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Career Venue => Contract, and Job Related Issues => Topic started by: blade2001 on August 21, 2019, 05:35:25 pm

Title: Slave contract?
Post by: blade2001 on August 21, 2019, 05:35:25 pm
A private academy I recently interviewed with just sent me their contract.
Rather than post the whole thing I just thought I would show some parts which to me seem like red flags,
are these common for hagwan jobs?

Contract sticky points:


The contract mentioned nothing about pension. As far as I know, being held in the building during lunch break is in breach of LSA.
The 10km radius would mean not being able to work in Seoul metro area ever again after completing the contract.
Title: Re: Slave contract?
Post by: Cohort 2019 on August 21, 2019, 11:22:11 pm
You should reconsider whether you're really ready to take care of tiny toddlers running around the room, whilst periodically sticking their fingers up your bumhole.
Oh, your account is from 2018... so you must know what you're signing up for...

Then, you should have a cold one and throw this contract away where it belongs: up your recruiter's bumhole.

Check the other thread and call those places up and see if they're hiring.
https://www.waygook.org/index.php?topic=118134
Title: Re: Slave contract?
Post by: Ronnie Omelettes on August 22, 2019, 06:58:23 am
A private academy I recently interviewed with just sent me their contract.
Rather than post the whole thing I just thought I would show some parts which to me seem like red flags,
are these common for hagwan jobs?

Contract sticky points:

  • The Employee agrees not to work for another institute located within 10km radius from the establishment location of the Employer even after completion of the contract, unless permitted by the Employer.

    During lunch time, and snack time, teachers will eat lunch and snack with the kids. Teachers can't eat lunch outside, because the kids are too young, so teachers will help kids during snack and lunch time.

    During the term of Agreement, the Employee will be required to accomplish the assigned duties for 30 clock hours (30 teaching hours) each week. (one month 120 hours). Teaching hours are: Monday, Wednesday, Friday 9:30AM-7:00PM; Tuesday, Thursday 9:30AM - 6:00PM.( The teacher must have adequately prepared for the classes in advance.)

    Each teaching hour in excess of 30 hours a week is considered as overtime. (1 overtime clock-hour, 18,000 won)
    In order to maintain the quality of lessons one hour of preparation time prior to classes each day is required from the Employee. This preparation time is not included in the calculation of any overtime hours, which the employee may be required to work. The Employee is required to attend in a staff meeting a week.

The contract mentioned nothing about pension. As far as I know, being held in the building during lunch break is in breach of LSA.
The 10km radius would mean not being able to work in Seoul metro area ever again after completing the contract.

1st:  Once your contract is finished.  You're done.  They cannot under any circumstances dictate where you go or where you don't go.  Like some contracts mention you have to leave the country after you finish the contract.  They can't do that.  Once the contract is completed you do what you want. 

2nd:  Having lunch with kids will be fun for a week and then you'll hate it.  You'd have to get a definite schedule to see if that is even legal.  For every four hours worked, per Labour Law, you get a thirty-minute break to do what you want.  Preparing for classes in a teaching hour is NOT this.  So if you're expected to eat lunch with the tots, that is not being able to do what you want.  You're still working.  I'm pretty sure I've reviewed this contract before a while back and I'm pretty sure most of it stank.

3rd:  If there is no pension then there is no NHIC health insurance as they are both linked.  You cannot have one without the other.

Like I said, these bits ring a bell from a while back and I'm sure it was a crap-shoot of a school. 
Title: Re: Slave contract?
Post by: bb459 on August 22, 2019, 07:47:31 am
Slaves didn't have a contract.
No contract offered on here is as bad as slavery.
Please use a different analogy.
Title: Re: Slave contract?
Post by: stoat on August 22, 2019, 08:15:26 am
Slaves didn't have a contract.
No contract offered on here is as bad as slavery.
Please use a different analogy.

Slaves don't have a contract. There are more people in slavery now than ever in human history. Just because they're not black isn't a reason to exclude them from your virtue signalling.

https://www.freetheslaves.net/our-model-for-freedom/slavery-today/
Title: Re: Slave contract?
Post by: bb459 on August 22, 2019, 08:19:45 am
Slaves didn't have a contract.
No contract offered on here is as bad as slavery.
Please use a different analogy.

Slaves don't have a contract. There are more people in slavery now than ever in human history. Just because they're not black isn't a reason to exclude them from your virtue signalling.

https://www.freetheslaves.net/our-model-for-freedom/slavery-today/

No virtue signaling.
Also didnt say slaves were only black.
And I agree modern-day slavery is very real.

