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Symposium => "Open" Discussions => Topic started by: Liechtenstein on September 23, 2020, 10:15:17 am

Title: Defund the police
Post by: Liechtenstein on September 23, 2020, 10:15:17 am
I am no fan of the police in general, especially American cops with their shoot first ask questions later attitude. The militarization of police forces is disconcerting. I also think that cops should come from communication backgrounds heavily influenced with listening skills.

Having said that, the entire defund the police thing is absurd. We need police.

Having said that, people who espouse defundiing the police and then call the police the moment they are scared are just a tad hypocritical.

What do you think? Defund the police, retrain for more empathy/sympathy, or arm 'em up?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8756911/Defund-police-activist-Alyssa-Milano-sparks-massive-police-presence-calling-911.html?ito=social-facebook
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: thunderlips on September 23, 2020, 10:24:30 am
Defund doesn't mean elimante. It means take some of their budget and use it to create alternatives to the majority of the calls that the police currently deal with, such as mental health and drug issues.

Alternatively more training would be a good start too.


Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: hangook77 on September 23, 2020, 11:29:07 am
Militarization of police is probably due to folks killing them and rioting and burning shit down.  Sadly, most people will just retuire as most big city liberal mayors are cowards and will throw most of their police forces under the bus. 
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: stoat on September 23, 2020, 11:34:33 am
Quote
Defund doesn't mean elimante. It means take some of their budget and use it to create alternatives to the majority of the calls that the police currently deal with, such as mental health and drug issues.

Yes, the problem is what social worker/mental health nurse is going to want to respond to a call that some nutter is wandering around the neighbourhood threatening people? As soon as there's a possibility of violence, they'll call the police anyway. Just like they do in hospitals when it gets a bit hairy.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: L I on September 23, 2020, 11:42:18 am
In poor neighborhoods, where police presence goes down, crimes go up.

Police are afraid to shoot a black man - doing so could ruin their life.

It’s not a statistically high occurrence considering America’s big population and somewhat high crime rate for a wealthy country.

The problem is people who shouldn’t be having kids are given welfare money when they do, which leads to them making more children they can’t take care of.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: L I on September 23, 2020, 11:43:24 am
Good intentions often have unintended consequences.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: thunderlips on September 23, 2020, 11:50:25 am
Yes, the problem is what social worker/mental health nurse is going to want to respond to a call that some nutter is wandering around the neighbourhood threatening people? As soon as there's a possibility of violence, they'll call the police anyway. Just like they do in hospitals when it gets a bit hairy.

I was a case manager/resident advocate in a mens homeless shelter. I personally only had to call the police once out of two years working there. These guys had a wide variety of issues; mental health, drug addiction, post prison supervision, serious health issues. So I don't think finding applicants will be a problem.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: stoat on September 23, 2020, 11:57:46 am
Quote
I was a case manager/resident advocate in a mens homeless shelter. I personally only had to call the police once out of two years working there. These guys had a wide variety of issues; mental health, drug addiction, post prison supervision, serious health issues. So I don't think finding applicants will be a problem.

Yes but I thought we were talking about people the public do call the police about now, being the responsibility of someone else, not the ones they don't.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: thunderlips on September 23, 2020, 12:11:26 pm
Yes but I thought we were talking about people the public do call the police about now, being the responsibility of someone else, not the ones they don't.

I can assure you some of these guys had the cops called on them.

But the majority of police calls are non-violent.

https://www.newhavenindependent.org/index.php/archives/entry/police_dispatch_stats/

Quote
All Police Dispatches By Call Type, July 2018 to June 2020
Below is an aggregate list of police dispatch calls by call type over the past two years, sorted from high to low by number of calls responded to by police.

Alarm: 12,464
Other Miscellaneous: 11,885
MVA - No Injury: 9,416
Breach / Disorderly Conduct: 7,654
Domestic Dispute: 7,339
Theft: 6,040
Trespass / Unwanted Person: 5,764
Parking Violations: 5,478
Noise Complaint: 5,397
Public Hazard: 4,612
Door Check / Welfare Check: 4,282
Evading - No Injury: 3,900
Assault/Fight: 3,839
Person Down BLS: 3,322
Psych/Ab Behav/Suicidal BLS: 3,167
Criminal Mischief / Vandalism: 3,076
Motor Vehicle Stop: 2,785
Harassment: 2,575
911 Hangup Call: 2,554
Tenant / Neighbor Issues: 2,491
Supplemental Investigation: 2,468
Suspicious Person: 2,443
Fraud / Forgery / False Rpt: 2,381
Warrant / Wanted Person: 2,355
MVA - Minor Injury (TTAB): 1,996
Emotionally Disturbed: 1,905
Assist Other Agency - Police: 1,785
Threatening/Stalking: 1,645
Loitering: 1,514
Prop Retrieval / Prev Breach: 1,489
Lost or Found Property: 1,411
Drug / Narcotics Complaint: 1,342
Suspicious Auto: 1,323
Burglary Occurred: 1,315
Gunfire / Shots Fired: 1,295
Missing Person > 13 YO: 1,288
Animal Complaint: 1,260
Recovered Auto: 1,121
Intoxicated Person (PD): 936
Sick Person (Medical Assist): 921
Guarding Prisoner: 904
Overdose: 900
Stolen Auto: 748
Box Alarm: 738
Prisoner Conveyance Requested: 716
Weapons Complaint: 712
Custodial Interference: 679
Robbery: 628
Located Person: 620
Risk of Injury Complaint: 618
MVA - Majory Injury (TTAA): 610
Wires Down: 557
MVA - Minor Injury: 531
Unknown Nature: 516
Assault ALS: 488
Veh Taken w/o Permission: 476
Deceased Person: 395
Sex Offenses: 394
Fireworks: 370
Tampering w/ Motor Vehicle: 358
Illegal Dumping: 329
Auto Fire: 248
Accident Other than MV: 239
Evading - Minor Injury (TTAB): 222
Sexual Assault / Rape: 217
Psych/Ab Behav/Suicidal: 210
Burglary in Progress: 202
Drunk Driver: 190
Person Shot: 183
Missing Child less than 13 YOA: 183
MVA - Major Injury: 157
Notifications: 156
MVA Start Code: 143
Trash Fire: 125
Animal Bite / Sting ALS: 107
Rollover Extrication Required: 106
Prostitution Complaint: 104
Psych/Ab Behav/Suicidal ALS: 102
Stabbing / Knife Injury-Major: 95
Unattended Luggage: 93
Activated Fire Alarm: 83
Evading - Minor Injury: 60
Stabbing / Knife Injury-Minor: 54
Absentee Ballot: 52
Traffic Post / Corner Duty: 49
Evading - Major Injury (TTAA): 49
Stolen Plate: 45
Street Cleaning Detail: 34
In Pursuit: 30
Gambling: 30
MVA Major Injury: 28
Overdose/Poisoning/Ingest ALS: 27
Recovered Plate: 23
Hazardous Materials Incident: 22
Liquor Violation: 19
Abduction: 17
Evading - Major Injury: 15
Elevator Extrication: 15
Suspicious Package: 13
Murder: 10
Bomb Threat: 10
Mutual Aid-Other Jurisdiction: 9
Code 1 Suspicious Package: 8
Welfare Check BLS: 7
Train Derailment/Incident: 6
Detox-Ambulance Needed: 6
Animal Bite/Sting BLS: 6
Reckless Endangerment: 4
Partial Collapse: 4
Cardiac/Resp Arrest/Death: 4
Breathing Problem ALS: 4
Unconscious ALS: 3
Police Escort: 3
Odor or Natural Gas: 3
Civil Unrest Law: 3
Burglar on Premise: 3
Sick Person ALS: 2
Officer Needed Assistance Sig4: 2
Citizen Assist (Yale): 2
Animal Bite Start Code: 2
Traumatic Injuries ALS: 1
Structural Collapse: 1
High Angle Rescue: 1
Fall ALS: 1
Escaped Prisoner: 1
Electrocution BLS: 1
Code 2 Suspicious Behavior: 1
Chest Pain ALS: 1
Brush Fire: 1
AMR Only: 1
Allergic Reaction ALS: 1
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: stoat on September 23, 2020, 12:19:29 pm
Not really surprising, only the very stupidest people would start acting up physically when confronted by a US cop these days.  I wonder how many of those calls would have ended in violence if an unarmed social worker had responded to the call.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: thunderlips on September 23, 2020, 12:23:15 pm
Not really surprising, only the very stupidest people would start acting up physically when confronted by a US cop these days.  I wonder how many of those calls would have ended in violence if an unarmed social worker had responded to the call.

