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Career Venue => Contract, and Job Related Issues => Topic started by: Piggydee on January 03, 2020, 07:36:46 am

Title: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: Piggydee on January 03, 2020, 07:36:46 am
I work for EPIK and like many of my friends, we are placed in rural areas all around Korea.  Some as far out as near the North Korean boarder, some in Osan or Pyungtek,  some in Busan and other areas near there. 

One thing all my EPIK friends have in common is why can't we get a public school more closer to Seoul?

I've heard it's highly competitive and the teachers who do get those positions rarely leave. 

But who really gets to get into those coveted positions?   Because my friend and I were shocked to see a fresh off the plane noobie at our orientation land herself in central Seoul, while most of us have been here for years and have asked around and yet still get places way out in the wild west of nowhere with long commutes to Seoul. 

Any ideas or opinions on this? :undecided:
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: lhelena on January 03, 2020, 07:48:31 am
I remember there being a handful of people at my orientation placed in Seoul. One of them was the teacher I was replacing! I honestly don't know how they get in and others don't. Most of them were noobies too.
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: CO2 on January 03, 2020, 07:52:15 am
(https://miro.medium.com/max/1313/1*W3OzDxKQa-uKeVTGJBUKhw.gif)
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: nightninja on January 03, 2020, 07:55:36 am
It might be something to do with keeping up appearances because I'm sure parents like young teachers from the US....experienced or not......I wanted Seoul when I first came here but was glad that I didn't get Seoul.....now (after 5 years)  I would like to be in Seoul but not as a public school teacher. I think my stress would increase 1000% if I had to deal with attitudes/behavior of students in Seoul. I am not sure, but I believe the most rural places do have better behavior most of the time (of course bad cases too) and Seoul has more disrespectful students etc.

I would like to be in Seoul doing something else.
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: oglop on January 03, 2020, 08:12:27 am
Just look for direct hires for private elementary schools. I always see ads for those about
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: plan b on January 03, 2020, 08:23:44 am
Just look for direct hires for private elementary schools. I always see ads for those about

I've been offered jobs by private elementary schools. They seem to pay less and be more work. The impression I get of them is of that of  a private hagwon, dressed up like an elementary school.
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: oglop on January 03, 2020, 08:26:28 am
Oh, really? Damn. Maybe I was just lucky at my school then. What do they usually pay?
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: plan b on January 03, 2020, 08:52:42 am
Oh, really? Damn. Maybe I was just lucky at my school then. What do they usually pay?

The pay varies throughout the year, months with afterschool classes are paid more. The places I interviewed at averaged out to 2.5 over the course of 12 months, but had no housing, and no housing allowance!
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: oglop on January 03, 2020, 08:55:41 am
yeah i get about 2.5m, but that's for 17 classes a week, and no desk warming. there's also two more classes per day for the after school program, which comes to another 2m a month. but, there's also a lot of unpaid vacation time

did the places you interview for have desk warming?
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: Piggydee on January 03, 2020, 09:00:24 am
It might be something to do with keeping up appearances because I'm sure parents like young teachers from the US....experienced or not......I wanted Seoul when I first came here but was glad that I didn't get Seoul.....now (after 5 years)  I would like to be in Seoul but not as a public school teacher. I think my stress would increase 1000% if I had to deal with attitudes/behavior of students in Seoul. I am not sure, but I believe the most rural places do have better behavior most of the time (of course bad cases too) and Seoul has more disrespectful students etc.

I would like to be in Seoul doing something else.

There was a whole topic on this on another post about rural kids vs city kids.  City kids I found were just as rude but rude with their mouth and not actual behavior (punching other students, throwing things, stealing things) 

Rural kids as another poster explained sometimes (sometimes) have a myriad of personal problems and thus creates it's own challenges in the classroom.  (I've had 40,000won stolen out of my purse at my first public school and as I stated at my second twice a week large public school it felt like I was working at a juvenile detention center.)   

While City kids are not as bad, they aren't the politest either when it comes to manners and how they address you.  Usually the city kids I worked with was during my hakwon years.  And thus, because they are "customers"  they acted as entitled as could be.

Rural kids can be far more polite but I found that working in a small village school they tend to be the most polite and are willing to apologize when they've done wrong.  Rural large public school kids kind of feel like you would be teaching at a low income inner city public school in America.  The same kind of attitudes and disobedience you would find there.   

