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All about South Korea => Korea Newsroom => Topic started by: confusedsafferinkorea on August 29, 2019, 11:58:49 am

Title: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on August 29, 2019, 11:58:49 am
https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3768697

Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
2019 WBSC U-18 Baseball World Cup to be held in Busan, S. Korea
  506     

By Zin Kao, Taiwan News, Staff Writer


TAIPEI (Taiwan News) – The team members and coaches of Japan's U-18 national team were seen wearing plain white shirts without their country's name or flag printed on them when departing for South Korea from Narita Airport this morning (Aug. 28), NHK reports.

The 2019 WBSC U-18 Baseball World Cup will begin in Busan, South Korea, on Friday (Aug. 30). Amid the recent deterioration of the Japan-South Korea relationship and growing anti-Japanese sentiment in South Korea, the Japan High School Baseball Federation (Koyaren) announced on Tuesday (Aug. 27) that all team members and coaches are required to wear undecorated white shirts when arriving in, and departing from, South Korea.

The director-general of Koyaren, Masahiko Takenaka (竹中雅彥), said the federation had decided not to show anything Japan-related because of “concerns about Korean people’s feelings.” He also emphasized that politics and sports are two separate things and that Koyaren's concern is helping the players compete without worries.

In addition, Koyaren has forbidden the players from going out alone in their free time or wearing team uniforms on the streets for their safety. It is discouraging them from leaving the hotel at all, saying that the convenience store inside the hotel should satisfy their needs.

Both the Busan police and the Japanese Consulate General in Busan have warned about anti-Japan demonstrations in the city and urged Japanese visitors to stay out of protest areas to avoid any unnecessary quarrels. Busan is the city most visited by Japanese, but anti-Japanese sentiment is on the rise, with some restaurants even putting up notices that say “not serving Japanese."


Koyaren’s decision has been understood by the Japanese public as a safety measure. However, Takenaka’s remarks, which some fans perceive as prioritizing the “concerns about Korean people’s feelings” over protecting the young players, are under attack.
Title: Re: So pathetic
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on August 29, 2019, 01:01:22 pm
This isn't that out of the ordinary for sports events. Most players don't go parading around town in their visiting kits and teams generally try and keep things chill.

I do agree its a sad turn of events that people are worried Koreans will be more like Europeans or South Americans rather than North Americans in how they deal with sports and visiting athletes.
Title: Re: So pathetic
Post by: OnNut81 on August 29, 2019, 02:31:31 pm
This isn't that out of the ordinary for sports events. Most players don't go parading around town in their visiting kits and teams generally try and keep things chill.

I do agree its a sad turn of events that people are worried Koreans will be more like Europeans or South Americans rather than North Americans in how they deal with sports and visiting athletes.

I went to this event when it was in Seoul around six years ago.  All the players were out and about in their gear or with jackets.  Some smart people were going around the area around Mok Dong stadium with a program going up and asking for as many autographs as they could get.  Some of these guys may be major leaguers one day.  I actually got asked by a Korean guy in the stadium if I was in the program.  I guess he thought I was a manager or coach.  Anyways, the players were having a good time and were roaming all over in identifying garb.  What the Japanese players are being told to do, especially not leaving the hotel, is not the norm and is unfortunate for the players.

Your second point is a smooth deflection, I must admit.  However, no one was tying in the behavior to Europeans or South Americans.  This is only out of concern of Korean behavior that they are doing this.  The responsibility for the Japanese players having to go incognito lies solely with the petty mind of the Koreans who are on board with this NO Boycott Japan garbage.  I know trying to bring in European and South American behavior on this comforts you Martin, but this is on Korea and Koreans only.  No one is talking about them behaving like other fans, just Korean fans. 

Title: Re: So pathetic
Post by: oglop on August 29, 2019, 02:58:01 pm
in a story i'm teaching this week, someone goes to japan. in every single class i teach, the whole class erupted when they saw the word "japan" saying things like "japan bad", "japan dirty", "i hate japan", etc. they are in 5th grade. it's fucking mental.
Title: Re: So pathetic
Post by: Kayos on August 29, 2019, 03:24:17 pm
in a story i'm teaching this week, someone goes to japan. in every single class i teach, the whole class erupted when they saw the word "japan" saying things like "japan bad", "japan dirty", "i hate japan", etc. they are in 5th grade. it's fucking mental.

I had a picture of a random 7-11 in one of my ppt's yesterday, and in the class, the students saw 7-11 and went really angry, because "7-11 is Japan!" Took my co-t 15 minutes to calm them down, over a really small picture of 7-11. D: (granted, this was in the worst class, of my school that is mostly delinquent students - some these students have broken windows and doors during classes, started a small fire, and often steal from teacher's bags / desks).

But yeah, this boycott Japan thing is stupid. >.<
Title: Re: So pathetic
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on August 29, 2019, 03:34:13 pm
This isn't that out of the ordinary for sports events. Most players don't go parading around town in their visiting kits and teams generally try and keep things chill.

Mr DM, it out of the ordinary, this is a world championship and I can assure you that if you attend any international sporting event in any country (except Korea, it seems), you will find teams displaying their country's colors, so I call b/s on that.

I am keen to know if any other country has been told the same.

I think this is despicable.  This hatred thing of Japan is getting out of hand.  I know that Korea had a bad time under the Japanese (though I do think there was some collusion on the part of Korea with regards to the comfort women) and I am NOT condoning it at all, but other countries suffered too, the Philippines for one, there was nothing left of their country when the Japanese were defeated. However, they have moved on and Japan is one of their closest allies now.  In my 11 years of traveling and living there I have NEVER heard one Filipino say anything like I hate the Japanese, quite the opposite in fact.

Its time Korea moved on.
Title: Re: So pathetic
Post by: JNM on August 29, 2019, 04:15:38 pm
This isn't that out of the ordinary for sports events. Most players don't go parading around town in their visiting kits and teams generally try and keep things chill.

Mr DM, it out of the ordinary, this is a world championship and I can assure you that if you attend any international sporting event in any country (except Korea, it seems), you will find teams displaying their country's colors, so I call b/s on that.

I am keen to know if any other country has been told the same.

I think this is despicable.  This hatred thing of Japan is getting out of hand.  I know that Korea had a bad time under the Japanese (though I do think there was some collusion on the part of Korea with regards to the comfort women) and I am NOT condoning it at all, but other countries suffered too, the Philippines for one, there was nothing left of their country when the Japanese were defeated. However, they have moved on and Japan is one of their closest allies now.  In my 11 years of traveling and living there I have NEVER heard one Filipino say anything like I hate the Japanese, quite the opposite in fact.

Its time Korea moved on.

I can confirm that plenty of “National kit” from visiting athletes and fans was worn on the streets during the 2018 Winter Olympics, in [checks notes] South Korea.
Title: Re: So pathetic
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on August 29, 2019, 05:49:04 pm
This isn't that out of the ordinary for sports events. Most players don't go parading around town in their visiting kits and teams generally try and keep things chill.

Mr DM, it out of the ordinary, this is a world championship and I can assure you that if you attend any international sporting event in any country (except Korea, it seems), you will find teams displaying their country's colors, so I call b/s on that.

I am keen to know if any other country has been told the same.

I think this is despicable.  This hatred thing of Japan is getting out of hand.  I know that Korea had a bad time under the Japanese (though I do think there was some collusion on the part of Korea with regards to the comfort women) and I am NOT condoning it at all, but other countries suffered too, the Philippines for one, there was nothing left of their country when the Japanese were defeated. However, they have moved on and Japan is one of their closest allies now.  In my 11 years of traveling and living there I have NEVER heard one Filipino say anything like I hate the Japanese, quite the opposite in fact.

Its time Korea moved on.

I can confirm that plenty of “National kit” from visiting athletes and fans was worn on the streets during the 2018 Winter Olympics, in [checks notes] South Korea.

When I said "parading around I meant in the context of being out and about. Most try to keep things low key simply for focus reasons and such, nothing political related. That's what I keant. Obviously on the ride from the airport they might but generally they'd be in normal clothes hust blending in. Not doing some group tour in full regalia.
Title: Re: So pathetic
Post by: oglop on August 29, 2019, 07:27:35 pm
in a story i'm teaching this week, someone goes to japan. in every single class i teach, the whole class erupted when they saw the word "japan" saying things like "japan bad", "japan dirty", "i hate japan", etc. they are in 5th grade. it's fucking mental.

I had a picture of a random 7-11 in one of my ppt's yesterday, and in the class, the students saw 7-11 and went really angry, because "7-11 is Japan!" Took my co-t 15 minutes to calm them down, over a really small picture of 7-11. D: (granted, this was in the worst class, of my school that is mostly delinquent students - some these students have broken windows and doors during classes, started a small fire, and often steal from teacher's bags / desks).

But yeah, this boycott Japan thing is stupid. >.<
oh yeah. they were doing that too. "Lotte World" was in an example sentence. suddenly everyone hates Lotte because they are japanese. **** me
Title: Re: So pathetic
Post by: JNM on August 29, 2019, 08:01:16 pm
This isn't that out of the ordinary for sports events. Most players don't go parading around town in their visiting kits and teams generally try and keep things chill.

