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Career Venue => Contract, and Job Related Issues => Topic started by: hautewingz on April 09, 2020, 08:58:24 am

Title: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: hautewingz on April 09, 2020, 08:58:24 am
I'm going to be starting at a new school this summer and have been checking their website to see what their response is to "the situation." (Looks like they're still open but banning parents from entering. Yay! haha) Anyway, I noticed on the "Meet the Teachers" page that quite a few of the NETs I first saw on the site have been replaced by brand new faces. At least 5 that I can tell. Is this a bad sign or totally normal? Or possibly C19-related? Or... maybe they're just now getting around to updating the website? The person I'm replacing was pretty vague on why they were leaving and I'm not sure it's worth asking the school or recruiter about directly. :-[ Halp.
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: Aristocrat on April 09, 2020, 09:19:26 am
I'm going to be starting at a new school this summer and have been checking their website to see what their response is to "the situation." (Looks like they're still open but banning parents from entering. Yay! haha) Anyway, I noticed on the "Meet the Teachers" page that quite a few of the NETs I first saw on the site have been replaced by brand new faces. At least 5 that I can tell. Is this a bad sign or totally normal? Or possibly C19-related? Or... maybe they're just now getting around to updating the website? The person I'm replacing was pretty vague on why they were leaving and I'm not sure it's worth asking the school or recruiter about directly. :-[ Halp.

I wouldn't worry

At my local MOE, the Korean CTs complained to the MOE that many of the new NETs were inexperienced (well, no sh*t, a teaching license isn't required). Either way, more experienced NETs are preferred in my MOE. 
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: Kayos on April 09, 2020, 09:26:53 am
If you are a talking about a hagwon... Well, chances are it will be a bad sign, cause statistically, you're more likely to end up at a bad one to work for haha.
(made up statistics based on word of mouth and personal experience.) :P
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: plan b on April 09, 2020, 09:38:39 am
I'd say about a half of English Teachers in Korea leave after a year. Maybe between 50 and 60%. There's a lot of turnover. There's no real way of knowing what really happened, and recruiters are not apt to share any information that could cost them business.
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: hautewingz on April 09, 2020, 10:10:36 am
Thanks guys, that puts it into perspective!
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: Foreverparadise on April 09, 2020, 11:52:26 am
You might as well consider it to be.

I spent 3 years teaching in Yongin, and 4 years teaching in Gyeongsangnam.
Most of the teachers like me who are experienced and licensed usually stay
for more than 1 year. But I worked in the public school system, not in a
hagwon.

Plus the experienced teachers have to be paid more than the inexperienced
teachers because the inexperienced teachers are found to be cheaper.
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: alexisalex on April 09, 2020, 12:39:05 pm
The two previous NETS at my school stayed for one year each and I just started my seventh year haha.  One man's trash is another man's treasure  :laugh:
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: L I on April 09, 2020, 12:44:25 pm
Here’s to seven more great years in Korea.
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: hangook77 on April 10, 2020, 10:03:48 am
A lot of teachers cycle in and out after a year or two.  Don't worry about it. 
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: NorthStar on April 11, 2020, 11:08:29 am
OP, this may be something to be concerned about  Schools generally don't want folks finishing their year all at once.

If the person you spoke with, regarding this situation, was vague (which, there really is no need for..unless, there is a need), I'd ask more questions. 
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: fruitloops on April 14, 2020, 01:20:29 pm
You must be a new teacher.

This is the norm for this job.  NETs are guest teachers.  We are not real teachers.  We are considered expendable
which is why contracts only last 1 year at a time. 

Most NETs do treat this as a temporary career, something to do while they figure out what they really want to do with
their lives, a chance to leave their home country and visit Asia or Korea, travel, kill two birds with one stone, maybe
a Koreaphile, too.  Lots of people want to just come to Korea, and english teaching job was the best way to do it.  Another
reason is because they couldn't find any decent work back home.  Yeah, believe it or not, you'd think life is supposed to
be better in Europe or North America, but many of them can't find jobs and decide to teach English abroad.  It used to be
almost anyone could just land a job....but those days are long gone now and it's good they have more stringent criteria
you have to meet (not sure about Hagwons though).