However, getting paid to do a job with a crappy contract, is just that. Getting paid to do a job with a terrible contract.
It is not slavery.
Title: Re: Slave contract?
Post by: plan b on August 22, 2019, 08:30:56 am
Slaves didn't have a contract.
No contract offered on here is as bad as slavery.
Please use a different analogy.

It's just a way of speaking...lighten up
Title: Re: Slave contract?
Post by: bb459 on August 22, 2019, 08:34:39 am
Slaves didn't have a contract.
No contract offered on here is as bad as slavery.
Please use a different analogy.

It's just a way of speaking...lighten up


No thank you.
If someone made insensitive jokes about you, your family, ethnicity, spouse, children, etc.
You wouldn't like it. Our words are powerful.
Race jokes, rape jokes, homophobic jokes...people always say "It's just a way of speaking/a joke, lighten up" - and then people are murdered.
Because kids and other people grow up with those jokes, don't know the difference, and actually believe the nonsense.

I'm not going back and forth with yall all day on this.
But I'll always be here to call out the nonsense.
Just try to use a different analogy. It's not that hard and doesn't negatively affect you in any way.







Title: Re: Slave contract?
Post by: plan b on August 22, 2019, 09:05:11 am
Slaves didn't have a contract.
No contract offered on here is as bad as slavery.
Please use a different analogy.

It's just a way of speaking...lighten up


No thank you.
If someone made insensitive jokes about you, your family, ethnicity, spouse, children, etc.
You wouldn't like it. Our words are powerful.
Race jokes, rape jokes, homophobic jokes...people always say "It's just a way of speaking/a joke, lighten up" - and then people are murdered.
Because kids and other people grow up with those jokes, don't know the difference, and actually believe the nonsense.

I'm not going back and forth with yall all day on this.
But I'll always be here to call out the nonsense.
Just try to use a different analogy. It's not that hard and doesn't negatively affect you in any way.



Are you really that sensitive? Have you never heard of terms like "wage slave", or "I'm a slave to my job."? The OP is looking for feedback on a bad contract, and you are mentioning rape jokes, and homophobic jokes, and murder??!? Talk about going overboard. You are not the language police, please keep that in mind.
Title: Re: Slave contract?
Post by: bb459 on August 22, 2019, 09:27:50 am
Slaves didn't have a contract.
No contract offered on here is as bad as slavery.
Please use a different analogy.

It's just a way of speaking...lighten up


No thank you.
If someone made insensitive jokes about you, your family, ethnicity, spouse, children, etc.
You wouldn't like it. Our words are powerful.
Race jokes, rape jokes, homophobic jokes...people always say "It's just a way of speaking/a joke, lighten up" - and then people are murdered.
Because kids and other people grow up with those jokes, don't know the difference, and actually believe the nonsense.

I'm not going back and forth with yall all day on this.
But I'll always be here to call out the nonsense.
Just try to use a different analogy. It's not that hard and doesn't negatively affect you in any way.



Are you really that sensitive? Have you never heard of terms like "wage slave", or "I'm a slave to my job."? The OP is looking for feedback on a bad contract, and you are mentioning rape jokes, and homophobic jokes, and murder??!? Talk about going overboard. You are not the language police, please keep that in mind.

Yes. them existing and me hearing about them doesn't make them okay...lol
people have been saying lots of things for a long time that aren't okay.
like when I worked on the airplane and the people who had seats in the last row would say
"back of the bus" jokes...they say it all the time. for decades. doesn't make it okay.

"im a slave to my job" and "slave wages" are also not okay.
you have a job. you're getting paid. you aren't being tortured or split up from your families.
it still isn't slavery
Title: Re: Slave contract?
Post by: Kayos on August 22, 2019, 09:31:12 am
Slaves didn't have a contract.
No contract offered on here is as bad as slavery.
Please use a different analogy.

It's just a way of speaking...lighten up


No thank you.
If someone made insensitive jokes about you, your family, ethnicity, spouse, children, etc.
You wouldn't like it. Our words are powerful.
Race jokes, rape jokes, homophobic jokes...people always say "It's just a way of speaking/a joke, lighten up" - and then people are murdered.
Because kids and other people grow up with those jokes, don't know the difference, and actually believe the nonsense.

I'm not going back and forth with yall all day on this.
But I'll always be here to call out the nonsense.
Just try to use a different analogy. It's not that hard and doesn't negatively affect you in any way.