I wonder how many people having a mental health episode wouldn't have been shot if a mental health worker arrived.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/09/18/police-shooting-mental-health-solutions-training-defund/5763145002/

Quote
Nearly 15% of men and 30% of women booked into jails have a serious mental health condition, the National Alliance on Mental Illness estimates.

And more than 1 in 5 people shot and killed by police have a mental illness, according to a Washington Post database of fatal shootings by on-duty police officers.

Police have fatally shot more than 1,200 people with mental illnesses – the majority of whom were white – since 2015, according to the database. Of the nearly 700 people shot and killed by police so far this year, more than 100 had a mental illness.

"The police become the responders of last resort, and the jails become the mental hospitals of last resort," said Peter Scharf, a criminologist at the Louisiana State University School of Public Health and Justice. "Increasingly, the police and correctional system become the last option."
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: shanebarry1986 on September 23, 2020, 12:39:27 pm
I wonder how many people having a mental health episode wouldn't have been shot if a mental health worker arrived.

I would guess a lot. But in that case there'd be far fewer "mental health worker" alive to respond to calls. Because they'd be dead. From the stabbing.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: stoat on September 23, 2020, 12:42:46 pm
Quote
I wonder how many people having a mental health episode wouldn't have been shot if a mental health worker arrived.

Yes as Shanebarry says, how many mental health workers would have been shot/stabbed/beaten up if they'd arrived instead of the police, Also the diagnosis of mental health in criminals is spectacularly high these days. Up to 90% in some studies.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: L I on September 23, 2020, 12:43:07 pm
What is a mental illness? Psychopathy?  Sociopathy? Anti-social personally disorder (meaning low empathy for others)?

Those are most likely included/.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: tylerthegloob on September 23, 2020, 12:50:09 pm
how many mental health workers would have been shot/stabbed/beaten up if they'd arrived instead of the police
idk dude how many?
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: D.L.Orean on September 23, 2020, 12:51:26 pm
idk dude how many?

At least 1 more than the number of people killed by police
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: tylerthegloob on September 23, 2020, 01:02:37 pm
At least 1 more than the number of people killed by police
at least 1201 mental health workers would have been stabbed/shot/beaten up if they had arrived to deal with someone having a mental health episode instead of the police?
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: 745sticky on September 23, 2020, 01:08:30 pm
really glad to see this thread has revived
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: tylerthegloob on September 23, 2020, 01:10:50 pm
really glad to see this thread has revived
revived? it just got started
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: D.L.Orean on September 23, 2020, 01:12:14 pm
at least 1201 mental health workers would have been stabbed/shot/beaten up if they had arrived to deal with someone having a mental health episode instead of the police?

It would be lower. Much lower.

I tried to jump in with the eggieguffer and Shane reply so we could just get that part over with.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: 745sticky on September 23, 2020, 01:13:24 pm
revived? it just got started

oh, my bad. I thought it was the other police one
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: D.L.Orean on September 23, 2020, 01:15:01 pm
oh, my bad. I thought it was the other police one

We haven't even mentioned black on black crime in this one. There's still a lot of ground to cover.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: stoat on September 23, 2020, 01:15:48 pm
at least 1201 mental health workers would have been stabbed/shot/beaten up if they had arrived to deal with someone having a mental health episode instead of the police?

The report said the police killed 1200 people with mental illness, not people 'having a mental health episode'. Presumably this would include people with mental health issues killed while committing violent crimes or shooting at the police.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: tylerthegloob on September 23, 2020, 01:24:24 pm
shooting at the police.
well that escalated quickly
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: thunderlips on September 23, 2020, 01:25:50 pm
The report said the police killed 1200 people with mental illness, not people 'having a mental health episode'. Presumably this would include people with mental health issues killed while committing violent crimes or shooting at the police.

Yeah or maybe they were aliens and driving their spacecraft under the influence. I mean if we are going to make sh!te up let's make it interesting.


We haven't even mentioned black on black crime in this one. There's still a lot of ground to cover.
We haven't even mentioned black on black crime in this one. There's still a lot of ground to cover.


Ahhh.... ok.      Not sure how that applies, but ok Ben Shapiro lets talk about.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: D.L.Orean on September 23, 2020, 01:26:28 pm
well that escalated quickly

That's why we needed to call the police
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: 745sticky on September 23, 2020, 01:27:28 pm
do not bring ben shapiro into it. glob has already been epicly pwnd by facts and logic enough
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: D.L.Orean on September 23, 2020, 01:28:56 pm
Yeah or maybe they were aliens and driving their spacecraft under the influence. I mean if we are going to make sh!te up let's make it interesting.



Ahhh.... ok.      Not sure how that applies, but ok Ben Shapiro lets talk about.

I'm not really sure how it applies either. I'm just trying to accelerate the typical conversation that happens on here. I'll leave it to stoat for the specifics on squeezing that one in.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: L I on September 23, 2020, 01:34:08 pm
If it’s 1200 over a many year period that means less than one millionth of the American population in a given year. Not that many.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: tylerthegloob on September 23, 2020, 01:39:00 pm
do not bring ben shapiro into it. glob has already been epicly pwnd by facts and logic enough
:cry:
If it’s 1200 over a many year period that means less than one millionth of the American population in a given year. Not that many.
LI when are you gonna learn that feelings dont care about your facts? save that statistical shit for the singularity or some shit when humans are governed by an AI (named helios)
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: L I on September 23, 2020, 01:39:35 pm
The good news is America’s murder rate went down a lot - by thousands a year. Many more lives saved due to increased policing.

After years of decline it’s going up again somewhat (due to the black lives matter movement which which reduced police presence).
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: thunderlips on September 23, 2020, 01:51:20 pm
The good news is America’s murder rate went down a lot - by thousands a year. Many more lives saved due to increased policing.

After years of decline it’s going up again somewhat (due to the black lives matter movement which which reduced police presence).