Mr DM, it out of the ordinary, this is a world championship and I can assure you that if you attend any international sporting event in any country (except Korea, it seems), you will find teams displaying their country's colors, so I call b/s on that.

I am keen to know if any other country has been told the same.

I think this is despicable.  This hatred thing of Japan is getting out of hand.  I know that Korea had a bad time under the Japanese (though I do think there was some collusion on the part of Korea with regards to the comfort women) and I am NOT condoning it at all, but other countries suffered too, the Philippines for one, there was nothing left of their country when the Japanese were defeated. However, they have moved on and Japan is one of their closest allies now.  In my 11 years of traveling and living there I have NEVER heard one Filipino say anything like I hate the Japanese, quite the opposite in fact.

Its time Korea moved on.

I can confirm that plenty of “National kit” from visiting athletes and fans was worn on the streets during the 2018 Winter Olympics, in [checks notes] South Korea.

When I said "parading around I meant in the context of being out and about. Most try to keep things low key simply for focus reasons and such, nothing political related. That's what I keant. Obviously on the ride from the airport they might but generally they'd be in normal clothes hust blending in. Not doing some group tour in full regalia.

Nope.

Source: was a (possibly obnoxious) Canadian fan at the 2018 Olympics
Title: Re: So pathetic
Post by: Aristocrat on August 29, 2019, 09:29:55 pm
I had the displeasure of going back to school and teaching 2 weeks before any other elementary school opened, the principal has some screwy ideas. This was right when the boycott started getting attention.

Everyone is entitled to their political opinion, but when it's the entire damn class of children, from 4th to 6th grade getting into a fervor when anything remotely related to Japan pops on the screen, something is seriously wrong. My CT and I discussed the issue and her opinion was that these kids hear all the talk from the fathers at the dinner table.

Like any rational person, I was intrigued by this whole debacle and did my research on the topic. It turns out to be rather complicated, far more complicated for a child to comprehend, let alone have such a passionate opinion. My guess is, most people really don't understand the dynamics of the issue and are simply jumping on the nationalist train.

Title: Re: So pathetic
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on August 29, 2019, 10:33:36 pm


Your second point is a smooth deflection, I must admit.  However, no one was tying in the behavior to Europeans or South Americans.  This is only out of concern of Korean behavior that they are doing this.  The responsibility for the Japanese players having to go incognito lies solely with the petty mind of the Koreans who are on board with this NO Boycott Japan garbage.  I know trying to bring in European and South American behavior on this comforts you Martin, but this is on Korea and Koreans only.  No one is talking about them behaving like other fans, just Korean fans.

Granted this was posted after my reply, but it's by OP and I think it shows that he was thinking along those lines

This isn't that out of the ordinary for sports events. Most players don't go parading around town in their visiting kits and teams generally try and keep things chill.

Mr DM, it out of the ordinary, this is a world championship and I can assure you that if you attend any international sporting event in any country (except Korea, it seems), you will find teams displaying their country's colors, so I call b/s on that.

I am keen to know if any other country has been told the same.
Henreikh Mkhitaryan at this year's Europa League was unable to travel with Arsenal to Azerbaijan because of his Armenian descent and they could not guarantee his safety.

Do you seriously think other team's players are just strolling through the streets of Eastern European cities in full kit? Do you think Rangers players are roaming the streets of Glasgow fully decked out? Do you think if England and Ireland had a match in Ireland that there wouldn't be similar precautions?

I agree that it's despicable and there is no place for that in sport, but this is probably just the club taking every precaution if some nutcase tries something. Has there been any credible threat leveled against them? Is there a mass protest planned? It's definitely sad, but trying to label this as something uniquely Korean is just off.

There have been two really notable incidents- One the banners in Jung-gu, which got such a backlash from the public that they were taken down, and the Japanese woman who was assaulted. The Korean guy claims it wasn't because of nationality, which I am skeptical of, but the fact is that the act was met with swift condemnation by the public.

So yes, it's a shame that in this time of whipped up passions that a few crazies might do something and that IS on some of the rhetoric that is coming from some Korean politicians and public figures, but you can't say that the entire country is responsible for such concerns when they have demonstrated that they make a distinction between the Japanese government and the Japanese people.

I do hope President Moon does something like attending this event and making a public stand against intolerance because things are too heated, but I also think that people are showing that same tendency which they are speaking out on in painting Koreans with such a broad brush and singling them out as uniquely bad.
Title: Re: So pathetic
Post by: VanIslander on August 29, 2019, 11:38:12 pm
After 9/11, France did not support the American military and gov't plan to bomb Iraq, calling it a grab for oil, not a genuine attack against WMDs.

U.S. right wingers spoke of changing "French fries" (a Belgian creation) to "freedom fries".

The American right wing, Republican anger toward France and all things French was PATHETIC!

Just saying...
Title: Re: So pathetic
Post by: L I on August 30, 2019, 05:40:54 am
The percentage of Americans boycotting France then was less than the percentage of Koreans boycotting Japan now.
Title: Re: So pathetic
Post by: Chinguetti on August 30, 2019, 07:52:59 am
Yeah, have to agree with L I on this one, the number of Americans who actually participated in that French boycott was an extreme minority -- the majority mocked them, including other Republicans, and it fizzled out very quickly.

This Japan boycott might be in the same spirit, but it's a lot more widespread and detrimental to the country and its people as a whole. It's definitely not a fair comparison, neither does it reduce the fact that this current event is still a serious issue.

Even worse is that there isn't much of a platform for others to speak against it. There are many Koreans who don't agree with the boycott and would prefer diplomacy, but it's hard for them to speak out because the national fervor keeps rising.
Title: Re: So pathetic
Post by: waygo0k on August 30, 2019, 08:06:06 am

Henreikh Mkhitaryan at this year's Europa League was unable to travel with Arsenal to Azerbaijan because of his Armenian descent and they could not guarantee his safety.

Do you seriously think other team's players are just strolling through the streets of Eastern European cities in full kit? Do you think Rangers players are roaming the streets of Glasgow fully decked out? Do you think if England and Ireland had a match in Ireland that there wouldn't be similar precautions?

Umm...actually, yes. While on official club or national team duty, players often wear clothing with the club's/FA's logo on it.

Arsenal players arrive in Baku, Azerbaijan
(https://ww2.ona.az/upload/news/2019/may/25/big/145ce990ab516c0.jpg)

Heck, even Cricket players wear official club/nation gear while on duty in the streets
(https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/men/2019/06/07/TELEMMGLPICT000157678145_trans%2B%2BpVlberWd9EgFPZtcLiMQfyf2A9a6I9YchsjMeADBa08.jpeg)

In their free time, yes players wear what they want. But during matchdays, tournaments and competitions, they are on duty and more often than not only wear club-provided clothing.

It's obviously different in the US where NBA and NFL players get to wear whatever they want to the stadium.


Title: Re: So pathetic
Post by: thunderlips on August 30, 2019, 08:52:46 am
This isn't that out of the ordinary for sports events. Most players don't go parading around town in their visiting kits and teams generally try and keep things chill.

I do agree its a sad turn of events that people are worried Koreans will be more like Europeans or South Americans rather than North Americans in how they deal with sports and visiting athletes.


 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 http://youtu.be/wZS4gNVvW7o

 http://youtu.be/iSVRMmUGgyI
Title: Re: So pathetic
Post by: tylerthegloob on August 30, 2019, 09:46:14 am
idk... general rioting, while dangerous and disruptive, seems less bad than targeting specific individuals of a country you don't like (only because they are from that country)
Title: Re: So pathetic
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on August 30, 2019, 11:47:11 am
In their free time, yes players wear what they want. But during matchdays, tournaments and competitions, they are on duty and more often than not only wear club-provided clothing.
I explicitly stated that I wasn't referring to travel to and from their facilities. I was talking about being out and about. The Japanese team is still going to wear its uniforms on the bus to the stadium. But not be in full regalia touring Busan. If the entire Arsenal squad decided to visit Disneyland, I doubt they'd be in full kit (unless some promotion was involved).

Also, weird you chose Arsenal at Baku considering Mkhitaryan wasn't able to join his teammates because Azerbaijan couldn't guarantee his personal safety or the team's were he to join them.
Title: Re: So pathetic
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on August 30, 2019, 11:51:30 am
Even worse is that there isn't much of a platform for others to speak against it. There are many Koreans who don't agree with the boycott and would prefer diplomacy, but it's hard for them to speak out because the national fervor keeps rising.
Evidently they had platform enough to get the banners taken down in Jung-gu.

If we want a more apt comparison, I'd say Chick-fil-A back home. There is an actual serious boycott of them by many on the left. And if you have a lot of left-leaning friends, don't you dare say anything positive or post on social media that you ate there.
Title: Re: So pathetic
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on August 30, 2019, 12:02:47 pm
idk... general rioting, while dangerous and disruptive, seems less bad than targeting specific individuals of a country you don't like (only because they are from that country)
Yeah, North American sports riots tend to resemble a college campus during Rush Week. Juvenile acts of destruction without any attempt to injure people deliberately (though plenty of injuring people through stupidity). There's also a slightly different emotion involved. They also tend to be done by the winning team.