There is a small percentage of those who have decided they want to do this for the rest of their life or as long as they can
and even try to naturalize as Korean citizen (many ways).   You'll find these people quite easily as they are long-time users of this forum or other sites and it may just seem like there are a lot, but there aren't in comparison.  It's because the temporary english teachers who stay for 1 or 2 years come and go on this forum, too.   The ones that use this often are the ones who have been here a long time and have created a sort of "fraternity" community amongst the senior/veteran NETs of Korea.

This same pattern exists in almost any other country where expats work and live in.  Same thing.

I mentioned a while back somewhere in one of these threads, that NETs and Korean teachers have in large part
two very different perspectives.  Korean teachers are in this for life.   They have studied and prepared for this career
for years before getting in and it's very difficult for them to get in because of how many people want this government job
with all the benefits and perks it comes with for Korean teachers.

As for NETs, we don't get the same benefits and perks over the long haul.  You could have worked for 10 years but the next year, you could easily find yourself back to square one back in line with the 1st year applicants.  There is no seniority system or benefits package for us.  We get the same treatment as a 1st year applicant.  Only difference is maybe your pay is higher if you stayed long enough in the same place.    The longer a Korean teacher stays in their career as a teacher, the better everything gets for them...pay, benefits, certain privileges and promotions...huge incentives.  For NETs, no incentives other than a slight pay bump but there is a ceiling.  There is no special package for seniority or promotion.  You're just  a guest english teacher of 1 year or 15th year, you are the same.   Easily replaceable.  Expendable.

Of course, you could always branch out and do your own thing and try to use your experience and vast knowledge to your own advantage and to your own leverage.  But this isn't easy and it's not for everyone.  Those who have done it have found great success and started their own businesses and more.  But again, it's not easy and not for everyone.

I really think the English program should create a 2 tiered system.  1 tier should be for those English teachers who are real temporary teachers, they openly say they only want to do this for 1 or 2 years maybe 3 tops and leave.  It seems that there is a general mutual understanding that Korea can "use" these NETs and the NETs can "use" Korea.  They both get what they want in the short-term, and wipe their hands clean and off they go their own ways.  It's like using each other for your own personal gain (Korea's need for english and your need for a job/money/adventure/new experience).

But tier 2 are the ones who really want to invest and commit to the english program in Korea and have plans to stay long-term.  These are the people I feel get short-changed somewhat because we are all in tier 1 despite having given a decade or more to the system.  It's a simple, if your employers see you as more than just temporary workers, they might invest more in you, and in return, the worker would want to invest more back.  It's another mutual understanding but on another level....the long-term investment level.   

Anyways, just my two cents.

Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: LIC on April 15, 2020, 10:13:20 am
Back around 2011-2012 when I was finally forced into taking that utterly useless EPIC circus nutshow in Seoul, a Korean from the Ministry of Education got up on stage to give his welcome speech.

He was as ignorant as it gets and made everyone there feel uncomfortable and unwelcome. I wasn't surprised as I had been in Korea for a while by then and knew what a significant percentage of Koreans can be like with regards to foreigners in general.

Anyway, Mr. Kimgeniality told the huddled mass that 80% of newcomers to Korea stay 1 year and about 80% of the rest leave after 2 years. Then he went off on a vicious tirade about his feelings of those who do runners. In short, there is never a reason to do one and it is never a Koreans fault.

From my experience those numbers were close enough for horseshoes.

The foreign teachers I knew who stayed longer than 2 years fell into 3 general groups:

1) Those who had a longterm plan to make enough money to enable them to go where they wanted to go and settle in comfortably - like me

2) Those who fell in love with a Korean and got married

3) Losers and apologists with nothing else going on in their pathetic existences

It's no coincidence at all that if you go there and buckle down and work without spending a lot of money that most can pay off a student loan in 2 years.

To answer your question, no it isn't a bad sign. It's typical.
 
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: fruitloops on April 16, 2020, 10:05:51 am

Quote

The foreign teachers I knew who stayed longer than 2 years fell into 3 general groups:

1) Those who had a longterm plan to make enough money to enable them to go where they wanted to go and settle in comfortably - like me

2) Those who fell in love with a Korean and got married

3) Losers and apologists with nothing else going on in their pathetic existences

It's no coincidence at all that if you go there and buckle down and work without spending a lot of money that most can pay off a student loan in 2 years.

To answer your question, no it isn't a bad sign. It's typical.