(https://static.prisonpolicy.org/global/incarceration-rates-nato.png)

Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: 745sticky on September 23, 2020, 01:53:25 pm
After years of decline it’s going up again somewhat (due to the black lives matter movement which which reduced police presence).
...
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Don Hobak on September 23, 2020, 01:54:14 pm
(https://static.prisonpolicy.org/global/incarceration-rates-nato.png)

Not sure if you’re criticizing the American incarceration rate here or crediting it for the drop in violent crime...
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: L I on September 23, 2020, 02:00:12 pm
More criminals in jail = less crime. Absolutely true. The incarcerated population is going down now though and has been for a while. So has crime. More abortion and more free birth control is one reason. Less lead. It’s sad about people stuck in jail and it’s also sad there are so many criminals. But both are a very small percentage of the population.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Mister Tim on September 23, 2020, 02:02:26 pm
Not sure if you’re criticizing the American incarceration rate here or crediting it for the drop in violent crime...

(https://i.gifer.com/3hhC.gif)
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Don Hobak on September 23, 2020, 02:05:19 pm
(https://i.gifer.com/3hhC.gif)

That wouldn’t be binary
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: stoat on September 23, 2020, 02:26:46 pm
Is that Sam Hammington's kid?
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Don Hobak on September 23, 2020, 02:30:30 pm
I understand your confusion, but no, this is:

(https://bolivianexpress3.s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/article_image/0fFdbBiVpI.jpg)
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Liechtenstein on September 23, 2020, 02:31:48 pm
I interpret defund as take away the funding. I wonder what all those defunders will do when anarchy sets in instantly when the police are gone. I'm certain they haven't thought it through.

It's not like the nutters are gonna head straight to the ghetto to steal and pillage and riot. They're heading to Alyssa Milano's pad, man.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on September 23, 2020, 02:35:28 pm
The average person is an idiot when it comes to police and this is because they can't differentiate between reality and movies/TV. They think cops should be able to shoot like John Wick, do a bunch of Ninja-Fu and Parkour, be stunt drivers, paramedics, mental health experts, know the law better than Johnnie Cochrane, be able to do CSI stuff, be as perceptive as Sherlock Holmes, be experts on culture and community relations, be Cesar Milan when it comes to handling dogs, be a brilliant negotiator and psychologist, and who knows what else. All while having at best an associates degree and getting paid a crummy government wage and dealing with the literally the worst elements of society.

If someone criticizes a cop for not being an expert in a field and they aren't a specialized cop, then that person is not part of the adult conversation and can be disregarded.

Either that or people thinks every cop car should be like a shuttlecraft from the Starship Enterprise with an away team ready to hop out and with 6 different experts there. I mean, that is what people want when they start talking about how mental health professionals and community liasons need to be riding along with cops. Basically you need a...

Leader and Authority (The MFing Sisko or Picard I guess)
Community Liason (Kira)
Mental Health Expert (Ezri or Troi)
CSI (Jadzia/Geordi)
Holmes (Odo/Data)
EMT (Bashir/Crusher)
Hand to Hand Guy (Worf/Worf)
Stunt Driver+Roadside Assistance (O'Brien)
Human Lie Detector (Garak/Riker)
Negotiator (Quark)
Be Willing to Take a Bullet (Tasha Yar)
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: stoat on September 23, 2020, 05:23:16 pm
True, in more encouraging news Britain's Got Talent has lost a million viewers since resident dance troop Diversity performed their BLM inspired routine recently. Despite generating 24,500 complaints, Offcom decided it didn't breach any impartiality or appropriacy for family entertainment rules . Instead arguing it was good for social cohesion.  :shocked: Ha, the silent majority makes another stand.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: JNM on September 23, 2020, 06:06:53 pm
US society needs to change if “defund the police” is going to work.

Suspicion of the government is ingrained in the culture, and “socialism“ is a curse-word.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: D.L.Orean on September 24, 2020, 07:20:10 am
True, in more encouraging news Britain's Got Talent has lost a million viewers since resident dance troop Diversity performed their BLM inspired routine recently. Despite generating 24,500 complaints, Offcom decided it didn't breach any impartiality or appropriacy for family entertainment rules . Instead arguing it was good for social cohesion.  :shocked: Ha, the silent majority makes another stand.

What exactly were the complaints?

Just 4% of the 24,500 complaints were made in the immediate aftermath of the programme being aired, suggesting these were people who were offended by the original broadcast after watching it live.

The majority were filed over the following weeks, following repeated news stories about the original number of complaints.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: stoat on September 24, 2020, 08:03:53 am
Why does it matter whether they watched the program or not? People are annoyed and complaining about BLM stuff appearing on non political TV shows as if everyone should automatically be behind the movement. Why do people in England have to watch premier league players openly supporting a Marxist organization that has nothing to do with the policing situation in our country?  You can bet that would never happen  if there were people in the stadiums.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: D.L.Orean on September 24, 2020, 08:51:30 am
Why does it matter whether they watched the program or not? People are annoyed and complaining about BLM stuff appearing on non political TV shows as if everyone should automatically be behind the movement. Why do people in England have to watch premier league players openly supporting a Marxist organization that has nothing to do with the policing situation in our country?  You can bet that would never happen  if there were people in the stadiums.

I thought the left were supposed to be the snowflakes

I guess it doesn't really matter if they watched the program. But if 96% of the complaints were lodged after reading one of the many Daily Mail articles rallying against it instead of after actually watching the performance, it's not very surprising  that the complaints were dismissed.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Liechtenstein on September 24, 2020, 09:00:03 am
How do we know the 96% didn't watch the performance? They may not have watched it on the original airing but they most certainly could have watched it after reading an article or hearing about it, then formed an opinion and then acted upon it.

The BLM movement started as something righteous but has devolved into just another pseudo-terrorist thing. How does rioting, looting, setting fire to businesses and cars etc help black people's lives?
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: fka on September 24, 2020, 09:05:44 am
Same way that being a Canadian troll in the tropics does.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on September 24, 2020, 09:08:53 am
BLM is many things, including a slogan, an organization, a mindset, a broader movement, etc. While often people overlap, it's not cohesive and there can be a vast gulf between people regarding tactics and beliefs.

Now you can certainly call out certain people or groups who proclaim BLM and riot and loot, but the entire movement is not responsible for it anymore than "Free Tibet" would be responsible for some random act of violence by a fringe Tibetan nationalist.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: stoat on September 24, 2020, 09:29:00 am
Quote
I thought the left were supposed to be the snowflakes

They were in the original sense of the word. Nowadays when it basically means anyone who voices their disagreement with something, pretty much everyone is.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: stoat on September 24, 2020, 09:30:46 am
BLM is many things, including a slogan, an organization, a mindset, a broader movement, etc. While often people overlap, it's not cohesive and there can be a vast gulf between people regarding tactics and beliefs.

Now you can certainly call out certain people or groups who proclaim BLM and riot and loot, but the entire movement is not responsible for it anymore than "Free Tibet" would be responsible for some random act of violence by a fringe Tibetan nationalist.

Who was it that said 'Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.' ? I think BLM skipped the first stage though.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: fka on September 24, 2020, 09:36:15 am
Quote
BLM is many things, including a slogan, an organization, a mindset, a broader movement, etc. While often people overlap, it's not cohesive and there can be a vast gulf between people regarding tactics and beliefs.

Now you can certainly call out certain people or groups who proclaim BLM and riot and loot, but the entire movement is not responsible for it anymore than "Free Tibet" would be responsible for some random act of violence by a fringe Tibetan nationalist.