European and South American riots almost always tend to involve groups of fans targeting other fans or players for physical violence. This can either be politically motivated, or more often, simply because you're a fan of another team.

Now that's not to say that such fan fights don't happen in North America. There have been some ugly fan fights, but those are always unorganized and usually start with heckling that escalates into a "frank exchange of views" between one specific fan and their friend and another. In those fan fights you'll see fans of both teams watching the people fight. I think the closest thing I've seen to true targeting of other team's fans for no reason by a large group of people were when one section of, I'm just guessing Eagles fans (because well, Eagles fans, and it would never snow at a Raiders game) throwing snowballs at two random fans of the other team.

But yes, it's in Europe and South America where you have to have rows of police separating fans and riots tend to break out and ultras show up and travel warnings are issued and all that jolly good stuff.

Anyways, OP's claim that this somehow would only happen in Korea is balderdash. Anyways, I doubt a group of Korean ultras will be prowling the streets of Busan. The people of Busan will be doing their normal thing and more focused on the pathetic status of the Lotte Giants than some U-18 baseball tournament.
Title: Re: So pathetic
Post by: Chinguetti on August 30, 2019, 12:15:51 pm
Even worse is that there isn't much of a platform for others to speak against it. There are many Koreans who don't agree with the boycott and would prefer diplomacy, but it's hard for them to speak out because the national fervor keeps rising.
Evidently they had platform enough to get the banners taken down in Jung-gu.

If we want a more apt comparison, I'd say Chick-fil-A back home. There is an actual serious boycott of them by many on the left. And if you have a lot of left-leaning friends, don't you dare say anything positive or post on social media that you ate there.

Of course there are people trying, but they're getting drowned out by everyone else, and their pushback is getting less and less effective.

The Chick-fil-A boycott is a closer comparison just for how divisive the participants can be, but it's still not the same since we're not dealing with the same numbers against a single business here but with an entire nation and ethnicity, and a much larger blowback. It's nowhere near the same level of seriousness, and it doesn't have the same level of implications for an entire country.

I was hoping that it would have fizzled down a little by now, but the rhetoric has only gotten louder and stronger where I am.
Title: Re: So pathetic
Post by: tylerthegloob on August 30, 2019, 12:18:09 pm
idk... general rioting, while dangerous and disruptive, seems less bad than targeting specific individuals of a country you don't like (only because they are from that country)
pathetic ... Lotte Giants

don't you dare
Title: Re: So pathetic
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on August 30, 2019, 01:18:45 pm
don't you dare
I say that as a fan.

This season it's been...it's been not good.
Title: Re: So pathetic
Post by: waygo0k on August 30, 2019, 02:01:29 pm

I explicitly stated that I wasn't referring to travel to and from their facilities.

I was talking about being out and about. The Japanese team is still going to wear its uniforms on the bus to the stadium. But not be in full regalia touring Busan. If the entire Arsenal squad decided to visit Disneyland, I doubt they'd be in full kit (unless some promotion was involved).

Also, weird you chose Arsenal at Baku considering Mkhitaryan wasn't able to join his teammates because Azerbaijan couldn't guarantee his personal safety or the team's were he to join them.

I really shouldn't do this...but I'll bite.

People have literally given you first hand experiences of themselves seeing athletes in teamwear out and about and you're still here disputing things.

Mkhitaryan couldn't go to Baku because his safety was not guaranteed anywhere in the city[/u] regardless of what he wore. This specific situation has nothing to do with sports, and was a poor example to begin with. I included the picture of the arsenal team to show players indeed do have to walk around in club wear during away games.

Moreover, their schedules are so tight that they wouldn't even have the time to 'walk around town' in such a situation. These guys literally fly in one or two days before, train, have teem meetings, rest, train some more, play the match and then fly out that very same night or early the following morning. During this time they are on the clock and do not leave the hotel (bar one or two players sneaking out)...so, again, a poor example.

Tournaments are slightly different because players have more time in the host city...and yes, they do go around town 'in full regalia'.

The Dutch national team at Auschwitz in teamwear
(http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Robin+Van+Persie+Netherlands+Team+Visit+Auschwitz+Ik9ib3XtcEGl.jpg)

The Italian national team at Auschwitz in teamwear
(http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Andrea+Pirlo+Sebastian+Giovinco+Italy+Team+jDa2Z6b-O0vl.jpg)

The french national team walking the streets of Kiev in teamwear
(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/frances-national-football-team-players-walk-in-the-streets-of-kiev-picture-id188069138)
Title: Re: So pathetic
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on August 30, 2019, 02:20:53 pm
Tournaments are slightly different because players have more time in the host city...and yes, they do go around town 'in full regalia'.
Depends on the nature of the event.

Your photos are part of a public relations event at Auschwitz. And in the first photo, the players are in blazers without any obvious club badges. These are obviously organized, high-publicity events. I'm sure if the Japanese team were to tour some museum dedicated to the occupation, there would be similar protocols. I also imagine there are serious levels of security at Auschwitz given its high-profile nature as a potential terrorist target.

As for the other photo, we don't know the context. If they were going to a public relations event or doing a tour hosted by the city, obviously that changes things.

We're also talking about pro/full-on international teams that will have a full security detail and their own personal bodyguards and entourage even. Not the same as a U-18 baseball team hopping out to Pizza Hut.

Also, for all we know, this was done at the behest of panicky parents who were afraid of their kids traveling to Korea, not on the basis of any determined threat.
Title: Re: So pathetic
Post by: waygo0k on August 30, 2019, 03:48:36 pm
The players are wearing Dutch FA attire DM, one would think it was bleeding obvious. Do you think all 30+ players randomly went out and got the exact same design shirts, cardigans, blazers and jeans themselves? Or do you think all 30+ of them coincidentally turned up wearing the exact same outfit?

And yes, these are obviously organized, high-publicity events, just like ANY visiting team at a major international event would be part of.

If the Japanese players went out during the day in Busan, you can bet your best hat there'll be some cameras and reporters following them...because they are participants in an obviously organized, high-publicity event - that pesky little tournamet they came to the country for in the first place. There may not be as many cameras and reporters as, say, the adult men's national team, but they will be there.

Another example...the Mongolian National basketball team visiting FIBA museum in Spain. Who the heck knows or cares about the Mongolian National basketball team? Yet, there they are in teamwear.

(https://montsame.mn/files/5d073e9cf2af8.jpeg)
Title: Re: So pathetic
Post by: pkjh on August 30, 2019, 05:38:54 pm
It's highly unlikely a group of Japanese athletes would get attacked. However, it only takes one moron. Can't control all 51 millions Koreans.

And if one Korean did attack someone, many of you guys will be spouting off "Koreans are this...", and "Koreans are that..."
Title: Re: So pathetic
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on August 31, 2019, 03:28:54 am
The players are wearing Dutch FA attire DM, one would think it was bleeding obvious.
If you don't know who Robin Van Persie is, you wouldn't have a clue who they were. Show that to someone who isn't a football fan and ask them who they are and where they're from and no one will have any idea.

For the non-football fans here, please show what indicates they are Dutch in the clothing they are wearing in that photo.
Quote
just like ANY visiting team at a major international event would be part of.
Are those the ONLY activities visiting athletes ever do? Organized team public relations events? Of course not.

Quote
If the Japanese players went out during the day in Busan, you can bet your best hat there'll be some cameras and reporters following them...because they are participants in an obviously organized, high-publicity event
If there wasn't the current tension, do you think anyone would give a frig about the visiting teams to a U-18 baseball tournament? Do you think there's going to be a bunch of reporters following the Taiwanese team?

Quote
There may not be as many cameras and reporters as, say, the adult men's national team, but they will be there.
There would likely be a couple local stringers and maybe, MAYYYYYBBBEEE a national sports writer if its a slow news cycle. It's a U-18 baseball event.

Quote
Who the heck knows or cares about the Mongolian National basketball team? Yet, there they are in teamwear.
Good. I can show the same thing for the Mongolian team in Korea.

Spain?
https://elpais.com/elpais/2014/12/12/inenglish/1418379310_978569.html
Or how about Italy banning away fans? You do realize that some people in some regions of Italy regard themselves as virtually being of another nation, right?
https://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/soccer/italy-bans-away-fans-of-four-clubs-in-serie-a-378080.html

Now show a Spanish team in full Castilian regalia wandering through Basque country. Or how about the Spanish national team showing up in Catalonia during the crisis last year in full Spanish monarchist regalia?
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on August 31, 2019, 02:30:02 pm
I just received a 35% warning for the title of this thread (mods changed it) as apparently "so pathetic" is viewed by them as clickbait and against the TOS of the site.

Well you could have knocked me down with a feather.

Anyhow, apologies if I came across as trying to get this thread as clickbait, not intended.