But I have heard that the outskirts of Seoul (not central Seoul) have the most well behaved kids, that's according to my co-teachers who have had experience in the Ilsan areas. 

So yeah I'm not saying that I or my friends want to live in Gangnam, (though it would be nice) we are just saying we want to live close enough to Seoul where it doesn't take over an hour to reach popular areas by subway and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to get home by taxi when you are out late on the weekends.  Plus some where easy where other Seoul friends can visit you and you can easily visit them on a weekday. 

Like I NEVER venture out to Seoul on a weekday because it's too far and not worth it if I have to be back home by 10:30pm.   Which means I've missed out on a lot of happy hour after work with friends and trivia nights because I can only be social during the weekend.  Which is fine by me because it means I save money, but sometimes on some weekends when you don't feel like going out ALL THE WAY TO SEOUL, it can be kind of lonesome because none of your friends want to come by your area either because of you being sooo far away. 

The only time I had it good social wise was when I lived in the the Bundang area.  I had colleagues near by to have a quick Wednesday night beer and for the times we didn't want to go to Seoul, we had great bars and restaurants in the area to have a nice Friday Night Let some Steam out dinners.  But that was during my hakwon days, which I DO NOT MISS OR WANT TO GO BACK TO.

That's the trade off that some EPIK teachers are having to grapple with.  Continue teaching at a chill school with chill coworkers but IN NO MAN LAND NO WHERE or move to hip Seoul but have to put up with all the stress of a hakwon. 

Some teachers surprisingly are trading in the comfort, easy going job of public school to jump right into the fire that is hakwon in Seoul.   I guess if trivia night are really worth the parent complaints, micromanagement of directors, and copious amounts of busy work like after work phone teachings and bi monthly reports....ugh.  No thank you.   
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: nightninja on January 03, 2020, 09:17:41 am
I understand your feelings on that and I too would not want to work in a hakwon....anywhere. In my experience, my rural schools had the best behaved kids but my city school had really rude kids who refused to try.

I think I would mostly want to live in Seoul for the activities available, but then again I thought I would do a lot more moving from really really rural to a bigger city and I don't.......school, taekwondo, home repeat.
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: Piggydee on January 03, 2020, 09:27:38 am
I understand your feelings on that and I too would not want to work in a hakwon....anywhere. In my experience, my rural schools had the best behaved kids but my city school had really rude kids who refused to try.

I think I would mostly want to live in Seoul for the activities available, but then again I thought I would do a lot more moving from really really rural to a bigger city and I don't.......school, taekwondo, home repeat.

(Not saying this about you) But I think some reality shows and tv shows like "Friends," "Sex and the City" etc. have some people mind warped about how working adults behave after work or in our weekday lives.  It's not always met up with your best gal pals and bros (j/k) for some beers, martinis, and coffee. A lot of times it's just the routine you stated.  Work, exercise (if you do that) Sleep.  Or Work, Language class/church/hobby group, Sleep. 

And quiet frankly I actually have seen some IG stories of some people I know who do live in Seoul are always at the trivia nights, always at the pub, always grabbing drinks after dinner (not talking about the few glasses of beer/wine at home people) I'm talking about the it's "always a Saturday somewhere" type people.....and let's just say their appearance reflects their unhealthy lifestyle. 
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: theman3285 on January 03, 2020, 11:30:37 am
I've had 40,000won stolen out of my purse at my first public school
Same thing happened to me at my first school, super rural. 50,000 won note taken from my wallet. To be fair, my co-teacher did tell me not to leave my wallet lying around on my desk. But I thought she was just being paranoid.
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: nightninja on January 03, 2020, 12:19:52 pm
I've had 40,000won stolen out of my purse at my first public school
Same thing happened to me at my first school, super rural. 50,000 won note taken from my wallet. To be fair, my co-teacher did tell me not to leave my wallet lying around on my desk. But I thought she was just being paranoid.

So then what happened after you realized it was stolen? Did the school do anything?
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: Piggydee on January 03, 2020, 12:39:01 pm
I've had 40,000won stolen out of my purse at my first public school
Same thing happened to me at my first school, super rural. 50,000 won note taken from my wallet. To be fair, my co-teacher did tell me not to leave my wallet lying around on my desk. But I thought she was just being paranoid.

