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Symposium => "Open" Discussions => Topic started by: fruitloops on April 21, 2020, 09:45:20 pm

Title: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: fruitloops on April 21, 2020, 09:45:20 pm
While most of the world is still struggling, reaching their peak, and hitting their highs, Korea has been under control for a very long time.
The numbers have been going down everyday and when I last checked, it was down to only about 11 to 18 new cases (per day) which is amazing.   

What I don't understand is why everyone is still so afraid to get the ball rolling again and start up school? Even if not all at the same time,
why not just gradually start it up again?  I mentioned how they could roll out a system where only a small group come to school each day
(like per grade) and divide them up into smaller groups and they can take all their classes for the day and go home for the week.

Than gradually ramp it  up in week 2 and week 3 and so on until 100% are all back?   Are they actually expecting to just turn it on like
a switch and send all 6 million students back to school in one day?  Really??? I don't need to be an expert in any field to know that isn't
the smartest or most logical way to do it.   You need to gradually get it going.  It's unlikely you'll ever have 0 cases until a vaccine comes out in 18 months because there will always be a few cases lingering around.

Here are a couple things that confuse and frustrate me about this.  Recently a couple students came back to our school but only for
"day care" sort of thing.  It's just 2 or 3 of them and a couple of them are even siblings (brother and sister).  They have been in the school for over a week now and doing games, worksheets, watching tv, going to a couple different classrooms with different "care"
teachers.

I noticed during lunch they had the 3 kids sit in 3 separate tables about 6 feet apart from each other in their care room.  It was funny
because why do you need to do this when the students already have mingled and been physically close with each other all day and week???  Mind you two of them are siblings! Hello! They come from the same house where they share the same rooms, meals, and probably wrestle each other just before getting to school.  Then when they arrive, they have to put on masks and sit 6 feet apart from each other??? For what? LOL.  I don't get that.   

This to me sums up the overreacting and paranoia that is really irritating.    Here's another example.  Everyday the teachers come out and we had lunch together outside at a restaurant.  We all headed there in masks and when we got there, we sat together at the tables and shared side dishes and ate together LOL.  WHAT THE HAAAAAYYYell?  I don't get it.  Why are we even wearing masks if we are going to eat from the same side dishes and share our germs LOL.   Obviously nobody is sick and nobody has the virus if we already doing that.

But I understand it's the policies that are going to be put in place even long after the real threat is gone....until a vaccine comes out a year later, we're going to continue this social distancing and odd rules when clearly we really don't need to.  I could understand if this was New York City and we had 80,000 cases in the city alone.  But no.  We have 0 cases in the city...probably only a couple dozen in the entire province and I don't know how much longer we are going to be like this.

This whole situation reminds me of the Hot Shots jail scene when the prisoner actually crawls out of the jail cell to reach the keys on the ground and then goes back into the jail cell to unlock himself! Uhhhh u were already free...didn't need the key.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhEWKSoAQdg
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: Colburnnn on April 22, 2020, 07:24:25 am
Yeah don't get me started on the sharing food thing.

Got called into the office to prepare for online teaching a few weeks back, there was a social distance thing on my desk. Basically every other desk had to go and work in a classroom. Excellent! Come in the next day and everyone is in the office. I ask, and hear the reply. ''Yeah that was only for the day'' WHa Whaaaa WHAT?? How is that logical in any shape or form.

Every lunch time the Korean teachers order and sit next to each other, chewing loudly (spit coming out their mouths) dipping used chopsticks into a communal noodle dish, laughing with food in their mouths. Then, back to masks.

I live next to a futsal park and the past few weeks have been busier than ever. Don't try and tell me schools should be closed when there is blatant shit going on outside of school time that makes school closures pointless. The whole thing is just a complete joke.