PS. I think 35% is a bit harsh for an unintentional error.
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: oglop on August 31, 2019, 05:43:45 pm
i got banned for weeks for posting a photo of some ham once, so..
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: Pattinsons on August 31, 2019, 06:39:06 pm
Lived in Honolulu for 5 years. Always see visiting student athletes in school gear with university name and sport on it around Waikiki.  Couple years ago a California baseball team was participating in an baseball tournament in Korea. They all wore their baseball gear on the plane from Hawaii.

Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: VanIslander on September 01, 2019, 01:17:06 am
American journalists were told to not mention "Canada" on the three-network non-cable news channels, just to mention the province, unless it was a negative story. And they complied.

This century is something else.

Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: JNM on September 01, 2019, 03:50:19 am
American journalists were told to not mention "Canada" on the three-network non-cable news channels, just to mention the province, unless it was a negative story. And they complied.

This century is something else.



Told by who?
Source?
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: waygo0k on September 01, 2019, 08:28:25 am
DM, nobody cares whether you can identify players from the Dutch national team or not. The key here is they are all in uniform provided by the Dutch FA.

Also, this is the second or third time you’re confusing sporting rivalries with ethnic tensions.

You realise basque players play for the Spain national team and various clubs up and down the country right? If an international competition we’re to be held in Basque Country, you can bet your best hat that the Spanish national team would be at events (with guards) in full teamwear, just like every other team partaking in the tournament would.

Yes, team functions are usually the team going to places of public interest TOGETHER..I didn’t think I had to spell that out for you.

And this is also the second or third time you’re confusing AWAY GAMES with tournament competitions.

Teams and players rarely have enough time to do anything other than train and rest during away games. I’ve mentioned this before. So you wouldn’t see them anywhere other than on the team bus, at the airport or train station, stadium and hotel.
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: NorthStar on September 01, 2019, 10:19:54 am
Korea is always butt-hurt about something...now, it is sports jerseys. 

Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on September 01, 2019, 01:06:27 pm
DM, nobody cares whether you can identify players from the Dutch national team or not. The key here is they are all in uniform provided by the Dutch FA.
That uniform doesn't identify them as Dutch. Again, please point to the part of the Uniform that identifies them as being Dutch.

Quote
Also, this is the second or third time you’re confusing sporting rivalries with ethnic tensions.
Yes, because no sporting rivalries ever involved ethnic/sectarian tensions. cough...Celtic-Rangers....cough

Quote
You realise basque players play for the Spain national team and various clubs up and down the country right?
You realize Bilbao only has players who are Basque?

Do you seriously think that if tensions were high between the Basque Region and Spain or Catalonia and Spain, and those regions held a tournament, that the Spanish National Team would be parading through the streets in full regalia? No. They would take a bus with tinted windows and be discreet.

Quote
Yes, team functions are usually the team going to places of public interest TOGETHER..I didn’t think I had to spell that out for you.
There's a difference between a high-profile national team visiting Auschwitz and a U-18 team hitting up Pizza Hut.

Quote
Teams and players rarely have enough time to do anything other than train and rest during away games. I’ve mentioned this before. So you wouldn’t see them anywhere other than on the team bus, at the airport or train station, stadium and hotel.

You do realize that we're talking baseball here, right? They don't have the same kind of training regimen as football. You don't train heavy on opposition tactics and you don't have tactics of your own. Baseball has a lot more downtime.

And for U-18 internationals, I'm not sure if they even have video tape of the opposing pitchers and hitters so they might not even have film sessions.

Korea is always butt-hurt about something...now, it is sports jerseys. 
This was the choice of the Japanese team, not Korea. They did it out of an overabundance of caution, not because of any specified threat or calls for protest.
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: NorthStar on September 01, 2019, 01:15:02 pm
Quote
Quote from: NorthStar on Today at 10:19:54 am

    Korea is always butt-hurt about something...now, it is sports jerseys.

This was the choice of the Japanese team, not Korea. They did it out of an overabundance of caution, not because of any specified threat or calls for protest.

Nevertheless...Kore a IS always butt-hurt about something....
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: waygo0k on September 01, 2019, 03:53:01 pm
DM, you’re the one that claimed teams don’t go around in their visiting kits...the Dutch team literally walked around in uniform and you’re trying to move the goal posts by claiming there’s no identifying logo.

I highly doubt you’d be able to identify the Burton Albion badge if it were sewn on those very same blazers. With or without a visible badge, it’s clearly obvious those players are part of an organisation since they’re all literally wearing identical outfits.

Again, you present another extremely poor example of two teams occupying the same city. Of course Celtic and Rangers squads go around Glasgow in team wear during official functions...both teams call the city home FFS.

Who gives a flying feck if Bilbao only has players born or raised in the Basque region? If those players end up playing for the Spanish National team, which many of them have...why wouldn’t they walk through the streets of Basque Country with their Spanish team mates in Spanish FA gear during official events?

Yes, there is a difference between a high profile national team visiting Auschwitz and an u-18 national team visiting Pizza Hut. As long as both events are official team events...both sets of squads would be in full team wear. That’s how it’s done in the majority of sports around the world.

Baseball has 100+ game seasons, where games typically last anything from 3-4hrs not including pre-game preparation.

Football typically has 50-60 game seasons, with games lasting 2hrs on average including breaks and extra time, but excluding pre-game preparation.

So in which sport would teams have a lot more down time again? Try not to pull things out of your arse this time.
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: MayorHaggar on September 01, 2019, 04:45:20 pm
Yes why would the Japanese fear overzealous Korean nationalism?

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2019/08/251_274485.html

Quote
    Police have launched a probe after a video and photos of a South Korean man allegedly threatening and beating a Japanese woman went viral on social media, they said Saturday.

    "We have found the victim and the suspect in the alleged assault case, which occurred the previous day and contacted them," an official at Seoul Mapo Police Station said.

    "We will call them in later in the day and investigate the details of the incident."

    In the video that went viral online, the man threateningly follows the woman, hurling insults. The video accompanied multiple photos of the man allegedly beating the woman.

    The woman reportedly said the man began threatening her near the university district of Hongdae in western Seoul when she ignored him as he followed her.

    Police said they began looking into the case after receiving a report that a video of a South Korean man assaulting a Japanese woman is circulating online.

    The incident took place amid escalating tensions between South Korea and Japan following Tokyo's export restrictions on South Korea in apparent retaliation against Seoul's top court rulings on wartime forced labor.
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on September 01, 2019, 06:16:07 pm
I highly doubt you’d be able to identify the Burton Albion badge if it were sewn on those very same blazers. With or without a visible badge, it’s clearly obvious those players are part of an organisation since they’re all literally wearing identical outfits.
But without any identification as to what that organization is, its nowhere near as likely to draw attention. For all the average person knows, they might all work at the same hotel or bank.

Quote
Again, you present another extremely poor example of two teams occupying the same city. Of course Celtic and Rangers squads go around Glasgow in team wear during official functions...both teams call the city home FFS.
That wasn't what the claim was. The claim was that sports rivalries =/= ethnic tensions. Often they DO involve ethnic tensions. Would Rangers be rolling through a Catholic neighborhood in full team bus and gear?

Quote
why wouldn’t they walk through the streets of Basque Country with their Spanish team mates in Spanish FA gear during official events?
Because many Basques don't see themselves as Spanish and view the Spanish government with displeasure. And that's before we get to Catalonia, which has an active secession movement that has seen mass protests and political leaders imprisoned.

Quote
As long as both events are official team events...both sets of squads would be in full team wear. That’s how it’s done in the majority of sports around the world.
And just as often they'd be dressed casually.

Quote
So in which sport would teams have a lot more down time again? Try not to pull things out of your arse this time
Again, the training for baseball is far different from football. Baseball is a game of repetitive motion and skill. It is much closer to bowling, darts, and golf in its nature. Hence why there are fat baseball players.

Football requires a much higher level of physical conditioning. It is also much more tactically focused and you can have vastly different playstyles  from match to match. A rainy day in Stoke match is going to be much different compared to playing a Top-6 side or whomever.

Baseball you do the same thing every day. You do the same thing you've been doing since 6 years old. Not much changes game to game except which pitcher you're facing and usually that is covered in film. A baseball player's skills do not change if they train for 1 hour a day vs. 4 hours. In fact, given the nature of the sport, for pitchers especially, rest and not-training are more important. You can play a game of baseball and literally never break a sweat.

This is why the 1986 New York Mets were able to go out binge drinking after every game, wake up hung over and do lines of blow and then go out and play. You couldn't do that in football if you played every day.

There's more to the equation than just "X number of games multiplied by duration of each game" to determine how much training and downtime is involved. Also U-18 tournament baseball might be far different, particularly for kids.

Why is it so hard to just admit that this kind of stuff happens in other countries to? I admit that not feeling safe has no business in sport.
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on September 01, 2019, 06:38:05 pm
Yes why would the Japanese fear overzealous Korean nationalism?
Have their been any threats made against the team? Mass protests planned?

