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All about South Korea => Life in Korea => Topic started by: SPQR on July 02, 2019, 02:45:28 pm

Title: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: SPQR on July 02, 2019, 02:45:28 pm
Ninth level civil servants, the lowest, entry level positions, usually entailing
janitorial or catering work, make 28,000,000KRW per year.

To achieve this you need to make 2.33M/month.

I think the people considering moving to China or Japan have the right idea.

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2019/07/181_271557.html
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: L I on July 02, 2019, 04:18:20 pm
The average Korean salary is 3.17 million won a month. (Well, that's as of a while ago; not sure how much it's gone up since then.) The salary of unskilled laborers from third world countries working in Korea has gone way up recently, too. I saw some jobs for 2.8 million a month plus free food and free housing.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: NorthStar on July 02, 2019, 04:28:10 pm
Ninth level civil servants, the lowest, entry level positions, usually entailing
janitorial or catering work, make 28,000,000KRW per year.

To achieve this you need to make 2.33M/month.

I think the people considering moving to China or Japan have the right idea.

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2019/07/181_271557.html

But, but...what about the free apartment in Korea?
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: L I on July 02, 2019, 04:36:24 pm
If you add that in you're probably still make less than the average Korean... or about even?... but the average Korean doesn't have a university degree. Young folks, yes... but on average, no.

The median salary for an American university grad is $65k plus benefits.

Koreans (correctly) think Western English teachers don't earn much compared to their counterparts and often refer to them as "losers back home". Not sure exactly how common that sentiment is, but I've heard it several times.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: L I on July 02, 2019, 04:37:45 pm
Teaching- that is, helping others- can feel so satisfying and fulfilling. The problem is the pay is not great. And adjusted for inflation it's declining.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: MayorHaggar on July 02, 2019, 04:57:50 pm
Ninth level civil servants, the lowest, entry level positions, usually entailing
janitorial or catering work, make 28,000,000KRW per year.

To achieve this you need to make 2.33M/month.

I think the people considering moving to China or Japan have the right idea.

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2019/07/181_271557.html

But, but...what about the free apartment in Korea?

Here's what $600 a month will get you in Cleveland, America's Worst City.

https://cleveland.craigslist.org/apa/d/cleveland-newly-renovated-efficiency/6904890982.html
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: L I on July 02, 2019, 05:07:46 pm
Career English teachers abroad might end up in Cleveland in their old age. Or Detroit. Or Compton. Low rent fees there.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: gogators! on July 03, 2019, 12:54:53 am
Career English teachers abroad might end up in Cleveland in their old age. Or Detroit. Or Compton. Low rent fees there.
More likely Thailand or the Philippines.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: Ronnie Omelettes on July 03, 2019, 07:13:22 am
Ninth level civil servants, the lowest, entry level positions, usually entailing
janitorial or catering work, make 28,000,000KRW per year.

To achieve this you need to make 2.33M/month.

What a wonky quote of yours...

Quote
Irregular employees working at schools, including cafeteria cooks and janitors, are set to stage a three-day nationwide strike this week, calling for a pay raise.

Quote
According to the alliance, the annual salary of a first-year irregular worker is 24.3 million won ($21,000), 86.7 percent of a ninth-grade civil official's 28 million won salary.

Why have you glued those sentences together to make a stupid point?  Those cooks and janitors are being paid 24.3 million a year which works out at 2 million a year over twelve months or 1.86 million if you add in the contract bonus. 

For a native teacher to make 28 million a year would be 2.15 million a month (bonus included) which they do at entry level, mostly. 

These 'you're not getting paid enough, they're taking you for suckers' 'hey, it's 2019 why are you still getting screwed?' threads are becoming insufferable.  Some of us here don't make 'money' our highest and only priority to live in Korea. 
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: Datasapien on July 03, 2019, 07:30:46 am
How much I'm getting paid isn't so important to me, it's rather how much I'm able to save. Putting away $1,000+ per month feels rather nice. I'm sure that a large part of a larger salary would just go towards funding 'lifestyle creep' on luxuries that aren't really needed anyway, and wouldn't result in a linear increase in savings. Also, another point someone made a few years back which I think rings true is that even IF we are getting paid lower than the average, I'm sure we are also putting in less than the average work hours.

I get your point though, having a higher salary would be nice, but I don't think things are quite as dire as you are making them out to seem.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: thunderlips on July 03, 2019, 07:38:15 am
Don't forget when considering the pay that is based off a 52 hour work week. Kind of adds some perspective to it. The bus drivers at my school easily work 50 hours a week not sure if they have to drive for the Sat. am programs, but they probably do.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: rhiane17 on July 03, 2019, 07:58:08 am
How much I'm getting paid isn't so important to me, it's rather how much I'm able to save. Putting away $1,000+ per month feels rather nice. I'm sure that a large part of a larger salary would just go towards funding 'lifestyle creep' on luxuries that aren't really needed anyway, and wouldn't result in a linear increase in savings. Also, another point someone made a few years back which I think rings true is that even IF we are getting paid lower than the average, I'm sure we are also putting in less than the average work hours.

I get your point though, having a higher salary would be nice, but I don't think things are quite as dire as you are making them out to seem.

I agree, we do work less hours especially in public school. Unless you are putting in overtime(which is paid) public school teachers average 4-5 lessons a day, with no admin tasks to complete. I personally teach alone, but I know alot of other epik teachers who have co-teachers who do a public of the lesson planning. If the If you take into account the amount of work we actually do (public school not hagwon)  the monthly 400,000won housing allowance, the entrance and exit flights, plus  the settlement bonus (non of which the average Korean gets from his company). It is not as dire as OP is making it out to be.

Also I happened to see the monthly pay slip of the cafeteria workers at my school, we get paid more than them but we do the same hours. They also do not get full pay during summer and winter breaks but only a small portion of their pay. I see OPs point. However, I think it is blown out of proportion.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: L I on July 03, 2019, 08:08:44 am
Don't forget when considering the pay that is based off a 52 hour work week.

Is it that long?

That's the maximum.

"South Korea officially dropped its maximum workweek to 52 hours"

"Those who make their employees work more than 52 hours weekly now face up to two years in prison or a fine of up to 20 million won"

...hmmm... maybe males work longer than females though- I read the average Korean male salary is 3.5 mil a month; for females 2.3.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: L I on July 03, 2019, 08:11:39 am
The bus drivers at my school easily work 50 hours a week.

They're driving a bus to and from the school for 50 hours a week? Seems like it would be shorter than that.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: L I on July 03, 2019, 08:22:55 am
Also I happened to see the monthly pay slip of the cafeteria workers at my school, we get paid more than them but we do the same hours. They also do not get full pay during summer and winter breaks but only a small portion of their pay.

How much was the pay? And was it their first year working?

According to the article "the annual salary of a first-year irregular worker is 24.3 million won ". (That averages out to 2.025 million a month.)
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: thunderlips on July 03, 2019, 08:28:34 am
The bus drivers at my school easily work 50 hours a week.

They're driving a bus to and from the school for 50 hours a week? Seems like it would be shorter than that.

No but they are at the school for the entire day. Start driving at 7:30, at school during the day, sometimes day trips for field trips etc, then start dropping off at 3. Their last run is leaving the school at 4:30. Still a long day regardless.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: L I on July 03, 2019, 08:35:12 am
What are they doing at school? Not exactly back breaking labor. Chilling with a cup of tea. Chatting with others. That's what i see them doing. (Not sure if they have other big tasks to do during the course of the day.) Seems like a somewhat cushy job.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: hangook77 on July 03, 2019, 08:39:20 am
Over a decade ago, the average hakwon paid 2.1 to 2.3 million a month.  The average middle class wage was around 2 million or slightly over.  (Of course that average included many lower wage workers.  If you lived in Seoul, there were a lot of folks making more than this back then.)  The average middle class wage has gone up since then, but the average hakwon wage has not. 

As for the public school, most provincial positions are ok for now.  Level 1 plus 2.7 plus multiple school allowances 150k plus 100 for living outside a city plus 400 k for rent allowance, the odd overtime assignment (though not much) and the 2 million renewal allowance.  I guess comes in around 3.4 million to 3.5 million depending on the year.  Take off 10 per cent aprox for deductions -- 3.15ish aprox?  take off 400 for rent 2.75ish average a month? 

Of course the small amount of overtime is paid periodically and the bonus is paid once a year in one lump sum.  So, monthly average would prob be closer to 2.5ish left over?  If you can get a renovated or decent condition older place, deposits are cheap and you can prob get a decent apartment in these places for a small deposit like 5 or 10 million which is why I suggested rent subsidy.  (You might even go above the 400 but prob not more than 500 k a month for rent in a decent pad.)  But being in a smaller town, city, or rural area does make it more necessary to get a car.  So that expense can subtract from that salary too. 


Anyways, decent salaries can be had.  2.1 in 2007 would be up to nearly 3.0 million a month today with inflation.  Though being in the middle of a minimum wage spike, even this may soon not be enough.  If you are married and the primary bread winner, I can guarantee what was once enough no longer is.   (Level 1 plus salary.)  Still decent for a single person. 

As I said in another post hakwons are experiencing a shortage of workers and it is a good time to demand a raise or refuse a position until you are at least paid in the upper 2.0's.  Walk away and wait a little and you will get it.  Some scumbag recruiters may have to filter you out and play mind games claiming you had better hurry to get the position.  Oldest sales trick in the book.  Pretend to be happy with it, get the contract sent you.  Rewrite the wage from 2.3 to 2.7 and send it back.  Tell the boss you will only accept a higher wage explaining that Korea is more expensive than it was in 2008.  If he is a businessman he will know what you are saying even if he's resistant.  If he wants the position empty that's his decision.  Be prepared to walk away.  Ignore the cucks and can't doers.  It's time to push the wages up for these jobs. 

We never know what we may face if we lost our jobs.  Also hakwons shooting up their wages, will put more pressure on EPIK, especially in the cities.  I had heard in Seoul level 3 is still 1.8 in principal, whereas in the provinces it starts at 2.1.  Of course they don't hire level 3s anymore.  Also, no renewal allowance in Seoul.  Paying less and taking away bonus just because they can is a d!ck move.  Plus they also have very strict deskwarming policies during the vacations.
 I hear they make you go in all day and then don't give you any heat or aircon.  I wouldn't be employed long because I'd put my foot down over that.  So more competition from the hakwons up there will definitely improve those work conditions.  I'd prob go hakwon if I were up there if I could get a decent wage negotiated.  I don't think public school in Seoul is worth it.  Plus a serious cap on wage hikes and no bonus.  Screw that.  Provincial EPIK is still decent.  But wages will have to creep up soon as the last wage hike was put in place in 2009 back when they were still desperate for people.  It was a great place to park your butt during the Great Recession when the market was flooded and wages were kept low.   

I guess it is above or other countries which I searched on Daves.  Global market for ESL seems good right now. 
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: thunderlips on July 03, 2019, 08:48:32 am
What are they doing at school? Not exactly back breaking labor. Chilling with a cup of tea. Chatting with others. That's what i see them doing. (Not sure if they have other big tasks to do during the course of the day.) Seems like a somewhat cushy job.