So then what happened after you realized it was stolen? Did the school do anything?

Nope.  I had my suspicions as to who it was.  And as per usual, it's always the kids who comes into class, with no pencil, who rips pages out of his book during class time to make mini paper balls to flick at other students.  This student also came into class everyday with a "what the point of ANY OF THIS ," look on his face.  He was seated closest to my desk and being the teacher who cared about his education and always asked him to stop sleeping in class, allowed him to borrow my pencils, and ask him politely to stop ripping up his book during class time; I guess after a while he got sick of hearing me and decided it was really "show me" by stealing my money. 

By the way am I the only one that really wanted to enforce a NO TEARING UP YOUR BOOK in class rule.  I don't mind the doodles in the book.  But real talk, it realized it was just the English book that got ripped to sherds half a months into semester.  Meanwhile, their 과학 (science book) and 사회 (social studies book) were in nice condition.  Guess that just goes to show how much respect the class and NET are given here by the students.   
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: Cohort 2019 on January 04, 2020, 03:40:05 am
Wow, that's awful. Stealing from your teacher. I've never heard of anyone doing that at school except at the very worst schools for juvenile delinquents.

In regards to the book, ignore it and him completely unless he throws it at you or another student. Then remove him. He's just in his own private hell, easier to blame whitey than to look at himself. Not so different from discussing terrorism at inner city schools. If you do expect books and shoes to be thrown at you.  ;D
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on January 04, 2020, 06:02:05 am
By the way am I the only one that really wanted to enforce a NO TEARING UP YOUR BOOK in class rule.  I don't mind the doodles in the book.  But real talk, it realized it was just the English book that got ripped to sherds half a months into semester.


I am with you on this one, teaching them respect for books, no matter what the subject is, is important.  If parents had to pay for the books then it may be a different story. In my country you pay for your books and so your parents make very sure you look after them because you can sell them at the end of the year to upcoming students.  It is not like Korea that change the book virtually every year. It's all a money-making scam as far as I am concerned.

I am really against free education for those who can afford it. A means test and subsidy for those who cannot afford it is the way to go IMO.
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: theman3285 on January 04, 2020, 07:39:44 am
In my country you pay for your books and so your parents make very sure you look after them because you can sell them at the end of the year to upcoming students. 
Ah yes - I remember this routine.
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: alexisalex on January 04, 2020, 08:01:04 am
Lol yeah I remember when I was in high school we had to "cover" our textbooks to protect them.  Most of us ended up using wrapping paper or old wallpaper samples.  Good times haha.
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: nightninja on January 06, 2020, 08:31:21 am
yeah, my schools at home always only had just enough text books and if you had a damaged book or lost it you would have to pay for the school to buy a new one. The textbooks were used for years, maybe the school bought a new one every  6 or 7 years.
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: Chinguetti on January 06, 2020, 09:02:32 am
My schools provided students with paper covers that were printed with ads and coupons, haha. I think this is how the schools got them for free to give to students. We all just flipped them over and drew our own doodles, or discarded them altogether for brown paper bags because somehow that was cooler. Some students got really fancy with them, too, had 3D origami going on combined with black marker to really make it all pop.

Those were the days.

Anyway, yeah, a lot of Seoul public schools have their pick of teachers, especially if they're flagship schools, and they care more about appearance than they do experience. For as long as they have fresh, young college grads with a particular look available, that's what they're going to go with. Better believe that qualifications and experience have nothing to do with that decision.
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: Allpointseast on January 13, 2020, 09:22:57 pm
 The OP's original question is very pertinent, and it touches on one of the weird contradictions of Korea. 20% of Koreans live in Seoul, with a population of 10 million people. Yet, it's rare for NETs to be placed there. On the other hand, it's far easier for western teachers to get a job in a tiny village in the bowels of forsaken Jeollanamdo, or next to the DMZ, where few people live. It seems an absurd contradiction. While SMOE used to hire lots of foreigners, Seoul was where president Lee Myungbak started cuttingg the nimbers of EPIK teachers first. His successor, JAILED President Park Geunhye, greatly increased cut backs. Yet she insisted on some increase in RURAL teachers, for rural students, which she believed, needed more help.