In Korea, looking like you are doing something is more important than actually doing something.
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: CO2 on April 22, 2020, 07:49:39 am
Speak for yourself.  I'm digging this online class format and wouldn't mind doing this forever.  I'd much prefer uploading 3 pre-recorded videos a week with worksheets than 22 offline classes a week of apathetic and rude students that can't put together 1 sentence in English.  Korea made a great decision with the online classes.

Yeah, I have pre-rec and I'm loving this.  Get creative, practice with my camera. Not so bad.
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: tylerthegloob on April 22, 2020, 07:49:57 am
fruitloops might be my new favorite troll
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on April 22, 2020, 08:01:47 am
Come in the next day and everyone is in the office. I ask, and hear the reply. ''Yeah that was only for the day'' WHa Whaaaa WHAT?? How is that logical in any shape or form.[/u]


Korea, the place where logic comes to die.
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: Colburnnn on April 22, 2020, 08:02:38 am
Speak for yourself.  I'm digging this online class format and wouldn't mind doing this forever.  I'd much prefer uploading 3 pre-recorded videos a week with worksheets than 22 offline classes a week of apathetic and rude students that can't put together 1 sentence in English.  Korea made a great decision with the online classes.

Then move back home and look for a job doing the same. The reason you are here is for the students to interact with you, gaining exposure to more than just the weak material provided in the Korean textbooks. Why employ someone to live here when they could pay someone half the money to plonk some stuff on a website three times a week the other side of the world.

The face to face interactions with the students are what make this job worthwhile.

Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: OnNut81 on April 22, 2020, 08:08:42 am
I was told the plan now is in May the oldest grade of high school is going to head back and they are going to gradually start bringing other grades in starting from high down to elementary keeping an eye on how things go.  Hadn't read or heard mentioned anywhere they were going to just pick a day and have all students head back to school. 
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: Mr C on April 22, 2020, 08:23:02 am
Then move back home and look for a job doing the same. The reason you are here is for the students to interact with you, gaining exposure to more than just the weak material provided in the Korean textbooks. Why employ someone to live here when they could pay someone half the money to plonk some stuff on a website three times a week the other side of the world.

The face to face interactions with the students are what make this job worthwhile.
+1
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: norastelladora on April 22, 2020, 08:23:34 am
From the news, it says they'll be releasing a decision from May 3-5. This week they'll consult with infectious disease experts, next week they'll be consulting parents/teachers, and finally with the KCDC. From the comments on all these articles, most parents seem to be against opening.
 I'm not sure how I feel.  I don't personally care one way or the other as my contract is almost over; however, I don't know how we'd proceed if an outbreak occurred at any school. Do we just close down and those students get online classes while everyone else continues with (arguably) better in-person instruction? Given how obsessed Koreans are with academic fairness I can see a lot of problems arising from this, especially at higher grade levels.
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: Savant on April 22, 2020, 08:26:37 am
Nothing to add other than you persuaded me to re-watch Hot Shots.
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: alexisalex on April 22, 2020, 08:48:46 am
Was watching another EPIK teacher vlog and they mentioned that their MOE has emailed them telling them to be more careful with their social distancing practices.  Apparently locals have been contacting schools to complain about foreigners gathering together lol.
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: Kayos on April 22, 2020, 08:55:31 am
I'm conflicted. The longer this goes on, the more I get to stay away from my Wednesday travel school (positive thing).
But on the other hand, the longer this goes on, the less time I get with my grade 3 class at my main school. (really bad thing).

My Wednesday school, is a soccer school, with really poorly behaved students that won't even listen to the Korean teachers.
My grade 3 at my main school, are mostly motivated English learners and are a lot of fun to teach and interact with. I've had them since they started in grade 1, and are a big part of why I've stayed as long as I have. (I'm planning to leave after they graduate).
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: Colburnnn on April 22, 2020, 09:00:22 am
Foreigners bad!

Koreans gathering in groups outside of CU, in saunas, in PC rooms, in hagwons, in cafes, in small parks, at offices, on subways, playing sports, good!