I'd have to put a 4th reason in that list and that is some people really do have a passion for teaching and wanted this as a career.  There are a lot of amazing teachers I've come across or met at orientations and other stuff and so that category is just as real also.

#3 haha, I wouldn't put it so bluntly like that, but yes there is some truth to that.  Teaching English overseas really started off like a gimmick....a cheap and easy way to make some money while enjoying travelling or a new experience in another country.  It wasn't taken so seriously and I'm sure many Koreans who had to be exposed to this early mentality and culture of NETs like that Mr. Kim guy, has his reasons to think and say the things he did.

If you've had a dozen english teachers over the last 20 years come and go, do midnight runs, come to school late, be unprofessional, not even do a good job in lesson planning or teaching, and whining complaining about money or more vacation time and other cultural things ....you can get an idea of how some people could formulate this negative image of us.

But times have changed and things are improving with the qualifications and criteria to meet, most applicants now are not just your typical high school / college drop out with nothing to do so come to Asia and teach english kind of person.  Most of them have now put in quite a substantial amount of time, effort, and money to get here.   So there's definitely an improvement in quality of NETs.

I think it would be really helpful for both NETs and the Korean English education system if they were able to identify and separate the "temporary" ones and the ones with "long-term investment" potential.   

While overall, this job (in the public school) provides a very professional and reasonable compensation with short-term security, I think if anyone wants or expects more out of their employees, you have to show that you are willing to invest in them, care about them, and treat them as if you think they are long-term key players for you.

If you treat them like they are expendable, then employees knows this as well and therefore won't invest much back into you.  Why should they when they know they're only going to be here for a year or two?

As a person with the experience of 10 years in Korea, I can attest to what it feels like.  You'd think that having 10 years of experience and loyalty to the system, you'd be in some sort of elevated or senior status / benefits but you aren't.  You are just as vulnerable and at the edge of elimination as a first year applicant.   You are somewhat unknown, unrecognized, all you did or put in is just seemingly gone and isn't building towards anything (in their eyes, but maybe in your own life you are building towards something sure). 

So this feeling makes you really hold back and become more selfish to take care of yourself because you realize how fragile your status is and in one moment, all of it could be gone and you're on your own.   

Korean teachers I bet don't feel this same way. They feel a sense of security, recognition, identity, long-term investment etc....so there's a lot more for them to invest in and have good reason to.  For us, NETs, we're just a guest teacher even if you've been here for 10 or 20 years, you're always just 1 step away from being out the door, no questions asked....nobody knew you even existed or did what you did for a decade or two.   That's the part I wish would change.  You want your employees to be invested, then you need to show them you are investing in them (the long-term ones who wanted to be here and be part of it).

The short-term ones openly admit they only want to be here short-term and move on, so that's a different tier group or understanding and nobody's feelings gets hurt lol.   It's like the feeling of getting dumped.  I think both sides feel that way a lot.  NETs feel like they got dumped and Korean education side feels like NETs who leave dumped them.  That's probably the feeling Mr Kim was expressing over his long tenure and years dealing with NETs.



Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: alexisalex on April 16, 2020, 10:31:18 am
It would be nice to see long term teachers rewarded somehow or at least be given any kind of motivation.  Maybe they could be given more responsibility in terms of mentoring new teachers, running training sessions, opening up their classes throughout the year for people to observe etc.  Personally I'd love the chance to observe other teachers to get more ideas for my classes.

One thing that has always bothered me about this job is the lack of feedback.  I've been here six years and still don't know where I stand in terms of where the bar is set.  Am I well below it?  Am I just doing what is expected of me?  Maybe I'm the best teacher Korea has ever seen and my material blows everyone else out of the water but the point is I have absolutely no idea.  No idea at all.  I don't really enjoy teaching because I don't know if I'm good at it or not.  So why carry on, you know?
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: stoat on April 16, 2020, 11:37:20 am
It would be nice to see long term teachers rewarded somehow or at least be given any kind of motivation.  Maybe they could be given more responsibility in terms of mentoring new teachers, running training sessions, opening up their classes throughout the year for people to observe etc.  Personally I'd love the chance to observe other teachers to get more ideas for my classes.

