, I've found this disregard for privacy to be the norm when it comes to bathroom designs here.

Question 2
Why do teachers and students share bathrooms?

On a related note, I was kind of baffled when I entered the bathroom, saw the 6th grade homeroom teacher peeing right next to one of the students and chatting. Totally different cultural concept that I can't feel comfortable with. I recall teachers and students having separate bathrooms back home; this makes sense to me as it helps when teachers are afforded a few privileges and segregated from students. It establishes a level of respect. Aside from schools, at a cultural level Korea seems to be a lot more open when it comes to nudity among members of the same sex.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on January 04, 2021, 12:09:07 pm
Related to Aristocat's post, why do ladies clean men's bathrooms with men still busy inside? They do it in Korea, China and here in Taiwan too.

Not great in my books.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: CO2 on January 04, 2021, 12:14:06 pm
Questions 1
Why are so many bathrooms designed without privacy in mind?
Yeah, a lot of the times I'll got to the men's and GF/Stepkid will go too. I often look over my shoulder left or right and can see them come out before me through the men's............ it's not even a door, there's no door, haha. Entrance?  And yeah, I don't think that women are gonna peek at my gochu, it's just weird that THEY ARE VISIBLE while I have my dick in my hands. Like.............. Can we not be in a situation like this? Please?

Quote
Question 2
Why do teachers and students share bathrooms?
My old Chogyo didn't have seperate ones but the new Middle school does. There's me and another male teacher on this floor. I've run into him in the bathroom twice this year. Pure bliss.  :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel:
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Kyndo on January 04, 2021, 12:17:40 pm
There's me and another male teacher on this floor. I've run into him in the bathroom twice this year. Pure bliss.  :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel:

Normally I would assume that this wasn't meant to be taken literally, but considering the source...  :lipsrsealed:
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Aristocrat on January 04, 2021, 12:24:50 pm
Yeah, a lot of the times I'll got to the men's and GF/Stepkid will go too. I often look over my shoulder left or right and can see them come out before me through the men's............ it's not even a door, there's no door, haha. Entrance?  And yeah, I don't think that women are gonna peek at my gochu, it's just weird that THEY ARE VISIBLE while I have my dick in my hands. Like.............. Can we not be in a situation like this? Please?

The fact that guys in the gym changing room are still happily blowdrying their gooch and assfro in front of the other guys tells me that the level of privacy we're happy with is still a long way off.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: tylerthegloob on January 04, 2021, 12:28:41 pm
oh i've been summoned.

REPORTING FOR DUTY, SIR. THIS IS not MY BLOW DRYER. THERE ARE MANY LIKE IT BUT THIS ONE IS not MINE.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: CO2 on January 04, 2021, 12:30:00 pm
Normally I would assume that this wasn't meant to be taken literally, but considering the source...  :lipsrsealed:

Shit. hahahaha
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: fka on January 04, 2021, 01:04:01 pm
Quote
Questions 1
Why are so many bathrooms designed without privacy in mind?

Opening the door to the gents will give the entire hallway, including the inside the 5th grade classroom a full view of whoever is pissing into the urinal. The door opens on the same side as the urinal and without any kind of mini labyrinth entrance. More often than not, I've found this disregard for privacy to be the norm when it comes to bathroom designs here.

Yep, there's on of these in the corridor where my office is. Right next to a classroom and across from another one - anyone walking down the corridor has a full view of at least three urinals inside.

My favorite example, though, is an upper floor at the Daejeon Museum of Art. Futuristic building, everything very modern and well-maintained. Yet there's an outdoor elevator that takes you from street level to the second-floor entrance and ticketing area. The elevator door faces a window into the men's bathroom. Even more bizarrely, the window isn't just a little square or porthole, but more like a full-length mirror.

Quote
Related to Aristocat's post, why do ladies clean men's bathrooms with men still busy inside? They do it in Korea, China and here in Taiwan too.