That situation hasn't fundamentally changed since 2017. What's clear is that after presidents Lee and Park had cut the numbers of EPIK teachers at SMOE, the numbers of public school foreign teachers in Seoul went down. It's not just that people are staying if they like their job. It's that there are fewer public school jobs in Seoul.
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: LIC on January 14, 2020, 11:45:01 am
Living in Korea isn't very pleasant to start with. But, living in Seoul would be hell. Give me the countryside. I live in a small countryside village in the tropics but am still a 15 minute drive from downtown.
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: shanebarry1986 on January 14, 2020, 01:08:49 pm
in the tropics

You crack me up! I don't know why, but this is so funny to me.
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: Cyanea on January 18, 2020, 04:22:52 am
  Because my friend and I were shocked to see a fresh off the plane noobie at our orientation land herself in central Seoul, while most of us have been here for years and have asked around and yet still get places way out in the wild west of nowhere with long commutes to Seoul.

They hire based on youth and looks, is the answer.

If you're in your twenties, blonde, female, white, north american and ok looking you can have any job you want in central Seoul. Gangnam, Jongno, wherever.

If you do not fit the above description then you will be moved outside of the capital. The less you match their very shallow requirements, the deeper into rural countryside you will be posted.
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: Cohort 2019 on January 18, 2020, 07:01:41 am
Is that how LIC ended up in the arctic?
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: hangook77 on February 05, 2020, 01:38:22 pm
Do folks still want to work for the Seoul public schools?  I heard their pay was garbage (2.0 million won), no renewal allowance (2.0 million won you get elsewhere each year), strict enforcement of every anal rule (including desk warming), etc.  No extra teaching, multiple school allowances, etc.  Pay less salary and you have more ridiculous work conditions (can't even go to the bank to pay your bills, etc).  A slight pay cut could be accepted as there is more in Seoul.  Like maybe a job could pay me a little less, maybe 2.8 or 2.9 million a month plus housing.  But dropping to 2.0 or 2.1 with no renewal bonus?  get bent!   
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: hangook77 on February 05, 2020, 01:40:13 pm
Also, rents are more expensive in Seoul nowadays.  Rental allowance is 500 K a month where it should be double that.  (Only Gangnam pays you decently?  You get 900 K a month for rental allowance?) 
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: Colburnnn on February 05, 2020, 04:49:40 pm
Yeah but in Seoul you can make vlogs and tell all your mates you live in Seoul innit.

Also, you can pay bills at an atm or on your phone at any time.
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: stoat on February 05, 2020, 06:35:05 pm
Also, rents are more expensive in Seoul nowadays.  Rental allowance is 500 K a month where it should be double that.  (Only Gangnam pays you decently?  You get 900 K a month for rental allowance?) 

That's only a reasonable deal if they pay the deposit as well. 900k alone wouldn't even get you an officetel in Gagnam. 900k plus a 10 mil deposit would get you a decent one room.
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: Cyanea on February 06, 2020, 12:05:36 am
Do folks still want to work for the Seoul public schools?  I heard their pay was garbage (2.0 million won), no renewal allowance (2.0 million won you get elsewhere each year), strict enforcement of every anal rule (including desk warming), etc.  No extra teaching, multiple school allowances, etc.  Pay less salary and you have more ridiculous work conditions (can't even go to the bank to pay your bills, etc).  A slight pay cut could be accepted as there is more in Seoul.  Like maybe a job could pay me a little less, maybe 2.8 or 2.9 million a month plus housing.  But dropping to 2.0 or 2.1 with no renewal bonus?  get bent!   

yeah I would take a pay cut to 3.5M per month if they made it P/T and threw in accom as well. Just to be in Seoul and closer to my g/f (she models and is based in G nam).
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: mrmv on February 06, 2020, 01:18:16 pm
Within EPIK, I've heard that the Seoul (SMOE) contract dates are actually  a few days earlier than other regions in Korea, making it impossible to transfer. I had a friend who was a 3rd year renewal in a rural area, applied for Seoul, and was told she couldn't because her school/district coordinator was unwilling to let her out of the contract a few days early.

I did manage to be placed in Seoul but only after leaving Korea and reapplying.  In the interview they said that  my previous school liked me (which I'm sure helped), but I've heard that it's pretty random. I'd say my quality of life is better (MUCH shorter commute, better apartment), but I'm making less than I did in my POE...
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: hangook77 on March 02, 2020, 10:47:35 am
yeah I would take a pay cut to 3.5M per month if they made it P/T and threw in accom as well. Just to be in Seoul and closer to my g/f (she models and is based in G nam).