Silly Alex, you know this.
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: thunderlips on April 22, 2020, 09:29:14 am
Come in the next day and everyone is in the office. I ask, and hear the reply. ''Yeah that was only for the day'' WHa Whaaaa WHAT?? How is that logical in any shape or form.[/u]


Korea, the place where logic comes to die.

Klogic
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: pkjh on April 22, 2020, 09:37:26 am
Then move back home and look for a job doing the same. The reason you are here is for the students to interact with you, gaining exposure to more than just the weak material provided in the Korean textbooks. Why employ someone to live here when they could pay someone half the money to plonk some stuff on a website three times a week the other side of the world.

The face to face interactions with the students are what make this job worthwhile.
I kind of like this remote stuff, but you are right. However, if it were possible that we could continue this and they kept renewing us doing this I would not be objecting.
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: Colburnnn on April 22, 2020, 10:08:27 am
No, 3 1/2 years ago actually.

Noonchi doesn't happen at my school. They are out at 4.16pm. And the amount of stretching they do during the day with elastic cords and golf videos being watched doesn't scream 'working hard'. Still, they need 3 1/2 months off per year.
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: pkjh on April 22, 2020, 10:30:12 am
No, 3 1/2 years ago actually.

Noonchi doesn't happen at my school. They are out at 4.16pm. And the amount of stretching they do during the day with elastic cords and golf videos being watched doesn't scream 'working hard'. Still, they need 3 1/2 months off per year.
Staying at work until the boss leaves happens mostly in the business world. Rarely does it go on at public schools, actually I've never seen it happen in a public school.

And where do get 3.5 months off? It's more like 2.5 months. Although they do tend to show up at school in the last week of Feb. And if you work a high school, often you're there till 9pm, and teaching classes for a good chunk of the summer and winter breaks.
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: L I on April 22, 2020, 10:30:39 am
Move back?  No thanks I don't want to die thank you very much Karen.
Die? Only a small percentage of non elderly Westerners are a risk of dying. The risk level is so low as to not be worth worryIng about. (Unless youíre really unhealthy / really out of shape that is ... but that doesnít have to be a permanent condition. Itís very changeable with adjustment to diet and exercise.)
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: Colburnnn on April 22, 2020, 10:35:31 am
Hi guys, so I'm a Korean American guy born and raised in the USA.  I had trouble dating in the USA and now I'm having even more trouble dating women here.

 :laugh:

Gotta play by those 'Korean rules'.

 :laugh:
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: Colburnnn on April 22, 2020, 10:42:12 am
Staying at work until the boss leaves happens mostly in the business world. Rarely does it go on at public schools, actually I've never seen it happen in a public school.

And where do get 3.5 months off? It's more like 2.5 months. Although they do tend to show up at school in the last week of Feb. And if you work a high school, often you're there till 9pm, and teaching classes for a good chunk of the summer and winter breaks.

Correct. It doesn't happen in PS, only those who are up the P/VP arses and want to move up.

Teachers finished on new years eve the year before corona and came back on March 4th.  Ended on the 25th July and came back on 26th August + All national holidays and leaving school early on field trip days/exam days. How you are making that 2.5 months?

Regardless, and back on topic, it's time to come back to school.
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: oglop on April 22, 2020, 10:51:04 am
Haha, pathetic that you had to comb through my post history to come up with a comeback.  Get a life.
ha. colburn did ya
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: thunderlips on April 22, 2020, 10:52:57 am
My school might as well start back up, probably have about 30-40% of students here now anyways. But I do kind of like the online classes. Makes me think I could do online teaching down the road fairly easily.
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: CO2 on April 22, 2020, 10:56:01 am
ha. colburn did ya
Agreed.

"Just accept Korea!" There is some truth to this but it's no t a catch-all solution.

Things aren't reasonable here sometimes but no one wants to rock the boat. Calling out BS is good.
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on April 22, 2020, 10:56:08 am
No he didn't do me.  Don't care about loser internet trolls.  Just tired of foreigners complaining about minor things in Korea.