I've sort of gotten used to this in the bathrooms, but I can't get over young girls cleaning men's spa areas in Japan. Girls who look barely 18, navigating a riot of middle-aged penises. Is it a problem? I don't know, probably not. Is it a hard cultural adjustment to make? Definitely.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: JNM on January 04, 2021, 08:15:29 pm
Related to Aristocat's post, why do ladies clean men's bathrooms with men still busy inside? They do it in Korea, China and here in Taiwan too.

Not great in my books.

I first saw this in Germany, so it isn’t an eastern Asian thing.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on January 05, 2021, 07:47:28 am
I first saw this in Germany, so it isn’t an eastern Asian thing.

How about the rest of Europe? A friend told me that Germany has a pretty relaxed attitude with things like that, he said families go to public baths and all sit naked together, so perhaps it's kind of acceptable there.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Kyndo on January 05, 2021, 08:07:50 am
Definitely the same in NDL. Ditto with Austria, Schweiz, Denmark, Sweden, and Finland. Parts of France too.
The rest is probably more relaxed than North America as well, but I can't verify from personal experience.

Just want to note that North America is pretty messed up when it comes to sexuality.
It's perfectly fine to show the gory details of somebody literally being tortured to death on daytime television, but God forbid there's a bum shot or a frame or two of nipple in there somewhere.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: pkjh on January 06, 2021, 12:13:11 pm
Just want to note that North America is pretty messed up when it comes to sexuality.
It's perfectly fine to show the gory details of somebody literally being tortured to death on daytime television, but God forbid there's a bum shot or a frame or two of nipple in there somewhere.  :rolleyes:
Well the pilgrams were puritanical, throw witches into lakes, scarlet letter, type of people.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Jpdoescoffee on January 06, 2021, 12:20:35 pm
Why does Korea make you buy NEW plastic bags just to throw out the trash?
Seems quite ridiculous, both in terms of money and the environment.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Kyndo on January 06, 2021, 12:26:50 pm
The money that you spend buying those specific bags goes towards subsidizing the garbage disposal process.
If you use a recycled bag (ie a regular vinyl shopping bag) you're not paying for the disposal of your garbage.

It's also the reason why you should not use garbage bags bought in a different municipality to dispose of your garbage -- you're subsidizing the wrong city!
An old lady just about beat me to death with a cardboard box because I was a bit  slow to understand this...  :sad:
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: OnNut81 on January 06, 2021, 12:33:01 pm
Why does Korea make you buy NEW plastic bags just to throw out the trash?
Seems quite ridiculous, both in terms of money and the environment.

I think it's a system that should be adopted back home where I believe trash gets picked up once every two weeks now.  Here, you pay a small amount for the bags and you can put them out everyday.  Much better in my opinion. 

And one supermarket near me offers bag from three different cities but other ones nearby don't so, I'm stuck with bags from the neighbouring cities.  Not a problem, as I just go on the buy/sell forum and sell them at a discount. 
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Aristocrat on January 06, 2021, 12:36:13 pm
The money that you spend buying those specific bags goes towards subsidizing the garbage disposal process.
If you use a recycled bag (ie a regular vinyl shopping bag) you're not paying for the disposal of your garbage.

It's also the reason why you should not use garbage bags bought in a different municipality to dispose of your garbage -- you're subsidizing the wrong city!
An old lady just about beat me to death with a cardboard box because I was a bit  slow to understand this...  :sad:

^This

It goes without saying that your food waste goes into a different bin and if you want to be really awesome, flatten your cardboard boxes into a single neat pile and save the old people who collect it for recycling from having to do so.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: CO2 on January 06, 2021, 12:43:50 pm
It's also the reason why you should not use garbage bags bought in a different municipality to dispose of your garbage -- you're subsidizing the wrong city!

As a rule, yes, but if you have a couple from a diff city just use them. It's hard to imagine that these things don't balance out over a year. Anyang gets a few Gunpo ones, Gunpo gets a few Uiwang ones.