Good luck with SMOE paying you 3.5 mil.  If you are far out however and travelling up to Seoul every weekend, then any money you're making out in the provinces are being burned up.  Could have dated a couple of hotties up there before, but I looked at the weekend travel expenses and realized it wasn't worth it.  (I still had loans and other debts I had to repay,  So had to cut it loose.) 

Anyhow, SMOE pay is garbage and they are much more anal with rules and interpretation of them too.  I'd sooner switch countries once this Corona crap clears in a year or so.  Screw SMOE!  (Unless they bring back the 2 million won renewal allowance and raise the salaries.  Then, maybe, I'd reconsider.) 
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: Allpointseast on March 04, 2020, 10:46:31 am
I am going to trie to answer the original question here.

Why is it so hard to get a job in Seoul? What is the rationale behind the allocation of public school jobs? EPIK itself is kind of opaque. If you ask them directly about such things  you'll get this:  :blank:  Also, rather than trying to imagine what EPIK is thinking, we can watch what it has done in the past, and what it does now. Before 2008, and to an extent after, I used to regularly see ads for jobs in Seoul, placed by SMOE in Seoul. Back in the day, the ad might say "50 teachers required," or whatever. Yes, getting a public school job in Seoul might have been a little harder than getting other jobs, but it was easier than now. I know people who came to work at SMOE public schools in 2001. At least one of these people left Seoul and went to China, a year ago, because of high living costs and his low salary. From what he and others have told me, back in the day, there was a much higher demand for public school jobs in Seoul, and in Korea generally. He told me SMOE orientations were much bigger. One can infer from this that nowadays lots of public schools in Seoul don't get a native English speaker.

President Lee Myungbak wanted to greatly increase the English fluency of Korean kids. He wanted visible results, fairly soon. So, he quickly ramped up the public schools program, at the same time as tightening visa requirements. He got his wish in the wake of the Great Recession, because lots of teachers came here from Canada and other places. But in 2011, a study showed-or seemed to show-that they weren't getting the fast improvements in English. So, Lee's administration started to cut back the program, beginning with Seoul. Also, my friend who used to teach with SMOE told me one Seoul mayor chose to cut back on western teachers so the kids who needed them could get free school meals.

The next president, Park Geun-hye, cut the program back a lot more, phasing out jobs in high schools and middle schools  outside Seoul. She went a lot further than Lee had gone. Some jobs were cut halfway through the year. On the other hand, she actually wanted to increase the number of jobs in rural areas, where she thought that EPIK could make a difference.

The short answer to your question is:
1). There aren't that many public school positions in Seoul, because a lot of schools in Seoul are without a native teacher. I know more people who have left these positions than people who have joined.

2). The last president, the one who got jailed, increased the jobs in rural areas.

Now someone told me that unusually, the current president wanted to follow Park Geunhye's guidelines in regard to EPIK, UNTIL 2021. This guy was quite angry that a supposedly progressive politician would do this. However, that guy was a drunk Irishman I met in a pub, so I am not sure if that rumour is true. What I can say is that EPIK now is not that different to what it was in 2017. I am sure someone will beg to differ. But rural jobs are still prioritised, it seems.

   I would probably enjoy it a lot if I had a public school job in Pyeongtaek or Osan. At least, if I was actually placed within these cities, and not some village 5 miles away.
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: SPQR on March 04, 2020, 11:36:45 am
They hire based on youth and looks, is the answer.

If you're in your twenties, blonde, female, white, north american and ok looking you can have any job you want in central Seoul. Gangnam, Jongno, wherever.

If you do not fit the above description then you will be moved outside of the capital. The less you match their very shallow requirements, the deeper into rural countryside you will be posted.

Same for Korean women.  All the hot ones can get jobs in Seoul. The "others"
have to stay in their boring hometown full of farmers, geriatrics and dog farms.
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: hangook77 on March 06, 2020, 10:51:43 pm
I am going to trie to answer the original question here.