Are you a foreigner?
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: CO2 on April 22, 2020, 10:59:37 am
Are you a foreigner?


Haha, got em.

But really, I said this on Oink a week ago.

Do you really want people on here, or public forums to complain about their real problems?

Some people might, it makes for a good read, but those with the problems won't.

I don't know any of you (that's not true, but I don't know the VAST majority of you.)

If I was having real problems, do you think I'd come here? I wouldn't. I'd go to my REAL social network of friends and family.

That's not hard to understand.
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: Colburnnn on April 22, 2020, 11:06:40 am
So, has it improved? Did you figure out what Korean girls like? Whats the secret!? Tell me! Tell me! Tell me!
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: Colburnnn on April 22, 2020, 11:37:25 am
Nice one bro! lol rofl! damn you killed me with that one lol! lol I bet she is so hot lol. maaaan I wish I wasn't a loser internet troll lol :( then I could get a hot girl like you bro damn :(:( lol rofl!

I'm married. Now jog along little one and enjoy the fruits of your internet research!
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: tylerthegloob on April 22, 2020, 11:39:25 am
damn she's probably hotter than my imaginary girlfriend too :cry:
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: stoat on April 22, 2020, 11:50:13 am
A girl that's hotter than your imaginary girlfriend, wow. I'm thinking about the guys in Weird Science trying to construct Kelly Le Brock and then the AI taking over and producing something even better!
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: fruitloops on April 22, 2020, 12:35:47 pm
Quote

In Korea, looking like you are doing something is more important than actually doing something.

This nailed it on the head.  I can't tell you how much this frustrates me so much.
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: fruitloops on April 22, 2020, 12:38:40 pm
Then move back home and look for a job doing the same. The reason you are here is for the students to interact with you, gaining exposure to more than just the weak material provided in the Korean textbooks. Why employ someone to live here when they could pay someone half the money to plonk some stuff on a website three times a week the other side of the world.

The face to face interactions with the students are what make this job worthwhile.

100% agreed.  If we can do this online, then WHY DO WE NEED TO COME INTO SCHOOL?????  Again, makes no sense.   It's like telling someone that they can only make a phone call 12 blocks away from your home and you have to go there each time you want to make a phone call totally ignoring the fact that we could just use our smartphones and call from anywhere.

The point you said....looking like we are doing something is more important than actually doing something ..... this is it 100000000000000% percent.
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: fruitloops on April 22, 2020, 12:51:54 pm
If I could just stay at home and call that "work from home", I'd be happy.

If I could stay at home unpaid until this thing is over and we return to school, I'd be fine with  that, too.

But going into school when it's closed?  Sure I could lesson plan all I want but for 2 months and then you
find out that none of those plans will be usable anyways because of new policies and you have to do
online stuff instead.    This is the reason why I don't even bother to plan ahead for the year. For all we know,
the year is lost and it will just be like this the rest of the way.

Again, students are not in lockdown. They are going out, they are hanging out with friends, going places, socializing, etc.....how is that not more dangerous than sending them to school?  You could easily trace or look for any signs that shows an outbreak in their families, homes, apartments, neighborhood, communities, towns, even cities and provinces before school.  School is the last place you'd have to worry about getting infected.    The infection is coming from outside the school.  So simply include schooling as part of the quarantine measures, meaning: you only go to school and home.   No where else.  Instead they have it the opposite.   Can't go to school but you can go outside, downtown, city, mall, soccer fields, parks, cafes, restaurants, grocery stores, socialize etc.   
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: Kayos on April 22, 2020, 01:48:03 pm
I was just talking to my co-teacher about this. She thinks, May 11th is when students will be back to school at the earliest.
Since the spreading rate in Korea is really low now.
For 2 of my 3 schools, the sooner the better.
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: MayorHaggar on April 22, 2020, 05:13:17 pm
Liberate EPIK!!!
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: gogators! on April 22, 2020, 08:43:38 pm
H.I., you're young and you got your health. What you want with a job?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W-0KHHdM0o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W-0KHHdM0o)
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: fruitloops on April 23, 2020, 09:08:38 am
I was just talking to my co-teacher about this. She thinks, May 11th is when students will be back to school at the earliest.
Since the spreading rate in Korea is really low now.
For 2 of my 3 schools, the sooner the better.