Same goes for the idea that it's a "Marxist organization".  That's like saying the women's suffrage movement was a Quaker organization. My brother organized a local BLM rally that attracted about 1,000 people. He is not a Marxist - in fact, he's a small business owner. There was  no looting, rioting or "terrorism". Same applies to 98% of other BLM activities, as anyone who actually cares about this topic, and isn't simply trying to spread hate, understands.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: thunderlips on September 24, 2020, 09:41:15 am
https://www.google.co.kr/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/09/04/us/blm-protests-peaceful-report-trnd/index.html
93% nonviolent

Infiltration is not a new concept and yes some blm protests turn violent/loot. But the vast majority are peaceful. Remember that hells angels associate that was smashing windows at a auto parts store in mn???

https://www.google.co.kr/amp/s/www.bostonherald.com/2020/07/28/police-hells-angel-sparked-minneapolis-riots-over-floyd/amp/

Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: stoat on September 24, 2020, 09:41:37 am
Same goes for the idea that it's a "Marxist organization".  That's like saying the women's suffrage movement was a Quaker organization. My brother organized a local BLM rally that attracted about 1,000 people. He is not a Marxist - in fact, he's a small business owner. There was  no looting, rioting or "terrorism". Same applies to 98% of other BLM activities, as anyone who actually cares about this topic, and isn't simply trying to spread hate, understands.

It said they were a Marxist organisation on their official website in the 'what we believe' section'. Until they took it down.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: fka on September 24, 2020, 10:06:13 am
Where?

https://web.archive.org/web/20200917194804/https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/ (https://web.archive.org/web/20200917194804/https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/)
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: D.L.Orean on September 24, 2020, 10:13:35 am
Where?

https://web.archive.org/web/20200917194804/https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/ (https://web.archive.org/web/20200917194804/https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/)

It will difficult to find because at no point have they described themselves as "a marxist organization" or have those words ever been on their website.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: fka on September 24, 2020, 10:20:53 am
While there might be something calling itself an official website, to refer to BLM as an organization in the singular fundamentally misunderstands the whole thing. Same with Antifa. We could start an "Antifa - English Teachers in Korea Chapter" tomorrow and do nothing more than exchange memes on Facebook, and it would be just as credible as any other Antifa group. That's the whole point of decentralized activism. Or we could use Facebook to arrange two of us setting a fire outside a bank, in which case it would undoubtedly be described as "Antifa terrorism", despite being the result of two people acting independently.

Although a lot of it is disingenuous bullshit, of course, I'm genuinely surprised at conservatives' apparent lack of understanding around this since they just spent the better part of two decades cheerleading asymmetric warfare in the Middle East. You can't bomb Antifa headquarters, or "expose" Black Lives Matter, any more than you can drive a tank up to the steps of ISIS Palace of Doom, Where All The Bad Guys Live.  Antifa and BLM are basically normal people who occasionally participate in street protests (or, in the case of BLM, fundraisers, voter registration drives, city council meetings, community organizing, etc).
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: stoat on September 24, 2020, 11:07:45 am
My mistake, they said they were Marxists in an interview, it said they wanted to dismantle the nuclear family on the website.

Quote
“We actually do have an ideological frame[work],” Cullors said of her organization. “We are trained Marxists. We are super-versed on, sort of, ideological theories.”

Quote
Meanwhile, the national organization’s official platform, published in 2015, contained a specific call to “[disrupt] the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure.”

https://fee.org/articles/is-black-lives-matter-marxist-no-and-yes/

Good enough for me. Though of course, people organising marches/posting black squares on facebook etc. aren't necessarily aware of this.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: L I on September 24, 2020, 11:20:16 am
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yp9L0tkSoCc
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: 745sticky on September 24, 2020, 11:23:34 am
Watch out guys, L1 posted a video
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: fka on September 24, 2020, 11:28:41 am
My mistake, they said they were Marxists in an interview, it said they wanted to dismantle the nuclear family on the website.

https://fee.org/articles/is-black-lives-matter-marxist-no-and-yes/

Good enough for me. Though of course, people organising marches/posting black squares on facebook etc. aren't necessarily aware of this.

Well, an opinion piece from a right-wing think tank with ties to Praeger U isn't good enough for me. It contains some seriously goofy shit.

Quote
These kinds of conservative criticisms of Black Lives Matter are widespread. And on one hand, they’re right: The official Black Lives Matter organization is Marxist, is anti-American in its values, and its views are rightfully alarming to anyone who believes in the Constitution, capitalism, and civil society as we know it.

What does "anti-American" even mean? It probably has a different meaning for literally every person you ask. Those of us who were against the Iraq war were called anti-American, and now the President claims that position for himself. Shallow, meaningless nonsense.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: fka on September 24, 2020, 11:29:50 am
Watch out guys, L1 posted a video

A video of people you've never heard of, saying some overheated things at rallies. Shocking.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: tylerthegloob on September 24, 2020, 11:52:15 am
Watch out guys, L1 posted a video

****

[edit: sorry i had a kiddie tantrum :( ]
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on September 24, 2020, 11:57:10 am
it seems 90% of people out there can't see a group of people in ideological opposition to themselves without assuming they're some sort of international terror group bent on world domination. It's like people freaking out about the Tea Party of a bunch of people in MAGA hats. "OMG look at the Nazis. I saw some video where they picked out the most extreme crazy guy in general proximity who said extreme crazy crap- They all think like that!!!!!"

Why do so many people on this site constantly shit themselves in fear? MUSLIMS!!!!! TRUMP!!!!!!!! BLM!!!!!!!! KOREA TIMES!!!!!!!! GEORGE SOROS!!!!!!

The reverse of this is the people who fanboy JOHN STOSSEL!!!!!!! JORDAN PETERSON!!!!!!! DAVID PAKMAN!!!!! BEN SHAPIRO!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: 745sticky on September 24, 2020, 12:02:46 pm
it seems 90% of people out there can't see a group of people in ideological opposition to themselves without assuming they're some sort of international terror group bent on world domination. It's like people freaking out about the Tea Party of a bunch of people in MAGA hats. "OMG look at the Nazis. I saw some video where they picked out the most extreme crazy guy in general proximity who said extreme crazy crap- They all think like that!!!!!"

Why do so many people on this site constantly shit themselves in fear? MUSLIMS!!!!! TRUMP!!!!!!!! BLM!!!!!!!! KOREA TIMES!!!!!!!! GEORGE SOROS!!!!!!

The reverse of this is the people who fanboy JOHN STOSSEL!!!!!!! JORDAN PETERSON!!!!!!! DAVID PAKMAN!!!!! BEN SHAPIRO!!!!!!!

This is possibly the most centrist take I've seen from you yet.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: tylerthegloob on September 24, 2020, 12:06:15 pm
JOHN STOSSEL!!!!!!! JORDAN PETERSON!!!!!!! DAVID PAKMAN!!!!! BEN SHAPIRO!!!!!!!

except we've seen a (metric) ***load of stossel and peterson links on this site and only a few pakmans (tbh i havent seen any but i'm trying to be fair).

conclusion: open the shapiro floodgates
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: 745sticky on September 24, 2020, 12:12:02 pm
except we've seen a (metric) ***load of stossel and peterson links on this site and only a few pakmans (tbh i havent seen any but i'm trying to be fair).

conclusion: open the shapiro floodgates

Let’s say, hypothetically, you’ve been a naughty girl even, ok, and if you were a naughty girl you would also be my dirty little **** right? Then hypothetically speaking you would be my little *******. Now let’s say that you’re also daddy’s girl, now that we’ve established you’re both a bad girl and daddy’s girl, then I believe you’d agree with me when I say that you deserve a spanking, am I not correct? A bad girl deserves a spanking and as I am daddy, you are my girl, so I am the one who must provide punishment.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: tylerthegloob on September 24, 2020, 12:15:07 pm
thanks, i hate it. DEACTIVATE ME KYNDOOOOOOOO
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Kyndo on September 24, 2020, 12:35:30 pm
 No. You might've caught whatever it is that's afflicting 745sticky.
I'm not getting anywhere close to either of you.
 :huh:
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: hangook77 on September 24, 2020, 12:42:05 pm
I was a case manager/resident advocate in a mens homeless shelter. I personally only had to call the police once out of two years working there. These guys had a wide variety of issues; mental health, drug addiction, post prison supervision, serious health issues. So I don't think finding applicants will be a problem.