I make insensitive jokes towards myself, family, and friends all the time (especially towards my mum, because she is a super serious person who hates fun and jokes).
And they make them towards me too. It's not that big of a deal. Race, rape, and homophobic jokes, it depends on the 'joke.' If they say something that is actually hurtful or something, and say it's a joke - that isn't really a joke, and they are a horrible person;
Like, when NZ legalized gay marriage. My message to my LGBT+ friends/family was: Thanks for not being 'gay' tonight NZ, and congrats the LGBT community who can now get married! (As in NZ, we sometimes use 'gay' to reference someone acting like a dick) - my LGBT+ friends/family had a laugh at my message, and thanked me for the congratulatory message.

The slave term used here is not that big of a deal, IMO.
Title: Re: Slave contract?
Post by: NorthStar on August 22, 2019, 10:06:14 am
Quote
No thank you.
If someone made insensitive jokes about you, your family, ethnicity, spouse, children, etc.
You wouldn't like it. Our words are powerful.
Race jokes, rape jokes, homophobic jokes...people always say "It's just a way of speaking/a joke, lighten up" - and then people are murdered.
Because kids and other people grow up with those jokes, don't know the difference, and actually believe the nonsense.

I'm not going back and forth with yall all day on this.
But I'll always be here to call out the nonsense.
Just try to use a different analogy. It's not that hard and doesn't negatively affect you in any way.


Title: Re: Slave contract?
Post by: stoat on August 22, 2019, 10:18:19 am
Someone who has used racial slurs like 'mediocre whyte man' on here against people she hasn't agreed with is now lecturing us on offensive language.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Slave contract?
Post by: oglop on August 22, 2019, 01:04:42 pm
Slaves didn't have a contract.
No contract offered on here is as bad as slavery.
Please use a different analogy.
haha. there's always one
Title: Re: Slave contract?
Post by: SuperDoodle23 on August 22, 2019, 02:28:24 pm
OP you would be a fool if you accept this contract. The fact that they think they can tell you what to do after the contract is finished is laughable. Think of it very simply. Do you really think you will be treated fairly by an employer that does this?  You need to be spamming 40 or 50 recruiters and you should have a handful of offers at any given time. If a recruiter sends you crap like this it's probably because they are trying to unload the crappy offers onto you because they think you will take it. Hard pass and it's not even a close decision.
Title: Re: Slave contract?
Post by: kyndo on August 22, 2019, 04:53:21 pm
Slaves didn't have a contract.
No contract offered on here is as bad as slavery.
Please use a different analogy.
It's actually a pretty accurate analogy.
The term "Slave Contract" is a popular local term referring to the predatory practices of managing companies with respect to their "idols" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_contract). Often these companies put their clients deeply into debt before they ever see a penny of their share of the profits. There are hagwons out there who try their very hardest to do the same with their employees.

Slavery doesn't always involve whips, chains, and vulnerable minorities. In fact... "The most common form of modern slave trade is commonly referred to as human trafficking. In other areas, slavery (or unfree labour) continues through practices such as debt bondage, the most widespread form of slavery today." (from wiki) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery)
Title: Re: Slave contract?
Post by: StillInKorea on August 22, 2019, 11:10:36 pm
Race jokes, rape jokes, homophobic jokes...people always say "It's just a way of speaking/a joke, lighten up" - and then people are murdered.

So are you going to murder me if I make a joke about Bill Cosby getting shafted by a dude in prison?
Title: Re: Slave contract?
Post by: bb459 on August 23, 2019, 02:11:29 pm
Slaves didn't have a contract.
No contract offered on here is as bad as slavery.
Please use a different analogy.
It's actually a pretty accurate analogy.
The term "Slave Contract" is a popular local term referring to the predatory practices of managing companies with respect to their "idols" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_contract). Often these companies put their clients deeply into debt before they ever see a penny of their share of the profits. There are hagwons out there who try their very hardest to do the same with their employees.

Slavery doesn't always involve whips, chains, and vulnerable minorities. In fact... "The most common form of modern slave trade is commonly referred to as human trafficking. In other areas, slavery (or unfree labour) continues through practices such as debt bondage, the most widespread form of slavery today." (from wiki) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery)

I never said it had to involve whips and chains.
Also the sources you are quoting are written by ..........

lol nevermind
I can't even give my take because you're a moderator and I'll be put on warning and "watched" again.

Yall can have it.
Title: Re: Slave contract?
Post by: Cohort 2019 on August 24, 2019, 05:54:39 am
(https://amp.insurancejournal.com/app/uploads/2019/07/no-deal-brexit-580x386.jpg)
Title: Re: Slave contract?
Post by: kyndo on August 26, 2019, 09:23:23 am
I never said it had to involve whips and chains.
I never said that you said it had to involve whips and chains.  :smiley:

Also the sources you are quoting are written by ..........
Wiki? The Korean Times?
Not the best sources, sure, but the information in the articles doesn't seem particularly biased. I mean, here in Korea predatory contracts *are* called "slave contracts". Modern slavery *is* predominantly economic in nature. If you feel this isn't true, I'd be happy to read your arguments.

lol nevermind
I can't even give my take because you're a moderator and I'll be put on warning and "watched" again.