One thing that has always bothered me about this job is the lack of feedback.  I've been here six years and still don't know where I stand in terms of where the bar is set.  Am I well below it?  Am I just doing what is expected of me?  Maybe I'm the best teacher Korea has ever seen and my material blows everyone else out of the water but the point is I have absolutely no idea.  No idea at all.  I don't really enjoy teaching because I don't know if I'm good at it or not.  So why carry on, you know?

Yes, you've put your finger on something that's missing from a lot of teachers' experiences. Observing other teachers and more pertinently being observed (and given proper feedback) are probably the best ways to improve as a teacher, though probably the majority of teachers working here have never done either. 
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: oglop on April 16, 2020, 02:40:42 pm
I miss getting feedback like that. In fact, I've never gotten it in Korea, only elsewhere

The only feedback I get here is from patents who come to my class - the vast majority who have no experience teaching and can't speak English anyway
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: alexisalex on April 16, 2020, 03:15:14 pm
I really like that EPIK has its mentor/mentee program but it's nowhere near where it should be. 

- First year teachers should have access to mentors' classes througout the year, not just one time.  Deskwarming?  Why not be able to pop out for the afternoon to see a class?

- Second year teachers should not automatically become mentors.  My classes were still probably terrible at that point.

- There could be a small team of long term teachers (+ five years?) who have themselves been evaluated, doing the mentoring and doing it regularly throughout the year.  One week per semester where they see two mentee classes per day?  Something like that.

I feel like the mentor/mentee meetings in my experience have been the usual "tick the box, it's done" paperwork for schools when it could be a lot more than that.
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: stoat on April 16, 2020, 03:33:22 pm
NETs in the public school system are supposed to be classroom assistants so they'd have to be observed with their co-teachers wouldn't they? This wouldn't go down well with the Korean teachers I assume, who would feel they'd have to make a special effort on top of their open class dog and pony show.
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: oglop on April 16, 2020, 04:26:18 pm
korean public schools really just need an outside body to come in once or twice a year and evaluate the teachers, like OFSTED would in the UK. it feels like public school teachers here really don't have anyone to impress (apart from the fake open classes), as they change schools every four years anyway, are never evaluated and know they've pretty much got a job for life.

not to mention that the subject teachers seem to get swapped around seemingly at will- teachers getting put on english teaching duty for the year, despite never having taught ESL before (and often not even being able to speak english very well, either)
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: pkjh on April 16, 2020, 04:45:52 pm
not to mention that the subject teachers seem to get swapped around seemingly at will- teachers getting put on english teaching duty for the year, despite never having taught ESL before (and often not even being able to speak english very well, either)
That's only in elementary. In middle, and high, schools they have actual English teachers. However, often their actual speaking English may be lacking. But they do know their technical grammar.
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: stoat on April 16, 2020, 05:12:45 pm
korean public schools really just need an outside body to come in once or twice a year and evaluate the teachers, like OFSTED would in the UK. it feels like public school teachers here really don't have anyone to impress (apart from the fake open classes), as they change schools every four years anyway, are never evaluated and know they've pretty much got a job for life.

not to mention that the subject teachers seem to get swapped around seemingly at will- teachers getting put on english teaching duty for the year, despite never having taught ESL before (and often not even being able to speak english very well, either)

The problem with Ofsted is they only come once? a year and observe a few selected teachers. What should be happening is the head of dept should be observing all teachers in their dept twice a year and giving them proper feedback.  Plus there should be a mandatory peer observation schedule with feedback as part of a teacher's duties. This is what happened at the BC when i worked there and, while unpopular for obvious reasons, people knew it was effective. Quite a few teachers got put on PIPs (performance improvement procedures) as a result
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: oglop on April 16, 2020, 05:31:47 pm
The problem with Ofsted is they only come once? a year and observe a few selected teachers. What should be happening is the head of dept should be observing all teachers in their dept twice a year and giving them proper feedback.  Plus there should be a mandatory peer observation schedule with feedback as part of a teacher's duties. This is what happened at the BC when i worked there and, while unpopular for obvious reasons, people knew it was effective. Quite a few teachers got put on PIPs (performance improvement procedures) as a result
i only mentioned OFSTED because it's external. i just can't imagine anything internal like this being done properly in the schools. i mean, they kind of had this at a school i worked at before, but the "examiner" would just pop in for 1 minute and leave. the korean teachers says this happens to them but it was just a "formality" that they had to do, a checkbox ticked that someone had technically watched their class