We have this one incident, which was condemned by the public, and which, according to THE VICTIM, was not political in nature, but was instead a case of a drunken sexual harasser, turned violent.

I understand Japanese parents wanting the team to take every precaution (if nothing else, this whole trip is a liability nightmare), but let's not pretend there's some sort of mass wave of violence. If anything, I've noticed that Korean citizens are really taking care to emphasize Japanese citizens and tourists vs. the Japanese government and you hear this mentioned repeatedly.
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: waygo0k on September 01, 2019, 07:09:13 pm
DM, for pete’s sake please stop pulling random and incorrect shit from your arse and trying to pass it off as fact.

Binge drinking and drugs were and continue to be a staple diet of football players’ lives. The Man Utd team of the 1980s were notorious for their binge sessions on before and on match days.

Paul Gascoine, George Best, Wayne Rooney, Ronaldinho...all heavy drinkers who have been snapped at bars and clubs immediately before or after playing.

As for training schedules:

Once spring training camps begin, the minor league player has traveled from his home to join his teammates for a full scale effort. Players report to the complex at around 7 am.

They are provided with a healthy breakfast, and their day begins. Maybe a morning lifting session, a team stretch around 9:30 am, fundamental and skills training until 11:45.
After lunch, they play games every day at around 1 pm.

If that ends by 4 pm, they often lift and train afterwards. “It’s early mornings and it’s all day,” says King. “It’s a full day. A long day. And that’s every day. Seven days a week.”


https://ismconnect.com/inside-the-preparation-of-a-minor-league-baseball-player/

DM..please stop making up random shit to justify the things you say.

And this is just the stuff I’ve bothered to clarify.
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on September 01, 2019, 10:06:37 pm
DM, for pete’s sake please stop pulling random and incorrect shit from your arse and trying to pass it off as fact.

Binge drinking and drugs were and continue to be a staple diet of football players’ lives. The Man Utd team of the 1980s were notorious for their binge sessions on before and on match days.

Paul Gascoine, George Best, Wayne Rooney, Ronaldinho...all heavy drinkers who have been snapped at bars and clubs immediately before or after playing.

As for training schedules:

Once spring training camps begin, the minor league player has traveled from his home to join his teammates for a full scale effort. Players report to the complex at around 7 am.

They are provided with a healthy breakfast, and their day begins. Maybe a morning lifting session, a team stretch around 9:30 am, fundamental and skills training until 11:45.
After lunch, they play games every day at around 1 pm.

If that ends by 4 pm, they often lift and train afterwards. “It’s early mornings and it’s all day,” says King. “It’s a full day. A long day. And that’s every day. Seven days a week.”


https://ismconnect.com/inside-the-preparation-of-a-minor-league-baseball-player/

DM..please stop making up random shit to justify the things you say.

And this is just the stuff I’ve bothered to clarify.

Dude, you're talking Spring Training, not the regular season and the dog days of summer.

Also, I never said that football players didn't occasionally binge. Note the words "if they played every day",

You're the one trying to pretend that "tolerant" Europe is some bastion of acceptance and sporting non-violence while making Korea out to be some sort of unique evil. 
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: leaponover on September 05, 2019, 03:24:39 pm
I never thought I would read that Japan's bloody occupation of Korea is a petty issue.

I guess I'll soon learn in this forum that it's petty to show outrage at the holocaust, slavery and a myriad of horrible events that occurred.  Americans try to make other Americans feel guilty about the treatment of Native Americans, but Korea is just petty for boycotting a country that ravaged them?  So strange here....
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on September 05, 2019, 04:54:38 pm
I never thought I would read that Japan's bloody occupation of Korea is a petty issue.

I guess I'll soon learn in this forum that it's petty to show outrage at the holocaust, slavery and a myriad of horrible events that occurred.  Americans try to make other Americans feel guilty about the treatment of Native Americans, but Korea is just petty for boycotting a country that ravaged them?  So strange here....

I don't think anyone is saying what Japan did was petty.

What I would like to say it isn't right for parents to indoctrinate their children into hating Japan.  The people that did the foul deeds are dead and gone and the U18 Team is hardly responsible for the atrocities and should be treated as such.

I have said many times in the past that what Japan did wasn't limited to Korea. I cited the case of the Philippines that suffered as much if not more than Koreans did, yet they have found it in their hearts to forgive and move on and today they are great friends.

I am NOT condoning what the Japanese did, I will never do that but it's time to move on and build the future.
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: pkjh on September 05, 2019, 05:40:02 pm
I have said many times in the past that what Japan did wasn't limited to Korea. I cited the case of the Philippines that suffered as much if not more than Koreans did, yet they have found it in their hearts to forgive and move on and today they are great friends.
I'm willing to bet a few chocopies that lot of it has to do with the massive difference in economics. The Philippines needs Japan more than Japan needs the Philippines. Also, a good chunk of the history after WWII the Philippines was run by a dictator.

From that 1965 treaty until the 90s, Korea barely made a peep about Japanese atrocities. Most likely because Korea was mostly run by dictators. Now that Korea is a democracy, and much much richer they can weather the economic consequences of retaliation.
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on September 05, 2019, 06:31:41 pm
The Philippines needs Japan more than Japan needs the Philippines.

That well may be, but I can assure you that Japan makes big bucks from the Philippines. Most of the vehicles, trucks, cars and motorbikes are Japanese and most of their electronics and appliances too. So don't underestimate that.
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: leaponover on September 06, 2019, 07:27:08 pm
I never thought I would read that Japan's bloody occupation of Korea is a petty issue.

I guess I'll soon learn in this forum that it's petty to show outrage at the holocaust, slavery and a myriad of horrible events that occurred.  Americans try to make other Americans feel guilty about the treatment of Native Americans, but Korea is just petty for boycotting a country that ravaged them?  So strange here....

I don't think anyone is saying what Japan did was petty.

What I would like to say it isn't right for parents to indoctrinate their children into hating Japan.  The people that did the foul deeds are dead and gone and the U18 Team is hardly responsible for the atrocities and should be treated as such.

I have said many times in the past that what Japan did wasn't limited to Korea. I cited the case of the Philippines that suffered as much if not more than Koreans did, yet they have found it in their hearts to forgive and move on and today they are great friends.

I am NOT condoning what the Japanese did, I will never do that but it's time to move on and build the future.

I get that, but it's not that far removed.  I mean, when there are still children and grandchildren alive that were affected by it, it can still feel fresh for them.  I could see if we were talking about the past.  It's not going to disappear from the history books, and while I've been told that the history books are not 100% accurate (Whose countries are?), it's not like this is sudden news for them.
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on September 07, 2019, 07:18:28 am
I get that, but it's not that far removed.  I mean, when there are still children and grandchildren alive that were affected by it, it can still feel fresh for them.  I could see if we were talking about the past.  It's not going to disappear from the history books, and while I've been told that the history books are not 100% accurate (Whose countries are?), it's not like this is sudden news for them.

But the same applies to the Philippines and if they can find it in their hearts to forgive and move on, why can't Korea?
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: pkjh on September 07, 2019, 04:00:50 pm
I get that, but it's not that far removed.  I mean, when there are still children and grandchildren alive that were affected by it, it can still feel fresh for them.  I could see if we were talking about the past.  It's not going to disappear from the history books, and while I've been told that the history books are not 100% accurate (Whose countries are?), it's not like this is sudden news for them.

But the same applies to the Philippines and if they can find it in their hearts to forgive and move on, why can't Korea?
Japan occupied the Philippines for 3 years, compared to the 35 years of Korea.
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on September 07, 2019, 05:48:08 pm
I get that, but it's not that far removed.  I mean, when there are still children and grandchildren alive that were affected by it, it can still feel fresh for them.  I could see if we were talking about the past.  It's not going to disappear from the history books, and while I've been told that the history books are not 100% accurate (Whose countries are?), it's not like this is sudden news for them.

But the same applies to the Philippines and if they can find it in their hearts to forgive and move on, why can't Korea?
Japan occupied the Philippines for 3 years, compared to the 35 years of Korea.

Yes, but it all goes around WW2. When Japan was defeated nothing was left of Manila and many places. Anyway, it's not a comparing game, Japan did terrible things to many countries and yet, as I said the other countries chose to move on.
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: pkjh on September 07, 2019, 07:38:33 pm
I get that, but it's not that far removed.  I mean, when there are still children and grandchildren alive that were affected by it, it can still feel fresh for them.  I could see if we were talking about the past.  It's not going to disappear from the history books, and while I've been told that the history books are not 100% accurate (Whose countries are?), it's not like this is sudden news for them.

But the same applies to the Philippines and if they can find it in their hearts to forgive and move on, why can't Korea?
Japan occupied the Philippines for 3 years, compared to the 35 years of Korea.