Yeah so is ours generally. Point being they are still at work not how much work.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: Mister Tim on July 03, 2019, 08:48:42 am
As someone whose sense of self worth is inexorably tied to the size of his paycheck, this disturbs me greatly.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: oglop on July 03, 2019, 09:29:24 am
  If you are married and the primary bread winner, I can guarantee what was once enough no longer is.   (Level 1 plus salary.)  Still decent for a single person.

if you're married (i'm guessing most here wou;d be married to a korean), then you'd have an F visa and be earning a lot more than basic hagwon salaries
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: gideonvasquez on July 03, 2019, 01:15:07 pm
The public school Korean teacher pay scale is actually a pretty interesting thing to look at and think about what they are actually making. Because they are public servants they are required to release their pay scale and bonus structure. Here is a link to the public servant pay scale for 2019 (generally the scale is adjusted up around 1.8% a year/inflation).
website (https://0muwon.com/entry/2019%EB%85%84-%EA%B5%90%EC%9C%A1%EA%B3%B5%EB%AC%B4%EC%9B%90-%EB%B4%89%EA%B8%89%ED%91%9C-%EA%B5%90%EC%9B%90%EB%B4%89%EA%B8%89%ED%91%9C-%EB%B0%8F-%EC%B4%88%EA%B3%BC%EA%B7%BC%EB%AC%B4-%EC%88%98%EB%8B%B9-%EB%93%B1-%EC%95%8C%EC%95%84%EB%B3%B4%EA%B8%B0) The first table is for teachers, second is for school employees (admin peeps), third is for teachers at national universities, and fourth is for "head teachers"?(총장/부총장) I'm not actually sure what the translation would be.
In practice, teachers begin at level 9. For each year of service they are moved up one level. This table shows their base take-home monthly pay at each level. In addition to their level's pay they can also receive overtime pay. This is shown by the last table on the page. For levels below 19 (so for those who have 10 or fewer years of service) they receive 10,872 won/hour. From 20 to 29 it is 12,076. From then on (after 21 years of service) they earn 12,964 won/hour. Then other special people (the head teachers and vice principal) get 13,850.

They receive two additional bonuses equivalent to 60% of their monthly salary twice a year. One payment is added to the nearest paycheck preceding? (maybe following) Seollal and another payment happens around Chuseok. The total combined bonus for them would be 120% of base monthly earnings annually.

In addition to mandatory bonus they can possibly receive other bonuses to pay. Some of these bonuses are for awards (best teacher award/outstanding performance), completing training programs, and accepting additional duties (sometimes the GET "handler" gets some money).

I compared my pay progression (provincial EPIK) with theirs and they begin to make more with base pay and bonuses (without special bonuses just the Seollal/Chuseok ones) at level 20 to 21. So for the first 11 or 12 years of their career I make more. Then they begin to earn more than I do.

This isn't to say that the hakwon offering 2.1 million for 30 teaching hours isn't taking the piss. But on a public school level it is still not that terrible of a deal. However, this is coming from my provincial viewpoint where we max out 200,000 won higher a month base pay. If that were the case then public school teachers would start making more after closer to 9/10 years.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: hangook77 on July 03, 2019, 01:17:33 pm
  If you are married and the primary bread winner, I can guarantee what was once enough no longer is.   (Level 1 plus salary.)  Still decent for a single person.

if you're married (i'm guessing most here wou;d be married to a korean), then you'd have an F visa and be earning a lot more than basic hagwon salaries

Did I say hakwon?  No, I said guys on a level 1 plus salary in the 3.5ish salary range beginning to struggle as the only breadwinner.  Some dudes keep their EPIK position or lower paying uni position just because.  A few married guys do go from multiple gig to multiple gig and make their 5 million a month, though they said they really have to hustle for it.  But with the cost of living, especially if the wife won't work, even that can be tough but still adequate if you don't live in Seoul.  (I mean live out in the provinces.) 

A provincial 1 plus position is still ok for a single guy.  It is slightly above what a 2.1 or 2.2 salary got you in 2006 or 2007 with inflation, exchange rates, etc factored in.    But a 2.1 million gig with one way flight (so minus 100 k a month for return flight) is actually 2.0 million times 12 equals 24 million won a year.  On paper, I guess you could say 25.2 million.  A 2.3 million on paper will put you just under this 28 million salary.  A unionized bus driver 10 years ago made 2 million a month about the same as an English teacher.  Now, that is over 3 million a month as a unionized bus driver.  Accepting a 2.1 with one way flight is for dopes.  But there are some lazy married dudes doing a uni position for that amount of money and just chilling at home in the villa when not teaching.  Maybe anything is possible? 
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: L I on July 03, 2019, 01:23:08 pm
When Korean teachers retire they get 3 million won a month for the rest of their lives.

That's quite a lot of money.

(We're talking almost a million dollars; be sure to factor that into your calculations.)
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: oglop on July 03, 2019, 01:34:14 pm
  If you are married and the primary bread winner, I can guarantee what was once enough no longer is.   (Level 1 plus salary.)  Still decent for a single person.

if you're married (i'm guessing most here wou;d be married to a korean), then you'd have an F visa and be earning a lot more than basic hagwon salaries

Did I say hakwon?  No, I said guys on a level 1 plus salary in the 3.5ish salary range beginning to struggle as the only breadwinner.  Some dudes keep their EPIK position or lower paying uni position just because.  A few married guys do go from multiple gig to multiple gig and make their 5 million a month, though they said they really have to hustle for it.  But with the cost of living, especially if the wife won't work, even that can be tough but still adequate if you don't live in Seoul.  (I mean live out in the provinces.) 

A provincial 1 plus position is still ok for a single guy.  It is slightly above what a 2.1 or 2.2 salary got you in 2006 or 2007 with inflation, exchange rates, etc factored in.    But a 2.1 million gig with one way flight (so minus 100 k a month for return flight) is actually 2.0 million times 12 equals 24 million won a year.  On paper, I guess you could say 25.2 million.  A 2.3 million on paper will put you just under this 28 million salary.  A unionized bus driver 10 years ago made 2 million a month about the same as an English teacher.  Now, that is over 3 million a month as a unionized bus driver.  Accepting a 2.1 with one way flight is for dopes.  But there are some lazy married dudes doing a uni position for that amount of money and just chilling at home in the villa when not teaching.  Maybe anything is possible? 
it's really not that difficult to make 5m+ on an F visa. not showing off, but i do that and i work fewer hours than the average EPIK teacher. of course, it helps to have the qualifications and experience

all of this really comes down to making the most of your time/skills/circumstances. if you're working at a hagwon for the 10th year in a row, it's probably your fault for not becoming better qualified and moving up the ladder. of course, if you're happy to work at a hagwon, that's great. but don't complain about it.

as i said before, hagwons are entry-level jobs, which is why they pay entry-level wages
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: hangook77 on July 03, 2019, 01:43:42 pm
The public school Korean teacher pay scale is actually a pretty interesting thing to look at and think about what they are actually making. Because they are public servants they are required to release their pay scale and bonus structure. Here is a link to the public servant pay scale for 2019 (generally the scale is adjusted up around 1.8% a year/inflation).
website (https://0muwon.com/entry/2019%EB%85%84-%EA%B5%90%EC%9C%A1%EA%B3%B5%EB%AC%B4%EC%9B%90-%EB%B4%89%EA%B8%89%ED%91%9C-%EA%B5%90%EC%9B%90%EB%B4%89%EA%B8%89%ED%91%9C-%EB%B0%8F-%EC%B4%88%EA%B3%BC%EA%B7%BC%EB%AC%B4-%EC%88%98%EB%8B%B9-%EB%93%B1-%EC%95%8C%EC%95%84%EB%B3%B4%EA%B8%B0) The first table is for teachers, second is for school employees (admin peeps), third is for teachers at national universities, and fourth is for "head teachers"?(총장/부총장) I'm not actually sure what the translation would be.
In practice, teachers begin at level 9. For each year of service they are moved up one level. This table shows their base take-home monthly pay at each level. In addition to their level's pay they can also receive overtime pay. This is shown by the last table on the page. For levels below 19 (so for those who have 10 or fewer years of service) they receive 10,872 won/hour. From 20 to 29 it is 12,076. From then on (after 21 years of service) they earn 12,964 won/hour. Then other special people (the head teachers and vice principal) get 13,850.

They receive two additional bonuses equivalent to 60% of their monthly salary twice a year. One payment is added to the nearest paycheck preceding? (maybe following) Seollal and another payment happens around Chuseok. The total combined bonus for them would be 120% of base monthly earnings annually.

In addition to mandatory bonus they can possibly receive other bonuses to pay. Some of these bonuses are for awards (best teacher award/outstanding performance), completing training programs, and accepting additional duties (sometimes the GET "handler" gets some money).

I compared my pay progression (provincial EPIK) with theirs and they begin to make more with base pay and bonuses (without special bonuses just the Seollal/Chuseok ones) at level 20 to 21. So for the first 11 or 12 years of their career I make more. Then they begin to earn more than I do.

This isn't to say that the hakwon offering 2.1 million for 30 teaching hours isn't taking the piss. But on a public school level it is still not that terrible of a deal. However, this is coming from my provincial viewpoint where we max out 200,000 won higher a month base pay. If that were the case then public school teachers would start making more after closer to 9/10 years.

As I understood it, a Korean teacher started at 1.8 million won a month and went up 100k a month per year.  When minimum wage was 880 k a month in 2009, it was a brilliant starting salary.  We started a bit higher due to housing allowance and went up a bit quicker.  Seoul (SMOE) pay scale is close to what the original pay scale was for all of EPIK.  Start at 1.8 and go to 2.0 million next year, then 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, etc?  I think.  You got a crappy run down old one room or an allowance that was slightly higher than EPIKs.  EPIK is 400k a month.  SMOE is 500K a month unless that has changed.  You get no bonus for SMOE because they are @$$holes, while getting 2 million elsewhere.  Now provincial EPIK is higher than SMOE because just before the Great Recession they were desperate for people and hiked it.  But the Recession meant they were no longer desperate and never hiked it since.  A rural 1 plus rating was a great gig during the flooded recession years. 

When I came it was 1.8 plus 100 for living in a rural province.  So I got 1.9.  I was suppose to go up to 2.0 my second year plus 100 k for rural province.  EPIK raised it to 2.1.  So, I should have gotten 2.1 plus 100k.  But I was in a very small legal city (technically a large gun and nothing there.  No emart lotte mart, no major franchises, nothing.  Boring as crap.)  So the province did sneaky things like get rid of the 100 k for legal cities.  So, I got 2.1 either way.  Also standard EPIK contract gauranteed air con and other things, but they deleted that and other things.  Guess I put up with it because they were really slack.  Extra days off, go home early, etc.  So, that was nice.  So, then I would have gone up to 2.2 the next yer with this new pay scale, but got another bump due to EPIK raising it again.  So, I went to 2.3.  (The original contract would have capped me at that amount without some extra degrees, certicates, TESOLs, etc.  Now, I could go higher as long as I stayed in the same province.)  Year 2 and 3 put me into the hakwon average at the time.  But this was 2009 and the last time EPIK raised the payscales.  (As I said, SMOE, they never touched it.)  Then as the recession was taking hold, I went to 2.5 next year and then 2 years later 2.7.  But I was getting hammered on the exchange rate at the time.  Was good when I got here and before I got here.  Went bad several months later and got worse.  So, the raises were cancelled out as I had debts and students loans.  Only when I got to 2.7 and  the exchange rate began to recover a year or two later did I finally feel like I had gotten a 'raise'. 

I am off track.  Now provincial EPIK first year is 2.1 instead of 1.9 but they won't hire you at this level anymore.  So, you start 2.2 and go up.  So start at 2.2 and take 4 years to get to 2.7.  Now it depends on whether you are in a small legal city in a rural area in a rural province and if you have multiple schools or not.  A Korean teacher will still start at 1.8 and go up 100 k a month per year.  They get 120% f their salary as a bonus total per year.  On a 3 million plus salary you get 2 million renewal allowance.  So, aprox 60% of your salary for foreign teacher. 

A provincial EPIK teacher at four year will be what a Korean teacher is at after 14 or 15 years.  But after that, they will be above us and keep climbing.  They also use to get a good pension.  Older workers get 3 million a month, younger ones will only get 1.5 million a month.  (Still more than us.)  Once they get to our level, they will still get their bonuses and be higher than us.  I spoke to an elementary teacher and confirmed this pay scale was still in place.  She said it was.  She lived in a one room villa cheaply to save money. 