But yeah, don't buy 10 of the wrong city when you're purchasing a bunch, haha. But one wrong bag, doesn't matter. Unless you wanna go SUPERMETA and throw away an Uiwang bag as garbage inside a proper Anyang bag ahahaha. BAG-CEPTION.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Kyndo on January 06, 2021, 12:54:56 pm
As a rule, yes, but if you have a couple from a diff city just use them. It's hard to imagine that these things don't balance out over a year. Anyang gets a few Gunpo ones, Gunpo gets a few Uiwang ones.
Look, do what you like, but don't come to me for sympathy after getting pummeled by old ladies for using the wrong municipal garbage bag!

Unless you wanna go SUPERMETA and throw away an Uiwang bag as garbage inside a proper Anyang bag. ahahaha. BAG-CEPTION.
What, are you *trying* to get us in trouble?
Mixing "비닐 봉투" with "일반 쓰레기"?????

(https://i.gifer.com/90ZW.gif)
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: OnNut81 on January 06, 2021, 01:00:42 pm
As a rule, yes, but if you have a couple from a diff city just use them. It's hard to imagine that these things don't balance out over a year. Anyang gets a few Gunpo ones, Gunpo gets a few Uiwang ones.

But yeah, don't buy 10 of the wrong city when you're purchasing a bunch, haha. But one wrong bag, doesn't matter. Unless you wanna go SUPERMETA and throw away an Uiwang bag as garbage inside a proper Anyang bag ahahaha. BAG-CEPTION.

I can deal with the odd Anyang bag, they made an effort with the design and colour, but an Uiwang bag in Gunpo?  That's freak out time.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Liechtenstein on January 06, 2021, 01:22:53 pm
Why do people back their cars into spots at E-Mart and places when they are shopping for groceries?

A) It's easier to drive into a tight space

B) It's easier to back out into an open space

C) You have to back up once anyway

D) When you drive in you have to back out and then spend time loading all your groceries into your trunk thus blocking cars for some time and generally causing havoc
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: CO2 on January 06, 2021, 01:26:09 pm
Why do people back their cars into spots at E-Mart and places when they are shopping for groceries?

A) It's easier to drive into a tight space

B) It's easier to back out into an open space

C) You have to back up once anyway

D) When you drive in you have to back out and then spend time loading all your groceries into your trunk thus blocking cars for some time and generally causing havoc

YES. THIS 100%. For real.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr C on January 06, 2021, 01:28:31 pm
Why do people back their cars into spots at E-Mart and places when they are shopping for groceries?

A) It's easier to drive into a tight space

B) It's easier to back out into an open space

C) You have to back up once anyway

D) When you drive in you have to back out and then spend time loading all your groceries into your trunk thus blocking cars for some time and generally causing havoc
Reverse parking is safer.  It's true that you have to back up once anyway, but  rear-in parking means you are backing into a known area that is clear of traffic.  Leaving the space out into traffic head first gives you the obvious safely advantage of good sight lines.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Kyndo on January 06, 2021, 01:32:45 pm
I was confused for a bit too, but then realised that Liechtenstein must be asking the question rhetorically, and then is listing all the reasons why backing in is better.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mister Tim on January 06, 2021, 01:38:32 pm

What, are you *trying* to get us in trouble?
Mixing "비닐 봉투" with "일반 쓰레기"?????


Sue-Lay-Gee Bong-Too Jew-Say-Yo
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: waygo0k on January 06, 2021, 02:27:01 pm
I reverse park 100X out of 100.

Makes life easier when leaving. I can still access my boot when loading shopping...and it's just more logical.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Liechtenstein on January 06, 2021, 02:36:04 pm
We are talking about Korean drivers here, right? Not the most talented folks I've witnessed behind the wheel.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on January 06, 2021, 02:43:39 pm
Why do people back their cars into spots at E-Mart and places when they are shopping for groceries?

A) It's easier to drive into a tight space

B) It's easier to back out into an open space

C) You have to back up once anyway

D) When you drive in you have to back out and then spend time loading all your groceries into your trunk thus blocking cars for some time and generally causing havoc
Actually it is safer to back in. When backing in, pedestrians or vehicles that are moving won't be in your blind spot.

https://www.thejournal.ie/reverse-into-parking-spaces-3906360-Mar2018/

No less an authority than one of the Car Talk guys endorses backing in:
https://www.vox.com/2016/8/1/11926596/safer-back-into-parking-spaces
Quote
“While your car's butt is sticking out into traffic, you can't see if there are cars coming, because your view is blocked by the passenger compartments of the cars or SUVs parked next to you.”