Yes, but it all goes around WW2. When Japan was defeated nothing was left of Manila and many places. Anyway, it's not a comparing game, Japan did terrible things to many countries and yet, as I said the other countries chose to move on.
Huge difference of what they can do socially, culturally... in 35 years, as compared to 3.
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: leaponover on September 09, 2019, 01:27:57 pm
I get that, but it's not that far removed.  I mean, when there are still children and grandchildren alive that were affected by it, it can still feel fresh for them.  I could see if we were talking about the past.  It's not going to disappear from the history books, and while I've been told that the history books are not 100% accurate (Whose countries are?), it's not like this is sudden news for them.

But the same applies to the Philippines and if they can find it in their hearts to forgive and move on, why can't Korea?
Japan occupied the Philippines for 3 years, compared to the 35 years of Korea.

Yes, but it all goes around WW2. When Japan was defeated nothing was left of Manila and many places. Anyway, it's not a comparing game, Japan did terrible things to many countries and yet, as I said the other countries chose to move on.

It is a comparison game.  Are you going to forgive your girlfriend for sleeping with your best friend, maybe.  Are you going to forgive her for sleeping with all of your friends?  You can't eliminate the level of grievances to suit your argument.
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: zola on September 09, 2019, 02:01:43 pm
I get that, but it's not that far removed.  I mean, when there are still children and grandchildren alive that were affected by it, it can still feel fresh for them.  I could see if we were talking about the past.  It's not going to disappear from the history books, and while I've been told that the history books are not 100% accurate (Whose countries are?), it's not like this is sudden news for them.

But the same applies to the Philippines and if they can find it in their hearts to forgive and move on, why can't Korea?
Japan occupied the Philippines for 3 years, compared to the 35 years of Korea.

Yes, but it all goes around WW2. When Japan was defeated nothing was left of Manila and many places. Anyway, it's not a comparing game, Japan did terrible things to many countries and yet, as I said the other countries chose to move on.

It is a comparison game.  Are you going to forgive your girlfriend for sleeping with your best friend, maybe.  Are you going to forgive her for sleeping with all of your friends?  You can't eliminate the level of grievances to suit your argument.
Yes, but if you are going to play that comparison game, you will find that Korea is way down the list when compared to other similar historical atrocities. Even looking at victims of Imperial Japan the only thing that marks Korea out is the relative longer length (35 years) of colonial occupation. Indochina, Dutch East Indies, Philippines had similar or greater deaths related to the Japanese within a 3 year period. Yet the grievance industry isn't part of the national consciousness like it is here. There indignation doesn't match the situation when compared to other countries.

This, for me, has always been the crux of the rampant victim mentality in Korea. Yes, Japan did absolutely heinous shit. But pick a country at random on the map and you will be able to find terrible shit that happened to them, or a group of them also. Often many magnitudes worse that what happened in Korea. Korea's have created this national narrative that they are a nation of victims. Someone posted a lecture once, here or reddit or somewhere, and the historian outlined that in fact Korea when compared to kingdoms, states, countries throughout history, Korea in all it's forms, had actually enjoyed longer periods of peace and sovereignty then other comparable places.

I lived in Ireland for a 2 years as that's where my dad is from and I've been back a bunch of times. I used to think the Irish were bad when it came to the "poor us" thing. They have absolutely nothing on Korea. You could go months in Ireland without someone bringing up the British. And there isn't the propaganda being rammed down your throat. The Irish were under British subjugation for hundreds of years, used as literal slaves. lost millions, had there culture systematically suppressed and for all intents and purposes had their language wiped out. If we are going to compare, why are the Irish able to handle it better than the Koreans??
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: L I on September 09, 2019, 02:15:05 pm
Are you going to forgive your girlfriend for sleeping with your best friend, maybe.  Are you going to forgive her for sleeping with all of your friends?

Which is worse-  gf cheated on you... OR ... was faithful but a great great great grandmother she never met who passed away 75 years ago cheated a lot? And she didn't even apologize for the the actions of that woman. The nerve of her!
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: leaponover on September 11, 2019, 01:56:00 pm
Are you going to forgive your girlfriend for sleeping with your best friend, maybe.  Are you going to forgive her for sleeping with all of your friends?

Which is worse-  gf cheated on you... OR ... was faithful but a great great great grandmother she never met who passed away 75 years ago cheated a lot? And she didn't even apologize for the the actions of that woman. The nerve of her!

Yeah,  think you just proved we can put an end to the analogies.....
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: L I on September 11, 2019, 03:06:52 pm
Best not to credit or blame people for the actions of others.

Identity politics are lame.
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: L I on September 11, 2019, 03:10:28 pm
Each person is an individual and thus should be judged by their own accomplishments, character, etc ... not skin color, ethnicity, location of birth, etc.
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: leaponover on September 11, 2019, 06:00:42 pm
I get that, but it's not that far removed.  I mean, when there are still children and grandchildren alive that were affected by it, it can still feel fresh for them.  I could see if we were talking about the past.  It's not going to disappear from the history books, and while I've been told that the history books are not 100% accurate (Whose countries are?), it's not like this is sudden news for them.

But the same applies to the Philippines and if they can find it in their hearts to forgive and move on, why can't Korea?
Japan occupied the Philippines for 3 years, compared to the 35 years of Korea.

Yes, but it all goes around WW2. When Japan was defeated nothing was left of Manila and many places. Anyway, it's not a comparing game, Japan did terrible things to many countries and yet, as I said the other countries chose to move on.

It is a comparison game.  Are you going to forgive your girlfriend for sleeping with your best friend, maybe.  Are you going to forgive her for sleeping with all of your friends?  You can't eliminate the level of grievances to suit your argument.
Yes, but if you are going to play that comparison game, you will find that Korea is way down the list when compared to other similar historical atrocities. Even looking at victims of Imperial Japan the only thing that marks Korea out is the relative longer length (35 years) of colonial occupation. Indochina, Dutch East Indies, Philippines had similar or greater deaths related to the Japanese within a 3 year period. Yet the grievance industry isn't part of the national consciousness like it is here. There indignation doesn't match the situation when compared to other countries.

This, for me, has always been the crux of the rampant victim mentality in Korea. Yes, Japan did absolutely heinous shit. But pick a country at random on the map and you will be able to find terrible shit that happened to them, or a group of them also. Often many magnitudes worse that what happened in Korea. Korea's have created this national narrative that they are a nation of victims. Someone posted a lecture once, here or reddit or somewhere, and the historian outlined that in fact Korea when compared to kingdoms, states, countries throughout history, Korea in all it's forms, had actually enjoyed longer periods of peace and sovereignty then other comparable places.

I lived in Ireland for a 2 years as that's where my dad is from and I've been back a bunch of times. I used to think the Irish were bad when it came to the "poor us" thing. They have absolutely nothing on Korea. You could go months in Ireland without someone bringing up the British. And there isn't the propaganda being rammed down your throat. The Irish were under British subjugation for hundreds of years, used as literal slaves. lost millions, had there culture systematically suppressed and for all intents and purposes had their language wiped out. If we are going to compare, why are the Irish able to handle it better than the Koreans??

You are confusing me.  You can only paint a national narrative of being victims if you aren't a victim.  They actually are.  Now how much they are milking it, I don't know.  But I think everyone is in agreement here they are victims.  There's nothing that needs to be painted about it.  It's fact.

I don't even think that's what Koreans are upset about.   At least that's not the way my wife explains it to me.  She tells me that Koreans are upset because they kidnapped and enslaved many of the best architects, poets and philosophers from Korea and used the women as sex slaves.  Japan has made general apologies, but when it comes to actually making reparations to those families and acknowledging those actual atrocities, Japan doesn't really follow through with the promises.  Instead they balk on them and then do something passive aggressive to battle it like putting Japanese flags on Dokdo or removing Korea from safe export lists.  It's like that apology you give someone because you think they want to hear it, but their actions say otherwise.

I'm not saying there's no pettiness to it at all, and maybe countries shouldn't engage the way two people do.  However, I leave you with this question.  If I'm a country that's currently thriving and has no need for any economic advantage, and I ravaged your land for 35 years, would I still be arguing about a tiny island that means very little in the grand scheme of things and my own scholars have already traced back to not belonging to me?  To me, those are not apologetic actions.
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: kyndo on October 02, 2019, 12:07:19 pm
  Japan has made general apologies, but when it comes to actually making reparations to those families and acknowledging those actual atrocities, Japan doesn't really follow through with the promises.
Back in '65 Japan paid over 2 billion USD (current value) to the South Korean goverment in reparation for the comfort women they took during the war. True, those women never saw a dime of it (unless... does Posco mint 100 won coins?), but that wasn't exactly Japan's fault.

 
Instead they balk on them and then do something passive aggressive to battle it like putting Japanese flags on Dokdo
      I haven't read about  Japan putting its flag on Dokdo... but I have heard of Korea putting Dokdo on its flag (https://www.dezeen.com/2018/02/06/korean-unification-flag-japan-protests/).

or removing Korea from safe export lists.
     ...which in turn was a response to the Korean government seizing the assets of privately owned Japanese companies operating in the country and so on.
    An eye for an eye benefits nobody. Well, except China...