So, getting 2.1 million for a hakwon in 2019 is horsecrap.  Minimum wage is 1.7 million now and will prob be more next year. 
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: hangook77 on July 03, 2019, 01:51:40 pm
  If you are married and the primary bread winner, I can guarantee what was once enough no longer is.   (Level 1 plus salary.)  Still decent for a single person.

if you're married (i'm guessing most here wou;d be married to a korean), then you'd have an F visa and be earning a lot more than basic hagwon salaries

Did I say hakwon?  No, I said guys on a level 1 plus salary in the 3.5ish salary range beginning to struggle as the only breadwinner.  Some dudes keep their EPIK position or lower paying uni position just because.  A few married guys do go from multiple gig to multiple gig and make their 5 million a month, though they said they really have to hustle for it.  But with the cost of living, especially if the wife won't work, even that can be tough but still adequate if you don't live in Seoul.  (I mean live out in the provinces.) 

A provincial 1 plus position is still ok for a single guy.  It is slightly above what a 2.1 or 2.2 salary got you in 2006 or 2007 with inflation, exchange rates, etc factored in.    But a 2.1 million gig with one way flight (so minus 100 k a month for return flight) is actually 2.0 million times 12 equals 24 million won a year.  On paper, I guess you could say 25.2 million.  A 2.3 million on paper will put you just under this 28 million salary.  A unionized bus driver 10 years ago made 2 million a month about the same as an English teacher.  Now, that is over 3 million a month as a unionized bus driver.  Accepting a 2.1 with one way flight is for dopes.  But there are some lazy married dudes doing a uni position for that amount of money and just chilling at home in the villa when not teaching.  Maybe anything is possible? 
it's really not that difficult to make 5m+ on an F visa. not showing off, but i do that and i work fewer hours than the average EPIK teacher. of course, it helps to have the qualifications and experience

all of this really comes down to making the most of your time/skills/circumstances. if you're working at a hagwon for the 10th year in a row, it's probably your fault for not becoming better qualified and moving up the ladder. of course, if you're happy to work at a hagwon, that's great. but don't complain about it.

as i said before, hagwons are entry-level jobs, which is why they pay entry-level wages

Fewer hours than an EPIK teacher if you exclude deskwarming.  But you are putting in more time going from gig to gig with blocks in between.  Out in the provinces that will go far enough.  In Seoul it prob is not as much with apartment costs.  The freelance thing does take up your whole day and vacations are tough.  Earning 3.5ish in the provinces is prob no better than getting 5 mil in Seoul (much higher rents and apartment costs).   It's not about entry level jobs, its about the fact that the wages were higher with inflation factored in.  Paying over 3 million won a month 12 years ago in today's money versus 2 million won today is bs in spite of what you claim.  They were entry level back then too?  It is ultimately supply and demand that drives wages.  The Great Recession is over and there are shortages in that industry.  So, there is no excuse for it.  If Korea doesn't smarten up and start putting up the wages, they will be in trouble, especially with the minimum wage hikes fueling inflation.  Other countries are paying.  A hakwon owner making 20 plus million won a month can afford a few hundred k a month more.  No problem.  He'll still be raking it in, especially if he has put up what he's charging a bit. 

It never ceases to astound me the apologists who make excuses for nonsense here.  A good part of the problem is the foreigners themselves.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: Ronnie Omelettes on July 03, 2019, 02:01:18 pm
It never ceases to astound me the apologists who make excuses for nonsense here.  A good part of the problem is the foreigners themselves.

What I never fail to keep in mind is what drives people to want to work, their working life and what their priorities are in life.  Your's are purely financial, obviously. 
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: #basedcowboyshirt on July 03, 2019, 02:16:41 pm
  If you are married and the primary bread winner, I can guarantee what was once enough no longer is.   (Level 1 plus salary.)  Still decent for a single person.

if you're married (i'm guessing most here wou;d be married to a korean), then you'd have an F visa and be earning a lot more than basic hagwon salaries

Did I say hakwon?  No, I said guys on a level 1 plus salary in the 3.5ish salary range beginning to struggle as the only breadwinner.  Some dudes keep their EPIK position or lower paying uni position just because.  A few married guys do go from multiple gig to multiple gig and make their 5 million a month, though they said they really have to hustle for it.  But with the cost of living, especially if the wife won't work, even that can be tough but still adequate if you don't live in Seoul.  (I mean live out in the provinces.) 

A provincial 1 plus position is still ok for a single guy.  It is slightly above what a 2.1 or 2.2 salary got you in 2006 or 2007 with inflation, exchange rates, etc factored in.    But a 2.1 million gig with one way flight (so minus 100 k a month for return flight) is actually 2.0 million times 12 equals 24 million won a year.  On paper, I guess you could say 25.2 million.  A 2.3 million on paper will put you just under this 28 million salary.  A unionized bus driver 10 years ago made 2 million a month about the same as an English teacher.  Now, that is over 3 million a month as a unionized bus driver.  Accepting a 2.1 with one way flight is for dopes.  But there are some lazy married dudes doing a uni position for that amount of money and just chilling at home in the villa when not teaching.  Maybe anything is possible? 
it's really not that difficult to make 5m+ on an F visa. not showing off, but i do that and i work fewer hours than the average EPIK teacher. of course, it helps to have the qualifications and experience

all of this really comes down to making the most of your time/skills/circumstances. if you're working at a hagwon for the 10th year in a row, it's probably your fault for not becoming better qualified and moving up the ladder. of course, if you're happy to work at a hagwon, that's great. but don't complain about it.

as i said before, hagwons are entry-level jobs, which is why they pay entry-level wages

I have an F visa and I don't make close to 5 million per month. Nobody I know that has an F visa does, either.
I wish I knew how to make more, but it seems like it's hard.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: tylerthegloob on July 03, 2019, 02:17:52 pm
It is ultimately supply and demand that drives wages.  The Great Recession is over and there are shortages in that industry.  So, there is no excuse for it.  If Korea doesn't smarten up and start putting up the wages, they will be in trouble, especially with the minimum wage hikes fueling inflation.

I'm honestly so confused. If wage changes are a result of supply and demand, doesn't that mean that either the supply has grown or demand has shrunk? Do you have any evidence to prove there are teacher shortages in the industry? If there were teacher shortages, wouldn't wages go up by necessity?
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: L I on July 03, 2019, 02:19:04 pm
Think of the story of the ant and the grasshopper. It's important to save for retirement- the last 30 years of your life. In America, it's automatic. Unseen. But in Korea, foreign English teachers are given all the money upfront. So better start saving and investing a lot. To do otherwise would be irresponsible.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: L I on July 03, 2019, 02:24:32 pm
The English teaching industry is becoming increasingly competitive. On every level. University, public school, privates, hagwons, etc. Adjusted for inflation wages are going down... and will continue to go down. The market's oversaturated. Bilingual Koreans are replacing monolingual Westerners.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: L I on July 03, 2019, 02:30:23 pm
Recruiters tell only the good aspects ... so do some posters on here. So more and more Westerners apply to come over... while the number of position openings shrink...

A balanced perspective can help slow the deterioration of wages. Exaggerating how bad things are in the West / exaggerating how good things are here and sweeping legitimate concerns under the rug will only speed the decline.

Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: hangook77 on July 03, 2019, 02:45:51 pm
It is ultimately supply and demand that drives wages.  The Great Recession is over and there are shortages in that industry.  So, there is no excuse for it.  If Korea doesn't smarten up and start putting up the wages, they will be in trouble, especially with the minimum wage hikes fueling inflation.

I'm honestly so confused. If wage changes are a result of supply and demand, doesn't that mean that either the supply has grown or demand has shrunk? Do you have any evidence to prove there are teacher shortages in the industry? If there were teacher shortages, wouldn't wages go up by necessity?

Yes, honest recruiters have admitted this and quite a few other users here have said the same thing with recruiters they know as well.  Dishonest recruiters and hakwon owners who want more in their pocket will carry on like before claiming it is not the case.  These same honest recruiters I know also told me the market was flooded a few years ago and low paying hakwon jobs were quite competitive when they were.  Teachrs have gone home, gone onto other countries, etc.  EPIK isn't a shortage yet, but that may come too in some rural areas if it keeps up.  But, so far EPIK isn't short.  We'll see what happens there as time goes on.

If EPIK was smart, they'd get ahead of the curve and hike the SMOE wages by a few hundred thousand won a month and the rest of EPIK by at least 2 to 3 hundred thousand won a month.   If they don't, they will end up with what the hakwons are now going through.  They had it good for a long time being able to be choosy due to an oversupplied market from 2009 to 2014 and a largely equal market for another two to three years after that.  Many of the hakwons haven't woken up to the new reality yet.  But will have to if they want people and mommy demands a foreign face for their kids.  Government will have to keep it going publicly and even expand it if voting parents want one in their schools.   Hit the international job section of Daves, alongside the other job sections.  You will see that other countries are on the move too.  Korea had better get with it.  Even Japan is improving their offers for many positions, by their standards.  This is compared to how badly they regressed during the Great Recession.  (Jobs offering 180 thousand to 230 thousand yen.)  Back to 250 thousand yen with many offering 270 thousand yen and partial flight coverage and reimbursement.  It means their market is on the move again.  Still not a great place to save money, but an improvement over recent years.  Even some public school contracts I posted yesterday somewhere on this site offering something decent (though only 11 months regular pay).  Better than the previous Interact postings I use to see.  Lots of places upping their game.  Korea better get on it or they will be left behind. 
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: pkjh on July 03, 2019, 02:54:33 pm
A more useful metric is the median wage (50% over, 50% under). And I believe that is still under 2 million won/month.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/166211/worldwide-median-household-income-000.aspx

Other factors to consider, when you see those national per capita numbers that includes every single man, woman, and child in the calculation. And household income calculations is usually made for anyone over the age of 15 living at home.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: L I on July 03, 2019, 03:12:46 pm
United States per capita GDP: $62,641
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: tylerthegloob on July 03, 2019, 03:14:09 pm
It is ultimately supply and demand that drives wages.  The Great Recession is over and there are shortages in that industry.  So, there is no excuse for it.  If Korea doesn't smarten up and start putting up the wages, they will be in trouble, especially with the minimum wage hikes fueling inflation.

I'm honestly so confused. If wage changes are a result of supply and demand, doesn't that mean that either the supply has grown or demand has shrunk? Do you have any evidence to prove there are teacher shortages in the industry? If there were teacher shortages, wouldn't wages go up by necessity?

Yes, honest recruiters have admitted this and quite a few other users here have said the same thing with recruiters they know as well.  Dishonest recruiters and hakwon owners who want more in their pocket will carry on like before claiming it is not the case.  These same honest recruiters I know also told me the market was flooded a few years ago and low paying hakwon jobs were quite competitive when they were.

Do you have any evidence other than "a guy told me something I wanted to hear"? And again.. if there were teacher shortages, wouldn't wages go up?
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: L I on July 03, 2019, 03:21:00 pm
There's no shortage. Except for maybe a shortage in the kind of teachers schools want, which is young hot females.

Wages in the United States are very high.

https://www.bls.gov/emp/chart-unemployment-earnings-education.htm

However, if less than one in thousands comes here (and of course there are outliers everywhere), that's enough to fill every position and more.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: oglop on July 03, 2019, 04:06:21 pm

Fewer hours than an EPIK teacher if you exclude deskwarming.  But you are putting in more time going from gig to gig with blocks in between.  Out in the provinces that will go far enough.  In Seoul it prob is not as much with apartment costs.  The freelance thing does take up your whole day and vacations are tough.  Earning 3.5ish in the provinces is prob no better than getting 5 mil in Seoul (much higher rents and apartment costs).   It's not about entry level jobs, its about the fact that the wages were higher with inflation factored in.  Paying over 3 million won a month 12 years ago in today's money versus 2 million won today is bs in spite of what you claim.  They were entry level back then too?  It is ultimately supply and demand that drives wages.  The Great Recession is over and there are shortages in that industry.  So, there is no excuse for it.  If Korea doesn't smarten up and start putting up the wages, they will be in trouble, especially with the minimum wage hikes fueling inflation.  Other countries are paying.  A hakwon owner making 20 plus million won a month can afford a few hundred k a month more.  No problem.  He'll still be raking it in, especially if he has put up what he's charging a bit. 