Why is it so hard to get a job in Seoul? What is the rationale behind the allocation of public school jobs? EPIK itself is kind of opaque. If you ask them directly about such things  you'll get this:  :blank:  Also, rather than trying to imagine what EPIK is thinking, we can watch what it has done in the past, and what it does now. Before 2008, and to an extent after, I used to regularly see ads for jobs in Seoul, placed by SMOE in Seoul. Back in the day, the ad might say "50 teachers required," or whatever. Yes, getting a public school job in Seoul might have been a little harder than getting other jobs, but it was easier than now. I know people who came to work at SMOE public schools in 2001. At least one of these people left Seoul and went to China, a year ago, because of high living costs and his low salary. From what he and others have told me, back in the day, there was a much higher demand for public school jobs in Seoul, and in Korea generally. He told me SMOE orientations were much bigger. One can infer from this that nowadays lots of public schools in Seoul don't get a native English speaker.

President Lee Myungbak wanted to greatly increase the English fluency of Korean kids. He wanted visible results, fairly soon. So, he quickly ramped up the public schools program, at the same time as tightening visa requirements. He got his wish in the wake of the Great Recession, because lots of teachers came here from Canada and other places. But in 2011, a study showed-or seemed to show-that they weren't getting the fast improvements in English. So, Lee's administration started to cut back the program, beginning with Seoul. Also, my friend who used to teach with SMOE told me one Seoul mayor chose to cut back on western teachers so the kids who needed them could get free school meals.

The next president, Park Geun-hye, cut the program back a lot more, phasing out jobs in high schools and middle schools  outside Seoul. She went a lot further than Lee had gone. Some jobs were cut halfway through the year. On the other hand, she actually wanted to increase the number of jobs in rural areas, where she thought that EPIK could make a difference.

The short answer to your question is:
1). There aren't that many public school positions in Seoul, because a lot of schools in Seoul are without a native teacher. I know more people who have left these positions than people who have joined.

2). The last president, the one who got jailed, increased the jobs in rural areas.

Now someone told me that unusually, the current president wanted to follow Park Geunhye's guidelines in regard to EPIK, UNTIL 2021. This guy was quite angry that a supposedly progressive politician would do this. However, that guy was a drunk Irishman I met in a pub, so I am not sure if that rumour is true. What I can say is that EPIK now is not that different to what it was in 2017. I am sure someone will beg to differ. But rural jobs are still prioritised, it seems.

   I would probably enjoy it a lot if I had a public school job in Pyeongtaek or Osan. At least, if I was actually placed within these cities, and not some village 5 miles away.


Some of the funding came from local governments or local organizations.  Some of it comes from the national government.  In 2011 and 2012 or so, it was actually local governments getting elected (Democratic party) that cut it's share and wanted to quickly eliminate positions.  Park Geun Hye did reduce some but these local "progressive" governments got elected in Seoul and Gyeong gi and cut more.  The goal was to reduce to 0 but parents wanted native speakers so politicians backed down a bit.  They still cut but didn't go through with any more.  This was stressful at a time, the US economy had still not recovered and other countries were only beginning to emerge as an ESL destination.  SO, it was stressful.  Those of us who lived elsewhere figured cuts would come down to the other provinces eventually.  We even got notice of potential cuts by about 2015 that never materialized.  Though recently, Ulsan elected a Democratic mayor and he did cut the local funding for nets.  Ulsan is usually Saenueri or whatever they call themselves now,  So, I suspect he will be a one termer.  The fallout from a prosecution investigation of the last mayor and the bad feeling from the impeachment caused a rare change there. 

A few years ago when the cuts were coming down the pipe, the job was still decent paid in relation to inflation at the time, though some countries were screwed on the exchange rate.  Some of us have better exchange rates now but a much higher cost of living.  If we are cut, Korea will shoot itself in the foot as other countries have risen up to take over.  China even with regressing on some openness and once it gets over Corona is still paying much more with a cheaper cost of living.  However, Vietnam is becoming a new hot spot and much less repressive.  Though foreigners will be fine in China as long as they don't meddle in CCP business.  But if you have an ethical problem with it, there is still Vietnam.  With a formal TESOL in class 120 hour certificate or CELTA / DELTA and experience, other places will have places that pay a good wage too.  You can search online.  Even some jobs in Japan have offered partial flight reimbursement which they didn't do before.  Some have also raised their salary to 270,000 yen and 280,000 Yen.  I do remember seeing this not too long ago.  Some public school contractors also seem to have good offers though Interact still seems crappy. 