If I'm a country that's currently thriving and has no need for any economic advantage, and I ravaged your land for 35 years, would I still be arguing about a tiny island that means very little in the grand scheme of things and my own scholars have already traced back to not belonging to me? 
    Cherry picking just a tiny bit, but okay...
    Also, while the Japanese were undeniably bad news to the people and the culture, they certainly didn't ravage the country: infrastructure, education, economy and the social structure all greatly benefitted from it.

It's like that apology you give someone because you think they want to hear it, but their actions say otherwise.
    I totally agree here.
    Abe could've buried the hatchet years ago if he just hadn't been such a huge wanker. It's sad when such a tiny majority (the ultra-conservatives) work so incredibly hard to essentially ruin international relationships for the entire country.
   How about just apologizing without the face-saving political double talk afterwards? >:(


    I generally am far more sympathetic to Korea's side of things than I am to Japan's (Imperial Japan was pretty messed up. Good riddance!), but I feel that presenting things from a purely one sided perspective isn't at all helpfull. History is complicated, nuanced, and nearly always a mess of greys. Painting it black and white is dishonest, and, I feel, disrespectful.

Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: leaponover on October 02, 2019, 07:06:22 pm
  Japan has made general apologies, but when it comes to actually making reparations to those families and acknowledging those actual atrocities, Japan doesn't really follow through with the promises.
Back in '65 Japan paid over 2 billion USD (current value) to the South Korean goverment in reparation for the comfort women they took during the war. True, those women never saw a dime of it (unless... does Posco mint 100 won coins?), but that wasn't exactly Japan's fault.

 
Instead they balk on them and then do something passive aggressive to battle it like putting Japanese flags on Dokdo
      I haven't read about  Japan putting its flag on Dokdo... but I have heard of Korea putting Dokdo on its flag (https://www.dezeen.com/2018/02/06/korean-unification-flag-japan-protests/).

or removing Korea from safe export lists.
     ...which in turn was a response to the Korean government seizing the assets of privately owned Japanese companies operating in the country and so on.
    An eye for an eye benefits nobody. Well, except China...

If I'm a country that's currently thriving and has no need for any economic advantage, and I ravaged your land for 35 years, would I still be arguing about a tiny island that means very little in the grand scheme of things and my own scholars have already traced back to not belonging to me? 
    Cherry picking just a tiny bit, but okay...
    Also, while the Japanese were undeniably bad news to the people and the culture, they certainly didn't ravage the country: infrastructure, education, economy and the social structure all greatly benefitted from it.

It's like that apology you give someone because you think they want to hear it, but their actions say otherwise.
    I totally agree here.
    Abe could've buried the hatchet years ago if he just hadn't been such a huge wanker. It's sad when such a tiny majority (the ultra-conservatives) work so incredibly hard to essentially ruin international relationships for the entire country.
   How about just apologizing without the face-saving political double talk afterwards? >:(


    I generally am far more sympathetic to Korea's side of things than I am to Japan's (Imperial Japan was pretty messed up. Good riddance!), but I feel that presenting things from a purely one sided perspective isn't at all helpfull. History is complicated, nuanced, and nearly always a mess of greys. Painting it black and white is dishonest, and, I feel, disrespectful.



I agree with your last paragraph as well.  History is definitely not black and white and it's my fault for painting that way in response to folks painting it that way on posts prior to mine.  I shouldn't have stooped to that level.

Where did you get that  2 billion figure from?  I only found reparations from the war treaties that were signed.  I never saw any 2 billion in there?  Maybe you are prorating it to its modern value?

I still think it's perfectly reasonable for Korean people to have national pride and hit a country financially for their indifference to warmongering.  Hell, people do it to the US.  You've got so many treehuggers crying about the environment, but nobody stops buying Chinese products, and then they want to go teach there.  They are the biggest culprits of damage to the planet, but they just get a free pass, because, well it's China yo!  People can only talk with their wallets, and to have national unity like that is inspiring.
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: kyndo on October 02, 2019, 09:58:06 pm
I agree with your last paragraph as well.  History is definitely not black and white and it's my fault for painting that way in response to folks painting it that way on posts prior to mine.  I shouldn't have stooped to that level.

Where did you get that  2 billion figure from?  I only found reparations from the war treaties that were signed.  I never saw any 2 billion in there?  Maybe you are prorating it to its modern value?

I still think it's perfectly reasonable for Korean people to have national pride and hit a country financially for their indifference to warmongering.  Hell, people do it to the US.  You've got so many treehuggers crying about the environment, but nobody stops buying Chinese products, and then they want to go teach there.  They are the biggest culprits of damage to the planet, but they just get a free pass, because, well it's China yo!  People can only talk with their wallets, and to have national unity like that is inspiring.

Oh, yeah, I'm prorating that, which is what I was trying to point out with the "current value" bit. Sorry if it wasn't clear. The total paid was 800 million in 1965 USD.

    What I find troublesome is that the Korean government targeted private companies, and essentially seized their assets some 75 years after the end of the war. Why now and not a long time ago? You know, when the comfort women and the victims of the forced labour were still around to benefit from the seizure.
    Without having any details of the decision processes behind this action, it seems to me to have come entirely out of the blue... and that makes me suspect ulterior motives. Can't trust them politicos.
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: LIC on October 03, 2019, 10:58:49 am
After 9/11, France did not support the American military and gov't plan to bomb Iraq, calling it a grab for oil, not a genuine attack against WMDs.

U.S. right wingers spoke of changing "French fries" (a Belgian creation) to "freedom fries".

The American right wing, Republican anger toward France and all things French was PATHETIC!

Just saying...

I remember this very well. As an aside, when was the last time you heard an American say anything nice about France or French people?

How many Americans realize their great symbol of freedom and welcome, the Statue of Liberty, was a gift from France?

I'm guessing very very few. If it became common knowledge they'd probably tear that down too.
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: L I on October 03, 2019, 12:28:58 pm
I remember this very well. As an aside, when was the last time you heard an American say anything nice about France or French people?

How many Americans realize their great symbol of freedom and welcome, the Statue of Liberty, was a gift from France?

I'm guessing very very few. If it became common knowledge they'd probably tear that down too.

Not surprising coming from a Canadian.

When was the last time you heard a Canadian say anything nice about America or American people?

When's the last time you heard a French person say anything nice about America or American people?

Tribalism is stupid.

Bashing America is stupid.

Some kind of inferiority complex related to the USA developed in those two countries in particular- France and Canada.

Human nature is flawed. People are jealous and envious and engage in identity politics to varying degrees.

I'm well aware the statue of Liberty came from France; I think most Americans are.
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: NorthStar on October 03, 2019, 06:27:12 pm
Quote
Not surprising coming from a Canadian


...not at all. 

Unfortunately, I"m not sure the soy boys, ,feminists and safe-space generation has  a clue about anything...much less the fact the Statue of Liberty was a gift from France...or, that France was just as much responsible for America's victory for in the Revolutionary War, as George Washington. 

But, I wonder if the young generation in France knows about their own history.  I recall in an excellent political theory class, we had a French exchange student who huffed and puffed when we covered the French Revolution...she made a subtle scene and understandably so. 

Personally, I don't hold a grudge against the French.  Well...perhaps I've been lucky but I've come across only the nicest folks from there.  Then again, I have do doubt that France carries the type of person stereotypes love to attach themselves on. 

Canadians....I always hear crap from them and out of all the foreigners I have met in Korea (and beyond), Canada has represented the highest number of pricks..thus far. 
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: Mr C on October 03, 2019, 08:41:09 pm
Quote
Not surprising coming from a Canadian


...not at all. 

Unfortunately, I"m not sure the soy boys, ,feminists and safe-space generation has  a clue about anything...much less the fact the Statue of Liberty was a gift from France...or, that France was just as much responsible for America's victory for in the Revolutionary War, as George Washington.   

Is … is this a parody account?

It's a reasonable assumption that by soy boys, feminists, etc, you are referring to those on the liberal/moderate end of the spectrum.  Whereas, the "Freedom Fries" brigade was composed of the right wing in the US.  Bob Ney was the spearhead of this movement, and was later convicted in the Abramoff scandal and spent time in the hoosegow. Um, who doesn't have a clue? (Excellent political theory class, indeed.)

I can assure you I know a considerable amount about the Revolutionary War and about Liberty Enlightening the World, including the fact that in addition to its sculptor being Frederic Bartholdi, the inner support structure was designed by Gustave Eiffel.  Joseph Pulitzer's New York World newspaper ran what we would call a crowdfunding campaign to raise money for the plinth for it to stand on.

Despite that added height, immigrants coming into NY harbor from Europe would see a 12 story elephant-shaped hotel on Coney Island, before seeing Lady Liberty--probably a source of confusion for some folks …

Before it burned down at the turn of the century, the elephant had gained a sordid reputation (along with Coney Island) and "going to see the elephant" was a slang term for visiting a prostitute. 

You've learned something today, you're welcome.
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: NorthStar on October 04, 2019, 06:51:06 am
Quote
Not surprising coming from a Canadian


...not at all. 

Unfortunately, I"m not sure the soy boys, ,feminists and safe-space generation has  a clue about anything...much less the fact the Statue of Liberty was a gift from France...or, that France was just as much responsible for America's victory for in the Revolutionary War, as George Washington.   