It never ceases to astound me the apologists who make excuses for nonsense here.  A good part of the problem is the foreigners themselves.
well, it's not like you need any qualifications or experience to get your average hagwon job. therefore, i'd claim it's entry-level.

lower wages will continue to be a thing in these types of jobs until there's less supply than demand. all you can do is create a position for yourself where there is higher demand and lesser supply, whether that's getting an F visa, getting better qualifications, more experience, etc.

and just to counter your point about getting more money in seoul vs outside of seoul: naturally, there are more opportunities in seoul than a smaller city. but that could be said for any big city in the world. i choose to live in an area of seoul that has a lot of part-time business english positions, a lot of which i can walk to/are on route to my elementary school job.


I have an F visa and I don't make close to 5 million per month. Nobody I know that has an F visa does, either.
I wish I knew how to make more, but it seems like it's hard.
morning corporate job
late morning / early afternoon job (elementary school)
evening corporate job

let's say you get 50,000won per corporate. that's 2m a month. then you can earn around 3m at after-school programs, or something similar


or places such as the British Council offer decent wages, even on an E2, as eggieguffer mentioned a while ago
the elementary school i work at takes E2 visas too, and the average monthly wage is in the mid 3m (and will be even more next year, with grade1&2 allowed to study english again). so it's possible. then again, these jobs are all in seoul, and i'm not sure where you live
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: NorthStar on July 03, 2019, 04:35:26 pm
Quote
Do you have any evidence other than "a guy told me something I wanted to hear"? And again.. if there were teacher shortages, wouldn't wages go up?

I don't recall anything fitting your description..."a guy told me something I wanted to hear".  I do recall a couple of recruiters that I know, some school directors that I have spoken with ...each telling me the same thing.  Besides, when you combine what they have said, with the act of keeping appearances, as Koreans do, it makes perfect sense that wages are kept low by peddling the false narrative of "more teachers than jobs". 

It's like the airlines adding the luggage and oil taxes during a time when it made sense but they ever let it slide...

There are numerous job posts, describing the same position, in the same location, that have been open for months in both prime and so-so locations (granted, they could be false).   

Why people feel they should defend low wages at all costs, especially expats...is beyond me.  If there is NOT a shortage of teachers, well, lets say there are simply more jobs than those applying.  And, if those jobs are false, that just adds to the flavor of the bullshit, here in Korea. 

Folks ARE going elsewhere.....
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: TexasChicken on July 03, 2019, 04:44:42 pm
I feel like thereís a lot less teachers here in cheongju at least. Honestly recruiters here are even offering 60k an hour for business english and 70k if its out of town F visa required, most hagwons are still lowballing here though. The social scene has dropped off a lot here too about half the expat dive bars have closed here and the crowd seems a lot smaller each and every year, it could be to the fact that the stagnant wages have reduced peoples spending money or there could be less teachers. Its good for me now that I have an F visa, I stay busy and this month ill clear somewhere between 7-8 million before taxes. I feel theres definitely a shortage of teachers. Ive never been this swamped with work before and it gets more intense every year.

T.C.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: MayorHaggar on July 03, 2019, 05:02:09 pm
I feel like thereís a lot less teachers here in cheongju at least. Honestly recruiters here are even offering 60k an hour for business english and 70k if its out of town F visa required, most hagwons are still lowballing here though. The social scene has dropped off a lot here too about half the expat dive bars have closed here and the crowd seems a lot smaller each and every year, it could be to the fact that the stagnant wages have reduced peoples spending money or there could be less teachers. Its good for me now that I have an F visa, I stay busy and this month ill clear somewhere between 7-8 million before taxes. I feel theres definitely a shortage of teachers. Ive never been this swamped with work before and it gets more intense every year.

T.C.

Well they fired everyone on a spring EPIK contract in Chungbuk in early 2015, and made all the Fall contract people work at like 6 schools a week to cover for all the people they fired. The foreigner bars were fun around 2014 but they'd always be full of foreigners illegally smoking and stinking up the joint.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: MayorHaggar on July 03, 2019, 05:13:25 pm
There's no shortage. Except for maybe a shortage in the kind of teachers schools want, which is young hot females.

Wages in the United States are very high.

https://www.bls.gov/emp/chart-unemployment-earnings-education.htm

However, if less than one in thousands comes here (and of course there are outliers everywhere), that's enough to fill every position and more.

You really think Americans would come to Korea knowing they could make more money back home? Hell no. Most new university grads know they'd be making like $12 an hour at best and paying $600 or so a month for the privilege of being someone's roommate. Even older and more qualified people struggle to make more than $30,000 a year, while the rent goes up and up. Everyone who comes to Korea to work has crunched the numbers, and everyone knows they'd be better off in Korea than back home. If they didn't know this, they'd go back home because Korea is a polluted, loud, annoying place with bad food.

I'll never understand why a certain segment of Waygook always go on about how wages back home are so much better. Probably bitter lifers who haven't had to look for work or an apartment back home in a decade and still think rents are at Great Recession levels. If things were better back home you'd be there instead of complaining about "beta cucks keeping muh wagez down" on Waygook. Yeah unemployment in the US is low but so are wages and apartment vacancies. And it's even worse in other countries. The UK never really emerged from the recession yet guess what, rents keep going up. Here in New Zealand wages are pitiful yet guess what, rents keep going up.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: MayorHaggar on July 03, 2019, 05:19:16 pm
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/25/south-korea-economy-shrinks-in-q1-worst-since-global-financial-crisis.html
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: NorthStar on July 03, 2019, 05:19:58 pm
Quote
You really think Americans would come to Korea knowing they could make more money back home? Hell no. Most new university grads know they'd be making like $12 an hour at best and paying $600 or so a month for the privilege of being someone's roommate. Even older and more qualified people struggle to make more than $30,000 a year, while the rent goes up and up. Everyone who comes to Korea to work has crunched the numbers, and everyone knows they'd be better off in Korea than back home. If they didn't know this, they'd go back home because Korea is a polluted, loud, annoying place with bad food.

I'll never understand why a certain segment of Waygook always go on about how wages back home are so much better. Probably bitter lifers who haven't had to look for work or an apartment back home in a decade and still think rents are at Great Recession levels. If things were better back home you'd be there instead of complaining about "beta cucks keeping muh wagez down" on Waygook. Yeah unemployment in the US is low but so are wages and apartment vacancies. And it's even worse in other countries. The UK never really emerged from the recession yet guess what, rents keep going up. Here in New Zealand wages are pitiful yet guess what, rents keep going up.


Really?  Every dumbshit newbie that comes here, has done the work on the numbers?


...you're not even in Korea?

Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: L I on July 03, 2019, 05:29:07 pm
Most new university grads know they'd be making like $12 an hour at best

That's not most. Those are the biggest losers.

Minimum wage in California - the most populous state - is $12 an hour.

Most Americans don't come to teach English in Korea. Only one in ten thousand do.

But there are so few jobs in this tiny niche industry that it seems like a lot.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: StillInKorea on July 03, 2019, 11:41:50 pm
Its good for me now that I have an F visa, I stay busy and this month ill clear somewhere between 7-8 million before taxes. I feel theres definitely a shortage of teachers. Ive never been this swamped with work before and it gets more intense every year.

T.C.

Nice. How you do you achieve that? Are you working crazy hours?
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: VanIslander on July 04, 2019, 12:51:09 am
Livin' on the beach, workin' five hours a day with weekends, holidays and vacation weeks off, lovin' what one does every minute, buying fresh food at a local market,  having boatloads of time for one's hobbies, traveling Asia twice a year, driving one's dream wheels (a jeep), wanting nothing you can't afford, and banking a few thousand dollars without trying... but still making less than so-called bottom of the barrel?

Dang, i've been having it pretty bad over the last 17 years. Why didn't someone inform me of this before? Thank you. I now realize how bad it's been. My bad.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: L I on July 04, 2019, 02:04:41 am
workin' five hours a day

Several times in past threads you mentioned "1.5 hours minimum of prep every day" so maybe workin' six and a half hours per day is more accurate (if you're still doing the prep that is).
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: gogators! on July 04, 2019, 03:29:01 am
There's no shortage. Except for maybe a shortage in the kind of teachers schools want, which is young hot females.

Wages in the United States are very high.

https://www.bls.gov/emp/chart-unemployment-earnings-education.htm

However, if less than one in thousands comes here (and of course there are outliers everywhere), that's enough to fill every position and more.

You really think Americans would come to Korea knowing they could make more money back home? Hell no. Most new university grads know they'd be making like $12 an hour at best and paying $600 or so a month for the privilege of being someone's roommate. Even older and more qualified people struggle to make more than $30,000 a year, while the rent goes up and up. Everyone who comes to Korea to work has crunched the numbers, and everyone knows they'd be better off in Korea than back home. If they didn't know this, they'd go back home because Korea is a polluted, loud, annoying place with bad food.

I'll never understand why a certain segment of Waygook always go on about how wages back home are so much better. Probably bitter lifers who haven't had to look for work or an apartment back home in a decade and still think rents are at Great Recession levels. If things were better back home you'd be there instead of complaining about "beta cucks keeping muh wagez down" on Waygook. Yeah unemployment in the US is low but so are wages and apartment vacancies. And it's even worse in other countries. The UK never really emerged from the recession yet guess what, rents keep going up. Here in New Zealand wages are pitiful yet guess what, rents keep going up.
"PayScale estimates the typical graduate with zero to five years experience makes $48,400. The National Association of Colleges and Employers (NACE) calculates that the preliminary average starting salary for graduates from the class of 2018 is about $50,004.

NACE data also indicates that college graduate starting salaries have recently seen a subtle dip. The organization estimates that the starting salaries of the class of 2018 were actually 2 percent lower than the average starting of the class of 2017 ($51,022).

Despite this statistic, there are many good reasons for college graduates to be optimistic. Wages are finally beginning to budge after years of sluggish growth and recent figures from NACE indicate that employers plan to hire 16.6 percent more members of the Class of 2019 than the previous yearís graduating class. Thatís the biggest increase among recent graduates since 2007."

Not too shabby as long as student debt isn't onerous.

There's much to be said for having a roommate when getting started in life. It sure worked out forTom Hanks.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: VanIslander on July 04, 2019, 07:39:30 am
Teach 4-8... show u
workin' five hours a day

Several times in past threads you mentioned "1.5 hours minimum of prep every day" so maybe workin' six and a half hours per day is more accurate (if you're still doing the prep that is).
Teach 4:00 to 7:50 (with dinner provided by the academy during a 15-minute break after my first class - kimbap, hotdog, burger, sandwich).

Show up to prep at 2:30.

So, 2:30-7:50 is 5 hours, 20 minutes minus 15 minutes is 5 hours, 5 minutes.

About 5 hours, in any event.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: MayorHaggar on July 04, 2019, 01:06:20 pm
Quote
You really think Americans would come to Korea knowing they could make more money back home? Hell no. Most new university grads know they'd be making like $12 an hour at best and paying $600 or so a month for the privilege of being someone's roommate. Even older and more qualified people struggle to make more than $30,000 a year, while the rent goes up and up. Everyone who comes to Korea to work has crunched the numbers, and everyone knows they'd be better off in Korea than back home. If they didn't know this, they'd go back home because Korea is a polluted, loud, annoying place with bad food.