i wonder if it's also cultural? that no teacher wants to criticise other teachers, making them lose face or something? when i first started i'd always ask for feedback but just get a "yes, it was good" despite knowing the class was completely and utterly shite. it was infuriating and impossible to improve

one of the main draws for me when applying to BC was getting decent feedback, as well as doing some more qualifications. just improving myself as an instructor generally, really. still wonder if i made the right choice turning the job down. ha
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: stoat on April 16, 2020, 05:55:38 pm
Bad feedback sucks, but it's right of passage every teacher should have to go through. You can't rely on the students to know how the teacher should be developing.
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: oglop on April 16, 2020, 06:09:18 pm
Bad feedback sucks, but it's right of passage every teacher should have to go through. You can't rely on the students to know how the teacher should be developing.
ha exactly. i mean, public schools give yearly feedback forms (rating their teacher) to all students, right down to elementary grade 1 and 2. how mental is that
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: pkjh on April 16, 2020, 06:33:44 pm
i wonder if it's also cultural? that no teacher wants to criticise other teachers, making them lose face or something? when i first started i'd always ask for feedback but just get a "yes, it was good" despite knowing the class was completely and utterly shite. it was infuriating and impossible to improve
Peer reviews generally aren't done in private companies back home because of the loss of face issue. Someone at your pay level gives you a bad review, totally poisons the work environment. And very likely you'll give an equally bad review back. It's not a realistic way to review people. Reviews are usually only done by supervisors, or by a completely independent entity.
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: Mr C on April 16, 2020, 06:42:36 pm
ha exactly. i mean, public schools give yearly feedback forms (rating their teacher) to all students, right down to elementary grade 1 and 2. how mental is that

Well, it has a place, but a small one--students usually have a good sense of whether a teacher is "on their side" and has their interests at heart.  But many of the instruments used are iffy at ascertaining that. 

The real student feedback comes in measuring their progress against pre-defined criteria.

There used to be a lot of discussion about how "teaching to the test" is bad, but I always felt that it depends on the test.  If the test is measuring the right things in the right way, I'm all for it.
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: oglop on April 16, 2020, 07:36:27 pm
Peer reviews generally aren't done in private companies back home because of the loss of face issue. Someone at your pay level gives you a bad review, totally poisons the work environment. And very likely you'll give an equally bad review back. It's not a realistic way to review people. Reviews are usually only done by supervisors, or by a completely independent entity.
Right. But you don't get heads of Dept assessing here either. And when I first came to Korea, I was completely under the impression I was just the assistant and I'd be learning from the Korean teacher. Hard to do without a single piece of feedback!

Not to mention every single SMOE training day I went on was utterly awful


Well, it has a place, but a small one--students usually have a good sense of whether a teacher is "on their side" and has their interests at heart.  But many of the instruments used are iffy at ascertaining that. 

The real student feedback comes in measuring their progress against pre-defined criteria.

There used to be a lot of discussion about how "teaching to the test" is bad, but I always felt that it depends on the test.  If the test is measuring the right things in the right way, I'm all for it.
Well I would get to see what students wrote. I really don't feel "teacher bad because no give candy" or "more movies teacher!" or "teacher funny. Big nose" assessments are very useful.

But it still seems to boil down to the focus on English having to be constantly fun and entertaining than educational, at least at public schools (especially elementary)
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: stoat on April 16, 2020, 07:57:23 pm
Quote
Peer reviews generally aren't done in private companies back home because of the loss of face issue. Someone at your pay level gives you a bad review, totally poisons the work environment. And very likely you'll give an equally bad review back. It's not a realistic way to review people. Reviews are usually only done by supervisors, or by a completely independent entity.
Right. But you don't get heads of Dept assessing here either. And when I first came to Korea, I was completely under the impression I was just the assistant and I'd be learning from the Korean teacher. Hard to do without a single piece of feedback!