Yes, I heard that also.  It's going to be more like what I proposed many weeks ago.  They are going to roll it out slowly by bringing back the older grades first and gradually the younger grades until they are all eventually at 100% attendance.

1.  They could have done this a month ago.
2.  Schools are not the problem.  The virus doesn't come from being in school.
3.  The moment a case is reported in some school somewhere in the country, the entire school system will be
     shut down again and lockdown for 2 weeks.  And we're right back where we started and this could go on like this
     for the whole year.

     It's really over reaction and paranoia at it's fullest.   I don't mean to downplay it, but the actual risks are so low in
     this country people don't realize you have a higher chance of dying by food poisoning than you do of covid19.  So
     then why don't people stop eating for fear of dying?  Everytime you put something in your mouth, you could die.
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: Kayos on April 23, 2020, 09:40:26 am
Yes, I heard that also.  It's going to be more like what I proposed many weeks ago.  They are going to roll it out slowly by bringing back the older grades first and gradually the younger grades until they are all eventually at 100% attendance.

1.  They could have done this a month ago.
2.  Schools are not the problem.  The virus doesn't come from being in school.
3.  The moment a case is reported in some school somewhere in the country, the entire school system will be
     shut down again and lockdown for 2 weeks.  And we're right back where we started and this could go on like this
     for the whole year.

     It's really over reaction and paranoia at it's fullest.   I don't mean to downplay it, but the actual risks are so low in
     this country people don't realize you have a higher chance of dying by food poisoning than you do of covid19.  So
     then why don't people stop eating for fear of dying?  Everytime you put something in your mouth, you could die.

Actually, it could come from school. Most countries were really quick to close schools down, so there is just no data, or very little data, on spreading in schools. In NZ, it got spread in a school early on, once they started getting covid cases, and schools were quick to close there after that case. A lot of schools around Asia were on vacation around the time of the virus too.
I heard S.Korea is down to single digit cases daily now, which is why it is probably a good time to open schools up again. (Though, I want my Wednesday school to stay closed for much, much longer D: haha)
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: 745sticky on April 23, 2020, 12:59:25 pm
This is the reason why I don't even bother to plan ahead for the year. For all we know,
the year is lost and it will just be like this the rest of the way.

^pretty much. I made the mistake of getting my hopes up and prepping a few lessons only for my ct to tell me I have to teach directly out of the textbook. Aside from expanding my collection of game templates I haven't done anything productive for like the past month.
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: niitbs on April 23, 2020, 07:09:47 pm
Anyone else's school got their events budget and planning market days, talent shows, concerts, sports days, and summer camps (across all subjects) as normal - as if a pandemic isn't happening?
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: Colburnnn on April 24, 2020, 07:24:10 am
Mine has 3 weeks of vacation, 1 week of camp. No idea about all the other days.

No doubt there are still 2-3 weeks of wasted time where students do nothing after each of the exams though. Public school staple, that.
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: oglop on April 24, 2020, 07:33:08 am
Yes, I heard that also.  It's going to be more like what I proposed many weeks ago.  They are going to roll it out slowly by bringing back the older grades first and gradually the younger grades until they are all eventually at 100% attendance.

1.  They could have done this a month ago.
2.  Schools are not the problem.  The virus doesn't come from being in school.
3.  The moment a case is reported in some school somewhere in the country, the entire school system will be
     shut down again and lockdown for 2 weeks.  And we're right back where we started and this could go on like this
     for the whole year.