I do agree it's dumb if the place doesn't have proper space for the shopping carts to go behind the cars. Many do, but then again, many don't.

Anyways, this can easily be explained with a simple google search. Next don't assume the locals are dumb just because they do something different. Maybe YOU are the one who is doing something dumb.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Liechtenstein on January 06, 2021, 05:00:56 pm
I don't believe it's safer to back in. Done. I don't care what other people think on the subject. It's inarguable that having to pull out and then stop and load up the groceries blocks vehicle movement. That may not be dumb per se, but it is sure as heck ignorant.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: JNM on January 06, 2021, 05:10:10 pm
Why do people back their cars into spots at E-Mart and places when they are shopping for groceries?

A) It's easier to drive into a tight space

B) It's easier to back out into an open space

C) You have to back up once anyway

D) When you drive in you have to back out and then spend time loading all your groceries into your trunk thus blocking cars for some time and generally causing havoc
It is what is taught.

Most Koreans take formal driving courses as opposed to learning from their mum or dad.

Backing in is safer, according to the many corporate safety courses I have taken. There is a much lower risk of something entering your path backing in compared to out, and your sight-lines are better driving out (where there are more risks).
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Aristocrat on January 06, 2021, 06:45:13 pm
I don't believe it's safer to back in. Done. I don't care what other people think on the subject. It's inarguable that having to pull out and then stop and load up the groceries blocks vehicle movement. That may not be dumb per se, but it is sure as heck ignorant.

As opposed to your person and trolley being behind your car and potentially obstructing traffic, particularly if you're in a covered parking structure with lanes barely wide enough for a single car to drive through?
At least at all the supermarkets I've been to, I've always had ample room to load my groceries into the boot, there's a bit of a lane between parking rows.

The perceptive among us would have noticed that humans have eyes in front of their heads. The most dangerous part of the process is pulling out of a parking space with your sight lines potentially obstructed on
either side by parked cars. Add performing the manoeuvre while looking over your shoulder and it becomes more dangerous.

On a related note, it seems the ridiculous belief that you shouldn't reverse into a parking space when you exhaust will be facing vegetation (as it harms the plants) is dying out.   

Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: JNM on January 06, 2021, 06:55:12 pm
As opposed to your person and trolley being behind your car and potentially obstructing traffic, particularly if you're in a covered parking structure with lanes barely wide enough for a single car to drive through?
At least at all the supermarkets I've been to, I've always had ample room to load my groceries into the boot, there's a bit of a lane between parking rows.

The perceptive among us would have noticed that humans have eyes in front of their heads. The most dangerous part of the process is pulling out of a parking space with your sight lines potentially obstructed on
either side by parked cars. Add performing the manoeuvre while looking over your shoulder and it becomes more dangerous.

On a related note, it seems the ridiculous belief that you shouldn't reverse into a parking space when you exhaust will be facing vegetation (as it harms the plants) is dying out.   



Plants love CO2!
It is good for them.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on January 06, 2021, 07:29:45 pm
Plants love CO2!
It is good for them.
CO2 finally getting some love in this forum!

But what do the plants think of CO4?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Lazio on January 06, 2021, 08:03:44 pm
It isn't only about safety. It's just easier. Simple physics. If you don't understand why is it easier to reverse park, then you aren't such a great driver as you think.

Korea not only has very narrow parking bays, but the distance between the rows is also narrow. This makes front parking more difficult and reverse parking easier.
You say there is backing up involved in both cases so essentially there is no difference. But you are wrong. The two reversings aren't the same.
When you reverse park, the front wheels that you have control over are on the outside. This gives you a pretty obvious advantage when maneuvering in and out of the parking bay.

If you don't believe me, just google it.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Kyndo on January 07, 2021, 07:28:32 am
CO2 finally getting some love in this forum!