Not to mention every single SMOE training day I went on was utterly awful

Observations from your boss should be quality control with a grading system + developmental. Ones from your colleagues should be developmental only. There should also be training sessions on how to give constructive feedback without causing offence.
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: pkjh on April 16, 2020, 08:16:34 pm
Right. But you don't get heads of Dept assessing here either. And when I first came to Korea, I was completely under the impression I was just the assistant and I'd be learning from the Korean teacher. Hard to do without a single piece of feedback!
That's the thing, head of departments are just like any other teacher but gets paid a little extra, and theoretically any teacher can be chosen to be head of a departments. Reviews are a political minefield. Remember there are those flimsy head of departments too like the hwaeshik bujang. Sometimes nobody wants to be head of some department, and so the task goes to a young teacher. All teachers are considered basically equal unless you are the vice-principal, or principal. So peer reviews really can't be objectively done between teachers. However, sometimes when full-time teachers review contract teachers that's when the gloves might come off, if you're pretty confident they'll never become full-time at your particular school (in the case for private schools). The closest thing I've seen in Korean schools of a reasonable, objective, review is when a teacher reviews a student-teacher.
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: Kayos on April 17, 2020, 08:12:19 am
I really like that EPIK has its mentor/mentee program but it's nowhere near where it should be. 

- First year teachers should have access to mentors' classes througout the year, not just one time.  Deskwarming?  Why not be able to pop out for the afternoon to see a class?

- Second year teachers should not automatically become mentors.  My classes were still probably terrible at that point.

- There could be a small team of long term teachers (+ five years?) who have themselves been evaluated, doing the mentoring and doing it regularly throughout the year.  One week per semester where they see two mentee classes per day?  Something like that.

I feel like the mentor/mentee meetings in my experience have been the usual "tick the box, it's done" paperwork for schools when it could be a lot more than that.

While I like that idea a lot but, it might not work for everyone, right away.
My schools want things done a specific way, and ANY deviation from that way, is considered really bad, even if it's good for the students; and I get no freedom to do what I want.
However, my co-t has been pretty helpful and has been helping me improve within the way the school wants things done.

I think it would be especially great if you aren't in a situation similar to mine but, could be good for the future for those who are.
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: oglop on April 17, 2020, 01:04:56 pm
i think a lot of problems would be solved if the books they used were any good. so many schools want you to follow the book, but if the book is complete shit then what's the point?
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: nightninja on April 17, 2020, 01:15:13 pm
I had some textbooks that were ok, but I refused to use the activities from them. I would use the key phrases and listening if I must, but none of the other stuff.
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: alexisalex on April 17, 2020, 01:39:08 pm
I've always wondered why there isn't a set textbook for all native teachers to use.  Aren't we kind of wasted on using the Korean English textbooks?

I'm always flogging this dead horse but I genuinely believe there should be no native teachers in elementary schools.  If the aim is getting the Korean population to speak English then isn't this a monumental waste of resources?  KETs are more than capable of laying the groundwork of English learning alone.  I get the argument of pronunciation problems but to me that isn't a strong enough argument for allocating native teachers to elementary.

If the only aim is to pass a multiple choice English test then every single NET might as well just go home!

If the aim is more about exposing students to other cultures then forget everything above and stick NETs everywhere, who cares haha.
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: pkjh on April 17, 2020, 01:46:36 pm
I've always wondered why there isn't a set textbook for all native teachers to use.  Aren't we kind of wasted on using the Korean English textbooks?

I'm always flogging this dead horse but I genuinely believe there should be no native teachers in elementary schools.  If the aim is getting the Korean population to speak English then isn't this a monumental waste of resources?  KETs are more than capable of laying the groundwork of English learning alone.  I get the argument of pronunciation problems but to me that isn't a strong enough argument for allocating native teachers to elementary.

If the only aim is to pass a multiple choice English test then every single NET might as well just go home!

If the aim is more about exposing students to other cultures then forget everything above and stick NETs everywhere, who cares haha.
One of the main, original, reasons for placing NETs in public schools was to dissuade parents from sending their kids to hagwons. But because of the competitive nature of Korean parents, that didn't really help. Anyways, just by being there available for some kid to test out his English is pretty important imo. K-English teachers barely speak a word of English that isn't related to the book, and many are deathly afraid to speak it in front of their students.
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: alexisalex on April 17, 2020, 01:53:29 pm
One of the main, original, reasons for placing NETs in public schools was to dissuade parents from sending their kids to hagwons.

Ah I didn't know that but it does make a lot of sense, yeah.
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: oglop on April 17, 2020, 02:15:43 pm
I've always wondered why there isn't a set textbook for all native teachers to use.  Aren't we kind of wasted on using the Korean English textbooks?