I'll never understand why a certain segment of Waygook always go on about how wages back home are so much better. Probably bitter lifers who haven't had to look for work or an apartment back home in a decade and still think rents are at Great Recession levels. If things were better back home you'd be there instead of complaining about "beta cucks keeping muh wagez down" on Waygook. Yeah unemployment in the US is low but so are wages and apartment vacancies. And it's even worse in other countries. The UK never really emerged from the recession yet guess what, rents keep going up. Here in New Zealand wages are pitiful yet guess what, rents keep going up.


Really?  Every dumbshit newbie that comes here, has done the work on the numbers?


...you're not even in Korea?



If you could be making sooooooooooo much more money back home, why are you still in Korea? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: #basedcowboyshirt on July 04, 2019, 02:28:25 pm
I think the hardest part of finding one of these good paying corporate or after school jobs is networking and knowing someone who can get your foot in the door. It's not like there are all that many consistently reputable job listing sites here for expats. At least not that I know of.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: oglop on July 04, 2019, 03:40:24 pm
I think the hardest part of finding one of these good paying corporate or after school jobs is networking and knowing someone who can get your foot in the door. It's not like there are all that many consistently reputable job listing sites here for expats. At least not that I know of.
look on worknplay. that's pretty much where i get most of my jobs
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: NorthStar on July 04, 2019, 04:30:49 pm
Quote
You really think Americans would come to Korea knowing they could make more money back home? Hell no. Most new university grads know they'd be making like $12 an hour at best and paying $600 or so a month for the privilege of being someone's roommate. Even older and more qualified people struggle to make more than $30,000 a year, while the rent goes up and up. Everyone who comes to Korea to work has crunched the numbers, and everyone knows they'd be better off in Korea than back home. If they didn't know this, they'd go back home because Korea is a polluted, loud, annoying place with bad food.

I'll never understand why a certain segment of Waygook always go on about how wages back home are so much better. Probably bitter lifers who haven't had to look for work or an apartment back home in a decade and still think rents are at Great Recession levels. If things were better back home you'd be there instead of complaining about "beta cucks keeping muh wagez down" on Waygook. Yeah unemployment in the US is low but so are wages and apartment vacancies. And it's even worse in other countries. The UK never really emerged from the recession yet guess what, rents keep going up. Here in New Zealand wages are pitiful yet guess what, rents keep going up.


Really?  Every dumbshit newbie that comes here, has done the work on the numbers?


...you're not even in Korea?



If you could be making sooooooooooo much more money back home, why are you still in Korea? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


Dodging about, are you?

Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: #basedcowboyshirt on July 05, 2019, 07:38:13 am
I think the hardest part of finding one of these good paying corporate or after school jobs is networking and knowing someone who can get your foot in the door. It's not like there are all that many consistently reputable job listing sites here for expats. At least not that I know of.
look on worknplay. that's pretty much where i get most of my jobs

Hmm, okay. Thanks!
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: oglop on July 05, 2019, 09:23:25 am
I think the hardest part of finding one of these good paying corporate or after school jobs is networking and knowing someone who can get your foot in the door. It's not like there are all that many consistently reputable job listing sites here for expats. At least not that I know of.
look on worknplay. that's pretty much where i get most of my jobs

Hmm, okay. Thanks!
also, have a look on facebook groups, such as "part time jobs in seouth korea" etc. i'd recommend just shooting off your CV to all the recruiters you can find - the biggest ones being YBM and Carrot. then they'll send you any suitable jobs that come up. over the years i have probably met all of the recruiters that are about, and get sent new positions every day. so i can choose to be picky and only pick ones that i really want
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: #basedcowboyshirt on July 05, 2019, 11:33:54 am
I think the hardest part of finding one of these good paying corporate or after school jobs is networking and knowing someone who can get your foot in the door. It's not like there are all that many consistently reputable job listing sites here for expats. At least not that I know of.
look on worknplay. that's pretty much where i get most of my jobs

Hmm, okay. Thanks!
also, have a look on facebook groups, such as "part time jobs in seouth korea" etc. i'd recommend just shooting off your CV to all the recruiters you can find - the biggest ones being YBM and Carrot. then they'll send you any suitable jobs that come up. over the years i have probably met all of the recruiters that are about, and get sent new positions every day. so i can choose to be picky and only pick ones that i really want

But, I mean, ideally I would want to avoid temp jobs and get something long-term. I'm not sure I really understand how it works, but doesn't sorting through new positions and constantly having to adjust to new workplaces get exhausting?
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: Boilerbunch on July 05, 2019, 11:57:24 am
I'd really love to do this freelance temp juggling but it has been hard getting my foot in the door.  In fairness I don't get to korea until next month but shooting my resume and stuff to places has been pretty slow.   I'm also trying to do this stuff in the mornings to have a free day instead of late evening but it looks like I may have to just pony up to work evenings. 
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: oglop on July 05, 2019, 12:36:50 pm
I think the hardest part of finding one of these good paying corporate or after school jobs is networking and knowing someone who can get your foot in the door. It's not like there are all that many consistently reputable job listing sites here for expats. At least not that I know of.
look on worknplay. that's pretty much where i get most of my jobs

Hmm, okay. Thanks!
also, have a look on facebook groups, such as "part time jobs in seouth korea" etc. i'd recommend just shooting off your CV to all the recruiters you can find - the biggest ones being YBM and Carrot. then they'll send you any suitable jobs that come up. over the years i have probably met all of the recruiters that are about, and get sent new positions every day. so i can choose to be picky and only pick ones that i really want

But, I mean, ideally I would want to avoid temp jobs and get something long-term. I'm not sure I really understand how it works, but doesn't sorting through new positions and constantly having to adjust to new workplaces get exhausting?
well, each contract is usually 3 months long. but you can just keep working at the same place, usually (signing new contracts). you'll just go to different offices and teach for an hour. sometimes general english, sometimes business, sometimes something else (presentations, etc)
pretty easy going, students are always nice. but i prefer teaching adults anyway, so it's good for me

but, yeah, it's just part-time work. that's why i have a more "permanent" job (elementary school) in the afternoons.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: #basedcowboyshirt on July 05, 2019, 12:57:48 pm
I think the hardest part of finding one of these good paying corporate or after school jobs is networking and knowing someone who can get your foot in the door. It's not like there are all that many consistently reputable job listing sites here for expats. At least not that I know of.
look on worknplay. that's pretty much where i get most of my jobs

Hmm, okay. Thanks!
also, have a look on facebook groups, such as "part time jobs in seouth korea" etc. i'd recommend just shooting off your CV to all the recruiters you can find - the biggest ones being YBM and Carrot. then they'll send you any suitable jobs that come up. over the years i have probably met all of the recruiters that are about, and get sent new positions every day. so i can choose to be picky and only pick ones that i really want

But, I mean, ideally I would want to avoid temp jobs and get something long-term. I'm not sure I really understand how it works, but doesn't sorting through new positions and constantly having to adjust to new workplaces get exhausting?
well, each contract is usually 3 months long. but you can just keep working at the same place, usually (signing new contracts). you'll just go to different offices and teach for an hour. sometimes general english, sometimes business, sometimes something else (presentations, etc)
pretty easy going, students are always nice. but i prefer teaching adults anyway, so it's good for me

but, yeah, it's just part-time work. that's why i have a more "permanent" job (elementary school) in the afternoons.

Hmm. Interesting. I'll look into it. I'm getting extraordinarily burnt out on my current job. I hope the BasedGod hears my prayers.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: hangook77 on July 05, 2019, 02:55:28 pm
I feel like thereís a lot less teachers here in cheongju at least. Honestly recruiters here are even offering 60k an hour for business english and 70k if its out of town F visa required, most hagwons are still lowballing here though. The social scene has dropped off a lot here too about half the expat dive bars have closed here and the crowd seems a lot smaller each and every year, it could be to the fact that the stagnant wages have reduced peoples spending money or there could be less teachers. Its good for me now that I have an F visa, I stay busy and this month ill clear somewhere between 7-8 million before taxes. I feel theres definitely a shortage of teachers. Ive never been this swamped with work before and it gets more intense every year.

T.C.

Yes, several years ago, even many F visas also struggled.  I ruled out getting married and settling down.  I figured Korea wasn't worth it anymore.  I had no way of knowing whether it would recover or not and I'd have to jump ship.  I felt like those dudes who married a K chick in the 2000's decade thinking they'd roll in the dough got bait and switch.  (Obviously marrying for love whatever important too.  But women liked me back home and I had no Asian fetish.  I liked Korean women too.)

Good for you mother "F' ers (visas) that there has been a recovery.  AS far as the hakwons go, the obly thing I can think of is some kind of collectivism.  Businesses here form cartels that would be illegal back home.  So, the hakwons many of them join a group and recommended cutting the flight back and they all did it together as the recession years dragged on, cutting just because they should,  I assume some collective and stubborn effort is trying to block the wages or something.  Supply and demand dictates those wages should go up, especially if you have a year or two experience teaching.  (Those folks claiming a hakwon is for no experience will be the same who bitch when the inexperienced teacher can't teach.)

Anyways, making over 20 million won a month, the hakwon owner can spare a few hundred thousand won to raise the salary and maybe some for the Korean teacher too.  I am assuming however, they can't hold out for ever.  The biggest driver of us is if the moms want us and will take their kid elsewhere.  The hakwons will eventually have no choice and even the public schools will have to listen as most politicians pander to demands (unless your name is Donald Trump which most politicians are not).  They will eventually have to cave.  But it can be sped up if some of you would take a harder line with recruiters and hakwon owners.  (Pretend you want the job for a low wage to bypass the recruiter if they act like a block then speak to the boss or manager directly and demand the much higher salary.  Be prepared to walk away and even be unemployed for a short time.  Leave your number, they'll call.)

The ball is getting into our court for hakwons and we can demand more.  The recession in America is over.  No more flooded market.  EPIK is still a bureaucracy.  The question is will EPIK get ahead of the curve and raise the salaries soon or fall behind it and start losing teachers?  Seoul (SMOE) is already quite disgraceful for pay and benefits.  Also they are the strictest for micromanaging some very ridiculous contract rules.  If you want to live in Seoul, go hakwon, if you can negotiate a bit of a higher salary.  You can even sleep in during the morning. 

Other countries are forking over the cash. 
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: L I on July 05, 2019, 03:02:15 pm
I ruled out getting married and settling down.  I figured Korea wasn't worth it anymore.  I had no way of knowing whether it would recover or not and I'd have to jump ship.  I felt like those dudes who married a K chick in the 2000's decade thinking they'd roll in the dough got bait and switch.

Incidentally, the lower the adjusted for inflation wages go, the less likely a Korean woman will be to want to marry you.

(Seems like less and less Korean women are marrying Western English teachers these days.)
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: hangook77 on July 05, 2019, 03:16:51 pm
I ruled out getting married and settling down.  I figured Korea wasn't worth it anymore.  I had no way of knowing whether it would recover or not and I'd have to jump ship.  I felt like those dudes who married a K chick in the 2000's decade thinking they'd roll in the dough got bait and switch.

Less and less are getting married these days period.  As for foreigners, I'd say less and less are marrying that tall guy with blond hair and very average looking dude anymore.  Those days have sailed.  They will have to find another country where white equals rich.  AS for me, I may have disappointed some women by avoiding commitment.  My nearly middle 3 range is ok for now.  But I guess I still get stares of attraction from different age groups of women here.  (Thankfully younger Koreans are less status conscious like in the old days.)

Incidentally, the lower the adjusted for inflation wages go, the less likely a Korean woman will be to want to marry you.

(Seems like less and less Korean women are marrying Western English teachers these days.)
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: NorthStar on July 05, 2019, 04:29:31 pm
I ruled out getting married and settling down.  I figured Korea wasn't worth it anymore.  I had no way of knowing whether it would recover or not and I'd have to jump ship.  I felt like those dudes who married a K chick in the 2000's decade thinking they'd roll in the dough got bait and switch.