But what do the plants think of CO4?
:laugh:                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        :laugh:


But seriously, car exhaust also contains a fair amount of carbon monoxide, which is even more toxic to plants than it is to humans. People who believe the direct application of exhaust to vegetation is beneficial are idiots. Just like the people who believe backing out into traffic is safer than pulling up into it are.  :smiley:
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Liechtenstein on January 07, 2021, 10:53:23 am
I find it hard to believe that people find it difficult to back out of a parking space. You know exactly what is going on because you just got in your car. I gather none of you look around to see what is happening. Backing in is the wrong move.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Kyndo on January 07, 2021, 11:41:37 am
Experts disagree with you.
Backing in, while requiring more skill, is undeniably safer.
They also bring up a good point: if you drive into a space, and your battery dies, it is extremely difficult to get a jumpstart.

https://auto.howstuffworks.com/car-driving-safety/accidents-hazardous-conditions/backed-in-car-parking-lot-space.htm#:~:text=Think%20Safety,when%20you%20are%20pulling%20in.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Liechtenstein on January 07, 2021, 11:59:35 am
Experts disagree with you.
Backing in, while requiring more skill, is undeniably safer.
They also bring up a good point: if you drive into a space, and your battery dies, it is extremely difficult to get a jumpstart.

https://auto.howstuffworks.com/car-driving-safety/accidents-hazardous-conditions/backed-in-car-parking-lot-space.htm#:~:text=Think%20Safety,when%20you%20are%20pulling%20in.

Experts shmexperts...a lot of them thought Trump would win and some allegedly still do.

As for a dead battery, good point. But one could always push one's car out couldn't they? As to getting a jump, I was the only driver I ever knew who had jumper cables in their car. It's a Canadian thing maybe.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Kyndo on January 07, 2021, 12:07:11 pm
 :laugh:
One is dealing with statistics, polling, and predictions. The other is dealing with simple physics.
They're not the same.
There's a reason why political science isn't considered a real science!   :wink:
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on January 07, 2021, 12:07:19 pm
I find it hard to believe that people find it difficult to back out of a parking space. You know exactly what is going on because you just got in your car. I gather none of you look around to see what is happening. Backing in is the wrong move.
You dont know what us going on because the situation is not static and the distances cars can cover in the time you got in. Your field of vision is also not optimal for situational awareness.

There are exceptions, but generally backing in is better.
Experts shmexperts...a lot of them thought Trump would win and some allegedly still do.

As for a dead battery, good point. But one could always push one's car out couldn't they? As to getting a jump, I was the only driver I ever knew who had jumper cables in their car. It's a Canadian thing maybe.
Political experts dont work in the same field.

Most people dont carry 3M jumper cables. And no it isnt a Canadian thing.

Look, I'm giving you more than most here in saying there are exceptions, and regular enough ones that its not absurd to practice another way, but overall it IS better to back in.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: caitlinn on January 07, 2021, 12:13:54 pm
hmmm hmm fair enough but in all those hours of extensive research did those scientists even bother to consider:


-i dont want to
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: JNM on January 07, 2021, 01:59:49 pm
... As to getting a jump, I was the only driver I ever knew who had jumper cables in their car. It's a Canadian thing maybe.

Yup.

I learned young that it you have cables in the car you don’t need to look for them when you need them AND you get to be the hero on occasion!
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Liechtenstein on January 07, 2021, 02:39:27 pm
Yup.

I learned young that it you have cables in the car you don’t need to look for them when you need them AND you get to be the hero on occasion!

Funny. I was that hero in Korea when my co-teacher left her lights on all day and her battery was stone cold dead. She had no idea what they were or what they were for and a bunch of students and teachers stood around perplexed while I performed magic. I helped change a couple of flat tires too. One fellow didn't even realize cars came with spares.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: stoat on January 20, 2021, 09:54:56 am
An adult student told me recently he binge watched a drama but set it to play at a faster speed so he could finish it sooner. I mentioned this to my wife and she said she'd done the same thing in the past. It sounded totally bizarre to me, since I'd have thought you'd want a good drama to last longer, not shorter. Nevermind the way it would affect the action/speech. Why would anyone do that?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: SPQR on January 20, 2021, 10:06:14 am
An adult student told me recently he binge watched a drama but set it to play at a faster speed so he could finish it sooner. I mentioned this to my wife and she said she'd done the same thing in the past. It sounded totally bizarre to me, since I'd have thought you'd want a good drama to last longer, not shorter. Nevermind the way it would affect the action/speech. Why would anyone do that?