I'm always flogging this dead horse but I genuinely believe there should be no native teachers in elementary schools.  If the aim is getting the Korean population to speak English then isn't this a monumental waste of resources?  KETs are more than capable of laying the groundwork of English learning alone.  I get the argument of pronunciation problems but to me that isn't a strong enough argument for allocating native teachers to elementary.

If the only aim is to pass a multiple choice English test then every single NET might as well just go home!

If the aim is more about exposing students to other cultures then forget everything above and stick NETs everywhere, who cares haha.
It's generally pointless teaching English if students aren't divided by level. Having kids that don't know their ABCs and fluent kids in the same class? Pointless
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: LIC on April 18, 2020, 12:08:28 am
I had reviews twice a year, every year, while I taught in Korea. Every time there were folks from the local office of education as well as NET's from around. I was also an observer for every other NET at least twice a year, usually 3 or 4 times.

Their and my opinions were always part of the debriefing both written and verbal.

I didn't care. I did my job. Year after year I was asked to stay...until I left.

But then again, I probably had a lot more to leave for than the rest of you.

I have a better life than you hahahahahahahahaaha hahahahahahahaha... ................... .........
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: VanIslander on April 19, 2020, 02:35:19 am
I have a better life than you hahahahahahahahaaha hahahahahahahaha... ................... .........
This is sad.

Would anyone who has a great life post that?
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: CO2 on April 19, 2020, 09:01:35 am
This is sad.

Would anyone who has a great life post that?

Hey. You.

Yeah you.

Hey!

Come here. Yeah, over here.

Listen carefully.

Did I ever tell you how cool I am?
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: hangook77 on April 20, 2020, 09:43:36 am
I wouldn't worry

At my local MOE, the Korean CTs complained to the MOE that many of the new NETs were inexperienced (well, no sh*t, a teaching license isn't required). Either way, more experienced NETs are preferred in my MOE. 

EXPERIENCE is the key.  Teaching licence has nothing to do with it.  Even certified teachers here aren't teachers like back home or the Korean teachers.  We are technically ESL teachers and this is something different.  (Many certified teachers I met got frustrated by this pretty quickly and either adapted themselves or moved on.)  Experience does matter a lot however.  Those of us who have been here and cut our chops.  It is good to see that being recognized more than 10 years ago.  I remember when being a pretty slim attractive blond haired blue eyed female under 25 was the most sought after teacher.  Looks like Koreans have smartened up and wanted experience.  Better for older teachers now.

I'd say tell all your co teachers to seek out experienced teachers.  They have to call the POE and the EPIK organization also and demand this.  EPIK I hear can have strange hiring criteria including rejecting people who have already taught here before.  I even heard several years ago one person who did interviewing for EPIK (via this site) that he rejected anyone over 40.  I assume such stupid arbitrary standards don't exist anymore or as much as before. 

But EPIK's hiring criteria is still a mystery.  So, Korean teachers should be contacting EPIK directly themselves and their teachers union wanting them to hire more experienced teachers. 
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: hangook77 on April 20, 2020, 09:46:16 am
It's generally pointless teaching English if students aren't divided by level. Having kids that don't know their ABCs and fluent kids in the same class? Pointless

Western style political correctness and "feeling" have been creeping into Korea for quite some time.  No one should feel "left out" or "left behind".  Teach to the middle and throw in a few things for some advanced kids and a couple of things for low level and carry on. 
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: Allpointseast on April 22, 2020, 09:18:08 am
Quote
[A lot of teachers cycle in and out after a year or two.  Don't worry about it. /quote]
Well, yes. Of course that happens. But it is also true that there are a good few people who leave after  6 months.  But I was shocked :shocked: to read about a certain person who had come all the way here to teach in a public school, and wanted to quit after just a couple of months! EPIK's application process has gotten trickier and more expensive over the years. One assumes that this was done to weed out the flakier people.
   Yet it still happens that people leave EPIK after a few months or do midnight runs. How come? It takes a lot more effort to get hear than it used to. So you would think you'd get committed, mature people. Nope. It's inexperienced newbies. Of course new teachers may have problems that aren't their fault.
   Back in the day, when EPIK was less popular, I remember meeting guys in their 30s and 40s who were with EPIK. They had been accountants and journalists back home, and they approached EPIK professionally. Surprisingly, the program was attracting serious teachers. Of course, there's also a minor point that seems to have escaped all Korean bosses. It's that the starting salary of 2.1 million won was worth a lot more back then.
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: Allpointseast on April 22, 2020, 09:19:54 am
To the OP: yes, it is a bad sign if most people are leaving after 1 year or less. It is a bad sign if you are hoping to be kept on next year, because you just might not be.
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: hautewingz on April 22, 2020, 11:22:51 am
To the OP: yes, it is a bad sign if most people are leaving after 1 year or less. It is a bad sign if you are hoping to be kept on next year, because you just might not be.