     It's really over reaction and paranoia at it's fullest.   I don't mean to downplay it, but the actual risks are so low in
     this country people don't realize you have a higher chance of dying by food poisoning than you do of covid19.  So
     then why don't people stop eating for fear of dying?  Everytime you put something in your mouth, you could die.
probably more political than anything. in recent polls most parents were still against opening schools. no point doing something that will anger a lot of your potential voters (especially if schools opened and it caused another outbreak)
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: Kayos on April 24, 2020, 08:02:48 am
Anyone else's school got their events budget and planning market days, talent shows, concerts, sports days, and summer camps (across all subjects) as normal - as if a pandemic isn't happening?

Mine is unlikely to do a summer camp. I'm an August contract worker, and I have too many vacation days to use within the shortened summer vacation as is. With student's also likely to be returning soon, I don't think they'd want/let me use them during the semester now. So, summer camp will have to fall by the wayside, while allowing the excess vacation days happen during the semester.
However, my school was uncertain on a lot of this stuff as of end of day yesterday.
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: pkjh on April 24, 2020, 08:25:23 am
Anyone else's school got their events budget and planning market days, talent shows, concerts, sports days, and summer camps (across all subjects) as normal - as if a pandemic isn't happening?
This is pretty normal for planning, on paper plan as much as normal as you can. Anyways, budgets were already set way back when the new fiscal year began back in January-ish. That's why we were renewed, which if this carries on longer renewal for a lot of us will be in question. And they'll find a way to spend the money, probably will be encouraged to in order to bring the economy back. Things are scheduled, and if they do bring students back it's doubtful they'd do anything off school grounds, at least until maybe the 2nd semester if they have 0 new cases, and nobody actively sick.
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: fruitloops on April 24, 2020, 08:27:00 am
probably more political than anything. in recent polls most parents were still against opening schools. no point doing something that will anger a lot of your potential voters (especially if schools opened and it caused another outbreak)

Good point. Agreed. 
I also think it's about saving face.  Korea wouldn't want to be the only country to restart schools and then "IF" a small outbreak occurred, it would be reported all over the world and make the Korean government look like a joke.   They are waiting for the rest of the world to re-open schools so they don't look bad.

Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: oglop on April 24, 2020, 09:11:00 am
Good point. Agreed. 
I also think it's about saving face.  Korea wouldn't want to be the only country to restart schools and then "IF" a small outbreak occurred, it would be reported all over the world and make the Korean government look like a joke.   They are waiting for the rest of the world to re-open schools so they don't look bad.


it's the old "better safe than sorry" approach.

(i agree with you though, seems a bit silly if everything else is open - including hagwons. especially as i see kids playing around together in big groups anyway)
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: Aristocrat on April 24, 2020, 09:17:19 am
it's the old "better safe than sorry" approach.

(i agree with you though, seems a bit silly if everything else is open - including hagwons. especially as i see kids playing around together in big groups anyway)

People, including myself, had to sneak into the stadium since last week (by using the stairs and side entrance) since the main entrance is closed and oftentimes the policeman guarding the place will ask us (a maximum of 3 people occupying a stadium) to leave, since the stadium is officially closed for fear of infection spreading.

The tennis courts and astroturf soccer pitch next to the stadium is business as usual, filled with people engaging in recreation.

Ridiculous.
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: oglop on April 24, 2020, 09:36:51 am
People, including myself, had to sneak into the stadium since last week (by using the stairs and side entrance) since the main entrance is closed and oftentimes the policeman guarding the place will ask us (a maximum of 3 people occupying a stadium) to leave, since the stadium is officially closed for fear of infection spreading.

The tennis courts and astroturf soccer pitch next to the stadium is business as usual, filled with people engaging in recreation.