Y'all can have it.
  Insofar as I know, having a difference in opinion with a mod isn't against the TOS. I would never put a warning on somebody for expressing opinions opposed to mine.
Heck, I enjoy a good argument!
So please, feel free to politely and intelligently defend your arguments!  :smiley:
Title: Re: Slave contract?
Post by: hangook77 on October 15, 2019, 01:38:36 pm
Slaves didn't have a contract.
No contract offered on here is as bad as slavery.
Please use a different analogy.

It's just a way of speaking...lighten up


No thank you.
If someone made insensitive jokes about you, your family, ethnicity, spouse, children, etc.
You wouldn't like it. Our words are powerful.
Race jokes, rape jokes, homophobic jokes...people always say "It's just a way of speaking/a joke, lighten up" - and then people are murdered.
Because kids and other people grow up with those jokes, don't know the difference, and actually believe the nonsense.

I'm not going back and forth with yall all day on this.
But I'll always be here to call out the nonsense.
Just try to use a different analogy. It's not that hard and doesn't negatively affect you in any way.









If you don't want people to roll their eyes at you, then running around with fake outrage, exaggerated emotional states, and twisting people's words are probably not the best way to make friends.  No one talked about murdering anyone else on here and I suspect the moderators would ban someone fast if they did.  Learn what a joke is not spoken in malice.  Political correctness with the twisting of people's words and meanings to be used against them increasingly drives people batty and irritates people to no end. 

You know what people really meant when they joked about being a slave.  No one on here actually supports slavery and we all should know better than to run around with fake outrage.   
Title: Re: Slave contract?
Post by: hangook77 on October 15, 2019, 01:43:30 pm
A private academy I recently interviewed with just sent me their contract.
Rather than post the whole thing I just thought I would show some parts which to me seem like red flags,
are these common for hagwan jobs?

Contract sticky points:

  • The Employee agrees not to work for another institute located within 10km radius from the establishment location of the Employer even after completion of the contract, unless permitted by the Employer.

    During lunch time, and snack time, teachers will eat lunch and snack with the kids. Teachers can't eat lunch outside, because the kids are too young, so teachers will help kids during snack and lunch time.

    During the term of Agreement, the Employee will be required to accomplish the assigned duties for 30 clock hours (30 teaching hours) each week. (one month 120 hours). Teaching hours are: Monday, Wednesday, Friday 9:30AM-7:00PM; Tuesday, Thursday 9:30AM - 6:00PM.( The teacher must have adequately prepared for the classes in advance.)

    Each teaching hour in excess of 30 hours a week is considered as overtime. (1 overtime clock-hour, 18,000 won)
    In order to maintain the quality of lessons one hour of preparation time prior to classes each day is required from the Employee. This preparation time is not included in the calculation of any overtime hours, which the employee may be required to work. The Employee is required to attend in a staff meeting a week.

The contract mentioned nothing about pension. As far as I know, being held in the building during lunch break is in breach of LSA.
The 10km radius would mean not being able to work in Seoul metro area ever again after completing the contract.

I'd ignore that after.  I just wouldn't advertise it if I came back.  He couldn't enforce it anyways not in Seoul or a big city.  Maybe a small town might mean moving to another small town.

As for the contract, it could be a kindy with long days and lunch duty which should be paid as a class if you have to eat with them and take care of them.   The little kids can either drive you nuts or have you really like them for being cute as buttons.  It is a long day and you should be paid well for it.  At least 2.6 or 2.9 million won to put up with it.  If they tell you it;s 30 hours like an afternoon hakwon, you tell them the extra duties are work too and need to be paid.  Also a long day waited waiting around for classes deserve compensation.  Also make sure medical and pension are written into contract.  (I assume they are already saving money by only paying one way flight?  So, they can pay you in other ways.) 

If you are getting 2.1 to 2.4 for all this, tell them to flake off and walk.  Other jobs in Korea and China and Vietnam can be had, etc. 
Title: Re: Slave contract?
Post by: NorthStar on October 16, 2019, 08:30:49 pm
Quote
  Other jobs in Korea and China and Vietnam can be had, etc. 

Phuck China.

Vietnam...the luck is quite polarized.  BUT...if luck is in your favor (and don't take that  with a grain of salt), one can do quite well there. 

China...again, phuck China.