You're also in a controlled environment and not showing up to an unknown environment or stopping a robbery or murder in progress.  But the way this is going, you won't have to defund the police, many will just avoid it as a career and many are retiring early.  In the 1970's and 1980's most big cities, especially New York, crime was through the roof.  In the 90's, Giuliani cleaned it up.  (Crime went way down.)  I even remember most adults talking about it at the time ans saying how bad it use to be before.  Bloomberg for all his nonsense, did keep most of Giuliani's law and order stuff in place.  But his (Bloomberg) banning sugar soda and other nanny state stuff was weird.  Now, he's bitter that he couldn't be rich and get the Democratic nomination so now he's trying to spend lots of money in Florida to beat Trump.  But, if he want's to waste hundreds of millions of dollars so be it. 
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: thunderlips on September 24, 2020, 01:07:37 pm
You're also in a controlled environment and not showing up to an unknown environment or stopping a robbery or murder in progress.  But the way this is going, you won't have to defund the police, many will just avoid it as a career and many are retiring early.  In the 1970's and 1980's most big cities, especially New York, crime was through the roof.  In the 90's, Giuliani cleaned it up.  (Crime went way down.)  I even remember most adults talking about it at the time ans saying how bad it use to be before.  Bloomberg for all his nonsense, did keep most of Giuliani's law and order stuff in place.  But his (Bloomberg) banning sugar soda and other nanny state stuff was weird.  Now, he's bitter that he couldn't be rich and get the Democratic nomination so now he's trying to spend lots of money in Florida to beat Trump.  But, if he want's to waste hundreds of millions of dollars so be it. 

Hardly controlled. At any time I would have to ban a client due to any number of infractions. Which could lead to them being in violation of their post prison supervision. How that person would deal with that was always an unknown. But please tell me more about my previous job.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Liechtenstein on September 24, 2020, 01:14:50 pm
Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson, Candace Owens et al are the only sensible people out there today. They are the true heroes. Unafraid to speak the truth when the screaming leftist snowflakes all run to their safe place (after spewing hatred and burning down an innocent bystander's business) while pointing their fingers and "Look, there goes the bad guy." a la Tony Montana.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: 745sticky on September 24, 2020, 01:21:20 pm
Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson, Candace Owens et al are the only sensible people out there today. They are the true heroes. Unafraid to speak the truth when the screaming leftist snowflakes all run to their safe place (after spewing hatred and burning down an innocent bystander's business) while pointing their fingers and "Look, there goes the bad guy." a la Tony Montana.

I'm gonna go ahead and assume this is sarcasm
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on September 24, 2020, 01:28:05 pm
Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson, Candace Owens et al are the only sensible people out there today. They are the true heroes. Unafraid to speak the truth when the screaming leftist snowflakes all run to their safe place (after spewing hatred and burning down an innocent bystander's business) while pointing their fingers and "Look, there goes the bad guy." a la Tony Montana.
Like most people, all three make some good points about some things. They also have some bad takes on other things. You can see their limitations though- Shapiro and Peterson both seem to have a stick up their rear and don't know when to relax and be charming. Candace Owens is spectacularly bad at what she's supposed to do- Reach out to black voters. She is good with a certain subset of black voter, but she says some things that are just complete facepalms and make clear her lack of ability to connect. I mean, I'm not even black and it's that obvious.

I want to hear black conservatives who are comfortable being black and being around black people and are active in the black community. I don't want to listen to black people who fled to the suburbs and avoid blackness on black issues. I'm happy to listen to them on other issues (i.e. Condi Rice on national security) but if you aren't even comfortable with your own community, you can't claim to speak for or represent it. I will say she does a good job addressing things like economics, education, upward mobility, etc. in the black community, but not things like policing, race, etc. And there was one tweet of hers, I can't remember but it was recent and relating to a cop shooting, and it was just like "Man.....that's like one step away from Uncle Ruckus territory." When someone who leans right thinks you're engaged in something beyond tokenism and into...I can't say the word but some of you know it...territory", that should be a sign.  Like I've never tossed that label onto any black conservative and what they say, but that tweet I was like "There's no other way to describe it." Say what you will about Herman Cain or Thomas Sowell or Condi Rice or Ben Carson, never thought those terms applied to them. The only other person I've seen like that has been Michelle Malkin. What would the Asian word for that be? Squirrling? Yellowing? or just call everyone doing that Ruckusing?

https://twitter.com/RealCandaceO/status/1265123322615992322
https://twitter.com/RealCandaceO/status/1273729932993204224

Candace Owens is not Sam Hemington, and I think both get too much grief, but if you want to understand how a lot of black folks see Candace, just look at Sam.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: stoat on September 24, 2020, 01:58:41 pm
Quote
I want to hear black conservatives who are comfortable being black and being around black people and are active in the black community. I don't want to listen to black people who fled to the suburbs and avoid blackness on black issues. I'm happy to listen to them on other issues (i.e. Condi Rice on national security) but if you aren't even comfortable with your own community, you can't claim to speak for or represent it.

Isn't 'black issues'. 'blackness' 'comfortable being black etc.' the kind of identity politics lingo most black conservatives would be speaking against? 
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: tylerthegloob on September 24, 2020, 02:37:40 pm
the christian right (including black conservatives) loves to play the (christian) identity politics game, so i don't know why they'd have any problems with the left playing the (racial) identity politics game
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Savant on September 24, 2020, 02:49:22 pm
the christian right (including black conservatives) loves to play the (christian) identity politics game, so i don't know why they'd have any problems with the left playing the (racial) identity politics game

The Left want to destroy Christmas and White Jesus!!!
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: stoat on September 24, 2020, 02:50:25 pm
Christianity is a set of beliefs, not an immutable characteristic so I wouldn't characterise it as identity politics.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: tylerthegloob on September 24, 2020, 03:00:39 pm
Christianity is a set of beliefs, not an immutable characteristic so I wouldn't characterise it as identity politics.

being black is not engaging in identity politics. it is immutable.
being christian is not engaging in identity politics. it is (allegedly!) mutable.
anyone can use any part of their identity to engage in identity politics.

i'm not exactly sure what you mean. are you saying that only mutable identities (ex. one's christianity) should be used when engaging in identity politics? or are you saying that christians don't engage in identity politics?
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: stoat on September 24, 2020, 03:08:18 pm
To me identity politics is grouping people together under an immutable characteristic and assuming they think the same way about certain things.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: tylerthegloob on September 24, 2020, 03:16:56 pm
i mean thats a cool definition and all, but thats not really what identity politics is
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: stoat on September 24, 2020, 03:23:50 pm
it is my truth. What gives you the right as a white male to deny it?
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: 745sticky on September 24, 2020, 03:26:34 pm
it is my truth. What gives you the right as a white male to deny it?