Ridiculous.
makes no sense. people (myself included) still crowd onto busy subways in the morning. but not allowing more than 3 people to use a massive empty stadium? it's that korean illogical overreaction thing happening
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: alexisalex on April 24, 2020, 10:50:03 am
My school has an athletic track and people sometimes come in to use it but they put a sign up banning people from doing that.  I have to agree that it doesn't make a lot of sense.
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: OnNut81 on April 24, 2020, 11:26:28 am
makes no sense. people (myself included) still crowd onto busy subways in the morning. but not allowing more than 3 people to use a massive empty stadium? it's that korean illogical overreaction thing happening

Are you suggesting that just because people need to use the subways there is no case for any other restrictions?  That's like saying because I eat a lot of fast food I might as well take up smoking.  Because I ride the subway to work doesn't mean I throw social distancing out the window when I can control it.  There's no logic in that argument.  I hope to God the people in charge aren't going to base their decisions on whether they should open up a venue to crowds based on the fact another venue (public transit in your example) has opened up.  That would be illogical.  Where they are able to limit crowds they should limit them.  And if you accept it's illogical, you can't make a Korean angle out of that since the exact same thing is happening worldwide with public transit and restrictions. 
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: Aristocrat on April 24, 2020, 11:39:55 am
Are you suggesting that just because people need to use the subways there is no case for any other restrictions?  That's like saying because I eat a lot of fast food I might as well take up smoking.  Because I ride the subway to work doesn't mean I throw social distancing out the window when I can control it.  There's no logic in that argument.  I hope to God the people in charge aren't going to base their decisions on whether they should open up a venue to crowds based on the fact another venue (public transit in your example) has opened up.  That would be illogical.  Where they are able to limit crowds they should limit them.  And if you accept it's illogical, you can't make a Korean angle out of that since the exact same thing is happening worldwide with public transit and restrictions. 

A few weeks ago, hundreds of people were taking selfies along the roadside, next to the cherry blossoms. Police were there and did nothing. Going to a stadium to walk around a track isn't essential, neither is playing tennis, soccer or taking pictures with flowers. The tennis court has about 50 people playing and watching. 50 people in a space a fifth the size of a stadium, which isn't allowing 2 people inside. 95% of the time, no more than 8 people are at that stadium and I go there a few times a week, so I know.

What this demonstrates is a complete lack of communication and coordination between government departments.
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: Savant on April 24, 2020, 11:44:14 am
Are you suggesting that just because people need to use the subways there is no case for any other restrictions?  That's like saying because I eat a lot of fast food I might as well take up smoking.  Because I ride the subway to work doesn't mean I throw social distancing out the window when I can control it.  There's no logic in that argument.  I hope to God the people in charge aren't going to base their decisions on whether they should open up a venue to crowds based on the fact another venue (public transit in your example) has opened up.  That would be illogical.  Where they are able to limit crowds they should limit them.  And if you accept it's illogical, you can't make a Korean angle out of that since the exact same thing is happening worldwide with public transit and restrictions. 

Other countries have completely restricted large gatherings of people. Korea, not so much. The government offered guidelines but the people haven't really followed them. Case in point, people still flocking to see the cherry blossoms and going clubbing etc etc.

Korea has done well with testing and contact tracing. If mask-wearing wasn't the "norm" here then the curve wouldn't be flattened yet.
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: oglop on April 24, 2020, 11:50:44 am
Are you suggesting that just because people need to use the subways there is no case for any other restrictions?  That's like saying because I eat a lot of fast food I might as well take up smoking.  Because I ride the subway to work doesn't mean I throw social distancing out the window when I can control it.  There's no logic in that argument.  I hope to God the people in charge aren't going to base their decisions on whether they should open up a venue to crowds based on the fact another venue (public transit in your example) has opened up.  That would be illogical.  Where they are able to limit crowds they should limit them.  And if you accept it's illogical, you can't make a Korean angle out of that since the exact same thing is happening worldwide with public transit and restrictions. 
Subways busy, hagwons open, parks busy, restaurants busy, cafes busy, streets busy, gyms opening, amusement parks open, schools closed.