Anyways, if Korea pulls the plug this time, there are other options.  I had a friend get non renewed out in the country due to some petty Korean contract teacher.  He was married to a FIlipino woman.  He was struggling to stay afloat the last couple of years.  He went over there to China to an "international" school (and he doesn't have an education degree).  He and his FIlipino wife are teaching there now.  He says he works harder than rural EPIK (which did tend to be kind of slack sometimes), but he says they are both working and saving a huge amount of cash together.  They have free housing and free child care.  He said, getting the boot was the est thing to happen to him.  School even bought them good air purifiers for their home. 

I guess in a nutshell, if Korea cuts now, it'll regret it.  Though Korea is much less xenophobic than it was 10 to 15 years ago, there are still some hidden elements that would love to get rid of us.  But Korea will catch itself without teachers and it will backfire in the long run.  The low wages for some jobs and for SMOE, I suspect has caused many experienced teachers to leave.  Some young kids who probably had rich parents who paid for their schooling, had no debt, and are single may still love that 2.1 million.  But if they get married here, they are screwed unless they go home. 

Also if you don't mind going blue collar or trades and living in smaller towns, there's probably money to be made in some pockets in America now.  (Smaller towns to avoid the bs rent prices on the coasts.)  So, there's that. 
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: waygo0k on March 07, 2020, 01:05:22 pm
Itís too late, korea has already shot itself in the foot. Even before the coronavirus situation, schools and hagwons were already having a bit of a hard time filling their 2.1mil plus 10 day holiday vacancies. Now with the coronavirus in full swing, people arenít just willing to not come to Asia, those in Asia are already getting TFO.

If there was a time for NETs to collectively start bargaining for better pay and conditions...THIS IS IT. The ball, the net, the referee, the scoreboards are all literally in your court. You may not be able to force public schoolsí hands, but you can sure as hell tell your hagwons to go to hell if theyíre not properly compensating you for sticking around in the middle of this crisis.

NETs should have their hagwon bosses by the balls for at least the next contract year if not longer. Will this actually happen...probably not.
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: NorthStar on March 07, 2020, 06:37:52 pm
Itís too late, korea has already shot itself in the foot. Even before the coronavirus situation, schools and hagwons were already having a bit of a hard time filling their 2.1mil plus 10 day holiday vacancies. Now with the coronavirus in full swing, people arenít just willing to not come to Asia, those in Asia are already getting TFO.

If there was a time for NETs to collectively start bargaining for better pay and conditions...THIS IS IT. The ball, the net, the referee, the scoreboards are all literally in your court. You may not be able to force public schoolsí hands, but you can sure as hell tell your hagwons to go to hell if theyíre not properly compensating you for sticking around in the middle of this crisis.

NETs should have their hagwon bosses by the balls for at least the next contract year if not longer. Will this actually happen...probably not.

...agreed.
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: oglop on March 07, 2020, 06:44:43 pm
is there any....evidence that schools were finding it hard to fill positions?

and, besides, the coronavirus seems to be spreading everywhere, so i doubt people will worry about coming to korea if it's already present in their own countries
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: L I on March 07, 2020, 07:08:57 pm
is there any....evidence that schools were finding it hard to fill positions?

No. No evidence. The number of positions open declines slightly every year. Demand is going down bit by bit. At the same time supply is going up due increased awareness among the down and out and to a lesser extent because of the worldwide popularity of Kpop. Japan's been considered cool among a small niche in the West for a while. Now Korea is, too.
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: Lazio on March 07, 2020, 08:22:10 pm
It’s too late, korea has already shot itself in the foot. Even before the coronavirus situation, schools and hagwons were already having a bit of a hard time filling their 2.1mil plus 10 day holiday vacancies. Now with the coronavirus in full swing, people aren’t just willing to not come to Asia, those in Asia are already getting TFO.

If there was a time for NETs to collectively start bargaining for better pay and conditions...THIS IS IT. The ball, the net, the referee, the scoreboards are all literally in your court. You may not be able to force public schools’ hands, but you can sure as hell tell your hagwons to go to hell if they’re not properly compensating you for sticking around in the middle of this crisis.

NETs should have their hagwon bosses by the balls for at least the next contract year if not longer. Will this actually happen...probably not.