Incidentally, the lower the adjusted for inflation wages go, the less likely a Korean woman will be to want to marry you.

(Seems like less and less Korean women are marrying Western English teachers these days.)

No worries with that...I find Korean women to be quite slight, one dimensional and without much sexual appeal.

Besides, the only Western guys they go for are the ones they can push around.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: L I on July 14, 2019, 05:29:36 pm
Even older and more qualified people struggle to make more than $30,000 a year

Median for a white American male 25 years or older: $57,304

Median for a Asian American male 25 years or older: $70,148

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/wkyeng.t03.htm

$30,000 a year is way below average.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: Periwinkle on July 15, 2019, 12:45:57 pm
There's no shortage. Except for maybe a shortage in the kind of teachers schools want, which is young hot females.

Wages in the United States are very high.

https://www.bls.gov/emp/chart-unemployment-earnings-education.htm

However, if less than one in thousands comes here (and of course there are outliers everywhere), that's enough to fill every position and more.

You really think Americans would come to Korea knowing they could make more money back home? Hell no. Most new university grads know they'd be making like $12 an hour at best and paying $600 or so a month for the privilege of being someone's roommate. Even older and more qualified people struggle to make more than $30,000 a year, while the rent goes up and up. Everyone who comes to Korea to work has crunched the numbers, and everyone knows they'd be better off in Korea than back home. If they didn't know this, they'd go back home because Korea is a polluted, loud, annoying place with bad food.

I'll never understand why a certain segment of Waygook always go on about how wages back home are so much better. Probably bitter lifers who haven't had to look for work or an apartment back home in a decade and still think rents are at Great Recession levels. If things were better back home you'd be there instead of complaining about "beta cucks keeping muh wagez down" on Waygook. Yeah unemployment in the US is low but so are wages and apartment vacancies. And it's even worse in other countries. The UK never really emerged from the recession yet guess what, rents keep going up. Here in New Zealand wages are pitiful yet guess what, rents keep going up.

No truer words ever spoken. Say it again and again. Wages in the states are high but still not competitive with the cost of living.  Most people with common sense choose to reside where the standard of living is better which entails more than just how much is in a paycheck. The argument over stagnant wages in Korea is without merit.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: L I on July 15, 2019, 01:18:48 pm
What percentage of Americans are in South Korea on an E2 visa?

1 in 50,000.

That's not that many.

It's a minuscule amount.

The proportion of Koreans desperate to get into the United States is so much higher.

Why do you think that is?
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: tylerthegloob on July 15, 2019, 01:41:13 pm
What percentage of Americans are in South Korea on an E2 visa?

1 in 50,000.

that's not a percentage
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: L I on July 15, 2019, 03:02:36 pm
0.00002%
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: MayorHaggar on July 15, 2019, 04:56:34 pm
Even older and more qualified people struggle to make more than $30,000 a year

Median for a white American male 25 years or older: $57,304

Median for a Asian American male 25 years or older: $70,148

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/wkyeng.t03.htm

$30,000 a year is way below average.

Medians and averages don't matter for most people because they get skewed upwards by the rich. As I've already shown, 50% of Americans make less than $30,000 a year. The vast majority of Americans likely to be teaching English in Korea know full well that back home they'd be a lot more likely to be making $30,000 a year than $50,000+ a year. New graduates especially. Otherwise why the hell would you be in Korea, suffering through the pollution, the noise, the bad food, etc? People need to stop doing the grass is greener thing from Korea when you aren't back in the US looking for a job or an apartment.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: MayorHaggar on July 15, 2019, 05:00:46 pm
There's no shortage. Except for maybe a shortage in the kind of teachers schools want, which is young hot females.

Wages in the United States are very high.

https://www.bls.gov/emp/chart-unemployment-earnings-education.htm

However, if less than one in thousands comes here (and of course there are outliers everywhere), that's enough to fill every position and more.

You really think Americans would come to Korea knowing they could make more money back home? Hell no. Most new university grads know they'd be making like $12 an hour at best and paying $600 or so a month for the privilege of being someone's roommate. Even older and more qualified people struggle to make more than $30,000 a year, while the rent goes up and up. Everyone who comes to Korea to work has crunched the numbers, and everyone knows they'd be better off in Korea than back home. If they didn't know this, they'd go back home because Korea is a polluted, loud, annoying place with bad food.

I'll never understand why a certain segment of Waygook always go on about how wages back home are so much better. Probably bitter lifers who haven't had to look for work or an apartment back home in a decade and still think rents are at Great Recession levels. If things were better back home you'd be there instead of complaining about "beta cucks keeping muh wagez down" on Waygook. Yeah unemployment in the US is low but so are wages and apartment vacancies. And it's even worse in other countries. The UK never really emerged from the recession yet guess what, rents keep going up. Here in New Zealand wages are pitiful yet guess what, rents keep going up.

No truer words ever spoken. Say it again and again. Wages in the states are high but still not competitive with the cost of living.  Most people with common sense choose to reside where the standard of living is better which entails more than just how much is in a paycheck. The argument over stagnant wages in Korea is without merit.

I have been, but all the chuds on Waygook have this fantasy that things are way better back home, but that also everyone on an E-2 in Korea should be making 3m a month. They need to realize that globally, wages aren't keeping up with the rise in housing prices. It's the same in the US, Canada, the UK, New Zealand, and even in South Korea. Go look at rents for US cities on Craigslist, it's scary how much higher rents are than just a few years ago. Wages are not keeping up.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: L I on July 15, 2019, 05:34:14 pm
Housing prices are the result of supply and demand.

Who's buying all the houses? People whose income is going up.

Earnings are going way up worldwide. It's a fact. Just not for Western English teachers in Korea.

Minimum wage in California: $12 an hour. In San Francisco $15.59 an hour.

South Korea's minimum wage:
1988: 462.5 won
1989: 600
1990: 690
1991: 820
1992: 925
1993: 1,005
1994: 1,085
1995: 1,170
1996: 1,275
1997: 1,400
1998: 1,485
1999: 1,525
2000: 1,600
2001: 1,865
2002: 2,100
2003: 2,275
2004: 2,510
2005: 2,840
2006: 3,100
2007: 3,480
2008: 3,770
2009: 4,000
2010: 4,110
2011: 4,320
2012: 4,580
2013: 4,860
2014: 5,210
2015: 5,580
2016: 6,030
2017: 6,470
2018: 7,530
2019: 8,350

Minimum wage more than doubled in the past ten years! (Prices overall just about doubled, too.)

In South Korea, the average wage of a doctor is now above 13 million a month.

Pilots, 10 million a month.

Wages are rising for low level laborers and professionals.


Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: PatrickBateman on July 15, 2019, 06:12:40 pm
Wow..  No wonder my GF left me for a fooking car mechanic..  Heard he makes 5m a month..    English teachers are no more appealing than cash register attendants...   Welp, time embrace single forever life I guess.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: NorthStar on July 15, 2019, 09:20:39 pm
Quote
Minimum wage more than doubled in the past ten years! (Prices overall just about doubled, too.)
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: NorthStar on July 15, 2019, 09:25:08 pm
Quote
Wow..  No wonder my GF left me for a fooking car mechanic..  Heard he makes 5m a month..    English teachers are no more appealing than cash register attendants...   Welp, time embrace single forever life I guess.

..must have been true love.

Sorry to hear that, though.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: theman3285 on July 16, 2019, 11:54:53 am
Welp, time embrace single forever life I guess.
Or do what my mate does and pretend you're an engineer. The man's a visionary, spinning more plates than he knows how to handle.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: kobayashi on July 16, 2019, 06:25:39 pm
saw this interesting thread on reddit a few months back:

Quote
According to the Labor Standards Act, an employee gets one full paid day off per full week worked. So basically if you work for 40 hours, you get paid for 48 hours. There are 209 working hours in a standard month, which brings monthly minimum wage to W1,745,590. Employers must also pay contributions to things like health insurance, as well as severance pay for minimum-wage workers.

For comparison, the starting wage for EPIK in Seoul, Busan, Incheon, Daegu, and Gyeonggi-do is 1.8 million (Level 3). If you start at Level 2, the pay starts at 2.0 million. EPIK claims they don't hire anyone at Level 3 anymore, but that category does still exist. And Level 2 requires BA +TESOL/CELTA cert, or BA + teacher's license, or BA in Education/ESL/etc.

http://www.epik.go.kr/contents.do?contentsNo=49&menuNo=278

So someone with a 4-year undergraduate degree and an additional certification on top of that is making just barely above what a Korean kid with no degree could be making flipping burgers at McDonald's. Really puts things into perspective.

the Moon administration plans to increase minimum wage even further to 10,000 Won by 2020, which means from next year a minimum-wage worker will make 20,090,000 Won per month for a 40-hour work week - actually more than the starting wage for a 1st year EPIK teacher in a major metropolitan area.
https://www.reddit.com/r/korea/comments/au72zu/minimum_wage_is_now_almost_equal_to_the_epik/

Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: guppy1000 on July 16, 2019, 08:39:27 pm
Wow..  No wonder my GF left me for a fooking car mechanic..  Heard he makes 5m a month..    English teachers are no more appealing than cash register attendants...   Welp, time embrace single forever life I guess.

Possible but remember Koreans are the biggest Bull Sh*tter's on Earth... they love to exaggerate this kind of stuff.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: alexisalex on July 17, 2019, 07:25:13 am
saw this interesting thread on reddit a few months back:

Quote
According to the Labor Standards Act, an employee gets one full paid day off per full week worked. So basically if you work for 40 hours, you get paid for 48 hours. There are 209 working hours in a standard month, which brings monthly minimum wage to W1,745,590. Employers must also pay contributions to things like health insurance, as well as severance pay for minimum-wage workers.

For comparison, the starting wage for EPIK in Seoul, Busan, Incheon, Daegu, and Gyeonggi-do is 1.8 million (Level 3). If you start at Level 2, the pay starts at 2.0 million. EPIK claims they don't hire anyone at Level 3 anymore, but that category does still exist. And Level 2 requires BA +TESOL/CELTA cert, or BA + teacher's license, or BA in Education/ESL/etc.

http://www.epik.go.kr/contents.do?contentsNo=49&menuNo=278

So someone with a 4-year undergraduate degree and an additional certification on top of that is making just barely above what a Korean kid with no degree could be making flipping burgers at McDonald's. Really puts things into perspective.

the Moon administration plans to increase minimum wage even further to 10,000 Won by 2020, which means from next year a minimum-wage worker will make 20,090,000 Won per month for a 40-hour work week - actually more than the starting wage for a 1st year EPIK teacher in a major metropolitan area.
https://www.reddit.com/r/korea/comments/au72zu/minimum_wage_is_now_almost_equal_to_the_epik/



But as usual there is no mention of the free apartment we're given.  I don't know why this gets conveniently left out all the time lol.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: Mr C on July 17, 2019, 07:36:49 am
saw this interesting thread on reddit a few months back:

Quote
According to the Labor Standards Act, an employee gets one full paid day off per full week worked. So basically if you work for 40 hours, you get paid for 48 hours. There are 209 working hours in a standard month, which brings monthly minimum wage to W1,745,590. Employers must also pay contributions to things like health insurance, as well as severance pay for minimum-wage workers.