As someone said on reddit, it's like having a pee section in a swimming pool
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: pkjh on April 24, 2020, 12:01:26 pm
A few weeks ago, hundreds of people were taking selfies along the roadside, next to the cherry blossoms. Police were there and did nothing. Going to a stadium to walk around a track isn't essential, neither is playing tennis, soccer or taking pictures with flowers. The tennis court has about 50 people playing and watching. 50 people in a space a fifth the size of a stadium, which isn't allowing 2 people inside. 95% of the time, no more than 8 people are at that stadium and I go there a few times a week, so I know.

What this demonstrates is a complete lack of communication and coordination between government departments.
Korea never had a strict lockdown, it was strongly recommended. And people were only reprimanded if they were known to have the virus, or contact, and broke quarantine when explicitly told to by some authority. Businesses were strongly advised to shut down. As for my area, I'd guesstimate maybe half the hagwons, and gyms, have started opening up middle of last week. But for all of March it was like a ghost town.
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: Aristocrat on April 24, 2020, 12:43:51 pm
Korea never had a strict lockdown, it was strongly recommended. And people were only reprimanded if they were known to have the virus, or contact, and broke quarantine when explicitly told to by some authority. Businesses were strongly advised to shut down. As for my area, I'd guesstimate maybe half the hagwons, and gyms, have started opening up middle of last week. But for all of March it was like a ghost town.

Yeah, and I disagree with that approach. The "recommended" is basically the governments way of saying "We don't want to piss off unions and/or voters, so we're just going to illustrate our strong leadership by... passing the buck."
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: pkjh on April 24, 2020, 12:58:19 pm
Yeah, and I disagree with that approach. The "recommended" is basically the governments way of saying "We don't want to piss off unions and/or voters, so we're just going to illustrate our strong leadership by... passing the buck."
Well, it seemed to work. Anyways, I think there were a few reasons, one being the current government being leftist so being draconian on a lockdown brings back memories of Korea's dictatorial past. And people of the left love championing that they were the reason Korea is now a liberal democracy. And the election that they had. Also, at that point way back in February only China had a strict lockdown. No other country had one, so Korea being a democracy was in uncharted territory.
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: oglop on April 24, 2020, 01:23:06 pm
Yeah, and I disagree with that approach. The "recommended" is basically the governments way of saying "We don't want to piss off unions and/or voters, so we're just going to illustrate our strong leadership by... passing the buck."
forced closure of businesses would also probably mean they'd have to/be pressured into paying relieve grants, like in other countries. something they would want to avoid, i'd imagine.
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: Titus Groan on April 25, 2020, 01:37:38 am
Well, a number of unis - including mine - have been told to prepare for a May 11 return to the classroom.. we've had this kind of notice before (in my school's case May 4) and nothing came of it, but this projected return seems to be being looked at much more seriously than previous pronouncements; I've heard the MOE is having a major meeting in a day or two to make the momentous (hopefully) decision!

I for one will be glad to get back to the classroom, although I'm afraid that - should they postpone this planned re-opening again by a couple of weeks - that will pretty much put the kibosh on any return to the classroom this semester - it'll be online teaching right to the end of the semester!

  One silver lining might be the fact that my school has said we can return to the absolute grading system for this semester instead of the abominable relative/curve grading of the last 4 years...

 But, this is Korea after all, so I'll not hold my breath - I'll just keep my fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: Titus Groan on May 05, 2020, 09:49:32 am
Well, just received a text from my co-ordinator saying my uni is returning to in-school classes May 25th...!
 
I'll go in tomorrow to sort out some material; and hopefully confirm this; not sure how this might be connected to public schools, hagwons, etc, scheduling, but perhaps this time it might actually happen - still, things can always change (again...).
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: Mr C on May 05, 2020, 04:28:09 pm
Public schools reopen in phases starting next Wednesday: https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2020/05/119_288980.html
Title: Re: Why Aren't We Starting Up School?
Post by: Mr C on May 05, 2020, 04:32:18 pm
In Korean;