What you are forgetting is that the hagwon industry is being hit very hard by the virus. Many will have trouble staying in business, especially if it drags on even longer. Negotiating a raise with the NETs is the least of their problem right now. I'm guessing the smaller places would just simply stop hiring foreigners to lower their losses.
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: L I on March 07, 2020, 09:05:12 pm
The low wages for some jobs and for SMOE, I suspect has caused many experienced teachers to leave.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1Ih_nV79eE
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: stoat on March 07, 2020, 09:54:05 pm
I wonder how much those women who stand around in the food section of Lotte dept store earn. Personally I find them a negative experience when shopping, so it can't be that much. 
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: NorthStar on March 07, 2020, 10:01:21 pm
Quote
supply is going up due increased awareness among the down and out and to a lesser extent because of the worldwide popularity of Kpop

...shite attracts flies.

Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: NorthStar on March 07, 2020, 11:39:54 pm
#1 on the kpop flo chart:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OvyA2__Eas

Can you resist dancing along?

Is it possible?

I gave it a go....I got nauseous. 

Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: oglop on March 07, 2020, 11:41:16 pm
Sounds like Gold Bar (or Thursday Party). And that isn't good
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: waygo0k on March 08, 2020, 02:19:53 am
What you are forgetting is that the hagwon industry is being hit very hard by the virus. Many will have trouble staying in business, especially if it drags on even longer. Negotiating a raise with the NETs is the least of their problem right now. I'm guessing the smaller places would just simply stop hiring foreigners to lower their losses.

For hagwons that donít make that much money and donít save, yeah theyíre being hit hard. For the hagwons that have spent the last few years banking...they can afford both the financial hit from the virus and paying their NETs up to a million more per month.

The other side of the coin is after this whole thing blows over and hagwons realise they can actually get away with a lot more than they originally realised, contract terms and conditions will get much worse much quicker than anyone can expect.
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: NorthStar on March 08, 2020, 10:14:26 am
For hagwons that donít make that much money and donít save, yeah theyíre being hit hard. For the hagwons that have spent the last few years banking...they can afford both the financial hit from the virus and paying their NETs up to a million more per month.

The other side of the coin is after this whole thing blows over and hagwons realise they can actually get away with a lot more than they originally realised, contract terms and conditions will get much worse much quicker than anyone can expect.

Quote
The teaches standing by, will realize they while working Saturdays to try and make up some lost time/classes, will not be receiving any overtime, nor will they be receiving their summer vacation.  I realize this will not apply to ALL  but most


That, right there. 

Personally, I don't have much sympathy for the hagwons.  Bosses are saying they are in a tight spot and employees should be understanding and not mean about it (yes, I have heard this). 

Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: L I on March 08, 2020, 11:52:02 am
Advice from a millionaire:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMnmJlFxxZQ
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: hangook77 on March 30, 2020, 12:31:28 pm
For hagwons that donít make that much money and donít save, yeah theyíre being hit hard. For the hagwons that have spent the last few years banking...they can afford both the financial hit from the virus and paying their NETs up to a million more per month.

The other side of the coin is after this whole thing blows over and hagwons realise they can actually get away with a lot more than they originally realised, contract terms and conditions will get much worse much quicker than anyone can expect.

If it goes away elsewhere and hakwons try it, they'll just lose more people to China, Vietnam, etc.  (Obviously, when the virus is gone.)  They want to be greedy, I guess that's their business.  But, don't complain about lack of teachers or lack of decent teachers.  At this point, it's only rich kids that can afford to come over here and teach.  Those where mom and dad paid their way through school and they have no debt.  If you got debt, a 2.1 million or less hakwon won't cut it in this day and age, along with a bad exchange rate. 
Title: Re: Why is it so hard to get a public school job in Seoul?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 30, 2020, 02:07:46 pm


That, right there. 

Personally, I don't have much sympathy for the hagwons.  Bosses are saying they are in a tight spot and employees should be understanding and not mean about it (yes, I have heard this).
I think it depends on the hagwon. Some small hagwon and the owner is basically living a middle class life vs. some Mega Hagwon where the owner is making bank are completely different circumstances.

Unfortunately because of this things are going to get disrupted and people may end up having to do things like teach on Saturday. I mean, the entire world is basically going through a disaster and people are going to have to do things differently for a bit to get things back to normal. Everyone is going to have to adjust.