For comparison, the starting wage for EPIK in Seoul, Busan, Incheon, Daegu, and Gyeonggi-do is 1.8 million (Level 3). If you start at Level 2, the pay starts at 2.0 million. EPIK claims they don't hire anyone at Level 3 anymore, but that category does still exist. And Level 2 requires BA +TESOL/CELTA cert, or BA + teacher's license, or BA in Education/ESL/etc.

http://www.epik.go.kr/contents.do?contentsNo=49&menuNo=278

So someone with a 4-year undergraduate degree and an additional certification on top of that is making just barely above what a Korean kid with no degree could be making flipping burgers at McDonald's. Really puts things into perspective.

the Moon administration plans to increase minimum wage even further to 10,000 Won by 2020, which means from next year a minimum-wage worker will make 20,090,000 Won per month for a 40-hour work week - actually more than the starting wage for a 1st year EPIK teacher in a major metropolitan area.
https://www.reddit.com/r/korea/comments/au72zu/minimum_wage_is_now_almost_equal_to_the_epik/


Hmmm.
10,000 X 40=400,000 (week)
400,000 X 4=1,600,000 (month)
1,600,000=/=20,090,000.  Not even anywhere close.

10,000 W per hour is 20,800,000 for an entire YEAR at 40 hours for 52 weeks.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: hangook77 on July 17, 2019, 07:45:38 am
I guess this just confirms how many idiots there are over here making excuses and defending the status quo.  A lot of people not that bright. 
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: NorthStar on July 17, 2019, 08:30:16 am
Quote
I guess this just confirms how many idiots there are over here making excuses and defending the status quo.  A lot of people not that bright. 

You just have to ask yourself..."why?".
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: zola on July 17, 2019, 08:39:04 am
Quote
I guess this just confirms how many idiots there are over here making excuses and defending the status quo.  A lot of people not that bright. 

You just have to ask yourself..."why?".

A concrete concept of reality?
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: plan b on July 17, 2019, 09:56:03 am
I guess this just confirms how many idiots there are over here making excuses and defending the status quo.  A lot of people not that bright. 

You've been here for over a decade. What does that say about you? It's one thing to blame waygooks who come over for a year or two. Its quite another to blame those that have been here for 10+ years
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: plan b on July 17, 2019, 10:06:25 am

[/quote]

But as usual there is no mention of the free apartment we're given.  I don't know why this gets conveniently left out all the time lol.
[/quote]

A lot of people
saw this interesting thread on reddit a few months back:

Quote
According to the Labor Standards Act, an employee gets one full paid day off per full week worked. So basically if you work for 40 hours, you get paid for 48 hours. There are 209 working hours in a standard month, which brings monthly minimum wage to W1,745,590. Employers must also pay contributions to things like health insurance, as well as severance pay for minimum-wage workers.

For comparison, the starting wage for EPIK in Seoul, Busan, Incheon, Daegu, and Gyeonggi-do is 1.8 million (Level 3). If you start at Level 2, the pay starts at 2.0 million. EPIK claims they don't hire anyone at Level 3 anymore, but that category does still exist. And Level 2 requires BA +TESOL/CELTA cert, or BA + teacher's license, or BA in Education/ESL/etc.

http://www.epik.go.kr/contents.do?contentsNo=49&menuNo=278

So someone with a 4-year undergraduate degree and an additional certification on top of that is making just barely above what a Korean kid with no degree could be making flipping burgers at McDonald's. Really puts things into perspective.

the Moon administration plans to increase minimum wage even further to 10,000 Won by 2020, which means from next year a minimum-wage worker will make 20,090,000 Won per month for a 40-hour work week - actually more than the starting wage for a 1st year EPIK teacher in a major metropolitan area.
https://www.reddit.com/r/korea/comments/au72zu/minimum_wage_is_now_almost_equal_to_the_epik/



But as usual there is no mention of the free apartment we're given.  I don't know why this gets conveniently left out all the time lol.

A lot of foreign workers get housing, but they don't factor it into the equation of their overall compensation. A lot of expats in the private sector who are placed abroad get 100% free housing. Many pro athletes abroad also get free housing.

But no one goes around saying "I make 80 grand a year plus a free apartment". Nobody except English teachers who try to enhance the appearance of their overall compensation. Laughable.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: alexisalex on July 17, 2019, 10:57:38 am
But as usual there is no mention of the free apartment we're given.  I don't know why this gets conveniently left out all the time lol.

A lot of foreign workers get housing, but they don't factor it into the equation of their overall compensation. A lot of expats in the private sector who are placed abroad get 100% free housing. Many pro athletes abroad also get free housing.

But no one goes around saying "I make 80 grand a year plus a free apartment". Nobody except English teachers who try to enhance the appearance of their overall compensation. Laughable.

Well yes that's true but I'm arguing that our salaries are not the pittance that they're always portrayed as.  I think it's a bit sneaky to talk about 2.1 and then start calculating it against the minimum wage when in reality we also get a free apartment as part of the package.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: oglop on July 17, 2019, 11:27:20 am

A lot of foreign workers get housing, but they don't factor it into the equation of their overall compensation. A lot of expats in the private sector who are placed abroad get 100% free housing. Many pro athletes abroad also get free housing.

But no one goes around saying "I make 80 grand a year plus a free apartment". Nobody except English teachers who try to enhance the appearance of their overall compensation. Laughable.

uhh, ok. then add an extra 500,000won onto the E2 salaries that everyone is complaining about here, as most places offer an allowance instead of housing
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: plan b on July 17, 2019, 11:59:45 am

A lot of foreign workers get housing, but they don't factor it into the equation of their overall compensation. A lot of expats in the private sector who are placed abroad get 100% free housing. Many pro athletes abroad also get free housing.

But no one goes around saying "I make 80 grand a year plus a free apartment". Nobody except English teachers who try to enhance the appearance of their overall compensation. Laughable.

uhh, ok. then add an extra 500,000won onto the E2 salaries that everyone is complaining about here, as most places offer an allowance instead of housing

The school pays 300,000 for my place. You guys that get more must be living it up.

Its laughable that we try to enhance our low salaries to others.

"Uh...Dad, I'm gonna make about 2 thousand dollars a month.....buutttttttt, they also pay for my apartment....and my airfare....and I get severance pay...yeah, so its all good!"
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: zola on July 17, 2019, 12:09:07 pm

A lot of foreign workers get housing, but they don't factor it into the equation of their overall compensation. A lot of expats in the private sector who are placed abroad get 100% free housing. Many pro athletes abroad also get free housing.

But no one goes around saying "I make 80 grand a year plus a free apartment". Nobody except English teachers who try to enhance the appearance of their overall compensation. Laughable.

uhh, ok. then add an extra 500,000won onto the E2 salaries that everyone is complaining about here, as most places offer an allowance instead of housing

The school pays 300,000 for my place. You guys that get more must be living it up.

Its laughable that we try to enhance our low salaries to others.

"Uh...Dad, I'm gonna make about 2 thousand dollars a month.....buutttttttt, they also pay for my apartment....and my airfare....and I get severance pay...yeah, so its all good!"

Housing is typically the number one cost for any adult. Having that taken care of is a huge thing.
If I was back home and I was offered 2 jobs:
A) $3,000 per month
B $2,000 per month, but with free housing

I would take option B in a heartbeat. Also remembering that in Korea setting yourself up in an apartment requires either a relatively large deposit (or in the case of Jeonsae a massive deposit) that every teacher isn't going to have access to.

I'm not saying add on the cost of housing etc to your salary to make yourself feel better, but to discount the fact that a rent free apartment is part of the package, is ridiculous.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: stoat on July 17, 2019, 12:29:49 pm
Yes, it doesn't matter what income bracket you're in or what your job is either, it makes sense to  add up all the significant benefits when deciding on what job pays better. Housing is a massive benefit.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: pkjh on July 17, 2019, 01:00:08 pm
saw this interesting thread on reddit a few months back:

Quote
According to the Labor Standards Act, an employee gets one full paid day off per full week worked. So basically if you work for 40 hours, you get paid for 48 hours. There are 209 working hours in a standard month, which brings monthly minimum wage to W1,745,590. Employers must also pay contributions to things like health insurance, as well as severance pay for minimum-wage workers.

For comparison, the starting wage for EPIK in Seoul, Busan, Incheon, Daegu, and Gyeonggi-do is 1.8 million (Level 3). If you start at Level 2, the pay starts at 2.0 million. EPIK claims they don't hire anyone at Level 3 anymore, but that category does still exist. And Level 2 requires BA +TESOL/CELTA cert, or BA + teacher's license, or BA in Education/ESL/etc.

http://www.epik.go.kr/contents.do?contentsNo=49&menuNo=278

So someone with a 4-year undergraduate degree and an additional certification on top of that is making just barely above what a Korean kid with no degree could be making flipping burgers at McDonald's. Really puts things into perspective.

the Moon administration plans to increase minimum wage even further to 10,000 Won by 2020, which means from next year a minimum-wage worker will make 20,090,000 Won per month for a 40-hour work week - actually more than the starting wage for a 1st year EPIK teacher in a major metropolitan area.
https://www.reddit.com/r/korea/comments/au72zu/minimum_wage_is_now_almost_equal_to_the_epik/


Hmmm.
10,000 X 40=400,000 (week)
400,000 X 4=1,600,000 (month)
1,600,000=/=20,090,000.  Not even anywhere close.

10,000 W per hour is 20,800,000 for an entire YEAR at 40 hours for 52 weeks.

If they even get full-time hours. And most likely don't have their employer matching their pension payments. I wonder how many would be willing to trade in teaching ungrateful 10 year olds for the deep fryer in the back working 52 weeks straight...
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: MayorHaggar on July 17, 2019, 01:16:09 pm

A lot of foreign workers get housing, but they don't factor it into the equation of their overall compensation. A lot of expats in the private sector who are placed abroad get 100% free housing. Many pro athletes abroad also get free housing.

But no one goes around saying "I make 80 grand a year plus a free apartment". Nobody except English teachers who try to enhance the appearance of their overall compensation. Laughable.

uhh, ok. then add an extra 500,000won onto the E2 salaries that everyone is complaining about here, as most places offer an allowance instead of housing

The school pays 300,000 for my place. You guys that get more must be living it up.

Its laughable that we try to enhance our low salaries to others.

"Uh...Dad, I'm gonna make about 2 thousand dollars a month.....buutttttttt, they also pay for my apartment....and my airfare....and I get severance pay...yeah, so its all good!"

Dad: "Wow, when you factor in my mortgage and the fact that I haven't had a raise in 5 years, you're making more per month than me! Good job kiddo!"

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jul/17/renting-millennials-homelessness-crisis-retire
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: L I on July 17, 2019, 01:24:26 pm
630,000 out of 67 million is less than 1%.  I feel bad for that 1%, sure, but it's hardly the norm. 

Also, there are 4.35 weeks in a month.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: Mr C on July 17, 2019, 02:44:21 pm
630,000 out of 67 million is less than 1%.  I feel bad for that 1%, sure, but it's hardly the norm. 

Also, there are 4.35 weeks in a month.
True, but in a typical month (2/3 of them), you receive 4 weekly paychecks. 

And there are still 52 weeks in a year.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: Mr C on July 17, 2019, 02:48:34 pm

A lot of foreign workers get housing, but they don't factor it into the equation of their overall compensation. A lot of expats in the private sector who are placed abroad get 100% free housing. Many pro athletes abroad also get free housing.

But no one goes around saying "I make 80 grand a year plus a free apartment". Nobody except English teachers who try to enhance the appearance of their overall compensation. Laughable.

uhh, ok. then add an extra 500,000won onto the E2 salaries that everyone is complaining about here, as most places offer an allowance instead of housing

The school pays 300,000 for my place. You guys that get more must be living it up.
My apartment rental is 700,000W .  It's just a one room, but has a nice view, 10 minute walk to school, and is in a good area w/ subway station in the basement.

Not living it up, per se, but I can't complain about it.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: oglop on July 17, 2019, 03:44:25 pm

The school pays 300,000 for my place. You guys that get more must be living it up.

Its laughable that we try to enhance our low salaries to others.

"Uh...Dad, I'm gonna make about 2 thousand dollars a month.....buutttttttt, they also pay for my apartment....and my airfare....and I get severance pay...yeah, so its all good!"
eh. facts are facts. not to include all benefits, etc would be disingenuous

Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: L I on July 17, 2019, 04:40:50 pm
True, but in a typical month (2/3 of them), you receive 4 weekly paychecks.