Is … is this a parody account?

It's a reasonable assumption that by soy boys, feminists, etc, you are referring to those on the liberal/moderate end of the spectrum.  Whereas, the "Freedom Fries" brigade was composed of the right wing in the US.  Bob Ney was the spearhead of this movement, and was later convicted in the Abramoff scandal and spent time in the hoosegow. Um, who doesn't have a clue? (Excellent political theory class, indeed.)

I can assure you I know a considerable amount about the Revolutionary War and about Liberty Enlightening the World, including the fact that in addition to its sculptor being Frederic Bartholdi, the inner support structure was designed by Gustave Eiffel.  Joseph Pulitzer's New York World newspaper ran what we would call a crowdfunding campaign to raise money for the plinth for it to stand on.

Despite that added height, immigrants coming into NY harbor from Europe would see a 12 story elephant-shaped hotel on Coney Island, before seeing Lady Liberty--probably a source of confusion for some folks …

Before it burned down at the turn of the century, the elephant had gained a sordid reputation (along with Coney Island) and "going to see the elephant" was a slang term for visiting a prostitute. 

You've learned something today, you're welcome.

..pat yourself on the back. then.
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: LIC on October 10, 2019, 01:10:24 pm
I remember this very well. As an aside, when was the last time you heard an American say anything nice about France or French people?

How many Americans realize their great symbol of freedom and welcome, the Statue of Liberty, was a gift from France?

I'm guessing very very few. If it became common knowledge they'd probably tear that down too.

Not surprising coming from a Canadian.

When was the last time you heard a Canadian say anything nice about America or American people?

When's the last time you heard a French person say anything nice about America or American people?

Tribalism is stupid.

Bashing America is stupid.

Some kind of inferiority complex related to the USA developed in those two countries in particular- France and Canada.

Human nature is flawed. People are jealous and envious and engage in identity politics to varying degrees.

I'm well aware the statue of Liberty came from France; I think most Americans are.


Most Americans???

I'd would comfortably bet my eyesight you are absolutely wrong about this.

Here's another: How many New Englanders in general or Bostonians in particular know the 100 foot Christmas tree that's put up in Boston every year is a gift from the people of Nova Scotia to say thank you  for their incredible help and kindness in the aftermath of the Great Halifax Explosion - the largest man-made explosion ever until the yanks dropped the bomb on Hiroshima.

Yeah....ya didn't know that did ya?
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: zola on October 10, 2019, 01:20:53 pm
I'm not American and I know that the Statue of Liberty was a French gift. I'm pretty sure I remember it was part of the story in "An American Tail". The French pigeon.

Regardless, from reading his posts over the pat few months i think its pretty clear LIC is detached from reality.
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: tylerthegloob on October 10, 2019, 01:30:05 pm
Most Americans???

I'd would comfortably bet my eyesight you are absolutely wrong about this.

Here's another: How many New Englanders in general or Bostonians in particular know the 100 foot Christmas tree that's put up in Boston every year is a gift from the people of Nova Scotia to say thank you  for their incredible help and kindness in the aftermath of the Great Halifax Explosion - the largest man-made explosion ever until the yanks dropped the bomb on Hiroshima.

Yeah....ya didn't know that did ya?

most of us know the tree comes from nova scotia. they mention it on the news repeatedly almost every year. we also know the statue of liberty was from france. if you're not already blind from that shitty bet, do yourself a favor and quit while you're ahead
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: JNM on October 10, 2019, 02:28:39 pm
Most Americans???

I'd would comfortably bet my eyesight you are absolutely wrong about this.

Here's another: How many New Englanders in general or Bostonians in particular know the 100 foot Christmas tree that's put up in Boston every year is a gift from the people of Nova Scotia to say thank you  for their incredible help and kindness in the aftermath of the Great Halifax Explosion - the largest man-made explosion ever until the yanks dropped the bomb on Hiroshima.

Yeah....ya didn't know that did ya?

most of us know the tree comes from nova scotia. they mention it on the news repeatedly almost every year. we also know the statue of liberty was from france. if you're not already blind from that shitty bet, do yourself a favor and quit while you're ahead

Yeah. The thing about official gifts is they get talked about. That’s the point.

The tulips in Ottawa... yeah, the Netherlands gave them to Canada for help during WW2.  Anybody who has been to Ottawa during the tulip festival knows this!

I hope you got a chance to see them before the blindness kicks in!

Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: confusedsafferinkorea on October 10, 2019, 06:57:08 pm
This thread has been completely derailed.    >:(
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: tylerthegloob on October 11, 2019, 07:39:37 am
This thread has been completely derailed.    >:(

ah, you must be new here... you'll get used to it
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: leaponover on October 11, 2019, 04:12:00 pm
After 9/11, France did not support the American military and gov't plan to bomb Iraq, calling it a grab for oil, not a genuine attack against WMDs.

U.S. right wingers spoke of changing "French fries" (a Belgian creation) to "freedom fries".

The American right wing, Republican anger toward France and all things French was PATHETIC!

Just saying...

I remember this very well. As an aside, when was the last time you heard an American say anything nice about France or French people?

How many Americans realize their great symbol of freedom and welcome, the Statue of Liberty, was a gift from France?

I'm guessing very very few. If it became common knowledge they'd probably tear that down too.

I'd say 95% of people over 40 will know the Statue of Liberty was a gift from France.  That's a fairly large percent of the population.
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: JNM on October 11, 2019, 05:13:57 pm
To be fair, in hindsight invading Iraq was a bad idea for everyone except Halliburton shareholders.
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: L I on October 11, 2019, 06:45:57 pm
37 million Iraqis can now live free in a democracy rather than under a brutal dictator.
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: kyndo on October 14, 2019, 08:45:43 am
37 million Iraqis can now live free in a democracy rather than under a brutal dictator.
    Since the execution of Saddam Hussein, 37 million Iraqis can live in a free democracy with civil war, constant violent insurgencies, the encroachment of ISIS, the Yazidis genocide, serious political and economic instability, and the possible fragmentation into 3 or 4 separate states that all hate each other.
       Hussein was not great for his country, but don't pretend that what the area is currently going through is any better.
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: L I on October 14, 2019, 05:22:09 pm
It's better now, and it will be better in the future.

GDP tripled. Inflation went down. Living standards are improving.

I'm from Canada

What a surprise.
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: L I on October 14, 2019, 05:27:36 pm
Canada

I'm utterly shocked. Couldn't have predicted that.
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: kyndo on October 15, 2019, 08:42:22 am
It's better now, and it will be better in the future.

GDP tripled. Inflation went down. Living standards are improving.

I'm from Canada

What a surprise.
    How so?
    Because I a pointed out that an extremely controversial war was, in fact, not wholly beneficial?  :shocked:

   And anyway, I'm kind of a fake Canadian. Only got my citizenship a month or two before coming to Korea.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 15, 2019, 09:27:13 am
37 million Iraqis can now live free in a democracy rather than under a brutal dictator.
Was it worth the cost? Maybe. It did lead to the Arab Spring. It also led to ISIS and the Syrian Civil War and the strengthening of Iran.
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: LIC on October 15, 2019, 12:47:44 pm
I've been to the USA 100's of times to 39 states. I've talked to 1000's of people about the statue and the tree. My eyesight is solidly in place. Americans know less about their own country than most of the rest of the western world knows about it.

I am Canadian!
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 15, 2019, 01:17:29 pm
Have we rebuilt that thing since the aliens knocked it down on July 4th 1996, or did they build a mosque over it?
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: kyndo on October 15, 2019, 01:24:34 pm
Have we rebuilt that thing since the aliens knocked it down on July 4th 1996, or did they build a mosque over it?

What, you mean the White House?
Hate to break it to you, but...

(https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/images/thursday/pkrayzqdwh5zmdyl5d8cc3eaa5588.jpg) --> (https://archive.nerdist.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Indpendence-Day.jpg) --> (http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/75000/White-House-Mosque-75400.jpg)
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: tylerthegloob on October 15, 2019, 02:15:04 pm
I've been to the USA 100's of times to 39 states. I've talked to 1000's of people about the statue and the tree. My eyesight is solidly in place. Americans know less about their own country than most of the rest of the western world knows about it.

I am Canadian!

you've quizzed thousands of people about the origins of the statue of liberty and the boston christmas tree? dude get a ****** life
Title: Re: Japan U-18 national baseball team told not to wear uniforms on S. Korea streets
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on October 15, 2019, 02:49:35 pm
Have we rebuilt that thing since the aliens knocked it down on July 4th 1996, or did they build a mosque over it?

What, you mean the White House?
Hate to break it to you, but...

(https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/images/thursday/pkrayzqdwh5zmdyl5d8cc3eaa5588.jpg) --> (https://archive.nerdist.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Indpendence-Day.jpg) --> (http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/75000/White-House-Mosque-75400.jpg)

OMG. They were right- he really is a Muslim. Thanks Morgan Freeman!