Who says Tyler is a white male? Didn't you see the Ben Shapiro quote I wrote about them?
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: stoat on September 24, 2020, 03:27:49 pm
Tyler uses 'they' 'them' pronouns?
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: fka on September 24, 2020, 04:22:21 pm
Quote
I want to hear black conservatives who are comfortable being black and being around black people and are active in the black community.

I want to hear from white Canadians and Brits who've never lived in America and don't know anything about American history.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: stoat on September 24, 2020, 04:33:32 pm
I want to hear from white Canadians and Brits who've never lived in America and don't know anything about American history.

Exactly the point I was making about BLM encroaching on UK football and talent shows. Different histories and all that.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Don Hobak on September 24, 2020, 04:38:57 pm
Exactly the point I was making about BLM encroaching on UK football and talent shows. Different histories and all that.

Weird how people around the world have found solidarity with the BLM cause... Must’ve taken an American history course at uni or something.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: stoat on September 24, 2020, 04:42:05 pm
No, just haven't thought about it too much
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Don Hobak on September 24, 2020, 04:46:48 pm
No, just haven't thought about it too much

That explains it
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: stoat on September 24, 2020, 04:52:57 pm
Yep, 'George Floyd death bad', 'racism bad', is about the limit for most people in the UK I'd say.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Savant on September 24, 2020, 07:20:45 pm
Exactly the point I was making about BLM encroaching on UK football and talent shows. Different histories and all that.

How exactly are they encroaching and why does it bother you so?
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: stoat on September 24, 2020, 07:59:39 pm
It's a political movement many people don't agree with making everyone take the knee at sporting events and pushing some kind of message in entertainment programs. Would you expect to see a defund the BBC dance performance on Britain's got Talent, for example or everyone being coerced to raise a pro-Brexit fist in the air before a cricket match?  It bothers me because it's paving the way for things like forced unconscious bias training at companies, obligatory reading of 'White Fragility' at schools, and other nonsense like that. They bully people into accepting all this by the inference that anyone who doesn't wholeheartedly support them must be a racist who thinks black lives don't matter.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Savant on September 24, 2020, 09:08:56 pm
It's a political movement many people don't agree with making everyone take the knee at sporting events and pushing some kind of message in entertainment programs. Would you expect to see a defund the BBC dance performance on Britain's got Talent, for example or everyone being coerced to raise a pro-Brexit fist in the air before a cricket match?  It bothers me because it's paving the way for things like forced unconscious bias training at companies, obligatory reading of 'White Fragility' at schools, and other nonsense like that. They bully people into accepting all this by the inference that anyone who doesn't wholeheartedly support them must be a racist who thinks black lives don't matter.

1) Not everyone is made to take the knee at sporting events. Many choose to because they believe in injustice.
2) A defund the BBC dance would be incredibly boring.
3) Cricket is equally boring and attended by middle-class Brexit supporters, anyway.
4) "Unconscious bias" training = don't be a prick about it at work.
5) Schools are already way under-funded to put such a book on the curriculum.
6) Do you not support or at least understand why the black lives matter movement exists? Denying that there is no injustice towards black people in society could be considered racist or at best putting your head in the sand.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: stoat on September 24, 2020, 11:29:50 pm
Quote
. 6) Do you not support or at least understand why the black lives matter movement exists? Denying that there is no injustice towards black people in society could be considered racist or at best putting your head in the sand.   

You're making my point for me. Not supporting BLM means you think racism doesn't exist and are therefore a racist. That's how they get everyone in the premier league to take the knee and why Ofcom didn't do anything about all the complaints.

How about, I think racism exists and it's bad, and George Floyd shouldn't have been killed, but don't think the UK police are systemically racist?
How about racism exists and is bad and George Floyd shouldn't have been killed, but statistically encounters with US police do not result in black people being killed at a higher rate than other races?
How about racism exists and it's bad and George Floyd shouldn't have been killed, but I don't believe the police should be defunded and mental health workers should take on some of their roles?
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Don Hobak on September 25, 2020, 12:35:03 am
1) Not everyone is made to take the knee at sporting events. Many choose to because they believe in injustice.

I would hope the act demonstrates that they believe in justice as well!

I don't believe the police should be defunded and mental health workers should take on some of their roles

Surely it makes sense to you to have mental health workers replace police for routine traffic violations.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: L I on September 25, 2020, 01:35:10 am
In the 1992 presidential campaign, presumptive Democratic nominee Bill Clinton clearly and unreservedly denounced a black rapper named Sister Souljah who had called for the killing of white people. Moreover, Clinton did so at a gathering of the Rev. Jesse Jackson’s Rainbow Coalition, where Souljah herself had spoken the previous day. Jackson was furious at Clinton, but the incident reassured voters that the Arkansas governor wasn’t beholden to the furthest left elements of his coalition. Clinton’s “Sister Souljah moment” became political shorthand for having the courage—and basic tactical good sense—to call out lunatic extremism on one’s own side.
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/joe-biden-kshama-sawant-moment
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Savant on September 25, 2020, 06:41:34 am
I would hope the act demonstrates that they believe in justice as well!

Of course! Bad turn of words on my part.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Liechtenstein on September 25, 2020, 10:53:01 am
To me identity politics is grouping people together under an immutable characteristic and assuming they think the same way about certain things.

Kinda like how the left describes all Trump supporters as racists eh.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Kyndo on September 25, 2020, 11:01:45 am
Nah: racism isn't an immutable characteristic. Trump supporters could choose to not be racist if they wanted to.  :smiley:
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: stoat on September 25, 2020, 11:07:34 am
Quote
Nah: racism isn't an immutable characteristic

I think there's many in BLM who would disagree with that.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Kyndo on September 25, 2020, 11:09:20 am
There are extremists in nearly every group, unfortunately.  :sad:
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: stoat on September 25, 2020, 11:51:17 am
There are extremists in nearly every group, unfortunately.  :sad:

I think you'll find the idea that white people are inherently racist is pretty mainstream these days.:sad: White Fragility tops the best seller list for example

https://www.libraryjournal.com/?detailStory=White-Fragility-Tops-Antiracist-Bestsellers-bookpulse
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Kyndo on September 25, 2020, 11:56:59 am
Well, not to split hairs or anything, but it makes sense that a book with strong commentary on racism would top the Anti-racist Bestsellers list lol.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: stoat on September 25, 2020, 12:09:59 pm
My mistake, here's another

https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/books/2020/06/10/anti-racist-books-dominate-best-seller-list-white-fragility-how-to-be-an-antiracist-ta-nehisi-coates/5331188002/
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Don Hobak on September 25, 2020, 12:11:32 pm
I think you'll find the idea that white people are inherently racist is pretty mainstream these days.:sad: White Fragility tops the best seller list for example

I haven’t read the book and I kinda doubt you have either, but I doubt it says racism is immutable in white people. I’m not trying to rag on you, but I do see some irony in you bringing up a book of that title as your posts consistently revealed you to be one of the more fragile posters on this forum. I’m sorry you think some outspoken people who got some media attention have pegged you as a racist, but as Kyndo said, extremist are everywhere and perhaps it would lower your blood pressure a bit to not get so worked up by it, or at least not take it so personally.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: shanebarry1986 on September 25, 2020, 12:38:50 pm
But the vast majority are peaceful.