Understandable if it is a Korean drama. Get it over with as soon
as possible.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: stoat on January 20, 2021, 10:10:18 am
Actually it'd be quite handy thing to do when doing IELTS examining on recorded speaking tests. Only problem is, it'd affect the fluency score I guess.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: fka on January 20, 2021, 10:16:58 am
Why do so many ordinary restaurants in Korea get visited by TV shows (resulting in those ugly banners that they display outside, with pixellated screenshots of someone slurping a bowl of noodles)?

Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: CO2 on January 20, 2021, 10:24:54 am
Why do so many ordinary restaurants in Korea get visited by TV shows (resulting in those ugly banners that they display outside, with pixellated screenshots of someone slurping a bowl of noodles)?



Look, we're having 칼국수 in Yeoju.

Yup. Tastes like 칼국수.

Oh, wow, the chef made us 주먹밥. That's not even on the menu! This is really special.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: stoat on January 20, 2021, 10:26:42 am
I guess one reason would be the way restaurants here often only specialise in one dish, and they're always seeking out the place that has the best such and such in town. So they'll be loads of examples of that. I'm guessing that's why they visit the restarants.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: fka on January 20, 2021, 10:52:33 am
That was my theory, too, but I'm still at a loss to explain why so many restaurants get visited. Then again, the standards for evaluating "Best ______ in town" probably aren't very rigorous.
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on January 20, 2021, 11:14:06 am
An adult student told me recently he binge watched a drama but set it to play at a faster speed so he could finish it sooner. I mentioned this to my wife and she said she'd done the same thing in the past. It sounded totally bizarre to me, since I'd have thought you'd want a good drama to last longer, not shorter. Nevermind the way it would affect the action/speech. Why would anyone do that?
In retrospect, I wish I could have FFwded Spaceballs style through the last season of GoT...
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: OnNut81 on January 20, 2021, 01:09:35 pm
An adult student told me recently he binge watched a drama but set it to play at a faster speed so he could finish it sooner. I mentioned this to my wife and she said she'd done the same thing in the past. It sounded totally bizarre to me, since I'd have thought you'd want a good drama to last longer, not shorter. Nevermind the way it would affect the action/speech. Why would anyone do that?

That's the way I watched The Theory of Everything just the other day.  I still hated it but was mollified by the fact it hadn't taken that long to watch it.  I wish I had known it was a romance/love story before I watched it.  Foolishly assumed it was going to be about Stephen Hawking and the work he did while battling with motor neuron disease. 
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Vivi on January 20, 2021, 01:34:08 pm
I guess we never gonna know the answer. Mistery should stay mistery.  Western mind never gonna be able comprehend an Asian subtlety  :azn:
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Chinguetti on January 20, 2021, 01:56:14 pm
... but then how can you take it seriously? Especially if it's a drama? I can't imagine being able to enjoy, say, a romance drama if everyone is talking like chipmunks. Or is it not that bad?
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: OnNut81 on January 20, 2021, 02:01:40 pm
... but then how can you take it seriously? Especially if it's a drama? I can't imagine being able to enjoy, say, a romance drama if everyone is talking like chipmunks. Or is it not that bad?

In my case once I realised the central theme of the movie I actually just dragged my finger along the line to where it was no longer a scene with just a man and a woman and started watching again.  It didn't leave a whole lot of the film left to watch. 
Title: Re: Answers to burning questions we have about Korea
Post by: Chinguetti on January 20, 2021, 02:08:33 pm
Okay, skipping/ffw over scenes you don't care to watch, I get that. I do it, too.

I thought some of you guys were talking about actually playing a film or series at a higher speed, though, lol. Like setting it to 4x speed.