I have no idea how long these people have actually been there. I just got the job a couple months ago. I just noticed from the first time I checked their website, 5 of 8 of the NET's were brand new teachers. I don't know anyone from the school yet. I'm pretty sure it's a combination of all of the above. And if it sucks ass, I'm not a hostage so... Meh.
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: NorthStar on April 22, 2020, 11:46:25 am
Quote
[A lot of teachers cycle in and out after a year or two.  Don't worry about it. /quote]
Well, yes. Of course that happens. But it is also true that there are a good few people who leave after  6 months.  But I was shocked :shocked: to read about a certain person who had come all the way here to teach in a public school, and wanted to quit after just a couple of months! EPIK's application process has gotten trickier and more expensive over the years. One assumes that this was done to weed out the flakier people.
   Yet it still happens that people leave EPIK after a few months or do midnight runs. How come? It takes a lot more effort to get hear than it used to. So you would think you'd get committed, mature people. Nope. It's inexperienced newbies. Of course new teachers may have problems that aren't their fault.
   Back in the day, when EPIK was less popular, I remember meeting guys in their 30s and 40s who were with EPIK. They had been accountants and journalists back home, and they approached EPIK professionally. Surprisingly, the program was attracting serious teachers. Of course, there's also a minor point that seems to have escaped all Korean bosses. It's that the starting salary of 2.1 million won was worth a lot more back then.

..or, perhaps their dreams of living in a k-poop video were shattered and they leaned what teaching in Korea is all about...and, the fact these folks left does not necessarily reflect on being their fault. 
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: fruitloops on April 22, 2020, 12:32:30 pm
Quote
EPIK I hear can have strange hiring criteria including rejecting people who have already taught here before.  I even heard several years ago one person who did interviewing for EPIK (via this site) that he rejected anyone over 40.  I assume such stupid arbitrary standards don't exist anymore or as much as before. 


same reason why Miss Universe is only allowed to be 18 to 28 years old.  How stupid is that?   How can someone that young be considered Miss Universe? She probably hasn't even moved out of her parents house yet.

It's only because they look young and beautiful.  The pageant is so fake and everything that is wrong with this world.
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: oglop on April 22, 2020, 04:53:59 pm
well i think it's a bit rich to label yourself Miss Universe when you haven't even conquered intergalactic travel
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: CO4 on April 22, 2020, 07:54:31 pm
Luckily my school doesn't talk about the previous teacher who I replaced.  I'm relieved!
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: oglop on April 23, 2020, 07:16:10 am
Luckily my school doesn't talk about the previous teacher who I replaced.  I'm relieved!
hang on. what's going on here. now we have a CO2 and CO4, L I and LIC
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: CO2 on April 23, 2020, 08:59:49 am
Luckily my school doesn't talk about the previous teacher who I replaced.  I'm relieved!

Who dis bitch?

Actually, had a bit too much last night.............. ........ Could have created a troll account............ ....

But not at 849 PM haha, so it ain't me.
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: CO4 on April 23, 2020, 09:22:51 am
CO3 was taken!
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: L I on April 24, 2020, 02:58:28 am
https://www.waygook.org/index.php?topic=118661.msg806723#msg806723

Up next: oglob, tylerthegloop, and dippedinblue.

Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: CO2 on April 24, 2020, 06:46:58 am
https://www.waygook.org/index.php?topic=118661.msg806723#msg806723

Up next: oglob, tylerthegloop, and dippedinblue.



Okay, ㄴ ㅣ...... Or are you L1?
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: oglop on April 24, 2020, 07:10:55 am
Okay, ㄴ ㅣ...... Or are you L1?
Title: Re: Is it a bad sign when most of the NETs are new?
Post by: CO2 on April 24, 2020, 07:37:14 am


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