The vast majority of June 12, 1994 was peaceful for Nicole Brown Simpson. People (RACISTS) always focus on the few minutes when she was stabbed seven times in the neck and scalp, and had a 14 cm-long (5.5 inches) gash across her throat, which had severed both her left and right carotid arteries and breached her right and left jugular veins. which is total BS; it was MOSTLY PEACEFUL.

Because they are RACIST facsists.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: stoat on September 25, 2020, 12:40:19 pm
I haven’t read the book and I kinda doubt you have either, but I doubt it says racism is immutable in white people. I’m not trying to rag on you, but I do see some irony in you bringing up a book of that title as your posts consistently revealed you to be one of the more fragile posters on this forum. I’m sorry you think some outspoken people who got some media attention have pegged you as a racist, but as Kyndo said, extremist are everywhere and perhaps it would lower your blood pressure a bit to not get so worked up by it, or at least not take it so personally.

I'd say the most fragile posters on here are always the ones who start making things personal.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: D.L.Orean on September 25, 2020, 12:42:41 pm
I'd say the most fragile posters on here are always the ones who start making things personal.

That's exactly what the most fragile posters would say.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: stoat on September 25, 2020, 12:45:00 pm
That's exactly what the most fragile posters would say.

It's basic netiquette.  Sure I've done it myself on occasion but try not to.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Liechtenstein on September 25, 2020, 01:03:48 pm
Me. Not fragile. Nor will I apologize for being white, or being born in a rich country to a very comfortable privileged life. Nor will I accept the concept of white guilt thrown at me. I have no guilt. I am not racist. As most do if you're honest, certainly every person I have ever met, I have my moments. But racist...no. I cannot condone acting like anarchists because you feel wronged. 

This world is in a turmoil the likes I have never seen, all in the name of peace, ironically.

Can't we all just get along.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: 745sticky on September 25, 2020, 01:11:20 pm
"Not Fraige.jpg"
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on September 25, 2020, 01:22:08 pm
The idea that only white people can be racist should be patently absurd on its face. Trying to explain away someone black or Asian or Hispanic being racist to another person as something other than racism because of power structure or whatever is just word-thinking.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: CO2 on September 25, 2020, 01:24:03 pm
The idea that only white people can be racist should be patently absurd on its face. Trying to explain away someone black or Asian or Hispanic being racist to another person as something other than racism because of power structure or whatever is just word-thinking.
Imagine telling someone that you can't be racist towards them, only prejudiced.

Like, yeah, please admit to me   again  that you're a total piece of shit?
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Savant on September 25, 2020, 01:25:57 pm
The vast majority of June 12, 1994 was peaceful for Nicole Brown Simpson. People (RACISTS) always focus on the few minutes when she was stabbed seven times in the neck and scalp, and had a 14 cm-long (5.5 inches) gash across her throat, which had severed both her left and right carotid arteries and breached her right and left jugular veins. which is total BS; it was MOSTLY PEACEFUL.

Because they are RACIST facsists.

Was there a point in all of that rambling on?
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: thunderlips on September 25, 2020, 01:28:34 pm
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/49aea13eca58b390f45bb65da143f1c2/tenor.gif?itemid=15822959)
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Don Hobak on September 25, 2020, 01:44:23 pm
The vast majority of June 12, 1994 was peaceful for Nicole Brown Simpson. People (RACISTS) always focus on the few minutes when she was stabbed seven times in the neck and scalp, and had a 14 cm-long (5.5 inches) gash across her throat, which had severed both her left and right carotid arteries and breached her right and left jugular veins. which is total BS; it was MOSTLY PEACEFUL.

Because they are RACIST facsists.

You’re from Ireland, nah?

Oj a big name there? Still got people talking?
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: tylerthegloob on September 25, 2020, 01:48:17 pm
he's trying to move to oklahoma though
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: fka on September 25, 2020, 02:03:31 pm
Every time shanebarry posts something, I imagine a red-faced drunk with bloodshot eyes and long gray hair, leaning out of a car window and screaming some variation on "I'M NOT RACIST!!!" at startled pedestrians standing at a crosswalk.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Kyndo on September 25, 2020, 02:09:53 pm
"Not Fraige.jpg"
Not to be confused with "Paige no".jpg
 :huh:
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: shanebarry1986 on September 25, 2020, 02:34:10 pm
Every time shanebarry posts something, I imagine a red-faced drunk with bloodshot eyes and long gray hair, leaning out of a car window and screaming some variation on "I'M NOT RACIST!!!" at startled pedestrians standing at a crosswalk.

I don't have a car.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: shanebarry1986 on September 25, 2020, 02:35:17 pm
You’re from Ireland, nah?

Oj a big name there? Still got people talking?

No, I've never heard of Oj.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: shanebarry1986 on September 25, 2020, 02:39:11 pm
he's trying to move to oklahoma though

Alabama or Georgia. We're being gifted a house in one of these states. Oklahoma would be awesome though. It has unrestricted concealed carry, Alabama and Georgia are shall-issue.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: shanebarry1986 on September 25, 2020, 02:40:27 pm
Was there a point in all of that rambling on?

To provoke you into posting a response.

4/10 Too easy.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on September 25, 2020, 02:52:49 pm
You’re from Ireland, nah?

Oj a big name there? Still got people talking?
We're getting an Orange Julius?
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on September 25, 2020, 02:54:13 pm
Alabama or Georgia. We're being gifted a house in one of these states. Oklahoma would be awesome though. It has unrestricted concealed carry, Alabama and Georgia are shall-issue.
Georgia please. Need to keep it red.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: stoat on September 25, 2020, 02:54:23 pm
Quote
DiAngelo proposes that we instead think of racism as a worldview that’s inevitably formed, and reinforced, by a racist society whose institutions deem Whiteness as a neutral standard. Instead of imagining themselves on either side of a bad/good binary of racist or not racist, she suggests that all White people reimagine themselves as occupying a movable position on a continuum of racism.
It probably isn’t possible to totally escape that continuum, she says; racism is so deeply embedded in society that it informs every facet of our experience and perspective

Anyone going to try and claim she doesn't think white people are inherently racist?
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: fka on September 25, 2020, 03:00:41 pm
I don't have a car.

That's okay. Walking around with a bottle of Dewar's in a brown paper bag and screaming "I'M NOT RACIST!!!" in the faces of random bystanders will basically have the same effect as your posts. Gotta watch out in those red states, though - poorly funded public services increase your chance of a violent encounter with police. Stay safe!
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: 745sticky on September 25, 2020, 03:08:33 pm
That's okay. Walking around with a bottle of Dewar's in a brown paper bag and screaming "I'M NOT RACIST!!!" in the faces of random bystanders will basically have the same effect as your posts. Gotta watch out in those red states, though - poorly funded public services increase your chance of a violent encounter with police. Stay safe!

He's white, he'll be fine (probably)
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: tylerthegloob on September 25, 2020, 03:09:14 pm
Georgia please. Need to keep it red.

grossjust stay out of new england

Anyone going to try and claim she doesn't think white people are inherently racist?

who cares?
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: D.L.Orean on September 25, 2020, 03:15:35 pm
grossjust stay out of new england

who cares?