We're paid once a month on a fixed date.

From now on, multiply by 4.35 when converting weekly to monthly income.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: gogators! on July 18, 2019, 03:32:17 am
My guess is that most minimum wag workers are living at home. So should you include free rent, utilities and meals in their compensation?

Just askin'.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: L I on July 18, 2019, 05:15:52 am
Most minimum wage workers are kids under the age of 18.

US Average Hourly Earnings: $27.90.

https://ycharts.com/indicators/average_hourly_earnings

Add in the benefits package (which is money paid into pension, etc.) and it's about $40 an hour.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: oglop on July 18, 2019, 07:58:12 am
My guess is that most minimum wag workers are living at home. So should you include free rent, utilities and meals in their compensation?

Just askin'.
are people in this thread being purposely obtuse?

job -> offers you a wage and nothing else -> add everything together -> that's how much you make

job -> offers you a wage and a free apartment -> add everything together -> that's how much you make
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: CO2 on July 18, 2019, 08:40:55 am
My guess is that most minimum wag workers are living at home. So should you include free rent, utilities and meals in their compensation?

Just askin'.
are people in this thread being purposely obtuse?

job -> offers you a wage and nothing else -> add everything together -> that's how much you make

job -> offers you a wage and a free apartment -> add everything together -> that's how much you make

Not having to live with my mom and dad?

PRICELESS
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: stoat on July 18, 2019, 08:41:18 am
Here's another job with a crap salary but at least you get free accommodation.  :smiley:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1154539/queen-news-queen-chef-buckingham-palace-advert-royal-news
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: L I on July 23, 2019, 06:59:36 am
Welp, time embrace single forever life I guess.

Or do what my mate does and pretend you're an engineer.

That's bad advice.

The woman will find out eventually what your real job is.

Resulting in being branded as a liar.

Which also damages the reputation of English teachers as a whole.

Seems like a Korea Times story in the making. 
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: L I on July 23, 2019, 07:28:32 am
Even older and more qualified people struggle to make more than $30,000 a year

Median for a white American male 25 years or older: $57,304

Median for a Asian American male 25 years or older: $70,148

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/wkyeng.t03.htm

$30,000 a year is way below average.

Medians and averages don't matter for most people because they get skewed upwards by the rich. As I've already shown, 50% of Americans make less than $30,000 a year.

A median is half above and half below. Median American income - the halfway point- is well above 30k, especially for males. Men are expected to be the breadwinners. Women don't have to work if they don't want to (or can work less hours... or work a lower paying job that is their passion), as long as they are with a well paid man (which it why you are seeing per person averages / medians lower than what is expected for a successful man). I've seen it in the USA and I've seen it in Korea. But I've never come across a situation where the man didn't feel like working and the woman made all the money. That just wouldn't fly. She would leave him.

English teaching in a hagwon or as a teaching assistant is considered by Koreans to be a woman's job. Why? Because it's low paid.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: LowJ on July 23, 2019, 12:24:13 pm
In Korea you recieve:

2.1M a month pay
Free housing (or an additional 400,000 a month)
105,000 a month towards pension
2.1M per year completion bonus (paid when you leave the country)
2M resigning bonus (if you stay another year)
Cheap health insurance that has awesome coverage
2 free flights (2.6M)
Americans don't pay taxes for 2 years
A raise every year.

In America:

The median hourly wage in the US is about $16 an hour
Most Americans spend 37% of their take home pay on housing.
Health insurance is expensive. At least for me I was spending twice as much a month on health insurance, and it hardly covered anything until I'd spent $5,000.
Only 58% of fulltime American workers are even eligable for retirment (and only 49% of Americans sign up for this benefit, probabley because it is normally matching and low wage workers can't afford the extra money taken out of their paycheck.)
https://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/planning-to-retire/articles/2016-01-15/10-states-where-most-people-dont-get-retirement-benefits

I'm confused how many people are saying the pay is terrible in Korea. In the US I got maybe a $50 a month raise each year, but my housing would always jump up $100 a month each year (You could only sign for a year contract, and there weren't very good renter protections, so I was actually pretty lucky). When I went to the hospital in Korea, I got an x-ray and a prescription it cost me about $16. With insurance in the US it would have cost me at least $300.

I mean, if you have an awesome job with great benefits, then it might be a loss for you to come to Korea, but for most of us we have a way better comfort of living here. I'm also being able to put about 1M a month into savings with no sacrifices, and in the US I was living rough to put $200 aside a month.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: gogators! on July 23, 2019, 07:12:10 pm
Most minimum wage workers are kids under the age of 18.

US Average Hourly Earnings: $27.90.

https://ycharts.com/indicators/average_hourly_earnings

Add in the benefits package (which is money paid into pension, etc.) and it's about $40 an hour.
About half earning the minimum wage are under the age of 25. So a little more than half are adults.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: L I on July 23, 2019, 07:46:36 pm
What does minimum wage have to do with any of this? It's only a tiny percentage of workers. (And of those, a sizable portion are pocketing a big amount of cash tips off the books in their waitressing / bartending job.)

Quote
"The percentage of hourly paid workers earning the prevailing federal minimum wage or less declined from 2.7 percent in 2016 to 2.3 percent in 2017."

https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2017/home.htm

Quote
"Among employed teenagers (ages 16 to 19) paid by the hour, about 8 percent earned the minimum wage or less, compared with about 1 percent of workers age 25 and older."
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: hangook77 on July 24, 2019, 08:40:43 am
My guess is that most minimum wag workers are living at home. So should you include free rent, utilities and meals in their compensation?

Just askin'.

Good to see Gogators and I are in agreement.

As for someone else mentioning being here for a decade or more, I am in the low to mid 3.0's when bonuses and housing is included.  Now as for 2.1 and a dumpy old tiny one room in Seoul, is that the life?  I have seen quiet a few ads offering  2000 US dollars in other Asian countries with a much cheaper cost of living.  Vietnam, Indonesia, etc.  Lots of money to be saved which is why most come to do esl.  Pay off student loans and save up money.  Kind of hard to do in Korea nowadays.  I already did the math a couple of pages back.  My salary now in inflationary terms is only slightly more than someone in 2006 and 2007 would have been earning at 2.1. 

The truth is if many of us lost our jobs and had to jump quickly to a job and stayed here it would be one of these crapwons.  Perhaps we could look and find another gig eventually.  I guess in my case, I'd country hop so that I could save more money.  It's too bad people don't push back and demand a higher wage in the hakwon industry rather than take that lowball offer.  Low self esteem I guess.  The fact so many are arguing and getting defensive shows how defensive people are.  The truth is during the recession years we couldn't do much about declining conditions, but it's not like that anymore.  The market isn't flooded now. 

Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: tylerthegloob on July 24, 2019, 10:10:32 am

The fact so many are arguing and getting defensive shows how defensive people are.


this is top tier reasoning. also, you're the one getting the most defensive calling people low self-esteem cucks and shit
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: oglop on July 24, 2019, 10:38:27 am


As for someone else mentioning being here for a decade or more, I am in the low to mid 3.0's when bonuses and housing is included.  Now as for 2.1 and a dumpy old tiny one room in Seoul, is that the life? 
sigh. well, i've been here less than a decade and make over 5.2m when bonuses and housing is included. i am not showing off. i am saying if you're not happy with your current salary/life, do something about it, instead of whining, complaining it's not fair, and making up conspiracies
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: stoat on July 24, 2019, 01:34:33 pm
Quote
Adults are unreliable.  Good to do for extra income but not your main source of income.  Revenue can go up and down.  Some will bitch and get picky about minor things.  Stick with kids.  At least if they like you, they'll want to come back and meet you again and again.  Especially young kids.  If you don't like kids, get out of esl and find a new profession.  I like kids most of the time, so it works for me.

This could be one of the reasons why your income isn't increasing much.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: gogators! on July 24, 2019, 06:40:11 pm
What does minimum wage have to do with any of this? It's only a tiny percentage of workers. (And of those, a sizable portion are pocketing a big amount of cash tips off the books in their waitressing / bartending job.)

Quote
"The percentage of hourly paid workers earning the prevailing federal minimum wage or less declined from 2.7 percent in 2016 to 2.3 percent in 2017."

https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2017/home.htm

Quote
"Among employed teenagers (ages 16 to 19) paid by the hour, about 8 percent earned the minimum wage or less, compared with about 1 percent of workers age 25 and older."
My post was pointing out that it's no longer, if it ever was , true that it's mostly younger workers getting minimum wage in the US. Go into many fast food or chain restaurants, a grocery store or the like and you'll often see quite a few older workers.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: L I on July 24, 2019, 06:49:56 pm
Those workers are either managers or people who made bad decisions in life. Or not very bright. (In which case it's not their fault.)

But the fact remains that the percentage of youngsters making low wages is much higher than the percentage of oldsters doing the same.

I guess it looks a bit different because there are just more older people around period because of the long falling birthrate.

Nevertheless, most people over 25 don't make low wages. Especially males. If they do, women won't be beating down their door to date them.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: JNM on July 24, 2019, 09:39:22 pm
Those workers are either managers or people who made bad decisions in life. Or not very bright. (In which case it's not their fault.)

But the fact remains that the percentage of youngsters making low wages is much higher than the percentage of oldsters doing the same.

I guess it looks a bit different because there are just more older people around period because of the long falling birthrate.

Nevertheless, most people over 25 don't make low wages. Especially males. If they do, women won't be beating down their door to date them.

Some people in the US also take low paying jobs for the health insurance benefits. They may be retired or entrepreneurs doing the Walmart gig to provide insurance.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: L I on July 24, 2019, 09:53:06 pm
Those who worked professional jobs get health insurance for themselves and their spouse, which continues for the rest of their life.

Entrepreneurs who made decent money can buy their own health insurance plan. They don't have to work a low wage job to get it.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: gogators! on July 25, 2019, 12:44:14 am
Those workers are either managers or people who made bad decisions in life. Or not very bright. (In which case it's not their fault.)

But the fact remains that the percentage of youngsters making low wages is much higher than the percentage of oldsters doing the same.

I guess it looks a bit different because there are just more older people around period because of the long falling birthrate.

Nevertheless, most people over 25 don't make low wages. Especially males. If they do, women won't be beating down their door to date them.

Some people in the US also take low paying jobs for the health insurance benefits. They may be retired or entrepreneurs doing the Walmart gig to provide insurance.
It's hard to get benefits working part-time for a place like Walmart. Lowe's or Costco are possibilities. I doubt you'd find many older employees at Starbucks or Whole Foods, especially now that it's owned by Amazon and cutting employee hours.
Title: Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
Post by: gogators! on July 25, 2019, 12:48:02 am
Those who worked professional jobs get health insurance for themselves and their spouse, which continues for the rest of their life.

Entrepreneurs who made decent money can buy their own health insurance plan. They don't have to work a low wage job to get it.
That depends greatly on the company:
Quote
n 2018, 18% of large firms that offer health benefits to their workers offer retiree coverage, a significantly lower percentage than in recent years [Figure 11.1].
Retiree health benefits offer rates vary considerably by firm characteristics.
Among large firms offering health benefits, the likelihood that a firm will offer retiree health benefits increases with firm size [Figure 11.2].
The share of large firms offering retiree health benefits varies considerably by industry [Figure 11.2].
Despite the lower percentage of public firms reporting that they offer retiree health benefits, among large firms offering health benefits, the share of public firms offering retiree benefits (49%) is higher than the shares of private for-profit firms (10%) or private not-for-profit firms (21%) offering retiree benefits [Figure 11.3].
Large firms with at least some union workers are more likely to offer retiree health benefits than large firms without any union workers (29% vs. 14%) [Figure 11.3].