Soon this will become required reading in schools

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/C1hkIcGE7OAcE/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Don Hobak on September 25, 2020, 03:20:04 pm
His anticipation of his new rights as a US citizen makes me think more of Borat. Moving to America for the gun laws and to play an active role in its culture wars; this is the new American immigrant.

(https://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/b/b0/Borat_M2_02.jpg/600px-Borat_M2_02.jpg)

You’re sure you’re from Ireland?
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: stoat on September 25, 2020, 03:33:39 pm
Quote
who cares?
You don't think there's any connection between these anti-racism as a religion kinds of ideas and the civil unrest that's going on in the US at the moment? Fair enough, I personally don't want that cr-p to come over to the UK and have riots every time something bad happens to a black person.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on September 25, 2020, 03:57:49 pm
Anti-racism and Wokeism are various  offshoots off the same Leftist religion.

Lefties think because they don't practice a religion, they are immune to its impulses and trappings. FFS we're already seeing woke white people engage in the equivalent of flagellant processions simply to prove their faith and thinking that it will exorcise some mythic racist demon from society. 

Anti-racism fundamentalism is so ridiculous, you could probably get its adherents to endorse pedophilia if it was in opposition to those they perceive of as "Racists".
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: fka on September 25, 2020, 04:50:31 pm
And yet, if you look at this thread, we've got stoat flipping out about a book he hasn't read and trembling about Marxist insurgents like we're in Central America in 1986, shanebarry doing one of his driveby howls against racism accusations, even though nobody called him or anyone else racist, Lichtenstein stomping his sandaled feet about anarchy, pillaging, and white guilt from his hut in the tropics, while hangook77 leaks brain puke about Michael Bloomberg banning "sugar soda".
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: waygo0k on September 25, 2020, 04:53:08 pm
It's a political movement many people don't agree with making everyone take the knee at sporting events and pushing some kind of message in entertainment programs. Would you expect to see a defund the BBC dance performance on Britain's got Talent, for example or everyone being coerced to raise a pro-Brexit fist in the air before a cricket match?  It bothers me because it's paving the way for things like forced unconscious bias training at companies, obligatory reading of 'White Fragility' at schools, and other nonsense like that. They bully people into accepting all this by the inference that anyone who doesn't wholeheartedly support them must be a racist who thinks black lives don't matter.

Certain people: "silly libs. Why do you get so easily offended by racism I proclaim doesn't exist in your reality? Ha! Snowflakes!"

Same certain people: "ErMaHgHaRd HoW dArE tHeSe PeOpLe dO a DaNcE rOuTiNe I dIsAgrEe WiTh oN a Tv ShOw?!?!?! I iZ sOoOoOoO oFfEnDeD!!!"
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: fka on September 25, 2020, 05:48:31 pm
It's hard for those of us who value freedom of speech and oppose cancel culture to understand the mentality of someone like stoat, with his insatiable desire to ban books and punish the BBC for broadcasting problematic dance routines.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on September 25, 2020, 05:58:22 pm
And yet, if you look at this thread, we've got stoat flipping out about a book he hasn't read and trembling about Marxist insurgents like we're in Central America in 1986, shanebarry doing one of his driveby howls against racism accusations, even though nobody called him or anyone else racist, Lichtenstein stomping his sandaled feet about anarchy, pillaging, and white guilt from his hut in the tropics, while hangook77 leaks brain puke about Michael Bloomberg banning "sugar soda".
We already knew the "War on Christmas" right was batcrap crazy.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: stoat on September 25, 2020, 09:58:40 pm
It's hard for those of us who value freedom of speech and oppose cancel culture to understand the mentality of someone like stoat, with his insatiable desire to ban books and punish the BBC for broadcasting problematic dance routines.

Is  'Stoat wants to ban books' really your best effort? It's the kind of line Mayorhagger would come up with. Still, nobody's advocating banning books or punishing the BBC (it was on ITV anyway) Of course people can read what they want and watch what they want, though presumably you think there should be some general agreement made about what kids are taught at school, or do you think it should be up to the individual teacher to decide?  As for the BBC, defunding them wouldn't be punishing them at all, if they were any good, letting them compete in the open market would give them the opportunity to make far more money.  If they want to continue to survive off tax payers money, however,  they should adhere to the neutrality laws.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: gogators! on September 26, 2020, 02:33:29 am
I don't see why most police officers would object to help from professionally trained social workers and the like. It would give them more time for the side jobs that pay them so well.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: NorthStar on September 26, 2020, 04:54:54 am
No, I've never heard of Oj.

You can find a synonym for the word....."guilty".
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: T_Rex on September 26, 2020, 07:15:16 am
Do BLM activists ever protest black-on-black violence? That results in a lot more black lives being lost than police intervention.
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: stoat on September 26, 2020, 08:02:51 am
Quote
Certain people: "silly libs. Why do you get so easily offended by racism I proclaim doesn't exist in your reality? Ha! Snowflakes!"

Same certain people: "ErMaHgHaRd HoW dArE tHeSe PeOpLe dO a DaNcE rOuTiNe I dIsAgrEe WiTh oN a Tv ShOw?!?!?! I iZ sOoOoOoO oFfEnDeD!!!"

Yeah, different people have different opinions about what should or shouldn't be banned. Is that such a difficult concept to grasp?
Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: NorthStar on September 26, 2020, 08:39:34 am
Do BLM activists ever protest black-on-black violence? That results in a lot more black lives being lost than police intervention.

Nope, they do not. 

Police intervention can only be sustained by being allowed to their jobs.  In these cases, Democrat cities, they are not.  And, when they are not allowed to do their jobs, the Democunt powers that be, running those cities and instituting their policies, they blame others.

Title: Re: Defund the police
Post by: fka on September 26, 2020, 09:40:29 am
Is  'Stoat wants to ban books' really your best effort? It's the kind of line Mayorhagger would come up with. Still, nobody's advocating banning books or punishing the BBC.  Of course people can read what they want and watch what they want, though presumably you think there should be some general agreement made about what kids are taught at school, or do you think it should be up to the individual teacher to decide?  As for the BBC, defunding them wouldn't be punishing them at all, if they were any good, letting them compete in the open market would give them the opportunity to make far more money.  If they want to continue to survive off tax payers money, however,  they should adhere to the neutrality laws.

"Hey, I saw your Instagram posts from Friday night. What were you doing?"

"I took a joke way too seriously then used my completely unnecessary response as a springboard to continue my tirade about the BBC showing a dance routine that I didn't like."

"Wow! Jealous! 8)!"

Dippedinblush, if you ever fulfill your dream of taking stoat for a beer, can I recommend that you visit a comedy club? Imagine the boundless mirth.

This comic thinks his mother-in-law is interfering and overbearing. He should try engaging with the substance of her arguments rather than subjecting her to ad hominems on stage. The use of ad hominems is the first sign that you've lost the argument.

He thinks it's okay to imitate his Cuban father's accent and hand gestures, but will we see him do the same for a black woman? Such hypocrisy. Typical leftist. But I guess that's the new upside-down world that Karl Marx and Jean-Francois Lyotard have left for us. We are truly living in Orwell's 1984.

Comic: "How many of you were too drunk to remember the first time you had sex?"
Ugh. Boring. I've been here for 45 minutes and haven't heard a single joke about a man in a dress, or a woman with hairy armpits. Why doesn't this guy talk about something people actually care about, like the Cathy Newman interview? War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery.

Comic: "Is there anyone from Newcastle here tonight?"
Stoat: "No, but do you want to see my black crime statistics?"